Republicans and Right Wing Pundits Smearing Khashoggi to Defend Trump

Politics • Views: 41,915

This kind of ugliness used to be limited to the fringiest fringe right wing bloggers, but in the Trump era even members of Congress are joining in the hate: Conservatives mount a whisper campaign smearing Khashoggi in defense of Trump.

Hard-line Republicans and conservative commentators are mounting a whispering campaign against that is designed to protect President Trump from criticism of his handling of the dissident journalist’s alleged murder by operatives of Saudi Arabia — and support Trump’s continued aversion to a forceful response to the oil-rich desert kingdom.

In recent days, a cadre of conservative House Republicans allied with Trump has been privately exchanging articles from right-wing outlets that fuel suspicion of Khashoggi, highlighting his association with the Muslim Brotherhood in his youth and raising conspiratorial questions about his work decades ago as an embedded reporter covering Osama bin Laden, according to four GOP officials involved in the discussions who were not authorized to speak publicly.

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274 comments
1
HappyWarrior  Oct 19, 2018 • 12:52:37pm

This is why we’re in trouble even if Trump goes.

2
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 19, 2018 • 12:56:08pm

Make America Hate Again.

3
goddamnedfrank  Oct 19, 2018 • 12:57:00pm
4
HappyWarrior  Oct 19, 2018 • 12:57:15pm

Remember when Obama was hated for bowing. Meanwhile here’s Trump helping them cover up a murder.

5
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 12:57:58pm

re: #1 HappyWarrior

This is why we’re in trouble even if Trump goes.

Moving forward, Americans need to be aware that 1/3 of us are fascists waiting for a monster to lead them, and the other 2/3 need to contain the monsters. They can live in our society, but they have to learn to not spew hate in public, and they do not ever get to be in charge, because they create hell on earth if they have power.

6
HappyWarrior  Oct 19, 2018 • 12:58:06pm

re: #3 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

Yep. I knew this would happen. Give people a license to discriminate under the guise of religious freedom and this happens.

7
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 19, 2018 • 12:58:32pm

re: #3 goddamnedfrank

The things we choose to waste our time and money on. Wouldn’t it be easier if we could just get along?

8
HappyWarrior  Oct 19, 2018 • 12:59:15pm

re: #7 Eclectic Cyborg

The things we choose to waste our time and money on. Wouldn’t it be easier if we could just get along?

We mostly do except for the dipshits on the religious right.

9
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:00:47pm

Imagine the reaction if bin Laden had been given the same treatment as Khashoggi and Obama had shrugged it off. The GOPers would have voted to impeach him the same day.

10
Kilroy was here  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:01:27pm

Party of personal responsibility

Scalise: Trump was ‘clearly ribbing’ Gianforte with remarks on body-slamming reporter
thehill.com

11
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:01:27pm

Trump and his cronies are trying to keep all of us at each others throats so we won’t join forces against them.

12
HappyWarrior  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:01:57pm

re: #10 Kilroy was here

Party of personal responsibility

Scalise: Trump was ‘clearly ribbing’ Gianforte with remarks on body-slamming reporter
thehill.com

Yeah right. Go away David Duke lover boy.

13
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:02:05pm

re: #10 Kilroy was here

Party of personal responsibility

Scalise: Trump was ‘clearly ribbing’ Gianforte with remarks on body-slamming reporter
thehill.com

It was a joke!

14
KGxvi  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:02:28pm

re: #3 goddamnedfrank

I can understand a private organization making this very, very wrong argument. But a state government making it is frustrating beyond belief.

15
goddamnedfrank  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:02:37pm

re: #3 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

I don’t know how they can say private businesses have a religious right not to associate with gays but don’t have the same right when it comes to associating with Jews. The corner that the Trump administration has painted themselves into gets stickier when you realize they can’t carve out a civil rights exception for religion as a class and then argue that Muslims, Satanists and other non favored religions shouldn’t be included.

16
HappyWarrior  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:02:54pm

He’s a straight shooter who tells it as is until it’s a joke that makes us look bad.

17
HappyWarrior  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:03:30pm

re: #14 KGxvi

I can understand a private organization making this very, very wrong argument. But a state government making it is frustrating beyond belief.

It’s backwards as hell.

18
KGxvi  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:07:06pm

re: #15 goddamnedfrank

I don’t know how they can say private businesses have a religious right not to associate with gays but don’t have the same right when it comes to associating with Jews. The corner that the Trump administration has painted themselves into gets stickier when you realize they can’t carve out a civil rights exception for religion as a class and then argue that Muslims, Satanists and other non favored religions shouldn’t be included.

You can draw a distinction between the flower/cake shop and adoption by pointing out that adoptions require direct state action in the form of family law court proceedings. So in the earlier cases we were dealing with a wholly private transaction, whereas in the case of adoptions we are dealing with private organizations that are effectively engaged in public actions

19
Rocky-in-Connecticut  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:07:18pm

Evil people act accordingly.

20
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:07:33pm
21
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:09:01pm

re: #3 goddamnedfrank

Inherent in this ‘faith based foster care’ lawsuit is the belief that no one should be allowed to brainwash young children except for them. Finding families for the children is an afterthought.

22
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:09:35pm

re: #21 jaunte

Inherent in this ‘faith based foster care’ lawsuit is the belief that no one should be allowed to brainwash young children except for them. Finding families for the children is an afterthought.

Wouldn’t want a sane society. Gotta raise them to be bigoted.

23
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:18:50pm

Completely done with Jeff Flake’s concern act.

24
KGxvi  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:19:44pm

re: #23 jaunte

Senator Concern Troll is very concerned, but will still vote with Trump until his term expires in January.

25
ObserverArt  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:22:39pm

re: #24 KGxvi

Senator Concern Troll is very concerned, but will still vote with Trump until his term expires in January.

Does Flake have any feel for what he has done to his own name and how much a joke he has become to so many Americans?

I’ve never quite seen anyone ruin their own reputation in this manner. Dude has gotten weird and doesn’t seem to be self-aware.

26
KGxvi  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:22:53pm

re: #21 jaunte

Inherent in this ‘faith based foster care’ lawsuit is the belief that no one should be allowed to brainwash young children except for them. Finding families for the children is an afterthought.

Again, I could see the agency making this argument in a “best interests of the child” sort of way. But I think it’s becoming harder and harder to make the argument that a religious upbringing (let alone a particular religious upbringing) is naturally in the best interests of the child. But for the state to make that argument is to ignore not only the child’s right to religious freedom but also that of otherwise qualified potential parents, and the state should have an obligation to protect the rights of the child and the potential parents.

27
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:23:00pm

re: #23 jaunte

Flake is one of those people who shouldn’t receive any more attention.

28
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:23:08pm
29
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:23:29pm
30
goddamnedfrank  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:23:48pm

re: #18 KGxvi

You can draw a distinction between the flower/cake shop and adoption by pointing out that adoptions require direct state action in the form of family law court proceedings. So in the earlier cases we were dealing with a wholly private transaction, whereas in the case of adoptions we are dealing with private organizations that are effectively engaged in public actions

True but bakeries, shops and adoption agencies are all specifically and individually defined as places of public accommodation in the US Code. So the Administration can’t argue that Congress meant to draw a meaningful distinction between them. They can fall back on the fact that sexual orientation still isn’t protected under federal law, but the SCOTUS cases all operate around State and local law definitions that do cover it, so that seems like a dead end.

31
TedStriker  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:25:14pm

re: #25 ObserverArt

Does Flake have any feel for what he has done to his own name and how much a joke he has become to so many Americans?

I’ve never quite seen anyone ruin their own reputation in this manner. Dude has gotten weird and doesn’t seem to be self-aware.

