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409 comments

1
goddamnedfrank  Apr 23, 2019 • 7:43:04pm
2
retired cynic  Apr 23, 2019 • 7:53:33pm

LOVE these guys!

3
Dread Pirate Union AFL-CIO  Apr 23, 2019 • 8:11:34pm
4
gocart mozart  Apr 23, 2019 • 8:25:34pm

U2 Jesus Christ (Traduzione italiano)
Jesus Christ was a man that traveled through the land
Hard working man and brave
He said to the rich, “Give your goods to the poor”
So they laid Jesus Christ in His grave
Yes, Jesus was a man, a carpenter by hand
His followers true and brave
One dirty coward called Judas Iscariot
Laid poor Jesus in His grave
He went to the preacher, He went to the sheriff
Told them all the same
“Sell all of your jewelry and give it to the poor”
So they laid Jesus Christ in His grave
When Jesus come to town, all the working folks around
Believed what he did say
The bankers and the preachers, they nailed Him on the cross
And they laid Jesus Christ in his grave
And the working people followed him around
Singing and shouting gay
But the cops and soldiers nailed him in the air
And they laid Jesus Christ in his grave
Well the people held their breath when they heard about his death
Everybody wondered why
It was the landlord and the soldiers that they hired
To nail Jesus Christ in the sky
This song was made in New York City
Of rich man and preachers, and slaves
If Jesus was to preach like He preached in Galillee
They would lay Jesus Christ in His grave
Yes, Jesus was a man and a carpenter by hand
His followers true and brave
One dirty coward called Judas Iscariot
As laid poor Jesus in His grave

5
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Apr 23, 2019 • 8:59:40pm
6
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 23, 2019 • 9:07:13pm

re: #5 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Maybe he’s losing followers because he’s an asshole?

🤷‍♂️

7
teleskiguy  Apr 23, 2019 • 9:08:31pm

re: #6 Eclectic Cyborg

Maybe he’s losing followers because he’s an asshole?

🤷‍♂️

8
ipsos  Apr 23, 2019 • 9:18:59pm

Sending warm fuzzies to klys, in the unlikely event she’s lurking, because her sportspuck team just made this Game 7 REALLY interesting…

9
Belafon  Apr 23, 2019 • 9:26:47pm

re: #5 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

[Embedded content]

10
Joe Bacon 🌹  Apr 23, 2019 • 9:45:35pm

re: #9 Belafon

[Embedded content]

And Jack was continually kissing Trump’s ass throughout this loveliest because of all the business he brings to Twitter.

11
goddamnedfrank  Apr 23, 2019 • 10:01:10pm

re: #7 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

I honestly can’t believe so many people hate followed him in the first place. I never, ever, do that shit, in fact the opposite, I block motherfuckers all the time. I’m absolutely deliberate and pre-emptive about it. I’ll sometimes click on a tweet from democratic politicians just to find a bunch of right wing trolls to block. I’ve been at it for so long that my block list (which you can subscribe to at the link) is just insanely enormous, closing in on 60K accounts as of right now. FYI TweetDeck has the best user interface for blocking, because it allows you to knock a bunch out in no time at all. I view it like having a garden, always be weeding or that shit will overwhelm you. For me it’s the only way to make twitter palatable.

12
Dread Pirate Union AFL-CIO  Apr 23, 2019 • 10:13:52pm

Spring is finally in full blast here. Was a nice 92F at 30% humidity, and my eyes have been itching for the past week from the pollen. I’ve doubled my benadryl dose over last week.

13
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 23, 2019 • 10:15:16pm

re: #10 Joe Bacon 🌹

And Jack was continually kissing Trump’s ass throughout this loveliest because of all the business he brings to Twitter.

When Stephen Moore said “Capitalism is a lot more important than democracy. I’m not even a big believer in democracy”, he was implicitly confessing his belief that capitalism and democracy are not compatible and that he stands on the side of capitalism. Unfettered capitalism leads to concentration of wealth and ultimately the end of true competition. A system that silences Stonekettle but allows Trump to flourish (yes I know — it was FB against Stonekettle — but they are both part of the same SM system) is not healthy for democracy or our nation.

—Edited for minor correction

14
goddamnedfrank  Apr 23, 2019 • 10:18:45pm
15
Joe Bacon 🌹  Apr 23, 2019 • 10:21:50pm

re: #13 Hecuba’s daughter

When Stephen Moore said “Capitalism is a lot more important than democracy. I’m not even a big believer in democracy was right”, he was implicitly confessing his belief that capitalism and democracy are not compatible and that he stands on the side of capitalism. Unfettered capitalism leads to concentration of wealth and ultimately the end of true competition. A system that silences Stonekettle but allows Trump to flourish (yes I know — it was FB against Stonekettle — but they are both part of the same SM system) is not healthy for democracy or our nation.

Real life once again negates Milton Friedman’s iron rule that free markets encourage democracy.

16
ckkatz  Apr 23, 2019 • 10:57:49pm

From Yesterday:

re: #64 Dave In Austin

Does anyone have an idea how the Iranian oil embargo is going to effect our fuel prices? They are on the way up here in Texas. I’m wondering if we’ll hit $4 again because of this turd.

Hmm, I wonder if there are any other countries that have huge reserves of petroleum. Who maybe cannot sell it because of some reason, say an embargo. And, maybe, arranged for a more compliant regime to take over the country leading that embargo; In order to remove that embargo.

But I suspect that you already knew that since you asked the question.

17
ckkatz  Apr 23, 2019 • 11:06:31pm

For those wondering why Jack ran over to the White House Tuesday. And why Zuckerberg has been helping Trump and Bannon.

From yesterday:

re: #183 wrenchwench

18
DodgerFan1988  Apr 23, 2019 • 11:15:19pm

Waterboarding is next.

19
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 23, 2019 • 11:17:55pm

re: #15 Joe Bacon 🌹

Real life once again negates Milton Friedman’s iron rule that free markets encourage democracy.

Free Markets have become an ideology, an end in themselves, a divine state that we should aspire to.

Markets are a mechanism; a way of balancing supply and demand, and of directing capital flows to where they can be the most productive. And like anything else, they are a human institution and possess the strengths and weaknesses inherent in anything we devise.

Adam Smith was for markets, but also pointed out that regulation is necessary if they are going to function for everyone: producers and consumers, employers and employees.

20
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 23, 2019 • 11:24:06pm

re: #16 ckkatz

From Yesterday:

Hmm, I wonder if there are any other countries that have huge reserves of petroleum. Who maybe cannot sell it because of some reason, say an embargo. And, maybe, arranged for a more compliant regime to take over the country leading that embargo; In order to remove that embargo.

But I suspect that you already knew that since you asked the question.

a nation that rhymes with “vuvzela”?

21
ckkatz  Apr 23, 2019 • 11:31:09pm

re: #20 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

a nation that rhymes with “vuvzela”?

I was thinking more of a country whose leader sounds like sputum, myself. But yours might also work.

22
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 23, 2019 • 11:42:03pm

re: #5 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

If you’re following Trump, unfollow him. You won’t miss anything.

So Trump was complaining because Twitter was removing bots who were following him?

23
teleskiguy  Apr 24, 2019 • 12:11:04am
24
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Apr 24, 2019 • 12:38:31am

re: #20 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

a nation that rhymes with “vuvzela”?

MP4 Video

25
freetoken  Apr 24, 2019 • 12:45:18am
26
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 12:48:34am

re: #25 freetoken

[Embedded content]

the Big Godowski?

27
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 12:51:10am

re: #24 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

[Embedded content]

Izzat from the TV remake?

28
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Apr 24, 2019 • 12:52:19am

For some reason this story reminds me of the winning entry in a German newspaper’s 1920s contest for the most sensational headline ever: “Arch-Duke Franz Ferdinand Alive! World War Fought by Mistake!

Facebook Post

29
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Apr 24, 2019 • 12:53:32am

re: #27 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Izzat from the TV remake?

Yes. I like the de Laurentis Navigator from the old one a lot better but couldn’t find a short enough clip of him.

30
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 12:56:01am

re: #29 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

Yes. I like the de Laurentis Navigator from the old one a lot better but couldn’t find a short enough clip of him.

The TV series came closer to geting to the core of the story: they are living in a future in which computers and genetic engineering have been banned, making it necessary to develop the powers of the human mind, for navigators to use the Spice to see into the future to plot a safe course and for the Sisterhood to employ breeding programs lasting over generations

31
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Apr 24, 2019 • 1:03:35am

re: #30 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

The TV series came closer to geting to the core of the story: they are living in a future in which computers and genetic engineering have been banned, making it necessary to develop the powers of the human mind, for navigators to use the Spice to see into the future to plot a safe course and for the Sisterhood to employ breeding programs lasting over generations

I didn’t particularly like the movie, the plot was incomprehensible, but I did like the visuals. The tadpole-like navigator character was especially sinister and disturbing.

32
Dr Lizardo  Apr 24, 2019 • 1:08:10am

re: #31 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

I didn’t particularly like the movie, the plot was incomprehensible, but I did like the visuals. The tadpole-like navigator character was especially sinister and disturbing.

From a purely visual POV, I’ve always loved Lynch’s Dune. It’s a masterpiece of set design.

The plot was muddled at best. Hopefully, Villeneuve can finally pull of a proper cinematic version.

33
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Apr 24, 2019 • 1:08:29am

Originally said in 1964 in response to the Goldwater slogan, “In your heart you know he’s right.”

34
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 1:18:32am

re: #32 Dr Lizardo

From a purely visual POV, I’ve always loved Lynch’s Dune. It’s a masterpiece of set design.

The plot was muddled at best. Hopefully, Villeneuve can finally pull of a proper cinematic version.

Lynch admitted that he never read the book, which explains the mess he made of the story.

Same goes for Verhoeven and Starship Troopers, as I understand, it started out with an entirely different story about space bugs and somebody got the idea of incorporating ST into it.

35
Patricia Kayden  Apr 24, 2019 • 1:47:05am
36
Ming5000  Apr 24, 2019 • 2:29:18am

re: #11 goddamnedfrank

I honestly can’t believe so many people hate followed him in the first place. I never, ever, do that shit, in fact the opposite, I block motherfuckers all the time. I’m absolutely deliberate and pre-emptive about it. I’ll sometimes click on a tweet from democratic politicians just to find a bunch of right wing trolls to block. I’ve been at it for so long that my block list (which you can subscribe to at the link) is just insanely enormous, closing in on 60K accounts as of right now. FYI TweetDeck has the best user interface for blocking, because it allows you to knock a bunch out in no time at all. I view it like having a garden, always be weeding or that shit will overwhelm you. For me it’s the only way to make twitter palatable.

I just subscribed. At the moment I read your post you were at 59563 +1.

37
Dave In Austin  Apr 24, 2019 • 3:11:50am

Central Texas is about to enter the Maw…… A monster is descending.

38
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Apr 24, 2019 • 3:12:17am

re: #9 Belafon

I would have paid Jack to tell Trump that the president shouldn’t be measuring his worth by the number of followers.

I think the orange-shitgoblin should repeatedly told that losing followers is where he should be focusing all of his attention. It’s the most important thing, evah. Keep him distracted, like a kitten following a laser pointer. No offense to kittens.

39
Decatur Deb  Apr 24, 2019 • 3:22:46am

re: #11 goddamnedfrank

… I’ve been at it for so long that my block list (which you can subscribe to at the link) is just insanely enormous, closing in on 60K accounts as of right now. ..

Piker. I’ve perma-blocked 7.7 billion people.

40
Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 24, 2019 • 4:22:48am

moron

41
Shropshire Slasher  Apr 24, 2019 • 4:35:17am

This is brilliant! Why didn’t anyone ever think of this before?!

An innovative aircraft that turns into a “lighter-than-air” balloon to propel itself forward has been flown for the first time.

The Phoenix is designed to repeatedly switch between being lighter and heavier than air to generate thrust and allow it to stay in the skies indefinitely.

Officially known as an “ultra-long endurance autonomous aircraft,” it was developed by scientists in Scotland and flown over a distance of 120 meters (394 feet) during its first test flight in March.

The blimp-like aircraft, which is 15 meters long and has a wingspan of 10.5 meters, has been designed for businesses and scientific use, and its creators hope it will revolutionize the telecommunications industry.

“The Phoenix spends half its time as a heavier-than-air aeroplane, the other as a lighter-than-air balloon,” explains Andrew Rae, professor of engineering at the University of the Highlands and Islands Perth College, who was involved in the project. “The repeated transition between these states provides the sole source of propulsion.

“This system allows the Phoenix to be completely self-sufficient,” he adds in a statement. “Vehicles based on this technology could be used as pseudo satellites and would provide a much cheaper option for telecommunication activities.”

The team behind the aircraft also believe it could be used to provide Wi-Fi coverage to remote areas.

The vehicle’s fuselage contains helium, allowing to to ascend, as well as an air bag that inhales and compresses air, enabling it to descend.

It also features solar cells on its wings and tail, which charge the battery that powers its valves and pumps.

Gas-filled dirigible-style aircraft have been making a return to the skies in recent years. The Airlander 10, a massive helium-filled airship claimed as the world’s biggest aircraft, is hoping to make its commercial debut in the next few years.

wtop.com

42
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 4:44:13am

re: #40 Backwoods_Sleuth

moron

[Embedded content]

You’re an asshole. They should have deported your grandfather to Germany.

43
Dave In Austin  Apr 24, 2019 • 5:18:43am

Reported

44
jeffreyw  Apr 24, 2019 • 5:20:30am

Good morning!

45
I Would Prefer Not To  Apr 24, 2019 • 5:20:54am
46
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 5:22:26am

re: #40 Backwoods_Sleuth

The American people deserve to know who is in this Country. Yesterday, the Supreme Court took up the Census Citizenship question, a really big deal. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

There is a tiny grain of truth behind this, namely that our immigration, naturalization, work and residency laws are in need of comprehensive reform.

Not at all in the sense that DT is pushing, namely build a wall and round up the rest, but in the sense of not just coming up with ridiculous local patchwork measures that just kick the can down the road and create other problems elsewhere.

But in the sense of a reasonable approach that addresses the issue of how people come to live and work in America. Heck, I would even support a reform in citizenship law to allow birthright citizenship only to those who are born here to legally registered residents, but only as part of a package of reforms that allows people to register and work here under humane and reasonable conditions.

(yes I know that it would involve amending the Constitution)

47
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 5:23:06am

re: #43 Dave In Austin

Reported

[Embedded content]

The Trump who cried Wolf.

48
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 5:25:14am

re: #47 HappyWarrior

The Trump who cried Wolf.

Every American within 50 miles of the border is advised to wear a bullet-proof vest at all times…

49
Dave In Austin  Apr 24, 2019 • 5:27:04am

re: #48 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Every American within 50 miles of the border is advised to wear a bullet-proof vest at all times…

And he does want rounds downrange. If I was garrisoned down there, I’m afraid I’d have to refuse those orders.

50
Shropshire Slasher  Apr 24, 2019 • 5:27:12am
Dairy goats herds expanded faster than any other major livestock group in the U.S. over the past decade. They’ve grown 61 percent between 2007 and 2017, according to the USDA’s latest Census of Agriculture, a once-every-five-years inventory of the nation’s farms. For context, broiler hens and beef cattle were relatively flat and numbers for specialty animals such as llamas, ostriches and emus fell off a cliff.

Who knew?! Sorry, I had a chuckle.

lmtonline.com

51
Dave In Austin  Apr 24, 2019 • 5:31:41am

re: #50 Shropshire Slasher

Goats kill the ground they graze on….

52
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 5:32:22am

re: #50 Shropshire Slasher

Make America Goat Again!!!

53
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 5:32:24am

re: #48 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Every American within 50 miles of the border is advised to wear a bullet-proof vest at all times…

The Southern one that is. He doesn’t give a fuck about the Northern one because it doesn’t fit his narrative.

54
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 5:37:32am

re: #51 Dave In Austin

Goats kill the ground they graze on….

which is why they use them here to keep abandoned vineyards from getting overgrown with brambles. nothing else works.

55
ObserverArt  Apr 24, 2019 • 5:57:22am

re: #39 Decatur Deb

Piker. I’ve perma-blocked 7.7 billion people.

Morning!

Me too, Deb.

And I don’t think I missed a thing. Might have prevented some things though.

56
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:02:23am

re: #11 goddamnedfrank

Just subscribed as well… I had plenty on my own block list, but you’ve taken it to a different level entirely.

57
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:03:17am

re: #46 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

[…]

I would even support a reform in citizenship law to allow birthright citizenship only to those who are born here to legally registered residents, but only as part of a package of reforms that allows people to register and work here under humane and reasonable conditions

[…]

That’s in downding territory. You’re lucky I have a new policy: No downdings before breakfast.

58
Decatur Deb  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:04:25am

re: #55 ObserverArt

Morning!

Me too, Deb.

And I don’t think I missed a thing. Might have prevented some things though.

We’ve got a groundswell, here.

