New Music From Snarky Puppy: “Xavi” - Official Audio

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Sure, Trump’s ranting away on Twitter again about nonexistent “caravans” and fantasy walls and how incredibly tremendous he is, but I’d rather listen to the new track by Snarky Puppy right now. How about you?

The first single “Xavi” from Snarky Puppy’s new album, “Immigrance,” is now available worldwide. Immigrance will be available worldwide March 15th.

Pre-order “Immigrance” and instantly download “Xavi”:
http://radi.al/Immigrance

Pre-order Digital/CD/Vinyl in our US Store: https://store.snarkypuppy.com/
Pre-order Digital/CD/Vinyl in our EU Store: https://storeeurope.snarkypuppy.com/
See Snarky Puppy on tour: http://snarkypuppy.com/tour

Personnel:
Bob Lanzetti - electric guitar
Chris McQueen - electric guitar
Mark Lettieri - baritone guitar
Michael League - electric bass, handclaps
Bill Laurance - Fender Rhodes, clavinet, piano (solo)
Justin Stanton - piano
Bobby Sparks - clavinet and Minimoog (solo)
Shaun Martin - Minimoog bass
Mike “Maz” Maher - trumpet
Jay Jennings - trumpet, flugelhorn
Chris Bullock - tenor sax, soprano sax, flute, alto flute, bansuri, metal pife
Bob Reynolds - tenor sax
Zach Brock - violin (solo)
Nate Werth - Moroccan darbuka, Moroccan bendir, timbal, krakeb, handclaps
Keita Ogawa - Moroccan darbuka, Moroccan bendir, metal feathers, timbal, krakeb, ksink ksink, ocean drum (solo), reverse gong, timbal, bougarabu, handclaps
Marcelo Woloski - Moroccan darbuka, Moroccan bendir, elephant bells, timbal, krakeb, handclaps
Jason “JT” Thomas - drums
Larnell Lewis - drums
Jamison Ross - drums

Written by Michael League
Produced by Michael League and Snarky Puppy
Engineered and Mixed by Nic Hard
Mastered by Dave McNair
Artwork by Zeycan Alkiş
Graphic Design by Amalia Drewes

www.snarkypuppy.com
www.groundupmusic.net

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170 comments
1
Charles Johnson  Jan 19, 2019 • 10:59:20am
2
Charles Johnson  Jan 19, 2019 • 10:59:32am
3
Dave In Austin  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:00:14am
4
Chrysicat  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:00:27am

CL’d again. Is it a rule that if I’m about to post, a thread’s about to close?

5
jaunte  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:03:27am

re: #2 Charles Johnson

“Posturing.”

When you’re trying real hard not to be caught talking about “virtue-signaling” like a common Trumper.

6
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:04:34am

In DC for the “pro-life” rally, and had time to harass Native Americans ?

That school’s servers should be melting in a puddle of solder about now.

7
Targetpractice  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:04:38am

So I’m hearing the rumors that Donny is going to offer some version of DACA extension and possibly some other immigration “concessions” in exchange for the $5.7B.

So a year after he browbeat the DNC into accepting a clean CR over refusal to pay a “ransom,” then killed a deal that would have netted him 5 times what he wants for what he’s likely offering, he thinks this shit will be believable?

You know what’s sad? He’s probably right, the media are going to present this as a “compromise” on his part that shows he’s serious about making a “deal,” and damn the DNC for not immediately jumping on it.

8
plansbandc  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:05:03am

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Just told him to fuck off. Am in a mood.

9
Charles Johnson  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:06:05am
10
jaunte  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:06:50am
11
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:07:40am
12
Dave In Austin  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:08:43am

I basically grew up and lived most of my life in AZ. I have contacts that are deeply rooted in the NA Nations. She sent me this note. Take it for what it is. Expect LOTS of songs and dancing.
“We must ask to be purified. That IS the purification. The Buffalo Nation is on the move. We call it Chankaluta. That boy has dust from “The Red Road” on him. He may resist but he has been changed. So have his classmates. Now we wait.”

13
Myron Falwell  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:08:51am
14
Charles Johnson  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:09:35am
15
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:11:47am

Big rocket finally moving out

16
Alephnaught  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:11:56am

It’s Glasgow, it’s January, therefore it’s… Celtic Connections time!

17
Charles Johnson  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:13:22am
18
Myron Falwell  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:13:53am
19
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:15:13am

re: #14 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Remember when conservatives liked to accuse liberals of disrespecting the elderly. We’ve all done stupid shit as kids. But it was usually stuff that came at our own expense. Conservatives want to be able to try kids as adults for crimes but also think if you act like a douchebag as a teenager, it’s not a big deal.

20
jaunte  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:16:23am

re: #18 Myron Falwell

Leading to the thought that the whole point of their field trip to DC was to swell a misogynist mob and act like assholes.

21
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:16:29am

re: #7 Targetpractice

So I’m hearing the rumors that Donny is going to offer some version of DACA extension and possibly some other immigration “concessions” in exchange for the $5.7B.

So a year after he browbeat the DNC into accepting a clean CR over refusal to pay a “ransom,” then killed a deal that would have netted him 5 times what he wants for what he’s likely offering, he thinks this shit will be believable?

You know what’s sad? He’s probably right, the media are going to present this as a “compromise” on his part that shows he’s serious about making a “deal,” and damn the DNC for not immediately jumping on it.

From Vox:

Jonathan Swan from Axios reports that in exchange for his wall, Trump will protect DREAMers by offering to temporarily shield them from deportation and grant three-year work permits through the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, known as DACA. In addition to those measures, currently proposed in Congress as part of the BRIDGE Act, unnamed sources tell Swan that the president will support legislation to extend the legal status of Temporary Protected Status (TPS) holders.

vox.com

The correct Democratic response is to demand that the government be reopened immediately so that negotiations can begin. I’m not categorically opposed to negotiating a deal to throw Trump a couple of billion for “steel slats” or whatever in return for real concessions on behalf of people who need help; the racists probably won’t let Trump accept a deal like that anyway.

22
Charles Johnson  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:17:05am
23
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:17:24am

Aren’t these the same people who called Treyvon Martin a thug who deserved to be murdered too because he had smoked pot and gotten in a fight with another student?