I’m sure he’s got enough money and lives far away enough from the hoi polloi that he just doesn’t give a fuck.

32
Anymouse 🌹  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:25:34pm

From the last thread:

re: #499 Unshaken Defiance

I guess if I was here when she was, we would have not gotten along very well.

As I noted in the last thread at the end, yay, our ballots arrived in the mail today. Now we get to vote with extreme prejudice.

33
KGxvi  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:30:56pm

re: #25 ObserverArt

Does Flake have any feel for what he has done to his own name and how much a joke he has become to so many Americans?

I’ve never quite seen anyone ruin their own reputation in this manner. Dude has gotten weird and does seem to be self-aware.

I really don’t know what his thinking is. My best guess is that he’s planning to challenge Trump in 2020 if Trump remains historically unpopular (I’m okay with this because in modern times no incumbent president who has seen a primary challenge has won re-election). If that’s the case, he probably feels like he has to vote with the GOP in order to maintain some sort of good standing within the party, in order to have any chance of winning delegates in 2020.

The problem is, anyone outside whatever base he imagines he has (maybe NeverTrumpers and the Trumpcurious) is going to see all the stuff he’s done as grandstanding and posturing for cameras.

34
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:31:46pm

re: #25 ObserverArt

Does Flake have any feel for what he has done to his own name and how much a joke he has become to so many Americans?

I’ve never quite seen anyone ruin their own reputation in this manner. Dude has gotten weird and doesn’t seem to be self-aware.

He’s trying to please both sides and failing spectacularly.

35
Anymouse 🌹  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:32:29pm

re: #18 KGxvi

You can draw a distinction between the flower/cake shop and adoption by pointing out that adoptions require direct state action in the form of family law court proceedings. So in the earlier cases we were dealing with a wholly private transaction, whereas in the case of adoptions we are dealing with private organizations that are effectively engaged in public actions

And when a Christian cake shop says it doesn’t want to serve Jews (or in the case of Evangelicals or Mormons, blacks)? Those are also private transactions.

The point is to weaken the Civil Rights Act and public accommodation laws to the point where they are rendered meaningless - a goal of conservatives and libertarians.

36
ObserverArt  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:32:42pm

re: #31 TedStriker

I’m sure he’s got enough money and lives far away enough from the hoi polloi that he just doesn’t give a fuck.

So, no further career then. No run for president. No big lobbyist job.

Who’d want him after this?

You may right. This may be the last we see of him. What a way to go out.

37
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:33:37pm
38
KGxvi  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:34:02pm

re: #30 goddamnedfrank

True but bakeries, shops and adoption agencies are all specifically and individually defined as places of public accommodation in the US Code. So the Administration can’t argue that Congress meant to draw a meaningful distinction between them. They can fall back on the fact that sexual orientation still isn’t protected under federal law, but the SCOTUS cases all operate around State and local law definitions that do cover it, so that seems like a dead end.

They can also argue that that definition of public accommodations only applies to the Americans with Disabilities Act and not to the Civil Rights Act. Which reminds me, the Civil Rights Act should definitely be updated to expand its very limited public accommodation definition.

39
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:35:23pm

I received a hand-written postcard from a local Democrat in the mail yesterday, urging me to vote, and to urge others to vote. I didn’t need the reminder, but it’s great that people are doing that.

40
KGxvi  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:36:00pm

re: #35 Anymouse 🌹

And when a Christian cake shop says it doesn’t want to serve Jews (or in the case of Evangelicals or Mormons, blacks)? Those are also private transactions.

The point is to weaken the Civil Rights Act and public accommodation laws to the point where they are rendered meaningless - a goal of conservatives and libertarians.

See my comment at #38 KGxvi, I definitely believe we need to expand the definition of public accommodation under the CRA. By no means do I think it’s a valid or good argument. I was simply pointing out a distinction that could be made based on existing case law.

41
Joe Bacon 🌹  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:37:54pm

re: #6 HappyWarrior

Yep. I knew this would happen. Give people a license to discriminate under the guise of religious freedom and this happens.

South Carolina wants to discriminate against Jews. Well I wonder what Catholics and Mormons will do when South Carolina goes after them, too?

42
KGxvi  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:38:16pm

re: #39 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

I received a hand-written postcard from a local Democrat in the mail yesterday, urging me to vote, and to urge others to vote. I didn’t need the reminder, but it’s great that people are doing that.

The mayor here in Long Beach has been posting stuff like crazy on instagram reminding people to vote. He’s my age (40ish), and I’m fairly sure we had some classes together back in the day at Long Beach State. Not quite as personal as a hand-written postcard, but generationally probably the samething.

43
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:38:55pm

Amazing how they can love Jesus but hate Jews at the same time.

///

44
Charles Johnson  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:39:10pm
45
wrenchwench  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:40:31pm

re: #36 ObserverArt

So, no further career then. No run for president. No big lobbyist job.

Who’d want him after this?

You may right. This may be the last we see of him. What a way to go out.

He’s going home to Arizona. He’ll fit right in, if he stays off the reservations. (See ‘Arpaio’, running for office…)

[Sorry, Jordan. Come back! We need you!]

46
I Would Prefer Not To  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:43:04pm

Today’s PSA

47
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:43:21pm

BTW, as I wrote the other day America is now lotto-crazy…

So the MegaMillions jackpot, originally estimate at $868M for tonight, now has skyrocketed to $1B:

megamillions.com

Now, now we’re talking real money.

48
Anymouse 🌹  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:43:33pm

re: #6 HappyWarrior

Yep. I knew this would happen. Give people a license to discriminate under the guise of religious freedom and this happens.

A few people are asserting the Council for National Policy is pushing the South Carolina request to Health and Human Services (which has been stuffed with Christian fundamentalists).

This benevolent group has been profiled by the Southern Poverty Law Center:

splcenter.org

49
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:44:28pm

You know those lottery forms you fill in for a ticket? You can buy 10 tickets on those.

Why buy one when you can buy ten????

50
KGxvi  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:48:08pm

re: #47 freetoken

BTW, as I wrote the other day America is now lotto-crazy…

So the MegaMillions jackpot, originally estimate at $848M for tonight, now has skyrocketed to $1B:

megamillions.com

Now, now we’re talking real money.

Something like $565.6 million if you take the cash option. Less taxes (two thoughts: California at least doesn’t collect income tax on lottery winnings; and might need to look into incorporating before cashing the ticket, in order to pay corporate rates as a pass through).

51
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:48:44pm

The MegaMillions jackpot went from $548M to $1B in just seven days.

If no one wins tonight, given all this frenzy, the next jackpot will be crazy big.

I do think there will be a winner tonight, because with so many tickets sold.

52
Anymouse 🌹  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:49:14pm

re: #38 KGxvi

They can also argue that that definition of public accommodations only applies to the Americans with Disabilities Act and not to the Civil Rights Act. Which reminds me, the Civil Rights Act should definitely be updated to expand its very limited public accommodation definition.

Conservatives also want to repeal the ADA. You might also remember the elderly and handicapped Robert Dole sitting in the Senate while one conservative after another voted against UN protections for the disabled.

You can’t get your eugenics on if disabled people are protected.

When our public library here moved to its new location, it was a long slog for me to fight the library board here over planning in the library, as they did not wish to consider epilepsy in their planning. It was literally a fight over $15 worth of screws for bookshelves, even when I said I would pay for the screws and install them myself.

53
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:50:02pm

re: #50 KGxvi

Correct, no state taxes on lottery wins here in California.

Regarding incorporating - not sure that will help with the IRS. They take their cut right off the top, and there may even be IRS rules specially covering what you are proposing.