59
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:07:21am

re: #53 HappyWarrior

The Southern one that is. He doesn’t give a fuck about the Northern one because it doesn’t fit his narrative.

And that’s why the White Walkers will come through with no problem and attack King’s Landing while feinting an attack on Winterfell.

/come on, you know this is coming, as is the resurrection of all the Starks as zombies under the command of the white walkers.

60
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:08:00am

re: #55 ObserverArt

Morning!

Me too, Deb.

And I don’t think I missed a thing. Might have prevented some things though.

I get enough Twitter chatter here indirectly, unless I have some professional reason to get on it, I will remain Twitter free

I did not even get on FB until a banjo student posted our next gig on her page and we filled up the club…but that is what I use it for: upcoming local events, jam sessions and keeping up with friends and family. Not for news or for political discussions. (that’s what I come here for)

61
Decatur Deb  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:10:17am

re: #52 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Make America Goat Again!!!

[Embedded content]

The rise in popularity of goats has a second-order effect, more work for Great Pyrs.

62
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:16:54am

re: #57 wrenchwench

That’s in downding territory. You’re lucky I have a new policy: No downdings before breakfast.

That is nothing I toss about lightly and again, only as part of a serious package of immigration reform.

63
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:24:06am

re: #62 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

That is nothing I toss about lightly and again, only as part of a serious package of immigration reform.

I see that as trading a basic American principal for the return of stolen immigration and asylum rights.

64
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:25:00am
65
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:27:08am

re: #63 wrenchwench

I see that as trading a basic American principal for the return of stolen immigration and asylum rights.

I fully believe in birthright citizenship.

Point is, we need to fully reform our entire approach to immigration and naturalization.

But I mean that in a positive and humane sense, not just in the sense of “round ‘em up!” or “build a wall!”

66
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:32:26am
67
wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:33:17am

re: #65 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Point is, we need to fully reform our entire approach to immigration and naturalization.

This would require both parties to agree on a clear and logical — and most of all fair — sets of laws and regulations regarding visas, residency, immigration and naturalization, rather than the patchwork, often self-contradictory system in place now. That system serves now only as a thorn in the sides of worthy people who want to live in the USA and as a political football to kick around come election time.

Don’t hold your breath.

68
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:33:29am
69
wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:33:58am

re: #66 Belafon

Tampa??!! I am impressed!

70
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:34:11am
71
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:34:54am

re: #65 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I fully believe in birthright citizenship.

That’s not what you said in #46. You would deny citizenship to the baby of asylum seeker who is born before Mom turns herself in (there is a time limit, but it’s like a year, IIRC).

72
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:36:05am

re: #68 Belafon

[Embedded content]

I am among the 77%.

73
makeitstop  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:37:48am

Another Republican calls for impeachment.

I know it’s sort of the fashion here to dismiss these calls, but I think that these announcements are important.

74
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:38:21am

re: #67 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

This would require both parties to agree on a clear and logical — and most of all fair — sets of laws and regulations regarding visas, residency, immigration and naturalization, rather than the patchwork, often self-contradictory system in place now. That system serves now only as a thorn in the sides of worthy people who want to live in the USA and as a political football to kick around come election time.

Don’t hold your breath.

I know, too many conflicting interests, and too many US industries (e.g., food service, construction, gardening/landscaping, domestic services, etc.) whose entire business model is based on having a large, low-wage, easily exploited (read; undocumented) work force

75
wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:38:41am

re: #72 HappyWarrior

I am among the 77%.

I would vote for a goat. //

76
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:39:23am

re: #75 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

I would vote for a goat. //

The goat has an excellent plan for grass.

77
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:40:09am

re: #75 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

I would vote for a goat. //

And when they fail… they are tasty as they spit roasted over an open fire.

78
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:40:36am

re: #76 HappyWarrior

The goat has an excellent plan for grass.

100% legal!

79
Decatur Deb  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:41:41am

re: #75 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

I would vote for a goat. //

ANY goat.

80
wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:42:50am

re: #74 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I know, too many conflicting interests, and too many US industries (e.g., food service, construction, gardening/landscaping, domestic services, etc.) whose entire business model is based on having a large, low-wage, easily exploited (read; undocumented) work force

Too few Americans understand how those “ill eagles” actually make life more affordable for the “eagles”: lower maintenance and repair costs, lower food prices, etc. Along the same lines, too few Americans (including our dope of a president) understand that increasing tariffs in imported goods raises the cost of living in the USA.

81
Decatur Deb  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:43:42am

But the goat will lose if we insist that it be an old goat, or a young goat, or a white goat, or a black goat, or a male goat or…

82
wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:43:47am

re: #79 Decatur Deb

ANY goat.

Added benefit: goats can neither talk nor tweet.

83
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:44:06am

re: #46 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

There is a tiny grain of truth behind this, namely that our immigration, naturalization, work and residency laws are in need of comprehensive reform.

Not at all in the sense that DT is pushing, namely build a wall and round up the rest, but in the sense of not just coming up with ridiculous local patchwork measures that just kick the can down the road and create other problems elsewhere.

But in the sense of a reasonable approach that addresses the issue of how people come to live and work in America. Heck, I would even support a reform in citizenship law to allow birthright citizenship only to those who are born here to legally registered residents, but only as part of a package of reforms that allows people to register and work here under humane and reasonable conditions.

(yes I know that it would involve amending the Constitution)

There are conservatives who think that birthright citizenship can be outlawed even within the frame of the current Constitution. In any case, I think that is a totally appalling suggestion; if we have to sacrifice birthright citizenship to get a sensible comprehensive immigration reform package, the price is too high. It is one of our laws that contributes to making us a great nation: that no one born here (except for offspring of foreign diplomats) is an alien. We are all part of the fabric of this nation.

84
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:44:21am

re: #71 wrenchwench

That’s not what you said in #46. You would deny citizenship to the baby of asylum seeker who is born before Mom turns herself in (there is a time limit, but it’s like a year, IIRC).

I fully support their path to citizenship then. If they are born to someone granted asylum here, then they should have the chance to remain and apply for citizenship.

You are correct, this is a bit of a gray area.

There are a lot of nuances to work out, but the point is they should be humane and not racist/xenophobic.

85
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:45:54am

re: #80 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

Too few Americans understand how those “ill eagles” actually make life more affordable for the “eagles”: lower maintenance and repair costs, lower food prices, etc. Along the same lines, too few Americans (including our dope of a president) understand that increasing tariffs in imported goods raises the cost of living in the USA.

Nor do many appreciate what they contribute in payroll taxes and Social Security (for which they have no legal claim)

86
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:47:01am

re: #83 Hecuba’s daughter

There are conservatives who think that birthright citizenship can be outlawed even within the frame of the current Constitution. In any case, I think that is a totally appalling suggestion; if we have to sacrifice birthright citizenship to get a sensible comprehensive immigration reform package, the price is too high. It is one of our laws that contributes to making us a great nation: that no one born here (except for offspring of foreign diplomats) is an alien. We are all part of the fabric of this nation.

I did not propose to fully sacrifice it, just amend it somewhat and attach the condition that the parents should be legal residents (or recognized refugees).

87
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:47:35am

re: #71 wrenchwench

That’s not what you said in #46. You would deny citizenship to the baby of asylum seeker who is born before Mom turns herself in (there is a time limit, but it’s like a year, IIRC).

You know, I’m going to say something here. Our status quo on birthright citizenship works. The precedent on birthright citizenship has been around since the Wong Kim Ark decision in 1898. It’s worked. What we should agree on is strengthening the ports of entry but we should also be making immigration easier and more affordable. We want to fancy ourselves as this great country and land of opportunity, let’s be that land.

88
makeitstop  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:48:11am

Remember Firebagger Larry Johnson, the guy with the awful haircut who touted the ‘Whitey tape’ when Firedoglake went all PUMA? He’s found a new home on the repulsive OANN…

89
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:48:41am

re: #86 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I did not propose to fully sacrifice it, just amend it somewhat and attach the condition that the parents should be legal residents (or recognized refugees).

Why change what’s worked? Why put kids in this permanent limbo that they don’t need because their parents violated what is a misdemeanor.

90
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:49:33am

re: #86 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I did not propose to fully sacrifice it, just amend it somewhat and attach the condition that the parents should be legal residents (or recognized refugees).

Which gets into the issue of what defines a legal immigrant. Someone’s here legally, they have a child, and overstay their visa. Is the child a citizen?

91
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:49:56am

re: #84 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I fully support their path to citizenship then. If they are born to someone granted asylum here, then they should have the chance to remain and apply for citizenship.

You are correct, this is a bit of a gray area.

There are a lot of nuances to work out, but the point is they should be humane and not racist/xenophobic.

This part:

You are correct, this is a bit of a gray area.

is incorrect. ‘Gray area’ is how you paint it. ‘Nuances’ do not enter into it (with the exception of offspring of foreign diplomats). Born here=citizen. If you ‘agree with’ me, that’s what you agree with.

92
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:49:57am

re: #87 HappyWarrior

What we should agree on is strengthening the ports of entry but we should also be making immigration easier and more affordable. We want to fancy ourselves as this great country and land of opportunity, let’s be that land.

If that is in place, then the birthright issue is moot. It is an issue because we still have a lot of unregistered entries and because the asylum system is being undermined by an administration that sees them as a threat

93
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:50:36am

re: #59 lawhawk

And that’s why the White Walkers will come through with no problem and attack King’s Landing while feinting an attack on Winterfell.

/come on, you know this is coming, as is the resurrection of all the Starks as zombies under the command of the white walkers.

Yep. Made that very comment in a FB discussion yesterday: the reason Arya is fleeing in terror in the GOT trailer is that the dead were reanimated in the Winterfell crypts.

94
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:50:57am

re: #86 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I did not propose to fully sacrifice it, just amend it somewhat and attach the condition that the parents should be legal residents (or recognized refugees).

I’m halfway through breakfast…

95
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:51:00am

re: #90 Belafon

Which gets into the issue of what defines a legal immigrant. Someone’s here legally, they have a child, and overstay their visa. Is the child a citizen?

That depends on how much they paid to stay at Trump properties.

96
makeitstop  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:51:27am

The fact that birthright citizenship is even up for debate here shows how far we’ve slipped in the past two years. It should be a fucking non-starter.

97
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:51:45am

re: #92 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

If that is in place, then the birthright issue is moot. It is an issue because we still have a lot of unregistered entries and because the asylum system is being undermined by an administration that sees them as a threat

I just don’t like the idea of putting these kids in limbo like that. They’re going to be growing up here and contributing to our economy. With all respect, we’ve had the current precedent on birthright citizenship longer than we have not.

98
BlueSpotinAL  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:51:47am

re: #75 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

I would vote for a goat. //

I would vote for a goat, and no “//”!

99
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:52:03am

re: #96 makeitstop

The fact that birthright citizenship is even up for debate here shows how far we’ve slipped in the past two years. It should be a fucking non-starter.

I think it is for almost everyone here.

100
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:52:29am

re: #96 makeitstop

The fact that birthright citizenship is even up for debate here shows how far we’ve slipped in the past two years. It should be a fucking non-starter.

It’s a precedent that has been in common law since 1898.

101
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:54:11am

It is driving me freaking batshit crazy to see EVERY MEDIA SOURCE quote Jared Kushner’s idiotic LIE about Mueller’s investigation doing more damage to democracy than Russia as if it is some kind of Ultimate Truth that may not be questioned.

102
Dave In Austin  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:54:30am

Texas is going to put a bad dog down tonite.
John William King
I’m actually rather indifferent to the death penalty. I want assured guilt proven for the defendant.
In this case, it took to long and whatever he gets (the needle) is too good for him.

Sorry, Not Sorry.

103
Citizen K  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:54:40am

As the child of immigrants who were only naturalized well after my birth, and had repeated Visa issues (and an older sister who was born when my parents were technically in that limbo), fuck anything that tries to make a compromise with Birthright Citizenship. It’s literally the last thing that’s the problem with our current immigration system at the moment, and it’s only racist ‘ANCHOR BABY INVASION!’ panic bullshit that we’ve been inundated with for decades so far that makes it a ‘problem’ politically.

104
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:55:10am

re: #96 makeitstop

The fact that birthright citizenship is even up for debate here shows how far we’ve slipped in the past two years. It should be a fucking non-starter.

It is a long-standing-position from a long-term lizard. I’m pushing back harder than usual.

105
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:55:29am

re: #96 makeitstop

The fact that birthright citizenship is even up for debate here shows how far we’ve slipped in the past two years. It should be a fucking non-starter.

Because our immigration and naturalization system is such a clusterfuck it breeds issues like that.

If we can reform that, then birthright citizenship is a non-issue.

NB: I live in a country where nationality was determined by the nationality of the Father until 200. That means that my oldest daughter was born in Germany but not German.

The law was amended in 2000 to allow birthright for all children born to legal residents. So her siblings were born German, and the oldest daughter was given a chance to apply retroactively.

But that is serious apples and oranges, there is no comparing the situation here and the one between the US & Mexico.

106
makeitstop  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:55:36am

re: #103 Citizen K

As the child of immigrants who were only naturalized well after my birth, and had repeated Visa issues (and an older sister who was born when my parents were technically in that limbo), fuck anything that tries to make a compromise with Birthright Citizenship. It’s literally the last thing that’s the problem with our current immigration system at the moment, and it’s only racist ‘ANCHOR BABY INVASION!’ panic bullshit that we’ve been inundated with for decades so far that makes it a ‘problem’ politically.

This.

107
Citizen K  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:55:58am

re: #101 The Vicious Babushka

It is driving me freaking batshit crazy to see EVERY MEDIA SOURCE quote Jared Kushner’s idiotic LIE about Mueller’s investigation doing more damage to democracy than Russia as if it is some kind of Ultimate Truth that may not be questioned.

Because anything a Republican said is automatically gospel truth unless absolutely disproven, according to our media mavens these days.

108
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:56:56am

re: #85 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Nor do many appreciate what they contribute in payroll taxes and Social Security (for which they have no legal claim)

I do have to say — based on family personal experience with caregivers — many are paid under the table — no Social Security, no federal taxes. Obviously they do pay sales taxes.

109
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:57:37am

re: #105 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Because our immigration and naturalization system is such a clusterfuck it breeds issues like that.

If we can reform that, then birthright citizenship is a non-issue.

NB: I live in a country where nationality was determined by the nationality of the Father until 200. That means that my oldest daughter was born in Germany but not German.

The law was amended in 2000 to allow birthright for all children born to legal residents. So her siblings were born German, and the oldest daughter was given a chance to apply retroactively.

But that is serious apples and oranges, there is no comparing the situation here and the one between the US & Mexico.

It only has become an issue because people like Trump, Ann Coulter, and nativists on the far right made it an issue. And frankly what works in Germany doesn’t necessarily work here. Again, why change what’s worked? By denying birthright citizenship, you are going to create thousands of children who will feel like a permanent other in their home. And frankly that’s been alot of the failure of European immigration practices.

110
Decatur Deb  Apr 24, 2019 • 6:58:32am

re: #108 Hecuba’s daughter

I do have to say — based on family personal experience with caregivers — many are paid under the table — no Social Security, no federal taxes. Obviously they do pay sales taxes.

That’s expected to be true regardless of nationality.

111
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:01:25am

re: #110 Decatur Deb

That’s expected to be true regardless of nationality.

There should be a Universal Basic Income floor for anyone over 65 (or 63 or whatever) who lives in the richest country in the world, or whatever level we’ve fallen to.

112
makeitstop  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:01:36am

re: #105 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Because our immigration and naturalization system is such a clusterfuck it breeds issues like that.

Nope. Couldn’t disagree more.

It’s only an issue because these sons of bitches floated the idea again and again until it’s become something that ‘rational’ people see as worth debating.

As Happy pointed out, it’s been accepted since the end of the 19th Century.

And as K pointed out, it’s only up for debate because of panic-mongering by the Right.

It’s chipping away at the edges of democracy like this that is eventually going to kill this country. I fucking refuse to give an inch on this.

113
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:02:44am

re: #110 Decatur Deb

That’s expected to be true regardless of nationality.

True — but there are few Americans who are willing to do certain jobs for the salary or the conditions that are being offered: most Americans are not enthusiastic about working 24 hour days several days every week.

114
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:03:14am

re: #112 makeitstop

Nope. Couldn’t disagree more.

It’s only an issue because these sons of bitches floated the idea again and again until it’s become something that ‘rational’ people see as worth debating.

As Happy pointed out, it’s been accepted since the end of the 19th Century.

And as K pointed out, it’s only up for debate because of panic-mongering by the Right.

It’s chipping away at the edges of democracy like this that is eventually going to kill this country. I fucking refuse to give an inch on this.

Yep. It’s 121 year old precedent, is an issue because of panic mongering, and once again it works.

115
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:04:42am

We’re getting into Bernie Sanders territory of “Those immigrants are stealing our jobs” territory. And frankly I really don’t want to go there because all of our ancestors were once accused of stealing someone else’s job at one point. You pride yourself as a land of opportunity and damn straight people are going to want to come here and you know what, I welcome every last one of them.