24
plansbandc  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:19:06am

re: #23 HappyWarrior

The very same.

25
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:20:01am

re: #24 plansbandc

The very same.

You already know that I was speaking rhetorically. I mean the kid doesn’t need to have his whole life upended over this but does he need to face some sort of consequence? Yes.

26
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:20:15am

re: #19 HappyWarrior

Remember when conservatives liked to accuse liberals of disrespecting the elderly. We’ve all done stupid shit as kids. But it was usually stuff that came at our own expense. Conservatives want to be able to try kids as adults for crimes but also think if you act like a douchebag as a teenager, it’s not a big deal.

If you are a white, rightwing douchebag. They love to shame black kids.

27
Targetpractice  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:20:30am

re: #21 NO SMOCKING GUN!

From Vox:

vox.com

The correct Democratic response is to demand that the government be reopened immediately so that negotiations can begin. I’m not categorically opposed to negotiating a deal to throw Trump a couple of billion for “steel slats” or whatever in return for real concessions on behalf of people who need help; the racists probably won’t let Trump accept a deal like that anyway.

They’ll accept it if it means he gets the wall money, even if it means bitching and moaning awhile about “amnesty.”

28
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:21:21am

re: #26 NO SMOCKING GUN!

If you are a white, rightwing douchebag. They love to shame black kids.

Yes not black teenagers but black kids like the 11 year old that was assaulted recently.

29
Unshaken Defiance  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:22:05am

re: #25 HappyWarrior

You already know that I was speaking rhetorically. I mean the kid doesn’t need to have his whole life upended over this but does he need to face some sort of consequence? Yes.

No worries here. Public shaming is a lost art and a useful tool for a civilized culture to admonish the unwise.

30
gwangung  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:22:28am

re: #26 NO SMOCKING GUN!

If you are a white, rightwing douchebag. They love to shame black kids.

I’ve heard that Mr. Phillips and his group started drumming to distract the crowd from harassing some African Americans.

31
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:22:37am

The fact of the matter is this to me is that conservatives bring up their kids in a way that teaches them not to respect or acknowledge people who look or are otherwise different from them.

32
Charles Johnson  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:23:26am
33
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:23:35am

re: #27 Targetpractice

They’ll accept it if it means he gets the wall money, even if it means bitching and moaning awhile about “amnesty.”

They didn’t last year when $25 billion was offered for wall money, because they know that the wall is nothing but political theater and it’s totally fucking useless.

34
ObserverArt  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:23:54am

re: #11 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

[Embedded content]

Good launch. Nice camera work. Secret payload on it’s way to ??? Who knows!

35
Unshaken Defiance  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:24:23am

re: #31 HappyWarrior

The fact of the matter is this to me is that conservatives bring up their kids in a way that teaches them not to respect or acknowledge people who look or are otherwise different from them.

IOW stop writing this off as old white guys, the young are at least as tainted with Trumpism. Insidiocrats.

36
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:24:46am

huffingtonpost.com
Mr. Phillips has experienced this crap before unfortunately. Racism towards Native Americans is one of the most socially acceptable bigotries in our society among young and old.

37
Charles Johnson  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:25:22am
38
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:25:46am

re: #32 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Joe, where do you think they learn this kind of stuff is okay? I get what you’re saying but this isn’t organic. People raised that this kind of shit is acceptable do this kind of shit. And they have a President as a role model that thinks it’s okay too.

39
Teddy's Person  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:26:25am

Public shaming in (mostly colonial) America has a long tradition. Let the 21st century version of pillorying begin!

40
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:26:42am

re: #35 Unshaken Defiance

IOW stop writing this off as old white guys, the young are at least as tainted with Trumpism. Insidiocrats.

Right, it’s definitely not just old white guys. The alt-right is full of guys like these kids that were born when I was in high school.

41
Myron Falwell  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:28:00am

re: #36 HappyWarrior

huffingtonpost.com
Mr. Phillips has experienced this crap before unfortunately. Racism towards Native Americans is one of the most socially acceptable bigotries in our society among young and old.

If you’re from Cleveland, you’re far more likely to view Chief Wahoo as an icon, it doesn’t matter the political affiliation (now AFAIK, I believe Sen. Sherrod Brown refuses to wear anything with it on)

42
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:28:57am

Want to make the younger generation better? Be an example yourself. Don’t laugh at that racist joke. Tell your kids and students that the immigrant has the same dreams as you and yours. Don’t act like racism is only its most extreme- Klansmen and Nazis. Acknowledge that racism hasn’t disappeared. Don’t use MLK’s words to disparage movements you deem unfit. Use those words to inspire being better.

43
ObserverArt  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:29:27am

re: #14 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Wall Street Journal. Sadly that told me a lot about his take.

He adds to the atmosphere that creates and allows the behavior.

This isn’t much different than the excuses for Kavanugh.

44
Charles Johnson  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:29:33am
45
Belafon  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:30:14am

re: #21 NO SMOCKING GUN!

I would only accept the wall for citizenship for DACA.

46
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:31:06am

re: #41 Myron Falwell

If you’re from Cleveland, you’re far more likely to view Chief Wahoo as an icon, it doesn’t matter the political affiliation (now AFAIK, I believe Sen. Sherrod Brown refuses to wear anything with it on)

I have a lot of family who are otherwise liberal people who see nothing wrong with the Washington Redskins name and logo. I love them but goddamn they are blinded by their fandom. I am glad that the Indians are getting rid of Chief Wahoo. TBH the Red stylized C is better. Not quite as classy as the Detroit D or the Yankees logo but a cool one. And good for Senator Brown for not humoring that. Unfortunately we have a local Democrat here who I very much like Chap Petersen who falls in to the same crap that I mention with my family and the Redskins.

47
jaunte  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:31:21am
48
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:32:13am

re: #44 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

We have gotten better I will concede but it is far from absent.

49
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:32:25am

re: #34 ObserverArt

Good launch. Nice camera work. Secret payload on it’s way to ??? Who knows!