54
Anymouse 🌹  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:52:31pm

re: #50 KGxvi

Something like $565.6 million if you take the cash option. Less taxes (two thoughts: California at least doesn’t collect income tax on lottery winnings; and might need to look into incorporating before cashing the ticket, in order to pay corporate rates as a pass through).

As I said in my voter guide questionnaire out in today’s county paper (on the issue of raising taxes): Taxes are the price of civilisation.

When I win the prize (I’m really sorry you won’t - :) I’m not going to worry about “pass-through corporations” or other nonsense to hide income. The most I would do is get a good lawyer to ensure my updated will reflects how I want my newfound wealth distributed.

55
KGxvi  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:53:16pm

re: #53 freetoken

Correct, no state taxes on lottery wins here in California.

Regarding incorporating - not sure that will help with the IRS. They take their cut right off the top, and there may even be IRS rules specially covering what you are proposing.

Oh, I’m sure there are. I was mostly joking that the new tax law allows pass through corporation owners to pay corporate rates on their taxes rather than personal rates. Which is incredibly fucked up on many levels. My guess is that you can’t establish a business with gambling as it’s primary business.

56
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:53:47pm

MM posted this graph illustrating how fever works:

Even then, the number for today’s jackpot on that graph was OBE a few hours later.

57
Anymouse 🌹  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:54:44pm

re: #55 KGxvi

Oh, I’m sure there are. I was mostly joking that the new tax law allows pass through corporation owners to pay corporate rates on their taxes rather than personal rates. Which is incredibly fucked up on many levels. My guess is that you can’t establish a business with gambling as it’s primary business.

MegaMillions and Powerball are corporations. Gambling is their only business. See also casinos.

58
KGxvi  Oct 19, 2018 • 1:57:54pm

re: #57 Anymouse 🌹

MegaMillions and Powerball are corporations. Gambling is their only business. See also casinos.

I meant on the player’s side. I don’t think I could form a corporation or LLC that I could use as my business while playing.

59
Anymouse 🌹  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:01:47pm

re: #58 KGxvi

I meant on the player’s side. I don’t think I could form a corporation or LLC that I could use as my business while playing.

Got it.

60
Patricia Kayden  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:03:03pm
61
TedStriker  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:04:53pm

re: #55 KGxvi

Oh, I’m sure there are. I was mostly joking that the new tax law allows pass through corporation owners to pay corporate rates on their taxes rather than personal rates. Which is incredibly fucked up on many levels. My guess is that you can’t establish a business with gambling as it’s primary business.

I’m sure there’s some professional gamblers, like championship poker players, who probably were able to, in the eyes of the IRS.

62
GlutenFreeJesus  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:06:22pm

My only surprise is that it took this long.

63
GlutenFreeJesus  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:11:30pm

re: #23 jaunte

64
Mike Lamb  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:13:37pm

re: #10 Kilroy was here

Party of personal responsibility

Scalise: Trump was ‘clearly ribbing’ Gianforte with remarks on body-slamming reporter
thehill.com

The fact that it was a joke is the entire fucking problem.

65
BigPapa  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:16:42pm

re: #64 Mike Lamb

The fact that it was a joke is the entire fucking problem.

Trump has already said more than once it wasn’t a joke. So it’s a problem either way. Saying it was a joke is to cloak the offense, but also the offense is acceptable to joke about.

These people are trash.

66
Mike Lamb  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:18:01pm

Jeff Flakes as concerns concerning the ongoing concern that is the Khashoggi murder.

67
KGxvi  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:18:51pm

re: #61 TedStriker

I’m sure there’s some professional gamblers, like championship poker players, who probably were able to, in the eyes of the IRS.

I’m not sure. I know when you win more than $5,000 in a poker tournament, you get a 1099-MISC. The couple of times I’ve got one, they take down your personal info. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the top level guys have LLCs or corporations for their side ventures. From a practical point of view, it’d also probably be a pain in the ass to maintain corporate books and records for a business where you’re unlikely to get sued.

68
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:22:19pm

Fever:

69
Patricia Kayden  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:23:45pm

re: #3 goddamnedfrank

I really want to believe that that is not true and could never happen here but given where we are with Trump, who knows? This country is definitely moving in the wrong direction.

70
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:25:35pm

As I wrote, why buy one ticket when you can buy 10?

71
Charles Johnson  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:26:05pm
72
Charles Johnson  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:28:07pm
73
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:30:07pm
74
sagehen  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:30:55pm

re: #60 Patricia Kayden

Democrats have led every civil rights, labor rights, social activist & cultural change in America over the past 120yrs.

Sorry, no.

Liberals have led every civil rights, labor rights, social activist & cultural change in America over the past 120yrs.

From 1860 until FDR, those liberals were almost all Republicans. Until the mid-1960’s, half those liberals were Republicans. Even as late as Nixon/Ford, it was Republicans who championed the EPA, OSHA, Title IX, Title X.

It’s only since Reagan that Democrats have been The Liberals.

75
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:31:55pm
76
Patricia Kayden  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:32:38pm
77
Anymouse 🌹  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:34:14pm

re: #61 TedStriker

I’m sure there’s some professional gamblers, like championship poker players, who probably were able to, in the eyes of the IRS.

See Schedule G, Gambling Income (where you also have to claim lottery winnings if they exceed a certain amount).

78
sagehen  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:34:59pm

re: #61 TedStriker

I’m sure there’s some professional gamblers, like championship poker players, who probably were able to, in the eyes of the IRS.

And horse-racing.

The way pari-mutual betting works, 83% of the bets go to payouts. You’re not betting against random chance, you’re betting against the other players. There’s people who win consistently.

79
First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:35:36pm

Former US attorney, Southern District of New York

80
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 2:35:42pm

re: #78 sagehen

And horse-racing.

. You’re not betting against random chance, you’re betting against the other players. There’s people who win consistently.

Sort of like futures markets…

81
dangerman  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:03:16pm

i’ve noticed a change
i dont know if its been the last month, or few months, or even longer

i just started to recognize it now in the threads over the last few days

- yes, it’s a con
- yes, a loyal group (26%? - 3x?%) has been taken in and seem to be happy about it
- yes, the bulk of the media/press is still hopelessly at sea
- yes they have a stranglehold on power and can throw their weight around

and

- it’s visible, obvious and now unmasked, how trump plays, how his team members work, what the press does (and doesnt do)
- look at the reactions to almost every post, every tweet, every bit of news
- almost every one has a reaction that says here’s what’s actually happened, here’s the backstory, here’s the scam, here’s the hidden agenda…
- here’s what the NYT will say, Washpo, etc.
- here’s his method, the repetition, his shtick…
- here’s the game plan, the same three steps, the same playbook, over and over…

a lot, not all has been effectively decoded
we now know.

- someone here yesterday quoted “Rommel, You Magnificent Bastard. I Read Your Book!”
- this is that
- collectively we figured it all out. without a book. (the art of the deal, my ass)

this is something

82
Patricia Kayden  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:10:06pm

Spare some tears for the poor Family Cruz

83
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:10:28pm
84
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:11:32pm

“A fight and quarrel by hands, one of which held a bone saw.”

85
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:11:38pm

re: #82 Patricia Kayden

“What is your message to her?”

You married him.

86
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:15:27pm

Depending on how, exactly, they said it, they may have been telling the truth. I mean, not under his own power, and not in one piece, but he DID leave.

