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626 comments

1
jaunte  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:36:33am
2
Dr Lizardo  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:40:58am

re: #1 jaunte

Nacht und Nebel.

3
Patricia Kayden  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:43:53am
4
jaunte  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:46:24am

Professional operation, smooth as silk.

5
Patricia Kayden  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:46:46am

re: #1 jaunte

Another thing for Democrats in the House to investigate. By the way, I’m not really hearing about Congressional investigations. Democrats need to investigate and expose this treacherous, dangerous regime. That’s their one job.

6
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:47:40am

re: #3 Patricia Kayden

The Trump admin “has refused to publicize dozens of government-funded studies that carry warnings about the effects of climate change, defying a longstanding practice of touting such findings by the Agriculture Department’s acclaimed in-house scientists.”

Time to leak these documents just to see the Trump administration try to make a case that revealing them is somehow a threat to national security.

7
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:50:57am
8
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:55:35am

re: #5 Patricia Kayden

Another thing for Democrats in the House to investigate. By the way, I’m not really hearing about Congressional investigations. Democrats need to investigate and expose this treacherous, dangerous regime. That’s their one job.

This is very similar to “I’m not hearing about Democrats passing legislation.” It’s going on, the fact that it’s not punching through the media is a big problem. But then again, they’re mostly ignoring the latest rape allegations against Trump.

9
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:58:22am

re: #8 Belafon

Exactly. I’m about ready for the Impeachment hearings.

10
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:59:12am

In Supreme Court news today, four opinions handed down thus far. In Iancu v Brunetti the Court ruled that the Lanham Act’s prohibition of trademarking “immoral or salacious” terms violates the First Amendment. Kagan wrote for the majority (Ginsburg, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh); Alito had a concurring opinion; Roberts concurred in part and dissented in part (joined by Breyer); and, Sotomayor concurred in part and dissented in part.

In another case, the Court held that the residual clause of the Hobbs Act is unconstitutionally vague:

The residual clause in turn defines a “crime of violence” as a felony “that by its nature, involves a substantial risk that physical force against the person or property of another may be used in the course of committing the offense.”

Gorsuch wrote for the majority (Ginsburg, Breyer, Kagan, and Sotomayor). Kavanaugh dissented which was joined by the rest of the justices.

I’m interested to see how the alignments end up after this term. Seems like Gorsuch has been more willing to side with the more “liberal” justices (the liberal/conservative political spectrum doesn’t always line up well with jurisprudence).

11
BlueGrl21  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:00:42am

re: #7 NO SMOCKING GUN!

[Embedded content]

Somehow, I think the Secret Service will have no problem frog-marching him out the door and shipping his personal items to him later.

12
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:04:43am

re: #10 KGxvi

In Supreme Court news today, four opinions handed down thus far. In Iancu v Brunetti the Court ruled that the Lanham Act’s prohibition of trademarking “immoral or salacious” terms violates the First Amendment. Kagan wrote for the majority (Ginsburg, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh); Alito had a concurring opinion; Roberts concurred in part and dissented in part (joined by Breyer); and, Sotomayor concurred in part and dissented in part.

In another case, the Court held that the residual clause of the Hobbs Act is unconstitutionally vague:

Gorsuch wrote for the majority (Ginsburg, Breyer, Kagan, and Sotomayor). Kavanaugh dissented which was joined by the rest of the justices.

I’m interested to see how the alignments end up after this term. Seems like Gorsuch has been more willing to side with the more “liberal” justices (the liberal/conservative political spectrum doesn’t always line up well with jurisprudence).

Gorsuch seems to be lining up as a “limited government” type, and being fairly consistent about it. Sometimes, limited government is what liberals want, and sometimes it isn’t.

13
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:07:28am

re: #12 Belafon

He could easily overturn both federal drug laws and federal anti-discrimination laws in the same session.

14
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:09:14am

re: #12 Belafon

Gorsuch seems to be lining up as a “limited government” type, and being fairly consistent about it. Sometimes, limited government is what liberals want, and sometimes it isn’t.

The big cases seem to be the only things left this term. Couple about partisan gerrymandering, the census citizenship question, the Oklahoma/Indian Country case. Also a case as to whether the Fair Debt Collection Act pertains to non-judicial foreclosures (how that wasn’t decided a decade ago eludes me). And a case about whether the courts should defer to administrative agencies regarding vague regulations.

15
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:11:16am

re: #13 Belafon

He could easily overturn both federal drug laws and federal anti-discrimination laws in the same session.

I’ll admit, I don’t follow the Court nearly as closely as I used to, but Gorsuch doesn’t seem like he’s gone to extreme on anything thus far. I think he and Kagan will be the justices to watch going forward.

16
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:12:37am

re: #15 KGxvi

I’ll admit, I don’t follow the Court nearly as closely as I used to, but Gorsuch doesn’t seem like he’s gone to extreme on anything thus far. I think he and Kagan will be the justices to watch going forward.

My choices may be a bit extreme, but he does seem to favor limiting government reach vs debating the merits of the government’s authority.

17
jaunte  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:17:29am
18
Skip Intro  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:20:46am

19
Semper Fi  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:21:15am

I would like to think the sitting prez must vacate the White House in event he/she loses the election. Is that the law or has it only been gentleman’s agreement? I would like to have a warm and confident feeling backed by law because the Trumper is not a gentleman.
Does anyone know if the loser is compelled by law to vacate the WH?

20
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:22:02am

re: #7 NO SMOCKING GUN!

I have no doubt that Trump will fight to stay in office even when he loses the election next year.

a good primer happens to have been posted today on electoral-vote.com

What If Trump Loses But Won’t Concede?

- depends on how decisive the loss is
- it’s not so much ‘what if he won’t leave’
- the shenanigans would likely be before the inauguration

.:. make the victory decisive and virtually unconstestable (i know, i know)

21
I Would Prefer Not To  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:24:43am

re: #20 DangerMan

a good primer happens to have been posted today on electoral-vote.com

What If Trump Loses But Won’t Concede?

- depends on how decisive the loss is
- it’s not so much ‘what if he won’t leave’
- the shenanigans would likely be before the inauguration

.:. make the victory decisive and virtually unconstestable (i know, i know)

He’s going to resign a week early so Pence can pardon him. What do they have to lose?

22
Skip Intro  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:25:46am

re: #19 Semper Fi

I would like to think the sitting prez must vacate the White House in event he/she loses the election. Is that the law or has it only been gentleman’s agreement? I would like to have a warm and confident feeling backed by law because the Trumper is not a gentleman.
Does anyone know if the loser is compelled by law to vacate the WH?

First you will have to define what “loser” means, because I guarantee you Trump will and it won’t be what you think it is, and it certainly won’t be Trump.

23
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:27:37am

re: #21 I Would Prefer Not To

He’s going to resign a week early so Pence can pardon him. What do they have to lose?

“president trump, low energy. too old and weak to complete even one term”

24
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:29:12am

re: #19 Semper Fi

I would like to think the sitting prez must vacate the White House in event he/she loses the election. Is that the law or has it only been gentleman’s agreement? I would like to have a warm and confident feeling backed by law because the Trumper is not a gentleman.
Does anyone know if the loser is compelled by law to vacate the WH?

The law is this: On Jan 21, 2021, the new president will be sworn in. At that point, Trump is no longer president, and if he stays, he is illegally occupying the White House.

25
Semper Fi  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:29:41am

re: #20 DangerMan

a good primer happens to have been posted today on electoral-vote.com

What If Trump Loses But Won’t Concede?

- depends on how decisive the loss is
- it’s not so much ‘what if he won’t leave’
- the shenanigans would likely be before the inauguration

.:. make the victory decisive and virtually unconstestable (i know, i know)

I think Trump would take the position that an overwhelming loss is impossible because he is “loved” so much and therefor the count is a lie.

26
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:30:23am

re: #4 jaunte

Mike Pompeo met with Saudi King Salman today and a bottle of hand sanitizer

Professional operation, smooth as silk.

GoT product placement team is hurting for work.

27
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:31:24am

re: #20 DangerMan

Trump could sue in federal court alleging that non-citizens voted and the election should be thrown out. However, the presidential electors have to meet in their respective state capitals on Monday, Dec. 14, 2020, to formally cast their electoral votes. In theory, between Election Day (Tuesday, Nov. 3, 2020) and the day the electors meet, there could be a new election. However, in that short window, a judge would first have to throw out the election, then a new election would have to be scheduled and carried out. That is effectively impossible in less than 6 weeks. In states where the Republicans control the trifecta, the state legislature could quick-like-a-bunny pass a law allowing the state legislature to choose the electors. In other states that Trump lost, his strategy might be to try to prevent any electors from being chosen in order to get the Democrat below 270 electoral votes, thus forcing the election into the House.

The next key date is Jan. 3, 2021. That is when a joint session of Congress will open and count the electoral votes. If at least one senator and one representative of the newly elected Congress object, each chamber will then deliberate on what to do next. If they come back and reject the electoral votes of one or more states and no candidate reaches the mandatory 270, the House picks the president from among the top three electoral vote getters, with each state getting one vote. Even if the Democrats keep control of the House, Republicans will almost certainly control more state delegations. Then the Senate picks the vice president from among the top two finishers for that office.

So he would win the House since each delegation only gets one vote, and the Senate picks whomever.

Yes, he can steal the election even if it is utter runaway landslide. This is also the scenario that could literally break the country apart, with states like California refusing to recognize Trump is lawful President and National Guard being called to use force on millions of protestors. This way lies madness.

If it goes down this way, Civil War 2.0 is a very real possibility.

28
DodgerFan1988  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:32:45am

The cruelty is the point.

29
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:33:38am

re: #28 DodgerFan1988

[Embedded content]

The cruelty is the point.

Cruelty and profit.

30
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:34:20am

re: #24 Belafon

The law is this: On Jan 21, 2021, the new president will be sworn in. At that point, Trump is no longer president, and if he stays, he is illegally occupying the White House.

Jan 20, 2021

31
jaunte  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:34:21am
32
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:36:07am

re: #27 Scottish Dragon

Somehow I really don’t think most of the country would be too pleased about their votes being effectively invalidated.

33
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:36:54am

fixed a wonky link in #20

34
Skip Intro  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:37:59am

re: #32 Eclectic Cyborg

Somehow I really don’t think most of the country would be too pleased about their votes being effectively invalidated.

The rest of the country will be getting ready for THE BIG GAME and won’t really care.

35
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:40:27am

re: #34 Skip Intro

The rest of the country will be getting ready for THE BIG GAME and won’t really care.

The one most people don’t watch?

36
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:41:18am

Donald Trump, Jr.: ‘Roy Moore is going against my father’
yellowhammernews.com

There is every reason to believe that the Trump election-stealing machine plans to deprive the citizens of Alabama of their God-given right to anoint Roy Moore the GOP candidate. I make a point to warn my neighbors about that at every chance encounter.

37
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:44:24am

re: #32 Eclectic Cyborg

Somehow I really don’t think most of the country would be too pleased about their votes being effectively invalidated.

Do you think the GOP would care? Do they act like they give shit about what people think? GOP legislatures in the last two years have made a habit of stripping incoming Democratic governors of their powers. I have no doubt they could try to pull off the scenario above if they have the power trifecta in the right states or a supermajority that can over ride a veto.

There is no bottom. They will do anything…absolutely anything…to keep power.

38
jaunte  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:45:15am
39
Skip Intro  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:46:22am

re: #37 Scottish Dragon

Check Oregon and how the state GOP has teamed up with the militias to see what 2020 could end up looking like. This shit isn’t funny any more.

40
jaunte  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:46:42am

“…Answers were also influenced by political beliefs. While most respondents overall opposed military action against North Korea, the “majority of Trump supporters prefer the US strike in every scenario, except when confidence in the effectiveness of the US conventional strike is 50 percent”—and even then it remained at 44 percent as opposed to a mere 8 percent for non-supporters. Separately, those who backed the death penalty were actually more eager to inflict a higher death toll among North Korean civilians.”
newsweek.com

41
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:48:44am

re: #39 Skip Intro

Check Oregon and how the state GOP has teamed up with the militias to see what 2020 could end up looking like. This shit isn’t funny any more.

Gonna look more like Somalia than any USA I recall living in…

42
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:48:51am

re: #27 Scottish Dragon

So he would win the House since each delegation only gets one vote, and the Senate picks whomever.

Yes, he can steal the election even if it is utter runaway landslide. This is also the scenario that could literally break the country apart, with states like California refusing to recognize Trump is lawful President and National Guard being called to use force on millions of protestors. This way lies madness.

If it goes down this way, Civil War 2.0 is a very real possibility.

By my count, Republicans control 25 state delegations in the House. There are three or four that are split evenly, and a couple more where swinging two seats would give Democrats control a majority by state delegations.

I don’t think it comes to that. More likely, Congress would be very weary of overturning the electoral college vote, unless there was something really screwy happening.

43
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:49:33am

re: #40 jaunte

Of course they like the idea of bombing a bunch of Asians out of existence.

However, they’re such fucking idiots they apparently don’t realize how damaging a counterstrike would be for ‘Merica.

44
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:50:28am

re: #39 Skip Intro

Check Oregon and how the state GOP has teamed up with the militias to see what 2020 could end up looking like. This shit isn’t funny any more.

I have seen this coming for several years now, and it is a reason why I left the GOP to begin with. It started becoming an apocalyptic death cult.

I am very much afraid that people are going to be killed over whatever happens in the next election, and that Trump and McConnell will unleash a genie that cannot be put back in the bottle when shooting starts.

The acquisition of power has its’ own logic, and it tends to ratchet towards violence and tyranny.

45
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:51:08am

re: #40 jaunte

“…Answers were also influenced by political beliefs. While most respondents overall opposed military action against North Korea, the “majority of Trump supporters prefer the US strike in every scenario, except when confidence in the effectiveness of the US conventional strike is 50 percent”—and even then it remained at 44 percent as opposed to a mere 8 percent for non-supporters. Separately, those who backed the death penalty were actually more eager to inflict a higher death toll among North Korean civilians.”
newsweek.com

For once, the headline is less volatile than the content. Those numbers are for approval of a FIRST STRIKE. Every president since Truman has rejected the first-strike option.

46
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:52:29am

I vaguely recall this scenario playing out before, with the state legislators leaving the state to avoid a quorum. I can’t remember where it happened, I want to say, maybe Montana or possibly Missouri in the 90s? But google is only giving me stuff on Oregon right now.

47
lawhawk  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:52:51am
48
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:53:19am

re: #42 KGxvi

By my count, Republicans control 25 state delegations in the House. There are three or four that are split evenly, and a couple more where swinging two seats would give Democrats control a majority by state delegations.

I don’t think it comes to that. More likely, Congress would be very weary of overturning the electoral college vote, unless there was something really screwy happening.

Trump’s best movie it to force this into the House. All bets are off after that. State GOP legislatures tend to be more wild and extreme that what you see nationally (God knows they are here in NC) and if they can throw the election they will.

49
Charles Johnson  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:54:36am
50
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:54:37am

re: #46 KGxvi

Happened in Texas a few years ago. Dems fled across the border to Arkansas.

Nobody threatened to start shooting, though.

51
lawhawk  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:55:30am

re: #46 KGxvi

It’s happened before - Texas Democrats fled to New Mexico over redistricting legislation.

It’s also happened at the US Senate too.

52
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:57:38am

re: #48 Scottish Dragon

Trump’s best movie it to force this into the House. All bets are off after that. State GOP legislatures tend to be more wild and extreme that what you see nationally (God knows they are here in NC) and if they can throw the election they will.

He’s going to need a majority of House delegations, so he has to get to 26. Under the current configuration, we’d have a hung House. But there are plenty of places where Democrats could try to pick up a couple of seats in the House that would shift the balance to where the Democrats control 26 delegations. If that’s the case, then he’s out of luck. And that’s assuming the House even decides to reject some electoral votes to get the winner under 270 votes. I just don’t see how that happens, not given Trump’s numbers as it stands today, anyway.

53
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:58:09am

re: #50 Scottish Dragon

re: #51 lawhawk

Thanks, I knew it’d happened before.

54
Skip Intro  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:58:35am

re: #50 Scottish Dragon

Happened in Texas a few years ago. Dems fled across the border to Arkansas.

Nobody threatened to start shooting, though.

That’s the new Bundy twist. This is what happens when you let terrorists take over government propery without an immediate response.

55
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:59:56am
56
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:02:53pm

re: #52 KGxvi

He’s going to need a majority of House delegations, so he has to get to 26. Under the current configuration, we’d have a hung House.

That would be utterly nuts. If anything could precipitate armed militias in the street and martial law, that would be a scenario to really avoid.

Hope to God none of this happens and we take enough state legislatures to keep the possibility off the shelf.

57
i(m)p(each)sos  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:04:15pm

re: #32 Eclectic Cyborg

Somehow I really don’t think most of the country would be too pleased about their votes being effectively invalidated.

You mean like the way the EC worked in 2000 and 2016? Not as dramatic, sure, but the result was still “effectively invalidating” the votes of most of the country. And if there’s going to be a revolution about that, it’s pretty slow getting started.

58
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:04:32pm

re: #46 KGxvi

I vaguely recall this scenario playing out before, with the state legislators leaving the state to avoid a quorum. I can’t remember where it happened, I want to say, maybe Montana or possibly Missouri in the 90s? But google is only giving me stuff on Oregon right now.

Alaska?

59
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:07:04pm

re: #46 KGxvi

I vaguely recall this scenario playing out before, with the state legislators leaving the state to avoid a quorum. I can’t remember where it happened, I want to say, maybe Montana or possibly Missouri in the 90s? But google is only giving me stuff on Oregon right now.

wisconsin

60
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:07:54pm

re: #57 i(m)p(each)sos

You mean like the way the EC worked in 2000 and 2016? Not as dramatic, sure, but the result was still “effectively invalidating” the votes of most of the country. And if there’s going to be a revolution about that, it’s pretty slow getting started.

Lot’s of people understand the EC in the abstract. The scenario described above will blow plenty of gaskets.

61
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:08:50pm

I do not see Civil War or Trump refusing to vacate the Presidency, but they will certainly launch a narrative that the Democratic President is somehow not “legitimate” and therefore nobody that they will work with.

62
wrenchwench  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:09:19pm
63
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:11:50pm

re: #60 Belafon

Lot’s of people understand the EC in the abstract. The scenario described above will blow plenty of gaskets.

its right up there in the obscurity realm with knowing all the steps of impeachment

64
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:17:50pm

re: #62 wrenchwench

I wonder if we’ll see the “Oil Lives Matter” movement come out of this.

65
wrenchwench  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:21:39pm

re: #64 Belafon

I wonder if we’ll see the “Oil Lives Matter” movement come out of this.

Punsters go home!!

66
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:24:09pm

re: #65 wrenchwench

Punsters go home!!

I’m being serious. A minority group is being asked to be taken seriously, which will once again threaten a group of white people.

67
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:24:10pm

re: #61 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I do not see Civil War or Trump refusing to vacate the Presidency, but they will certainly launch a narrative that the Democratic President is somehow not “legitimate” and therefore nobody that they will work with.

He will refuse to leave. He cannot admit defeat and he knows he is at grave legal risk the moment he leaves. He has been building the “Illegals rigged the election” theme for two years now and he will weaponize it in 2020 to mount legal challenges IMHO. I see no reason for him to NOT to do it.

He does not respect the tradition of peaceful turnover of power, and he does not recognize or respect anything else beyond his immediate fulfillment of needs. What seems obvious to me at this point is that Trump will do the worst thing possible if allowed, and he will do it without thought or hesitation. Moreover, he equates use of armed force with strength. He already toyed with the idea of a National Guard occupation of Chicago a year ago. When things get dicey here and protestors have taken over the streets to demand he leaves, he knows exactly what his base will demand and love:

Beating us and shooting at us.

68
goddamnedfrank  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:24:46pm
69
ericblair  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:25:19pm

re: #52 KGxvi

He’s going to need a majority of House delegations, so he has to get to 26. Under the current configuration, we’d have a hung House. But there are plenty of places where Democrats could try to pick up a couple of seats in the House that would shift the balance to where the Democrats control 26 delegations. If that’s the case, then he’s out of luck. And that’s assuming the House even decides to reject some electoral votes to get the winner under 270 votes. I just don’t see how that happens, not given Trump’s numbers as it stands today, anyway.

This is in serious banana republic territory, but it’s not exactly terra incognita in other parts of the world. Even Kim Jong Fucking Un needs to “win” elections to keep a veneer of legitimacy, and this sort of shit is an obvious coup. At this point, you start counting noses in the military and security apparatus, and it’s more the members of the general officer corps that count than whichever crony is defense minister. Also, you might want to take a look at the militias of the bigger states as well.

So, at this point, if you’re going to transparently steal an election, it’s a good idea not to have pissed off the military, intelligence apparatus, and federal police. Trump hasn’t really done well here.

70
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:26:02pm

re: #68 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

71
ericblair  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:26:55pm

re: #67 Scottish Dragon

I see no reason for him to NOT to do it.

He’s a coward?

72
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:27:14pm

re: #69 ericblair

This is in serious banana republic territory, but it’s not exactly terra incognita in other parts of the world. Even Kim Jong Fucking Un needs to “win” elections to keep a veneer of legitimacy, and this sort of shit is an obvious coup. At this point, you start counting noses in the military and security apparatus, and it’s more the members of the general officer corps that count than whichever crony is defense minister. Also, you might want to take a look at the militias of the bigger states as well.

So, at this point, if you’re going to transparently steal an election, it’s a good idea not to have pissed off the military, intelligence apparatus, and federal police. Trump hasn’t really done well here.

True. I think he has every reason to try for it though, if he looses the general election.

73
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:29:29pm

re: #71 ericblair

He’s a coward?

He wants to stay out of prison and be a “winner” more than anything else. Also, he is telling other people to do it or depending on them (in the states) to take the hint. Trump always lets his lawyers be the attack dogs for things he cannot bear to do face to face.

74
wrenchwench  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:34:03pm

re: #66 Belafon

I’m being serious. A minority group is being asked to be taken seriously, which will once again threaten a group of white people.

Ahhhh, the heritage of all those well-diggers and pipeline workers must be defended!

75
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:34:59pm

re: #74 wrenchwench

Ahhhh, the heritage of all those well-diggers and pipeline workers must be defended!

people who come and stay in a community until the construction project has moved on

76
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:35:30pm

I did not know this:

On Nov. 26, Bush was ahead statewide by 537 votes, but a court ordered a hand recount of 70,000 ballots that vote-counting machines had rejected. On Dec. 12, the Supreme Court overruled the Florida Supreme Court’s decision to allow a recount, thus giving Bush a narrow victory. While all this was going on, the Republican-controlled Florida state legislature was holding a special session to pass a law giving itself the power to pick the electors should it not like what the courts finally decided. In the end, that wasn’t necessary.