116
Decatur Deb  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:04:46am

re: #111 wrenchwench

There should be a Universal Basic Income floor for anyone over 65 (or 63 or whatever) who lives in the richest country in the world, or whatever level we’ve fallen to.

18.

117
Dave In Austin  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:05:07am
118
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:05:20am

re: #112 makeitstop

I fucking refuse to give an inch on this.

Me too. And I’m done with breakfast.

119
Citizen K  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:05:26am

re: #105 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Because our immigration and naturalization system is such a clusterfuck it breeds issues like that.

If we can reform that, then birthright citizenship is a non-issue.

NB: I live in a country where nationality was determined by the nationality of the Father until 200. That means that my oldest daughter was born in Germany but not German.

The law was amended in 2000 to allow birthright for all children born to legal residents. So her siblings were born German, and the oldest daughter was given a chance to apply retroactively.

But that is serious apples and oranges, there is no comparing the situation here and the one between the US & Mexico.

Then focus on reforming that. Making a compromise on birthright citizenship basically just gives concession to the idea that there are some weird, threatening invasive forces trying to take advantage of us with evil sleeper cell Anchor Babies. Especially considering the ‘Anchor Baby’ panic is so unevenly done with an obvious racist bent. You have a literal industry of rich Russians having timeshares so they can have their children in the US for dual citizenship, but all the panic is over ‘ILLEEEEEEGALLS’ crawling over the border to breed us out or some paranoid shit. Which is conflated with hispanic families who have been in the US for generations because the border jumped THEM back in the 19th century.

Between US interference in Latin America that’s kept things destabilized and an labyrinthine immigration system that’s being tilted even more toward the rich and well connected, birthright citizenship is the only thing about the system that works without prejudice, and prevents the creation of stateless children, as well as punishing children for the ‘Sins of the Father’ as it were, something. And especially since immigration and asylumship has been trending downward, the sheer paranoid panic of invasive brown folks trying to cheat the system for citizenship is the ultimate distraction. Making that a concession you’re willing to make is validating the fears about ‘scary brown border jumpers’.

120
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:07:31am

re: #115 HappyWarrior

We’re getting into Bernie Sanders territory of “Those immigrants are stealing our jobs” territory. And frankly I really don’t want to go there because all of our ancestors were once accused of stealing someone else’s job at one point. You pride yourself as a land of opportunity and damn straight people are going to want to come here and you know what, I welcome every last one of them.

They are driving down wages, but that is also because they are easily exploited and not about to turn to any authorities for redress.

What would agriculture, food service, domestic services, gardening and construction look like in this country without undocumenteds doing the grunt work for sub-minimum wages without benefits?

121
wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:07:41am

Birthright citizenship made my mother and her brothers American citizens automatically, though their parents were both immigrants. Grandpa did not get naturalized till nearly a decade after mom (the youngest) was born. Grandma died before she had the chance.

Birthright citizenship is non-negotiable for me. If you were born in the USA or its territories, you are a US citizen. Period. I don’t care about the circumstances of that birth. The child cannot choose how, when or where he or she is born.

122
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:08:28am

The dirty secret that Trump won’t ever tell his base that most undocumented people aren’t illegal border jumpers but people who have overstayed visas. Trump, the right, and frankly some lefties like Bernie have a cartoonish view of the reality of 21st century immigration in this country.

123
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:10:08am

re: #120 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

They are driving down wages, but that is also because they are easily exploited and not about to turn to any authorities for redress.

What would agriculture, food service, domestic services, gardening and construction look like in this country without undocumenteds doing the grunt work for sub-minimum wages without benefits?

You’re proving my point. But here’s another thing. Minimum wage here is quite a ways up from what many people had before. Trump wondered why we aren’t getting Norweigans. The median income in Norway is close to if not higher than ours. So they really have no incentive to come here. People in other places especially places where there are very hierarchical structures don’t have that.

124
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:10:55am

re: #119 Citizen K

You have a literal industry of rich Russians having timeshares so they can have their children in the US for dual citizenship,

That issue bothers me more than undocumented workers or asylum seekers from Central America.

125
mmmirele  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:11:30am

Steve King (Repugnant-Iowa) thinks he’s being persecuted like Jesus.

washingtonpost.com

Jesus save us from your professional followers!

126
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:12:13am

re: #121 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

Birthright citizenship made my mother and her brothers American citizens automatically, though their parents were both immigrants. Grandpa did not naturalized till nearly a decade after mom (the youngest) was born. Grandma died before she had the chance.

Birthright citizenship is non-negotiable for me. If you were born in the USA or its territories, you are a US citizen. Period. I don’t care about the circumstances of that birth. The child cannot choose how, when or where he or she is born.

Uncle Stan was born the year my Great Grandparents arrived. Uncle Stan enlisted in the United States Army when Charles Lindburgh was blaming criticism of the Nazis on the Jews. Birthright citizens make Americans. Our country on paper has always been about an idea rather than an ethnicity, or religion. That is the beauty of America.

127
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:12:36am

re: #125 mmmirele

Steve King (Repugnant-Iowa) thinks he’s being persecuted like Jesus.

washingtonpost.com

Jesus save us from your professional followers!

Now imagine if a Dem said that and how the religious right would react.

128
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:13:19am

re: #127 HappyWarrior

Now imagine if a Dem said that and how the religious right would react.

It would be a lie because God hate Democrats.

/

129
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:14:36am

re: #125 mmmirele

Steve King (Repugnant-Iowa) thinks he’s being persecuted like Jesus.

washingtonpost.com

Jesus save us from your professional followers!

Nail him to a cross.

130
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:15:21am

re: #129 The Vicious Babushka

Nail him to a cross.

a St Andrew’s Cross

131
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:15:24am

re: #124 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

That issue bothers me more than undocumented workers or asylum seekers from Central America.

Unless Trump properties can handle a few thousand births a day, it’s not going to make a dent in our system. I’m far more concerned about the consequences of a kid born here, living here for 18 years, and then told they’re not a citizen because they’re parents weren’t.

132
Citizen K  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:16:09am

re: #124 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

That issue bothers me more than undocumented workers or asylum seekers from Central America.

As a concept, it’s still not something I’m freaking out about, even if it’s tacky as shit. It’s just a bullet point of ‘Rich Russians Buying American Influence’ shit that makes it remotely worrisome. Belafon basically has it right too regarding the impact:

re: #131 Belafon

Unless Trump properties can handle a few thousand births a day, it’s not going to make a dent in our system. I’m far more concerned about the consequences of a kid born here, living here for 18 years, and then told they’re not a citizen because they’re parents weren’t.

It’s not a crazy worry because again, it’s not a matter of volume or overwhelming the system or anything systematic that’s worth freaking out about, definitely not in the same way you have a generation of basically lost children who are treated as aliens in the only country they every truly remember.

133
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:16:59am

re: #132 Citizen K

As a concept, it’s still not something I’m freaking out about, even if it’s tacky as shit. It’s just a bullet point of ‘Rich Russians Buying American Influence’ shit that makes it remotely worrisome.

It’s the double standard.

134
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:17:21am

JFC

135
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:18:05am

re: #120 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

They are driving down wages, but that is also because they are easily exploited and not about to turn to any authorities for redress.

What would agriculture, food service, domestic services, gardening and construction look like in this country without undocumenteds doing the grunt work for sub-minimum wages without benefits?

‘They’ are not driving down wages. Employers are not raising wages enough to hire anyone at a legal wage, let alone a wage that can be lived on. If wages went up, consumer spending would go up, the economy would improve.

136
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:18:05am

re: #134 The Vicious Babushka

JFC

[Embedded content]

Sounds like someone we know.

137
ObserverArt  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:20:19am

re: #72 HappyWarrior

I am among the 77%.

That is a stupid article. We don’t even have all of the candidates in yet and we have like 17 already. We have no idea how any of this will play out but oh my god 77% of people are still undecided.

Talk about not having a clue.

138
wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:20:37am

re: #119 Citizen K

Chinese with enough money are also taking advantage of “birth tourism.” Expectant mothers conceal their pregnancies, stay in the USA till term and covertly give birth. Then they usually go back home with their wee ones. The game plan is for the kid to apply for US citizenship at age 18, benefit from lower costs of college education (citizens can get financial aid that non-citizens cannot), and in time apply for their parents and siblings to obtain visas and green cards. Coincidentally, having a child in the States also provides parents with a quasi-legitimate reason for expatriating lots of yuan.

139
Citizen K  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:20:42am

re: #133 HappyWarrior

It’s the double standard.

It’s why all the outrage is about those scary swarms at the border, rather than the millions of visa overstayees. That kinda thing just isn’t sexy, and also might sweep up the ‘right’ kind of immigrants (you know, the kind are rich and white) by comparison.

140
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:21:13am

re: #135 wrenchwench

‘They’ are not driving down wages. Employers are not raising wages enough to hire anyone at a legal wage, let alone a wage that can be lived on. If wages went up, consumer spending would go up, the economy would improve.

Employers take advantage of the fact that our wage floor is high relative to where they’re coming from. People get mad at the wrong party. And this is why I don’t like Sanders because he blames the immigrants too.

141
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:21:48am

re: #139 Citizen K

It’s why all the outrage is about those scary swarms at the border, rather than the millions of visa overstayees. That kinda thing just isn’t sexy, and also might sweep up the ‘right’ kind of immigrants (you know, the kind are rich and white) by comparison.

People like NRO’s old white supremacist Brit John Derbyshire.

142
ObserverArt  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:26:24am

re: #73 makeitstop

Another Republican calls for impeachment.

[Embedded content]

I know it’s sort of the fashion here to dismiss these calls, but I think that these announcements are important.

I would never dismiss them. This is how it all works. People like Gerson have connections in the party, this tells me there is impeachment discussion going on. Soon that works its way to Congress members and they start to think about what that means to their political life.

If played right by the Democrats, as in a steady release of info from Mueller’s reports, interviews with Mueller and maybe some of his staff, more trial info, maybe some indictments against Trump family members, etc. it will be tough to deny.

And to make it even more clear…Trump will resist and block and obstruct the whole time.

143
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:27:00am

re: #137 ObserverArt

That is a stupid article. We don’t even have all of the candidates in yet and we have like 17 already. We have no idea how any of this will play out but oh my god 77% of people are still undecided.

Talk about not having a clue.

I looked it as “Quit fretting right now over the Democrats are going to tear each other apart by picking the wrong candidate.” Most people havent’ decided on Bernie, Joe, Beto, Pete, Liz, Kamala, Amy, or any of the others.

144
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:27:48am
145
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:28:25am

re: #143 Belafon

I looked it as “Quit fretting right now over the Democrats are going to tear each other apart by picking the wrong candidate.” Most people havent’ decided on Bernie, Joe, Beto, Pete, Liz, Kamala, Amy, or any of the others.

That’s how I read it too.

146
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:29:07am

re: #144 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

I don’t trust The Intercept at all. Not fond of Jacobin either.

147
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:31:27am

It’s never too early to pull out the ‘Dems in disarray’ headlines. I think they were never put away after the last presidential primary. Bernie owns the biggest banner.

148
ObserverArt  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:32:06am

re: #94 wrenchwench

I’m halfway through breakfast…

The tension is building…

149
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:34:00am

re: #147 wrenchwench

It’s never too early to pull out the ‘Dems in disarray’ headlines. I think they were never put away after the last presidential primary. Bernie owns the biggest banner.

What we can’t do is let the Berners control the narrative of what is and isn’t progressive. I’m not going to let them claim I’m a faux progressive because I don’t think Bernie is all that and like the idea of an even older guy than Trump as President who engages in the same practices.

150
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:34:56am

re: #148 ObserverArt

The tension is building…

My downding finger is getting itchy…

I think I’ll take a break. Put on some downdinging music.

151
William Lewis  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:37:36am

re: #116 Decatur Deb

18.

Even Nixon & Milton Friedman thought so…

152
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:37:40am

re: #150 wrenchwench

My downding finger is getting itchy…

I think I’ll take a break. Put on some downdinging music.

I didn’t downding but I’m loathe to throw away 121 years of precedent because of an issue that an anti immigration hardliners have made an issue.

153
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:37:53am

re: #151 William Lewis

Even Nixon & Milton Friedman thought so…

Those Commies.//

154
Dave In Austin  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:40:10am

25th Amendment

155
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:42:52am

re: #131 Belafon

Unless Trump properties can handle a few thousand births a day, it’s not going to make a dent in our system. I’m far more concerned about the consequences of a kid born here, living here for 18 years, and then told they’re not a citizen because they’re parents weren’t.

In such a case, the child should be allowed to apply for citizenship or at least permanent residence, but I will drop the issue. Do not want to ruin anyone else’s breakfast.

156
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:44:27am

re: #135 wrenchwench

‘They’ are not driving down wages. Employers are not raising wages enough to hire anyone at a legal wage, let alone a wage that can be lived on. If wages went up, consumer spending would go up, the economy would improve.

A large body of workers with no ability to approach authorities about abuses and substandard wages or working conditions is going to drive down wages. But that is a part of a much larger problem.

157
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:45:11am

re: #156 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

A large body of workers with no ability to approach authorities about abuses and substandard wages or working conditions is going to drive down wages. But that is a part of a much larger problem.

Yeah- cheap assholes like Trump. That’s the issue.

158
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:45:18am

re: #140 HappyWarrior

Employers take advantage of the fact that our wage floor is high relative to where they’re coming from. People get mad at the wrong party. And this is why I don’t like Sanders because he blames the immigrants too.

It is irrelevant to blame the workers when the employers are violating the law.

159
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:45:58am

re: #157 HappyWarrior

Yeah- cheap assholes like Trump. That’s the issue.

He is a classic case.

160
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:45:59am

re: #158 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

It is irrelevant to blame the workers when the employers are violating the law.

Yet politicians & talking heads do and will continue to do so.

161
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:46:13am

re: #159 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

He is a classic case.

I’d argue typical.

162
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:46:58am

re: #161 HappyWarrior

I’d argue typical.

wherever there are drinks to be served and greens to be tended, there will be undocumented workers doing it…

163
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:47:41am

re: #152 HappyWarrior

I didn’t downding but I’m loathe to throw away 121 years of precedent because of an issue that an anti immigration hardliners have made an issue.

Birthright citizenship is enshrined in US law and is precedent for a reason.

The white nationalists and xenophobes have spent decades trying to roll back birthright citizenship because they not only see it as a threat to their primacy, but now have a white supremacist in the WH who is actively subverting the rule of law and putting judges in place who will roll back civil and voting rights for minorities and women. They are also laying the foundations to take on birthright citizenship and eliminate its protection under the law.

Let’s not forget that Trump rejected a deal to fund his boondoggle wall and do more on an immigration package but rejected it out of hand without so much as a counter offer last year. Trump then turned around to claim a crisis existed at the border despite crossings being at multidecade lows and apprehensions also at or near multidecade lows.

The argument he’s making has nothing to do with there being a crisis and everything to do with ending immigration for nonwhites - legal or otherwise. We’re seeing it with his evil treatment towards those seeking asylum, which is legal immigration, and he’s trying to institute the same kinds of racist policies that we saw for decades and which kept Jews out of the US in the 1930s-1950s right down to the language being used - disease ridden, criminals, etc.

Trump’s a goddamned racist and the policies he’s pushing are overtly white nationalist.

There’s no reason to put birthright citizenship at issue here - not even as a bargaining chip. Hold the line. Trump gets nothing. The GOP gets nothing.

164
BlueSpotinAL  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:48:00am

re: #135 wrenchwench

‘They’ are not driving down wages. Employers are not raising wages enough to hire anyone at a legal wage, let alone a wage that can be lived on. If wages went up, consumer spending would go up, the economy would improve.

This study (on immigrants as a whole, not just undocumented) concludes the effect on wages was small. I was surprised actually, one would assume exploitation of undocumented immigrants (paid less under the table, many by hypocritical Trumpers, no less!) would depress wages.

cato.org

Question: Has Trump’s reduction in immigration, and the reduction in immigration in general from Mexico (because of improving conditions there) raised wages here?

165
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:48:55am

re: #163 lawhawk

Birthright citizenship is enshrined in US law and is precedent for a reason.

The white nationalists and xenophobes have spent decades trying to roll back birthright citizenship because they not only see it as a threat to their primacy, but now have a white supremacist in the WH who is actively subverting the rule of law and putting judges in place who will roll back civil and voting rights for minorities and women. They are also laying the foundations to take on birthright citizenship and eliminate its protection under the law.

Let’s not forget that Trump rejected a deal to fund his boondoggle wall and do more on an immigration package but rejected it out of hand without so much as a counter offer last year. Trump then turned around to claim a crisis existed at the border despite crossings being at multidecade lows and apprehensions also at or near multidecade lows.

