Ensemble Signal Plays Jonny Greenwood: NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert [VIDEO]

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May 20, 2019 | Jonny Greenwood — I’ve watched a lot of Tiny Desk concerts over the years. It’s good to see musicians in the raw, away from stage lighting and backing tracks — as if they’ve just stopped by an office to play over a lunch break, with desk-bound employees watching on. The performances should expose flaws, but instead they tend to expose musicians being casually brilliant, like the members of Ensemble Signal, who certainly play these pieces beautifully.

Unfortunately, I was nowhere near Washington, D.C. for this recording. And I still find it bizarre that you can put a musical idea on paper and have it reproduced at such a distance — and with such added life. We’re used to sounds and images being shared as exact clones of one another, but the pleasure in using ink and paper is that the music is interpreted rather than just reproduced. All those years of practice, in all those players, distilled into 15 minutes of music. It’s a big privilege — and a continuing motivation to write the best I can.

The first piece, Three Miniatures from Water, was originally a sketch for an Australian Chamber Orchestra commission in 2014. I thought it’d be easier to approach writing for full orchestra by starting with a piano miniature and scaling it up. In fact, only some of the material made it to the final commission, and I always felt the original three miniatures hung together well enough as its own piece of music.

I’m a big admirer of composer Olivier Messiaen, and one of the musical scales he favored was the octatonic mode. It’s a lot like an Indian rag in that it’s a rigid set of notes, yet isn’t necessarily in a major or minor key. There are hundreds of rags in Indian music, but I was surprised to find that Messiaen’s octatonic scale isn’t one of them. Despite this, it sits nicely over a drone — and that was the starting point for this music. That and the glorious sound of the tanpura, the drone instrument that underpins everything in classical Indian music.

The piece is called Water, after the Philip Larkin poem with the same title, and was especially inspired by the final stanza:

And I should raise in the east
A glass of water
Where any-angled light
Would congregate endlessly.

The second piece, called 88 (No. 1), is also in one of Messiaen’s modes in the first half, before becoming a celebration of the mechanical nature of the piano. The performer has to put fingerless gloves on halfway through, partly in tribute to the immortal Glenn Gould, and partly because the technique requires some painful hammering. But don’t let that fool you into thinking the music is dark or angry: It is — or is meant to be — joyful.

SET LIST
Three Miniatures from Water
88 (No. 1)

MUSICIANS
Ensemble Signal:
Lisa Moore: piano; Olivia De Prato: violin; Lauren Radnofsky: cello; Greg Chudzik: bass; Paul Coleman and Elena Moon Park: tanpura

CREDITS
Producers: Tom Huizenga, Morgan Noelle Smith; Creative Director: Bob Boilen; Audio Engineer: Josh Rogosin; Mixed by Jonny Greenwood; Videographers: Morgan Noelle Smith, Bronson Arcuri, Kaylee Domzalski, Kimani Oletu; Associate Producer: Bobby Carter; Photo: Amr Alfiky/NPR

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182 comments
1
Belafon  May 27, 2019 • 8:48:31pm
2
austin_blue  May 27, 2019 • 8:59:24pm

CVN-81 & 82 were ordered in Jan. with EM Cats. Steel starts getting cut in 2023 & 2027.
Returning to steam Cats would require a complete redesign of the Ford-class carriers

Listening to recording, he said he’s going to put out an order requiring this:

President Trump says that with the next aircraft carrier order, he’s going to require steam catapults not electric, which have had cost and time overruns. He also surveyed sailors on whether they prefer steam or electric.

Trump in 2017: “I said what system are you going to be-‘Sir, we’re staying with digital.’ I said no you’re not. You going to goddamned steam, the digital costs hundreds of millions of dollars more money and it’s no good.” bit.ly

Does he still think that carriers are powered by coal and that steam is more efficient? He’s a complete idiot and has no idea about any advance in
technology works.

Can we please get rid of this incredibly stupid motherfucker?

3
austin_blue  May 27, 2019 • 9:20:19pm

re: #2 austin_blue

CVN-81 & 82 were ordered in Jan. with EM Cats. Steel starts getting cut in 2023 & 2027.
Returning to steam Cats would require a complete redesign of the Ford-class carriers

Listening to recording, he said he’s going to put out an order requiring this:

President Trump says that with the next aircraft carrier order, he’s going to require steam catapults not electric, which have had cost and time overruns. He also surveyed sailors on whether they prefer steam or electric.

Trump in 2017: “I said what system are you going to be-‘Sir, we’re staying with digital.’ I said no you’re not. You going to goddamned steam, the digital costs hundreds of millions of dollars more money and it’s no good.” bit.ly

Does he still think that carriers are powered by coal and that steam is more efficient? He’s a complete idiot and has no idea about any advance in
technology works.

Can we please get rid of this incredibly stupid motherfucker?

And goodnight, all, sweet scaly dreams.

4
Joe Bacon 🌹  May 27, 2019 • 9:26:28pm

re: #3 austin_blue

And goodnight, all, sweet scaly dreams.

You can always count on President Shithead kneecapping the Armed Forces…

5
William Lewis  May 27, 2019 • 9:41:47pm

Perhap’s CL’d so, here’s this in case you miss it downstairs.

re: #215 ckkatz

Don’t take Cooper very seriously. The numbers don’t agree with him.

Myths of American Armor. TankFest Northwest 2015

US AFV Development in WW2, or, “Why the Sherman was what it was”

6
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 27, 2019 • 9:42:13pm
7
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 27, 2019 • 9:44:54pm

re: #6 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Quiet piano solos are good for night time listening… though that video’s performances I find a bit flat, as in uninspired, too mechanical. Competent, but not much more than that.

8
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  May 27, 2019 • 9:49:22pm
9
Scout  May 27, 2019 • 9:52:08pm

re: #8 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Gee, if it’s “Memorial Day” here, I should have the day off from work.

But on a serious note, this is just absolutely horrible:

Kawasaki stabbing rampage leaves three dead, including schoolgirl and suspect; 16 injured

10
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 27, 2019 • 9:53:22pm

One reason I play the Liberace videos is not because he was a great technical pianist (he was), but because he was a great performer.

And that makes the difference.

Being a performer is different than being a good technician.

A live performance is an interaction between the performer and the audience.

For a pianist working a “classical” (meaning formal, as in written on sheet music, and serious, as in enduring) piece that means communicating subtleties, given that one has to use very small variations (in timing, in stroking the keys or working the pedals) to communicate one’s own personal styles.

So that is why I like Liberace, because even if he is giving a schmaltzy performance, it is still a performance and not just an exercise.

Youtube is full of classical music, but many of the performances lack depth or meaning.

11
Joe Bacon 🌹  May 27, 2019 • 9:58:29pm

Remembering Vincent Price on his birthday.

He said this gave him a lot of joy because he always wanted to sing in a Gilbert & Sullivan musical

Here he is as Sir Despard Murgatroyd in Ruddigore

Vincent Price sings Moody & Sad

12
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 27, 2019 • 10:08:28pm

For example, in that long-play Halidon video at 34:18, Faulkner plays the wonderful little Respighi piece “6 Pieces for Piano: No. 3, Notturno”. It’s ok but I find it a bit boring.

Conversely, two other recordings offer better versions (both from Naxos).

A recent release: 6 Pezzi, P. 44: No. 3. Notturno

And an older recording: Riccardo Sandiford plays Respighi 6 Pieces for piano (Notturno)

You can hear the differences in pianos, and pianists. Both the latter recording I find more engaging than the Faulkner version.

13
Teukka  May 27, 2019 • 10:13:35pm

“Chernobyl”. Episode 4. “For the Happiness of All Mankind”. Another damn tough episode, this time about the workof the “liquidators” and “bio-robots”. A damn dangerous but oh so necessary work. The mantra “time, distance, mass” comes to mind.
🤮

14
Hecuba's daughter  May 27, 2019 • 10:20:25pm

re: #13 Teukka

“Chernobyl”. Episode 4. “For the Happiness of All Mankind”. Another damn tough episode, this time about the workof the “liquidators” and “bio-robots”. A damn dangerous but oh so necessary work. The mantra “time, distance, mass” comes to mind.
🤮

If the Russians had told the truth, would we have had any equipment that could have been used? Or were humans the only option for clearing the roof? And did the NSA or any of our other intelligence agencies know how serious the accident actually was and the danger it posed?

15
DodgerFan1988  May 27, 2019 • 10:28:14pm
16
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 27, 2019 • 10:28:22pm

re: #14 Hecuba’s daughter

If the Russians had told the truth, would we have had any equipment that could have been used? Or were humans the only option for clearing the roof? And did the NSA or any of our other intelligence agencies know how serious the accident actually was and the danger it posed?

IIRC, it was US spy satellite images which were initially used to confirm what was happening, even before radioactive isotopes were falling out of the sky in northeastern Europe.

Once the reactors got hot enough they could be detected in IR from space.