It’s a KH-11 satellite for the National Reconnaissance Office. It’s headed to low earth orbit and will read your text messages on your phone while looking over your shoulder
(half // it can probably only read license plates on a clear day if the angle is right)

50
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:32:45am

re: #47 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Jesus fucking Christ.

51
ObserverArt  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:35:21am

re: #37 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Wait, wasn’t it was going to be at 3 PM?

52
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:35:30am

re: #45 Belafon

I would only accept the wall for citizenship for DACA.

If by “the Wall” you mean a 30 foot tall concrete structure across most of the length of the border, I wouldn’t accept it for any concession. If you mean $5 billion for some steel slats, I would take some form of the deal the GOP is reportedly offering, but first require the government be reopened immediately and then begin neogtiations.

53
jaunte  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:36:42am

re: #50 HappyWarrior

That school seems to be effective in teaching their students to take whatever they want.

54
Unshaken Defiance  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:37:11am

re: #39 Teddy’s Person

Public shaming in (mostly colonial) America has a long tradition. Let the 21st century version of pillorying begin!

[Embedded content]

Embedded Image

Not quite what I had in mind.

55
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:37:30am

re: #53 jaunte

That school seems to be effective in teaching their students to take whatever they want.

That really seems to be a common trend in all boys schools. If you recall, Georgetown Prep was all boys too.

56
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:37:42am

re: #51 ObserverArt

Wait, wan’t it was going to be at 3 PM?

Math is hard when trying to calculate eastern time from pacific time!

57
Charles Johnson  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:38:45am
58
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:39:13am
59
jaunte  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:39:41am
60
ObserverArt  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:40:48am

re: #52 NO SMOCKING GUN!

If by “the Wall” you mean a 30 foot tall concrete structure across most of the length of the border, I wouldn’t accept it for any concession. If you mean $5 billion for some steel slats, I would take some form of the deal the GOP is reportedly offering, but first require the government be reopened immediately and then begin neogtiations.

I’d put some guarantees in there too. Wall money is released when the agreed to DACA and other immigration/citizenship legislation is written, voted and signed into law.

I don’t trust these bastages!!!

61
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:41:07am

1) I never did anything this ignorant or stupid.
2) I never stood by encouraging/applauding anything this ignorant and stupid.
3) Although I have witnessed others doing ignorant and stupid things, and to my shame did nothing to stop them, I NEVER witnessed any of my friends, acquaintances, classmates, etc. do anything THIS ignorant and stupid.

I was not perfect, but for Christ’s sake, look at it. And where the fuck are the adult chaperones this trip undoubtedly had along?

62
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:41:11am

re: #58 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

[Embedded content]

It was always about that. .

63
jaunte  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:41:24am
64
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:41:39am
65
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:42:47am

re: #63 jaunte

[Embedded content]

The Proud Boys are just that. Boys. A bunch of douchebags who treat women how boys view girls when we’re in elementary school and have childish notions of gender.

66
Belafon  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:43:44am

re: #52 NO SMOCKING GUN!

If by “the Wall” you mean a 30 foot tall concrete structure across most of the length of the border, I wouldn’t accept it for any concession. If you mean $5 billion for some steel slats, I would take some form of the deal the GOP is reportedly offering, but first require the government be reopened immediately and then begin neogtiations.

Agree. Reopening first, then negotiations. In the negotiations, I won’t take a few more weeks of uncertainty for the DACA. It’s time to fix that.

67
Myron Falwell  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:44:47am
68
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:47:14am
69
Myron Falwell  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:48:51am

re: #68 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Good. It’s DOA. Let the GOP squirm.

70
Charles Johnson  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:51:01am

Trump might very well get so angry about the Democrats already turning down his stupid proposal that he’ll declare an emergency on a whim. Maybe that’s even the Dem strategy.

71
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:51:15am

re: #61 Blind Frog Belly White

[Embedded content]

1) I never did anything this ignorant or stupid.
2) I never stood by encouraging/applauding anything this ignorant and stupid.
3) Although I have witnessed others doing ignorant and stupid things, and to my shame did nothing to stop them, I NEVER witnessed any of my friends, acquaintances, classmates, etc. do anything THIS ignorant and stupid.

I was not perfect, but for Christ’s sake, look at it. And where the fuck are the adult chaperones this trip undoubtedly had along?

Douchebags assume that everyone is a douchebag, just as racists assume that every white man is a racist. This one is telling us more than he knows about his upbringing.

72
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:51:18am

re: #60 ObserverArt

I’d put some guarantees in there too. Wall money is released when the agreed to DACA and other immigration/citizenship legislation is written, voted and signed into law.

I don’t trust these bastages!!!

73
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:52:21am

re: #72 NO SMOCKING GUN!

[Embedded content]

The greatest negotiator!

74
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:54:20am

re: #65 HappyWarrior

The Proud Boys are just that. Boys. A bunch of douchebags who treat women how boys view girls when we’re in elementary school and have childish notions of gender.

They are facists, the Brownshirts of Trump’s movement.

75
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:55:03am

re: #66 Belafon

Agree. Reopening first, then negotiations. In the negotiations, I won’t take a few more weeks of uncertainty for the DACA. It’s time to fix that.

Fortunately, DACA is safe for another year.

76
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:56:01am

re: #74 NO SMOCKING GUN!

They are facists, the Brownshirts of Trump’s movement.

Yep.

77
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:56:14am

So did the orange moron make his latest racist announcement yet?

78
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:56:16am

re: #67 Myron Falwell

[Embedded content]

What are the Hitler Youth chanting, can you make it out?

79
ObserverArt  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:56:52am

re: #70 Charles Johnson

Trump might very well get so angry about the Democrats already turning down his stupid proposal that he’ll declare an emergency on a whim. Maybe that’s even the Dem strategy.

We’ve had one rocket launch today from California.

We might get another from Washington DC this afternoon.

80
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:56:57am

re: #71 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

Douchebags assume that everyone is a douchebag, just as racists assume that every white man is a racist. This one is telling us more than he knows about his upbringing.

“Who among us has not treated their friends to a racist spectacle of childish disrespect for others?”

(raises hand)

81
Targetpractice  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:58:48am

re: #72 NO SMOCKING GUN!