87
Charles Johnson  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:15:58pm
88
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:17:29pm
89
Anymouse 🌹  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:17:45pm

re: #82 Patricia Kayden

Spare some tears for the poor Family Cruz

Poverty stricken Heidi Cruz, described in Wikipedia [citation needed]:

Heidi Suzanne Cruz (née Nelson; born August 7, 1972) is an American investment manager at Goldman Sachs. She served in the Bush White House as the economic director for the Western Hemisphere at the National Security Council, as the director of the Latin America Office at the U.S. Treasury Department, as Special Assistant to U.S. Trade Representative Robert B. Zoellick, and as economic policy advisor to George W. Bush’s 2000 presidential campaign.

Ted Cruz’s annual salary is worth ten times my house. As for Heidi, I seriously doubt she couldn’t buy a second home if she wanted to.

90
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:18:12pm

re: #44 Charles Johnson

Apparently I have politics on the brain. I read that as “tagged template liberals”.

91
Charles Johnson  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:18:31pm
92
Targetpractice  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:18:50pm

re: #87 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And so the gaslighting begins.

93
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:19:27pm

re: #89 Anymouse 🌹

Heidi is the kind of woman who is still complaining to reporters that Ted long ago gave her some pearls which “were probably fake.”

94
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:22:01pm
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Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:22:26pm

re: #91 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

It’s all good fun, till somebody loses an arm.

96
Targetpractice  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:25:18pm

Questioning turned into a fistfight, he died as a result, and the Saudis immediately covered it up and moved the body. Totally normal, folks.

///////

97
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:26:03pm

So basically we’re supposed to believe Jamal Khashoggi was a poor mans John Wick?

98
Targetpractice  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:31:22pm

It’s like the Saudis are just daring Turkey to release the taped recordings. “Prove us wrong.”

99
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:31:33pm
100
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:32:36pm
101
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:35:27pm
102
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:35:31pm

I wonder if the Saudis went with the “fight” excuse after they saw Trump championing fighting reporters??

103
goddamnedfrank  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:35:56pm

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME WITH THIS SHIT?!

104
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:36:02pm

re: #102 freetoken

I wonder if the Saudis when with the “fight” excuse after they saw Trump championing fighting reporters??

It was a body-slam gone wrong.

105
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:37:07pm

re: #104 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

It was a body-slam gone wrong.

That’ll make a great tweet.

106
goddamnedfrank  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:38:47pm
107
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:39:16pm
108
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:40:24pm

re: #105 freetoken

That’ll make a great tweet.

109
BigPapa  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:42:11pm

The best way to stop 15 bad guys with a bone saw…

110
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:43:19pm

I hope Trump’s inner circle will take a lesson: you can do all kinds of despicable favors for kings, but they will still happily sacrifice you for a momentary advantage.

111
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:45:38pm
112
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:46:28pm

So, will MBS play Henry II to Khashoggi’s Thomas Becket? “Which 15-18 of you will rid me of this meddlesome journalist?”

113
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:46:28pm

Apparently, 15 Saudi operatives were testing the hypothesis that the bone saw is mightier than the pen

114
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:47:56pm

re: #111 freetoken

[Embedded content]

Yeah, but what are the odds of dying in a car accident because you were attacked by a shark on your way to buy a lottery ticket?

115
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:48:31pm

re: #113 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Apparently, 15 Saudi operatives were testing the hypothesis that the bone saw is mightier than the pen

The pen is mightier than the sword, but the sword is about 2 1/2 feet longer.

116
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:48:36pm

Fever is spreading… now PowerBall jackpot for tomorrow is skyrocketing.

The two jackpots together have a sticker price of $1.47B.

Yes, now we’re talking real money.

117
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:49:25pm

re: #9 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

Imagine the reaction if bin Laden had been given the same treatment as Khashoggi and Obama had shrugged it off. The GOPers would have voted to impeach him the same day.

Seems to me that W said something to the effect that he didn’t even think about bin Laden

118
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:49:37pm

re: #114 Blind Frog Belly White

Yeah, but what are the odds of dying in a car accident because you were attacked by a shark on your way to buy a lottery ticket?

Well, given that amazing, invincible shark that shows up in freshwater in every hurricane photo, the probability might be higher than you think.

119
William Lewis  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:51:15pm

re: #113 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Apparently, 15 Saudi operatives were testing the hypothesis that the bone saw is mightier than the pen

Alas, the pen is mightier than the sword only when it is writing the sword’s orders…

(paraphrase of maxim 58)

120
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:51:35pm

re: #116 freetoken

Fever is spreading… now PowerBall jackpot for tomorrow is skyrocketing.

The two jackpots together have a sticker price of $1.47B.

Yes, now we’re talking real money.

When I went to the store this afternoon I had 9 singles in my wallet. So, I bought 4 Mega Millions quick pick tickets from two different locations

121
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:52:04pm

re: #118 freetoken

Well, given the amazing, invincible shark that shows up in freshwater in every hurricane photo, the probability might be higher than you think.

How long would a saltwater shark last in freshwater before dying of all its cells bursting from osmotic shock?

122
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:54:12pm

re: #119 William Lewis

Alas, the pen is mightier than the sword only when it is writing the sword’s orders…

(paraphrase of maxim 58)

“‘The Penis, Mightier Than The Sword!’ ……..No, wait, let me read that again……’The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword!’”

123
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Oct 19, 2018 • 3:58:36pm

re: #116 freetoken

Fever is spreading… now PowerBall jackpot for tomorrow is skyrocketing.

The two jackpots together have a sticker price of $1.47B.

Yes, now we’re talking real money.

Wednesday’s Power Ball jackpot was $345 Million. So, the climb to $470M isn’t really skyrocketing

124
Charles Johnson  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:00:31pm
125
goddamnedfrank  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:01:13pm
126
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:03:29pm

We went to the costume store. If you know, this would be dangerous:

127
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:04:16pm

re: #124 Charles Johnson

128
The Ghost of a Flea  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:08:59pm

re: #124 Charles Johnson

A chokehold from Ali “Bonesaw Hand” McGee.

Sorry for the black humor. This situation sickens me and I don’t have anything to say that’s cogent or analytical. It’s just fucking disgusting.

129
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:10:25pm

If it was just an innocent fight, why are people getting fired and arrested?

130
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:11:32pm
131
gocart mozart  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:11:57pm
132
goddamnedfrank  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:12:13pm
133
BigPapa  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:12:30pm

I can just imagine the wingnut talking points on this.

‘He tried to jihad the Saudi Embassy and got beat down’

134
Kilroy was here  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:12:33pm

Reporter fights back and is killed by a choke-hold while having fingers sawed off… He was resisting!!!! Next we’ll here he was trying to sell cigarettes without tax stamps.

135
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:12:59pm
136
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:19:05pm
137
The Ghost of a Flea  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:22:50pm

“What miserable drones and traitors have I nurtured and promoted in my household who let their lord be treated with such shameful contempt by a low-born clerk journalist!”

138
goddamnedfrank  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:24:49pm
139
Archangelus  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:27:21pm

A Republican I work with told me the other day how he dislikes Beto and that “everyone in the state has to make sure to vote so that he’s a one-term senator..”
And yes, he was being serious. To which, I still can’t even… xD
Given my thoughts on who should run for president in 2024, did I miss an opportunity by not telling him that I have no problem with that whatsoever?

140
goddamnedfrank  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:29:50pm
141
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:33:37pm
142
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:33:47pm

re: #124 Charles Johnson

“I was just holding my bone saw out in front of me and the poor guy stumbled right into it.”

143
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:35:09pm

re: #139 Archangelus

A Republican I work with told me the other day how he dislikes Beto and that “everyone in the state has to make sure to vote so that he’s a one-term senator..”
And yes, he was being serious. To which, I still can’t even… xD
Given my thoughts on who should run for president in 2024, did I miss an opportunity by not telling him that I have no problem with that whatsoever?