17
Teukka  May 27, 2019 • 10:30:00pm

re: #14 Hecuba’s daughter

If the Russians had told the truth, would we have had any equipment that could have been used? Or were humans the only option for clearing the roof? And did the NSA or any of our other intelligence agencies know how serious the accident actually was and the danger it posed?

Most likely no. And the US basically did the same routine when recovering two out of three bodies out of the SL-1 building, men were given 60 seconds each to do their task. That’s what “Time, Distance, Mass” boils down to in extreme circumstances.

What 10 Sv (10,000 rtg) does to electronics:

10 Sievert per Hour Radiation - tested with the RadioactivityCounter App at the Buchler device

18
Eclectic Cyborg  May 27, 2019 • 10:36:13pm

re: #15 DodgerFan1988

Mjolnir? As in Thors Hammer? What the hell?

19
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 27, 2019 • 10:38:13pm

re: #18 Eclectic Cyborg

White supremacists are still enamored with Viking/Norse legends.

See Trump and his comment about wanting immigrants to be more like Norwegians.

20
Hecuba's daughter  May 27, 2019 • 10:54:13pm

re: #17 Teukka

Most likely no. And the US basically did the same routine when recovering two out of three bodies out of the SL-1 building, men were given 60 seconds each to do their task. That’s what “Time, Distance, Mass” boils down to in extreme circumstances.

What 10 Sv (10,000 rtg) does to electronics:

[Embedded content]

The SL-1 accident was in 1961. Chernobyl was 1986. During the intervening quarter century, we must have developed more sophisticated equipment to operate in these circumstances, but perhaps the level in Chernobyl was too high given our current level of technology.

21
ckkatz  May 27, 2019 • 11:03:33pm

re: #5 William Lewis

Just watched to the first video. I found it very good. Thanks for posting it!

The second video will need to wait until later in the week, unfortunately.

The speaker actually liked the Cooper book and recommended it. However, the speaker also pointed out that the Cooper book is a memoir not a peer reviewed article. I agree with that observation.

He did point out why Cooper was wrong on Patton. (Cooper claimed that Patton was able to prevent the US Army from designing an improved tank that would fix the Sherman’s faults.) The Army did not work that way. There were very specific organizations in the Army that handled these core tasks. And Patton was not in these organizations.

And he also showed where the meme of needing 5 Shermans against any German tank came from. The smallest unit tank unit you could send was a platoon. Which just happened to have had 5 tanks. It was an organizational thing, not a qualitative thing.

All in all, quite an interesting talk. Thanks for posting it!

22
goddamnedfrank  May 27, 2019 • 11:14:28pm
23
Teukka  May 27, 2019 • 11:35:00pm

re: #20 Hecuba’s daughter

The SL-1 accident was in 1961. Chernobyl was 1986. During the intervening quarter century, we must have developed more sophisticated equipment to operate in these circumstances, but perhaps the level in Chernobyl was too high given our current level of technology.

That’s the thing, there isn’t that much. Intense radiation like that affects electronics, and the more miniaturized it is, the greater the effect. Like you saw in the video clip, that’s gamma hitting the image sensor. BTW, I’ve seen some alt-reality afficianados claim that nukes have been used in Yemen, yet none of the videos display that effect, which they would if in the vicinity of a nuclear blast, if the camera wouldn’t crash from the EMP, that is.

Metals get neutron activated and their properties change, usually for the worse, metals such as cables the robots themselves.
Same with hydraulics, neutron activation and derating of the hydraulic oil.
Same with plastics, such as cable isolation and wheels.
Sure, you have more efficient shielding these days, such as Graded-Z shielding, but that only helps so so much.
Also, to further complicate things, in that harsh a gamma environment, you also have Bremsstrahlung caused by gamma rays hitting stuff.

24
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 27, 2019 • 11:52:49pm

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

Noticed he used the term “oilstone” and not “whetstone”.

Back when I was a child I remember a whetstone around, for sharpening knives.

25
goddamnedfrank  May 27, 2019 • 11:53:26pm

re: #23 Teukka

That’s the thing, there isn’t that. Intense radiation like that affects electronics, and the more miniaturized it is, the greater the effect. Like you saw in the video clip, that’s gamma hitting the image sensor. BTW, I’ve seen some alt-reality afficianados claim that nukes have been used in Yemen, yet none of the videos display that effect, which they would if in the vicinity of a nuclear blast, if the camera wouldn’t crash from the EMP, that is.

Metals get neutron activated and their properties change, usually for the worse, metals such as cables the robots themselves.
Same with hydraulics, neutron activation and derating of the hydraulic oil.
Same with plastics, such as cable isolation and wheels.
Sure, you have more efficient shielding these days, such as Graded-Z shielding, but that only help so so much.
Also, to further complicate things, in that harsh a gamma environment, you also have Bremsstrahlung caused by gamma rays hitting stuff.

Exactly, generally the only way to shield sensors from “seeing” higher frequencies than they are optimally designed to detect is via the properties of the optics and filters placed in front, and gamma is an absolute motherfucker that pretty much just punches through everything. This is why almost all practical and semi-affordable thermal wavelength sensors are based on micro-bolometers positioned behind germanium metalloid lenses, which have a curious “window” in the thermal range but become conveniently opaque in what we call “optical” (ie detectable by the human eye), near IR (not detectable by humans but not quite “thermal”) and UV frequencies.

26
Teukka  May 27, 2019 • 11:55:31pm

re: #25 goddamnedfrank

Exactly, generally the only way to shield sensors from “seeing” higher level wavelengths than they are optimally designed to detect is via the properties of the optics and filters placed in front, and gamma is an absolute motherfucker that pretty much just punches through everything. This is why almost all practical and semi-affordable thermal wavelength sensors are based on micro-bolometers positioned behind germanium metalloid lenses, which have a curious “window” in the thermal range but become conveniently opaque in what we call “optical” (ie detectable by the human eye), near IR (not detectable by humans by not quite “thermal”) and UV frequencies.

Gamma rays = Asshole fotons = Assholeons?

27
goddamnedfrank  May 27, 2019 • 11:58:52pm

re: #26 Teukka

Gamma rays = Asshole fotons = Assholeons?

Correction: In the the first sentence of my unedited post I said wavelength when I meant frequency, and because they’re inversely related I can’t just let it go that shit is important for people to understand.

28
Teukka  May 28, 2019 • 12:00:50am

re: #27 goddamnedfrank

Correction: In the the first sentence of my unedited post I said wavelength when I mean frequency, because they’re inversely related and I can’t just let it go because that shit is important for people to understand.

Being a ham, I know. I also know it being o’ dark sharp where you are, and that you are most likely hypocaffeinated. You’re forgiven ;)

29
Barefoot Grin  May 28, 2019 • 12:01:03am

re: #9 Scout

Gee, if it’s “Memorial Day” here, I should have the day off from work.

But on a serious note, this is just absolutely horrible:

Kawasaki stabbing rampage leaves three dead, including schoolgirl and suspect; 16 injured

I lived in that neighborhood with my wife and 7-month-old child for a year in 2002. When I carried my kid on my back, being stabbed from behind was actually a worry I had.

30
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 28, 2019 • 12:04:58am

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

Those old style high-end vises fetch a pretty penny these days. I see that Gressel now offers modern designs - also expensive.

31
goddamnedfrank  May 28, 2019 • 12:57:43am

Jordan B Peterson’s fanatic followers super fun and always a treat.

32
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 12:58:38am

Rock-hard lobsters!

33
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 28, 2019 • 1:16:17am
34
Teukka  May 28, 2019 • 1:16:18am
35
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 1:24:59am

re: #34 Teukka

WARNING: There it is: The Trump Show Trials. Lewandowski lays out the plan to put Obama, Biden, Clapper, Brennen & Comey on trial in an election year. Tyrant’s Playbook 101

Will he release the price tag for the investigations? Will the FBI report be published unredacted?

36
teleskiguy  May 28, 2019 • 1:28:47am

re: #35 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Will he release the price tag for the investigations? Will the FBI report be published unredacted?

Better not tell you now. It is decidedly so.

37
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 28, 2019 • 1:36:45am

Ohio had another night of devastating tornadoes:

38
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 1:37:50am

re: #37 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Snow plows getting extra duty tonight on I-75 north of downtown Dayton as crews clear tornado debris. Avoid the area.

Snow plows out in may?

So much for Global Warming, libtards!!!

39
teleskiguy  May 28, 2019 • 1:42:24am

re: #38 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Snow plows out in may?

In Colorado this is normal. When they’re plowing snow on the high passes in August, that’s something to write home about.

40
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 28, 2019 • 1:43:27am

re: #38 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Snow plows out in may?

So much for Global Warming, libtards!!!

The plows are clearing debris from the roads.

But I get your point…

41
teleskiguy  May 28, 2019 • 1:43:55am

So Fuckface Von Clownstick has tweeted support for tornado victims in Oklahoma, not yet for Ohio. Fox News must not have broadcasted anything about Dayton yet.