The argument he’s making has nothing to do with there being a crisis and everything to do with ending immigration for nonwhites - legal or otherwise. We’re seeing it with his evil treatment towards those seeking asylum, which is legal immigration, and he’s trying to institute the same kinds of racist policies that we saw for decades and which kept Jews out of the US in the 1930s-1950s right down to the language being used - disease ridden, criminals, etc.

Trump’s a goddamned racist and the policies he’s pushing are overtly white nationalist.

There’s no reason to put birthright citizenship at issue here - not even as a bargaining chip. Hold the line. Trump gets nothing. The GOP gets nothing.

Agreed.

166
Jay C  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:49:34am

re: #158 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

It is irrelevant to blame the workers when the employers are violating the law.

Not when it’s the employers, rather than the employees, who are:
1. Voters.
2. Donors.

167
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:55:01am

re: #166 Jay C

Not when it’s the employers, rather than the employees, who are:
1. Voters.
2. Donors.

and again, whole industries depend on masses of underpaid, easily exploited labor to generate the profits they use to donate to candidates who will ensure that they do not have to change their business model while at the same time ranting and raving against an “invasion” that is somehow threatening our national existence.

168
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:56:31am

The President of the United States is openly threatening Mexico on social media…

169
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:57:40am

re: #73 makeitstop

Another Republican calls for impeachment.

[Embedded content]

I know it’s sort of the fashion here to dismiss these calls, but I think that these announcements are important.

I did dismiss Verret yesterday. But unlike him, Gerson is someone who I’ve heard of and who has some prominence. His call for impeachment may have some impact

170
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 7:58:19am

re: #168 Eclectic Cyborg

Mexico’s Soldiers recently pulled guns on our National Guard Soldiers, probably as a diversionary tactic for drug smugglers on the Border. Better not happen again! We are now sending ARMED SOLDIERS to the Border. Mexico is not doing nearly enough in apprehending & returning!

what the fuck is he on about? was there some border incident involving drawn guns?

171
Dave In Austin  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:02:15am

re: #170 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

what the fuck is he on about? was there some border incident involving drawn guns?

25th Amendment
He’s fucking crazy

172
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:02:48am

re: #168 Eclectic Cyborg

The President of the United States is openly threatening Mexico on social media…

[Embedded content]

And all these dumbasses who continue to insist he was more of a dove than HRC will say notta a damn thing.

173
ObserverArt  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:04:28am

re: #169 Hecuba’s daughter

I did dismiss Verret yesterday. But unlike him, Gerson is someone who I’ve heard of and who has some prominence. His call for impeachment may have some impact

Verret was on Trump’s transition staff and was also part of Mitt Romney’s too. I’d say that makes him a Republican in good standing since he made it to Republican presidential campaign transition teams.

I bet many Republicans know who he is. And that counts.

174
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:08:41am

re: #170 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

what the fuck is he on about? was there some border incident involving drawn guns?

No National Guard on the NM border (Gov. Lujan Grisham pulled them), and the only guns drawn were by Americans on this side. I believe CA also pulled the NG off the border.

175
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:09:39am

re: #170 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

what the fuck is he on about? was there some border incident involving drawn guns?

About two weeks ago there was an incident involving US and Mexican troops:

The tweet comes after an incident on April 13 in which two active-duty U.S. soldiers involved in the Defense Department’s mission to provide camera surveillance at the border were briefly detained and disarmed on U.S. soil, U.S. military officials said.

Navy Capt. Pamela Kunze, a U.S. military spokeswoman, said in an email that five to six Mexican military members approached and questioned the U.S. soldiers, who were conducting border support operations near Clint, Tex., in an unmarked vehicle owned by Customs and Border Protection.

“An inquiry by CBP and DOD revealed that the Mexican military members mistakenly believed the U.S. Army soldiers were south of the border with Mexico,” Kunze wrote. “However, the U.S. soldiers were appropriately in U.S. territory. Though they were south of the border fence, U.S. soldiers remained in U.S. territory, north of the actual border.”

Because of course the existing border fence is stupidly well north of the actual fucking border.

176
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:13:55am

re: #143 Belafon

I looked it as “Quit fretting right now over the Democrats are going to tear each other apart by picking the wrong candidate.” Most people havent’ decided on Bernie, Joe, Beto, Pete, Liz, Kamala, Amy, or any of the others.

When the Republicans had 17 candidates, they ended up with Trump, the candidate with the fewest qualifications and the worst temperament. When Chicago faced 14 candidates for mayor this year, the finalists for the general election received 17.5% and 16% in the primary, well less than 50%. Basically 2/3 of primary voters preferred someone else Fortunately for Chicago, both women were highly qualified, but whenever there are too many candidates, anything is possible — especially if there isn’t at least a runoff to reach 50%. The worst can win if voting is too fragmented.

Let’s hope the Democrats are wiser than the Republicans. Certainly our candidates (with the exception of Bernie, Tulsi, and Williamson) are far superior to almost all presented to the Republicans.

177
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:15:37am

re: #175 KGxvi

About two weeks ago there was an incident involving US and Mexican troops:

Because of course the existing border fence is stupidly well north of the actual fucking border.

Actually, that’s not true.

The US-Mexico border for a significant portion of the nearly 2,000 miles is the centerline of the Rio Grande River. Therefore, any actual border fence on the US side would have to be inland from the river. Considering that the Rio Grande often sees low water flows, it’s possible to be confused by the actual border demarcation when there’s no actual landmark to go by other than a fence that is inland from the centerline of a waterway that can be ephemeral.

178
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:15:41am

re: #176 Hecuba’s daughter

Let’s hope the Democrats are wiser than the Republicans. Certainly our candidates (with the exception of Bernie, Tulsi, and Williamson) are far superior to almost all presented to the Republicans.

If Trump runs unopposed, then the GOP can devote its full energies to ratfucking, trolling, misinformation and manipulating the outcome of the DNC primaries. With a little help from their friends, of course…

179
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:17:41am

re: #176 Hecuba’s daughter

When the Republicans had 17 candidates, they ended up with Trump, the candidate with the fewest qualifications and the worst temperament. When Chicago faced 14 candidates for mayor this year, the finalists for the general election received 17.5% and 16% in the primary, well less than 50%. Basically 2/3 of primary voters preferred someone else Fortunately for Chicago, both women were highly qualified, but whenever there are too many candidates, anything is possible — especially if there isn’t at least a runoff to reach 50%. The worst can win if voting is too fragmented.

Let’s hope the Democrats are wiser than the Republicans. Certainly our candidates (with the exception of Bernie, Tulsi, and Williamson) are far superior to almost all presented to the Republicans.

I’m thinking the Dem field will narrow by Fall and Winter.

180
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:19:27am

re: #178 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

If Trump runs unopposed, then the GOP can devote its full energies to ratfucking, trolling, misinformation and manipulating the outcome of the DNC primaries. With a little help from their friends, of course…

He’s not unopposed. Weld is running and I wouldn’t be surprised if Larry Hogan or John Kasich run either. You worry too damn much.

181
Eventual Carrion  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:19:37am

re: #51 Dave In Austin

Goats kill the ground they graze on….

That is why the local farmers around use them along their electric fences. They take the foliage down to the root and it is quite a while before it will grow up again.

182
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:20:13am

re: #178 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

If Trump runs unopposed, then the GOP can devote its full energies to ratfucking, trolling, misinformation and manipulating the outcome of the DNC primaries. With a little help from their friends, of course…

That is 100% accurate. That’s why I hate open primaries: it allows malicious actors to vote for the candidate they think will lose.

183
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:20:45am

re: #180 HappyWarrior

He’s not unopposed. Weld is running and I wouldn’t be surprised if Larry Hogan or John Kasich run either. You worry too damn much.

I cannot imagine that the GOP base can be pried away from DT in any case.

184
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:20:58am

re: #177 lawhawk

Actually, that’s not true.

The US-Mexico border for a significant portion of the nearly 2,000 miles is the centerline of the Rio Grande River. Therefore, any actual border fence on the US side would have to be inland from the river. Considering that the Rio Grande often sees low water flows, it’s possible to be confused by the actual border demarcation when there’s no actual landmark to go by other than a fence that is inland from the centerline of a waterway that can be ephemeral.

Near Clint, according to Google Map, the US border is a little south of the Rio Grande.

185
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:21:19am

re: #182 Hecuba’s daughter

That is 100% accurate. That’s why I hate open primaries: it allows malicious actors to vote for the candidate they think will lose.

Fortunately since 2016 there are more closed primaries and primaries than caucus. I don’t think any state switched from closed to open or from primary to caucus.

186
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:21:53am

re: #184 Belafon

Near Clint, according to Google Map, the US border is a little south of the Rio Grande.

Rivers are like two-year-olds, they don’t like to stay in their beds too long…

187
Jay C  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:22:10am

re: #175 KGxvi

About two weeks ago there was an incident involving US and Mexican troops:

The tweet comes after an incident on April 13 in which two active-duty U.S. soldiers involved in the Defense Department’s mission to provide camera surveillance at the border were briefly detained and disarmed on U.S. soil, U.S. military officials said.

Navy Capt. Pamela Kunze, a U.S. military spokeswoman, said in an email that five to six Mexican military members approached and questioned the U.S. soldiers, who were conducting border support operations near Clint, Tex., in an unmarked vehicle owned by Customs and Border Protection.

“An inquiry by CBP and DOD revealed that the Mexican military members mistakenly believed the U.S. Army soldiers were south of the border with Mexico,” Kunze wrote. “However, the U.S. soldiers were appropriately in U.S. territory. Though they were south of the border fence, U.S. soldiers remained in U.S. territory, north of the actual border.”

So IOW, what has to be a fairly routine (or at the least, not unusual or unheard-of) “confrontation” on the poorly-demarcated border, which was resolved (AFACBD) without incident. Yet our Cretin-in-Chief tweets about it like it was a replay of the Battle of Columbus. With no clarification, still less pushback, and even less accuracy.

Moron.

188
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:22:24am

re: #183 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I cannot imagine that the GOP base can be pried away from DT in any case.

You said unopposed. Of course Weld’s not going to win. There hasn’t been a President primaried in a long time but if Weld or whomever can prevent Trump from being unanimously renominated, that’s a small victory and a huge bruise to his gigantic ego. Again, I think you’re living in the wreckage of the future.

189
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:23:09am

re: #185 HappyWarrior

Fortunately since 2016 there are more closed primaries and primaries than caucus. I don’t think any state switched from closed to open or from primary to caucus.

Texas has an open primary, but, if there’s a runoff, you cannot switch then. The only person I personally know who switched parties to mess things up was a Democrat who thought it would be helpful to have Trump as the opponent.

190
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:23:44am

re: #177 lawhawk

Actually, that’s not true.

The US-Mexico border for a significant portion of the nearly 2,000 miles is the centerline of the Rio Grande River. Therefore, any actual border fence on the US side would have to be inland from the river. Considering that the Rio Grande often sees low water flows, it’s possible to be confused by the actual border demarcation when there’s no actual landmark to go by other than a fence that is inland from the centerline of a waterway that can be ephemeral.

From what I remember, when GWB tried building his fence, they ran into all sorts of eminent domain issues, along with geography problems, so there’s basically half a town in Texas that is south of the border fence.

191
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:24:21am

re: #189 Belafon

Texas has an open primary, but, if there’s a runoff, you cannot switch then. The only person I personally know who switched parties to mess things up was a Democrat who thought it would be helpful to have Trump as the opponent.

Also, the Open Primaries didn’t always benefit Bernie. Florida and Virginia have them and HRC kicked Bernie’s ass here and there. I just think we’re worrying too much.

192
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:24:25am

JFC this MF has to go.

193
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:24:34am

re: #184 Belafon

Near Clint, according to Google Map, the US border is a little south of the Rio Grande.

Damn rivers won’t hold still.

Oh, wait. The dammed ones do.

194
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:24:59am

re: #192 The Vicious Babushka

JFC this MF has to go.

[Embedded content]

Basically investigate everyone but meeeeeeeeeee. Fucking Stalin cosplayer.

195
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:25:00am

re: #187 Jay C

It was the Second Bowling Green Massacre.

196
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:25:05am

re: #184 Belafon

Near Clint, according to Google Map, the US border is a little south of the Rio Grande.

And I get it backwards, after zooming in. the (el) Rio is actually all in Mexico there, and just a little land north of it. As Wendell said, it’s river.

197
ObserverArt  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:25:13am

re: #178 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

If Trump runs unopposed, then the GOP can devote its full energies to ratfucking, trolling, misinformation and manipulating the outcome of the DNC primaries. With a little help from their friends, of course…

He is not unopposed. Bill Weld is running against him, maybe Romney too.

I think we’ve been over this…here is Weld’s campaign website.

Bill Weld for President 2020/

198
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:26:23am

re: #189 Belafon

Texas has an open primary, but, if there’s a runoff, you cannot switch then. The only person I personally know who switched parties to mess things up was a Democrat who thought it would be helpful to have Trump as the opponent.

I even registered Republican once to vote for Evan Mecham in the Arizona gubernatorial primary as he seemed the candidate least likely to gain a majority.

Well, it seems that there was a rift among the Democrats, one of them split off and ran as an Independent, and Mecham went on to win without a majority (AZ has since changed the law to require a runoff election in such cases)

Evan Mecham went on to be a major embarrassment to the state as Governor and resigned from office to avoid impeachment.

That was the last time I ever tried to play Machiavellian…

199
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:26:29am

re: #190 KGxvi

John Oliver had a segment a year or two ago about the issue. Americans would have to cross via a port of entry to access their property along the border, because the fence is inland from the actual border.

200
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:27:09am

re: #197 ObserverArt

He is not unopposed. Bill Weld is running against him, maybe Romney too.

I think we’ve been over this…here is Weld’s campaign website.

Bill Weld for President 2020/

Larry Hogan, governor of Maryland hasn’t ruled it out yet either. He’s a popular two term governor who increased his victory margin in a very Democratic state in a very Democratic year. If the GOP weren’t full of stupid know-nothing idiots, he would be a perfect candidate for them in the years to come. He’s one of the few Republicans I have seen that isn’t an outright asshole to minorities.

201
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:27:17am

re: #189 Belafon

Texas has an open primary, but, if there’s a runoff, you cannot switch then. The only person I personally know who switched parties to mess things up was a Democrat who thought it would be helpful to have Trump as the opponent.

Bruce Bartlett is a true old-fashioned conservative Republican who hated the modern Republican Party and voted for Trump, thinking that would teach the Republicans a lesson. Unfortunately, as he and the rest of us discovered, it is our nation that is being taught a dire lesson. It is certainly possible that we will learn from this error and emerge a stronger, more equitable country — but I wouldn’t bet my life on that outcome.

202
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:27:47am

re: #192 The Vicious Babushka

“Now, if you want to litigate, go after the DNC, crooked Hillary, the dirty cops, all of these things,” Trump said before leaving to Atlanta. “That’s what should be litigated.”

Doesn’t “litigation” apply only to civil cases?

203
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:28:12am

I just don’t get the cynicism. Some of y’all need to look at this. Trump is polling below 50% consistently. I’m not saying to take that victory lap but have some confidence.

204
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:28:41am

re: #202 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Doesn’t “litigation” apply only to civil cases?

corporate.findlaw.com
No.

205
Teukka  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:30:38am

So this happened…

206
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:30:40am

I can’t say I’m surprised.

207
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:31:33am

re: #206 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

I can’t say I’m surprised.

So do child rapists, Matt. I don’t condone it but that guy’s a scumbag. He deserved to be arrested.

208
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:31:35am

re: #196 Belafon

And I get it backwards, after zooming in. the (el) Rio is actually all in Mexico there, and just a little land north of it. As Wendell said, it’s river.

It’s El Rio Bravo (del Norte) when it’s in Mexico, then magically turns back into the Rio Grande when it’s in the US.

209
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:32:02am

re: #205 Teukka

So this happened…

[Embedded content]

Yeah I saw that. Steve King is such a retrograde piece of shit.

210
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:32:39am

re: #191 HappyWarrior

Also, the Open Primaries didn’t always benefit Bernie. Florida and Virginia have them and HRC kicked Bernie’s ass here and there. I just think we’re worrying too much.

Yes — but in 2016, there was no reason for Republicans to vote in the Democratic primary because there was such a lively race in their primary. In 2020, that probably won’t be true, unless, of course, Trump is forced to an early exit and Pence leads the ticket.

211
ObserverArt  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:32:56am

re: #203 HappyWarrior

I just don’t get the cynicism. Some of y’all need to look at this. Trump is polling below 50% consistently. I’m not saying to take that victory lap but have some confidence.

Happy…remember the takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon by the Bundy’s?

Remember many complaining that Obama and the Feds weren’t doing anything and it was going to lead to more groups like the Bundy gang to take over more Fed lands and we would face that problem forever, etc.

How long ago was that? How many such incidents have happened since?

212
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:34:01am

re: #206 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

I can’t say I’m surprised.

Que pobrecito…

213
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:34:17am

re: #210 Hecuba’s daughter

Yes — but in 2016, there was no reason for Republicans to vote in the Democratic primary because there was such a lively race in their primary. In 2020, that probably won’t be true, unless, of course, Trump is forced to an early exit and Pence leads the ticket.