[Embedded content]

Hence why he’s making this “offer,” because he’s not really “giving” anything that’s his to give. To the unwashed masses, it might ring as a “concession” on his part, which is why the DNC needs to make clear out of the gate that this isn’t anything more than trading something for nothing.

82
Teddy's Person  Jan 19, 2019 • 11:59:11am

I want to live in a different reality where we don’t spend our Saturdays wondering what fresh hell the whims of Mad King Trump will rain down on my country and fellow country people.

83
ObserverArt  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:00:40pm

re: #75 NO SMOCKING GUN!

Fortunately, DACA is safe for another year.

And probably one of the reasons the Democrats already have the harpoon stuck in the Big Orange Whale.

There are McConnell fingerprints all over this ‘tactic’ of negotiation.

84
Teddy's Person  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:00:54pm

re: #78 NO SMOCKING GUN!

What are the Hitler Youth chanting, can you make it out?

Whatever it is, it sounded better in the original German. (h/t Molly Ivins)

85
Belafon  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:01:35pm

HBO tonight is running a show called BREXIT starring Benedict Cumberbatch.

86
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:02:58pm

re: #82 Teddy’s Person

I want to live in a different reality where we don’t spend our Saturdays wondering what fresh hell the whims of Mad King Trump will rain down on my country and fellow country people.

Yep, I wanted a wormhole back to the alternative universe I thought I lived in before the 2016 Presidential election. But if the Democrats gain control of the federal government in the 2020 election due to a GOP meltdown, it will have been bad but not all bad. If Clinton had won, we would still be looking at a GOP House obstructing everything until at least 2023, if not longer. But we would have a functional executive branch.

87
ObserverArt  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:04:15pm

re: #80 Blind Frog Belly White

“Who among us has not treated their friends to a racist spectacle of childish disrespect for others?”

(raises hand)

We rode a bus to a Washington DC tour from my Catholic high school singing OHIO by CSN&Y in April of ‘72.

We were disrespecting Ohio Governor Rhodes and Tricky Nixon.

88
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:04:42pm

re: #86 NO SMOCKING GUN!

Yep, I wanted a wormhole back to the alternative universe I thought I lived in before the 2016 Presidential election. But if the Democrats gain control of the federal government in the 2020 election due to a GOP meltdown, it will have been bad but not all bad. If Clinton had won, we would still be looking at a GOP House obstructing everything until at least 2023, if not longer. But we would have a functional executive branch.

Hopefully by this time in four years, we’re looking at an imploding and rudderless GOP not in control of the WH.

89
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:05:35pm

re: #87 ObserverArt

We rode a bus to a Washington DC tour from my Catholic high school singing OHIO by CSN&Y in April of ‘72.

We were disrespecting Ohio Governor Rhodes and Tricky Nixon.

My Dad’s upbringing was similar to yours OA. My grandfather would not have been happy to see his children or grandchildren harassing anyone.

90
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:05:37pm
91
jaunte  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:06:21pm

re: #88 HappyWarrior

Hopefully by this time in four years, we’re looking at an imploding and rudderless GOP not in control of the WH.

“Help anyone already in power” should by rights be a minority ideology.

92
The Ghost of Kung Fu Treachery  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:09:22pm

Waitwaitwait.

I realize that Hitler Baby and sponsorship loss are a spicy meatball, but for a second can we talk about the subtle seasoning of Ben Shapiro reading podcast ads aloud in the middle of a speech that included Baby Hitler?

Ad copy in the middle of the jeremiad.

93
Charles Johnson  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:10:41pm

Unless Buzzfeed can produce some real verifiable evidence for their “Trump told Cohen to lie” story, they made a disastrous mistake to trust Jason Leopold.

I seriously doubt Mueller’s office would have issued this unprecedented statement if there weren’t real problems with the story.

94
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:11:23pm

re: #92 The Ghost of Kung Fu Treachery

Waitwaitwait.

I realize that Hitler Baby and sponsorship loss are a spicy meatball, but for a second can we talk about the subtle seasoning of Ben Shapiro reading podcast ads aloud in the middle of a speech that included Baby Hitler?

Ad copy in the middle of the jeremiad.

“This portion of our spontaneous, organic, groundswell protest brought to you by…..”

95
Teddy's Person  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:11:32pm

re: #86 NO SMOCKING GUN!

Yep, I wanted a wormhole back to the alternative universe I thought I lived in before the 2016 Presidential election. But if the Democrats gain control of the federal government in the 2020 election due to a GOP meltdown, it will have been bad but not all bad. If Clinton had won, we would still be looking at a GOP House obstructing everything until at least 2023, if not longer. But we would have a functional executive branch.

Trumpco and the GOP are breaking shit, and we won’t know the full extent of the damage until the Democrats regain more power. House Dems are currently rolling up their sleeves and getting to work, but they have a long road ahead. What we know is horrifying, but I have a feeling it’s just scratching the surface.

96
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:11:40pm

re: #93 Charles Johnson

Unless Buzzfeed can produce some real verifiable evidence for their “Trump told Cohen to lie” story, they made a disastrous mistake to trust Jason Leopold.

I seriously doubt Mueller’s office would have issued this unprecedented statement if there weren’t real problems with the story.

I do remember Leopold from the infamous Rove indictment of some years back.

97
jaunte  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:12:40pm

re: #92 The Ghost of Kung Fu Treachery

Ad copy in the middle of the jeremiad.

Night of the Long Con.

98
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:12:52pm

re: #92 The Ghost of Kung Fu Treachery

Waitwaitwait.

I realize that Hitler Baby and sponsorship loss are a spicy meatball, but for a second can we talk about the subtle seasoning of Ben Shapiro reading podcast ads aloud in the middle of a speech that included Baby Hitler?

Ad copy in the middle of the jeremiad.

I think that could have been why he’s losing sponsors. They don’t want their company to be seen as pro or anti choice.

99
ObserverArt  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:13:14pm

re: #90 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Nope the weather is not all crazy due to climate issues. Nope.

Meanwhile Columbus is smack dab in the middle of the two fronts leading their way to the east coast that is causing this mess. Raining right now, snow just to the northwest.