42
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 28, 2019 • 1:44:35am

Tornados also destroyed houses in Iowa, and were in other states as well:

spc.noaa.gov

43
teleskiguy  May 28, 2019 • 1:46:32am

NPoaWotxQIxeNJx9fJ/LI7FYbjMNqGDABFdznXyx3PFLNkft4NIhsY5Bjw18Od88q+3MIGxh65kDkZ/vEzXc1a1bwx5NBlu6Q/n/m4iquqZQquCKBxVd9dbXVjuAdll03/scbFsqiCCF2HzpDqeRfF74IMz74aUQ89LH0WmrB2w7b1zUMHObjXO7+iFwg18IWflSYrXfhrBlyZFnPVhHfvc5st/HUIyrceC1OuCFK9AsCRB2n1dnRO03pON0tGHf6He2vHCRwW73r8LlkQz4js3MhE/Nb9YGWzIvoseRsqhemwAw/SP871+EGysaO2Ns25stRP/KRJN4+6wxtqyzHySTzCwyEt1mp+7eg15pWs2WQFLqq9TFNTGdV7Uc0FUM

44
teleskiguy  May 28, 2019 • 2:01:40am

Taking the *extra scenic* route home after a long weekend of very fun concerts by The Disco Biscuits. I’m in Santa Fe.

46
teleskiguy  May 28, 2019 • 2:09:32am

I drove more or less right next to the Sangre de Cristo Mountain Range north to south today. Beautiful countryside. The Wet Mountain Valley. Cucharas Pass. Cimarron State Park, the burn scar there is as bad as it gets on the east side, highway signs are now erected that say BURN SCAR, FLOODING POSSIBLE. Still, that’s a pretty drive into Taos. Then I went to the big bridge over the gorge, went to the middle of the bridge (that’s a long way down!) then drove to Santa Fe, where I got lost and it took me 90 minutes to get a hotel room, get some beers, and some food.

And shit, it’s three fucking a.m.!

I’ve always wanted to ride the Sandia Tram. Think I’ll do that tomorrow. Though that’s in Albuquerque, 50 miles distant.

47
teleskiguy  May 28, 2019 • 2:11:37am

Still a lot of snow in the high mountains for this time of year, even in New Mexico.

48
Dave In Austin  May 28, 2019 • 2:12:52am

re: #30 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Those old style high-end vises fetch a pretty penny these days. I see that Gressel now offers modern designs - also expensive.

I just recently purchased a 5” post/leg vice for the forge. What a beast. Prolly weighs at least 80lbs. I’ll get pics up once she’s mounted to the bench.

49
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 28, 2019 • 2:15:04am
50
teleskiguy  May 28, 2019 • 2:18:14am

You can alway count on freetoken for the weather action. 🤪

51
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 2:18:56am

re: #49 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

An Indiana tornado yesterday was photogenic:

We lived close enough to Lake Michigan to be spared tornadoes when I grew up there, but I recall a neighbor telling me as a kid that there had been a tornado in Dyer. Dunno why, but that is one of those memories that has remained with me since childhood.

52
teleskiguy  May 28, 2019 • 2:33:56am
53
teleskiguy  May 28, 2019 • 2:40:41am

Taken yesterday on a mountain about 30 miles from my house. Ye Gods! That cornice is fucking huge.

54
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 2:46:41am

re: #53 teleskiguy

Taken yesterday on a mountain about 30 miles from my house. Ye Gods! That cornice is fucking huge.

looks dangerous AF

55
teleskiguy  May 28, 2019 • 2:49:23am

re: #54 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

looks dangerous AF

The hikers in the picture are safe. It’s when you venture out to get a peek over the edge where it gets dangerous as fuck.

That’s the mark of a deep snowpack in the Colorado Rockies. Lots of snow, and it’s only starting to run off into the streams. Oh, but wait! Snow is in the forecast for the next day or two in the high mountains of Colorado. #mayuary

56
teleskiguy  May 28, 2019 • 2:59:22am

re: #55 teleskiguy

Most of that snow fell in about three weeks, end of February into March. We got crushed, some places got two, three feet every day for a week. That was the week of the catastrophic once-in-a-lifetime avalanches that occurred all over the mountains of Colorado.

Disney March 5, 2019

57
austin_blue  May 28, 2019 • 5:17:27am

re: #19 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

White supremacists are still enamored with Viking/Norse legends.

See Trump and his comment about wanting immigrants to be more like Norwegians.

The farther north you go, the whiter and less likely of race mixing you are. Duh.

(The fact that Vikings ruled Sicily and Malta at one point is lost on these bozos. Then again, duh.)

58
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 5:27:01am

re: #57 austin_blue

The farther north you go, the whiter and less likely of race mixing you are. Duh.

(The fact that Vikings ruled Sicily and Malta at one point is lost on these bozos. Then again, duh.)

They were all the way up the Dvina and down the Volga to the Black Sea and beyond.

But they idolize a myth of racial purity that is a good excuse to behave like assholes.

And being an asshole is all that matters.

59
jeffreyw  May 28, 2019 • 5:34:32am

Good morning!

60
austin_blue  May 28, 2019 • 5:55:30am

re: #58 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

They were all the way up the Dvina and down the Volga to the Black Sea and beyond.

But they idolize a myth of racial purity that is a good excuse to behave like assholes.

And being an asshole is all that matters.

First raiders, then traders. Their longboats spanned the Western Hemisphere from Canada through Greenland, Iceland the Islands of western Scotland to Ireland, the Med and Russia. They had the largest trading empire in the West at one time. They were the original rulers of the seas, and it made them rich after they realized that it was better, and more lucrative, to trade than raid and plunder.

The bloody red hand of Ulster was directly from Norse lore.

But you are correct in saying that the myth of racial purity is embraced by idiots who take a (very) shallow dive into history.

61
lawhawk  May 28, 2019 • 6:07:30am

re: #2 austin_blue

CVN-81 & 82 were ordered in Jan. with EM Cats. Steel starts getting cut in 2023 & 2027.
Returning to steam Cats would require a complete redesign of the Ford-class carriers

Listening to recording, he said he’s going to put out an order requiring this:

President Trump says that with the next aircraft carrier order, he’s going to require steam catapults not electric, which have had cost and time overruns. He also surveyed sailors on whether they prefer steam or electric.

Trump in 2017: “I said what system are you going to be-‘Sir, we’re staying with digital.’ I said no you’re not. You going to goddamned steam, the digital costs hundreds of millions of dollars more money and it’s no good.” bit.ly

Does he still think that carriers are powered by coal and that steam is more efficient? He’s a complete idiot and has no idea about any advance in
technology works.

Can we please get rid of this incredibly stupid motherfucker?

Not soon enough.

Trump is a reactionary know nothing whose idiotic policies are damaging to our national security. The Navy didn’t make the decision to move to EMAL lightly. They’ve been using steam catapults for 60 years. It’s a proven technology.

It’s just got massive and significant limitations. It makes it harder to launch and recover things like UAVs, heavily laden planes, lightly laden planes, and everything in between. It also can potentially launch aircraft faster, and speed is life when it comes to a carrier sending its primary asset into battle.

So, the move to put the new Ford class ships back to steam will require not only a major refit of systems and redesign of the below deck spaces (that were freed up thanks to the EMAL system), but carrier operations will not advance to include additional UAV capabilities.

Mazel tov.

62
Amory Blaine  May 28, 2019 • 6:09:10am

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

I’m on the lookout for a big old vise. Prices are sky high, so my wait continues.

63
Feline Fearless Leader  May 28, 2019 • 6:23:38am

re: #5 William Lewis

Perhap’s CL’d so, here’s this in case you miss it downstairs.

Don’t take Cooper very seriously. The numbers don’t agree with him.

[Embedded content]

I remember reading Cooper’s book, which got exposure since IIRC it was initially an unpublished manuscript which Ambrose used as part of his research for _Citizen Soldiers_. And to a degree the book is an interesting case of observation bias since Cooper’s job in the army was essentially working with destroyed or damaged tanks.

64
Feline Fearless Leader  May 28, 2019 • 6:27:49am

re: #21 ckkatz

Just watched to the first video. I found it very good. Thanks for posting it!

The second video will need to wait until later in the week, unfortunately.

The speaker actually liked the Cooper book and recommended it. However, the speaker also pointed out that the Cooper book is a memoir not a peer reviewed article. I agree with that observation.

He did point out why Cooper was wrong on Patton. (Cooper claimed that Patton was able to prevent the US Army from designing an improved tank that would fix the Sherman’s faults.) The Army did not work that way. There were very specific organizations in the Army that handled these core tasks. And Patton was not in these organizations.

And he also showed where the meme of needing 5 Shermans against any German tank came from. The smallest unit tank unit you could send was a platoon. Which just happened to have had 5 tanks. It was an organizational thing, not a qualitative thing.