So it has already been given a test run. Fuck me.

electoral-vote.com

77
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:42:14pm

Nobody can know exactly how relevant the 200-year-old story of the decline and fall of the Federalist Party is today. However, it does suggest that while the American system of government has a lot of room for political partisans to claim more power than is their due, there is also such a thing as “too much.” If the GOP does engage in shenanigans to keep Donald Trump in office, then non-Republicans will perceive (with some justification) that in the span of two decades, the minority party conspired to steal the White House (twice), control of the Supreme court, a sizable number of seats in Congress and/or in state legislatures through gerrymandering, and a fair number of governors’ mansions and other positions through ballot-box manipulation (slashing voter rolls, voter ID laws, wonky voting hours, etc.). A second civil war is unlikely, and today’s GOP may or may not suffer the same fate as yesterday’s Federalists. However, as we have been reminded repeatedly in the last several years, this is a federal system where state governments have a great deal of power. A situation where the Californias and New Yorks and Oregons of the world largely ignore the federal government, up to and including withholding tax revenue, is certainly a possibility. It is not actually all that easy for the Feds to put down wide-scale rebellion (see, for example, the anti-Vietnam War protests). So, any Senate Majority Leaders who think they are bulletproof, and that there will be no consequences for their actions, regardless of how undemocratic they are, should think very carefully before acting on that instinct. (V & Z)

78
Amory Blaine  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:42:49pm

Even Jennifer Rubin is dragging Chuck Todd.

Trump’s lies need to be exposed in real time

…Allowing Trump and his ilk to bluster and flat-out lie their way through interviews might be the path of least resistance when trying to cover a lot of ground. However, if Trump and his teammates are not stopped dead in their tracks, the media become a platform for deceiving voters.

79
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:43:56pm

re: #76 Scottish Dragon

I did not know this:

So it has already been given a test run. Fuck me.

electoral-vote.com

Most states already have laws that basically force the electors to vote the way the state went, which was one of the reasons there weren’t any real defections in 2016.

80
Skip Intro  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:44:29pm

re: #78 Amory Blaine

Even Jennifer Rubin is dragging Chuck Todd.

Trump’s lies need to be exposed in real time

Like in 2016 where he got a complete pass?

81
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:44:35pm
82
DodgerFan1988  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:44:40pm

This is very disappointing. The Right-Wing exploiting Holocaust survivors to support their human rights violations of immigrant children.

83
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:45:35pm

re: #80 Skip Intro

Like in 2016 where he got a complete pass?

To call out his lies in person or even at all, is to endanger access. And their idea of “journalism” is simply celebrity access. They are not about to endanger that.

84
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:47:28pm

re: #79 Belafon

Most states already have laws that basically force the electors to vote the way the state went, which was one of the reasons there weren’t any real defections in 2016.

NC and WI had laws and constitutions giving certain powers to the governor, which did not stop the GOP legislatures from convening emergency lame duck sessions to change those laws and amend their constitutions when Democrats got elected.

They did it right here in NC, and don’t think for one minute they wouldn’t do it again for the biggest prize in the country.

85
Charles Johnson  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:47:56pm
86
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:48:03pm

re: #82 DodgerFan1988

This is very disappointing. The Right-Wing exploiting Holocaust survivors to support their human rights violations of immigrant children.

For all of those, there have been plenty of survivors calling them concentration camps. And then we also have the Japenese who were interred in camps that Roosevelt called concentration camps.

The fact that people like Pollack feel they need to hide behind the Holocaust to justify these camps is telling.

87
DodgerFan1988  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:52:27pm

re: #86 Belafon

For all of those, there have been plenty of survivors calling them concentration camps. And then we also have the Japenese who were interred in camps that Roosevelt called concentration camps.

The fact that people like Pollack feel they need to hide behind the Holocaust to justify these camps is telling.

Dear Lord.

88
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:52:46pm
89
danarchy  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:53:47pm

re: #51 lawhawk

It’s happened before - Texas Democrats fled to New Mexico over redistricting legislation.

It’s also happened at the US Senate too.

Democrats in Wisconsin did it to try to stop Scott Walkers union busting bill

90
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:53:55pm
91
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:57:10pm

re: #87 DodgerFan1988

Dear Lord.

From here, history.com, about relocating Japenese to “internment camps”:

An elderly man attempted to flee and was shot and killed. After settling in, at least two men were shot and killed while trying to escape.

92
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:57:36pm

Did AOC actively compare these camps to the Holocaust or did she just dare to use the “wrong” term to describe them?

93
I Would Prefer Not To  Jun 24, 2019 • 12:58:22pm

re: #90 Scottish Dragon

[Embedded content]

I learned that they were concentration camps in history class. I also learned they they were wrong.

94
Amory Blaine  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:00:08pm

AOC calling them concentration camps is the best thing that could have happened for these caged children. At least people are talking now.

95
BigPapa  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:00:56pm

When your ideology is reactionary and based on hating your enemy it encumbers you to irrational positions based on contrarianism or just plain taunting or trolling. Currently:

- They’re not concentration camps
- So what if a gov murdered a journo, there’s a lot of money on the table and they’d buy it from somebody else anyway
- Democrats are the real racists
- All those 22 or so women accusing Trump are lying
- Everything bad is socialism

As time goes on it will get worse becoming more caricatured and predictable. This is not a viable political party any more.

96
goddamnedfrank  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:01:47pm

re: #92 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Did AOC actively compare these camps to the Holocaust or did she just dare to use the “wrong” term to describe them?

Neither. A bunch of disingenuous people are conflating concentration camps with death camps and ignoring the fact that the latter are but a subset of the former.

97
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:02:42pm
98
BigPapa  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:03:25pm

Amazing how conservatives are hard pressing Political Correctness about concentration camps.

99
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:03:53pm

re: #96 goddamnedfrank

Neither. A bunch of disingenuous people are conflating concentration camps with death camps and ignoring the fact that the latter is but a subset of the former.

Sort of like the way almost any online discussion of rape almost immediately leads to a conflation of violent rape with date rape or various forms of non-consensual & statutory rape, etc…

100
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:08:44pm

re: #69 ericblair

This is in serious banana republic territory, but it’s not exactly terra incognita in other parts of the world. Even Kim Jong Fucking Un needs to “win” elections to keep a veneer of legitimacy, and this sort of shit is an obvious coup. At this point, you start counting noses in the military and security apparatus, and it’s more the members of the general officer corps that count than whichever crony is defense minister. Also, you might want to take a look at the militias of the bigger states as well.

So, at this point, if you’re going to transparently steal an election, it’s a good idea not to have pissed off the military, intelligence apparatus, and federal police. Trump hasn’t really done well here.

its more than just not pissing them off

they dont want him

101
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:09:12pm

re: #97 Scottish Dragon

Just imagine working months and months then using the money to buy a piece of jewelry, then finding out that the Jewelry store is giving out the same piece to the masses for free.

Just imagine that you worked hard and bought your freedom from your master and then Abraham Lincoln came along and freed all the other slaves for nothing. Wouldn’t that make your freedom feel worthless?

102
BigPapa  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:10:56pm

re: #100 DangerMan

I’ve been calling them Banana Republicans for a while now. More appropro than ever.

103
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:11:56pm

re: #81 Scottish Dragon

It reinforces the radical belief that the United States was founded by racist white men who installed a system whereby white guys would run everything and blacks, women and others would be exploited.

yup that’s exactly what they did do
billo nails it. //

104
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:13:43pm

re: #86 Belafon

For all of those, there have been plenty of survivors calling them concentration camps. And then we also have the Japenese who were interred in camps that Roosevelt called concentration camps.

The fact that people like Pollack feel they need to hide behind the Holocaust to justify these camps is telling.

and to repeat an unoriginal thought, that arguing over the word is more important than what is actually happening in those places

105
DodgerFan1988  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:16:45pm

No hope for humanity.

106
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:16:54pm
107
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:17:35pm

re: #104 DangerMan

and to repeat an unoriginal thought, that arguing over the word is more important than what is actually happening in those places

that is the whole point, the GOP are good at spinning the discussion off into irrelevancy, like turning the Kavanaugh hearings into a he-said-she-said debate instead of focusing on whether this fellow was fit for a lifetime appointment to America’s highest judicial body

108
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:18:33pm

re: #76 Scottish Dragon

I did not know this:

So it has already been given a test run. Fuck me.

electoral-vote.com

That was a slightly unique situation where Florida was facing the prospect of having no electoral votes. There’s also Section 2 of the 14th Amendment that could come into play:

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

I’m not sure that provision has ever actually been tested, but it could come into play.

109
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:19:51pm

“Indians not taxed”?

110
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:22:57pm

re: #109 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

“Indians not taxed”?

Previously, Native Americans who lived on reservations were not subject to taxation. That same language is included in the census clause as well.

111
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:24:25pm

re: #110 KGxvi

Previously, Native Americans who lived on reservations were not subject to taxation. That same language is included in the census clause as well.

I know, I assume that the 14th Amendment overrides that clause now.

112
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:25:41pm

re: #110 KGxvi

To be clear, Native Americans weren’t necessarily automatically US citizens until 1924.

113
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:27:25pm

re: #111 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

No, the “Indians not taxed” language is also in the 14th Amendment. In 1924, Congress granted all Native Americans US citizenship. Which had the effect of changing their standing with respect to taxation.

114
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:29:53pm

‘Straight’

115
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:30:59pm

As apposed to Gay of Hormuz

116
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:31:55pm

re: #108 KGxvi

That was a slightly unique situation where Florida was facing the prospect of having no electoral votes. There’s also Section 2 of the 14th Amendment that could come into play:

I’m not sure that provision has ever actually been tested, but it could come into play.

Here there be dragons. The guardrails have never been tested like this before.

117
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:31:57pm

re: #97 Scottish Dragon

Just imagine working months and months then using the money to buy a piece of jewelry, then finding out that the Jewelry store is giving out the same piece to the masses for free.

they call that “a sale”

(notwithstanding the ‘free’ part)

118
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:33:02pm

re: #114 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Because we have had the best trained navy in the world for several decades and have also recognized that open trade lanes is in our national security interest. This isn’t fucking hard to understand.

119
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:34:33pm

re: #105 DodgerFan1988

[Embedded content]

No hope for humanity.

‘it’s up to the parents’

but we’re gonna mistreat the children

120
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:34:58pm

A new round of sanctions should finally make him understand the US’ resolve, and that he can’t use his death 3 decades ago to hide from our nations reach
//

121
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:38:09pm

re: #116 Scottish Dragon

Here there be dragons. The guardrails have never been tested like this before.

Mostly because, the last time we were in this situation, only white males could vote, and news didn’t travel as fast as it does now.

122
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:38:36pm

garlic rolls have a way of making the house…..aaaahhh

123
Scottish Dragon  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:41:41pm
124
Charles Johnson  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:41:43pm
125
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:43:52pm

re: #123 Scottish Dragon

for the billionth time:

SEEKING ASYLUM IS NOT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, IT IS COMPLETELY FUCKING LEGAL YOU JACKWADASSHOLEMOTHERFUCKERS!

126
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:45:10pm

re: #123 Scottish Dragon

It’s actually very simple. If you don’t want to risk ending up in a detention center, then don’t illegally migrate to a foreign country.

seeking asylum is not illegal migration

if you can confuse and conflate those two concepts, then do not throw hissy fits over comparing detention centers to concentration camps

127
William Lewis  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:45:14pm

re: #113 KGxvi

No, the “Indians not taxed” language is also in the 14th Amendment. In 1924, Congress granted all Native Americans US citizenship. Which had the effect of changing their standing with respect to taxation.

The single finest moment in Coolidge’s presidency.

128
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:45:59pm

re: #125 KGxvi

for the billionth time:

SEEKING ASYLUM IS NOT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, IT IS COMPLETELY FUCKING LEGAL YOU JACKWADASSHOLEMOTHERFUCKERS!

129
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:47:36pm

re: #114 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

‘Straight’

[Embedded content]

The continued abusive relationship he has with the English language aside, he seems to be slowly realizing this whole Iranian business is not an election winner like Bolton promised him and is now trying to find excuses to back out of it. He’s all but begging for Iran to give him a photo-op so he can claim a “win.”

130
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:47:40pm

re: #123 Scottish Dragon

It’s actually very simple. If you don’t want to risk ending up in a detention center, then don’t illegally migrate to a foreign country

- many of them have presented themselves legally for asylum. families still separated. rancid conditions dont seem to consider ‘legal’ from ‘illegal’

- you wanna treat a three year old (or younger) like shit because of what their parents ‘may’ have done?

131
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:49:35pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

The continued abusive relationship he has with the English language aside…

It also speaks volume about his management style that he does not let anybody check his messages before they go out. Indicates that he does not consider his decisions either

132
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:49:59pm

re: #126 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

seeking asylum is not illegal migration

if you can confuse and conflate those two concepts, then do not throw hissy fits over comparing detention centers to concentration camps

These dime store wannabe-lawyers are convinced that the asylum laws require any refugees from South America to seek asylum in Mexico only. Or that they must go to some place within their home countries, such as a US embassy, in order to apply for asylum. Because we’re all familiar with refugees sitting in a queue to seek relief like they’re waiting at the damned DMV.

133
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:50:21pm

re: #124 Charles Johnson

If you’re reduced to arguing …

“Sure, we’re taking children away from their parents and putting them in camps but they aren’t CONCENTRATION camps!”

… you have already fucking lost the argument and your soul as well.

so we agree on the facts
we’re just arguing over what to call it

134
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:51:16pm

re: #131 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

It also speaks volume about his management style that he does not let anybody check his messages before they go out. Indicates that he does not consider his decisions either

That’s been his MO for decades, though. He still believes he’s his best PR person.

135
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:52:02pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

The continued abusive relationship he has with the English language aside, he seems to be slowly realizing this whole Iranian business is not an election winner like Bolton promised him and is now trying to find excuses to back out of it. He’s all but begging for Iran to give him a photo-op so he can claim a “win.”

fortunately (i hope) enough people are starting to see (and say) you dont get credit for putting out a fire you started

136
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:52:56pm

re: #131 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

It also speaks volume about his management style that he does not let anybody check his messages before they go out. Indicates that he does not consider his decisions either

he’s way more the press secretary than president

137
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:53:03pm

re: #127 William Lewis

The single finest moment in Coolidge’s presidency.

I’ve not read much on Coolidge. But judging by his wikipedia page, perhaps I should. He definitely fit in with the laziee-faire economic policy of the time, but was also surprisingly liberal on civil rights issues.

138
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:53:51pm

re: #134 KGxvi

That’s been his MO for decades, though. He still believes he’s his best PR person.

no one else will do it (except sarah, and she’s out the door)

139
DodgerFan1988  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:53:54pm

re: #125 KGxvi

for the billionth time:

SEEKING ASYLUM IS NOT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, IT IS COMPLETELY FUCKING LEGAL YOU JACKWADASSHOLEMOTHERFUCKERS!

Even if they are “illegal,” that’s still no excuse to mistreat them like “subhuman scum.” These people have no conscience.

140
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:54:16pm

re: #135 DangerMan

fortunately (i hope) enough people are starting to see (and say) you dont get credit for putting out a fire you started

It would be nice…but I doubt it. They just don’t want another war and if he can get a “win” via another photo-op and a worthless piece of paper, then the public is prepared to accept that.

141
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:54:30pm

re: #139 DodgerFan1988

Even if they are “illegal,” that’s still no excuse to mistreat them like “subhuman scum.” These people have no conscience.

They look forward to any excuse to do so

142
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:55:28pm

re: #139 DodgerFan1988

Even if they are “illegal,” that’s still no excuse to mistreat them like “subhuman scum.” These people have no conscience.

We’re talking the people who cheered at rallies when their dictator-in-chief called on cops to smack around those they arrest.

143
Mike Lamb  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:56:02pm

re: #97 Scottish Dragon

[Embedded content]

By this “logic”, it’s injustice when any product is sold for a better price at a later date.

144
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:58:51pm

re: #143 Mike Lamb

By this “logic”, it’s injustice when any product is sold for a better price at a later date.

Well, I certainly felt cheated when Bethesda dropped the price of Fallout 76 by $20 just two weeks after release.

145
Patricia Kayden  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:59:22pm

re: #8 Belafon

Yes I assume investigations are going on. I’m just not seeing them. They don’t appear to be making a splash in the media.

146
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 1:59:23pm

re: #143 Mike Lamb

By this “logic”, it’s injustice when any product is sold for a better price at a later date.

sale, discount, liquidation, reduced

it’s all rhetorical twaddle intended to ‘gotcha’. and they all fall flat

147
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:00:54pm

re: #145 Patricia Kayden

Yes I assume investigations are going on. I’m just not seeing them. They don’t appear to be making a splash in the media.

Hence the weakness of the “Constant investigations can substitute for impeachment!” argument, namely that if nobody feels that the matter is of grave importance, then nobody gives a damn. The leadership is not running a brave “fight” against the WH, they’re going through the motions for the sake of doing so.

148
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:01:08pm

you know who’s an idiot?
Paul Ryan’s an idiot

Former Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) told PBS Newshour that President Trump’s popularity is because he stands up for the “forgotten man.”

149
Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:01:34pm

re: #137 KGxvi

I’ve not read much on Coolidge. But judging by his wikipedia page, perhaps I should. He definitely fit in with the laziee-faire economic policy of the time, but was also surprisingly liberal on civil rights issues.

Though he also signed the 1924 Immigration Act - which included the Asian Exclusion Act. So despite personal reservations he just went along with the nativist (and isolationist) wave that was running strong at the time.

150
Patricia Kayden  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:04:29pm

re: #21 I Would Prefer Not To

Pence can’t pardon him from state charges though. NY is gonna get him. Or so I hope.

151
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:05:44pm

re: #1 jaunte

#BREAKING 300+ refugee kids were moved out of Texas #TrumpCamps after disgusting conditions reported. WHERE DID THEY GO? #WhereAreTheChildren?#FamiliesBelongTogether!

gee- if things are so all fired great in these places - as they keep saying - why would they think they needed to move ‘most’ of them out? //

152
Patricia Kayden  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:05:46pm

re: #148 DangerMan

What popularity? His approving ratings are at around 40%. Most of us can’t stand him.

153
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:06:34pm

re: #151 DangerMan

gee- if things are so all fired great in these places - as they keep saying - why would they think they needed to move ‘most’ of them out? //

to get them out of sight until they can think of something

154
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:07:11pm

re: #152 Patricia Kayden

What popularity? His approving ratings are at around 40%. Most of us can’t stand him.

(i said he was an idiot)

155
DodgerFan1988  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:07:47pm

Fox News already have a talking point if a virus breaks out in one of the camps and kills scores of children:
“That’s why they’re detained for our safety! To prevent diseases from spreading to Americans! Told you so!”

156
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:08:25pm

re: #153 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

to get them out of sight until they can think of something

but but but that would mean something was wrong….

157
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:09:42pm

re: #152 Patricia Kayden

What popularity? His approving ratings are at around 40%. Most of us can’t stand him.

Gotta think in wingnut terms. When the polls shows he’s less popular than pubic lice, then they’re “fake,” “inaccurate,” or “biased.” Hence why they’ll make such ridiculous statements like (paraphrased) “If they didn’t oversample so many Dems, his numbers would be above 60%!” They believe him to be a wildly successful president, with the lack of reflection into the polls indicative not of some inherent issue with him or his work, but the people compiling the polls having a hidden agenda.

158
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:10:36pm

re: #155 DodgerFan1988

[Embedded content]

Fox News already have a talking point if a virus breaks out in one of the camps and kills scores of children:
“That’s why they’re detained for our safety! To prevent diseases from spreading to Americans! Told you so!”

prove a detainee brought the virus in and they didnt all catch it from staff or due to the conditions

159
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:11:36pm

re: #156 DangerMan

but but but that would mean something was wrong….

“No, it just means that this crisis has led to regrettable overcrowding in these otherwise fine facilities! If the Dems would just stop trying to beat Trump and work with him, we’d have all the funding we needed to build adequate facilities…though we wouldn’t need them because The Wall would quickly bring an end to all illegal immigration!”

160
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:11:43pm
161
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:11:45pm

re: #157 Targetpractice

Gotta think in wingnut terms. When the polls shows he’s less popular than pubic lice, then they’re “fake,” “inaccurate,” or “biased.” Hence why they’ll make such ridiculous statements like (paraphrased) “If they didn’t oversample so many Dems, his numbers would be above 60%!” They believe him to be a wildly successful president, with the lack of reflection into the polls indicative not of some inherent issue with him or his work, but the people compiling the polls having a hidden agenda.

if they only sampled people with MAGA hats, his number would be 100%

162
Jay C  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:12:18pm

re: #118 KGxvi

Because we have had the best trained navy in the world for several decades and have also recognized that open trade lanes is in our national security interest. This isn’t fucking hard to understand.

Except that in Trump’s (sorry excuse for a) mind, no task is worth doing unless there’s a direct financial payoff involved. Preferably one to Donald Trump personally, or to the Trump Org., but the US generally will do….

So I’m guessing The Donald would be just fine with the Iranians (Saudis, Gulf States, whoever) subcontracting tanker-escort duties to the Chinese Navy? Or the Russians? I mean, 100,000-ton supercarriers are nice warships for sure: but wouldn’t somebody else be willing/able to do the job cheaper??

163
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:13:19pm

re: #159 Targetpractice

“No, it just means that this crisis has led to regrettable overcrowding in these otherwise fine facilities! If the Dems would just stop trying to beat Trump and work with him, we’d have all the funding we needed to build adequate facilities…though we wouldn’t need them because The Wall would quickly bring an end to all illegal immigration!”

maybe that lady prosecutor should have tried that in court last week

164
jaunte  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:20:10pm
165
Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:22:49pm

re: #158 DangerMan

prove a detainee brought the virus in and they didnt all catch it from staff or due to the conditions

They won’t be interested in truth or proof. Just the rapid seizure of the discussion towards declaring the immigrants (children or not) as a threat. And any real discussion of the conditions or cause will be pushed to the back page and ignored.

166
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:26:53pm

re: #158 DangerMan

prove a detainee brought the virus in and they didnt all catch it from staff or due to the conditions

These nimrods have blamed every single widespread outbreak of disease in the past 2 decades on “illegals.” I still remember their bleating back in ‘14 that if the US didn’t immediately close her borders, a terrorist might sneak across infected with Ebola and cause an epidemic.

167
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:27:29pm

re: #102 BigPapa

I’ve been calling them Banana Republicans for a while now. More appropro than ever.

I’ve been calling them that since 2000.

168
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:30:42pm

I strongly suspect if I ran a poll of college-educated voters, most would feel that their education was “devalued” less by the possibility that college debt might be forgiven…than finding their years of studying and training made useless flipping burgers during the Great Recession. Or being informed that, after years of loyal service, they’re being “let go” due to “downsizing,” BUT will be allowed a few weeks more pay if they should choose to stick around long enough to train their replacement from India who works for less because he’s not carting around a mountain of student loan debt.