That person probably wonders why people think Republicans are stupid.

144
gocart mozart  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:36:19pm

Molly liked my comment

145
Charles Johnson  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:37:16pm
146
gocart mozart  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:41:13pm
147
TedStriker  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:41:22pm

re: #114 Blind Frog Belly White

Yeah, but what are the odds of dying in a car accident because you were attacked by a shark on your way to buy a lottery ticket?

For a chance at a billion bucks (before taxes), I’ll throw in a couple bucks at a shot.

Can’t win if you don’t play…

148
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:43:19pm
149
Charmingly Persistent  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:44:15pm
150
TedStriker  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:44:23pm

re: #126 Belafon

We went to the costume store. If you know, this would be dangerous:

[Embedded content]

Heh.

My brother got a full Rick costume (with full-sized head) off of Amazon the other day.

151
gocart mozart  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:45:26pm
152
fern01  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:45:50pm

re: #23 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Completely done with Jeff Flake’s concern act.

Amazing how much he learned from Susan Collins

153
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:46:43pm
154
TedStriker  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:48:58pm

re: #145 Charles Johnson

While making sure that CNN, Fox, AP, Reuters, and other news agencies have front-row seats for their cameras.

155
BeachDem  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:52:21pm

re: #146 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

I particularly like the headline “Scott Adams predicts greatest turnout by Republicans, maybe ever.”

Yep, when I want solid prognosticating, Dilbert’s insufferable “dad” is my go-to source.

156
Khal Wimpo (the extinguisher of tiki torches)  Oct 19, 2018 • 4:52:25pm

The Washington Post is having None. Of. It.

“Fred Hiatt, The Post’s editorial page editor who published Khashoggi’s work, sharply criticized the false and distorted claims about Khashoggi, who is feared to have been killed and dismembered by Saudi operatives.

“As anyone knows who knew Jamal — or read his columns — he was dedicated to the values of free speech and open debate. He went into exile to promote those values, and now he may even have lost his life for his dogged determination in their defense,” Hiatt said in a statement. “It may not be surprising that some Saudi-inspired trolls are now trying to distract us from the crime by smearing Jamal. It may not even be surprising to see a few Americans joining in. But in both cases it is reprehensible.”

157
gocart mozart  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:03:45pm
158
fern01  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:09:48pm

re: #85 Blind Frog Belly White

“What is your message to her?”

You married him.

Get a divorce

159
Single-handed sailor  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:09:53pm
160
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:11:08pm
161
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:13:12pm

“You don’t bring fists to a bonesaw fight, cowboy.”

162
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:14:13pm

re: #151 gocart mozart

163
mmmirele  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:14:21pm

re: #26 KGxvi

Again, I could see the agency making this argument in a “best interests of the child” sort of way. But I think it’s becoming harder and harder to make the argument that a religious upbringing (let alone a particular religious upbringing) is naturally in the best interests of the child. But for the state to make that argument is to ignore not only the child’s right to religious freedom but also that of otherwise qualified potential parents, and the state should have an obligation to protect the rights of the child and the potential parents.

Considering how churches have a hard time dealing with child abuse, churches should probably be out of the child placement biz.

164
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:14:32pm

With those soft, tiny hands?

165
fern01  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:14:49pm

re: #110 jaunte

I hope Trump’s inner circle will take a lesson: you can do all kinds of despicable favors for kings, but they will still happily sacrifice you for a momentary advantage.

Michael Cohen has been trying to explain it to them - with little success.

Wait until 2024 and they’all all be saying they were the ones who led the resistance.

166
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:19:14pm

re: #162 Belafon

[Embedded content]

Bloodthirsty Liberal Snowflake Mob!

(Which reminds me of the scene from Season 2 of The Expanse, where Gunny Drake is lying wounded on the ground on Ganymede, and red snowflakes, the frozen bloodspray from her comrades, fall on the cracked faceplate of her helmet.)

167
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:19:34pm
168
mmmirele  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:19:49pm

re: #41 Joe Bacon 🌹

South Carolina wants to discriminate against Jews. Well I wonder what Catholics and Mormons will do when South Carolina goes after them, too?

We’ve actually been there already, but in Texas. The Doe plaintiffs in Santa Fe ISD v Doe (2000) were Catholic and Mormon families who were basically getting screwed over by the Evangelical prayers at football games. The Supreme Court ruled that established prayers at a school sporting event were unconstitutional. In the middle of this, the federal district court judge had to admonish the school district to stop trying to figure out who the anonymous plaintiffs were.

Given the opportunity, Evangelicals will discriminate against other religions in a heartbeat.

169
Eventual Carrion  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:23:19pm

re: #94 jaunte

[Embedded content]

where’s the body

It’s over there, and over there, and some over there …
The person had very sharp fists.

170
Eventual Carrion  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:27:39pm

re: #124 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And rubbed back and forth on said saw vigorously.

171
Archangelus  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:30:29pm

re: #166 Blind Frog Belly White

Take da upvote, beratna… /Belter

172
Unshaken Defiance  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:30:47pm

So in the Saudi Embassy it devolved into a shoving match in a room paneled with bone saws and hamburger grinders. Riiight.

173
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:32:53pm
174
meteor  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:34:42pm
175
Unshaken Defiance  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:36:01pm

re: #171 Archangelus

Take da upvote, beratna… /Belter

Nice riff.

176
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:38:50pm

It’s mad out there. Stopped by the corner store… old ladies in line buying 10 lottery tickets at a time.

177
goddamnedfrank  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:39:10pm

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen Saudis defend their government purely on the basis of greed.

178
Targetpractice  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:41:08pm

So, if I win the jackpot tonight, does that mean I no longer get my Soros checks?

179
TedStriker  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:41:51pm

re: #178 Targetpractice

So, if I win the jackpot tonight, does that mean I no longer get my Soros checks?

That means you get to write the checks.

180
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:45:08pm

Religious right wingnut:

181
BigPapa  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:45:12pm

Might need to hire somebody to write your checks for you.

182
Sionainn, the Nasty Devilbitch  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:46:00pm

re: #181 BigPapa

Might need to hire somebody to write your checks for you.

I would do it for a small fee of $1,000,000.

183
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:47:10pm

re: #180 freetoken

Religious right wingnut:

[Embedded content]

I mean, isn’t it a private company? It’s not a government entity, and you don’t have to show ID to buy a goddam ticket.

184
gocart mozart  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:47:39pm
185
gocart mozart  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:48:05pm
186
stpaulbear  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:51:13pm

re: #176 freetoken

It’s mad out there. Stopped by the corner store… old ladies in line buying 10 lottery tickets at a time.

There’s such a frenzy around this lottery that whoever wins it is going to have their life totally fucked up.

I’d rather win one million when no one’s paying attention. I wouldn’t want to win this one.

187
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:52:48pm

Read all of this. It’s not about what you think of Warren as a candidate.

188
Charles Johnson  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:53:00pm
189
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:53:27pm

Many people, perhaps most, don’t seem to realize that the “billion” dollar jackpot is just an approximation, and for an annuity at that (and not a very good one.).

Looking at past awards, present cash values tend to run about 59% of the claimed annuity total. Since the current claimed cash value is $565M that means (assuming the annuity calculation is not being changed) that the annuitized amount is more like $958.

If this is true then MegaMillions is intentionally false advertising because the word “billion” will sell more tickets.

Or, the annuitized amount really will turn out to be more than a billion, or the cash value less than $565.

190
Charles Johnson  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:55:58pm
191
Charles Johnson  Oct 19, 2018 • 5:59:50pm
192
Unshaken Defiance  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:01:20pm

re: #189 freetoken

If I win, you can be my well enumerated rep to check their math.