I just don’t think Republicans are going to waste their time trying to piss in our water that much. I’m sorry but that just reeks of the same paranoia that Soros operatives make Republicans look bad by doing acts of violence. And frankly it could backfire on them too. Limbaugh tried encouraging people to do it to get Obama nominated and it backfired bigly. Again eyes on the prize.

214
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:34:55am

re: #211 ObserverArt

Happy…remember the takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon by the Bundy’s?

Remember many complaining that Obama and the Feds weren’t doing anything and it was going to lead to more groups like the Bundy gang to take over more Fed lands and we would face that problem forever, etc.

How long ago was that? How many such incidents have happened since?

I just think so much cynicism is wholly unnecessary.

215
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:36:24am

re: #203 HappyWarrior

The new mayor of Chicago received 17.5% in the primary — and possibly most voters hadn’t even heard of her. And Trump won election with well less than 50%. I won’t feel optimism until the election is over and we’ve actually won the Presidency and hopefully both Houses of Congress.

216
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:37:31am

re: #213 HappyWarrior

I just don’t think Republicans are going to waste their time trying to piss in our water that much. I’m sorry but that just reeks of the same paranoia that Soros operatives make Republicans look bad by doing acts of violence. And frankly it could backfire on them too. Limbaugh tried encouraging people to do it to get Obama nominated and it backfired bigly. Again eyes on the prize.

I’ve not seen much evidence that there’s ever any cross-over like this. Even in Limbaugh’s “operation chaos” I don’t think the exit polls showed more than like 2% cross over. Republicans tend to vote in Republican primaries and Democrats tend to vote in Democratic primaries.

217
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:38:17am

re: #215 Hecuba’s daughter

The new mayor of Chicago received 17.5% in the primary — and possibly most voters hadn’t even heard of her. And Trump won election with well less than 50%. I won’t feel optimism until the election is over and we’ve actually won the Presidency and hopefully both Houses of Congress.

I’m not saying don’t take your eyes off the prize. I’m saying try to look at the positives we have: We have a historically unpopular President who isn’t going to raise his popularity ceiling and people motivated to remove him. And frankly a mayoral race is different than the Presidency. The candidates who don’t have a chance will swallow their pride by the time we hit Primary season. I’m sorry. I just can’t look at this so cynically. We can’t live in fear.

218
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:39:02am

re: #216 KGxvi

I’ve not seen much evidence that there’s ever any cross-over like this. Even in Limbaugh’s “operation chaos” I don’t think the exit polls showed more than like 2% cross over. Republicans tend to vote in Republican primaries and Democrats tend to vote in Democratic primaries.

Yeah I think a lot of people joke about wanting to piss in the pool but it rarely happens.

219
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:40:03am

re: #214 HappyWarrior

I just think so much cynicism is wholly unnecessary.

The cynicism must be properly applied. To connect Malheur to what’s happening at the border is not the proper application. To connect what’s going on at the border with what’s been happening on the border for decades is proper. I used to do a lot of Pages. One might find ‘border’ as a very frequent tag.

220
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:40:08am

re: #216 KGxvi

I’ve not seen much evidence that there’s ever any cross-over like this. Even in Limbaugh’s “operation chaos” I don’t think the exit polls showed more than like 2% cross over. Republicans tend to vote in Republican primaries and Democrats tend to vote in Democratic primaries.

In practice not a large number, but I do recall an interview in 2016 of some Ohio Democrats who voted in the Republican primary for Kasich because they were terrified of Trump and much preferred Kasich.

221
darthstar  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:40:11am
222
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:40:55am

An interesting point I heard on Pod Save America that I had kind of forgotten about, with respect to impeachment. When Clinton was impeached, his job approval numbers stayed strong, but his personal approval numbers were fucking terrible - like in the 30s. That’s one of the reasons Gore didn’t have Clinton campaign with him, he was basically toxic outside of the Democratic base. Trump’s approval ratings are already dropping into the 30s… two or three months of impeachment hearings in the House and then another couple months of an impeachment trial in the Senate (that would get wall to wall coverage on every channel, including FNC) probably wouldn’t help Trump.

223
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:41:06am

re: #219 wrenchwench

The cynicism must be properly applied. To connect Malheur to what’s happening at the border is not the proper application. To connect what’s going on at the border with what’s been happening on the border for decades is proper. I used to do a lot of Pages. One might find ‘border’ as a very frequent tag.

Right.

224
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:41:30am
225
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:42:08am

re: #222 KGxvi

An interesting point I heard on Pod Save America that I had kind of forgotten about, with respect to impeachment. When Clinton was impeached, his job approval numbers stayed strong, but his personal approval numbers were fucking terrible - like in the 30s. That’s one of the reasons Gore didn’t have Clinton campaign with him, he was basically toxic outside of the Democratic base. Trump’s approval ratings are already dropping into the 30s… two or three months of impeachment hearings in the House and then another couple months of an impeachment trial in the Senate (that would get wall to wall coverage on every channel, including FNC) probably wouldn’t help Trump.

I had forgotten that too when I’ve criticized Gore for distancing himself from Clinton in 2000. I still think Lieberman was a mistake though for VP.

226
lizardofid  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:42:48am

re: #208 wrenchwench

It’s El Rio Bravo (del Norte) when it’s in Mexico, then magically turns back into the Rio Grande when it’s in the US.

Shifting seamlessly between Spanish and English, like my friends who live along it.

Oh, good morning all!

227
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:43:06am

re: #224 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

David is of course absolutely right. I’m for investigative journalism. Assenge used a family’s tragedy to push a false narrative. And for that he can go to fucking hell. And it’s consistent with his personal behavior too.

228
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:43:10am

re: #220 Hecuba’s daughter

In practice not a large number, but I do recall an interview in 2016 of some Ohio Democrats who voted in the Republican primary for Kasich because they were terrified of Trump and much preferred Kasich.

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I’m just saying that the effects are negligible at best in most contests. You’d basically need something as close as the Florida general election in 2000 for it to flip a contest. And even then, if you’re dealing with proportionally awarding delegates in a primary, it doesn’t mean anything.

229
Jay C  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:44:22am

re: #203 HappyWarrior

I just don’t get the cynicism. Some of y’all need to look at this. Trump is polling below 50% consistently. I’m not saying to take that victory lap but have some confidence.

It’s not a matter of “cynicism” (IMHO, of course) - neither optimism or pessimism, but realism. Whatever the actual percentage of hard-core Trumpistas in the electorate, I think the numbers are virtually irrelevant compared to the “hard-core” part. The Trump “base” have become a fanatical personality cult who are never NOT going to vote for Trump (or, in extremis, any Republican), and will turn out in huge numbers, fueled by prejudice and desperation - and frothing exhortations from their Dear Leader.
The key to getting The Orange Anus out of the WH (and never mind any primary challengers: they’re going nowhere) will be to keep the Dem “base” united*, and convince just enough of the electorate in just enough of the key states that voting (D) will be a benefit to the country, and not just to Satan. Which latter argument, I’m sure will be a major campaign theme in some parts of the country.

*no easy task

230
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:44:39am

re: #228 KGxvi

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I’m just saying that the effects are negligible at best in most contests. You’d basically need something as close as the Florida general election in 2000 for it to flip a contest. And even then, if you’re dealing with proportionally awarding delegates in a primary, it doesn’t mean anything.

Yeah it does happen and I know someone who did vote for Kasich too but it’s not happened. I just don’t think it’s going to work.

231
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:46:57am

re: #225 HappyWarrior

I had forgotten that too when I’ve criticized Gore for distancing himself from Clinton in 2000. I still think Lieberman was a mistake though for VP.

I think the Lieberman pick was part of Gore distancing himself from Clinton because of Lieberman’s perceived social conservativism at the time. It definitely, even in the moment, wasn’t a great pick - at least in my mind.

232
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:47:30am

re: #226 lizardofid

Shifting seamlessly between Spanish and English, like my friends who live along it.

Oh, good morning all!

I just found out it has a Navajo name and an Apache name, too. And now that I think about it, there must be a lot more.

233
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:48:07am

re: #229 Jay C

It’s not a matter of “cynicism” (IMHO, of course) - neither optimism or pessimism, but realism. Whatever the actual percentage of hard-core Trumpistas in the electorate, I think the numbers are virtually irrelevant compared to the “hard-core” part. The Trump “base” have become a fanatical personality cult who are never NOT going to vote for Trump (or, in extremis, any Republican), and will turn out in huge numbers, fueled by prejudice and desperation - and frothing exhortations from their Dear Leader.
The key to getting The Orange Anus out of the WH (and never mind any primary challengers: they’re going nowhere) will be to keep the Dem “base” united*, and convince just enough of the electorate in just enough of the key states that voting (D) will be a benefit to the country, and not just to Satan. Which latter argument, I’m sure will be a major campaign theme in some parts of the country.

*no easy task

Unity is key. And honestly even though what happened wasn’t her fault, HRC made a great foil for the easily manipulated Bros. I don’t see Bernie’s 2020 primary opponents being that. The lamest they’ve gotten on Warren is OMG SHE COPIED BERNIE or whatever. The actual Democratic voting base is a lot more moderate than people online. I talked to my Dad about the race and bear in mind this is someone who voted for Bernie in the primaries last time and he was just confused as hell to why Bernie would want to go war on the idea of getting convicted felons a right to vote while in prison. I pointed out that it’s not even a federal issue and that the focus should be on doing what some states have done which is retaining one’s voting rights after release.

234
Anymouse 🌹  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:48:30am

re: #57 wrenchwench

That’s in downding territory. You’re lucky I have a new policy: No downdings before breakfast.

Yup. That’s moving into territory that says “Anymouse shouldn’t be a citizen,” or “Steve King is right.”

Nope. I won’t downding it either, but I wanna.

235
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:49:13am

re: #231 KGxvi

I think the Lieberman pick was part of Gore distancing himself from Clinton because of Lieberman’s perceived social conservativism at the time. It definitely, even in the moment, wasn’t a great pick - at least in my mind.

True. It’s just man Lieberman was the perfect foil for Nader going THEY’RE BOTH THE SAME. I just think he could have gone with someone with a socially conservative reputation who wasn’t an outright jerk who alienated a lot of people.

236
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:51:28am

re: #232 wrenchwench

I just found out it has a Navajo name and an Apache name, too. And now that I think about it, there must be a lot more.

Kind of like how Mount Everest has its current name and the original name that the Nepalis gave it. I prefer the latter. Native names often tell you much more about what a place actually is than when you name it for a white dude. That’s why Denali is a much better name than Mount McKinley.

237
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:51:40am

re: #234 Anymouse 🌹

Yup. That’s moving into territory that says “Anymouse shouldn’t be a citizen,” or “Steve King is right.”

Nope. I won’t downding it either, but I wanna.

Have you had breakfast? Or dinner, or whatever you have at this time of day. (We’re only in the same time zone geographically.)

238
ObserverArt  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:52:26am

re: #219 wrenchwench

The cynicism must be properly applied. To connect Malheur to what’s happening at the border is not the proper application. To connect what’s going on at the border with what’s been happening on the border for decades is proper. I used to do a lot of Pages. One might find ‘border’ as a very frequent tag.

Did you think I was connecting Malheur to the border issues???

I was the one that brought it up and it was not to do with the border.

I mentioned it in light of Happy talking about cynicism and how everyone was so cynical about the Bundy’s getting away with it all and it would lead to many more such incidents.

It all seemed to work out and we haven’t had a ton of like situations. And yes, I know the Bundy’s got away with it in the courts, but they did get arrested and they no longer occupy the sanctuary.

239
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:53:34am

re: #187 Jay C

So IOW, what has to be a fairly routine (or at the least, not unusual or unheard-of) “confrontation” on the poorly-demarcated border, which was resolved (AFACBD) without incident. Yet our Cretin-in-Chief tweets about it like it was a replay of the Battle of Columbus. With no clarification, still less pushback, and even less accuracy.

Moron.

Over in freeperland there are screams for W A R, kill the ******, etc.

While freepers are small’ish community, I believe that there are enough morons in the country who would agree, to cause the orange shit-goblin to think there is a large cohort of people that believe this

240
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:53:51am

re: #236 HappyWarrior

Kind of like how Mount Everest has its current name and the original name that the Nepalis gave it. I prefer the latter. Native names often tell you much more about what a place actually is than when you name it for a white dude. That’s why Denali is a much better name than Mount McKinley.

My brother once solicited names for a yet-to-be-born daughter. I suggested Denali. She’s Jamila now.

241
Anymouse 🌹  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:53:52am

re: #86 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I did not propose to fully sacrifice it, just amend it somewhat and attach the condition that the parents should be legal residents (or recognized refugees).

No.

242
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:54:20am

re: #238 ObserverArt

Did you think I was connecting Malheur to the border issues???

I was the one that brought it up and it was not to do with the border.

I mentioned it in light of Happy talking about cynicism and how everyone was so cynical about the Bundy’s getting away with it all and it would lead to many more such incidents.

It all seemed to work out and we haven’t had a ton of like situations. And yes, I know the Bundy’s got away with it in the courts, but they did get arrested and they no longer occupy the sanctuary.

Yeah WW, sorry I was talking about cynicism in regards to the GE. I just refuse to let it get the worse of me. I’m not blind that I think Trump can’t win. I just think we should be focused on how the odds are good for us.

243
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:55:15am

re: #239 Colère Tueur de Lapin

Over in freeperland there are screams for W A R, kill the ******, etc.

While freepers are small’ish community, I believe that there are enough morons in the country who would agree, to cause the orange shit-goblin to think there is a large cohort of people that believe this

Well, if he launches a war without Congressional approval, that’s another article of impeachment we can add to the list.

244
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:55:35am

re: #234 Anymouse 🌹

Yup. That’s moving into territory that says “Anymouse shouldn’t be a citizen,” or “Steve King is right.”

Nope. I won’t downding it either, but I wanna.

Please do not put me in the camp of people who want to revoke birthright citizenship as an excuse to kick people out, and certainly not on any retroactive basis.

The humane approach is letting people who have grown up and established their life in America have the right to apply for citizenship or at least legal residence.

245
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:55:53am

re: #238 ObserverArt

Did you think I was connecting Malheur to the border issues???

I was the one that brought it up and it was not to do with the border.

I mentioned it in light of Happy talking about cynicism and how everyone was so cynical about the Bundy’s getting away with it all and it would lead to many more such incidents.

It all seemed to work out and we haven’t had a ton of like situations. And yes, I know the Bundy’s got away with it in the courts, but they did get arrested and they no longer occupy the sanctuary.

My fault. I thought you were being cynical, not anticynical. I’ll do better.

246
Interesting Times  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:56:06am

re: #242 HappyWarrior

Yeah WW, sorry I was talking about cynicism in regards to the GE. I just refuse to let it get the worse of me. I’m not blind that I think Trump can’t win. I just think we should be focused on how the odds are good for us.

Assuming a free and fair election, however - my main concern is, what can Dems/regular voters do to protect themselves from voter suppression. Action and preparation needs to happen now.

247
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:56:33am

re: #240 wrenchwench

My brother once solicited names for a yet-to-be-born daughter. I suggested Denali. She’s Jamila now.

I’m not engaged let alone married but if I ever have a daughter, I’m really thinking about the names of my last two ancestors born in Ireland. Lillie Bridget. I don’t even have photos of those two women but I admire the hell out of them especially Lillie whose give name was Sarah but Lillie was her maiden name and also the given name of my Nana’s mother. Woman raised several children as a widow first in Glasgow and then in Cleveland. Died a year before Nana’s mom was born.

248
Interesting Times  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:57:55am

re: #246 Interesting Times

Remember how Mueller said he’s respecting the “can’t indict a sitting president” rule? Well, that makes this the obvious conclusion:

249
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:58:27am

re: #246 Interesting Times

Assuming a free and fair election, however - my main concern is, what can Dems/regular voters do to protect themselves from voter suppression. Action and preparation needs to happen now.

Absolutely. Be vigilant but let’s not be too paranoid either. If we vote like we did last fall, Trump and the GOP majority in the Senate are going bye bye. I’m not really as worried about defeating Trump in this country, I think most people are fed up with his bullshit. I’m worried about defeating Trumpism.

250
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 8:58:50am

re: #246 Interesting Times

Assuming a free and fair election, however - my main concern is, what can Dems/regular voters do to protect themselves from voter suppression. Action and preparation needs to happen now.

Some stuff that will probably help:

1. Check your registration status, confirm that you’re registered to vote.
2. Donate to the ACLU and similar groups that do a lot of good work in protecting voting rights
3. Get involved in voter registration drives
4. Volunteer for GOTV drives

Those are basically ranked lowest effort to highest effort

251
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:00:24am

re: #200 HappyWarrior

Larry Hogan, governor of Maryland hasn’t ruled it out yet either. He’s a popular two term governor who increased his victory margin in a very Democratic state in a very Democratic year. If the GOP weren’t full of stupid know-nothing idiots, he would be a perfect candidate for them in the years to come. He’s one of the few Republicans I have seen that isn’t an outright asshole to minorities.