169
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:36:07pm

re: #155 DodgerFan1988

Fox News already have a talking point if a virus breaks out in one of the camps and kills scores of children:
“That’s why they’re detained for our safety! To prevent diseases from spreading to Americans! Told you so!”

“Anne Frank deserved to die from typhus.”

170
Patricia Kayden  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:39:20pm

re: #38 jaunte

But calling them Deplorables is the real problem.

171
Amory Blaine  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:49:05pm

White House moves to bar counselor Kellyanne Conway from testifying to Congress about alleged violations of Hatch Act

The White House will block counselor Kellyanne Conway from testifying before a House panel about allegations by a government watchdog that she violated the Hatch Act, increasing the likelihood of another subpoena battle between the two branches of government.

White House lawyers planned to reject the House Oversight Committee’s request for Conway to appear at a Wednesday hearing, according to two White House officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity Monday to freely discuss private deliberations.

The White House counsel will argue that in accordance with long-standing precedent, staff in the West Wing do not testify before Congress.

House Democrats counter, however, that the White House has no right to claim executive privileged or immunity for Conway because the alleged violations in questions deal with her personal actions — not her duties advising the president or working in the West Wing.

172
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:52:44pm

re: #171 Amory Blaine

White House moves to bar counselor Kellyanne Conway from testifying to Congress about alleged violations of Hatch Act

Congress calls WH staff to testify, WH tells them to fuck off, and the matter goes to court.

Second verse, same as the first.

173
Amory Blaine  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:53:07pm

Charles tweet featured on Mediaite article.

174
jaunte  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:53:39pm

re: #169 Belafon

“Anne Frank deserved to die from typhus.”

175
Patricia Kayden  Jun 24, 2019 • 2:57:49pm

re: #174 jaunte

176
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:01:33pm

re: #175 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

You don’t want to go to the camps? Well, then you shouldn’t have been Jewish. Oh, you say you’re not Jewish? Well, your mother was Jewish, so by law you’re Jewish. Now get on the train or be shot dead, it’s your choice.

////////

177
mmmirele  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:01:50pm

re: #46 KGxvi

I vaguely recall this scenario playing out before, with the state legislators leaving the state to avoid a quorum. I can’t remember where it happened, I want to say, maybe Montana or possibly Missouri in the 90s? But google is only giving me stuff on Oregon right now.

Texas. 1979. A bunch of Democratic state senators went and hid over bills that would have moved Texas’ presidential primary date.

lrl.texas.gov

A “Bee Man” delivers a message to the Texas state House.

There have been others, but afaik, this is the one, the only, the original quorum busting action.

178
I Would Prefer Not To  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:02:14pm
179
William Lewis  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:10:48pm
180
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:21:05pm
181
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:23:42pm
182
gocart mozart  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:23:48pm
183
gocart mozart  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:24:41pm
184
DodgerFan1988  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:31:27pm

Don’t call them “deplorables.”

185
Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:33:34pm

And remember that most of them consider themselves good proper Christians as well.

186
SteelPH  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:42:38pm

re: #185 Feline Fearless Leader

It’s a Nazi jamboree.

187
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:44:19pm

re: #125 KGxvi

for the billionth time:

SEEKING ASYLUM IS NOT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, IT IS COMPLETELY FUCKING LEGAL YOU JACKWADASSHOLEMOTHERFUCKERS!

Thank you. I took a right wing friend of mine to the woodshed for that crap on FB last night.

188
A hollow voice says, Inpeach...  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:46:07pm

re: #145 Patricia Kayden

Yes I assume investigations are going on. I’m just not seeing them. They don’t appear to be making a splash in the media.

Might have something to do with the fact that Congress isn’t in session this week, too.

189
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:49:29pm

re: #185 Feline Fearless Leader

And remember that most of them consider themselves good proper Christians as well.

Was just about to say this.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

Matthew 7: 21-23

190
Mike Lamb  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:53:33pm

re: #175 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

I’ve been thinking about this aspect of it all. Even if a particular border crossing was, in fact, illegal, it’s a misdemeanor. Wonder if these yahoos would be a bit pissed if they were separated from their kids due to a jaywalking citation?

191
Mike Lamb  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:54:40pm

re: #184 DodgerFan1988

[Embedded content]

Don’t call them “deplorables.”

Can the blue states stop supporting the leeches in the red states?

192
Old Liberal  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:58:23pm

re: #189 Eclectic Cyborg

Was just about to say this.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

Matthew 7: 21-23

Ya know, I’d prefer to do away with these assholes instead of waiting around for some imaginary being to do something in some imaginary place. That’s the problem with fucking christians, they all think god is gonna do something so we don’t have to. Spit.

I’m not aiming that at you eclectic, I’m sick of these people and their goddamn bible shit

193
Jay C  Jun 24, 2019 • 3:59:17pm

re: #187 Eclectic Cyborg

re: #125 KGxvi

for the billionth time:

SEEKING ASYLUM IS NOT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, IT IS COMPLETELY FUCKING LEGAL YOU JACKWADASSHOLEMOTHERFUCKERS!

And unfortunately, for about the billionth time again, it must be noted that the sort of Deplorables who post those lovely “cockroachs” and “leeches” tweets as reproduced above DO NOT FUCKING CARE in the least about the *legal* definitions of asylum-seeking: they just don’t want any of “THEM” in “their” country, and are only too willing to countenance any cruelty or inhumanity that will deter “THEM” from even trying to come here.

194
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:00:38pm

re: #192 Old Liberal

You’re good.

Fact is, Jesus would look at these camps and say “What the fuck is wrong with you people?”.

So many professed Christians don’t know a freaking about the man they have supposedly given their lives too. This country would be a much better place if Christians actually acted like Jesus.

I’m not perfect, but I stay humble. I love openly and treat everyone with respect. I help out with a weekly homeless ministry to keep myself grounded. Some of us do get it right.

195
Old Liberal  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:06:50pm

re: #194 Eclectic Cyborg

You’re good.

Fact is, Jesus would look at these camps and say “What the fuck is wrong with you people?”.

So many professed Christians don’t know a freaking about the man they have supposedly given their lives too. This country would be a much better place if Christians actually acted like Jesus.

In my world, here’s reality. Those kids are dead. There is no afterlife. And the people that killed them? They’ll be dead someday and there is no hell. And the ones that cheer it on? No hell for them either. The only hell these evil fuckers will ever face is the one they should face right here, right now. I wish someone smarter than me could find a handle that people could grab and get out in the streets.

196
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:06:56pm

re: #194 Eclectic Cyborg

You’re good.

Fact is, Jesus would look at these camps and say “What the fuck is wrong with you people?”.

So many professed Christians don’t know a freaking about the man they have supposedly given their lives too. This country would be a much better place if Christians actually acted like Jesus.

Most professed “Christians” are not believers in the message of the New Testament; they are Leviticans. And they only really believe in god smiting those they don’t like, gay, brown, nor ‘merikan, etc. They ignore the rest of the Old Testament bits that they don’t like.

197
Dread Pirate  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:08:25pm
198
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:09:58pm

re: #194 Eclectic Cyborg

You’re good.

Fact is, Jesus would look at these camps and say “What the fuck is wrong with you people?”.

So many professed Christians don’t know a freaking about the man they have supposedly given their lives too. This country would be a much better place if Christians actually acted like Jesus.

many “christians” want jesus to just stay on the cross and keep his mouth shut instead of hanging out with the poor and undesirable and spouting all that hippie shit about loving your enemies and stuff

199
Hecuba's daughter  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:10:56pm

re: #194 Eclectic Cyborg

You’re good.

Fact is, Jesus would look at these camps and say “What the fuck is wrong with you people?”.

So many professed Christians don’t know a freaking about the man they have supposedly given their lives too. This country would be a much better place if Christians actually acted like Jesus.

I don’t think that those who support him care. He has repeatedly shown what he is and they applaud him nonetheless. He’s giving them anti-choice justices and that’s all they need. He bullies those who don’t worship him and they are fine with that. They are the mythical “good” Germans who saw their neighbors rounded up and didn’t care ;
they are the mythical “good” Germans who pretended they didn’t know what was happening at the German run extermination camps. They don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt.

200
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:11:21pm

So I see #CancelStudentDebt is currently the top trend on Twitter.

This is a gimmick of Sanders. That is, when he makes statements like this, about cancelling student debt, it is only to get himself in the news. Because he knows there are many people out there who will gravitate towards it.

But in reality, student debt comes in a variety of forms, and it is not clear to me that the US government can even “cancel” a debt between private individuals (remember, many students have gotten loans from lenders that are not the gov’t) outside of executing bankruptcy in court.

Personally I think the whole you-have-to-go-to-college-so-let-us-lend-you-thousands trap has been just that - a trap to get people who otherwise aren’t really interested in academic study caught into believing they have to do something when their lives may be much better if they didn’t make that choice.

201
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:12:09pm

re: #196 Colère Tueur de Lapin

Most professed “Christians” are not believers in the message of the New Testament; they are Leviticans. And they only really believe in god smiting those they don’t like, gay, brown, nor ‘merikan, etc. They ignore the rest of the Old Testament bits that they don’t like.

i always have fun asking evangelicals exactly how and under what authority they figure out which parts of the old testament need to be obeyed at all cost and which parts can be ignored

202
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:17:12pm

re: #200 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

So I see #CancelStudentDebt is currently the top trend on Twitter.

This is a gimmick of Sanders. That is, when he makes statements like this, about cancelling student debt, it is only to get himself in the news. Because he knows there are many people out there who will gravitate towards it.

But in reality, student debt comes in a variety of forms, and it is not clear to me that the US government can even “cancel” a debt between private individuals (remember, many students have gotten loans from lenders that are not the gov’t) outside of executing bankruptcy in court.

Personally I think the whole you-have-to-go-to-college-so-let-us-lend-you-thousands trap has been just that - a trap to get people who otherwise aren’t really interested in academic study caught into believing they have to do something when their lives may be much better if they didn’t make that choice.

Fun fact: after bankruptcy reform during the Bush Administration, student loan debt is no longer dischargable in bankruptcy.

I suspect most of the student loans they are talking about are the loans that were originally backed by Sallie Mae - of course most of those have since had their servicing rights (literally just the right to collect payments) transferred to private groups, likely because those loans were probably securitized and sold off like mortgages were a decade ago.

What would be interesting is to find out who actually holds the original wet ink signature loan documents. Because without those, you can’t actually collect. Same with mortgages - and I’m still skeptical that MERS actually kept the original hard copies on all those loans back in the day.

203
KGxvi  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:18:00pm

re: #202 KGxvi

Oh, I should add: Sanders isn’t the only one to propose this, Warren (I believe) already had a plan for canceling student loan debt.

204
William Lewis  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:20:23pm

re: #189 Eclectic Cyborg

Amen. Same book, 25:31-46 as well.

205
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:21:43pm

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

206
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:24:39pm

re: #203 KGxvi

I know.

It’s not a good thing, I think.

There’s so much that is being missed by the “cancel” movement.

As I indicated, one of the big ones is why our government is encouraging people to go into debt to begin with, for something they otherwise would not have done.

Don’t get me wrong - I love academia. But I know that even in my day people went to college for essentially three reasons:
(1) maintain social status in their family (esp. Ivy league types);
(2) because the student is actually interested in studying particular subjects (this was my case);
(3) to avoid other social obligations, like the Draft.

IMO, and this is I guess just a personal preference, but I think number 2 above is the only good reason to spend many years of your life in perpetual school.

I fear that far too many young people are going to school past HS only because they feel they have to do so. And I think this is poor, and doing people a disservice.

Secondly, regarding “cancelling” debt, I see that even Sanders is proposing taxing “Wall Street” (a convenient boogeyman here) to pay off debt. But this is not “cancelling”, simply moving the responsibility around.

207
Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:25:12pm

Interesting. I wasn’t familiar with the term “Levitican” though I had a general idea of what it was going to mean. So I stuck the term into Wikipedia. And only got one hit. A page on Gary Botting (a lawyer and scholar in Canada, plus quite a bit more.) And the hit was a reference to one of the novels he wrote.

In his most recent novel Crazy Gran, Botting describes the “Chrislamics”, a hybrid sect that emerges from Islamic and Jehovah’s Witness fundamentalism to reassert Levitican and Sharia Law in the name of “Allajah”. Their prayers for Armageddon seem to be fulfilled with the advent of 9/11.[

208
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:28:51pm

UCCCH

209
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:31:22pm

This may be a bit out there … but I think Sanders and his Berniebots are much more like Trump and the Trumpers than Sanders would like to admit.

Simply this: both Sanders and Trump ply the tool of resentment to get people interested in supporting them.

It’s easy to resent others; it’s sort of a universal human trait.

When a politician tries to get one group to resent another group that is when politics turns into the ugly machinery that gets nations into trouble.

210
Patricia Kayden  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:34:14pm
211
Citizen K  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:34:17pm

re: #184 DodgerFan1988

[Embedded content]

Don’t call them “deplorables.”

The sheer amount of hate in this country just seems too overwhelming to overcome. They hate brown people to our cores and want nothing more than to see us dead. That’s why they want this to happen, they fucking crave the cruelty, the depravity, the death. This is everything they wanted and more. This is why Trump is their god. And it seems so goddamn larger than any of us want to admit.

212
Hecuba's daughter  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:36:32pm

re: #206 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

I know.

It’s not a good thing, I think.

There’s so much that is being missed by the “cancel” movement.

As I indicated, one of the big ones is why our government is encouraging people to go into debt to begin with, for something they otherwise would not have done.

Don’t get me wrong - I love academia. But I know that even in my day people went to college for essentially three reasons:
(1) maintain social status in their family (esp. Ivy league types);
(2) because the student is actually interested in studying particular subjects (this was my case);
(3) to avoid other social obligations, like the Draft.

IMO, and this is I guess just a personal preference, but I think number 2 above is the only good reason to spend many years of your life in perpetual school.

I fear that far too many young people are going to school past HS only because they feel they have to do so. And I think is is poor, and doing people a disservice.
secondly, regarding “cancelling” debt, I see that even Sanders is proposing taxing “Wall Street” (a convenient boogeyman here) to pay off debt. But this is not “cancelling”, simply moving the responsibility around.

Another reason to go to college: to get a well-paying job that will support a family. The problem with school debt these days is that (1) the cost of college has skyrocketed well beyond inflation, even for legitimate schools and (2) for-profit institutions take advantage of students and our loan programs and leave too many without an education but with crushing debt.

213
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:37:32pm

re: #198 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

many “christians” want jesus to just stay on the cross and keep his mouth shut instead of hanging out with the poor and undesirable and spouting all that hippie shit about loving your enemies and stuff

They only have a use for Jesus as a martyr, because you can excuse all sorts of evil and immoral shit in the name of a martyr. And the whole “love and peace” business is seen as a way to get converts into the pews. But they really don’t care much for his actual teachings because it’s hard to justify Crusades and pogroms while preaching “Love thy neighbor.”

214
gocart mozart  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:38:45pm
215
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:39:40pm

re: #212 Hecuba’s daughter

The problem with school debt these days is that (1) the cost of college has skyrocketed well beyond inflation, even for legitimate schools …

Why has the cost of college skyrocketed?

I propose this is why: because as a society we have artificially propped up demand.

And this has led so many schools to believe they can implement this or that (such as rapidly multiplying deanships) without constraint.

216
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:43:49pm

Those who catch my overnight posts know that I on occasion post images from outlandish real estate offerings here in San Diego county.

Well, do you know who has for sale the most expensive single-family residence in the county (as far as I can tell)?

The University of California Regents, that’s who.

Maybe it was bequeathed to them, but if so it was some time ago.

$30M house, from which, btw, the county doesn’t collect property tax.

217
Dread Pirate  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:44:31pm
218
Jebediah, RBG  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:45:03pm

re: #11 BlueGrl21

Somehow, I think the Secret Service will have no problem frog-marching him out the door and shipping his personal items to him later.

That’s what I’m thinking. When he loses the election, he becomes private citizen trump the minute his term ends. He can holler and whine all he wants, but he will have no authority at all. I say, one hint of shenanigan from that fucker and arrest him for trespassing, drag him off to jail and somehow, before bail hearing, oops he got “lost” and can’t be found again till ALL of those kids are found and reunited with their families.

219
Old Liberal  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:46:27pm

re: #215 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Why has the cost of college skyrocketed?

I propose this is why: because as a society we have artificially propped up demand.

And this has led so many schools to believe they can implement this or that (such as rapidly multiplying deanships) without constraint.

One reason is falling State budget support. States have cut their spending on universities dramatically. Another factor is the drive to get higher “ratings”, in which college hire exorbitantly expensive senior professors who do not lecture but spend most of their time doing private contract work. But the rating systems give bonus points for this and just like football rankings they want the fame. When I went to college in the 1970s there were 45,000 full time students on my campus, and tuition was far less. Now they want to reduce the number and charge more.

220
sagehen  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:47:49pm

re: #208 The Vicious Babushka

UCCCH

[Embedded content]

A lot of predators purposely pick the ones they can say that about, specifically so they can say that about her; if they were to assault somebody widely considered “beautiful”, too many people would believe her.

221
Patricia Kayden  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:52:12pm
222
sagehen  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:54:47pm

re: #212 Hecuba’s daughter

Another reason to go to college: to get a well-paying job that will support a family. The problem with school debt these days is that (1) the cost of college has skyrocketed well beyond inflation, even for legitimate schools and (2) for-profit institutions take advantage of students and our loan programs and leave too many without an education but with crushing debt.

When my parents were That Age, everybody in their year who was among the top 20% on grades + entrance exams, the taxpayers would pick up the tab for your undergrad. Dad went to CCNY, Mom went to Hunter, and the tuition for their bachelor’s degrees was $0. For the two of them, combined.

And don’t tell me it has to be a STEM degree to be useful; mom was an art major, with a minor in anthropology, and she got into law school with that.

Before attending law school, she supported dad for his final two years of med school with her art degree; she worked for an ad agency drawing full-page ads for department stores and the five-and-dime (back when Sunday newspapers used to be half advertising).

223
retired cynic  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:55:30pm

re: #221 Patricia Kayden

Raw Story has had some funky stories, hasn’t it? I don’t know who to trust anymore. But I would believe ANYTHING about Barr….

224
Citizen K  Jun 24, 2019 • 4:55:50pm

re: #221 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

This is shit that should be grounds for impeachment, or at least investigation in their own right…but you know, pipe dreams.

225
Patricia Kayden  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:03:11pm

re: #223 retired cynic

Have they? Didn’t know that. Given Trump’s “fake news” attacks, I’m hoping that news outlets are more careful about what they put out there.

226
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:05:02pm

re: #215 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Why has the cost of college skyrocketed?

I propose this is why: because as a society we have artificially propped up demand.

And this has led so many schools to believe they can implement this or that (such as rapidly multiplying deanships) without constraint.

When I graduated from UT Dallas in 2005, the president told that the state paid $12 for every dollar paid by students when he graduated in the late 70s. By my time is was down to something like less than 20c.

227
William Lewis  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:05:23pm

Interesting! A major knitting web site has prohibited support of Trump and White Supremacists

npr.org

Hint hint Twitter

228
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:07:11pm

re: #225 Patricia Kayden

Have they? Didn’t know that. Given Trump’s “fake news” attacks, I’m hoping that news outlets are more careful about what they put out there.

I stopped reading Rawstory. First they would not allow me to read their site unless I disabled my ad blocker. OK I disabled the ad blocker to read the article but then I got spammed with so much crap that the article was unreadable. Fuck Rawstory. Also they used to send out C&D orders to other sites that linked to articles on Rawstory that were copied from other sites.

229
MsJ  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:09:56pm

re: #171 Amory Blaine

White House moves to bar counselor Kellyanne Conway from testifying to Congress about alleged violations of Hatch Act

I wonder what Georgie Conway had to say about this.

(No, not really… rhetorical question. Dude is scamming everyone)

230
Stanley Sea  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:13:45pm

re: #216 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Link!

231
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:14:50pm

re: #226 Belafon

When I graduated from UT Dallas in 2005, the president told that the state paid $12 for every dollar paid by students when he graduated in the late 70s. By my time is was down to something like less than 20c.

And there is a reason for this.

It used to be only a small fraction of society went to college. So a state could fund this bit of extra education for its 5% of young people or so.

But if you want 50% or more (some want all) of young people to go to college for 4 years, then that is a burden much much larger than 5%-10% of said young population.

232
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:14:55pm

Fuck you Shmuley, YOU are the New Low. You owe AOC the apology.

233
PhillyPretzel  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:15:52pm

OT Update on iPad case return. I have decided to return said case via the amazon hub. They only have 2 hubs in Philly and one is in an area I know very well. I will be on the University of Penn campus to return that case. I hope they can print out the mailing label and put it in an envelope and mail it back to amazon.

234
MsJ  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:19:44pm

re: #210 Patricia Kayden

235
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:22:06pm

re: #230 Stanley Sea

Link!

$39M buys you this:

nGWMS0pKQKC5SMLI7sMAeLSMQ/+ftV5/TAFd8gP2bC0r0Jkct+aci+pBuk8s0VqTtvGoVI3wBzAW5x81JQ7h2lQrMDZyba6DbLqU1SptsuH3kcUGu19/u+ZqD9n4eaRna58piW/4iI6bFYEOCf4QDPFVevbfl2HO5fualKXrCZsgvOR64+EnVa6i82BoF/DqPAYwvRZFu3b71C5bohx9nA==

236
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:26:04pm
237
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:28:30pm

re: #233 PhillyPretzel

You can also use Kohl’s to return Amazon purchases…

238
PhillyPretzel  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:29:09pm

re: #237 Eric The Fruit Bat

Thanks for the info. :)

239
BlueGrl21  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:30:27pm

re: #213 Targetpractice

They only have a use for Jesus as a martyr, because you can excuse all sorts of evil and immoral shit in the name of a martyr. And the whole “love and peace” business is seen as a way to get converts into the pews. But they really don’t care much for his actual teachings because it’s hard to justify Crusades and pogroms while preaching “Love thy neighbor.”

Got people a bit stirred up on an Episcopalian website I frequent because I said too many Christians would prefer Jesus bleeding on a cross or dead in their Bible than alive and walking among us, pissed off.

240
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:31:37pm

THREAD

241
Patricia Kayden  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:33:25pm

re: #228 The Vicious Babushka

That’s a mess. I’ll be careful about linking to them in the future.