All in all, quite an interesting talk. Thanks for posting it!

Nicolas Moran (aka “The Chieftain”) has some pretty interesting armor-related stuff on YouTube. Plenty of tours of various vehicles and some historical stuff as well about organizational things like the development (or lack of) of French armor doctrine between the two World Wars.

65
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 6:31:44am

re: #62 Amory Blaine

I’m on the lookout for a big old vise. Prices are sky high, so my wait continues.

Check out the Catholic Church vestry sale. What were once vises are now habits…

66
Targetpractice  May 28, 2019 • 6:32:07am

re: #2 austin_blue

CVN-81 & 82 were ordered in Jan. with EM Cats. Steel starts getting cut in 2023 & 2027.
Returning to steam Cats would require a complete redesign of the Ford-class carriers

Listening to recording, he said he’s going to put out an order requiring this:

President Trump says that with the next aircraft carrier order, he’s going to require steam catapults not electric, which have had cost and time overruns. He also surveyed sailors on whether they prefer steam or electric.

Trump in 2017: “I said what system are you going to be-‘Sir, we’re staying with digital.’ I said no you’re not. You going to goddamned steam, the digital costs hundreds of millions of dollars more money and it’s no good.” bit.ly

Does he still think that carriers are powered by coal and that steam is more efficient? He’s a complete idiot and has no idea about any advance in
technology works.

Can we please get rid of this incredibly stupid motherfucker?

Donald Trump is the guy who insisted that if the WTC had just kept the asbestos cladding on its structural columns, the towers would still be standing today. So what he knows about naval construction could likely fit on a Post-It note…and that’s being generous. As lawhawk noted, the benefits of EMAL and its related arresting system are totally outweighed by any supposed benefits of retaining steam catapults going forward. The USN didn’t switch to them lightly, they conducted years of R&D just to get the system to the point where they felt it ready for incorporation into a new carrier.

The Ford-class is designed around the catapults as well as other new systems, all of which are experiencing teething problems and all of which will require further development before they’re ready for prime time. You can’t just pull them out and sub in steam catapults, all the required hardware and support systems take up space and add weight, which will impact other systems and subtract from the benefits of doing away with them in the first place. But I don’t really expect a guy known for letting his properties go to pot while he spends lavishly on himself to understand that.

67
The Vicious Babushka  May 28, 2019 • 6:32:12am
68
Targetpractice  May 28, 2019 • 6:33:08am

re: #65 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Check out the Catholic Church vestry sale. What were once vises are now habits…

69
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 6:35:14am

re: #64 Feline Fearless Leader

Nicolas Moran (aka “The Chieftain”) has some pretty interesting armor-related stuff on YouTube. Plenty of tours of various vehicles and some historical stuff as well about organizational things like the development (or lack of) of French armor doctrine between the two World Wars.

Some of my favorite time killing videos on YouTube.

Tank building is something you cannot get “right”. Tanks have limitations and traits that mutually cancel each other out (speed vs armor, complexity of design vs ease of production & maintenance, etc.)

Russian friend of mine tells me when he was drafted that the first thing the drill sergeatn told them was: “You know why we won WWII? Because you could service a T-34 with a pair of pliers and some baling wire!”

70
Belafon  May 28, 2019 • 6:37:16am

re: #69 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Some of my favorite time killing videos on YouTube.

Tank building is something you cannot get “right”. Tanks have limitations and traits that mutually cancel each other out (speed vs armor, complexity of design vs ease of production & maintenance, etc.)

Russian friend of mine tells me when he was drafted that the first thing the drill sergeatn told them was: “You know why we won WWII? Because you could service a T-34 with a pair of pliers and some baling wire!”

The same rules in most battle based RPG’s I played, including Battletech.

71
NO SMOCKING GUN!  May 28, 2019 • 6:37:28am

re: #13 Teukka

“Chernobyl”. Episode 4. “For the Happiness of All Mankind”. Another damn tough episode, this time about the workof the “liquidators” and “bio-robots”. A damn dangerous but oh so necessary work. The mantra “time, distance, mass” comes to mind.
🤮

An emotionally devastating episode. I also started watching Nat Geo’s 3 night miniseries “The Hot Zone” last night. Not as well acted, but the book was terrifying.

72
Feline Fearless Leader  May 28, 2019 • 6:40:52am

re: #69 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Some of my favorite time killing videos on YouTube.

Tank building is something you cannot get “right”. Tanks have limitations and traits that mutually cancel each other out (speed vs armor, complexity of design vs ease of production & maintenance, etc.)

Russian friend of mine tells me when he was drafted that the first thing the drill sergeatn told them was: “You know why we won WWII? Because you could service a T-34 with a pair of pliers and some baling wire!”

I play a computer game called “Rule the Waves” which is naval stuff in a 1900-1925 time frame. Ship design is part of it and there is the same weapons/armor/speed balancing act going on there. Plus doing different ship types for different tasks. The sequel “Rule The Waves 2” just came out and the tech now goes to 1950 and includes aircraft and aircraft carrier development. (These games have me reading a lot more naval history now as well.)

73
lizardofid  May 28, 2019 • 6:41:25am

Good morning!

Dallas Texas has a tragic shortage of historic buildings, and this morning, it’s down one more. The Ambassador Hotel is a smoldering heap. Open in 1904 (President Theodore Roosevelt was a guest) it was finally scheduled for restoration, after being vacant for years. Now it’s gone. Old buildings burn hot and fast.

In her day
today
74
Feline Fearless Leader  May 28, 2019 • 6:42:06am

re: #62 Amory Blaine

I’m on the lookout for a big old vise. Prices are sky high, so my wait continues.

How big of a vise are you looking for?
75
Patricia Kayden  May 28, 2019 • 6:45:58am
76
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 6:46:25am

re: #72 Feline Fearless Leader

I play a computer game called “Rule the Waves” which is naval stuff in a 1900-1925 time frame. Ship design is part of it and there is the same weapons/armor/speed balancing act going on there. Plus doing different ship types for different tasks. The sequel “Rule The Waves 2” just came out and the tech now goes to 1950 and includes aircraft and aircraft carrier development. (These games have me reading a lot more naval history now as well.)

Ship development starting the in the 20’s was highly influenced by the restrictions imposed by the Naval Arms Limitation Treaty.

77
Targetpractice  May 28, 2019 • 6:49:34am

re: #69 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Some of my favorite time killing videos on YouTube.

Tank building is something you cannot get “right”. Tanks have limitations and traits that mutually cancel each other out (speed vs armor, complexity of design vs ease of production & maintenance, etc.)

Russian friend of mine tells me when he was drafted that the first thing the drill sergeatn told them was: “You know why we won WWII? Because you could service a T-34 with a pair of pliers and some baling wire!”

The Red Army had the largest tank force in Europe at the start of WWII…at least on paper. In reality, most of what they had was tankettes and light tanks, with their small force of heavy tanks mostly comprised of multi-turreted monstrosities that had been rendered obsolete before the war even began. They found all this out when the Finns gave them a pasting during the Winter War in ‘39, but they (like the French) thought they had years to fix the problems with their military before the Nazis came calling. I think the biggest thing lost on a lot of people about how Europe fell so quickly to the Third Reich was that nobody was ready for war. Even Hitler’s own generals figured they had until 1945 until a new war started and planned accordingly.

78
Feline Fearless Leader  May 28, 2019 • 6:49:54am

re: #76 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Ship development starting the in the 20’s was highly influenced by the restrictions imposed by the Naval Arms Limitation Treaty.

Yep. And you can get treaties in both games that limit designs and force scrapping of ships currently under construction. One possible offered event is agreeing to ban submarines which will force all the nations to scrap their submarine forces. A lot of the events and political decisions that pop up in the game have historical precedents.

(An interesting thing for instance is that the UK has a “hidden flaws” trait which can lead to their ships having a tendency to suffer from turret flash fires.)

79
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 6:51:09am

re: #78 Feline Fearless Leader

Yep. And you can get treaties in both games that limit designs and force scrapping of ships currently under construction. One possible offered event is agreeing to ban submarines which will force all the nations to scrap their submarine forces. A lot of the events and political decisions that pop up in the game have historical precedents.

(An interesting thing for instance is that the UK has a “hidden flaws” trait which can lead to their ships having a tendency to suffer from turret flash fires.)

“There’s some wrong with our bloody ships today!”

80
Targetpractice  May 28, 2019 • 6:54:28am

re: #76 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Ship development starting the in the 20’s was highly influenced by the restrictions imposed by the Naval Arms Limitation Treaty.

The Washington Naval Treaty was a big influence, but the other major influence was post-war defense cuts which were driven in large part by public sentiment that the Great War had been the “war to end all wars” and so massive military spending was no longer necessary. The defense cuts really did a number on every branch, whether it was scrapping ships rather than refitting/modernizing them, slowing tank development as the cost of prototypes was prohibitive, or restricting aircraft designs because the companies were all focused on civilian air travel as there was no money to be made in building small numbers of military aircraft.