Wintry mix to hit around 7:00 PM. Ice. I hate ice!

Then snow. 6 to 8” predicted.

Two weeks ago we had 60°. Weather comes at you fast.

100
Targetpractice  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:16:14pm

DNC response to whatever Trump “offers” today should be simple: “We’re happy to discuss immigration reform and protections for Dreamers after the government is reopened, not under the duress of a government shutdown which continues to cause unnecessary hardship to hundreds of thousands of Americans.”

101
Alephnaught  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:16:54pm

re: #16 Alephnaught

That’s the first half over. The support act, Landless, were extremely good .

102
Teddy's Person  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:17:15pm

re: #92 The Ghost of Kung Fu Treachery

Waitwaitwait.

I realize that Hitler Baby and sponsorship loss are a spicy meatball, but for a second can we talk about the subtle seasoning of Ben Shapiro reading podcast ads aloud in the middle of a speech that included Baby Hitler?

Ad copy in the middle of the jeremiad.

Earlier in the week (before the “we want to control women’s bodies” march), I had a colleague ask me if I knew who Ben Shapiro was. He’s philosophy faculty who’s teaching an online course in Ethics in the Tech Industry. He’s got a group of techbros in the course, which is why Shapiro came up. He said something like Ben’s a smart guy and was about to say something else (probably something about him being wrong). I interrupted and said, no he’s not.

103
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:18:56pm

re: #95 Teddy’s Person

Trumpco and the GOP are breaking shit, and we won’t know the full extent of the damage until the Democrats regain more power. House Dems are currently rolling up their sleeves and getting to work, but they have a long road ahead. What we know is horrifying, but I have a feeling it’s just scratching the surface.

To a certain extent, its not as bad as it seems. For example, a lot of the regulatory rollbacks they’ve announced have to go through courts and will never actually happen. And once a Democrat is back in the Oval Office, neglect of enforcement of regulations on the books can be quickly reversed. Their failure to cripple Obamacare has been a big failure as well, as nearly as many people signed up this year as last. One thing I noticed after the fact was that there weren’t any stories in 2018 about counties in danger of not having any insurance carriers to choose from on the exchanges like there had been the year before, and I’m not sure why. That’s a good sign for the stability of the exchanges, even without the individual mandate.

104
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:20:02pm

re: #102 Teddy’s Person

Earlier in the week (before the “we want to control women’s bodies” march), I had a colleague ask me if I knew who Ben Shapiro was. He’s philosophy faculty who’s teaching an online course in Ethics in the Tech Industry. He’s got a group of techbros in the course, which is why Shapiro came up. He said something like Ben’s a smart guy and was about to say something else (probably something about him being wrong). I interrupted and said, no he’s not.

He sounds smart if you think glib, confident bullshittery = intelligence. It’s why Conservatives love him, because he can talk fast and perform the Gish Gallop without faltering because of either honesty or shame.

105
ObserverArt  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:20:18pm

re: #100 Targetpractice

DNC response to whatever Trump “offers” today should be simple: “We’re happy to discuss immigration reform and protections for Dreamers after the government is reopened, not under the duress of a government shutdown which continues to cause unnecessary hardship to hundreds of thousands of Americans innocent of the politics and not all sold on the need for a wall.”

Can I add in that little bit at the end in italics?

106
Romantic Heretic  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:20:28pm

re: #21 NO SMOCKING GUN!

If I were the Democrats I’d tell him to piss up a rope. Lord Dampnut never keeps his word.

107
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:20:30pm

re: #102 Teddy’s Person

Earlier in the week (before the “we want to control women’s bodies” march), I had a colleague ask me if I knew who Ben Shapiro was. He’s philosophy faculty who’s teaching an online course in Ethics in the Tech Industry. He’s got a group of techbros in the course, which is why Shapiro came up. He said something like Ben’s a smart guy and was about to say something else (probably something about him being wrong). I interrupted and said, no he’s not.

I just observe that most of the Ben Shapiro hyperbolic verb come from his own website or his allies. All one needs to know about him is he smeared Hagel as a Hamas suppporter.

108
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:20:46pm

re: #100 Targetpractice

DNC response to whatever Trump “offers” today should be simple: “We’re happy to discuss immigration reform and protections for Dreamers after the government is reopened, not under the duress of a government shutdown which continues to cause unnecessary hardship to hundreds of thousands of Americans.”

Bingo.

109
Targetpractice  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:23:19pm

Or perhaps they could just simply say “This is yet another ‘deal’ where the negotiations were entirely between Republicans and thus does not meet the bar set by Senator McConnell that any bill the Senate takes up be one negotiated between the President and the Democratic leadership.”

110
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:23:33pm
111
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:25:11pm

Apparently, this already-rejected proposal is the brainchild of Jared Kushner, and of course the result of absolutely no consultation with Democrats. It’s his idea of what they want, or will accept.

Note also that he’s similarly compiling a ‘deal’ for the Middle East without consulting with any Palestinians to find out what they would want or accept.

He’s got a funny idea of how negotiations work. Probably why Trump thinks so highly of him.

112
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:25:58pm

re: #110 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

[Embedded content]

I’m looking forward to seeing Ben, capitalism’s cheerleader complain about capitalism hurting his brand.

113
Myron Falwell  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:26:12pm

DOA

114
Targetpractice  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:27:12pm

re: #111 Blind Frog Belly White

Apparently, this already-rejected proposal is the brainchild of Jared Kushner, and of course the result of absolutely no consultation with Democrats. It’s his idea of what they want, or will accept.

Note also that he’s similarly compiling a ‘deal’ for the Middle East without consulting with any Palestinians to find out what they would want or accept.

He’s got a funny idea of how negotiations work. Probably why Trump thinks so highly of him.

The thing is, it’s something that has been floated around by pundits for weeks now, was something that they suggested merely hours after the shutdown began. That Trump’s latching onto it now, after weeks of trying to strongarm the DNC into accepting his wall funding “or else,” only shows that he’s become so desperate to end this shutdown that he is now making offers he knows will piss of his base because he thinks it will somehow help him regain some leverage.

115
Teddy's Person  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:28:22pm

re: #103 NO SMOCKING GUN!