242
Patricia Kayden  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:35:48pm

re: #240 The Vicious Babushka

243
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:36:24pm
244
BigPapa  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:37:52pm

re: #235 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

mTilFFp80BMqLQblfQvY47vgjIk13Vj+9Fsjeyw4fxZu/zXeKxLmINEJwR25G4+345Nb/oi7aIYvQCdRLzMWLNyuH43tCv8C6yvhKwbBiaOGk3Q4xF0wMEuIE8BQI230N4Jpy8Z0vCvc7ByWd4MkKLtoFlKF5/apxguRGl/+wP0IYXOr+islLnd3fmgJEuH4BxgKXX2faBtuPHmEYTpOMSAUzvFzTMxVjR6s23AzQbz13vcUXTeeGBm/5RYUheNw14JuvvDj2vJG2r2sb/OKNM1hYwhHO9BD4qmStmk3WLS3kb1IHH22kk7HMlGdZ1yLNi0RjpHu6JNvAlN/t+4ZQBFrAr4qZ0QX13ROGDk/1PG67SKGuewX/H/Z+1i2akHrPmqy12qPmsE7ZJzMRUqEFMPgdBg7LL9qHA8nzPFmrf8=

245
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:39:53pm
246
BigPapa  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:41:37pm

re: #244 BigPapa

+Gl76/PUK1qbPY5/NrIe6RnU2gfOXwWreQoK1OVrZDKL+EBAkGbhmVl7zkYsS+Ez2b5LmFOKiVswqhCmGykQcA==

247
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:41:53pm

re: #244 BigPapa

I’ve spend many hours in 2, 5, 10, 15
A little time in 6, 8, and 13 - 8 was a lawsuit where the owner sued the builder, I was an expert witness.

Are those numbers referring to how zillow pops up houses on your webpage? (Note Zillow will put up lists based on your interests.)

248
teleskiguy  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:42:27pm

I wish I could go to all the Umphrey’s McGee shows.

249
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:42:59pm

re: #242 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

That’s a good one

Clear and concise

250
Patricia Kayden  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:44:53pm

re: #243 The Vicious Babushka

Even if she misspoke, where is the outrage over what is happening to these children NOW? Her faux pas isn’t a diversion from the suffering of migrant children. I watched a few minutes of Bill Maher’s show and he is more outraged about AOC’s comments than what the kids are actually going through. Dan Savage and Thom Hartman pushed back but it was infuriating to watch.

251
BigPapa  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:45:46pm

re: #247 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Sorry, forgot to hyperlink. Check it now. Has nothing to do with Zillow.

252
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:48:16pm

re: #251 BigPapa

Ok…

yzcWKzo3UTzWbGbUJoYf2wym5Bug0+lgRbkGmr0KbbqxQHkq5sx9s/OBcYT2q7fE2Eafq0QbEpAtLW5Xx5z5Wfu/rvSVaYW05ufN3VpQZeoQF97wMm3xyJz66utS1NAQgwaHPIm/4iQhAHmciYZxsC3ZUOKZvQRiaFkUzdiNn/q4jAUMC5RGix+0J5rJMoeGxUa88RrXcJsnZ2/o8NCFExNiU2A1ERxv

253
gocart mozart  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:49:42pm
254
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:50:14pm
255
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:50:22pm

re: #195 Old Liberal

In my world, here’s reality. Those kids are dead. There is no afterlife. And the people that killed them? They’ll be dead someday and there is no hell. And the ones that cheer it on? No hell for them either. The only hell these evil fuckers will ever face is the one they should face right here, right now. I wish someone smarter than me could find a handle that people could grab and get out in the streets.

Well, I don’t feel entirely alone in espousing that position then.

Some churches are finally starting to stand up for what they profess to believe.

From Pulpits Across America, Sermons Condemn Separation of Immigrant Families (goes to the Washington Post)

We asked religious leaders: How are you talking to your congregations about the separation of immigrant parents from their children on the U.S.-Mexico border?

Dozens told us about the sermons they delivered in their churches on Sunday, and at their synagogues this Shabbat. Many said they typically avoid politics in their preaching, but this week they felt compelled to speak out.

Here is a selection of their responses, ranging across the country and many denominations.

(more)

In the meantime, Five Dollar Feminist unleashes the same sort of argument with the government’s lawyer who argued soap and sleep are not enumerated in the Flores decision and therefore the government does not have to provide them.

What Part of Never Again Do We Not Understand? (goes to Wonkette):

One day, God willing, my grandchildren will click open their history textbooks and read about the Central American migrant internment camps. They’ll learn about sick kids, locked in cages, kept hungry and dirty and cold for weeks on end, and they’ll be horrified.

“Bubbie,” they’ll say, “how could this happen in America? How could there be toddlers sleeping on the ground without blankets, without soap or toothbrushes to clean themselves?”

“I don’t know. I wish I had done more. I’m ashamed,” I’ll say. We will all have to answer for this atrocity. But some of us will have to answer more than others. Not just the archvillains like Stephen Miller and John Kelly, but the people who kept right on doing their jobs, even as those jobs morphed into defending concentration camps.

So, no, I don’t feel sorry for Sarah Fabian. Decades from now, people will still be watching this video of her arguing that “safe and sanitary conditions” doesn’t include soap or toothbrushes or beds or warmth or lights out for bedtime. This should follow her for the rest of her life.

(more)

256
gocart mozart  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:50:56pm
257
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:51:39pm

“Kinderlager Drumpf”. It sounds better in the original.

258
Patricia Kayden  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:52:49pm
259
gocart mozart  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:53:18pm
260
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:53:23pm

re: #254 The Vicious Babushka

This is the original tweet:

261
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:55:46pm

It does sound like a particularly bad idea, if TheHill is reporting it accurately.

262
A Mom Anon  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:57:07pm

re: #248 teleskiguy

I feel the same way about Foo Fighters. Same with Soundgarden back in the day.

263
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 5:59:31pm

Beto is popular for obvious reasons (he’s a good looking male, can speak well, etc.) And overall he’d be light years ahead of Trump in regards to the Presidency.

Yet there are two things that still bother me about him: 1) he’s getting the not-a-brown-person benefit of the doubt, and 2) he does play into the idea of warfare as a glorious thing.

The latter is ancient and part of the American experience so it is hardly unique to Beto. Yet for all his supposed progressiveness (yeah, I know, “true” progressives point out that Beto is not really one of them) he seems to fail so spectacularly at self-recognition of the role of the violent-male in his own success.

264
Dread Pirate  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:01:20pm
265
A Mom Anon  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:01:36pm

Evening Lizards. Hugs available for anyone who wants one.

266
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:01:52pm

re: #264 Dread Pirate

So they moved it back three hours?

267
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:02:44pm
268
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:04:01pm

The USA was built on military conquest and genocide.

Yes, I know there are Americans who want to deny that, and others who accept it but don’t want to talk about it.

But Beto’s desire to make the military extra special citizens is just one in a long line of making sure the warrior gets special rewards.

Because those in power want to keep the warriors on their side.

269
wrenchwench  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:04:25pm

re: #265 A Mom Anon

Evening Lizards. Hugs available for anyone who wants one.

Two, please.

270
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:04:55pm

re: #267 The Vicious Babushka

Khomeini, Khamenei, lets call the whole thing off.

271
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:07:03pm

re: #268 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

The USA was built on military conquest and genocide.

Yes, I know there are Americans who want to deny that, and others who accept it but don’t want to talk about it.

But Beto’s desire to make the military extra special citizens is just one in a long line of making sure the warrior gets special rewards.

Because those in power want to keep the warriors on their side.

The whole purpose was to troll the elite who neither pay nor serve. Our Preschool Candidates are sometimes too clever by half.

272
mmmirele  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:10:40pm

This guy, James R. White, calls himself an apologist and engages scholars in debates. He has a mail order PhD from a fake seminary in Washington state. He also just signed on as a pastor/elder at Apologia Church, the cult I picket on Sundays.

Well, he’s also a stone racist, as you will see. I can’t respond to him directly because he has me blocked, but I’m tired of his nonsense. In addition to calling out the church for teaching children that women who get abortions should be executed, I’m going to call this church and its leadership out for their racism. Thread…

Don’t want to be called a racist, don’t call a guy who is completely ignorant of the history of black people in America and whose first instinct is to go to “bad ethics” as a pastor/elder.

273
DangerMan  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:11:25pm

re: #267 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Presidents a twit

274
A Mom Anon  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:11:26pm

re: #269 wrenchwench

You got it! (Squish, squeezes…🤗)

275
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:14:30pm

re: #261 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

It does sound like a particularly bad idea, if TheHill is reporting it accurately.

War taxes in the past have been levied against the ultra-wealthy.

Levying it against anyone who is not in the military or has no family members in the military is a stunningly bad idea.

[former Navy Recruiter hat on]

Many people cannot serve in the military at all, for a multitude of reasons. (Sorry, you have a felony on your record so we can’t accept you. By the way, because you have a felony we’re going to levy a tax on you—not a real good recruiting tool.)

Many people do not have family members.

Many people serve the national interest in other ways which are critical to a war which does not involve taking up arms. (You’re working for the Red Cross supporting the troops? Kewl, here’s your tax bill.)

&c [/Recruiter hat]

276
Charles Johnson  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:15:07pm
277
teleskiguy  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:17:14pm

re: #262 A Mom Anon

I got stats!

278
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:17:36pm

re: #276 Charles Johnson

CNN of late has been hauling out the Democrats-who-voted-for-Trump folk, as if that means we should listen to them or something.

Any self-declared Democrat who voted for Trump is not worth the listen.

279
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:17:54pm

re: #276 Charles Johnson

If you bought that car from Hunter Thompson, it wasn’t spiders he left in the ductwork.

280
steve_davis  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:18:53pm

re: #7 NO SMOCKING GUN!

[Embedded content]

that would be an attempted coup, which would fail miserably. the new president will be sworn in and trump will be gone. we aren’t really in that much danger of despotism just yet. Even the Romans needed roughly 60 years of civil wars before they allowed a dictator.

281
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:20:37pm

re: #265 A Mom Anon

Evening Lizards. Hugs available for anyone who wants one.

[[[Mom]]]

282
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:21:55pm

re: #280 steve_davis

that would be an attempted coup, which would fail miserably. the new president will be sworn in and trump will be gone. we aren’t really in that much danger of despotism just yet. Even the Romans needed roughly 60 years of civil wars before they allowed a dictator.

They didn’t have broadband for their Liber Faciērum.

283
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:24:19pm

re: #278 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

CNN of late has been hauling out the Democrats-who-voted-for-Trump folk, as if that means we should listen to them or something.

Any self-declared Democrat who voted for Trump is not worth the listen.

The press isn’t going to give up Cletus Safaris, are they?

Hey CNN, how ‘bout coming out here to “Trump country” and interviewing Democrats who voted for the person who got the most votes?

I noted this here once before, but a reporter from the Philadelphia Inquirer put up a social media post asking if he should interview more Trump voters from further afield than the paper’s circulation area.

I wrote back in E-mail asking him if he’d come out to “Trump country” and interview people like me, who voted for the popular vote winner.

He wrote back to me telling me to never contact him again.

284
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:28:07pm

re: #282 Decatur Deb

They didn’t have broadband for their Liber Faciērum.

Everything is faster in the 21st century.

However, in regards to Trump, while the Trumpers will stick with him to the bitter end, is Trump gaining any new followers?

I don’t seem to find very many young people, who are not already part of the Young Republicans gimmick, or who are not otherwise faces for a front of religious-right groups, showing up in Trumper timelines or in support of Trump.

To hopefully the disappointment of the usual actors, young people are just not drawn to Trump. I gather that most Americans under 30 are rather put off by Trump.

285
steve_davis  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:28:58pm

re: #25 Semper Fi

I think Trump would take the position that an overwhelming loss is impossible because he is “loved” so much and therefor the count is a lie.

he can believe whatever he wants. there are plenty of folks staring at blank walls in asylums who think they are jesus or napoleon. Only two of them can be right, and Trump ain’t one of them.

286
William Lewis  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:31:51pm

re: #239 BlueGrl21

Got people a bit stirred up on an Episcopalian website I frequent because I said too many Christians would prefer Jesus bleeding on a cross or dead in their Bible than alive and walking among us, pissed off.

Its true. I also push the idea that actions are more important than beliefs. That gets the Paulines riled up ;)

287
stpaulbear  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:31:53pm

re: #280 steve_davis

that would be an attempted coup, which would fail miserably. the new president will be sworn in and trump will be gone. we aren’t really in that much danger of despotism just yet. Even the Romans needed roughly 60 years of civil wars before they allowed a dictator.

Trump will go back to talking about what a dump the white house is, while he sets himself up a gold plated throne room where his worshipers can come and adore him. He’ll start a cable network (what he was planning on doing after he lost to Hillary). He’s going to wind up a perma-scowling Liberace without the talent and without the charm. Melania will be filing for divorce before they even leave the white house

288
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:32:52pm

re: #284 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Everything is faster in the 21st century.

Not around here it isn’t. We’re still working on getting stores to accept credit cards. We do have 911 emergency dial service though (since 2013).

However, in regards to Trump, while the Trumpers will stick with him to the bitter end, is Trump gaining any new followers?

The press is really working hard on normalising the “Nazi who lives next door and is just like you” (looking at you, New York Times).

I don’t seem to find very many young people, who are not already part of the Young Republicans gimmick, or who are not otherwise faces for a front of religious-right groups, showing up in Trumper timelines or in support of Trump.

To hopefully the disappointment of the usual actors, young people are just not drawn to Trump. I gather that most Americans under 30 are rather put off by Trump.

Now they need to get out and vote. The age block 18-29 typically has the lowest turnout.

289
A Mom Anon  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:32:55pm

re: #277 teleskiguy

Lol. This is awesome!

290
stpaulbear  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:33:23pm

re: #283 Anymouse 🌹

The press isn’t going to give up Cletus Safaris, are they?

Hey CNN, how ‘bout coming out here to “Trump country” and interviewing Democrats who voted for the person who got the most votes?

I noted this here once before, but a reporter from the Philadelphia Inquirer put up a social media post asking if he should interview more Trump voters from further afield than the paper’s circulation area.

I wrote back in E-mail asking him if he’d come out to “Trump country” and interview people like me, who voted for the popular vote winner.

He wrote back to me telling me to never contact him again.

What a bunt.

291
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:37:37pm

The VA called. They want me to get a pregnancy test. My wife noted afterwards, “I didn’t know I was Geyh Married.”

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

292
teleskiguy  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:38:25pm

re: #289 A Mom Anon

Umphrey’s McGee is the perfect rock ‘n’ roll band for nerds.

293
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:41:26pm

RATIOED TWEET OF THE DAY

294
A Mom Anon  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:41:31pm

re: #292 teleskiguy

I love all the positive things that come from music. It heals so much in so many. Glad you had a blast at Red Rocks. It’s kinda hard not to have fun there.

295
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:41:54pm

re: #284 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus


To hopefully the disappointment of the usual actors, young people are just not drawn to Trump. I gather that most Americans under 30 are rather put off by Trump.

Then all we have to do is shape them into a vanguard that will turn out and vote coherently. Easy Peasy.

296
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:44:29pm

Kevin M. Kruse pwns Dipshit D’Stupids for like the eleventy bazillionth time today.

297
teleskiguy  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:48:12pm

re: #294 A Mom Anon

Glad you had a blast at Red Rocks. It’s kinda hard not to have fun there.

Got wet Friday and Saturday. Got hailed on for a couple minutes on Friday, that was gnarly! First bad weather I’ve had to deal with at Red Rocks in years, and it was especially bad on Friday.

Nonetheless, too much fun was had.

298
A Mom Anon  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:49:44pm

re: #296 The Vicious Babushka

He just cannot help himself…it would be sad if it weren’t so fucking mundanely evil.

299
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:52:38pm

Somehow the message is clearer now.

300
gocart mozart  Jun 24, 2019 • 6:52:57pm
301
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:04:15pm

re: #300 gocart mozart

302
DodgerFan1988  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:10:42pm
303
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:15:48pm

re: #293 The Vicious Babushka

RATIOED TWEET OF THE DAY

Notice how Republican politicians put stuff out there like this (or Rubio with his Bible verses) and never engage the responses (even when they are positive)?

For the most part, Democratic politicians do engage those who respond (and conservative voters bitch “get off Twitter and do your job”).

304
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:17:35pm

re: #302 DodgerFan1988

305
Renaissance_Man  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:20:26pm

re: #284 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Everything is faster in the 21st century.

However, in regards to Trump, while the Trumpers will stick with him to the bitter end, is Trump gaining any new followers?

I don’t seem to find very many young people, who are not already part of the Young Republicans gimmick, or who are not otherwise faces for a front of religious-right groups, showing up in Trumper timelines or in support of Trump.

To hopefully the disappointment of the usual actors, young people are just not drawn to Trump. I gather that most Americans under 30 are rather put off by Trump.

On the contrary, I think lots of young people are drawn to Trumpism in general.

Trumpism is the mentality of a 5th grade bully writ large. White teenage males in particular love the idea of being able to say and do anything they like with no consequences, because the idea of getting in trouble and apologising for anything is alien to them. Schoolkids bullying each other by chanting ‘Trump’, for instance, is exactly the mentality that appeals. A compliant media culture that encourages feeling no shame for acting in this manner makes it very appealing. I think we will see that young people, especially white young people but also across other races, will find Trumpism a very natural fit.

306
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:21:19pm

re: #295 Decatur Deb

Then all we have to do is shape them into a vanguard that will turn out and vote coherently. Easy Peasy.

They overperformed in 2018. Let’s keep encouraging them.

307
A Mom Anon  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:22:48pm

re: #304 Belafon

Every fucking one of these “businesses” making money off torturing children and their families needs to be dismantled, stripped of assets and every fucking person who approved this and went along with it needs to be sentenced to life in their own hellholes. There needs to be justice. Beginning ages ago.

308
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:23:16pm

re: #305 Renaissance_Man

On the contrary, I think lots of young people are drawn to Trumpism in general.

Trumpism is the mentality of a 5th grade bully writ large. White teenage males in particular love the idea of being able to say and do anything they like with no consequences, because the idea of getting in trouble and apologising for anything is alien to them. Schoolkids bullying each other by chanting ‘Trump’, for instance, is exactly the mentality that appeals. A compliant media culture that encourages feeling no shame for acting in this manner makes it very appealing. I think we will see that young people, especially white young people but also across other races, will find Trumpism a very natural fit.

I work at a company where most of the people over 35 are conservatives (probably > 80%). The ones I work near under 30, about 10 of them, either obviously don’t like Trump or don’t like policies the GOP supports. The friends of my oldest two almost all voted Democratic.

309
teleskiguy  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:26:17pm

Today on my drive back from Denver I took a scenic route to see how much snow is still on the high peaks.

310
Renaissance_Man  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:27:15pm

re: #308 Belafon

I work at a company where most of the people over 35 are conservatives (probably > 80%). The ones I work near under 30, about 10 of them, either obviously don’t like Trump or don’t like policies the GOP supports. The friends of my oldest two almost all voted Democratic.

I don’t mean to suggest that young people will go Republican as a bloc. They will still largely vote blue where they vote at all. But I don’t think there will be increased turnout among the young, nor will there be a significant change in the percentage that vote blue. It’ll be about the same as it usually is.

311
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:34:03pm

re: #212 Hecuba’s daughter

Another reason to go to college: to get a well-paying job that will support a family. The problem with school debt these days is that (1) the cost of college has skyrocketed well beyond inflation, even for legitimate schools and (2) for-profit institutions take advantage of students and our loan programs and leave too many without an education but with crushing debt.

Back in Reagan’s day and I was in the Navy, Ronald Reagan decried how terrible it was that some enlisted people were paid so poorly they were eligible for food stamps. He called it a national disgrace.

He then made it illegal for active duty personnel to collect food stamps.

312
Charles Johnson  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:36:52pm
313
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:39:21pm

Voting by age 2018


From pewresearch.org.
Turnout by age

From electproject.org

Take that delta at the top and apply it to the percentage of young people.

314
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:44:22pm

re: #231 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

And there is a reason for this.

It used to be only a small fraction of society went to college. So a state could fund this bit of extra education for its 5% of young people or so.

But if you want 50% or more (some want all) of young people to go to college for 4 years, then that is a burden much much larger than 5%-10% of said young population.

Even back in the Seventies, conservatives were undermining budgets for education and complaining about “Marxist” professors.

There’s more to it than taxes. Conservatives are anti-education (except for the rich) and always have been.

When you’ve been poor all your life conservatism in all its glory comes into sharp focus.

The only reason my mother got to go to college was because my father had to get killed on active duty first.

315
Dread Pirate  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:55:44pm

How Verizon and a BGP Optimizer Knocked Large Parts of the Internet Offline Today

Today at 10:30UTC, the Internet had a small heart attack. A small company in Northern Pennsylvania became a preferred path of many Internet routes through Verizon (AS701), a major Internet transit provider. This was the equivalent of Waze routing an entire freeway down a neighborhood street — resulting in many websites on Cloudflare, and many other providers, to be unavailable from large parts of the Internet. This should never have happened because Verizon should never have forwarded those routes to the rest of the Internet. To understand why, read on.

316
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:57:19pm

Ravelry fans today:
Image: giphy.gif

317
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:57:30pm

re: #314 Anymouse 🌹

Even back in the Seventies, conservatives were undermining budgets for education and complaining about “Marxist” professors.

Yes, but that is not the ultimate cause of the inability of states to pay college costs out of general revenue. The problem, even here in California where being a “marxist” is not totally anathema, the problem with everyone going to college is that it meant expanding the system significantly. And that costs money.

There is a salvation-by-education belief among many leftists. I think this has many causes, but I find that it is still a fallacy in the end. Education can provide one with important skills and, if the individual is so inclined characterologically, a way to think about the world.

But I find so much in life which can be done without forcing someone to sit through endless hours of required college classes (of subjects the student could not care less). One can, if trained by a good primary and secondary school system, accomplish quite a bit in life with only 12 years of formal education ( and yes, I realize many people live in areas where they are poorly served by their teachers and schools.)

Yet our society is set up to value its own belief system, and our society believes in credentials for credentials sake.

318
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Jun 24, 2019 • 7:58:27pm

re: #261 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

re: #275 Anymouse 🌹

A war tax on the very wealthy does seem like an excellent idea. Since we are always at war these days, it would be more or less permanent.
“Sir, we see that your bonus from the pharma gang you work for would pay for a dozen cruise missiles. We only need two from you. Pay up.”

I think a “welfare tax” on the same fatcats might be better though. This would be specifically designated to pay benefits for people who work in private business but still cannot make ends meet. Cheap labor must cease to be profitable.

319
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:03:18pm

re: #318 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

A war tax on the very wealthy does seem like an excellent idea.

A few months ago I got in an argument with someone on twitter, who was championing Norway and that Norway had less taxes than the US, so we ought to have less taxes here.

He didn’t believe that Norway had a progressive income tax, so I tried to show him that is true, that there is a progressive increase in Norway for taxes paid by the rich.

And Norway has something else - a flat wealth tax. Not another tax on income (or the dodgy “capital gains” idea.) Just straight out 1% per year on your net wealth. This helps, among other things, provide a way for someone who inherits a lot of money to not avoid supporting their own society.

If we implemented a 1% wealth tax, per year, on all Americans whose net value was say in the top 10% of our society, this might go a long ways to helping reign in our out of control debt.