81
William Lewis  May 28, 2019 • 6:55:01am

re: #77 Targetpractice

The Red Army had the largest tank force in Europe at the start of WWII…at least on paper. In reality, most of what they had was tankettes and light tanks, with their small force of heavy tanks mostly comprised of multi-turreted monstrosities that had been rendered obsolete before the war even began. They found all this out when the Finns gave them a pasting during the Winter War in ‘39, but they (like the French) thought they had years to fix the problems with their military before the Nazis came calling. I think the biggest thing lost on a lot of people about how Europe fell so quickly to the Third Reich was that nobody was ready for war. Even Hitler’s own generals figured they had until 1945 until a new war started and planned accordingly.

Yep. Another thing is that while the T-34/76 was an improvement over the light tanks and tankettes, it has tended to be over rated historically. The gun was it’s greatest asset but the automotives were meh and a two man turret is a nightmare to fight because the commander spends too much time down inside loading instead of commanding. The later T-34/85 was a far superior tank though it was not available till 1944 IIRC. Manic has one of his many videos on this too. :)

82
The Vicious Babushka  May 28, 2019 • 6:57:01am
83
Targetpractice  May 28, 2019 • 6:57:52am

re: #81 William Lewis

Yep. Another thing is that while the T-34/76 was an improvement over the light tanks and tankettes, it has tended to be over rated historically. The gun was it’s greatest asset but the automotives were meh and a two man turret is a nightmare to fight because the commander spends too much time down inside loading instead of commanding. The later T-34/85 was a far superior tank though it was not available till 1944 IIRC. Manic has one of his many videos on this too. :)

Really, the T-34’s greatest assets were sloped armor…and the fact that they could built at a break-neck pace to low quality standards and still work. The KV-1 had the same gun as the T-34/76, but it was an unreliable beast that was slow to build and a pain to maintain. So upgunning the T-34 with an improved turret was a better move while they drug the KV series back to the drawing board, eventually leading to the IS series that proved to be absolute monsters.

84
Targetpractice  May 28, 2019 • 7:03:29am

re: #82 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

“Perfectly”? Catapults on even a modern carrier (i.e. the product of all those years of development and experience) are still the most maintenance-intensive portion of a carrier’s design, with only the arresting system following close behind. And I’d like to introduce Donny two bits of aviator slang: “hot cat” and “cold cat.” The former rips your bird’s nose wheel off, the latter dumps the whole bird into the drink. Neither scenario is fun and both are still very real scenarios even with 65 years of service. But please, continue to demonstrate to us your absolute ignorance of…well…everything.

85
Belafon  May 28, 2019 • 7:05:37am

re: #84 Targetpractice

“Perfectly”? Catapults on even a modern carrier (i.e. the product of all those years of development and experience) are still the most maintenance-intensive portion of a carrier’s design, with only the arresting system following close behind. And I’d like to introduce Donny two bits of aviator slang: “hot cat” and “cold cat.” The former rips your bird’s nose wheel off, the latter dumps the whole bird into the drink. Neither scenario is fun and both are still very real scenarios even with 65 years of service. But please, continue to demonstrate to us your absolute ignorance of…well…everything.

Wait until he finds out what aircraft carriers use to generate power.

86
Targetpractice  May 28, 2019 • 7:07:38am

Quick, somebody tell Donny that it was the Brits who came up with the idea of using steam catapults first. And angled carrier decks and mirror landing systems. He’ll freak the fuck out and demand the Navy dust off the designs for the Essex class again.

87
Amory Blaine  May 28, 2019 • 7:09:33am

re: #74 Feline Fearless Leader

Very nice!

88
Feline Fearless Leader  May 28, 2019 • 7:10:14am

re: #87 Amory Blaine

Very nice!

Is that the size you’re looking for, or something larger?

89
Belafon  May 28, 2019 • 7:14:42am

re: #86 Targetpractice

Quick, somebody tell Donny that it was the Brits who came up with the idea of using steam catapults first. And angled carrier decks and mirror landing systems. He’ll freak the fuck out and demand the Navy dust off the designs for the Essex class again.

Someone needs to show Trump Robotech and tell him we need a carrier that can transform.

90
Shropshire Slasher  May 28, 2019 • 7:15:27am

re: #62 Amory Blaine

Harbor Freight makes them every day.

harborfreight.com

91
steve_davis  May 28, 2019 • 7:20:23am

re: #13 Teukka

“Chernobyl”. Episode 4. “For the Happiness of All Mankind”. Another damn tough episode, this time about the workof the “liquidators” and “bio-robots”. A damn dangerous but oh so necessary work. The mantra “time, distance, mass” comes to mind.
🤮

nowadays, there could have been more organization in that one could take digital photos of the platform, and simply tell liquidators, “you and a partner have 90 seconds to use your shovels to push that piece graphite over the edge,” rather than just sort of leaving it up to them to freelance stuff.

92
steve_davis  May 28, 2019 • 7:22:19am

re: #17 Teukka

Most likely no. And the US basically did the same routine when recovering two out of three bodies out of the SL-1 building, men were given 60 seconds each to do their task. That’s what “Time, Distance, Mass” boils down to in extreme circumstances.

What 10 Sv (10,000 rtg) does to electronics:

[Embedded content]

Video

that warning light means you’re either dead, or you’re going to become a superhero.

93
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 7:42:12am

re: #91 steve_davis

nowadays, there could have been more organization in that one could take digital photos of the platform, and simply tell liquidators, “you and a partner have 90 seconds to use your shovels to push that piece graphite over the edge,” rather than just sort of leaving it up to them to freelance stuff.

Jut get on your app and call someone from Lyquidate

94
Teukka  May 28, 2019 • 7:43:25am

re: #93 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Jut get on your app and call someone from Lyquidate

If your smartphone didn’t get bricked by the radiation… Did I mention those graphite channels are wicked “hot”?

95
Chrysicat  May 28, 2019 • 8:03:18am
96
Amory Blaine  May 28, 2019 • 8:05:18am

re: #88 Feline Fearless Leader

A little larger. Something over 50 lbs. Maybe not as big as this one but a nice 6”-8”. :D

97
Mescalero09  May 28, 2019 • 8:11:17am

Look at this from the Official NBA Raptors site. WTF

Is that what I think it is on the right?

98
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 8:14:19am

re: #97 Mescalero

Look at this from the Official NBA Raptors site. WTF

Is that what I think it is on the right?

Those pathetic fuckers revel in this sort of “controversy”.

99
Mescalero09  May 28, 2019 • 8:15:39am

re: #98 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Proofreading is a lost art. The Raptors reside in Toronto Ontario.
I don’t get it.

100
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 8:16:13am

re: #99 Mescalero

Proofreading is a lost art. The Raptors reside in Toronto Ontario.
I don’t get it.

assholes are everywhere

101
Chrysicat  May 28, 2019 • 8:21:53am

re: #97 Mescalero

Look at this from the Official NBA Raptors site. WTF

Is that what I think it is on the right?

I suppose there’s a 10-percent chance that the person in question just hasn’t been online, or watching any TV news (not “other than FauxNoise” in this case, literally “any” because FauxNoise isn’t allowed to sell itself as news in Canada), to the point where they haven’t yet learnt that “OK” is never OK anymore (though it’s not likely, since that hand obviously isn’t more than 30 years old).

Of course, in that case, there should be people aggressively engaging with him to explain that, for reasons very similar to the ones that mean no one could/can use a Bellamy Salute after 1937, that sign has been exclusively co-opted by white supremacism and cannot be redeemed in anything under 70 years. And if it isn’t a mistake yet, it’s our job to make sure it becomes one, of the “fighting words” variety.

102
Mescalero09  May 28, 2019 • 8:26:27am

re: #101 Chrysicat

Being as how it is a NBA team site, who the fuck lets that slip through?
Regardless of intent or whatever. Not in the background either.

103
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 8:26:35am

re: #101 Chrysicat

And if it isn’t a mistake yet, it’s our job to make sure it becomes one, of the “fighting words” variety.

Those fuckers love spinning the discussion off in such disputes, it makes them seem so witty and sly in outwitting PC

Cannot help but recall this scene from Iron Sky”…

Swastika symbol of peace, Iron Sky

104
retired cynic  May 28, 2019 • 8:32:04am

“Egypt unveils ‘one of a kind’ ancient tomb with intact colours and statues”

abc.net.au

Amazing!

105
Chrysicat  May 28, 2019 • 8:33:25am

For a change, there is neitehr any snark nor any anger I can add to this:

.

Though check that on the anger. Apparently there’s enough to get me to typo badly. No, I’m not fixing it.