To a certain extent, its not as bad as it seems. For example, a lot of the regulatory rollbacks they’ve announced have to go through courts and will never actually happen. And once a Democrat is back in the Oval Office, neglect of enforcement of regulations on the books can be quickly reversed. Their failure to cripple Obamacare has been a big failure as well, as nearly as many people signed up this year as last. One thing I noticed after the fact was that there weren’t any stories in 2018 about counties in danger of not having any insurance carriers to choose from on the exchanges like there had been the year before, and I’m not sure why. That’s a good sign for the stability of the exchanges, even without the individual mandate.

Agreed. Somethings will be able to be rolled back easily. But I tend to think about the bigger picture of how Trumpco has exposed some serious cracks and flaws in our democratic intuitions. Republicans will continue to exploit those cracks to hold on to power and stand in the way of any democratic efforts to patch them up. The fact that a president - who is increasingly proved to be illegitimate (i.e., broke laws to win an election) - is stacking the federal judiciary with judges who will remain on the bench while Trumpco will (higher powers willing) rot in jail.

Shorter rant: I’m tired of decades of Republicans cheating, getting away with it, and doubling down on the cheating the next election cycle.

116
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:28:59pm

The Baby Hitler thing isn’t offensive to me. I’m more amused that this was actually used as a serious argument to dismiss abortion rights proponents.

117
Myron Falwell  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:29:30pm

Trump’s gotta be beyond pissed that his great, stupendous deal totally blew up in his face before he could even announce it.

118
steve_davis  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:30:17pm

re: #57 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

the interesting thing is that the main Indian society through the Mississippi valley was the Mound Builders, who had a thriving civilization, right up until someone got the idea that, because there was some resource pressure, enormous wooden walls ought to be built around major settlements. The amount of wood required basically further denuded the surrounding countryside, which created worse flooding from the Missouri and Mississippi rivers, and caused a shift in wildlife that exacerbated the resource pressure. I think there’s a lesson about walls in there.

119
Targetpractice  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:30:44pm

Trump hasn’t even given his speech, hasn’t even formally made his offer, and already it’s being soundly rejected by the DNC. Which means the media has their work cut out for them, trying to carry water for him by browbeating the DNC over refusing to “negotiate” after he has offered to “compromise.”

120
Teddy's Person  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:31:48pm

re: #104 Blind Frog Belly White

He sounds smart if you think glib, confident bullshittery = intelligence. It’s why Conservatives love him, because he can talk fast and perform the Gish Gallop without faltering because of either honesty or shame.

I know my colleague wants to engage honestly with the techbros in his course. What I left out of my original comment was that I continued to explain to him that Ben engages with people in very bad faith and be skeptical when his students invoke Ben.

121
Single-handed sailor  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:33:26pm
122
Myron Falwell  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:33:40pm

re: #119 Targetpractice

Trump hasn’t even given his speech, hasn’t even formally made his offer, and already it’s being soundly rejected by the DNC. Which means the media has their work cut out for them, trying to carry water for him by browbeating the DNC over refusing to “negotiate” after he has offered to “compromise.”

There’s a high probability that Trump goes absolutely off-script now, I mean, it’s just gotta happen.

123
Teddy's Person  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:34:29pm

re: #111 Blind Frog Belly White

Apparently, this already-rejected proposal is the brainchild of Jared Kushner, and of course the result of absolutely no consultation with Democrats. It’s his idea of what they want, or will accept.

Note also that he’s similarly compiling a ‘deal’ for the Middle East without consulting with any Palestinians to find out what they would want or accept.

He’s got a funny idea of how negotiations work. Probably why Trump thinks so highly of him.

How many times do mediocre white men, like Jared, have to fail before there is a consensus that he’s a loser?

124
plansbandc  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:35:16pm

re: #78 NO SMOCKING GUN!

Trump Youth. FTFY

125
Teddy's Person  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:35:22pm

re: #112 HappyWarrior

I’m looking forward to seeing Ben, capitalism’s cheerleader complain about capitalism hurting his brand.

Couldn’t happen to a more odious right-wing welfare king.

126
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:35:27pm

re: #120 Teddy’s Person

I know my colleague wants to engage honestly with the techbros in his course. What I left out of my original comment was that I continued to explain to him that Ben engages with people in very bad faith and be skeptical when his students invoke Ben.

My Dad though pretty liberal came across one of his videos and was impressed but I explained Gish Gallop and some of Ben’s greatest hits and he realized immediately he was just taken in by his confidence. I compared Ben to WFB, a name he knew and he understood immediately what Bens whole game is. I just hope unlike WFB, we don’t have an old Ben Shapiro somehow even older than he is now. He’s the most old 85 year old out there even more than actual 85 year olds. He could use a humility experience.

127
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:36:14pm

re: #125 Teddy’s Person

Couldn’t happen to a more odious right-wing welfare king.

Fucking A.

128
Targetpractice  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:37:13pm

It should be noted that Jared also made the rounds on Capital Hill last week, assuring Republicans just before Donny’s prime-time speech Tuesday that it was totally going to shift public opinion back in his favor. Now he’s predicting that this half-assed “offer” is going to peel enough Senate Dems away to get cloture and send the bill to the House.

Is it any wonder that the Kushner family’s “empire” is a crumbling joke under Jared’s stewardship?

129
MsJ  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:37:17pm

re: #80 Blind Frog Belly White

“Who among us has not treated their friends to a racist spectacle of childish disrespect for others?”

(raises hand)

Moi.

130
ObserverArt  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:37:28pm

re: #112 HappyWarrior

I’m looking forward to seeing Ben, capitalism’s cheerleader complain about capitalism hurting his brand.

He’ll say they all responded to the liberal hordes that are damaging this country. The freedom-hating liberals can’t debate him and prove he is wrong so this is how they fight when they aren’t on the right side of the argument.

Thus justifying himself for being awesome Ben Shapiro.

131
The Ghost of Kung Fu Treachery  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:38:04pm

re: #102 Teddy’s Person

Intellectual shallowness reigns the Internet. There are people that want the feeling of being “smart” by reciting a pat answer, and who can’t distinguish verisimilitude achieved by rhetoric…mostly particularly the usage of emotional language and fallacy…from veracity. It’s a type so specific that I’d propose it’s a continuation of the Engineer’s Fallacy.