320
A Mom Anon  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:06:10pm

re: #317 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Today I found a library assistant job I wanted to apply for. It was part time, starting pay of 12.31 an hour and I was a perfect fit for the job til they threw in at the end I needed a 4 yr degree. To shelve books, help people find stuff, help them with computer basics etc. all of which I can do, I even understand the Dewey Decimal System. I’m also almost 60 and being a Mom for 25 yrs means jack shit nothing. Before that I had a couple decades in retail. Why do I need a degree for this? It’s just stupid.

321
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:07:44pm

re: #320 A Mom Anon

Why do I need a degree for this? It’s just stupid.

Because our society wants to believe it’s own belief system.

322
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:08:04pm

re: #213 Targetpractice

They only have a use for Jesus as a martyr, because you can excuse all sorts of evil and immoral shit in the name of a martyr. And the whole “love and peace” business is seen as a way to get converts into the pews. But they really don’t care much for his actual teachings because it’s hard to justify Crusades and pogroms while preaching “Love thy neighbor.”

The majority of churches are run by Pulpit Pimps who are only in it to fleece the flock and live the tax-exempt preacher lifestyle.

323
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:10:34pm

re: #259 gocart mozart

324
I Would Prefer Not To  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:12:54pm

re: #320 A Mom Anon

Today I found a library assistant job I wanted to apply for. It was part time, starting pay of 12.31 an hour and I was a perfect fit for the job til they threw in at the end I needed a 4 yr degree. To shelve books, help people find stuff, help them with computer basics etc. all of which I can do, I even understand the Dewey Decimal System. I’m also almost 60 and beinIt’g a Mom for 25 yrs means jack shit nothing. Before that I had a couple decades in retail. Why do I need a degree for this? It’s just stupid.

it is stupid. I would be tempted to put a degree on my resume. No one checks back that long. I’m your age and the system is begging people to fudge, but maybe that’s just me.

325
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:13:13pm

re: #317 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Yes, but that is not the ultimate cause of the inability of states to pay college costs out of general revenue. The problem, even here in California where being a “marxist” is not totally anathema, the problem with everyone going to college is that it meant expanding the system significantly. And that costs money.

There is a salvation-by-education belief among many leftists. I think this has many causes, but I find that it is still a fallacy in the end. Education can provide one with important skills and, if the individual is so inclined characterologically, a way to think about the world.

But I find so much in life which can be done without forcing someone to sit through endless hours of required college classes (of subjects the student could not care less). One can, if trained by a good primary and secondary school system, accomplish quite a bit in life with only 12 years of formal education ( and yes, I realize many people live in areas where they are poorly served by their teachers and schools.)

Yet our society is set up to value its own belief system, and our society believes in credentials for credentials sake.

Education is the very thing that lifted society out of the Dark Ages. The largest education programme in the history of the USA was the GI Bill, which sent millions of people to college and technical schools, and the first chance conservatives had, they killed that programme. (The benefits programme I had was called VEAP, which you had to pay about 1/3 into it to get a maximum of $8,100 out of. Needless to say, VEAP was worthless.)

The only time conservatives were interested in education was when the USSR lobbed Sputnik 1 overhead, and they realised that we were behind on technology. Conservatives funded engineering, math, and science for the purposes of military power.

Once that was done, so was their interest in education.

There’s a reason Trump said he loves the poorly educated.

Belafon noted it with the breakdown of Pew Research’s exit polling. Look who the poorly educated vote for by a large percentage.

re: #313 Belafon

Conservatives have always opposed public education in this nation. Always. Public schools interfere with religious schools.

A relevant history of public education:
publicschoolreview.com

326
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:15:19pm

re: #293 The Vicious Babushka

RATIOED TWEET OF THE DAY

[Embedded content]

Yeah the same Phony Joni that wants to take our health care away from us.

327
I Would Prefer Not To  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:15:53pm

trump has increased the sales of at least one business in my neighborhood. My weed dealer.

Night people.

328
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:16:10pm

re: #325 Anymouse 🌹

Trump plays on the resentment of old white people who resent that younger people have more than them.

I know, they show up in the Facebook timeline. All the tropes and stereotypes of Trumpers.

Still, I maintain that the education that lifted society was the expansion of literacy and numeracy, and this occurred not by forcing 20 year olds to sit in required classes about which they care not one whit, but by providing public education for the first 16 years or so of a child’s life.

329
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:17:06pm

The launch tonight was pushed back by a few hours, and the SpaceX website hasn’t changed its text, but it can be watched live here:

spacex.com

330
Dread Pirate  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:19:31pm

How do you solve a problem like Donald?
How do you catch a crook and pin him down?
How do you find a word that means Donald?
A flibbertijibbet! A narcissistic, pussy-grabbing clown!

/apologies to The Sound of Music

331
gocart mozart  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:19:40pm
332
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:25:50pm

re: #328 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Trump plays on the resentment of old white people who resent that younger people have more than them.

I know, they show up in the Facebook timeline. All the tropes and stereotypes of Trumpers.

Still, I maintain that the education that lifted society was the expansion of literacy and numeracy, and this occurred not by forcing 20 year olds to sit in required classes about which they care not one whit, but by providing public education for the first 16 years or so of a child’s life.

I’ll happily trade my position for someone who has a college degree and a job if they wish.

333
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:28:51pm

re: #325 Anymouse 🌹

Well, except the part where the US basically invented modern public education so people could red the Bible.

334
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:34:30pm

re: #333 Belafon

Well, except the part where the US basically invented modern public education so people could red the Bible.

There was that. As the article notes, Thomas Jefferson advocated for a nationwide public education system financed by the federal government (sort of the Common Core of its day), and he was opposed. That opposition lasted for over one hundred years.

That article notes that localities were stuck raising their own schools and trying to hire teachers (usually single women who had completed high school) to run one-room schools. [Fun fact, we still have one room schools here.]

High school is nice, but it didn’t get us to the Moon. It doesn’t advance medical or computer science. Our entire society depends on that college education to tackle every problem from social issues to climate change.

Technical schools and apprenticeship are also necessary for any functional society today, and conservatives have been cutting support for those all my life as well.

335
retired cynic  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:36:43pm

re: #334 Anymouse 🌹

My husband rode his pony to a one room school in rural Missouri. He loved it.

336
plansbandc  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:38:40pm

re: #309 teleskiguy

That’s a pretty pass. We drove over it a couple of summers ago. Used to go fishing at Clear Lake when I was little. Spent most summer weekends in Georgetown.

337
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:39:35pm

re: #334 Anymouse 🌹

High school is nice, but it didn’t get us to the Moon. It doesn’t advance medical or computer science. Our entire society depends on that college education to tackle every problem from social issues to climate change.

Well, first I will point out that many people who labored on the Apollo project had just that, a HS diploma.

But more fundamentally, the need for engineers and scientists does not scale with population.

If it takes 100 engineers to design an automobile, it still takes that 100 people whether the company makes 100,000 autos or a million autos. The only increased requirement for engineering has to do with facilities, and that means just a few civil/construction engineers.

Mostly life does not consist of cutting edge knowledge.

The part of life where we need a large quantity of people with many years of post-high school education is in medicine, because the requirement for doctors does indeed scale with population.

338
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:40:13pm

As the United Negro College Fund put it in their Seventies television adverts:

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

If conservatives really believed in a meritocracy system, they would ensure that the poor could attend schools beyond high school if they can meet the educational requirements.

Having undermined universities to the point only the very wealthy can attend college and the poor are left with lifelong debt, they are now doing the same to high schools and elementary schools (school vouchers, charter schools, &c).

339
Hecuba's daughter  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:40:33pm

re: #320 A Mom Anon

Today I found a library assistant job I wanted to apply for. It was part time, starting pay of 12.31 an hour and I was a perfect fit for the job til they threw in at the end I needed a 4 yr degree. To shelve books, help people find stuff, help them with computer basics etc. all of which I can do, I even understand the Dewey Decimal System. I’m also almost 60 and being a Mom for 25 yrs means jack shit nothing. Before that I had a couple decades in retail. Why do I need a degree for this? It’s just stupid.

Here in the Chicago suburbs, a friend worked as a part time assistant in a local library for decades and never went to college. Why not apply anyway and tout your real world credentials?

340
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:44:08pm

*snort*

Government meeting opens with ‘Hail Satan’ prayer

SOLDOTNA, Alaska — A Satanic Temple member who won the right to open a regional Alaska government meeting declared “Hail Satan” during her first invocation, prompting about a dozen officials and attendees to walk out.

Tuesday’s invocation that started the meeting of the Kenai Peninsula Borough also spurred a protest outside the southern Alaska borough’s administration building that drew 40 people, The Peninsula Clarion newspaper reported .

Protesters held signs saying “reject Satan and his works” and “know Jesus and his love.”

If they really wanted to reject Satan and his works, they would vote Democrat.

341
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:44:23pm

re: #337 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

(rest cut)
The part of life where we need a large quantity of people with many years of post-high school education is in medicine, because the requirement for doctors does indeed scale with population.

Medicine, education, law, dentistry, architecture, mortuary science, civil engineering, I can think of a whole lot of college programmes which “scale to the population.”

And I’ve repeatedly mentioned technical and apprenticeship as well (which have also been cut for decades).

342
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:48:27pm

re: #339 Hecuba’s daughter

Here in the Chicago suburbs, a friend worked as a part time assistant in a local library for decades and never went to college. Why not apply anyway and tout your real world credentials?

Libraries in large cities require college for licensing if you want to be a library director rather than a part-time assistant. That is true in every state.

In my own state, the requirements for a library director range from high school (for a village under a thousand) to a post graduate degree (for a university library or major cities such as Omaha and Lincoln).

The library commission here notes my wife is far overqualified for our library.

343
Hecuba's daughter  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:49:57pm

re: #313 Belafon

[Embedded content]

From electproject.org

Take that delta at the top and apply it to the percentage of young people.

I bet if the tables included a split by gender it would show that college educated white males went overwhelmingly for the GOP.

344
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:51:33pm
345
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:52:52pm

346
Deep State SuperElite Satinist  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:53:24pm

re: #320 A Mom Anon

You should apply anyway; the worst that could happen is you don’t get the job.

347
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 24, 2019 • 8:55:28pm

re: #341 Anymouse 🌹

Medicine, education, law, dentistry, architecture, mortuary science, civil engineering, I can think of a whole lot of college programmes which “scale to the population.”

I consider dentistry as medicine.

The thing about architecture is that so much of modern American housing has been built from forms and pre-fabs. Even in the old days you could buy a house through a Sears catalog, and those things didn’t require a local architect as Sears paid once for all those houses.

Civil engineering requirements probably scale faster than linearly, if we want to truly cost out environmental impacts.

348
DodgerFan1988  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:05:18pm

Orwellian.

349
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:09:12pm

Conservatives lie; details at eleven.

350
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:13:22pm

Can’t remember if I stole this here. Bears repeating even if I did though.

351
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:18:07pm

One of my facebook pals decided to torture me with this picture…

Why would he torture me with this at 9PM??????
352
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:18:15pm

re: #347 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

I consider dentistry as medicine.

The thing about architecture is that so much of modern American housing has been built from forms and pre-fabs. Even in the old days you could buy a house through a Sears catalog, and those things didn’t require a local architect as Sears paid once for all those houses.

Civil engineering requirements probably scale faster than linearly, if we want to truly cost out environmental impacts.

Civil engineering, whether it is to create new infrastructure (water systems, roads, &c) or simply maintain existing infrastructure, requires civil engineers.

Architects design more than houses or office buildings.

One of our village water pumps (the large one) died a noisy mechanical death. Replacing or repairing a public water system requires more than an apprenticeship or even master of plumbing. Because it affects public health, anyone who works on such systems requires a degree in a field related to that.

Our town went for three years without the required public health board because you need at least an RN to run one in this state. (Our new VA nurse in Sidney was pressured really hard into heading up a new board.) A government public health board deals with everything from disease outbreaks to vector control to arranging inspection for such things as public water and sewage systems.

All of those jobs require some sort of education beyond high school.

Our entire technological society as it exists today depends on technical and university graduates to run. All of it.

Speaking of the days when you could get by on a high school education leaves us with a XIX Century society and economy. (Even then, the wealthy and powerful ensured they got education.)

353
plansbandc  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:24:12pm

They make it look so effortless. Remarkable routine.

354
uriel  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:24:44pm

re: #71 ericblair

He’s a coward?

That’s exactly why he might do it.

355
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:28:38pm

(video, 1:08)

356
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:34:00pm

re: #355 Anymouse 🌹

(video, 1:08)

[Embedded content]

This is why we need British style libel laws that not only hold these two asshole accountable for their lies, but for the sponsors who finance such deceit as well!

357
Hecuba's daughter  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:35:41pm

re: #352 Anymouse 🌹


Our town went for three years without the required public health board because you need at least an RN to run one in this state. (Our new VA nurse in Sidney was pressured really hard into heading up a new board.) A government public health board deals with everything from disease outbreaks to vector control to arranging inspection for such things as public water and sewage systems.

All of those jobs require some sort of education beyond high school.

Our entire technological society as it exists today depends on technical and university graduates to run. All of it.

Speaking of the days when you could get by on a high school education leaves us with a XIX Century society and economy. (Even then, the wealthy and powerful ensured they got education.)

Our society may depend on technical and university graduates to run it — but there remain many jobs that don’t require those skills. Plumbers, electricians, truck drivers, bus drivers, caregivers etc are essential to the maintenance of our society. And many of those who are titans of the new industries don’t have degrees — Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, etc.

358
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:42:31pm

re: #357 Hecuba’s daughter

Our society may depend on technical and university graduates to run it — but there remain many jobs that don’t require those skills. Plumbers, electricians, truck drivers, bus drivers, caregivers etc are essential to the maintenance of our society. And many of those who are titans of the new industries don’t have degrees — Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, etc.

That’s true. We require a lot more than we did in the past though.

Bill Gates might not have a college degree, but the hordes of software engineers who work for Microsoft do. Same for Steve Jobs and Apple.

Ditto for Zuckerberg (though he has some college).

All of those companies would be nothing without all the college and technical trained people who work for them. Those men are good at business.

Sure truck drivers and caregivers are essential to society. That’s why they get so much support from conservatives in getting their educations and licenses … BWAHAHAHA I can’t finish that sentence.

359
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:44:33pm

Women And People Of Color Were Elected At Same Rate As White Men In 2018: Report (Huffington Post)

A new report on the 2018 midterm elections found that women and people of color won their races at similar rates to white men ― challenging prevailing notions of what types of candidates are more “electable.”

The Reflective Democracy Campaign ― a group that studies the demographics of elected officials in the U.S. ― looked at the more than 30,000 candidates in races for federal, state and county offices in 2018, as well as those who won, and found that women of color, white women, men of color and white men all won seats in close proportion to their share of candidates.

(more)

360
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:49:19pm

re: #260 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Haven’t we called for something like that, especially on the wealthy who basically pay to keep their kids out of fighting.

361
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:53:06pm

re: #293 The Vicious Babushka

RATIOED TWEET OF THE DAY

[Embedded content]

362
vgranucci  Jun 24, 2019 • 9:58:41pm

re: #286 William Lewis

Its true. I also push the idea that actions are more important than beliefs. That gets the Paulines riled up ;)

Wasn’t it Martin Luther who wanted to drop the book of James from the Bible , since it was in support of works in addition to grace?

363
sagehen  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:03:39pm

re: #353 plansbandc

They make it look so effortless. Remarkable routine.

[Embedded content]

I wouldn’t call it “unrehearsed” — they’d been touring for how many years and done this routine how many times already?

364
Hecuba's daughter  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:05:08pm

re: #293 The Vicious Babushka

RATIOED TWEET OF THE DAY

[Embedded content]

Isn’t the Ratioed Tweet of the day actually Bill O’Reilly’s nonsense?

365
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:06:00pm

re: #343 Hecuba’s daughter

I bet if the tables included a split by gender it would show that college educated white males went overwhelmingly for the GOP.


This is from the first link.

If you look at the bottom, you can see the breakdown by gender and education. For educated men it was 51-47 for Republicans. Considering that is all men, and knowing how conservative older men (>35 are), that means a fairly significant number of younger men voted for Democrats.

366
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:12:03pm

re: #362 vgranucci

Wasn’t it Martin Luther who wanted to drop the book of James from the Bible , since it was in support of works in addition to grace?

Yup. He called that book the “Book of Straw.”

He was also a virulent anti-Semite, which might explain why some Protestant churches are the same (since all of them are derived from Luther’s church).

367
Belafon  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:14:11pm

re: #366 Anymouse 🌹

Yup. He called that book the “Book of Straw.”

He was also a virulent anti-Semite, which might explain why some Protestant churches are the same (since all of them are derived from Luther’s church).

The easiest explanation for why a lot of churches are the same is that it gives certain people a way to satisfy their need to control others because of Divine Right.

368
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:14:43pm

re: #365 Belafon

Glad to see I buck the uneducated white middle-age men trend there.

369
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:21:39pm

For the women here, do you have to study for pregnancy tests, or can you crib the answers with a pen on your wrist? /s

370
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 10:29:48pm

Unemployment is rising in eight Trump states, and polls show some have turned on him (CNBC)

Bullet points:

Unemployment rates edged up year over year in Mississippi, Arizona, North Carolina, Indiana, South Carolina, Kansas, Missouri and Nebraska, according to the latest numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Trump’s net approval rating remains high in most of these states. But more people in Arizona and North Carolina disapprove of his job as president than approve, according to the latest Morning Consult poll.

(more at the link, including a chart from the Bureau of Labor Statistics)

Net approval rating for Trump here in Nebraska is +2. That’s way down from what it was in the 2016 election. +2 is a surmountable disadvantage with a good candidate in most elections. We only have five electoral votes, but I imagine a Democratic candidate will welcome EC votes from any state she or he can get them from.

371
Dread Pirate  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:06:24pm

Should be 24 minutes till launch

Youtube Video

372
Dread Pirate  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:07:15pm

reload 371, edited for better link.

373
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:10:02pm

About 20 minutes till targeted T-O of 2:30 am EDT
Nighttime Falcon Heavy launch with dual outside booster recovery

374
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:13:45pm

re: #373 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

About 20 minutes till targeted T-O of 2:30 am EDT
Nighttime Falcon Heavy launch with dual outside booster recovery

[Embedded content]

Spacex webcast now transmitting
WARNING launch window runs til around 3:30, and if you’re planning on watching through payload deployment there will be 4 upper stage engine burns, with 24 separate payloads released, for a total mission time of over 6 hours
So, get that coffee pot a brewing

375
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:17:40pm

re: #373 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

About 20 minutes till targeted T-O of 2:30 am EDT
Nighttime Falcon Heavy launch with dual outside booster recovery

[Embedded content]

Recovery of core booster will be attempted, way, way, way out to sea.
Also, they will be attempting to catch 1 fairing in a net suspended above the fairing recovery ship

376
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:31:31pm

Max-Q
All VROOM, no boom

377
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:33:14pm

Side boosters separated

378
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:34:13pm

Center core stage separation

379
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:34:40pm

payload fairings separated

380
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:38:16pm

Side booster entry burn conducted, and was quite a sight

381
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:39:25pm

AWESOME
Stuck the dual landings

382
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:42:04pm

Center core missed the boat

383
Dread Pirate  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:42:16pm

Two outta three ain’t bad.

384
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:44:07pm

re: #383 Dread Pirate

Two outta three ain’t bad.

Yeah, was a hell of a try.

385
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:50:02pm

re: #383 Dread Pirate

Two outta three ain’t bad.

Watching someone replay the center core recovery, does look like maybe one of the three engines burning shutdown prematurely, and caused the booster to tip and fly away from the drone ship

386
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:51:03pm
387
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2019 • 11:59:03pm

re: #384 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Yeah, was a hell of a try.

That’s plain kewl to watch.

All those cameras mounted in various places around the components of the rocket allow promotion of the launch in ways that were impossible during Gemini and Mercury.

Such stunning video is the sort of thing that inspires teens and children all around the planet to think “that’s kewl, when I grow up I want to work on stuff like that.” They then go to schools or whatnot to learn the relevant fields.

When he launched his car into space, it was both a proof-of-concept for his new rocket (well, I have this Tesla lying around anyway) and a really good headline-grabbing event.

It also inspired a “Tesla truther” conspiracy, mostly from the flat earther nuts.

388
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:20:55am

(Goes to Utah Outcasts, 8:32, caution for adult words)

Christians are mad rugby player Israel Folau was sacked. He went on a wingnut Christian screed on social media against non-Christians and LGBT+. He is now suing.

Christians Mad About Rugby Player Israel Folau Being Sacked

389
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:54:25am

re: #333 Belafon

Well, except the part where the US basically invented modern public education so people could red the Bible.

That was an idea we borrowed from Scotland but adopted with great enthusiasm, along with a lot of Scots.

390
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:35:03am
391
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:53:01am

re: #388 Anymouse 🌹

(Goes to Utah Outcasts, 8:32, caution for adult words)

Christians are mad rugby player Israel Folau was sacked. He went on a wingnut Christian screed on social media against non-Christians and LGBT+. He is now suing.

Nephew was telling me about a follow-up to the Gay Cake blowup: that the bakers then sent an order to a gay bakery asking for a cake with Leviticus 18:22 (“‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”)

They really go out of their way to make a Cultural War issue out of this.

392
Dread Pirate  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:20:43am

I’m in the back yard, it’s dark and critters are running around on the other side of the fence and arguing amongst themselves. My dog comes out and I stomp my feet and clap my hands to get the critters quiet to prevent confrontations. My dog hears them and me making noise. He looks over his shoulder at me to say, “You’re ghostin’ us, motherfucker. I don’t care who you are back in the world, you give away our position one more time, I’ll bleed ya, real quiet. Leave ya here. Got that?” Then he charges the fence and runs the perimeter. I kept them quiet.

393
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:22:27am

re: #392 Dread Pirate

you remind me why I am not a pet person. Don’t minds cats & dogs & the like but lack the ability to communicate with them on such a level.

394
Dread Pirate  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:32:09am

Dogs make total sense to me, people not so much.

395
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:38:42am

re: #394 Dread Pirate

Dogs make total sense to me, people not so much.

Lat time I kept dogs was on a six-acre ranch in Sedona, Arizona, where they could run around free all day, they only came in to be fed and slept in the garage at night.

396
Teukka  Jun 25, 2019 • 3:18:06am
397
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 3:22:19am

re: #396 Teukka

Russia has been dumping dollars and buying gold.

No problem, we will just declare bankruptcy and walk away, paying a few pennies on the dollar…worked before.

398
Dave In Austin  Jun 25, 2019 • 3:35:47am

Newt……

399
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 3:41:12am

The whole student debt discussion is being spun off by the GOP to avoid discussing the issue of education and how such ridiculous levels of student debt arose in the first place.