193
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:06:40pm
194
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:10:24pm

re: #189 freetoken

And the 5 for $5 special isn’t actually $5.

195
Charles Johnson  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:13:40pm
196
Targetpractice  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:16:36pm

re: #195 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

IIRC, he did his usual “It could have been anybody” bit the other day. That this was a bunch of “rogue operators” who went behind their boss’ back to take care of a guy he hated without his approval, it’s totally something Donny would use as an excuse to drop the whole matter.

I predict by Friday, we’ll be told the matter’s over, the Saudis have got their man, and anybody who’s calling bullshit is doing so because “THEY WANT TO SEE TRUMP FAIL!”

197
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:18:57pm

Because of all the tickets being sold, people appear to believe there has to be a winner tonight.

But… no, there doesn’t.

MegaMillions does not disclose how many tickets they sell. Yet according to Wikipedia (source is a CBS news story), MM returns about 60% of their revenue to winners. I sort of doubt that figure, as it’s too close to the cash-value equivalent of 59%. But let’s go with a pay-out total of 59% of revenue.

MegaMillions (and Calottery too) do a very good job of hiding past promises (this is, after all, the gambling business, notorious for being hidden), but IIRC, Tuesday’s cash value was estimated to be around $392M.

So the cash value has increased $173M.

If MM returns 59%, that means the current haul (since after the drawing Tuesday night) is $293M in sales since Tuesday night.

At $2 per ticket, that makes about 147M tickets sold.

Nowhere near enough to cover all the 302,575,350 possibilities. About half the possibilities will be covered.

Also, while people may think they are unique, we tend to act alike. How many people pick their birthdate as a magic number? MM does not disclose pick statistics, but I bet the numbers 1-28 get picked the most, then 29, then 30, then 31.

And regarding the random quick draws: once there are 151,287,675 unique tickets out there, the random number machine is more likely to generate a ticket for you that duplicates someone else, than generate a unique ticket.

So no, there does not have to be a winner tonight.

I will not be surprised if there is, given a third to a half of the combinations are sold.

198
CarolJ  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:21:10pm

re: #189 freetoken

At that level it really doesn’t matter anymore. I’d happily take the hit on both taxes and annuity. The remainder pays for a dream lifestyle for me and some members of my family. It’s more than I could ever (sanely) spend. Unless I moved to Los Vegas and spent all my time in the casino, things would be just fine. I haven’t bought a ticket yet-just waiting to see if someone wins this time. If not, I’ll buy ten and hope for at least a 5 number match somewhere. Sure, there would be huge changes for me-I’d have to move somewhere with bank-like security and such, but those can be managed with a new lawyer and business manager and accountant.

199
Joe Bacon 🌹  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:22:27pm

re: #178 Targetpractice

So, if I win the jackpot tonight, does that mean I no longer get my Soros checks?

Nothing would give me more pleasure than dumping $10 million into the Texas Senate race to take out KKKruz!

200
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:23:53pm

For all of you scientists, electrons are round. For all of you non-scientists, electrons being round means that some theories attempting to supplant the current explanation of how things are predicted will either need to be tossed or reworked. The article, for the layman, explains in more detail. The paper it’s based on is linked at the bottom of the article.

201
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:25:13pm

re: #188 Charles Johnson

What was that about crazed, violent mobs of Soros-paid antifa Democrats? It’s preemptive projection, is what it is.
These fascists are planning mass violence. Unlike Antifa and other radical leftists, the violent right is an integral part of their affiliated party and a major element of their future strategy.

202
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:25:47pm

re: #199 Joe Bacon 🌹

Nothing would give me more pleasure than dumping $10 million into the Texas Senate race to take out KKKruz!

I suspect a winner wouldn’t actually get the money in time to affect the race, but if they could, I would pay for all of the operation in North Dakota to get the Native Americans their IDs, and I would pay for all sorts of transportation to get Democrats to the polls here in Texas (early voting starts Monday).

203
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:27:42pm

re: #188 Charles Johnson

There was someone in the replies who was like “The criticism of this action is valid, but the Proud Boys aren’t white supremacists.” I passed a couple of links from their stunt in New York back. I don’t care if it doesn’t mean much to the person.

204
gocart mozart  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:29:29pm
206
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:33:04pm
207
Skip Intro  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:34:42pm

re: #201 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

What was that about crazed, violent mobs of Soros-paid antifa Democrats? It’s preemptive projection, is what it is.
These fascists are planning mass violence. Unlike Antifa and other radical leftists, the violent right is an integral part of their affiliated party and a major element of their future strategy.

And no mainstream media in this country will report that.

208
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:35:50pm

re: #200 Belafon

Bottom line: the results support the long standing theory, which uses spatial symmetry to explain distributions of probabilities.

It’s only bad news for people who were trying to come up with novel ideas to modify the current theory.

I don’t like how popular media handles these stories because they tend to misunderstand the ideas. In this case, the story overlooks the real meaning(s) of the uncertainty principle.

Electrons don’t actually exist as round spheres. That may be the popular idea out there, but it’s not what is really going on.

Rather, the electron has a distribution in space that, unless space is bent somehow (gravity) that is spatially symmetric.

The charge distribution can be affected by other particles with charge, but those are very, very minor changes as particles tend to not like to get close to each other. (There are times when that is not true, such as when a neutron decays into a proton and something to carry a negative charge, but the daughter products quickly disperse.)

What these latest experiments do, to the consternation of young physicists hoping to get the Nobel some day, is that the Standard Model is going to be hard to fundamentally overturn. No one yet has been smart enough to figure out how to change it to address the few things the SM can’t explain.

209
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:36:37pm

re: #195 Charles Johnson

210
Targetpractice  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:37:41pm

re: #209 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

[Embedded content]

*sigh*

211
Unshaken Defiance  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:39:18pm

re: #198 CarolJ

It cost me $5 to play 3 games. The small one is 14 million. That one, at my age could secure about as comfortable life as one could ask. The others, well ridic. Hundreds of millions. I can only fly one plane, sleep under one roof, sleep in one bed. It’s all just for the hell of it, trick is remember one is as good odds, as 100 bought won’t really help. Thinking on a practical, not mathematical scale. If I put all my annual lotto money in savings and waited ten tears at current interest I could… Buy a day old loaf.

212
Charles Johnson  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:39:55pm
213
EPR-radar  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:46:43pm

re: #208 freetoken

…
What these latest experiments do, to the consternation of young physicists hoping to get the Nobel some day, is that the Standard Model is going to be hard to fundamentally overturn. No one yet has been smart enough to figure out how to change it to address the few things the SM can’t explain.

The funny thing about the Standard Model is that it is clearly a hack job where two mostly incompatible theories (special relativity and quantum mechanics) are stitched together so that calculations can be done.

But it works, and it works exceedingly well for the questions it can deal with.

Nearly every attempt to come up with new physics that goes beyond the standard model comes up with predictions that fail, or are ridiculously untestable.

214
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:52:13pm

re: #213 EPR-radar

Not only is the SM a kludge, but it posits things like quarks and gluons - things that can’t actually exist by themselves. They are only inferred.

The SM is the least complicated (Ockham etc.) way to explain the data.

That it is not so elegant bothers some people, but not me. I see no reason the universe has to comport to my whims on beauty.

215
The Ghost of a Flea  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:52:30pm

The other thing I’d note is: contrast the flat reaction to the death of a US resident (Khashoggi) and a US citizen (Heather Heyer)* to the urgent insistence of foreigners and social misfits committing violence against Americans (Real Americans).

*yes, that list could be expanded greatly

Death and suffering don’t matter beyond their utility as a scary story.

Most people do not matter is their unstated premise.