It’s Dunning-Kruger Plus.

Ben Shapiro is smart in one specific way—he is good at using language to manipulate an audience. A person who views knowledge as a power dynamic, and thus has an emotional stake in being “smart” is a great mark for Shapiro’s style.

132
retired cynic  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:38:09pm

re: #118 steve_davis

the interesting thing is that the main Indian society through the Mississippi valley was the Mound Builders, who had a thriving civilization, right up until someone got the idea that, because there was some resource pressure, enormous wooden walls ought to be built around major settlements. The amount of wood required basically further denuded the surrounding countryside, which created worse flooding from the Missouri and Mississippi rivers, and caused a shift in wildlife that exacerbated the resource pressure. I think there’s a lesson about walls in there.

QFT, from just up the river from Cahokia. When we were big farming, we had mound areas on our fields, complete with pottery and spearpoints and hammers.

133
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:40:07pm

The problem with Ben is he wants to convince you debates are a why to determine morality. But winning a debate is often confirmation bias. And as I pointed out, Lincoln technically speaking lost the Lincoln-Douglas debates. Douglas became Senator not Abe. I don’t find Ben stupid but I do find what he does is extremely dishonest and his whole persona is a holier than thou douche that conservatives like him preport to hate. And so it’s clear I’m not being partisan. Bill Maher is similar in that he has smartest guy in the room syndrome surrounded by like minded allies.

134
ObserverArt  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:40:18pm

re: #117 Myron Falwell

Trump’s gotta be beyond pissed that his great, stupendous deal totally blew up in his face before he could even announce it.

T-minus 20:00 minutes and counting.

135
Teddy's Person  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:41:26pm

re: #121 Single-handed sailor

[Embedded content]

My heart goes out to all the immigrants who went through the long and expensive process to become citizens only to have Kirstjen Nielsen administer the oath of allegiances.

136
Belafon  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:41:29pm

“We Democrats offer the following: $1,000 for each DACA recipient and TPS resident that receives citizenship.”

Yes, I’m hooked on DACA, but I also think it would push some serious buttons on the right.

137
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:43:55pm

It’s also doing and insisting AOC is irrelevant yet five stories on his webpage dedicated to her. I could grudgingly respect Ben if he actually sought office. But he’s too chickenshit to do that whether it’s monetary or knowing what he does won’t fly in legislatures.

138
Teddy's Person  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:45:02pm

re: #133 HappyWarrior

The problem with Ben is he wants to convince you debates are a why to determine morality. But winning a debate is often confirmation bias. And as I pointed out, Lincoln technically speaking lost the Lincoln-Douglas debates. Douglas became Senator not Abe. I don’t find Ben stupid but I do find what he does is extremely dishonest and his whole persona is a holier than thou douche that conservatives like him preport to hate. And so it’s clear I’m not being partisan. Bill Maher is similar in that he has smartest guy in the room syndrome surrounded by like minded allies.

Never put Bill and Ben in the same box. But man, birds of a feather. I don’t watch Maher but assume that if Ann Coulter is a regular guest, so is Ben.

139
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:45:17pm

re: #131 The Ghost of Kung Fu Treachery

Intellectual shallowness reigns the Internet. There are people that want the feeling of being “smart” by reciting a pat answer, and who can’t distinguish verisimilitude achieved by rhetoric…mostly particularly the usage of emotional language and fallacy…from veracity. It’s a type so specific that I’d propose it’s a continuation of the Engineer’s Fallacy.

It’s Dunning-Kruger Plus.

Ben Shapiro is smart in one specific way—he is good at using language to manipulate an audience. A person who views knowledge as a power dynamic, and thus has an emotional stake in being “smart” is a great mark for Shapiro’s style.

Exactly why Science is not about debate. Debate is about showmanship and making an argument that sounds good to convince the ignorant.

Science is about data, about doing your damnedest to prove your hypothesis wrong, because it’s only if the data can’t disprove it that it might be true, whether you can state it in a glib manner or not.

140
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:45:45pm

The problem is the culture of “destroying” your opponent in argument. I’m no debater but when my libertarian and conservative friends rail on government, I point out what has worked.

141
Charles Johnson  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:45:57pm

Trump fans are such lovely people.

142
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:46:05pm

re: #138 Teddy’s Person

Never put Bill and Ben in the same box. But man, birds of a feather. I don’t watch Maher but assume that if Ann Coulter is a regular guest, so is Ben.

Haha fair enough.

143
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:46:45pm

re: #141 Charles Johnson

Trump fans are such lovely people.

[Embedded content]

Yeah okay Bro.

144
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:46:58pm

re: #131 The Ghost of Kung Fu Treachery

BTW, I had never heard of the Engineer’s Fallacy, but boy, does it ring true. I have so often read on Creationist or AGW discussions, someone say he was ‘trained in science’ who then demonstrates the opposite. Always engineers of some sort.

145
Targetpractice  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:47:59pm

This is basically Donny’s Brexit Deal moment: He makes an offer that his own base will reject because it smacks of “amnesty,” that Democrats will reject because it’s effectively worthless, and the media will be stuck trying to say is “better than nothing” to try to keep alive the idea that “both sides” are responsible for the shutdown continuing.

146
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:49:01pm

re: #144 Blind Frog Belly White

BTW, I had never heard of the Engineer’s Fallacy, but boy, does it ring true. I have so often read on Creationist or AGW discussions, someone say he was ‘trained in science’ who then demonstrates the opposite. Always engineers of some sort.

I’ve seen scientists used to discredit climate change. Usually they’re people whose speciality isn’t anything close to climate studies. It really would be like using me as an authority on the French Revolution when I’ve taken no course work on it.

147
The Ghost of Kung Fu Treachery  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:51:13pm

re: #139 Blind Frog Belly White

Okay, formal rhetoric is not a thing I know, so people correct me if I’m wrong.

But, isn’t the way they “debate”…not even debate?