I was fortunate to graduate debt-free in the early 1980’s, thanks to Social Security, BEOG money and subsidized in-state tuition rates. I could make up the difference with part-time student jobs in the college library, washing dishes or doing beekeeping.

I find it unconscionable to saddle students with such levels of debt at the start of their careers.

400
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 25, 2019 • 3:41:16am
401
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 25, 2019 • 3:44:52am
402
boredtechindenver  Jun 25, 2019 • 3:48:50am

It is more likely that Verizon (AS701) did not filter routes with other Tier 1 provider AS numbers in the path on the BGP session where the CloudFlare routes were being announced. The documentation that I saw stated that the Cloudflare routes were originally announced to AS3356, then on to the network that was announcing these routes to Verizon (AS701).

If Verizon (AS701) did have AS path filters in place, the other issue would then be that they did not have route filters for individual routes based on IRR based objects. If they had these filters in place, then DQE Communications (AS33154) had added the Cloudflare AS number to their AS set or which ever IRR object they were using with Verizon (AS701) to build import policy filters. In any case, someone, either AS701 or AS33154 were not following the RFCs or BCPs for BGP import and / or export policies.

403
William Lewis  Jun 25, 2019 • 3:51:52am

re: #366 Anymouse 🌹

Yup. He called that book the “Book of Straw.”

He was also a virulent anti-Semite, which might explain why some Protestant churches are the same (since all of them are derived from Luther’s church).

MIght want to consider reading a little history if you care about accuracy. It’s just a tiny bit more complicated than that but of course what do I know?

404
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 25, 2019 • 3:52:33am
405
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 25, 2019 • 3:56:43am
406
Patricia Kayden  Jun 25, 2019 • 4:02:00am
407
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 4:04:04am

re: #406 Patricia Kayden

Poor shinzo abe, all that golf for nothing.

assume that Trump Properties charged green fees for Abe…

408
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 4:10:15am

re: #406 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

By unfair, he means that he can’t make a buck off of it. So sick of him complaining that deals and policy that keep the world stable are “unfair.” But go ahead Donald stir up Japanese nationalism. I heard it went over so well last time when your father was continuing the family tradition of not serving his country.

409
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 25, 2019 • 4:12:09am
410
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 4:18:14am

re: #409 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

So he more than just looks like Trump.

411
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 4:22:48am

Hi all. Not gonna be on as much in the weekdays since I have a new job with an EPA contractor doing data entry.

412
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:08:48am

re: #409 Backwoods_Sleuth

Boris Johnson has just described the Garden Bridge as an “excellent project”. It cost £53m and doesn’t exist.

Only £46m was taxpayer-funded…

bbc.com

413
jeffreyw  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:13:56am

Good morning!

414
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:21:07am
415
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:22:26am

re: #406 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

The supposed reason he opposes it is because when it was negotiated in 1951, the leaders of a nation still rebuilding after the horrors of WWII and largely reliant upon foreign aid didn’t envision a time when a future nutjob of a president would try to start a war and expect our allies to be obligated to fight on our side.

416
Jay C  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:24:47am

re: #412 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

re: #409 Backwoods_Sleuth

Boris Johnson has just described the Garden Bridge as an “excellent project”. It cost £53m and doesn’t exist.

Only £46m was taxpayer-funded…

bbc.com

I think a partial explanation might be found buried in the middle of the piece:

The biggest expenditure was the £21m contract to build the bridge - with campaigners still wanting to know why that was allowed when land had not even been secured.

I think an investigation into exactly who was on the receiving end of that largesse might be illuminating: or, as the classicists might say, Cui bono???

417
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:26:34am

re: #414 The Vicious Babushka

The Hyatt costs $200/night. These camps cost $775/day for each child. Maybe we should send them all to the Hyatt?

“If they had not entered the Confederacy illegally, they would not be held in this camp!”

-Director of Andersonville POW camp, on crowded, unsanitary conditions there.

418
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:28:45am

For all their anger at the use of the term “concentration camps” and insistence that they’re nothing like those run by the Nazis, they certainly seem to be spending a lot of time arguing why they should be allowed to do so.

419
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:32:33am
420
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:40:55am

Basically the only argument that wingnuts can make for why “concentration camps” is not the right term…is because kids are not deliberately being executed. That if they die from illness or disease while in custody, then it was deserved because “They broke the law!”

421
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:41:34am
422
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:44:24am

re: #421 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

[Embedded content]

“We’re making America safer…but cutting all our allies loose! We’re respected again…by the dictators who thank us for empowering them!”

423
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:45:27am

And TPM documents another right wing scammer…

After months of viral fame, the man responsible for live-streaming dozens of his and his masked militia friends’ “arrests” of migrants and asylum seekers at the border was charged with impersonating a federal agent, according to newly unsealed court filings.

The Daily Beast also revealed Friday that Benvie had been charged with fraud in Oklahoma, for allegedly padding his own pockets with money he ostensibly raised for a cancer-striken child.

In other words, just another typical Christian Flock Fleecing Republican…

talkingpointsmemo.com

424
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:50:35am
425
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:55:32am
426
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 5:59:32am

re: #425 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

He retweeted it with the POTUS account also

427
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:00:04am

morning all.

THIS is exactly the problem with EVERYTHING
the incompetence and chaos is good for business so it’s never gonna be called out

Top executives tell Axios that a real “Trump slump” is hitting digital and cable news.

“The shock factor around President Trump’s unplanned announcements, staff departures, taunting tweets and erratic behavior is wearing off, and media companies are scrambling to find their next big moneymaker.”

the media companies: as long as we’re making enough money and getting ours, we dont care how bad he’s screwing you all

428
lawhawk  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:00:58am

re: #103 DangerMan

yup that’s exactly what they did do
billo nails it. //

Bill’s 3/5 of the way there….

429
lawhawk  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:02:28am
430
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:04:37am

re: #426 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

He retweeted it with the POTUS account also

431
Citizen K  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:09:07am

We really don’t seem to have any media or “major” platform on our side. The ones that have chosen a side have chosen to become fellow travelers with this fucking monster of a president and all they have to offer is mealy mouth paeans that they know are transparent bullshit and they just fucking smirk and say ‘what can you do about it, we own the fucking game’.

And they do. And that’s the fucking awful and depressing part, they do all but own the game and make it so fucking impenetrable in service to the golden dolt.

432
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:10:43am

re: #431 Citizen K

[Embedded content]

We really don’t seem to have any media or “major” platform on our side.

They are on the side of celebrity and access, not about to do anything to endanger that.

433
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:12:20am

Boris Johnson doesn’t know how to be a human.

434
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:14:56am
435
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:14:57am

re: #433 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Boris Johnson doesn’t know how to be a human.

He paints imaginary sums of money on the sides of buses…

436
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:18:24am
437
Citizen K  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:20:15am

re: #434 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

[Embedded content]

The whole entire fix is in. And man, yes, Biden needs to be taken to task when he does dumb shit, but we have a president credibly accused of rape 2 dozen times over. And it merits a blurb in the book section on the ‘paper of record’ maybe a minute of coverage on the nightly news.

There seems to be nothing a Republican can do that can’t and won’t be ignored away under ‘boys will be boys’. A Dem sneezes, it’s a fucking national scandal meriting 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage. And the harder you fight back against that double standard, the more it hardens out of spite, the more powerful it becomes because ‘FUCK YOU, that’s why’.

438
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:21:44am

re: #434 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

[Embedded content]

I don’t know ‘bout everybody else, but I’m looking forward to months of coverage where every sniffle, sneeze, and head bob by the Dem nominee is treated as a sign of a debilitating disease that will totally disqualify them from the presidency.

////////

439
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:23:11am
440
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:24:47am

re: #437 Citizen K

The whole entire fix is in. And man, yes, Biden needs to be taken to task when he does dumb shit, but we have a president credibly accused of rape 2 dozen times over. And it merits a blurb in the book section on the ‘paper of record’ maybe a minute of coverage on the nightly news.

There seems to be nothing a Republican can do that can’t and won’t be ignored away under ‘boys will be boys’. A Dem sneezes, it’s a fucking national scandal meriting 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage. And the harder you fight back against that double standard, the more it hardens out of spite, the more powerful it becomes because ‘FUCK YOU, that’s why’.

*Accusation of rape against a Republican*
GOP: Look at the Democrats trying to feed children. How dare they.
*Democrat touches a woman’s shoulder*
Democrats: Look at the stupid shit he’s doing.

When the goal is to get as many negative reactions about a politician as possible, which one do you think the media is going to go after?

441
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:26:08am
442
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:27:55am

re: #440 Belafon

*Accusation of rape against a Republican*
GOP: Look at the Democrats trying to feed children. How dare they.
*Democrat touches a woman’s shoulder*
Democrats: Look at the stupid shit he’s doing.

When the goal is to get as many negative reactions about a politician as possible, which one do you think the media is going to go after?

The media has decided that “Republican accused of rape” is about as exciting as “Dog bites man,” while a story about a Dem being crucified by the #Metoo crowd is ratings gold because of the “hypocrisy” angle.

443
Rightwingconspirator  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:30:40am

I guess I have an unpopular opinion this morning. Michael Jackson gone 10 years.
Dgaf.

444
Citizen K  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:31:51am

re: #440 Belafon

*Accusation of rape against a Republican*
GOP: Look at the Democrats trying to feed children. How dare they.
*Democrat touches a woman’s shoulder*
Democrats: Look at the stupid shit he’s doing.

When the goal is to get as many negative reactions about a politician as possible, which one do you think the media is going to go after?

If that was even the actual metric they operated off of, that’d be bad enough. But they actively run apologia after apologia for the GOP while grinding their foot on every single minor misdeed a Dem does. The fact that our more consistent standards are weaponized against us like a bludgeon just makes it feel like we can never win, and even if we tried to adopt scorched earth tactics to counter the GOP’s own, it’d never work because we’ll just get blame for both our sins and the GOPs own and they’ll get treated even further like the saintliest super-motherfucking god-touched heroes forever.

445
I Would Prefer Not To  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:31:52am

re: #230 Stanley Sea

Link!

isgcTs6y0eEUl6BSK2TbRL8fUAoeh0JHgPl1whTWPsuWEiAjwcaeuqL4XbAppNa9y8Y4mPxeHHx50EsbYBHn7ukwqKbpE2/QXkpPFRxUfQkw6VEQOGmoTy+Xsx7V3F6LJkFoc4hTA6bgwhSaTIbayZhkqKGkt5+nAYjkikjNTVoYUdpcP4sCzCOh25UkZq0soi1Hjb6qKqhUTDHDzOyAbXlKqVhY6oCo0h3CqBL5AF351Z/RiF9eZwLKPRvW4My8UWC6OEqPYgm6TM3HkxR7QeJAIyvpeEYvN2IlQlCrP+LbbXbUK/94pmbjyMt+AezrD3HO7rdKt7LP+tTCQcwGwXd3jnepjTnOQC9Zl0srtQjAs1nFzUon51mVownm74kj0OpR5MRekX8=

446
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:44:00am

re: #444 Citizen K

If that was even the actual metric they operated off of, that’d be bad enough. But they actively run apologia after apologia for the GOP while grinding their foot on every single minor misdeed a Dem does. The fact that our more consistent standards are weaponized against us like a bludgeon just makes it feel like we can never win, and even if we tried to adopt scorched earth tactics to counter the GOP’s own, it’d never work because we’ll just get blame for both our sins and the GOPs own and they’ll get treated even further like the saintliest super-motherfucking god-touched heroes forever.

I only offer this as evidence: When’s the last time we heard anything about the Governor, Lt. Governor, and Attorney General of Virginia?

447
steve_davis  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:45:00am

re: #48 Scottish Dragon

Trump’s best movie it to force this into the House. All bets are off after that. State GOP legislatures tend to be more wild and extreme that what you see nationally (God knows they are here in NC) and if they can throw the election they will.

can we please stop with this? There is no conceivable scenario in which Trump loses the next election and somehow remains in power. Past January 21st of 2021. The Chief Justice will be swearing in a new president at that time. The military will be ceding civilian control to the new administration. Trump is welcome to bitch about it as much as he wants to between November and January, but there will be a transition going on, and nothing Trump or Republicans in the House can do to stop it. There is absolutely no constitional process by which an outgoing president can claim something was rigged so as to stay in power. The system was specifically designed so that this cannot happen. The military won’t support it. The Supreme Court wouldn’t support it. The House won’t support it. Inidividual state legislatures won’t support it.

448
Citizen K  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:47:10am
449
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:47:25am

re: #441 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Argentina Junta Shit but with a Christian Fundamentalist flavor.

450
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:47:58am

re: #447 steve_davis

can we please stop with this? There is no conceivable scenario in which Trump loses the next election and somehow remains in power. Past January 21st of 2021. The Chief Justice will be swearing in a new president at that time. The military will be ceding civilian control to the new administration. Trump is welcome to bitch about it as much as he wants to between November and January, but there will be a transition going on, and nothing Trump or Republicans in the House can do to stop it. There is absolutely no constitional process by which an outgoing president can claim something was rigged so as to stay in power. The system was specifically designed so that this cannot happen. The military won’t support it. The Supreme Court wouldn’t support it. The House won’t support it. Inidividual state legislatures won’t support it.

Justice Garland would like a word.

Actually agree with you—they couldn’t corrupt the existing structures fast enough for 2020. Don’t make any bets if they get four more years.

451
steve_davis  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:49:22am

re: #67 Scottish Dragon

He will refuse to leave. He cannot admit defeat and he knows he is at grave legal risk the moment he leaves. He has been building the “Illegals rigged the election” theme for two years now and he will weaponize it in 2020 to mount legal challenges IMHO. I see no reason for him to NOT to do it.

He does not respect the tradition of peaceful turnover of power, and he does not recognize or respect anything else beyond his immediate fulfillment of needs. What seems obvious to me at this point is that Trump will do the worst thing possible if allowed, and he will do it without thought or hesitation. Moreover, he equates use of armed force with strength. He already toyed with the idea of a National Guard occupation of Chicago a year ago. When things get dicey here and protestors have taken over the streets to demand he leaves, he knows exactly what his base will demand and love:

Beating us and shooting at us.

“refuse to leave” how? do you imagine his secret service detail is going to be thinking “well, he is the former president, so clearly he’s entitled to be here”?

452
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:50:07am

re: #446 Belafon

I only offer this as evidence: When’s the last time we heard anything about the Governor, Lt. Governor, and Attorney General of Virginia?

Last week, at least for those of us who actually live in VA. Virginia Dems are facing criticism for using Northam to raise campaign funds after they just got done last year demanding his resignation, while Fairfax is back in the news because he’s claiming the sexual assault allegations made against him have generated name recognition he wants to use to run as Northam’s successor in 2021.

453
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:50:28am

re: #448 Citizen K

[Embedded content]

Don’t forget how the Screw York Times teamed up with Breitfart to publish the Libelous Clinton Cash book!

454
Citizen K  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:52:10am

re: #452 Targetpractice

Last week, at least for those of us who actually live in VA. Virginia Dems are facing criticism for using Northam to raise campaign funds after they just got done last year demanding his resignation, while Fairfax is back in the news because he’s claiming the sexual assault allegations made against him have generated name recognition he wants to use to run as Northam’s successor in 2021.

It’s not national level scandal anymore, but yeah, seems like plenty damage already done. Meanwhile, what consequences have come of GOPers doing the exact same shit?

455
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:53:53am

re: #454 Citizen K

It’s not national level scandal anymore, but yeah, seems like plenty damage already done. Meanwhile, what consequences have come of GOPers doing the exact same shit?

I still believe this was a Roger Stone dirty trick.

456
William Lewis  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:55:00am

re: #430 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Seen more Anti Trump articles in the USA Today than the Times and the rest combined.

457
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:55:17am

re: #454 Citizen K

It’s not national level scandal anymore, but yeah, seems like plenty damage already done. Meanwhile, what consequences have come of GOPers doing the exact same shit?

So far, the biggest sex scandals involving Repubs in the same time frame…have been over using taxpayer dollars to pay off settlements and hypocrisy about pushing mistresses to get abortions. But in the court of public opinion, the standard defense for a Repub accused of rape is still the same as ever: “SHE’S A LYING WHORE!”

458
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:55:54am

re: #447 steve_davis

can we please stop with this? There is no conceivable scenario in which Trump loses the next election and somehow remains in power. Past January 21st of 2021. The Chief Justice will be swearing in a new president at that time.

Trump has managed to get away with things that no politician has, which is why I cannot fully put it past him, although I find it unlikely for the reasons you stated.

But he will certainly launch and perpetuate the narrative that his Democratic successor is somehow illegitimate and seized power through stolen votes or some other sort of irregularities/manipulation and this will continue to go unchallenged.

459
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:56:26am

re: #455 Joe Bacon 🌹

I still believe this was a Roger Stone dirty trick.

I’m not sure. But goddamn if the timing coinciding with Northam’s support for the most expansive pro choice legislation in Virginia state history wasn’t curious as hell.

460
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:56:42am

re: #457 Targetpractice

So far, the biggest sex scandals involving Repubs in the same time frame…have been over using taxpayer dollars to pay off settlements and hypocrisy about pushing mistresses to get abortions. But in the court of public opinion, the standard defense for a Repub accused of rape is still the same as ever: “SHE’S A LYING WHORE!”

And IOKIYAR since Jesus always forgives anything a Republican does!

461
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:58:25am

re: #451 steve_davis

“refuse to leave” how? do you imagine his secret service detail is going to be thinking “well, he is the former president, so clearly he’s entitled to be here”?

I would love to see him wheeled out on a handcart in a straitjacket and face mask, Hannibal Lechter style.

462
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 6:58:59am

re: #460 Joe Bacon 🌹

And IOKIYAR since Jesus always forgives anything a Republican does!

you can go whoremongering or even lay with young boys as one does with women and God will forgive you as long as you repent and promise to be a better Christian.

But if you continue to support things that God finds an abdomination, like abortion or gay marriage/military service, then God will NEVER forgive you.

463
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:00:37am

re: #447 steve_davis

can we please stop with this? There is no conceivable scenario in which Trump loses the next election and somehow remains in power. Past January 21st of 2021. The Chief Justice will be swearing in a new president at that time. The military will be ceding civilian control to the new administration. Trump is welcome to bitch about it as much as he wants to between November and January, but there will be a transition going on, and nothing Trump or Republicans in the House can do to stop it. There is absolutely no constitional process by which an outgoing president can claim something was rigged so as to stay in power. The system was specifically designed so that this cannot happen. The military won’t support it. The Supreme Court wouldn’t support it. The House won’t support it. Inidividual state legislatures won’t support it.

Had they truly been that powerful, they would have stopped the House takeover in 2018.

464
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:01:20am

re: #463 Belafon

Had they truly been that powerful, they would have stopped the House takeover in 2018.

They’re not that powerful.

Yet.

465
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:02:31am

re: #463 Belafon

Had they truly been that powerful, they would have stopped the House takeover in 2018.

I do tend to agree with this analysis. My worries are less about beating Trump next fall and more about defeating the elements that made his rise possible in the first place.

466
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:03:57am

I think Mitch McConnell is more dangerous than Donald Trump.

467
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:04:19am

re: #465 HappyWarrior

I do tend to agree with this analysis. My worries are less about beating Trump next fall and more about defeating the elements that made his rise possible in the first place.

That is the ancient fight. We can’t return to it until we have stabilized the battlefield.

468
Hecuba's daughter  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:05:17am

re: #447 steve_davis

can we please stop with this? There is no conceivable scenario in which Trump loses the next election and somehow remains in power. Past January 21st of 2021. The Chief Justice will be swearing in a new president at that time. The military will be ceding civilian control to the new administration. Trump is welcome to bitch about it as much as he wants to between November and January, but there will be a transition going on, and nothing Trump or Republicans in the House can do to stop it. There is absolutely no constitional process by which an outgoing president can claim something was rigged so as to stay in power. The system was specifically designed so that this cannot happen. The military won’t support it. The Supreme Court wouldn’t support it. The House won’t support it. Inidividual state legislatures won’t support it.

I agree with you 100%. Trump likes to rant to boost his ratings and it’s certainly possible that his Russian handler is encouraging to stay on, but as much as he is a bully, he’s not going to do anything but run off at the mouth when he leaves office; he will use a defeat as an opportunity to raise money, get television time, demand stronger voter suppression laws, and try to run again in 2024, assuming he’s not in prison for income tax evasion.

469
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:09:48am

re: #468 Hecuba’s daughter

I agree with you 100%. Trump likes to rant to boost his ratings and it’s certainly possible that his Russian handler is encouraging to stay on, but as much as he is a bully, he’s not going to do anything but run off at the mouth when he leaves office; he will use a defeat as an opportunity to raise money, get television time, demand stronger voter suppression laws, and try to run again in 2024, assuming he’s not in prison for income tax evasion.

That’s a perfectly valid opinion, but this would be a good time to act as though you are wrong.

470
Barefoot Grin  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:10:05am
471
William Lewis  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:11:04am

re: #441 The Vicious Babushka

Chile. Argentina. Franco’s Spain. Italy. And of course, aryan looking Slavs by Nazi Germany.

Resist!

472
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:15:21am

re: #467 Decatur Deb

That is the ancient fight. We can’t return to it until we have stabilized the battlefield.

I agree with that. I’m just saying Biden if he’s the guy needs to be more than just a short term bandaid. There are ugly elements in this country that must be defeated and I hope whether it’s Biden or Warren or whomever we recognize that. We can’t face a Trump 2.0.

473
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:17:23am

re: #472 HappyWarrior

I agree with that. I’m just saying Biden if he’s the guy needs to be more than just a short term bandaid. There are ugly elements in this country that must be defeated and I hope whether it’s Biden or Warren or whomever we recognize that. We can’t face a Trump 2.0.

That’s why I don’t care who wins the nomination, as long as they are the most able to sweep this bullshit away and buy us time to restart the real struggle.

474
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:17:24am

re: #466 The Vicious Babushka

I think Mitch McConnell is more dangerous than Donald Trump.

Because he actually understands government. But collectively they both are. Thankfully McCarthy is Minority Leader with no imminent signs of gaining back the House. The courts are hit or miss.

475
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:19:45am

re: #473 Decatur Deb

That’s why I don’t care who wins the nomination, as long as they are the most able to sweep this bullshit away and buy us time to restart the real struggle.

Well it’s all the same struggle. Modernity versus retro. The promise of a better tomorrow versus a romantic past that never existed. We won that with Obama and Bill Clinton but lost the latter to Trump and Reagan.

476
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:25:38am

re: #475 HappyWarrior

Well it’s all the same struggle. Modernity versus retro. The promise of a better tomorrow versus a romantic past that never existed. We won that with Obama and Bill Clinton but lost the latter to Trump and Reagan.

Bill Clinton and his dick put us where we are today. Voted for him twice.