That may well kill his chances of getting very far.

252
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:00:33am

re: #236 HappyWarrior

Kind of like how Mount Everest has its current name and the original name that the Nepalis gave it. I prefer the latter. Native names often tell you much more about what a place actually is than when you name it for a white dude. That’s why Denali is a much better name than Mount McKinley.

Going beyond the mis-naming of Denali as McKinley, the history of why is became McKinley makes the nom even more outrageous.

Yup, it was the metal as currency morons.

The mountain was first designated “Mount McKinley” by a New Hampshire-born Seattleite named William Dickey, who led a gold prospectoring dig in the sands of the Susitna River in June 1896. An account written on his return to the contiguous United States appeared in The New York Sun on January 24, 1897, under the title Discoveries in Alaska (1896).[10][11] Dickey wrote, “We named our great peak Mount McKinley, after William McKinley of Ohio, who had been nominated for the Presidency, and that fact was the first news we received on our way out of that wonderful wilderness.”[10][11] By most accounts, the naming was politically driven; Dickey had met many silver miners who zealously promoted Democratic presidential candidate William Jennings Bryan’s ideal of a silver standard, inspiring him to retaliate by naming the mountain after a strong proponent of the gold standard.[11]

253
Anymouse 🌹  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:03:12am

re: #121 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

Birthright citizenship made my mother and her brothers American citizens automatically, though their parents were both immigrants. Grandpa did not get naturalized till nearly a decade after mom (the youngest) was born. Grandma died before she had the chance.

Birthright citizenship is non-negotiable for me. If you were born in the USA or its territories, you are a US citizen. Period. I don’t care about the circumstances of that birth. The child cannot choose how, when or where he or she is born.

It made my father a citizen, even though his parents were “illegal immigrants” because of a racist immigration law. They both served in WW2 (and one died in it). He didn’t choose to be born here.

If my father was under that system (parents “illegal”), then I could be too (one parent “illegal”).

254
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:03:25am

We should find a sinkhole somewhere and name it after Trump.

255
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:05:21am

Count me among those who believe becoming a citizen should be easier, not harder. Even with respect to citizenship at birth - one parent a citizen, born anywhere in the world: boom, natural born citizen.

256
makeitstop  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:05:22am

Kinda quiet on the Congressional front this morning. Wonder what’s going on behind closed doors?

257
Jay C  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:05:37am

re: #254 Eclectic Cyborg

We should find a sinkhole somewhere and name it after Trump.

/

We have one: on Pennsylvania Ave. in Washington DC……

258
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:06:54am

re: #254 Eclectic Cyborg

We should find a sinkhole somewhere and name it after Trump.

/

why the sarc tag?

259
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:08:52am

re: #255 KGxvi

Count me among those who believe becoming a citizen should be easier, not harder. Even with respect to citizenship at birth - one parent a citizen, born anywhere in the world: boom, natural born citizen.

Thank you. The process of immigrating here was far more involved than I ever realized. I’ve spent over $10 000 all told, been through multiple interviews and biometric screens, I’ve had to fill out reams of forms and I get to do the latter two one MORE time before I can finally become a citizen.

And that’s for a white Canadian male who is NOT heavily scrutinized by the system.

260
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:09:05am

re: #258 Colère Tueur de Lapin

why the sarc tag?

Typo :P

261
Anymouse 🌹  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:16:05am

re: #175 KGxvi

About two weeks ago there was an incident involving US and Mexican troops:

Because of course the existing border fence is stupidly well north of the actual fucking border.

You have to put border fences inside a border. That is to ensure you don’t inadvertently put it on the other nation’s territory, and you can access both sides of it for maintenance.

The Berlin Wall is the famous example of that. It was just inside the East Berlin border to prevent encroachment on West Berlin territory.

262
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:16:17am

re: #203 HappyWarrior

I just don’t get the cynicism. Some of y’all need to look at this. Trump is polling below 50% consistently. I’m not saying to take that victory lap but have some confidence.

I’m pretty confident he’s gonna get squashed if he makes it to the elections, but he doesn’t have to win a majority.

263
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:17:08am

re: #254 Eclectic Cyborg

We should find a sinkhole somewhere and name it after Trump.

They named a settlement after him in Israel that runs the risk of ending up an enormous crater…

264
Teukka  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:18:25am

Swedish Wildfire Saga:

Rescue chief of Northern Dalarna county, Johan Szymanski, fears nightmare scenario for Wildfires this summer.
metro.se

265
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:19:02am

re: #264 Teukka

If only they’d invested in more rakes…

266
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:20:10am

re: #265 Eclectic Cyborg

If only they’d invested in more rakes…

rakenarökk

267
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:20:40am

It’s nucking futs that de Blasio, who isn’t running and isn’t declared got more support than Gillibrand, who is.

268
Teukka  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:21:20am

re: #266 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

rakenarökk

GO TO YOUR ROOM! ;)

269
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:22:49am

re: #261 Anymouse 🌹

You have to put border fences inside a border. That is to ensure you don’t inadvertently put it on the other nation’s territory, and you can access both sides of it for maintenance.

The Berlin Wall is the famous example of that. It was just inside the East Berlin border to prevent encroachment on West Berlin territory.

Now there’s a park with pieces of the wall spread around, all beat up. And a couple little pieces (that I knocked off myself! before there was a park) in my desk drawer. In a baggie, to reduce maintenance.

270
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:25:18am

re: #267 lawhawk

It’s nucking futs that de Blasio, who isn’t running and isn’t declared got more support than Gillibrand, who is.

I can only see the second tweet, but I think almost everyone on that list will be out before the first debate (Gabbard will be getting questionable money to stay in).

271
Unshaken Defiance  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:25:31am

I can not imagine making it harder to become an American citizen as a good idea. This idea is the cultural and economic equivalent of Flat Earthers. “Blood and Soil” my ass. If an immigrant serves in our all volunteer military they should get in the USA for life.

It’s a globe. People, goods, money all travel quickly and affordably. Economies and circumstances are dynamic and barely predictable. Policy for visits, employment, naturalization, the ability to move money in and out all has to be coordinated. It’s as obvious as a massive container ship at dock.

Jail the employers that break the rules before you screw with any immigrants seeking work. I swear we should reverse the emphasis to 99.9% on employers and .1% on overstays and non permitted immigrants.

272
Anymouse 🌹  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:25:55am

re: #177 lawhawk

Actually, that’s not true.

The US-Mexico border for a significant portion of the nearly 2,000 miles is the centerline of the Rio Grande River. Therefore, any actual border fence on the US side would have to be inland from the river. Considering that the Rio Grande often sees low water flows, it’s possible to be confused by the actual border demarcation when there’s no actual landmark to go by other than a fence that is inland from the centerline of a waterway that can be ephemeral.

And like most rivers, it changes course. When it does that, land from one country winds up on the other’s side.

That has happened several times, putting Mexican land on our side of the river. The last time this happened was in the Seventies, when Mexican land wound up on our side of the river. That was settled in 1977 (the land was adjudicated as Mexico in a boundary dispute).

273
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:26:56am

re: #248 Interesting Times

Remember how Mueller said he’s respecting the “can’t indict a sitting president” rule? Well, that makes this the obvious conclusion:

Well, what are we going to do, Sarah? I am not going to pessimistly decide that we’re screwed, because that just means we will be.

274
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:27:22am

re: #259 Eclectic Cyborg

Thank you. The process of immigrating here was far more involved than I ever realized. I’ve spent over $10 000 all told, been through multiple interviews and biometric screens, I’ve had to fill out reams of forms and I get to do the latter two one MORE time before I can finally become a citizen.

And that’s for a white Canadian male who is NOT heavily scrutinized by the system.

I always think about the scene in Gangs of New York when Leo gets off the boat in New York. Men from Ireland walk up, sign a paper and get handed an Army uniform. Like, “congratulations, you’re an American, go fight for your country.”

Irish Immigrants recurited to the Union Army

275
jaunte  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:27:36am

re: #271 Unshaken Defiance

Where will conservatives get new citizens to oppress with regressive tax policies?

276
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:27:38am

re: #251 Eclectic Cyborg

That may well kill his chances of getting very far.

See what I mean about the party being full of stupid idiots. He won re-election in a landslide in a very Democratic state (Maryland) in a year very bad for Republicans. I wouldn’t vote for him but he’s not a monster either.

277
Unshaken Defiance  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:28:24am

re: #275 jaunte

Where will conservatives get new citizens to oppress with regressive tax policies?

Like always. Home grown and inbred. ///

278
GlutenFreeJesus  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:29:46am

Not sure how many of you are following the case of that missing 5 year old boy in Crystal Lake IL, but word from friends in Woodstock where they narrowed down their search say they found his body. Apparently the mother stayed overnight at a hotel there when he went “missing”. So sad, and yet another case of parents/supposed loved ones going in front of the TV begging for help trying to find someone they’ve murdered.

Official press conference at 1PM ET.

*EDIT* press conference pushed back to 2PM ET. :-/

279
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:30:04am

re: #274 KGxvi

I always think about the scene in Gangs of New York when Leo gets off the boat in New York. Men from Ireland walk up, sign a paper and get handed an Army uniform. Like, “congratulations, you’re an American, go fight for your country.”

[Embedded content]

I wonder about my own second great grandfather here. He was German not Irish. Not sure when he arrived honestly but I don’t think it was long before the outbreak of war. He’s not in the 1860 census that I know of and I think he came alone. I believe I’ve talked to a great grandson of his brother who went to the UK.

280
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:31:39am

re: #273 Belafon

Well, what are we going to do, Sarah? I am not going to pessimistly decide that we’re screwed, because that just means we will be.

If Trump loses the election: i.e. the EC selects the Democrat AND the Democrat wins more actual votes, he won’t stay in office because even if he tried, he would be forcibly removed. I’m more optimistic in that sense than many others are. Bill Maher has repeatedly asserted that Trump won’t leave office no matter what the results but that’s a step too far for me.

281
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:31:44am

re: #267 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

It’s nucking futs that de Blasio, who isn’t running and isn’t declared got more support than Gillibrand, who is.

I know it’s name recon but I’m kind of bummed that 47% is two old guys who have been around. I like Biden but I really think he should be throwing his name and weight behind someone else.

282
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:32:59am

re: #252 Colère Tueur de Lapin

Going beyond the mis-naming of Denali as McKinley, the history of why is became McKinley makes the nom even more outrageous.

Yup, it was the metal as currency morons.

Thanks. I had no idea about that. So if it had been seen by white guys now, it might be Mount Paul.

283
Anymouse 🌹  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:33:20am

re: #237 wrenchwench

Have you had breakfast? Or dinner, or whatever you have at this time of day. (We’re only in the same time zone geographically.)

No. I’m headed back to bed. I just got up for a drink of water and peeked in here. Then I logged in and started commenting and now you know the rest of the story.

284
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:33:34am

re: #280 Hecuba’s daughter

If Trump loses the election: i.e. the EC selects the Democrat AND the Democrat wins more actual votes, he won’t stay in office because even if he tried, he would be forcibly removed. I’m more optimistic in that sense than many others are. Bill Maher has repeatedly asserted that Trump won’t leave office no matter what the results but that’s a step too far for me.

The Secret Service would remove him.

285
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:33:43am

re: #278 GlutenFreeJesus

Not sure how many of you are following the case of that missing 5 year old boy in Crystal Lake IL, but word from friends in Woodstock where they narrowed down their search say they found his body. Apparently the mother stayed overnight at a hotel there when he went “missing”. So sad, and yet another case of parents/supposed loved ones going in front of the TV begging for help trying to find someone they’ve murdered.

Official press conference at 1PM ET.

I had only seen the images and saw him missing, and didn’t pay much more attention. Since you mentioned it, I went to look. It looks like there’s a custody battle for a younger brother, and mom isn’t cooperating with police. So sad.

286
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:33:47am

re: #267 lawhawk

I really want to see polling that doesn’t ask “if the election were today” and instead get a sense for how strong support actually is. Like “are you definitely voting for this person”, because I saw something recently that suggested about three-quarters of Democratic primary voters haven’t made up their minds.

287
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:34:30am

re: #280 Hecuba’s daughter

If Trump loses the election: i.e. the EC selects the Democrat AND the Democrat wins more actual votes, he won’t stay in office because even if he tried, he would be forcibly removed. I’m more optimistic in that sense than many others are. Bill Maher has repeatedly asserted that Trump won’t leave office no matter what the results but that’s a step too far for me.

Yeah, he’s no longer president even if he dosen’t show up for the inauguration.

288
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:35:14am

re: #286 KGxvi

I really want to see polling that doesn’t ask “if the election were today” and instead get a sense for how strong support actually is. Like “are you definitely voting for this person”, because I saw something recently that suggested about three-quarters of Democratic primary voters haven’t made up their minds.

Yeah that’s true. I think people will have a better idea once we see more. Lieberman was the 2004 frontrunner at one point FFS and he was a total non-factor in the end. I don’t think Sanders and Biden are particularly strong candidates. I like Biden but Biden is better as part of a team like he was with Obama.

289
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:35:49am

re: #287 Belafon

Yeah, he’s no longer president even if he dosen’t show up for the inauguration.

And there’s no ruling saying you have to attend your successor’s inauguration. And honestly I’ll be glad if he’s not there since he’ll try to make it all about him.

290
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:35:57am

re: #282 HappyWarrior

Thanks. I had no idea about that. So if it had been seen by white guys now, it might be Mount Paul.

**Shudder**

291
GlutenFreeJesus  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:36:03am

re: #285 Belafon

Mother is pregnant too. Ugh.

292
Anymouse 🌹  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:36:32am

re: #244 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Please do not put me in the camp of people who want to revoke birthright citizenship as an excuse to kick people out, and certainly not on any retroactive basis.

The humane approach is letting people who have grown up and established their life in America have the right to apply for citizenship or at least legal residence.

So they’re only not citizens until they’re adults and then apply (after which the government says “no, get out.”)

That’s exactly where the right has been going with this OMYGODILLEGALS argument against birthright citizenship argument for decades.

When I bring it up here, I get “well you’re one of the good ones” (except the ones who think I’m not because atheist or liberal).

293
Jay C  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:38:51am

re: #280 Hecuba’s daughter

If Trump loses the election: i.e. the EC selects the Democrat AND the Democrat wins more actual votes, he won’t stay in office because even if he tried, he would be forcibly removed. I’m more optimistic in that sense than many others are. Bill Maher has repeatedly asserted that Trump won’t leave office no matter what the results but that’s a step too far for me.

Probably: though I certainly can imagine the Orange Asshole sticking around til the last possible moment - loudly and frequently tweeting and speechifying about FAKE ELECTION!! and FRAUD!!! and CROOKED DEMOCRATS!!!!, and then “reluctantly” pissing off back to Mar-a-Lago to take up his real job again: i.e. milking the endless promotion of himself and the “Trump brand” for as much loot as he can grift.

294
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:39:08am

re: #292 Anymouse 🌹

When I bring it up here, I get “well you’re one of the good ones” (except the ones who think I’m not because atheist or liberal).

Don’t think there are many left from the olden days that would say the parenthetical you posted. FTR, BR citizenship stays and doesn’t change. Just to put my foot in discussion, too.

295
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:39:21am

re: #292 Anymouse 🌹

So they’re only not citizens until they’re adults and then apply (after which the government says “no, get out.”)

That’s exactly where the right has been going with this OMYGODILLEGALS argument against birthright citizenship argument for decades.

When I bring it up here, I get “well you’re one of the good ones” (except the ones who think I’m not because atheist or liberal).

It’s just an awful idea. As I said earlier, we have 121 years of legal precedent on this, knowledge it works, and can see the harm it would entail. So I don’t know why Wendell is so open to amending something that wasn’t even an issue until Steve King, Ann Coulter, Trump, and a bunch of other higoted hardliners decided was a problem. It’s no ta problem. Birthright citizenship made people like your grandparents Americans in a way they would not have been had BR citizenshpi been the case and it did the same for my grandparents’ older brothers and sisters.

296
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:40:03am

re: #288 HappyWarrior

Yeah that’s true. I think people will have a better idea once we see more. Lieberman was the 2004 frontrunner at one point FFS and he was a total non-factor in the end. I don’t think Sanders and Biden are particularly strong candidates. I like Biden but Biden is better as part of a team like he was with Obama.

Lieberman isn’t the reason Gore lost — though it’s possible that Tennessee went for Bush because enough voters wouldn’t support a Jewish vice-president. I remember watching one Bush-Gore debate and screaming at the screen “Where is Ralph Nader now that we need him?” No — I didn’t vote for Nader, but Gore’s debate performance was underwhelming. That may have cost Gore enough votes — well that and the Florida voter purges of legitimate voters — to lose the election.