216
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:53:08pm

Radio ad in Arkansas suggests ‘lynching’ if Democrats win

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) — A Republican congressman in central Arkansas and his challenger on Thursday condemned a political action committee’s radio ad that suggests white Democrats will lynch black Americans if they win the midterm election next month.

GOP Rep. French Hill criticized the ad from Black Americans for the President’s Agenda, which invokes the accusation that Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh sexually assaulted a woman when he was a teenager. A woman in the ad says that “white Democrats will be lynching black folk again.”

217
Unshaken Defiance  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:54:29pm

re: #216 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

Russian trolling looks like Russian trolling.

218
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:55:10pm

re: #213 EPR-radar

I’m playing both amateur scientist and amateur mathematician here, but classical theory, starting with Newton, really got going when calculus had been used by enough people to be used in physics. Quantum theory came about after statistics gained a solid mathematical footing. Maybe we need the next great math leap.

219
EPR-radar  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:56:58pm

re: #214 freetoken

Not only is the SM a kludge, but it posits things like quarks and gluons - things that can’t actually exist by themselves. They are only inferred.

The SM is the least complicated (Ockham etc.) way to explain the data.

That it is not so elegant bothers some people, but not me. I see no reason the universe has to comport to my whims on beauty.

What I’m hoping to see is a transition from the standard model to a successor theory that is as substantial as the transition from Newtonian gravity to General Relativity. Conceptually that is what seems to be called for.

220
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:58:37pm
221
Single-handed sailor  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:59:15pm
222
The Ghost of a Flea  Oct 19, 2018 • 6:59:18pm

re: #215 The Ghost of a Flea

The follow-up here is the way that the few “unjustly” dead individuals are stripped of their personality, hopes, and ideals, and are transformed into ghoulish sock puppets, their deaths re-played to illustrate talking points.

223
EPR-radar  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:00:47pm

re: #218 Belafon

I’m playing both amateur scientist and amateur mathematician here, but classical theory, starting with Newton, really got going when calculus had been used by enough to be used in physics. Quantum theory came about after statistics gained a solid mathematical footing. Maybe we need the next great math leap.

Newton/Leibniz are the inventors of calculus, and Newton needed that for his physics. So I think there is a decent chance that a real mathematical breakthrough will be a necessary part of going past the standard model. Perhaps a mathematics that deals more directly with quantum uncertainty than can be done with a statistical averaging.

224
goddamnedfrank  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:04:32pm
225
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:08:20pm

“Counter it” meaning “lie your asses off.”

226
EPR-radar  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:08:28pm

re: #224 goddamnedfrank

Even more entertainingly, some captains of the Praetorian Guard became emperors after dispatching the previous occupant of the office.

227
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:09:18pm
228
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:10:00pm

re: #225 jaunte

I believe counter in this case means “accuse Democrats of wanting to raise people’s taxes and spend all of the money for Medicare on universal health care.”

229
EPR-radar  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:10:44pm

re: #228 Belafon

I believe counter in this case means “accuse Democrats of wanting to raise people’s taxes and spend all of the money for Medicare on universal health care.”

I.e., lie their asses off.

230
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:11:38pm

re: #227 jaunte

Like I said #228.

And that’s because it’s what I hear here in the DFW area. Colin Allred is going to do just that according to the GOP.

231
goddamnedfrank  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:14:31pm
232
guachi  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:14:35pm

re: #227 jaunte

Not surprising. I had a bunch of liberals with no connections to one another all post about this on Facebook after Mitch McConnell said he wanted to cut SS and Medicare.

If randos on the internet can do this then so can candidates for office.

233
The Ghost of a Flea  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:15:17pm

David Frum, getting paid good money to say shit I said years ago (and Fred Clark said eloquently enough for me to echo him, years before that):

Republicans are conscious of Trump’s incitements at the time they occur. Yet they somehow cannot retain the memory of those incitements between the occurrences. “Republicans produce jobs, Democrats produce mobs” has become the party’s closing slogan—even as it urges voters to think of the election as a referendum on the record of Trump, the mob-leader-in-chief. How is this even done? Where does the mind find these resources? It’s beyond hypocrisy—it’s a double-folded state of being, and it will go on so long as the need to make excuses for Donald Trump continues.

The call is coming from inside your own house, David.

The “double-folding” has been practiced for at least forty years. Start with the Reagan mythology—first the myths he peddled, then the ones they made about him. Proceed forward through Limbaugh, Gingrich, Bush/Cheney, Palin, Tea Party, Birthers, Romney…the specific tactic of bullying, sneering at victims and victimhood, while claiming to be true victims and thus permitted to bully, recurs.

Abusers justify their abuse by pre-emptively claiming victimhood, even when all observation shows that the abusers have the material power.

234
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:16:01pm
235
stpaulbear  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:20:39pm

re: #225 jaunte

[Embedded content]

“Counter it” meaning “lie your asses off.”

My favorite radio station has been playing a lot of political ads for Wisconsin candidates and it’s just shameless how much they’re lying about health care. One of the candidates won’t even say which party he’s from as he brags about how well funded the schools are (while screwing the hell out of teachers) and how they’re ‘protecting’ health care (while suing to end coverage of existing conditions).

I had complained to the station 2 years ago when they were playing a lot of really toxic PAC ads. It’s a very small independent station so I think my message may have gotten through because they’re not running any PAC ads this year, but they’re running Scott Walker ads every half hour along with some other western WI candidates. They sound like they could be ads for Democratic values. They’re lying their asses off, and they’re running scared.

236
stpaulbear  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:23:47pm

re: #231 goddamnedfrank

My cat didn’t like the sound of that mongoose.

237
Single-handed sailor  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:24:30pm

re: #227 jaunte

[Embedded content]

If only we were able to mount a fairly disciplined Democratic attack.

238
gocart mozart  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:26:14pm
239
goddamnedfrank  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:27:20pm
240
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:28:41pm

re: #239 goddamnedfrank

“OK, how do we do an SNL skit for this?”

241
Eventual Carrion  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:29:27pm

re: #225 jaunte

[Embedded content]

“Counter it” meaning “lie your asses off.”

Yeah. Convince them you will not do what you are planning on doing.

242
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:31:45pm

GOP following the lead of Putin’s troll farms.

243
VegasGolfer  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:32:27pm
244
stpaulbear  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:32:33pm

re: #239 goddamnedfrank

…ended with the autopsy expert we planned in advance to be there for no reason needing to do a gruesome job he does so often he’s developed a musical routine to cope with the horror.

I’m saaawin’ in the rain…

/Clockwork Orange

245
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:33:49pm

re: #242 jaunte

GOP following the lead of Putin’s troll farms.

[Embedded content]

Which is the trap Warren fell into.

246
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:33:50pm

re: #243 VegasGolfer

When does she get to be American?

247
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:34:49pm

re: #243 VegasGolfer

“That is why I am going to take so much money from lobbyists that my adopted Chinese granddaughter will never have to worry about her preexisting conditions until I die.”

248
jaunte  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:39:04pm
249
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:41:33pm

Mega Millions Live Stream: Watch the Drawing Online

250
The Ghost of a Flea  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:43:35pm

re: #233 The Ghost of a Flea

I’m know I’m going on and on, but how deep into lotus eating are these Beltway pundits?

My entire childhood I was around “conservative” Kentuckians whose lives were built on the distinction Frum calls “double folding”: if they did it was acceptable if not laudable, while the same act—fucking, swearing, fighting, cheating—damned anyone else.

The absolute impenetrable bedrock of this was the notion that their (some mix of white, male, that one brand of “Christian,” better off financially) emotions were reflective of Truth and genuine, while everyone’s else’s emotions were reflective of weakness, inability to reason, and falsehood.