477
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:27:42am

re: #476 Decatur Deb

Bill Clinton and his dick put us where we are today. Voted for him twice.

don’t forget the role of the SCOTUS in 2000

478
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:30:03am

Think about everything going on in politics right now when you read this:

479
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:30:30am

re: #476 Decatur Deb

Bill Clinton and his dick put us where we are today. Voted for him twice.

I don’t disagree but it’s a host of factors. My point is I want the nominee to talk about a better tomorrow rather than just a return. I don’t dislike Biden but I think he has a tendency to romanticize the past. Won’t stop me from voting or campaigning for him if he’s the nominee mind you but this should be a factor in who we nominate. I don’t need promises of grandeur, just assurance that our best days are ahead. And that’s how we’ve won.

480
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:31:47am

re: #478 Belafon

Think about everything going on in politics right now when you read this:

[Embedded content]

The nomination is still anyone’s game. I still lean towards someone like O’Rourke or Harris at this point. Though I’m warming up to Warren.

481
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:33:59am

re: #477 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

don’t forget the role of the SCOTUS in 2000

His head brought the country to such a head.

482
Hecuba's daughter  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:35:00am

re: #476 Decatur Deb

Bill Clinton and his dick put us where we are today. Voted for him twice.

Clinton lost the House and Senate in 1994 thanks to Newt and his brilliant framing of Clinton’s tax increases on the wealthy and effort to provide health care. Gore should have won the election outright — it shouldn’t have been so close — (don’t forget the butterfly ballot that lost him thousands of votes and the disenfranchisement of thousands of African-Americans who were deprived of voting due to Katherine Harris) but Gore’s performance in the debate where camera caught him sighing and making faces certainly didn’t help him and the media was just as dishonest then as it was in 2016, in promoting the GOP.

483
Citizen K  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:36:38am

re: #476 Decatur Deb

Bill Clinton and his dick put us where we are today. Voted for him twice.

re: #479 HappyWarrior

I don’t disagree but it’s a host of factors. My point is I want the nominee to talk about a better tomorrow rather than just a return. I don’t dislike Biden but I think he has a tendency to romanticize the past. Won’t stop me from voting or campaigning for him if he’s the nominee mind you but this should be a factor in who we nominate. I don’t need promises of grandeur, just assurance that our best days are ahead. And that’s how we’ve won.

Putting it all on Clinton ignores the GOP Congress’s involvement, especially since Gingrich help really snowball the total bad faith operation of the party in the way we see it now.

re: #482 Hecuba’s daughter

Clinton lost the House and Senate in 1994 thanks to Newt and his brilliant framing of Clinton’s tax increases on the wealthy and effort to provide health care. Gore should have won the election outright — it shouldn’t have been so close — (don’t forget the butterfly ballot that lost him thousands of votes and the disenfranchisement of thousands of African-Americans who were deprived of voting due to Katherine Harris) but Gore’s performance in the debate where camera caught him sighing and making faces certainly didn’t help him and the media was just as dishonest then as it was in 2016, in promoting the GOP.

All over, it feels like the exact same thing of heaping nearly all the blame on Hillary for all of the 2016 failures. Like another case of ‘Dems must be to blame for everything’.

484
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:40:41am

re: #479 HappyWarrior

I don’t disagree but it’s a host of factors. My point is I want the nominee to talk about a better tomorrow rather than just a return. I don’t dislike Biden but I think he has a tendency to romanticize the past. Won’t stop me from voting or campaigning for him if he’s the nominee mind you but this should be a factor in who we nominate. I don’t need promises of grandeur, just assurance that our best days are ahead. And that’s how we’ve won.

To me, the entire appeal of a Biden nomination rests in this idea that he can win over voters with the promise of “turning back the clock.” But not in the way that wingnuts fantasize about when they think they can just undo the entire 20th century. No, Biden’s appeal is this idea that we can just “erase” the Trump years and return things back to status quo ante bellum circa 2016. That we can fix the whole sodding mess by reversing Trump’s policy changes, dismantle legislation like the Trump Tax Cuts, and get things back to where they were when Obama left office.

And the reason for that appeal is because people want to act like Trump’s election was a “mistake,” an experiment that failed and that is best swept under the rug. Sort of like how Obama got elected in the first place, this driving desire to try to reach back to “better times” by acting as if the last election just didn’t happen. And that’s what Biden is offering them, to make that run for the presidency that he bowed out of in 2016 and continue the “good times.”

485
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:40:49am

re: #482 Hecuba’s daughter

Clinton lost the House and Senate in 1994 thanks to Newt and his brilliant framing of Clinton’s tax increases on the wealthy and effort to provide health care. Gore should have won the election outright — it shouldn’t have been so close — (don’t forget the butterfly ballot that lost him thousands of votes and the disenfranchisement of thousands of African-Americans who were deprived of voting due to Katherine Harris) but Gore’s performance in the debate where camera caught him sighing and making faces certainly didn’t help him and the media was just as dishonest then as it was in 2016, in promoting the GOP.

Gore lost the narrative. It’s too bad because had he become the 43rd President, things would be very different especially environmentally speaking and on the courts but also in FP. I think Gore was in a tough spot tho. People generally liked Clinton’s performance even if they thought he wasn’t the most upstanding spouse. That said, it gets me mad at all the phonies who had moral outrage at Clinton yet think Trump is divinely chosen and his moral failures- which far exceed Bill’s aren’t disqualifying and their nastiness to the Obama family. The Obama family is pure class and the racist right treated them like shit.

486
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:42:57am

re: #478 Belafon

Only 22% of Democrats registered to vote say they know a lot about the candidates’ positions.
Only 35% say they’re paying close attention, with almost two-thirds saying they’re paying some or no attention

Think about how most people will not get wrapped up in the election until next spring/summer, for chrissakes.

487
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:43:17am

re: #483 Citizen K

Putting it all on Clinton ignores the GOP Congress’s involvement, especially since Gingrich help really snowball the total bad faith operation of the party in the way we see it now.

We have been on knife-edge politics since Reagan. Any one screw-up can throw the country off by 90 degrees. Fumbling with a blue dress was enough to finish Gore. A half-dozen small errors scuttled HRC. That’s the reality of a schizo electorate.

488
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:43:20am

re: #484 Targetpractice

To me, the entire appeal of a Biden nomination rests in this idea that he can win over voters with the promise of “turning back the clock.” But not in the way that wingnuts fantasize about when they think they can just undo the entire 20th century. No, Biden’s appeal is this idea that we can just “erase” the Trump years and return things back to status quo ante bellum circa 2016. That we can fix the whole sodding mess by reversing Trump’s policy changes, dismantle legislation like the Trump Tax Cuts, and get things back to where they were when Obama left office.

And the reason for that appeal is because people want to act like Trump’s election was a “mistake,” an experiment that failed and that is best swept under the rug. Sort of like how Obama got elected in the first place, this driving desire to try to reach back to “better times” by acting as if the last election just didn’t happen. And that’s what Biden is offering them, to make that run for the presidency that he bowed out of in 2016 and continue the “good times.”

I’d happily go back to 2016 but I hope Biden is astute enough to know that we’ll find ourselves in the same mess if we just naively treat the entire political right as just people we disagree with and Trump is a freak accident.

489
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:44:05am

re: #437 Citizen K

The whole entire fix is in. And man, yes, Biden needs to be taken to task when he does dumb shit, but we have a president credibly accused of rape 2 dozen times over. And it merits a blurb in the book section on the ‘paper of record’ maybe a minute of coverage on the nightly news.

There seems to be nothing a Republican can do that can’t and won’t be ignored away under ‘boys will be boys’. A Dem sneezes, it’s a fucking national scandal meriting 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage. And the harder you fight back against that double standard, the more it hardens out of spite, the more powerful it becomes because ‘FUCK YOU, that’s why’.

as i pointed out in re: #427 DangerMan
it’s not about ignoring it, boys will be boys etc. that’s just how it looks

what it really is is that they figured out what sells and how to package it to maximum effect (ie profits)

490
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:44:53am

re: #487 Decatur Deb

We have been on knife-edge politics since Reagan. Any one screw-up can throw the country off by 90 degrees. Fumbling with a blue dress was enough to finish Gore. A half-dozen small errors scuttled HRC. That’s the reality of a schizo electorate.

And a news media that plays to the lowest common denominator and is fixated on ratings and access over reporting news.

491
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:45:16am

re: #483 Citizen K

Putting it all on Clinton ignores the GOP Congress’s involvement, especially since Gingrich help really snowball the total bad faith operation of the party in the way we see it now.

All over, it feels like the exact same thing of heaping nearly all the blame on Hillary for all of the 2016 failures. Like another case of ‘Dems must be to blame for everything’.

I’m not blaming HRC. I’m just saying in general we do better when the message is received of a better tomorrow. I blame voters not her who bought Trumps bs for why we are where we are and selfish purist lefties and Russian agitprop.

492
Citizen K  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:46:20am

re: #485 HappyWarrior

Gore lost the narrative. It’s too bad because had he become the 43rd President, things would be very different especially environmentally speaking and on the courts but also in FP. I think Gore was in a tough spot tho. People generally liked Clinton’s performance even if they thought he wasn’t the most upstanding spouse. That said, it gets me mad at all the phonies who had moral outrage at Clinton yet think Trump is divinely chosen and his moral failures- which far exceed Bill’s aren’t disqualifying and their nastiness to the Obama family. The Obama family is pure class and the racist right treated them like shit.

Gore got fucked over by the centrist camp in the Dems pleading with him to distance himself from Clinton, egged on by a media who wanted to hang Clinton and impeachment around Gore’s neck, all the while disingenuously tarring him with some of the dumbest shit and promoting W with that ‘aw-shucks’ ‘compassionate conservatism’ hagiographic bullshit. Like, how much of the damage done to Clinton and Gore was via Dems who took the GOP’s bad faith BS at faith value and became very very ‘concerned’?

re: #489 DangerMan

as i pointed out in
it’s not about ignoring it, boys will be boys etc. that’s just how it looks

what it really is is that they figured out what sells and how to package it to maximum effect (ie profits)

Considering how consistent it is far as GOP ass-covering and apologia, I’m not even sure it’s that, especially with how much they openly crave validation from conservative audiences that constantly spit in and kick them in the face, while attacking and denigrating their own liberal audiences with, again, unerring consistency.

493
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:47:47am

re: #491 HappyWarrior

I’m not blaming HRC. I’m just saying in general we do better when the message is received of a better tomorrow. I blame voters not her who bought Trumps bs for why we are where we are and selfish purist lefties and Russian agitprop.

We were also in a country where a political record was a detriment, baggage that could be cherry-picked to use against a candidate.

Up against a private “businessman” with no record of public service and not willing to release tax records of his “private” service.

494
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:48:13am

re: #492 Citizen K

Gore got fucked over by the centrist camp in the Dems pleading with him to distance himself from Clinton, egged on by a media who wanted to hang Clinton and impeachment around Gore’s neck, all the while disingenuously tarring him with some of the dumbest shit and promoting W with that ‘aw-shucks’ ‘compassionate conservatism’ hagiographic bullshit. Like, how much of the damage done to Clinton and Gore was via Dems who took the GOP’s bad faith BS at faith value and became very very ‘concerned’?

Maybe but Gore still should bear some responsibility by his choices. And back then he was an imo too cautious centrist. I don’t dislike the man or not appreciate his years of service but I think he should and could have been more bold.

495
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:49:26am

re: #492 Citizen K

Don’t forget the endless hatchet job the media did on Gore led by the likes of Maureen Dowd, Frank Rich, David Browder and Tweety!

496
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:49:28am

re: #493 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

We were also in a country where a political record was a detriment, baggage that could be cherry-picked to use against a candidate.

Up against a private “businessman” with no record of public service and not willing to release tax records of his “private” service.

After what I read about Trump wanting to dismantle the US-Japan treaty made post WWII, I want more history majors and less stuck up MBAs in office than ever.

497
PhillyPretzel  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:49:47am

re: #493 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Even with all that HRC had going against her I still voted for her and would do so again.

498
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:50:11am

re: #495 Joe Bacon 🌹

Don’t forget the endless hatchet job the media did on Gore led by the likes of Maureen Dowd, Frank Rich, David Browder and Tweety!

Definitely that too. I’m not blaming Gore for 2000. Just musing that he could have done better.

499
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:50:16am

re: #488 HappyWarrior

I’d happily go back to 2016 but I hope Biden is astute enough to know that we’ll find ourselves in the same mess if we just naively treat the entire political right as just people we disagree with and Trump is a freak accident.

I’d argue that he is astute enough…which is why he is running on such a platform. Present Trump as an aberration, that Americans are “better than that,” and argue that a vote for him in 2016 can be forgiven if you get out there next year and vote against him. And it’s why I worry about his winning the nomination, because 2018 wasn’t about turning Trump voters against him as much as it was getting those people who stayed home 2 years prior to the polls. He’s gonna need to find something to offer to those folks, because they don’t feel a need to seek absolution.

500
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:51:39am

re: #497 PhillyPretzel

Even with all that HRC had going against her I still voted for her and would do so again.

She would have been the best President of all those who ran three years ago and it’s not close. Better than Trump obviously but better than Bernie and of course the other Republicans. She’s smart. She knows policy.

501
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:52:17am

re: #499 Targetpractice

I’d argue that he is astute enough…which is why he is running on such a platform. Present Trump as an aberration, that Americans are “better than that,” and argue that a vote for him in 2016 can be forgiven if you get out there next year and vote against him. And it’s why I worry about his winning the nomination, because 2018 wasn’t about turning Trump voters against him as much as it was getting those people who stayed home 2 years prior to the polls. He’s gonna need to find something to offer to those folks, because they don’t feel a need to seek absolution.

True.

502
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:52:26am

503
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:52:33am

re: #461 The Vicious Babushka

I would love to see him wheeled out on a handcart in a straitjacket and face mask, Hannibal Lechter style.

the white house ushers (who pack up the white house the morning of the inauguration) will take the chair he’s sitting in, put it and him on a dolly, and trundle him out

and by inauguration time, it’s too late - congress has certified the vote and roberts will administer the oath

its between election day and 1/3/21 when congress votes, that any possible shenanigans could take place

504
PhillyPretzel  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:53:27am

re: #500 HappyWarrior

She has political experience. That is what should have been the point. DT has nothing.

505
Citizen K  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:54:00am

re: #494 HappyWarrior

Maybe but Gore still should bear some responsibility by his choices. And back then he was an imo too cautious centrist. I don’t dislike the man or not appreciate his years of service but I think he should and could have been more bold.

But that’s the thing, Gore already consistently gets the lionshare of the blame and generally has become considered too toxic a political figure to dare be seen with, save the blip of good will he got with An Inconvenient Truth that was jiujitsued to make him even more toxic than ever.

Even among us, the Dems’ general defensive crouch, and willingness to run away from Clinton, combined with the toxic, adversarial media atmosphere, doesn’t get enough blame compared to Gore himself. And it’s the same sort of willingness to find the one single scapegoat for the election that I see in the continued rush to vilify Hillary for 2016 even among the left.

506
Barefoot Grin  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:54:11am

re: #496 HappyWarrior

After what I read about Trump wanting to dismantle the US-Japan treaty made post WWII, I want more history majors and less stuck up MBAs in office than ever.

I know that Trump has said before he’d withdraw from alliances if he felt America was being ‘treated unfairly,’ but this is obviously so wrongheaded from a geo-political standpoint that I can’t help but think he’s taking his advice mostly from Xi, Putin, and Kim. It’s so fucking dangerous. Hello nuclear Japan!

507
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:55:51am

that’s part of a thread by Heath

508
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:55:56am

re: #493 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

We were also in a country where a political record was a detriment, baggage that could be cherry-picked to use against a candidate.

Up against a private “businessman” with no record of public service and not willing to release tax records of his “private” service.

So lets seriously consider a dozen or more baby candidates who couldn’t find the Washington Monument with a tour guide.

509
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:59:18am

re: #484 Targetpractice

To me, the entire appeal of a Biden nomination rests in this idea that he can win over voters with the promise of “turning back the clock.” But not in the way that wingnuts fantasize about when they think they can just undo the entire 20th century. No, Biden’s appeal is this idea that we can just “erase” the Trump years and return things back to status quo ante bellum circa 2016. That we can fix the whole sodding mess by reversing Trump’s policy changes, dismantle legislation like the Trump Tax Cuts, and get things back to where they were when Obama left office.

And the reason for that appeal is because people want to act like Trump’s election was a “mistake,” an experiment that failed and that is best swept under the rug. Sort of like how Obama got elected in the first place, this driving desire to try to reach back to “better times” by acting as if the last election just didn’t happen. And that’s what Biden is offering them, to make that run for the presidency that he bowed out of in 2016 and continue the “good times.”

- biden’s current, campaign approach is as you say, with the the purpose to attract enough of ‘those’ voters to win
- should he win, he likely won’t govern “from the past”

a guess
based on nothing
biden is ‘gaffe prone’. he’s not stupid

510
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 7:59:19am

re: #507 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

that’s part of a thread by Heath

[Embedded content]

Speaking of that shitstain, I saw this tweet earlier:

The motion to dismiss is right out of the Trump playbook. Hunter is alleging that a shadowy cabal of people in the United States Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of California (SDCA) is out to get him because he was an early endorser of Trump’s campaign for president.

His shocking evidence? That two assistant U.S. attorneys — Alana Robinson and Emily Allen — attended a fundraiser for Clinton in 2015 and did not donate any money.

You read that right. Hunter’s motion to dismiss, or in the alternative, that the entire SDCA be recused, is based on the fact that some these attorneys did not give Hillary Clinton money. In Hunter’s mind, the fact they didn’t donate is proof they are out to get him.

511
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:00:00am

re: #487 Decatur Deb

We have been on knife-edge politics since Reagan. Any one screw-up can throw the country off by 90 degrees. Fumbling with a blue dress was enough to finish Gore. A half-dozen small errors scuttled HRC. That’s the reality of a schizo electorate.

when d’s vote, d’s win
register more d’s

512
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:00:56am

re: #506 Barefoot Grin

I know that Trump has said before he’d withdraw from alliances if he felt America was being ‘treated unfairly,’ but this is obviously so wrongheaded from a geo-political standpoint that I can’t help but think he’s taking his advice mostly from Xi, Putin, and Kim. It’s so fucking dangerous. Hello nuclear Japan!

It’s such ignorant bs. Trump thinks nationalism is wonderful. I see nationalism and I see the chief perpetrator of two world wars and many proxy wars in the years in between and sense. As I said, more history students, less asshole businessmen who got where they got by knowing the right people and having the $$$

513
PhillyPretzel  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:01:25am

re: #511 DangerMan

That and try to get some R’s to vote D.

514
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:01:47am

re: #491 HappyWarrior

I’m not blaming HRC. I’m just saying in general we do better when the message is received of a better tomorrow. I blame voters not her who bought Trumps bs for why we are where we are and selfish purist lefties and Russian agitprop.

you either believe in liberty and justice for all
or you dont

(it’s right there in the pledge, after the god reference)

515
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:02:20am

re: #509 DangerMan

- biden’s current, campaign approach is as you say, with the the purpose to attract enough of ‘those’ voters to win
- should he win, he likely won’t govern “from the past”

a guess
based on nothing
biden is ‘gaffe prone’. he’s not stupid

Nah he’s not dumb at all. I would never call Biden stupid. Just some differences in how to get to point B.

516
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:02:51am

re: #511 DangerMan

when d’s vote, d’s win
register more d’s

Registering (likely) Dems is my hobby. Getting them to turn out when their messiah isn’t nominated is the hard part.

517
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:03:38am

re: #497 PhillyPretzel

Even with all that HRC had going against her I still voted for her and would do so again.

you, me and 3 million more than he got

518
PhillyPretzel  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:05:09am

OT I just got an email from amazon. I just got my refund. That was very fast. I just dropped the package off at U of Penn at 815 am and now I have my money back.

519
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:05:39am

re: #504 PhillyPretzel

She has political experience. That is what should have been the point. DT has nothing.

he proves it every day
and there’s still people who say “she would be worse”

520
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:05:58am

re: #505 Citizen K

But that’s the thing, Gore already consistently gets the lionshare of the blame and generally has become considered too toxic a political figure to dare be seen with, save the blip of good will he got with An Inconvenient Truth that was jiujitsued to make him even more toxic than ever.

Even among us, the Dems’ general defensive crouch, and willingness to run away from Clinton, combined with the toxic, adversarial media atmosphere, doesn’t get enough blame compared to Gore himself. And it’s the same sort of willingness to find the one single scapegoat for the election that I see in the continued rush to vilify Hillary for 2016 even among the left.

So I’m clear. I respect Gore and think his image should be better. The attacks on him in 2000 and since are stupid but I have no qualms criticizing the Lieberman pick or distancing himself from a well liked two term President. He’s an admirable guy, a public servant of the best kind but he did make mistakes. Ultimately he had shortcomings that were unfortunately and unfairly exploited by both the media and oppposition.

521
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:07:10am

re: #506 Barefoot Grin

I know that Trump has said before he’d withdraw from alliances if he felt America was being ‘treated unfairly,’ but this is obviously so wrongheaded from a geo-political standpoint that I can’t help but think he’s taking his advice mostly from Xi, Putin, and Kim. It’s so fucking dangerous. Hello nuclear Japan!

he only sees the asymmetrical dollars
he has no clue what they ‘buy’

522
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:09:44am

re: #508 Decatur Deb

So lets seriously consider a dozen or more baby candidates who couldn’t find the Washington Monument with a tour guide.

- it’s the process. gotta let it play out
- mostly no one is paying attention at this stage
- those who are, know that easily 15 of them will see the light and be gone before people do start paying attention

this is not the 2016 republican clown car show

523
Teukka  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:10:21am
524
Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:13:03am

re: #523 Teukka

It’s obviously much easier to summon outrage about them being called “concentration camps” than it is to be outraged about the conditions there.

That it’s also a grift making someone a bundle of money on other people’s pain is secondary to that mistreatment.

525
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:13:44am

re: #522 DangerMan

- it’s the process. gotta let it play out
- mostly no one is paying attention at this stage
- those who are, know that easily 15 of them will see the light and be gone before people do start paying attention

this is not the 2016 republican clown car show

Don’t want to see plausible winners brought down by a pack of hamsters.

526
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:13:58am

re: #513 PhillyPretzel

That and try to get some R’s to vote D.

i am fine with this too
though in general, I feel it’s easier to expand the pie than to fight over the crumbs

- it’s easier to register 10 dems than convert one R
- it’s easier to get 10 registered dems who havent been voting out to vote than convert one R

527
sagehen  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:15:17am

re: #419 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Except… she really is his type

528
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:15:43am

When it comes to NATO or to the Japanese defense treaty, what it really comes back to is the idea that Trump has no direct control over the countries on the other side of the equation. He is not a coalition builder, he is not a multinationalist, and he’s damned sure not a diplomat. What he is is a control freak and he absolutely hates the idea of others at the table having a voice equal to his own. So when he goes to NATO or to Tokyo and presses them to support his latest war, he expects immediate and total compliance, he doesn’t expect to actually have to make a case for war.