297
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:40:57am

re: #292 Anymouse 🌹

So they’re only not citizens until they’re adults and then apply (after which the government says “no, get out.”)

That’s exactly where the right has been going with this OMYGODILLEGALS argument against birthright citizenship argument for decades.

When I bring it up here, I get “well you’re one of the good ones” (except the ones who think I’m not because atheist or liberal).

The birthright citizenship issue is just a cover and another excuse to kick people out of the country.

Again, let me stress that anyone who grows up and establishes their life, family and livelihood in America should be allowed to stay.

Do not confuse me with people who support BC as an excuse to conduct Ethic Cleansing

298
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:41:00am

I remember that community in Indiana was upset when their favorite Hispanic restauranteur got deported because they liked him. Well, guys, there’s a lot of people who genuinely like other people too. But hey so sorry that you lost your decent Tex-Mex. Other people lost their father and husband and yes I know the guy’s wife was a dumbass Trump voter.

299
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:41:54am

re: #293 Jay C

Probably: though I certainly can imagine the Orange Asshole sticking around til the last possible moment - loudly and frequently tweeting and speechifying about FAKE ELECTION!! and FRAUD!!! and CROOKED DEMOCRATS!!!!, and then “reluctantly” pissing off back to Mar-a-Lago to take up his real job again: i.e. milking the endless promotion of himself and the “Trump brand” for as much loot as he can grift.

If they don’t force him to participate in the traditional inauguration day ceremonies, he’s going to be signing pardons until 11:59 a.m.

300
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:42:01am

re: #270 Belafon

From part 1 of the tweet:
2020 National Democratic Primary:
Biden 27%
Sanders 20%
Buttigieg 8%
Harris 8%
Warren 6%
O’Rourke 4%
Booker 2%
Hickenlooper 2%
Klobuchar 1%
de Blasio 1%@MonmouthPoll 4/11-15

301
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:42:38am

re: #296 Hecuba’s daughter

Lieberman isn’t the reason Gore lost — though it’s possible that Tennessee went for Bush because enough voters wouldn’t support a Jewish vice-president. I remember watching one Bush-Gore debate and screaming at the screen “Where is Ralph Nader now that we need him?” No — I didn’t vote for Nader, but Gore’s debate performance was underwhelming. That may have cost Gore enough votes — well that and the Florida voter purges of legitimate voters — to lose the election.

I think Lieberman for a lot of younger voters was a huge turn off. Gore already had some wary eyes due to Tipper’s role in the 80’s music wars and Gore kind of raised more stink eye when he added Lieberman. I gladly voted for Gore in my 8th grade mock election but Gore made a lot of mistakes and I think Joe was one of them. You are correct that he hurt himself at the debates though.

302
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:43:13am

re: #299 KGxvi

If they don’t force him to participate in the traditional inauguration day ceremonies, he’s going to be signing pardons until 11:59 a.m.

Maybe they can distract him with Hamburders.

303
Hecuba's daughter  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:44:57am

re: #299 KGxvi

If they don’t force him to participate in the traditional inauguration day ceremonies, he’s going to be signing pardons until 11:59 a.m.

He will start signing pardons as soon as he’s lost re-election. Every one of the deplorables who support him will be freed.

304
ObserverArt  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:47:00am

re: #245 wrenchwench

My fault. I thought you were being cynical, not anticynical. I’ll do better.

Awww wrench…you do just fine!

305
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:47:10am

re: #299 KGxvi

If they don’t force him to participate in the traditional inauguration day ceremonies, he’s going to be signing pardons until 11:59 a.m.

In 2021, the new President walks into the Oval Office, sees a note on the desk and picks it up to read it…

“Dear loser,

Congratulations on your RIGGED ELECTION against the greatest and most successful President ever! Good luck on doing even HALF of what I did. MAGA!

P.S. If you could finish the wall for me, that would be great…”

306
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:50:47am

I think we’ll get our next President in. The problem will be Trump with the help of his allies attempting to de-legitimize that President at every turn. That’s where Lumpy Hannity will come in.

307
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:52:08am
A Tennessee man charged by New York prosecutors with pretending to be a Manhattan lawyer and taking thousands from would-be clients was the co-founder of Students for Trump, a national group that mobilized college campuses in the run-up to the 2016 election and plans to do so again in 2020.

John Lambert, 23, was arrested last week and charged by Southern District of New York prosecutors with wire fraud for having invented a lawyer persona named “Eric Pope” that he used to solicit legal work online. ALM reported last week that the fake firm website he created appeared to have attorney biographies cribbed from senior partners at Cravath, Swaine & Moore.

h/t dailykos.com

308
GlutenFreeJesus  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:52:24am

WGN News just said they found AJ’s body. That poor kid. :(

309
ObserverArt  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:52:54am

re: #246 Interesting Times

Assuming a free and fair election, however - my main concern is, what can Dems/regular voters do to protect themselves from voter suppression. Action and preparation needs to happen now.

It seems a lot of the voter suppression is based on the last time a person voted. States have put in voting rules about how long it has been since a person has voted. Ohio just set it at four years. If you haven’t voted in four years your voter registration gets dropped.

I don’t like it but the way to prevent a lot of these problems is to vote in at least the major elections every two years and you should stay registered.

People should vote in every election. Maybe folks are getting the idea.

310
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:53:10am

Interesting bit from the Monmouth poll that lawhawk posted. When it comes to favorability ratings, the “no opinion” and “haven’t heard of” are key. For Biden it’s 12% no opinion and 1% haven’t heard of (who are these people?); for Sanders it’s 13%/1%.

Then you look at the other candidates, they’ve got room for growth:

Warren: 18/12
O’Rourke: 22/23
Klobuchar: 28/32
Booker: 24/20
Harris: 19/21
Buttigieg: 25/34

Sanders overall approval/disapproval is at 65/21, so he’s basically hit his ceiling (like Trump I think he’s got a relatively high floor/low ceiling dynamic). Biden is only at 72/16, and has been dropping since January.

311
jaunte  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:56:10am
312
Unshaken Defiance  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:58:33am

We simply can not compete for the worlds talent if we can’t promise a home to go with the job. This is huge in I.T., medicine, research. If we can’t import talent, we decline.

313
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:58:59am

re: #310 KGxvi

Interesting bit from the Monmouth poll that lawhawk posted. When it comes to favorability ratings, the “no opinion” and “haven’t heard of” are key. For Biden it’s 12% no opinion and 1% haven’t heard of (who are these people?); for Sanders it’s 13%/1%.

Then you look at the other candidates, they’ve got room for growth:

Warren: 18/12
O’Rourke: 22/23
Klobuchar: 28/32
Booker: 24/20
Harris: 19/21
Buttigieg: 25/34

Sanders overall approval/disapproval is at 65/21, so he’s basically hit his ceiling (like Trump I think he’s got a relatively high floor/low ceiling dynamic). Biden is only at 72/16, and has been dropping since January.

I found it very interesting that one of Sanders’ high ranking staffers said they would be fine with winning with a plurality. Pretty rich I thought given their tantrum over what happened with Clinton. The way his campaign is run really reminds me of Trump. There are rules for him and then there are rules for everyone else. I sure as hell don’t like that from Trump and I don’t like it from Bernie either claiming to speak for my side.

314
Targetpractice  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:59:03am

re: #310 KGxvi

Interesting bit from the Monmouth poll that lawhawk posted. When it comes to favorability ratings, the “no opinion” and “haven’t heard of” are key. For Biden it’s 12% no opinion and 1% haven’t heard of (who are these people?); for Sanders it’s 13%/1%.

Then you look at the other candidates, they’ve got room for growth:

Warren: 18/12
O’Rourke: 22/23
Klobuchar: 28/32
Booker: 24/20
Harris: 19/21
Buttigieg: 25/34

Sanders overall approval/disapproval is at 65/21, so he’s basically hit his ceiling (like Trump I think he’s got a relatively high floor/low ceiling dynamic). Biden is only at 72/16, and has been dropping since January.

I rather think that’s because people’s positive impressions of him from the Obama years are slowly guttering out as it becomes obvious he’s not running as “Funky Grandpa Joe” but instead as “Establishment Moderate Joe.”

315
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:59:26am

re: #311 jaunte

It’s pretty bizarre that so many news outlets are framing the Trump subpoenas as a ‘partisan political fight’ and not as ‘the President doesn’t believe the American people deserve transparency and accountability.’

Because every discussion from the budget to tax reform to immigration, climate change, gun control, health care, abortion, gay marriage, etc., has been presented to us as a partisan political fight.

316
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:59:49am

re: #311 jaunte

[Embedded content]

George Conway, Michael Gerson, and that GMU professor who was part of the transition team threw a big wrench in that. The Republicans who favor impeachment need to speak out and pseak out loudly.

317
DangerMan  Apr 24, 2019 • 9:59:53am

re: #309 ObserverArt

It seems a lot of the voter suppression is based on the last time a person voted. States have put in voting rules about how long it has been since a person has voted. Ohio just set it at four years. If you haven’t voted in four years your voter registration gets dropped.

I don’t like it but the way to prevent a lot of these problems is to vote in at least the major elections every two years and you should stay registered.

People should vote in every election. Maybe folks are getting the idea.

also check your registration status early enough in advance of the next election

(afternoon all)

318
jaunte  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:00:12am

re: #315 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

The single most annoying aspect of American broadcast reporting.

319
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:00:45am

re: #314 Targetpractice

I rather think that’s because people’s positive impressions of him from the Obama years are slowly guttering out as it becomes obvious he’s not running as “Funky Grandpa Joe” but instead as “Establishment Moderate Joe.”

That and dragging out his announcement… which is supposed to happen tomorrow (part of me would love to see him announce that his time has passed and he’s actually endorsing a younger candidate, but alas…)

320
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:01:14am

re: #314 Targetpractice

I rather think that’s because people’s positive impressions of him from the Obama years are slowly guttering out as it becomes obvious he’s not running as “Funky Grandpa Joe” but instead as “Establishment Moderate Joe.”

I still like Biden but as I said Biden is better when you get him as part of a team. I like mashed potatoes, I don’t want mashed potatoes as my main course.

321
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:01:49am

re: #318 jaunte

The single most annoying aspect of American broadcast reporting.

It’s getting a strong challenge from the recent increased use of talking head panels for everything fucking thing

322
ObserverArt  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:02:13am

re: #280 Hecuba’s daughter

If Trump loses the election: i.e. the EC selects the Democrat AND the Democrat wins more actual votes, he won’t stay in office because even if he tried, he would be forcibly removed. I’m more optimistic in that sense than many others are. Bill Maher has repeatedly asserted that Trump won’t leave office no matter what the results but that’s a step too far for me.

If Trump loses, and I sure hope he does, I’dl like to see him resist.

I’d like nothing more than seeing the Capitol Police and the Secret Service going into the White House and dragging him out cuffed. Maybe a bit like they carried Assange out, but they may need a crane to load him onto some kind of cart to get him out. I’d hate to see any of the cops and agents get hurt carrying him.

323
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:02:30am

re: #319 KGxvi

That and dragging out his announcement… which is supposed to happen tomorrow (part of me would love to see him announce that his time has passed and he’s actually endorsing a younger candidate, but alas…)

I mean I get why he’s running. He thinks he can win and he thinks he would be a good President and ya know, I don’t entirely disagree. I just think others can win too and others would be better. Some of it is that he’s a little too moderate but honestly some of it is really a desire for someone who hasn’t been around forever.

324
Targetpractice  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:02:48am

re: #311 jaunte

[Embedded content]

There are times when one is left with the very serious impression that the media resents the DNC for their success last November. And so are lending a level of support that no Democrat would ever expect in the same position.

325
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:03:20am

re: #322 ObserverArt

If Trump loses, and I sure hope he does, I’dl like to see him resist.

I’d like nothing more than seeing the Capitol Police and the Secret Service going into the White House and dragging him out cuffed. Maybe a bit like they carried Assange out, but they may need a crane to load him onto some kind of cart to get him out. I’d hate to see any of the cops and agents get hurt carrying him.

I’m trying to think of what song I want to be playing. I guess because I love Dumb and Dumber, Todd Rundgren’s Can We Still Be Friends would be funny. Sorry I have a very cinematic view sometimes lol.

326
DangerMan  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:03:23am

re: #311 jaunte

Matt McDermott

It’s pretty bizarre that so many news outlets are framing the Trump subpoenas as a ‘partisan political fight’ and not as ‘the President doesn’t believe the American people deserve transparency and accountability.’

i’d say ‘the president either doesn’t understand or doesn’t care about congressional powers spelled out in the constitution”

that’s not a frame. it’s a fact. and there is no third thing.

327
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:03:57am

I guess Cornyn has something else to cry about, beside Patton Oswalt

328
makeitstop  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:04:47am

re: #312 Unshaken Defiance

We simply can not compete for the worlds talent if we can’t promise a home to go with the job. This is huge in I.T., medicine, research. If we can’t import talent, we decline.

Judging by all that Trump has done and is trying to do, that may be the goal.

329
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:05:53am

re: #325 HappyWarrior

I’m trying to think of what song I want to be playing. I guess because I love Dumb and Dumber, Todd Rundgren’s Can We Still Be Friends would be funny. Sorry I have a very cinematic view sometimes lol.

It has to be the B-52s “Love Shack” for historical reasons. In boot camp, when they took some of us for extra “exercise”, the company commanders made the rest of us line up and dance to “Love Shack.”

330
DangerMan  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:06:33am

re: #316 HappyWarrior

George Conway, Michael Gerson, and that GMU professor who was part of the transition team threw a big wrench in that. The Republicans who favor impeachment need to speak out and pseak out loudly.

hopefully, as the dems push the process forward, two things happen:

- it becomes more and more obvious how trump and co are ‘obstructing’ the process in absurd ways

- what information gets uncovered comes out with unequivocal nauseatingly detailed accuracy

331
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:06:51am

re: #327 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

I guess Cornyn has something else to cry about, beside Patton Oswalt

[Embedded content]

That’s exactly why he was crying in the first place. You forfeit your right to complain about Patton Oswalt using “bad language” when you’re a loyal follower of Donald Trump and when you love Ted Nugent being your party’s favorite celebrity supporter. Cornyn I hope is petrified of MJ.

332
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:07:14am

re: #330 Man, DangerMan

hopefully, as the dems push the process forward, two things happen:

- it becomes more and more obvious how trump and co are ‘obstructing’ the process in absurd ways

- what information gets uncovered comes out with unequivocal nauseatingly detailed accuracy

Yes indeed.

333
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:07:29am

re: #328 makeitstop

Judging by all that Trump has done and is trying to do, that may be the goal.

Trump and the people who like him believe that it’s the nonwhites that are causing the decline. But their measurement is in skin color, not in talent.

334
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:07:29am

re: #329 Belafon

It has to be the B-52s “Love Shack” for historical reasons. In boot camp, when they took some of us for extra “exercise”, the company commanders made the rest of us line up and dance to “Love Shack.”

That would be fun.

335
jaunte  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:08:48am
336
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:09:55am

ontrol, re: #335 jaunte

He will just try to hide under their robes

337
jaunte  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:10:47am

The GOP hasn’t been waving their little pocket Constitutions around much lately.

338
DangerMan  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:10:53am

re: #322 ObserverArt

If Trump loses, and I sure hope he does, I’dl like to see him resist.

I’d like nothing more than seeing the Capitol Police and the Secret Service going into the White House and dragging him out cuffed. Maybe a bit like they carried Assange out, but they may need a crane to load him onto some kind of cart to get him out. I’d hate to see any of the cops and agents get hurt carrying him.

while we’ve speculated here before who would do what, you know who’s really gonna boot him out of the white house/ oval if he’s there that morning?:

the chief usher and the general services admin - ie the movers

339
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:10:54am

re: #335 jaunte

[Embedded content]

He has such a terrible understanding of basic Civics. I really think his whole presidency is just his smug and pathetic belief that he could do it better than a black guy especially one that mocked him at the WHCD and then got OBL the next day. His whole life is nothing but resentments because I think even Trump knows deep down that he’s unworthy of anything and if weren’t for Daddy Fred he would be just another angry old jackass in Queens.

340
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:11:30am

re: #337 jaunte

The GOP hasn’t been waving their little pocket Constitutions around much lately.

I still have my ACLU one that I got after Khzir Khan spoke at the DNC.

341
Interesting Times  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:11:51am

re: #337 jaunte

The GOP hasn’t been waving their little pocket Constitutions around much lately.

That’s because they used all the pages as toilet paper.

342
DangerMan  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:13:31am

re: #326 Man, DangerMan

i’d say ‘the president either doesn’t understand or doesn’t care about congressional powers spelled out in the constitution”

that’s not a frame. it’s a fact. and there is no third thing.

oh gee and right on cue there’s this: re: #335 jaunte

343
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:15:53am

re: #341 Interesting Times

That’s because they used all the pages as toilet paper.

Nah, ran it through a shredder and using it for confetti (or covfefe)

344
Mike Lamb  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:18:46am

re: #335 jaunte

[Embedded content]

The other part that is striking to me is how he views the entire federal gov’t apparatus, save the House (for the present), as his personal “bodyguards”, and most everyone appears cool with it.