106
Targetpractice  May 28, 2019 • 8:36:21am

re: #105 Chrysicat

For a change, there is neitehr any snark nor any anger I can add to this:

[Embedded content]

The Associated Press puff piece about how “Even if they give RvW the axe doesn’t mean things go back to ‘73!” looks even more ridiculous today than it did yesterday, in light of the SCOTUS bench’s conservative majority making clear that if given the chance, birth control will be on the chopping block alongside legal abortion.

107
Chrysicat  May 28, 2019 • 8:37:48am
108
Chrysicat  May 28, 2019 • 8:39:57am

re: #106 Targetpractice

The Associated Press puff piece about how “Even if they give RvW the axe doesn’t mean things go back to ‘73!” looks even more ridiculous today than it did yesterday, in light of the SCOTUS bench’s conservative majority making clear that if given the chance, birth control will be on the chopping block alongside legal abortion.

No, no, no, they’re right! It’s not going back to ‘73! It’s going back at least before 1971, and prolly full-on Griswold, in ‘67!

So they’re technically correct, which as Futurama taught us, is…?

109
Joe Bacon 🌹  May 28, 2019 • 8:42:35am

I wouldn’t be surprised if Slappy T voted to overturn the Loving decision as well…

110
Targetpractice  May 28, 2019 • 8:46:17am

By the way, “Judge” Napolitano is saying that Kavanaugh has again been a disappointment to the pro-forced birth crowd because while Pence’s ghoulish “burial” law has been reinstated, the law that prevents abortions based upon things like sex or race of the fetus has been struck down.

111
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 28, 2019 • 8:49:15am

uhhhhhh

112
Targetpractice  May 28, 2019 • 8:50:26am

re: #111 Backwoods_Sleuth

uhhhhhh

[Embedded content]

I’m not really sure which I find more disappointing: That they came up with that shit themselves…or they were passed around by some WH staffer to make Donny feel good.

113
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 28, 2019 • 8:51:17am

re: #105 Chrysicat

114
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 8:51:47am

re: #111 Backwoods_Sleuth

Airmen onboard the USS WASP wearing patches on their jumpsuits that read “Make Aircrew Great Again.” The patches include an image in the center in the likeness of President Trump.

Trump has yet to strut up and down on a deck in a jumpsuit…

115
Targetpractice  May 28, 2019 • 8:53:16am

re: #114 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Trump has yet to strut up and down on a deck in a jumpsuit…

Only because he’d refuse to wear one, since it would cover up his cheap suit.

116
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 28, 2019 • 8:53:35am
117
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 28, 2019 • 8:54:00am

re: #115 Targetpractice

Only because he’d refuse to wear one, since it would cover up his cheap suit.

also, unable to hide a bloated gut in one

118
The Vicious Babushka  May 28, 2019 • 8:55:23am

It was 22° Celsius (79°F) in Toronto when we arrived yesterday. Now it is 52° (11°C)

119
Interesting Times  May 28, 2019 • 8:56:24am

re: #118 The Vicious Babushka

It was 22° Celsius (89°F) in Toronto when we arrived yesterday. Now it is 52° (11°C)

Welcome to Ontario. If you don’t like the weather, wait five minutes.

120
The Vicious Babushka  May 28, 2019 • 8:56:50am

re: #119 Interesting Times

Welcome to Ontario. If you don’t like the weather, wait five minutes.

It’s like that in Michigan too.

121
The Vicious Babushka  May 28, 2019 • 8:57:50am

Correction: it was 79° yesterday, not 89°.

122
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 8:58:39am

re: #118 The Vicious Babushka

It was 22° Celsius (89°F) in Toronto when we arrived yesterday. Now it is 52° (11°C)

don’t overdramatize, 22°C is 71.6°F

123
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 28, 2019 • 8:59:08am

re: #121 The Vicious Babushka

Correction: it was 79° yesterday, not 89°.

sort us out on which scale you are starting off from…

124
The Vicious Babushka  May 28, 2019 • 9:00:16am

...

125
The Vicious Babushka  May 28, 2019 • 9:02:00am

re: #123 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

sort us out on which scale you are starting off from…

My vehicle’s external thermometer said 79F. The sign on the highway said 22C.

126
Belafon  May 28, 2019 • 9:04:58am

re: #105 Chrysicat

For a change, there is neitehr any snark nor any anger I can add to this:

.Though check that on the anger. Apparently there’s enough to get me to typo badly. No, I’m not fixing it.

But the AP assured us birth control would be available.

127
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 28, 2019 • 9:20:48am
128
wrenchwench  May 28, 2019 • 9:24:16am

re: #126 Belafon

But the AP assured us birth control would be available.

Clarence Thomas needs to receive every used feminine hygiene product America produces this June, to check for products of failure to implant. First package will include a microscope.

129
Targetpractice  May 28, 2019 • 9:25:32am

re: #127 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Meanwhile, I sit here, remembering how any time that Obama appeared before the troops, we were told by wingnuts how it was all “staged,” that the troops hate his guts as much as they do, and that it was wrong to use the troops for a “campaign rally.”

130
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 28, 2019 • 9:38:35am

re: #116 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

the rest of the thread is fun

132
Sir John Barron  May 28, 2019 • 10:16:27am

re: #13 Teukka

“Chernobyl”. Episode 4. “For the Happiness of All Mankind”. Another damn tough episode, this time about the workof the “liquidators” and “bio-robots”. A damn dangerous but oh so necessary work. The mantra “time, distance, mass” comes to mind.
🤮

In some ways, the toughest of all. Can’t watch them killing animals.

Pretty effective, although short, look in on the firefighter’s wife, beside an empty crib, and the gazed look on her face.

133
Hecuba's daughter  May 28, 2019 • 10:17:38am

re: #95 Chrysicat

@chrysicat

Replying to @BamaChi70040414 @Miriam2626
Because they took the evidence, in private, to McTurtle, who promptly said that he would “debunk it” even though it was true, and paint it as a desperate attempt at an October surprise. Because the “center” hates to feel manipulated, it would have voted MORE FOR TRUMP THAN IT DID

(((Chrysi Cat)))
@chrysicat
That Ditch reacted that way has been in the news for two years; I’m not sure how you missed it.

The big question is when did McTurtle go fully on board with the Russians. The Russians were funding his 2016 campaign but in 2017 he did support sanctions against Russia. In 2018 that seemed to change.

In 2016 McCarthy joked that Putin was paying Trump and Rohrabacher. It now seems that most (all?) Republican Senators are owned by Putin and so are many House members. We are under attack by a hostile foreign power and tens of millions of Americans welcome this onslaught.

134
Sir John Barron  May 28, 2019 • 10:18:27am

re: #41 teleskiguy

So Fuckface Von Clownstick has tweeted support for tornado victims in Oklahoma, not yet for Ohio. Fox News must not have broadcasted anything about Dayton yet.

Maybe he thinks Kasich is still the governor there.

135
Hecuba's daughter  May 28, 2019 • 10:25:01am

re: #132 Sir John Barron

In some ways, the toughest of all. Can’t watch them killing animals.

Pretty effective, although short, look in on the firefighter’s wife, beside an empty crib, and the gazed look on her face.

I agree. I could not stand the killing of the animals including pets but at least it was almost all off-screen. You heard the shots, knew what was happening, but did not actually see it. The Russian government was like the American government until after Katrina: pets could not be evacuated with their owners.

Re: the firefighter’s wife. The statement that the baby saved the mother by absorbing the radiation — is that assertion correct?

136
Sir John Barron  May 28, 2019 • 10:27:00am

re: #135 Hecuba’s daughter

Re: the firefighter’s wife. The statement that the baby saved the mother by absorbing the radiation — is that assertion correct?

I was wondering about that, too. Not sure how the fetus/baby could absorb the radiation but the mother wouldn’t.

Or maybe both absorbed radiation but the baby is much more vulnerable.

137
A hollow voice says, Inpeach...  May 28, 2019 • 10:29:20am

re: #135 Hecuba’s daughter

I agree. I could not stand the killing of the animals including pets but at least it was almost all off-screen. You heard the shots, knew what was happening, but did not actually see it. The Russian government was like the American government until after Katrina: pets could not be evacuated with their owners.

Re: the firefighter’s wife. The statement that the baby saved the mother by absorbing the radiation — is that assertion correct?

In cancer treatment, the cancer cells get hit harder by radiation because they’re dividing faster… or something like that. I believe this case is similar.

138
Teukka  May 28, 2019 • 10:32:32am

re: #137 A hollow voice says, Inpeach…

In cancer treatment, the cancer cells get hit harder by radiation because they’re dividing faster… or something like that. I believe this case is similar.

I’ve heard it said that a fetus develops as fast as it can biologically, that the only thing which grows any faster is a potentially fatal cancer tumor. So yeah, I would say something which is dividing fast would be more vulnerable to radiation or toxins in the environment.

139
lawhawk  May 28, 2019 • 10:34:55am

re: #136 Sir John Barron

I was wondering about that, too. Not sure how the fetus/baby could absorb the radiation but the mother wouldn’t.

Or maybe both absorbed radiation but the baby is much more vulnerable.