Go listen to Limbaugh; that’s the whole basis of his shtick. His feelings are validity—his anger, his contempt, his self-pity—and the emotions of anyone else are invalidating.

251
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:46:58pm

re: #250 The Ghost of a Flea

Broken record that I am….. I still think this all boils down to a delayed post-Christianity transition, that has been put off by the US’s own Constitution which, though secular, has allowed religious groups to find shelter from taxes, criminal prosecution, etc.

The hard, hard truth is that many Americans want to live in a pretend world. Facing the reality that what they were taught is just a series of lies, many Americans have pushed on with a social “Christianity” that is now all about tribalism.

252
Single-handed sailor  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:52:01pm
253
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:54:54pm
254
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:55:03pm

A statistics question: Based on Random number selection, what would be the average number of tickets that would need to be sold to get every combination? There are 5 numbers picked from 1-70, and 1 picked from 1-25. The minimum is C(70, 5)*25 = 302,575,350, and there’s theoretically no maximum.

255
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:57:38pm

re: #254 Belafon

If you have 302,575,350 unique tickets you will win.

If you have a random number generate 302,575,350 tickets in a row… I forgot how to calculate the residuals at step N.

256
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 7:58:50pm

If you have 302,575,349 unique tickets, you might have to wait a very long time for the 302,575,350th unique ticket to show up.

257
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:00:20pm

Livestreams are jammed or off-line. Must be many trying to watch in real time.

258
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:01:57pm

Well, John Crow seemed quite excited to say the “B” word.

259
Mattand  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:08:13pm

re: #235 stpaulbear

The GOP Senate candidate here in NJ had the fucking gall to run an ad where claimed he stood for liberal values, like women’s and gay rights, among others.

Pissed me off to no end.

260
MsJ  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:12:57pm

re: #50 KGxvi

Something like $565.6 million if you take the cash option. Less taxes (two thoughts: California at least doesn’t collect income tax on lottery winnings; and might need to look into incorporating before cashing the ticket, in order to pay corporate rates as a pass through).

Why take the cash option when you’d get something like $50 mil a year and get it all (assuming you live, which a trust or corporation would take care of)?

Right?

261
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:16:52pm

re: #260 MsJ

Why take the cash option when you’d get something like $50 mil a year and get it all (assuming you live, which a trust or corporation would take care of)?

Right?

Fewer taxes on the cash option I believe.

262
Mattand  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:17:05pm

re: #260 MsJ

I had always heard that it was better to take the lump sum, as you could in theory make more money long term through smart investing. Although I read something earlier that said you do slight better on taxes by taking the annuity, at least with this jackpot.

That said, if I win an obscene amount of money by spending $2 on a piece of paper, I couldn’t give two shits how the cash is delivered.

263
retired cynic  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:20:03pm

If I won (and, yes, I bought a couple of tickets!), I don’t think I could do better than to contact J.K. Rowling, and ask her advice. I think she has taken her windfall and done much good with it.

264
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:20:08pm

Independent Alaskan Governor Bill Walker is dropping out of the race and endorsing Mark Begich, the Democrat: dailykos.com

I am suspending my campaign for re-election as Governor. With more time, I am confident that Val and I could deliver a message and a campaign that could earn a victory in this election. But there are only 18 days remaining before election day. Absentee ballots have already been mailed, and Alaskans are already voting. In the time remaining, I believe we cannot win a three-way race. This week I have talked to many Alaskans to determine whether I or Mark Begich had a better chance of running a competitive race against Mike Dunleavy. The determination was made that, at this point, Begich has the better odds. Alaskans deserve a competitive race. Alaskans deserve a choice other than Mike Dunleavy, whose record and campaign rhetoric indicate he will: eliminate Medicaid Expansion that has provided healthcare access to 44,000 Alaskans, created jobs and brought $1 billion federal dollars into the Alaskan economy while decreasing State healthcare expenditures by $16 million, kept hospitals from closing, and saved lives; defund the Alaska LNG Gasline project that has made historic progress, will create 12,000 high paying construction jobs, 88,000 direct and indirect jobs and deliver low cost energy to our homes and businesses; undo the bipartisan approved sustainable fiscal plan that has resulted in fiscal stability, significantly reduced the deficit, improved our credit rating and preserved the PFD program into perpetuity;
cause our most vulnerable to suffer the brunt of the additional $1 billion in budget cuts he vows to make to education, rural Alaska and those receiving healthcare.

265
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:23:48pm

re: #262 Mattand

California has no state taxes, and the federal tax on $650M is the same rate as for $2M+ per year.

The lottery annuities generally are very poor. MegaMillions and the ilk make the first few years of payments relatively small, and in the last few years pay you back with much cheaper money.

266
MsJ  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:24:31pm

re: #197 freetoken

Because of all the tickets being sold, people appear to believe there has to be a winner tonight.

But… no, there doesn’t.

MegaMillions does not disclose how many tickets they sell. Yet according to Wikipedia (source is a CBS news story), MM returns about 60% of their revenue to winners. I sort of doubt that figure, as it’s too close to the cash-value equivalent of 59%. But let’s go with a pay-out total of 59% of revenue.

MegaMillions (and Calottery too) do a very good job of hiding past promises (this is, after all, the gambling business, notorious for being hidden), but IIRC, Tuesday’s cash value was estimated to be around $392M.

So the cash value has increased $173M.

If MM returns 59%, that means the current haul (since after the drawing Tuesday night) is $293M in sales since Tuesday night.

At $2 per ticket, that makes about 147M tickets sold.

Nowhere near enough to cover all the 302,575,350 possibilities. About half the possibilities will be covered.

Also, while people may think they are unique, we tend to act alike. How many people pick their birthdate as a magic number? MM does not disclose pick statistics, but I bet the numbers 1-28 get picked the most, then 29, then 30, then 31.

And regarding the random quick draws: once there are 151,287,675 unique tickets out there, the random number machine is more likely to generate a ticket for you that duplicates someone else, than generate a unique ticket.

So no, there does not have to be a winner tonight.

I will not be surprised if there is, given a third to a half of the combinations are sold.

That hurt my brain.

267
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:25:52pm

re: #265 freetoken

Reading on the mega millions website, one of the things they do is increase each years payment by 5%.

268
freetoken  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:29:31pm

re: #267 Belafon

Reading on the mega millions website, one of the things they do is increase each years payment by 5%.

Which means the first payment is relatively small in face value compared to the 30th.

269
The Ghost of a Flea  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:29:53pm

re: #251 freetoken

I just ate a long post that agreed with you at length.

There’s a unique fucked-up version of US Christianity that justifies this behavior because it’s custom-built to excuse the abuse of power…starting with slavery.

Man, I actually used Ed Gein as part of an extended metaphor….

270
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:29:57pm

re: #266 MsJ

That hurt my brain.

Basically, unless all of America gets together and everyone splits all of the numbers so that they are all covered, there will always be a chance that the winning number doesn’t match the numbers people bought.

271
Belafon  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:31:44pm

re: #268 freetoken

Yep. According to this, if someone took the option for tonight’s pot, they would receive an initial payment of around $15M.

272
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:31:55pm

re: #236 stpaulbear

My cat didn’t like the sound of that mongoose.

Same with mine.

273
The Ghost of a Flea  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:33:03pm

re: #272 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Same with mine.

rock-paper-scissors

dogs-cats-mustelids

274
MsJ  Oct 19, 2018 • 8:33:16pm

re: #271 Belafon

Yep. According to this, if someone took the option for tonight’s pot, they would receive an initial payment of around $15M.

That would hold me over for a year! 😂


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