I mean, bad faith is the norm—entirely separate standards for “our side” versus “other” when it comes to how a claim is validated (like how emotional displays make their positions “True” and everyone else’s “False”) Lying and false witness turns up a great deal.

148
Single-handed sailor  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:51:29pm
149
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:52:32pm

re: #148 Single-handed sailor

[Embedded content]

I wish more had joined him. We don’t need to honor a man who put captured black soldiers into slavery.

150
Teddy's Person  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:54:40pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

Haha fair enough.

They just sound like Philosophy 101 or Political Science 101 students who didn’t do the reading or attend lecture and are trying to bullshit their way through an essay.

151
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:55:27pm

re: #150 Teddy’s Person

They just sound like Philosophy 101 or Political Science 101 students who didn’t do the reading or attend lecture and are trying to bullshit their way through an essay.

Perfect analogy

152
Charles Johnson  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:55:48pm
153
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:57:33pm

Off-topic warning!

The Tenant Council ladies in our building have a sale in the lobby several times a year, of stuff people have donated. I scored an Apple Wireless Keyboard for 75¢! I am stoked!

154
The Ghost of Kung Fu Treachery  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:57:41pm

re: #152 Charles Johnson

Gestation tubes aren’t real people, you silly billy.

(do not point sarcasm detector at this post)

155
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:58:47pm

re: #146 HappyWarrior

I’ve seen scientists used to discredit climate change. Usually they’re people whose speciality isn’t anything close to climate studies. It really would be like using me as an authority on the French Revolution when I’ve taken no course work on it.

Right - Verecundiam fallacy. I remember a friend on another forum, who was reasonable if conservative until Obama was elected, and then he totally lost his shit. Disbelieveing AGW became a religious principle for him, which he tried to argue scientifically, but he’d say things like “This blogger, who has a background in science, states that there are not enough weather stations to measure warming”, about a blogger who had a BS in Psychology.

156
Teddy's Person  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:59:23pm

re: #151 HappyWarrior

Perfect analogy

I know of what I speak having read countless essay like this in my history survey classes. They’re easy to spot.

157
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 12:59:27pm

re: #152 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Or the constant shouting and harassment at facilities or the indifference towards violence and threats to abortion providers.

158
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 1:00:58pm

re: #155 Blind Frog Belly White

Right - Verecundiam fallacy. I remember a friend on another forum, who was reasonable if conservative until Obama was elected, and then he totally lost his shit. Disbelieveing AGW became a religious principle for him, which he tried to argue scientifically, but he’d say things like “This blogger, who has a background in science, states that there are not enough weather stations to measure warming”, about a blogger who had a BS in Psychology.

Obama really did make some otherwise fairly reasonable people lose their shit.

159
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 19, 2019 • 1:01:39pm

re: #158 HappyWarrior

Obama really did make some otherwise fairly reasonable people lose their shit.

How tight a grasp on it could they ever have had, though, to lose it so easily?

160
ObserverArt  Jan 19, 2019 • 1:01:52pm

So…4:00. Where is Bozo The Clown Trump?

161
Myron Falwell  Jan 19, 2019 • 1:02:06pm
162
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 1:02:42pm

re: #159 Blind Frog Belly White

How tight a grasp on it could they ever have had, though, to lose it so easily?

That’s a good question.

163
Myron Falwell  Jan 19, 2019 • 1:02:44pm

re: #160 ObserverArt

So…4:00. Where is Bozo The Clown Trump?

164
Single-handed sailor  Jan 19, 2019 • 1:04:31pm
165
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 19, 2019 • 1:05:55pm

re: #162 HappyWarrior

That’s a good question.

Nothing makes the privileged go apeshit faster than that privilege eroding, because it feels like they’re falling behind those who don’t have the privilege, rather than simply giving up what was never theirs by right in the first place.

166
MsJ  Jan 19, 2019 • 1:06:28pm

re: #158 HappyWarrior

Obama really did make some otherwise fairly reasonable people lose their shit.

Propaganda works.

We’ll never be whole as long as Fox is around.

And every democracy is in have peril because of Rupert Murdoch owned properties.

Tech is carrying an unhealthy load, especially Facebook… With Twitter right behind. Brexit, point in case.

Ireland prohibited Facebook to put up as about the abortion referendum. It passed.

I’m not sure what the they is but it starts with Fox News.

167
sagehen  Jan 19, 2019 • 1:09:15pm

re: #133 HappyWarrior

The problem with Ben is he wants to convince you debates are a why to determine morality. But winning a debate is often confirmation bias.

1960 — Nixon/Kennedy debates.

People who listened to it on the radio believed, overwhelmingly, that Nixon won.
People who watched it on TV believed, overwhelmingly, that Kennedy won.

It’s not about the strength of your arguments.

168
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 1:10:15pm

re: #166 MsJ

Propaganda works.

We’ll never be whole as long as Fox is around.

And every democracy is in have peril because of Rupert Murdoch owned properties.

Tech is carrying an unhealthy load, especially Facebook… With Twitter right behind. Brexit, point in case.

Ireland prohibited Facebook to put up as about the abortion referendum. It passed.

I’m not sure what the they is but it starts with Fox News.

I’m really impressed by Irish society. I’ve met a few Irish natives in my research. Very introspective people who aren’t ones to over glamorize the past.

169
HappyWarrior  Jan 19, 2019 • 1:10:28pm

re: #167 sagehen

1960 — Nixon/Kennedy debates.

People who listened to it on the radio believed, overwhelmingly, that Nixon won.
People who watched it on TV believed, overwhelmingly, that Kennedy won.

It’s not about the strength of your arguments.

Yep.

170
The Ghost of Kung Fu Treachery  Jan 19, 2019 • 1:15:21pm

re: #152 Charles Johnson

Serious statement about the same issue.

“Right to Life” falls under an umbrella of movements that claim to care about human beings on a theoretical level but have no compassion for actual, in-this-world people.

I keep repeating this, but…we’re dealing with people who have embraced a style of thinking in which signifiers (symbols) can be cut away from the signified, yet still have value and meaning. Their version of “life” is wielded exactly like their version of “The Bible” or “The Constitution”…the interior doesn’t matter.


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Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
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