The fetus was much more vulnerable to radiation; that is why the doctors then were asking her whether she was pregnant - they would have prevented her from seeing her husband altogether had she told them she was actually pregnant.

Even now, if you’re pregnant doctors are supposed to take precautions to limit the radiation that may be used. They know that radiation can adversely affect a fetus.

140
Teukka  May 28, 2019 • 10:36:54am

re: #139 lawhawk

The fetus was much more vulnerable to radiation; that is why the doctors then were asking her whether she was pregnant - they would have prevented her from seeing her husband altogether had she told them she was actually pregnant.

Even now, if you’re pregnant doctors are supposed to take precautions to limit the radiation that may be used. They know that radiation can adversely affect a fetus.

Things usually available in hospitals, such as lead aprons etc. often found in radiology. Depends on what radiation the ARS victim is emitting.

141
Belafon  May 28, 2019 • 10:39:38am

BTW, if you think the GOP will care about the House passing impeachment, or that it will make them nervous:

GOP senators say that if the House passes articles of impeachment against President Trump they will quickly quash them in the Senate, where Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has broad authority to set the parameters of a trial.

While McConnell is required to act on articles of impeachment, which require 67 votes - or a two-thirds majority - to convict the president, he and his Republican colleagues have the power to set the rules and ensure the briefest of trials.

“I think it would be disposed of very quickly,” said Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.).

“If it’s based on the Mueller report, or anything like that, it would be quickly disposed of,” he added.

Senate Republicans say that an impeachment trial would be given the bare minimum amount of floor time.

“Why on earth would we give a platform to something that I judge as a purely political exercise?” said Sen. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.), another member of the Judiciary Committee. “We have to perform our constitutional duty, but if people think that we’re going to try and create a theater that could give you the perception that this is a matter that rises to the level of Watergate, that’s nonsense.”

Tillis said he would support McConnell bringing the impeachment process to a quick close, and that any kind of extended trial would be “rewarding what I view as bad behavior on the part of the House.”

thehill.com

With < 40% of the populace supporting impeachment right now, they’re not going to pay a price for this. It will be up to the House to convince people, and it will have to be viewed by people as something beyond politics, which will be very hard.

142
Charles Johnson  May 28, 2019 • 10:39:49am
143
Belafon  May 28, 2019 • 10:40:41am

re: #142 Charles Johnson

They ruled that Indiana’s requirement that a fetus must be buried or cremated was valid.

144
Sir John Barron  May 28, 2019 • 10:44:12am

re: #139 lawhawk

The fetus was much more vulnerable to radiation; that is why the doctors then were asking her whether she was pregnant - they would have prevented her from seeing her husband altogether had she told them she was actually pregnant.

Even now, if you’re pregnant doctors are supposed to take precautions to limit the radiation that may be used. They know that radiation can adversely affect a fetus.

I’m wondering what will ultimately happen to the wife; she doesn’t appear to be sick yet.

145
lawhawk  May 28, 2019 • 10:45:03am

re: #141 Belafon

I’ve said it before here and on Twitter.

McConnell will simply ignore and kill any move to impeach Trump. He will simply ignore the constitutional obligation to hold a trial and instead declare that Trump’s all good.

Fuck that.

Impeach Trump - make the GOP accountable and hold them all to account for being complicit in Trump’s criminality. Make the trial all about Trump and the GOP and what they’re doing to obstruct justice. Make McConnell and the obstructionists central to the entire matter.

If the GOP doesn’t like it? Fuck them. They don’t deserve to be in office and have given over their say to the Russians and foreign powers.

146
Charles Johnson  May 28, 2019 • 10:45:20am
147
Interesting Times  May 28, 2019 • 10:48:20am

re: #141 Belafon

BTW, if you think the GOP will care about the House passing impeachment, or that it will make them nervous:

thehill.com

With < 40% of the populace supporting impeachment right now, they’re not going to pay a price for this. It will be up to the House to convince people, and it will have to be viewed by people as something beyond politics, which will be very hard.

That doesn’t mean you don’t do it, however, or look like you’re giving up before the game even gets underway. In fact, the whole point of impeachment hearings is to shift the existing public opinion by having televised hearings to lay all this out in real-time without corporate media spin/filters. Read this longer essay by Sarah Kendzior and see what you think:

Let us be clear: we do not think that, if the House impeaches Trump, the GOP-dominated Senate will convict. We also do not think that if the Senate, by some miracle, impeaches Trump, that he will leave. Trump has made it clear he will not leave office even if the will of the people demands it in an election, and even if the will of Congress demands it in impeachment. Trump is an aspiring autocrat, and the GOP is seeking a one-party state.

So what is the point of the House impeaching Trump? An informed public is a powerful public, and hearings are the best way of informing the people on what the White House has done.

148
Charles Johnson  May 28, 2019 • 10:49:59am
149
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 28, 2019 • 10:54:52am
150
Dr Lizardo  May 28, 2019 • 10:55:15am

Rammstein dropped a new video, Ausländer. And I get the feeling it’s gonna be another controversial video, too. It’s a good video, to be sure, but let’s just say it’s not gonna get played on American TV anytime soon, that’s for damn sure, LOL.

You’ll find it on YouTube - just enter “Rammstein Auslander” in the search bar and I’m sure it’ll come up.

And it’s very NSFW.

151
ckkatz  May 28, 2019 • 10:56:11am

re: #71 NO SMOCKING GUN!

An emotionally devastating episode. I also started watching Nat Geo’s 3 night miniseries “The Hot Zone” last night. Not as well acted, but the book was terrifying.

I lived a little over a mile from the “Monkey House” during the incident. Because it was pre-Internet, there wasn’t much information. There are lots of ‘unmarked’/’innocuously marked’ facilities in the area.

The only thing I heard, until the book came out, was that, for some reason, nobody wanted to rent that building after the facility was closed down.

152
Hecuba's daughter  May 28, 2019 • 10:56:21am

My wingnut brother talked about watching interviews that Oliver Stone conducted with Vladimir Putin.

My view of Stone: he’s Alex Jones with talent.

153
gocart mozart  May 28, 2019 • 10:58:22am
154
gocart mozart  May 28, 2019 • 11:00:11am
155
Hecuba's daughter  May 28, 2019 • 11:00:41am

re: #151 ckkatz

I lived a little over a mile from the “Monkey House” during the incident. Because it was pre-Internet, there wasn’t much information. There are lots of ‘unmarked’/’innocuously marked’ facilities in the area.

The only thing I heard, until the book came out, was that, for some reason, nobody wanted to rent that building after the facility was closed down.

I read the book when it first came out. Very chilling. It was the inspiration for Outbreak, one of my favorite films (except for the Donald Sutherland character).

156
gocart mozart  May 28, 2019 • 11:04:14am
157
William Lewis  May 28, 2019 • 11:05:40am

re: #150 Dr Lizardo

Rammstein dropped a new video, Ausländer. And I get the feeling it’s gonna be another controversial video, too. It’s a good video, to be sure, but let’s just say it’s not gonna get played on American TV anytime soon, that’s for damn sure, LOL.

You’ll find it on YouTube - just enter “Rammstein Auslander” in the search bar and I’m sure it’ll come up.

And it’s very NSFW.

Well, that’s an interesting take on colonialism…

158
Belafon  May 28, 2019 • 11:06:53am

re: #147 Interesting Times

That doesn’t mean you don’t do it, however, or look like you’re giving up before the game even gets underway. In fact, the whole point of impeachment hearings is to shift the existing public opinion by having televised hearings to lay all this out in real-time without corporate media spin/filters. Read this longer essay by Sarah Kendzior and see what you think:

Agree, as long as the public is ready to believe the trial is serious and not just the type of thing the GOP has been doing for the past 30 years.

159
Dr Lizardo  May 28, 2019 • 11:07:46am

re: #157 William Lewis

Well, that’s an interesting take on colonialism…

Indeed. But to be honest, I’m sure things like that happened more often than not - away from the prying eyes of the people back home.

160
Targetpractice  May 28, 2019 • 11:08:26am

re: #141 Belafon

BTW, if you think the GOP will care about the House passing impeachment, or that it will make them nervous:

thehill.com

With < 40% of the populace supporting impeachment right now, they’re not going to pay a price for this. It will be up to the House to convince people, and it will have to be viewed by people as something beyond politics, which will be very hard.

The time for that came and went, now we’re just digging in every dumpster and under every barrel in the hope we find something either incriminating or at least so damning that Trump is voted out next year. Impeachment is effectively gone as a tactic, not because we’ve nothing worth investigating him over, but because the message has become so garbled by the leadership’s worry over looking “bad” that what might have been a process to hold Trump accountable for his actions…has turned into a convoluted argument over jurisdiction, Constitutional authority, and judicial precedents. It’s time to face facts: Impeachment is not going to happen and Trump won on that. The only thing we can do now is hope that the voters hate him so much come next November that he doesn’t squeak through to a second term.