529
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:15:47am

re: #526 DangerMan

i am fine with this too
though in general, I feel it’s easier to expand the pie than to fight over the crumbs

- it’s easier to register 10 dems than convert one R
- it’s easier to get 10 registered dems who havent been voting out to vote than convert one R

It’s difficult as hell to make sure that those registered Democratic voters will be allowed to vote once they reach the poles…

530
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:17:29am

re: #527 sagehen

Except… she really is his type

they know that once it degenerates into a matter of he-said-she-said that they have won the skirmish…

531
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:17:44am

re: #516 Decatur Deb

Registering (likely) Dems is my hobby. Getting them to turn out when their messiah isn’t nominated is the hard part.

it’s yeoman’s work you do.

i’ve taken the second approach - getting them to turn out
I do Postcards To Voters

any race, anywhere that needs help

532
gocart mozart  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:18:11am
533
PhillyPretzel  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:19:04am

re: #526 DangerMan

True but there are R’s like myself who were completely turned off by DT. After he penned the press at one of his rallies I decided to vote for HRC.

534
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:19:26am

re: #532 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

As opposed to the right wing assholes who equate states rights white supremacists with federalists who promote diversity.

535
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:19:52am

re: #524 Feline Fearless Leader

It’s obviously much easier to summon outrage about them being called “concentration camps” than it is to be outraged about the conditions there.

That it’s also a grift making someone a bundle of money on other people’s pain is secondary to that mistreatment.

536
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:20:11am

re: #533 PhillyPretzel

True but there are R’s like myself who were completely turned off by DT. After he penned the press at one of his rallies I decided to vote for HRC.

It was an easy vote for me. He was NOT qualified then or now.

537
BigPapa  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:20:14am

Triple Clown FTW

538
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:20:43am

re: #531 DangerMan

it’s yeoman’s work you do.

i’ve taken the second approach - getting them to turn out
I do Postcards To Voters

any race, anywhere that needs help

Our last HoR campaign used hand-written notes (mostly TYs), done by the volunteer office-minders like Wife. I was excused when they saw my scrawl.

539
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:23:30am

re: #525 Decatur Deb

Don’t want to see plausible winners brought down by a pack of hamsters.

of course not
there are a lot of vagaries and intangibles this early on in the process and sometimes, yeah, shit happens

i like to think the cream almost always rises

(how pollyanna and curmudgeon both live in my head is complicated and messy)

540
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:24:11am

At least McCain, I could acknowledge understood policy and what being President means. Sure disagreed with on policy and how he’d govern but he wasn’t running with a blindfold insisting he knew better than everyone else. Trump’s political career has been about one thing, promoting Trump.

541
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:25:40am

re: #528 Targetpractice

When it comes to NATO or to the Japanese defense treaty, what it really comes back to is the idea that Trump has no direct control over the countries on the other side of the equation. He is not a coalition builder, he is not a multinationalist, and he’s damned sure not a diplomat. What he is is a control freak and he absolutely hates the idea of others at the table having a voice equal to his own. So when he goes to NATO or to Tokyo and presses them to support his latest war, he expects immediate and total compliance, he doesn’t expect to actually have to make a case for war.

ie get approval

the fear of course is the opposite - being told “no”, ie losing

542
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:27:22am

re: #541 DangerMan

ie get approval

the fear of course is the opposite - being told “no”, ie losing

Which is why he admires autocrats. Putin doesn’t have to respect judges or the Duma. But Trudeau who he disdains does with his judiciary and parliament.

543
lawhawk  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:28:00am

re: #530 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

they know that once it degenerates into a matter of he-said-she-said that they have won the skirmish…

It’s a he said versus he said and she said and she said and she said x 20.

Trump is a self-admitted sex predator whose Access Hollywood video corroborates what these 22 women have said. Trump grabs them and engages in sexual assaults because he knows he can get away with it.

544
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:29:03am

Hooray and thank you all! 120K updings!!! A brief breather, then onto 125K, which will put me halfway to my lifetime goal of 250K

545
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:29:36am

re: #543 lawhawk

It’s a he said versus he said and she said and she said and she said x 20.

Trump is a self-admitted sex predator whose Access Hollywood video corroborates what these 22 women have said. Trump grabs them and engages in sexual assaults because he knows he can get away with it.

And he has. He’s treated women especially like shit his entire miserable existence

546
lawhawk  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:30:00am
547
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:30:23am

Hope we does win—the primary.

Opinion | Roy Moore is going to win

For better or worse, Alabama voters HATE being told who to vote for. Even if they’re constantly being fooled into voting for criminals, con men and carnival barkers, they like to believe that they’re the ones making the decision.

alreporter.com

548
PhillyPretzel  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:30:23am

re: #544 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Congratulations. I am very happy for you. :)

549
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:30:26am

re: #533 PhillyPretzel

True but there are R’s like myself who were completely turned off by DT. After he penned the press at one of his rallies I decided to vote for HRC.

in general I don’t care about political affiliations. I almost don’t care who you vote for. I care how you decide who to vote for. how you develop that position, how you make your evaluations and decisions.

The process - the critical thinking, in gathering info, acceptance of what you hear and see, that is more of a window on who you are (and aren’t) than anything else.

as to voting in general, it’s a numbers game. im not all that profound, i just think in terms of basic marketing.

550
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:32:36am

re: #538 Decatur Deb

Our last HoR campaign used hand-written notes (mostly TYs), done by the volunteer office-minders like Wife. I was excused when they saw my scrawl.

when you sign up for postcards, you have to send a writing sample. no typing or electronic printing.

i thought they would reject me for sure. i never got better than a “D” in penmanship.

551
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:33:38am

re: #546 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Let’s put your grandkids in cells and see if you’re so cool with it then you inbred fuck.

552
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:34:37am

re: #546 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Ah, so we’ve found a new shade of victim blaming: “IF THEY DIDN’T WANT THIS, THEY COULD JUST LEAVE!!!”

553
lawhawk  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:35:02am

re: #551 HappyWarrior

Let’s put your grandkids in cells and see if you’re so cool with it then you inbred fuck.

All these GOP extremists who say that they aren’t concentration camps or prisons, should spend a night there.

They too would be crying for their mommies.

554
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:36:26am

re: #553 lawhawk

All these GOP extremists who say that they aren’t concentration camps or prisons, should spend a night there.

They too would be crying for their mommies.

These are the same clowns who laughed off Abu Ghraib as harmless old fun and whose idea of torture comes from Jack fucking Bauer.

555
sagehen  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:36:53am

re: #492 Citizen K

Gore got fucked over by the centrist camp in the Dems pleading with him to distance himself from Clinton, egged on by a media who wanted to hang Clinton and impeachment around Gore’s neck, all the while disingenuously tarring him with some of the dumbest shit and promoting W with that ‘aw-shucks’ ‘compassionate conservatism’ hagiographic bullshit. Like, how much of the damage done to Clinton and Gore was via Dems who took the GOP’s bad faith BS at faith value and became very very ‘concerned’?

How quickly we forget Ralph Nader and Susan Sarandon and Michael Moore.

556
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:37:00am

re: #547 Decatur Deb

Hope we does win—the primary.

Opinion | Roy Moore is going to win

alreporter.com

i remind myself daily that one of life’s big illusions is that we are even temporarily in control

alabama might wanna give me a call. i can explain

557
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:37:44am

The most cowardly creature is a sheltered Republican who is where he is due to no real skills just being born white, straight, & possessing a penis.

558
Citizen K  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:38:03am

re: #553 lawhawk

All these GOP extremists who say that they aren’t concentration camps or prisons, should spend a night there.

They too would be crying for their mommies.

But that’s the thing, that’d then just be them suffering.

They don’t care if it’s brown people suffering because they ‘deserve’ it. The only way they’ll change their mind about the camps is if onlywhite people are being held there the same way. Long as there’s brown suffering involved, they’re willing to look the other way and make it a case-by-case thing instead.

559
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:38:14am

re: #546 lawhawk

Rep. Burgess on conditions in migrant camps: “You know what? There’s not a lock on the door. Any child is free to leave at anytime, but they don’t. You know why? Because they are well taken care of.”

so anyone can drive down there with buses and take them out?

560
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:39:11am

re: #555 sagehen

How quickly we forget Ralph Nader and Susan Sarandon and Michael Moore.

Michael Moore was the one who warned us that Trump could win. I ignored him at the time, but he was right: it was all a matter of mathematics. All Trump had to do was to carry all the states that Romney won in 2012 (all but a given) and then get the four Rust Belt states of PA, OH, MI and WI.

And that is where the GOP (and their confederates) concentrated their efforts and succeeded.

561
PhillyPretzel  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:39:16am

re: #559 DangerMan

That is what he is implying. Maybe someone should try it.

562
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:39:40am

re: #557 HappyWarrior

The most cowardly creature is a sheltered Republican who is where he is due to no real skills just being born white, appearing straight, & possessing a penis.

just helping out

563
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:39:49am

re: #555 sagehen

How quickly we forget Ralph Nader and Susan Sarandon and Michael Moore.

Yep and it’s why I don’t take either seriously. Yeah Moore saw Trump was viable politically and then he kneecapped the best choice against him because she wasn’t pure enough for his asshole self. It’s easy to be pure when you’re loaded like those three.

564
lawhawk  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:39:55am

No one can trust anything Trumpworld says. And the fact that the Iranians picked up the downed drone suggests that the Iranians were not only closer to the drone when it was downed, but that it may have been within Iranian airspace and waters when it was hit and crashed.

565
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:41:04am

If the kids are free to leave at any time, then why should we believe that keeping them penned is necessary? If they are such a non-issue that they can walk out the front gate whenever they wish, why not just stick them with relatives or friends in the US while their parents plead their case for asylum?

The answer, of course, is if they’re not kept in cages…then the GOP’s buddies in the private prison industry can’t make a fortune “housing” them.

566
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:41:43am

re: #560 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Michael Moore was the one who warned us that Trump could win. I ignored him at the time, but he was right: it was all a matter of mathematics. All Trump had to do was to carry all the states that Romney won in 2012 (all but a given) and then get the four Rust Belt states of PA, OH, MI and WI.

And that is where the GOP (and their confederates) concentrated their efforts and succeeded.

He was right but he’s still a purist asshole who learned all the wrong lessons from 2000. Same as Sarandon and Nader. I think part of them enjoys the Republicans being in power for the same reason right wing radio enjoys the Dems being in power.

567
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:42:09am

re: #565 Targetpractice

If the kids are free to leave at any time, then why should we believe that keeping them penned is necessary? If they are such a non-issue that they can walk out the front gate whenever they wish, why not just stick them with relatives or friends in the US while their parents plead their case for asylum?

The answer, of course, is if they’re not kept in cages…then the GOP’s buddies in the private prison industry can’t make a fortune “housing” them.

the other answer is they are not free to leave

568
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:42:22am

re: #562 DangerMan

just helping out

True

569
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:43:21am

re: #566 HappyWarrior

He was right but he’s still a purist asshole who learned all the wrong lessons from 2000. Same as Sarandon and Nader. I think part of them enjoys the Republicans being in power for the same reason right wing radio enjoys the Dems being in power.

Of course, and I must admit that ignored his warnings, just considering him an annoying gadfly.

But if MM had it figured out, then the GOP also had it figured out long before that. All mathematics: carry PA, MI, WI and OH and you don’t even need Florida…

570
wrenchwench  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:44:42am

re: #564 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

No one can trust anything Trumpworld says. And the fact that the Iranians picked up the downed drone suggests that the Iranians were not only closer to the drone when it was downed, but that it may have been within Iranian airspace and waters when it was hit and crashed.

Oh, man.

Trump or Putin, Trump or Putin…

There’s no ‘prize’, because the answer is always so complicated.

571
gocart mozart  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:45:24am
572
PhillyPretzel  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:46:56am

re: #571 gocart mozart

And I know quite a few of my fellow R’s who believe that.

573
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:49:18am

re: #555 sagehen

How quickly we forget Ralph Nader and Susan Sarandon and Michael Moore.

Add Phil Donahue.

574
lawhawk  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:51:55am
575
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:52:02am

re: #573 Joe Bacon 🌹

Add Phil Donahue.

What frustrates me is they all should know better.

576
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:52:12am

re: #572 PhillyPretzel

And I know quite a few of my fellow R’s who believe that.

How can you even hope to engage people like that?

577
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:52:46am

re: #574 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Yeah he’s another Republican hypocrite criminal weasel who gets political power demonizing gay people.

578
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:54:25am

re: #574 lawhawk

So this latest DoJ file reveals that Duncan Hunter had an affair with at least three different lobbyists, one of his own staff members, and an aide to a member of the GOP leadership team.

Mrs. Betty Bowers
@BettyBowers
“I support the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), which defines marriage as the legal union between one man and one woman.”

— Duncan Hunter, on his “Family Values”

c’mon.
he’s one man married to one woman //

579
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:57:51am

Re: Michael Jackson

I can respect his talent as a performer, but that doesn’t change the fact that he was a deeply disturbed, fucked up human being.

580
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 8:58:18am

re: #576 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

How can you even hope to engage people like that?

[Embedded content]

people who draw their conclusions based on faith, who see the world in terms of ‘that which cannot be proved’, can’t (and generally won’t) be reasoned with.

there is no discussion or persuasion or changing of minds.

because the source of their ‘knowledge’ by definition can’t be wrong

581
Dave In Austin  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:00:45am
582
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:04:27am

re: #486 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Think about how most people will not get wrapped up in the election until next spring/summer, for chrissakes.

Yep, and think about the implications for getting children out of cages, bills passed, impeachment, interfering with Trump’s plans for Iran, and a whole lot more.

583
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:07:15am

I’ll start paying closer attention when the Dem field thins out a bit but there are a few I keep an eye on now (Warren, Buttigieg, Harris and Beto).

584
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:14:11am

re: #576 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

How can you even hope to engage people like that?

[Embedded content]

Punch them in the gut and ask them to believe they didn’t get hit.

585
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:15:14am

re: #578 DangerMan

c’mon.
he’s one man married to one woman //

“The commandment says that YOU shall not commit adulty. It doesn’t say anything about me.” - Hunter

586
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:18:07am

re: #576 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

How can you even hope to engage people like that?

[Embedded content]

The funny thing about that is the first recorded science experiment (probably not actually the first, but you get the idea) is in the old testament: One of the prophets challenges one of the other religions to prove their god exists vs God by setting up pyres and asking the gods to light them.

587
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:18:46am

re: #585 Belafon

“The commandment says that YOU shall not commit adulty. It doesn’t say anything about me.” - Hunter

then you just go throw yourself at god’s mercy and repent and he will forgive your weaknesses and sinful transgressions.

what is unforgiveable is allowing abortion and gay marriage!!!

588
DodgerFan1988  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:20:14am

This is a crime against humanity.

589
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:21:39am

re: #588 DodgerFan1988

[Embedded content]

This is a crime against humanity.

Where are the fucking bishops?

590
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:25:47am

re: #588 DodgerFan1988

See and this is the most fucked up part.

The only reason ICE/CBP would turn away free help and supplies is because they PURPOSELY WANT THESE KIDS TO BE MISERABLE AND SUFFER.

I get the need for security, but it would be fucking easy enough to scan the supplies, vet them as legit and start distributing.

This is deliberate cruelty.

591
lawhawk  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:27:49am
592
Jay C  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:31:24am

re: #591 lawhawk

Let’s just assume the last explanation: it’s the easiest….

593
Targetpractice  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:34:16am

re: #591 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Hell, wanna really bake his noodle? Tell him that the King James Bible was printed in English simply because the man whose name is now bears didn’t like the fact that the Bible was only printed in Latin for ages so that the clergy could maintain control over their flocks by telling them what it “said.”

594
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:35:54am

re: #591 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Jesus didn’t speak English you ignorant toad.

595
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:36:52am

It astounds me how little self proclaimed Christians know about their religion’s history.

596
Dr. Matt  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:39:56am

What was the statement by HRC regarding Donnie being easily triggered?

597
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:39:59am

re: #411 HappyWarrior

Hi all. Not gonna be on as much in the weekdays since I have a new job with an EPA contractor doing data entry.

What happened to your para-legal work?

598
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:42:17am

re: #597 Colère Tueur de Lapin

What happened to your para-legal work?

Went a new and less stress filled temporary route since I’m doing graduate level classes.

599
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:43:14am

re: #594 HappyWarrior

Jesus didn’t speak English you ignorant toad.

He did when he was talking to his dad!

600
William Lewis  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:44:10am

re: #593 Targetpractice

Hell, wanna really bake his noodle? Tell him that the King James Bible was printed in English simply because the man whose name is now bears didn’t like the fact that the Bible was only printed in Latin for ages so that the clergy could maintain control over their flocks by telling them what it “said.”

Actually there was a. Bible in English commonly accepted and available. The Geneva Bible however was full of anti monarchy footnotes that James I hated. So he ordered a translation sans footnotes. The government then bought lots to put in all the churches, people got used to its more archaic language than the Geneva Bible and soon it was the survivor.

601
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:44:38am

re: #595 HappyWarrior

It astounds me how little self proclaimed Christians know about their religion’s history.

If they knew it, they would have to come to terms with the fact that other civilizations already existed when Adam and Eve formed in Eden.

602
William Lewis  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:47:05am

re: #601 Belafon

If they knew it, they would have to come to terms with the fact that other civilizations already existed when Adam and Eve formed in Eden.

Not all of us need to believe that our myths are literally true. ;)

603
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:47:39am

re: #601 Belafon

If they knew it, they would have to come to terms with the fact that other civilizations already existed when Adam and Eve formed in Eden.

Literalism is just foolish whether we’re talking scripture or government documents.

604
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:49:07am

re: #602 William Lewis

Not all of us need to believe that our myths are literally true. ;)

Yes exactly. They’re stories. I don’t agree with all of them but some of them still have a lesson 2000 years later. Why not go with that instead of some stupid nationalism where your religion’s main guy sounds like a speaker at the RNC.

605
William Lewis  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:49:54am

Meanwhile as i sit here with my ham sandwich, I called my diocese to demand to know why Bishop Jay hasn’t spoken out officially about the concentration camps. I’ll be interested in seeing if it sparks anything.

606
Ferdinand  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:51:36am

re: #591 lawhawk

That’s a quote from a Christopher Hitchens book, God Is Not Great. Apocryphal?

607
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:55:23am

I recall during the discussion of public posting of the Ten Commandments, GW Bush spoke out in favor of it. Some journalist, obviously a smart-ass with a few semesters of comparative religious studies under his belt, asked him “Which translation?”, to which Dubya answered “The standard one.”

He left without expounding on the matter, but I expect that to his pea brain, he was referring to the King James Thou-Shalt/Not version.

608
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:55:57am

re: #594 HappyWarrior

Jesus didn’t speak English you ignorant toad.

And he wasn’t a square jawed white guy with long hair and a neatly trimmed goatee.

609
lawhawk  Jun 25, 2019 • 9:58:53am
610
lawhawk  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:00:34am
611
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:00:43am

re: #588 DodgerFan1988

[Embedded content]

This is a crime against humanity.

we dont accept donations and they are free to leave

this is evil incarnate

612
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:01:49am

re: #609 lawhawk

FLOTUS Melania Trump says her spokeswoman, Steph Grisham, will be the next White House press secretary. -

I assume she tried to hide in the wardrobe but was discovered…

613
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:02:05am

re: #610 lawhawk

Great, so now we’ll get another “Acting” even worse than he is.

This is such a fucking disaster.

614
William Lewis  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:02:40am

re: #608 Eclectic Cyborg

And he wasn’t a square jawed white guy with long hair and a neatly trimmed goatee.

Naw. That’s Ian. Gun Jesus of Forgotten Weapons:D

615
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:04:23am

re: #610 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Someone even worse is in the wings.

616
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:04:45am

re: #607 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I recall during the discussion of public posting of the Ten Commandments, GW Bush spoke out in favor of it. Some journalist, obviously a smart-ass with a few semesters of comparative religious studies under his belt, asked him “Which translation?”, to which Dubya answered “The standard one.”

He left without expounding on the matter, but I expect that to his pea brain, he was referring to the King James Thou-Shalt/Not version.

more basic question is “whose list of 10”?

617
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:06:23am

re: #610 lawhawk

I would love to see 50,000 people swarm that place and tear it apart and remove those kids.

618
William Lewis  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:07:55am

re: #607 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

He probably uses the NIV (New International Version) as it is preferred by evangelical types.

619
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:08:56am

re: #605 William Lewis

Meanwhile as i sit here with my ham sandwich, I called my diocese to demand to know why Bishop Jay hasn’t spoken out officially about the concentration camps. I’ll be interested in seeing if it sparks anything.

Went to check on my buddy O’Malley. He made a fairly bland speech a few weeks ago comparing the kids on the border to the Irish children who died from the orphan ships during the Hunger. Needs to update with a bit more kick-ass.

“We pray that immigrants coming today will receive a welcome, a welcome from a people that have made that difficult journey and whose families have suffered, and who are open to being brothers and sisters to those who are arriving from every part of this globe,” a prayer that drew applause from the crowd.

bostonirish.com

620
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:19:08am

re: #618 William Lewis

He probably uses the NIV (New International Version) as it is preferred by evangelical types.

Is that the one where the ‘translation’ isn’t exact, but more of a ‘this is what is meant’? Basically, an interpretation of a translation so the reader doesn’t have to do any thinking or analysis.

621
sagehen  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:20:46am

re: #596 Dr. Matt

What was the statement by HRC regarding Donnie being easily triggered?

622
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:21:48am

re: #620 Colère Tueur de Lapin

Is that the one where the ‘translation’ isn’t exact, but more of a ‘this is what is meant’? Basically, an interpretation of a translation so the reader doesn’t have to do any thinking or analysis.

No translation is exact. The NIV attempted, back when it was first created, to at least speak in modern language.

623
danarchy  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:39:41am

re: #594 HappyWarrior

Jesus didn’t speak English you ignorant toad.

People need to be a little less credulous. That is a quote that was first (mis)attributed to the goveernor of texas in 1924.

624
BlueGrl21  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:47:18am

re: #622 Belafon

No translation is exact. The NIV attempted, back when it was first created, to at least speak in modern language.

I have a Bible that has multiple translations of the text next to it. You may have one “paragraph” per page with the rest being nothing but translations, with some translations having additional translations of the languages, such as one word in Greek has two different meanings which could apply. I read it that way deliberately.

There is no one Bible with a definitive translation.

Some of us are more educated about our faith trappings than others and some find our faith in works, not books or dogma.

625
Eventual Carrion  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:21:28am

re: #546 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

So we could get a group together and walk in and take them out with us? Is that what this shitstain mental midget is saying.

626
Dr. Matt  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:21:35am

re: #621 sagehen

THANKS!

“A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons.” —Hillary
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) July 29, 2016


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