345
DangerMan  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:19:32am

re: #340 HappyWarrior

I still have my ACLU one that I got after Khzir Khan spoke at the DNC.

i have a hardbound copy printed by The Continental Bank & Trust Company of New York

its yellowed and the binding is falling apart

and it goes up to amendment XXI

there’s no date of printing. continental was bought out by chemical bank in 1948.

346
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:20:34am

re: #345 Man, DangerMan

i have a hardbound copy printed by The Continental Bank & Trust Company of New York

its yellowed and the binding is falling apart

and it goes up to amendment XXI

there’s no date of printing. continental was bought out by chemical bank in 1948.

That reminds me of my Great Gatsby copy. I like having old copies of things like that though. I keep a bunch of stuff on my TV desk including the wit and wisdom of Lincoln.

347
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:20:39am

re: #325 HappyWarrior

I’m trying to think of what song I want to be playing. I guess because I love Dumb and Dumber, Todd Rundgren’s Can We Still Be Friends would be funny. Sorry I have a very cinematic view sometimes lol.

Let’s consult the Anthology of Scorsese: Layla, Jumping Jack Flash, or Movin’ Out (Anthony’s Song).

Alternatively, the Anthology of Tarantino: Little Green Bag, Hold Tight, Stuck in the Middle With You

I’d also suggest For Whom the Bell Tolls… perhaps played by 2Cellos for that extra cinematic kick.

348
DangerMan  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:20:45am

re: #344 Mike Lamb

The other part that is striking to me is how he views the entire federal gov’t apparatus, save the House (for the present), as his personal “bodyguards”, and most everyone appears cool with it.

this part!

349
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:21:15am

re: #347 lawhawk

Let’s consult the Anthology of Scorsese: Layla, Jumping Jack Flash, or Movin’ Out (Anthony’s Song).

Alternatively, the Anthology of Tarantino: Little Green Bag, Hold Tight, Stuck in the Middle With You

I’d also suggest For Whom the Bell Tolls… perhaps played by 2Cellos for that extra cinematic kick.

What would the Coens do?

350
jaunte  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:21:45am

“…The star was cleaned up within four hours, though black specks can still be seen.
Last year Trump’s star was vandalised with a pickaxe.”
irishexaminer.com

351
wrenchwench  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:22:36am

re: #349 HappyWarrior

What would the Coens do?

‘Shut up Donnie’.

352
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:22:49am
353
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:23:28am
354
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:24:07am

re: #346 HappyWarrior

That reminds me of my Great Gatsby copy. I like having old copies of things like that though. I keep a bunch of stuff on my TV desk including the wit and wisdom of Lincoln.

I have a second edition of All Quiet on the Western Front in German from 1930.

I still switch to the German soundtrack when I watch the film version on DVD

355
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:24:41am

Libertarians trying to capitalismsplain Jesus:

356
makeitstop  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:25:00am

Fucking asshole.

Hit every single one of them with contempt of Congress and jail their asses.

All. Of. Them.

357
gocart mozart  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:25:22am
358
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:30:00am

When the next Democratic President gets elected, the GOP and RWNJs are going to double standard the living fuck out of things. Minor infractions that are nowhere near the insanity of half the shit Trump pulled will be followed by screams of: Uncivilized! Ilegal! IMPEACHEMENT!!.

I hope whoever it is that gets elected is prepared for the inevitable shitstorm of unfair and unequal treatment that’s sure to follow.

359
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:30:56am

re: #358 Eclectic Cyborg

When the next Democratic President gets elected, the GOP and RWNJs are going to double standard the living fuck out of things. Minor infractions that are nowhere near the insanity of half the shit Trump pulled will be followed by screams of: Uncivilized! Ilegal! IMPEACHEMENT!!.

I hope whoever it is that gets elected is prepared for the inevitable shitstorm of unfair and unequal treatment that’s sure to follow.

They saw what happened to Obama

360
jaunte  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:32:49am
361
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:37:23am

re: #360 jaunte

You know what winners do?

Winners who are totally exonerated and in the clear?

They go on a three-day ragetweeting bender.

What I did when I found out my GF had been cheating on me with a Guitarist from Aberdeen…

362
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:38:46am

Trump’s going to fight all the subpoenas, because that’s how you show you’re a transparent leader.

Nope. The reality is that Trump’s fighting for his political survival because revealing all the dirty details that would be uncovered in the ongoing oversight and investigative acts by Congress would form basis for his impeachment.

363
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:39:22am

Maggie is trying to crowdsource her journalism facts.

364
jaunte  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:40:09am

re: #361 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

A Guitarist from Aberdeen, the updated Person from Porlock.

365
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:40:16am

re: #363 The Vicious Babushka

Maggie is trying to crowdsource her journalism facts.

[Embedded content]

Bullshit. He’s denied Russian involvement several times and tried to blame China. He’s a lying sack of shit.

366
jaunte  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:42:17am

How low an ambition for your personal life, to be Sarah Huckabee Sanders’ liar understudy.

367
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:42:31am

re: #363 The Vicious Babushka

Maggie is trying to crowdsource her journalism facts.

You can’t prove a negative, so if Gidley has proof, he needs to show it.

368
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:42:37am

re: #365 HappyWarrior

Bullshit. He’s denied Russian involvement several times and tried to blame China. He’s a lying sack of shit.

And he also accused Hillary Clinton of being “TEH REALL COLLUSIONS!!!!”

369
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:43:26am
370
makeitstop  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:44:48am

re: #362 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Trump’s going to fight all the subpoenas, because that’s how you show you’re a transparent leader.

Nope. The reality is that Trump’s fighting for his political survival because revealing all the dirty details that would be uncovered in the ongoing oversight and investigative acts by Congress would form basis for his impeachment.

Congress had better make an example of one of these clowns, and fast. Max fine, jail until they comply, and repeat as necessary.

371
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:44:55am

re: #355 The Vicious Babushka

Libertarians trying to capitalismsplain Jesus:

[Embedded content]

This only makes sense if you believe the retcon that Jesus talking about the Kingdom of God wasn’t actually talking about creating a real kingdom during his lifetime.

372
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:45:31am

re: #363 The Vicious Babushka

Maggie is trying to crowdsource her journalism facts.

[Embedded content]

I don’t know if that’s crowdsourcing or just a longer version of “the fuck you say?”

373
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:46:20am

re: #364 jaunte

A Guitarist from Aberdeen, the updated Person from Porlock.

I was the banjo player from Gary, and she dumped her previous ex the same way she dumped me.

As I heard, the guitarist did not even stick around, now she is together with the guy who lined her up with her coke dealer…

…whom I had introduced to her some years ago.

I should not be this bitter about it nearly 2 years after the fact, but she played a mean-ass fiddle. Still miss that. She could rip the Buck Dharma solo to Don’t Fear the Reaper enough to make you wanna duck the scythe.

374
Mike Lamb  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:50:17am

re: #356 makeitstop

Fucking asshole.

[Embedded content]

Hit every single one of them with contempt of Congress and jail their asses.

All. Of. Them.

I try not to get hyperbolic, but we’re rapidly approaching a constitutional crisis on this. Apparently, the media is looking for the ratings boost by portraying this as partisan politics.

375
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:50:52am

re: #374 Mike Lamb

I try not to get hyperbolic, but we’re rapidly approaching a constitutional crisis on this. Apparently, the media is looking for the ratings boost by portraying this as partisan politics.

THIS.

376
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:51:41am

And, if POTUS and his people managed to beat all the subpoenas, the House Committees essentially become defanged and useless.

377
Joe Bacon 🌹  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:51:54am

re: #374 Mike Lamb

I try not to get hyperbolic, but we’re rapidly approaching a constitutional crisis on this. Apparently, the media is looking for the ratings boost by portraying this as partisan politics.

Once again the CCCP is in the Republican Stenographer Mode.

378
Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:54:05am

re: #376 Eclectic Cyborg

And, if POTUS and his people managed to beat all the subpoenas, the House Committees essentially become defanged and useless.

Only if it benefits Republicans. I’m sure that if a Democrat tried the same with some demand from a Senate committee they’d get nowhere but a jail cell.

379
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:56:32am

re: #374 Mike Lamb

I try not to get hyperbolic, but we’re rapidly approaching a constitutional crisis on this. Apparently, the media is looking for the ratings boost by portraying this as partisan politics.

This is why Jon Stewart is missed. He was better than just about anyone else at looking at the media and getting them to pay attention to him.

380
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:57:11am

JFC

381
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Apr 24, 2019 • 10:57:47am

re: #374 Mike Lamb

I try not to get hyperbolic, but we’re rapidly approaching a constitutional crisis on this. Apparently, the media is looking for the ratings boost by portraying this as partisan politics.

As I mentioned earlier, we are used to seeing everything presented to us as partisan politics. Which is why problems go unsolved.

382
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:00:45am

The feral hog crisis has reached a new level in Australia. Trump probably thinks his wall will keep them out of this country.
Pig Steals Campers Beer, Gets Drunk & Starts a Fight With a Cow

383
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:01:34am

re: #381 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

As I mentioned earlier, we are used to seeing everything presented to us as partisan politics. Which is why problems go unsolved.

Yep. How the fuck can you compromise when there’s always got to be a winner and loser?

384
Targetpractice  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:01:58am

Trump’s simply falling back on old habits: When cornered, threaten to take the other side to court. Either they’ll back down and he can squirm his way out, they’ll go to court and he’ll drag things out until it becomes too costly to do more than settle, or he buys his way out of trouble.

385
Barefoot Grin  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:02:30am
386
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:02:35am

re: #384 Targetpractice

Trump’s simply falling back on old habits: When cornered, threaten to take the other side to court. Either they’ll back down and he can squirm his way out, they’ll go to court and he’ll drag things out until it becomes too costly to do more than settle, or he buys his way out of trouble.

Except he can’t buy his way out of this one.

387
lawhawk  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:03:31am

re: #380 The Vicious Babushka

Trump is the meatspace version of Mad King Targaryen. He’s insane, fact free, and lies about everything to everyone.

That’s on the heels of his nonsensical ravings that he could go to the Supreme Court to block impeachment. That’s not how any of this works, and is in keeping with getting legal advice from Louise Mensch or other know nothing fools - knowing full well the GOP base are just as ignorant about the facts or the law or the Constitution as Trump.

388
retired cynic  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:04:58am

OK, a friend sent me this this morning (note, two thises in a row!):

19 Times The English Language Made Absolutely No Sense Whatsoever
buzzfeed.com

I have laughed myself silly.

389
Targetpractice  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:05:04am

re: #386 Eclectic Cyborg

Except he can’t buy his way out of this one.

That’s what he’s expecting the the Senate GOP majority to have done for him by packing the courts.

390
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:06:29am

re: #362 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Trump’s going to fight all the subpoenas, because that’s how you show you’re a transparent leader.

Nope. The reality is that Trump’s fighting for his political survival because revealing all the dirty details that would be uncovered in the ongoing oversight and investigative acts by Congress would form basis for his impeachment.

Current potential articles of impeachment:

1-10: obstruction of justice (one article for each example in the Mueller report)
11: emoluments clauses violations
12: abuse of power (declaration of national emergency per Youngstown Steel)
13: contempt of Congress (failing to comply with valid subpoenas), this could be multiple articles like the obstruction of justice articles
14: campaign finance violations (Stormy Daniels/Russia/Wikileaks)
15: graft/corruption (this was used against Secretary of War Belknap)

Some of those could probably involve multiple articles. And there’s probably a few more articles that you could draw up.

391
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:06:43am

re: #369 The Vicious Babushka

POTUS today:

“Now Mueller, I assume… checked my taxes, checked my financials, which are great… all you have to do is go look at the records, they’re all over the place. But they checked my financials, and they checked my taxes.”

I went to the WaPo site looking for the “I’ll take my impeachment to the SC” story and that clip was at the top of the page. I made the mistake of listening to all three’ish minutes of it. Great Cthulhu, the incoherence.

392
Belafon  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:06:44am

re: #384 Targetpractice

Trump’s simply falling back on old habits: When cornered, threaten to take the other side to court. Either they’ll back down and he can squirm his way out, they’ll go to court and he’ll drag things out until it becomes too costly to do more than settle, or he buys his way out of trouble.

I suspect John Lews and Elijah Cummings aren’t exactly bothered by Trump’s “threats.”

393
KGxvi  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:09:30am

re: #388 retired cynic

OK, a friend sent me this this morning (note, two thises in a row!):

19 Times The English Language Made Absolutely No Sense Whatsoever
buzzfeed.com

I have laughed myself silly.

I think if you have the same word repeated like your thises (thisi?) the correct rule is to put a comma between them: a friend sent me this, this morning. I think.

394
makeitstop  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:09:33am

re: #392 Belafon

I suspect John Lews and Elijah Cummings aren’t exactly bothered by Trump’s “threats.”

They’d better be ready to go to the wall on this. So to speak.

Hardball this motherfucker.

395
Targetpractice  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:10:14am

re: #392 Belafon

I suspect John Lews and Elijah Cummings aren’t exactly bothered by Trump’s “threats.”

Hence the “drag it through the courts” bit. Either the courts find in his favor and the subpoenas go away. Or they rule against him, but he’s burned enough time that there’s no real chance of being impeached before the elections.

396
gocart mozart  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:11:56am
397
gocart mozart  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:12:27am
398
jaunte  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:13:20am

re: #396 gocart mozart

“Polonius 1;3”

399
Teukka  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:14:33am

re: #397 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

400
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:15:04am

Before 2016, 4chan trolls did the Fake Twitter attacks on Black women:

401
Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:15:54am

re: #388 retired cynic

Hahahahaha, that was great. A bit mildly depressing, but great. :P

402
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:16:21am

re: #400 The Vicious Babushka

Before 2016, 4chan trolls did the Fake Twitter attacks on Black women:

[Embedded content]

Not surprised.

403
gwangung  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:17:37am

re: #402 HappyWarrior

Not surprised.

And all these women were ignored or derided.

Also not surprised.

404
HappyWarrior  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:18:25am

re: #403 gwangung

And all these women were ignored or derided.

Also not surprised.

Yep.

405
Mattand  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:20:40am

re: #374 Mike Lamb

I try not to get hyperbolic, but we’re rapidly approaching a constitutional crisis on this. Apparently, the media is looking for the ratings boost by portraying this as partisan politics.

Which feeds into the fucking idiot “independents” and their Magic Balance Fairy viewpoint.

Trump and the Republicans don’t go down unless the “normals”, the people who barely follow this stuff (if at all), wake the fuck up. Unfortunately, as the whole “Both sides suck” narrative is fucking hardwired into most Americans, it’s probably going to take Trump boasting on Hannity’s show “Yeah, I’m a crook, and my followers and most Americans are too stupid to see the obvious.”

406
BlueGrl21  Apr 24, 2019 • 11:24:40am

If Trump has to be dragged out of office there is only one song i want to hear in the background….”Cowboy” by Kid Rock.

Well I’m packing up my game and I’mma head out west
Where real women come equipped with scripts and fake breasts
Find a nest in the Hills, chill like Flynt
Buy an old drop-top find a spot to pimp

Start an escort service for all the right reasons
And set up shop at the top of Four Seasons
Kid Rock and I’m the real McCoy
And I’m headed out west sucker because I wanna be a

Cowboy baby
With the top let back and the sunshine shining
Cowboy baby
West Coast chilling with the Boone’s wine
I wanna be a Cowboy baby
Riding at night ‘cause I sleep all day
Cowboy baby
I can smell a pig from a mile away

No kidding, gun slinging, spurs hitting the floor
Call me hoss, I’m the boss, with the sauce and the whores
No remorse for the sheriff, in his eye I ain’t right
I’mma paint his town red, then paint his wife white

Cause chaos, rock like Amadeus
Find West Coast ***^ for my Detroit players
Mack like mayors, ball like Lakers
They told us to leave, but bet they can’t make us

Why they wanna pick on me
Lock me up and snort away my key
I ain’t no G, I’m just a regular failure
I ain’t straight outta Compton
I’m straight out the trailer

407
gocart mozart  Apr 24, 2019 • 12:06:15pm

re: #399 Teukka

Should have wrote that

408
unproven innocence  Apr 24, 2019 • 12:08:05pm

re: #317 Man, DangerMan

also check your registration status early enough in advance of the next election

(afternoon all)

When I’m told I’ll remain on the voter rolls provided I vote at least every 4 years, I am NOT reassured, as “4 years” is ambiguous: “4 years, plus or minus 1 to 6 days” between presidential elections is the reality, but what the RULE is —that’s unclear.

409
Eventual Carrion  Apr 24, 2019 • 1:16:18pm

re: #366 jaunte

How low an ambition for your personal life, to be Sarah Huckabee Sanders’ liar understudy.

Like assistant crack whore.

h/t to the comedian that I heard say that was the worse profession. Don’t remember which one.


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