161
gocart mozart  May 28, 2019 • 11:10:56am

A good post on what the GOP really is.

162
ckkatz  May 28, 2019 • 11:11:44am

re: #155 Hecuba’s daughter

I read the book when it first came out. Very chilling. It was the inspiration for Outbreak, one of my favorite films (except for the Donald Sutherland character).

Yes, could have been worse. I’m glad it wasn’t.

And I’m also very glad that I did not have to participate in the fiasco of other peoples’ screw-ups. (Through living nearby.)

163
William Lewis  May 28, 2019 • 11:13:23am

re: #159 Dr Lizardo

Indeed. But to be honest, I’m sure things like that happened more often than not - away from the prying eyes of the people back home.

Oh of course. It’s at the core of the fear of colonial officials/troops/etc “going native”. No, I just found it interesting to see reminders of the German colonies pre-WWI and talking about it in general. I’m reminded, more by accident than by any actual similarities, of The Lover, the 1992 film based on the novel of the same name by Marguerite Duras.

164
Shropshire Slasher  May 28, 2019 • 11:16:40am

re: #163 William Lewis

there might be a mutiny, on the Bounty…

165
Belafon  May 28, 2019 • 11:17:39am

re: #161 gocart mozart

A good post on what the GOP really is.

Which gets at a fundamental point: Republicans do not trust women to make the right choices.

166
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 28, 2019 • 11:21:43am
167
Decatur Deb  May 28, 2019 • 11:21:46am

re: #163 William Lewis

Oh of course. It’s at the core of the fear of colonial officials/troops/etc “going native”. No, I just found it interesting to see reminders of the German colonies pre-WWI and talking about it in general. I’m reminded, more by accident than by any actual similarities, of The Lover, the 1992 film based on the novel of the same name by Marguerite Duras.

The settlers of the English colonies in America went native at a good clip. The Seminole tribe was a spinoff of SE tribes, runaway slaves, and white “defectors”. See also—Last of the Mohicans.

168
Joe Bacon 🌹  May 28, 2019 • 11:24:10am

re: #114 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Trump has yet to strut up and down on a deck in a jumpsuit…

And he hasn’t strutted around with a sock in his jock yet…

169
William Lewis  May 28, 2019 • 11:27:06am

re: #167 Decatur Deb

The settlers of the English colonies in America went native at a good clip. The Seminole tribe was a spinoff of SE tribes, runaway slaves, and white “defectors”. See also—Last of the Mohicans.

Or Cynthia Ann Parker, mother of the Comanche war leader Quanah Parker & origin of the story used in The Searchers. She never re-assimilated into white culture and eventually died of a hunger strike and pneumonia that was more heartbreak than anything else.

170
Dr Lizardo  May 28, 2019 • 11:27:35am

re: #167 Decatur Deb

The settlers of the English colonies in America went native at a good clip. The Seminole tribe was a spinoff of SE tribes, runaway slaves, and white “defectors”. See also—Last of the Mohicans.

IIRC, didn’t Conrad’s Heart of Darkness deal with the whole “going native” thing? It’s been years and years since I read it, but didn’t Kurtz basically set himself up as some kind of deity-like figure? I could also swear in the story he’d also taken an African woman as his wife/partner/consort.

It’s been so long since I’ve read it.

171
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 28, 2019 • 11:29:06am

these people…

172
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 28, 2019 • 11:29:55am

re: #168 Joe Bacon 🌹

And he hasn’t strutted around with a sock in his jock yet…

he could have and no one noticed…

hey trump! you’re gonna need a bigger sock!

173
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  May 28, 2019 • 11:34:05am

trump on north korea is like somebody who still refuses to believe they were ripped off despite the fact that the engine fell out of the used car as soon as they got it home

174
Hecuba's daughter  May 28, 2019 • 11:34:36am

re: #160 Targetpractice

The time for that came and went, now we’re just digging in every dumpster and under every barrel in the hope we find something either incriminating or at least so damning that Trump is voted out next year. Impeachment is effectively gone as a tactic, not because we’ve nothing worth investigating him over, but because the message has become so garbled by the leadership’s worry over looking “bad” that what might have been a process to hold Trump accountable for his actions…has turned into a convoluted argument over jurisdiction, Constitutional authority, and judicial precedents. It’s time to face facts: Impeachment is not going to happen and Trump won on that. The only thing we can do now is hope that the voters hate him so much come next November that he doesn’t squeak through to a second term.

I don’t know when there was a time for impeachment, given the current Republican stranglehold on the Senate. The Democrats have only been in since January. They could not start impeachment hearings before the release of the Mueller report without generating a huge backlash. The Democrats have no control over any Cabinet appointments or judicial appointments. The press has continued much of its bothsideism and the MSM has refused to take a principled and consistent stand against Trump, demanding impeachment. This isn’t the 1970’s when Democrats controlled both Houses and there was no propaganda network like Fox. I have faith that Nancy knows what she is doing.

175
Eclectic Cyborg  May 28, 2019 • 11:37:19am

re: #171 Backwoods_Sleuth

these people…

[Embedded content]

“Billionaires are actually poor.”

This totally shortcircuited my brain.

176
Targetpractice  May 28, 2019 • 11:41:37am

re: #174 Hecuba’s daughter

I don’t know when there was a time for impeachment, given the current Republican stranglehold on the Senate. The Democrats have only been in since January. They could not start impeachment hearings before the release of the Mueller report without generating a huge backlash. The Democrats have no control over any Cabinet appointments or judicial appointments. The press has continued much of its bothsideism and the MSM has refused to take a principled and consistent stand against Trump, demanding impeachment. This isn’t the 1970’s when Democrats controlled both Houses and there was no propaganda network like Fox. I have faith that Nancy knows what she is doing.

The time for impeachment was immediately after the release of the Mueller Report, when the argument could have been that the House Dems were going to hold Trump accountable for his actions and use impeachment hearings to get those facts that were not in the Report. Instead, the immediate choice of the Dem leadership was to make the argument over one of authority, as in who has access to what and what powers the Constitution grants them. The court cases? The subpoenas? The testimony? Stuff like that could have been the subject of impeachment hearings, where it would have been of much greater importance.

To give a prime example, Jerry Nadler’s now saying he wants to impeach Trump. But the reason is not because Trump has broken the law, but because the WH is stonewalling and he believes the only way to get past that is through impeachment hearings. In other words, the Dem leadership has so muddled their message that what might have been about ensuring no one is above the law…is now in danger of becoming a petty squabble over Donny’s tax returns.

177
retired cynic  May 28, 2019 • 11:41:45am

juanitajean.com

Trump apparently didn’t follow through in revoking John Brennan’s security clearance.

Lazy or stupid?

I know: why not both!

178
Decatur Deb  May 28, 2019 • 11:43:21am

re: #169 William Lewis

Or Cynthia Ann Parker, mother of the Comanche war leader Quanah Parker & origin of the story used in The Searchers. She never re-assimilated into white culture and eventually died of a hunger strike and pneumonia that was more heartbreak than anything else.

Just a scratch of the surface—Whites bled into the first nations through conflict, and even more through choice. Some saw the way of life as advantageous on the frontier, some were running from the individually oppressive colonial culture. And the first waves of adventurer/pirate didn’t bring enough wives. They became the critical “culture brokers” at the edge of the two worlds.

gwonline.unc.edu

179
Decatur Deb  May 28, 2019 • 11:55:23am

re: #170 Dr Lizardo

IIRC, didn’t Conrad’s Heart of Darkness deal with the whole “going native” thing? It’s been years and years since I read it, but didn’t Kurtz basically set himself up as some kind of deity-like figure? I could also swear in the story he’d also taken an African woman as his wife/partner/consort.

It’s been so long since I’ve read it.

Typical White Guy—walks in, takes over.

180
Eclectic Cyborg  May 28, 2019 • 11:58:16am

re: #179 Decatur Deb

Typical White Guy—walks in, takes over.

That’s actually a well known TV /story trope:

Mighty Whitey

181
lizardofid  May 28, 2019 • 12:01:23pm

re: #170 Dr Lizardo

IIRC, didn’t Conrad’s Heart of Darkness deal with the whole “going native” thing? It’s been years and years since I read it, but didn’t Kurtz basically set himself up as some kind of deity-like figure? I could also swear in the story he’d also taken an African woman as his wife/partner/consort.

It’s been so long since I’ve read it.

Was it something like The Man who Would Be King?

RK pondered the subject a bit me thinks.

182
Decatur Deb  May 28, 2019 • 12:09:01pm

re: #180 Eclectic Cyborg

That’s actually a well known TV /story trope:

Mighty Whitey

Can’t generalize much from one tribe to another, but many groups were very fluid in their membership. It was often useful to both the tribe and the newcomers to cross-identify, and it is still an issue, with controversy over Cherokee/Black history and a NW tribe’s White descendants.

spokesman.com


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