Some More News: The Many Ways in Which Ben Shapiro is Bad and Should Never Be Taken Seriously By Anyone

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Is Ben Shapiro a liar or just lazy and dumb? The answer may definitely not surprise you!

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162 comments

1
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:08:05am

Pulling up from downstairs:

re: #617 Belafon

I would love to see 50,000 people swarm that place and tear it apart and remove those kids.

Heck, I’d volunteer to be one of them.

2
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:10:15am

re: #1 Eclectic Cyborg

I would love to see 50,000 people swarm that place and tear it apart and remove those kids.

Heck, I’d volunteer to be one of them.

I just think a large permanent crowd and tent city out front, living in the same conditions as the people inside would be a good optic

3
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:10:19am
4
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:10:52am

re: #3 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Agriculture secretary says U.S. farmers are ‘casualties’ of trade war: CNN

Friendly fire

5
Patricia Kayden  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:11:37am
6
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:12:36am

Midday madness break

7
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:13:47am

re: #3 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Agriculture secretary says U.S. farmers are ‘casualties’ of trade war: CNN reuters.com

that they didnt volunteer for
that they didnt vote for

8
jaunte  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:15:16am
9
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:15:34am

re: #7 DangerMan

that they didnt volunteer for
that they didnt vote for

Rural states voted heavily GOP

Not all of them of course, but I have no sympathy for those who support/ed Trump

10
Ferdinand  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:15:37am

re: #5 Patricia Kayden

Sadly Kevin Drum echoed my thoughts on Carroll and her story yesterday:

“This episode hasn’t gotten an awful lot of attention. This is the first I’ve written about it, for example. Why? I don’t think it has anything to do with media outlets not taking rape allegations seriously. The real answer is almost worse: (a) everybody just assumes the story is true and (b) everybody knows that it will have no effect on either Trump’s fans or his Republican Party colleagues. Trump will issue a pro forma denial; nobody will take it seriously; and that will be that. Just like the other 15 times.“

11
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:16:03am
12
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:17:28am

re: #5 Patricia Kayden

What would it take to make a woman’s accusation of rape front-page news?

A cancelled check from Michael Cohen would help.

13
Charles Johnson  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:18:35am
14
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:19:58am

From below:
re: #618 William Lewis

He probably uses the NIV (New International Version) as it is preferred by evangelical types.

Is that the one where the ‘translation’ isn’t exact, but more of a ‘this is what is meant’? Basically, an interpretation of a translation so the reader doesn’t have to do any thinking or analysis.

15
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:21:59am

re: #7 DangerMan

that they didnt volunteer for
that they didnt vote for

Welllllllllllllllll
A whole lot of them may have voted for it

16
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:22:19am

re: #9 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Rural states voted heavily GOP

Not all of them of course, but I have no sympathy for those who support/ed Trump

oh i know that
i meant they didnt vote for the ‘war’

if you’re gonna call them ‘casualties’, who voted to declare this war?
aint no AUMF to point to

17
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:23:14am

re: #16 DangerMan

oh i know that
i meant they didnt vote for the ‘war’

if you’re gonna call them ‘casualties’, who voted to declare this war?
aint no AUMF to point to

They voted for a man who promised to get “tough on trade” anybody with half a brain could have seen where that would lead

18
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:23:19am

re: #9 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Rural states voted heavily GOP

Not all of them of course, but I have no sympathy for those who support/ed Trump

It kind of makes me wonder how well they manage their farms.

19
Charles Johnson  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:23:25am
20
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:24:09am

re: #16 DangerMan

oh i know that
i meant they didnt vote for the ‘war’

if you’re gonna call them ‘casualties’, who voted to declare this war?
aint no AUMF to point to

“I just voted for Nosferatu. Never expected any bloodsucking.”

21
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:24:12am

re: #14 Colère Tueur de Lapin

From below:

Is that the one where the ‘translation’ isn’t exact, but more of a ‘this is what is meant’? Basically, an interpretation of a translation so the reader doesn’t have to do any thinking or analysis.

No translation is exact. The NIV attempted, back when it was first created, to at least speak in modern language.

22
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:24:29am

re: #7 DangerMan

that they didnt volunteer for
that they didnt vote for

But, they did vote for the orange shit-goblin…

23
goddamnedfrank  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:24:58am
24
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:25:14am

re: #21 Belafon

No translation is exact. The NIV attempted, back when it was first created, to at least speak in modern language.

I understand that, but isn’t the NIV even less literal?

25
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:26:16am

re: #18 Belafon

It kind of makes me wonder how well they manage their farms.

They have a formula based on government agricultural subsidies.

26
Jay C  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:27:02am

re: #16 DangerMan

oh i know that
i meant they didnt vote for the ‘war’

if you’re gonna call them ‘casualties’, who voted to declare this war?
aint no AUMF to point to

Most likely these rural “casualties” of Trump’s trade war believed that the main “front” was going to be the manufacturing sector (i.e. appliances, electronics, the junk they buy cheap at WalMart), and that the fact that China (Dolt 45’s main target) was a huge buyer of bulk grain - which could be a main target of retaliatory tariffs - probably didn’t occur to them.

27
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:32:06am

re: #24 Colère Tueur de Lapin

I understand that, but isn’t the NIV even less literal?

The NIV, in my opinion, got at least the same amount of care that the King James version did. There was a large committe of people from different denominations that came together to discuss translations. They would actually go back to the Hebrew, Greek, and Latin to help in their translations. And they did a lot of praying. Take all of that what you will, but it least had a lot of scholarly types involved.

As an atheist who has read large chunks of both versions, they both have their biases, but the NIV was very much like a bunch of tech companies coming together and finally agreeing on a standard.

28
sagehen  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:33:38am

re: #5 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

I wonder if it would have mattered if she’d come forward in 2016.

29
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:36:35am

re: #20 Decatur Deb

“I just voted for Nosferatu. Never expected any bloodsucking.”

yeah we voted for him
he wasnt supposed to bite us
(he said he wouldnt)

30
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:39:20am

re: #23 goddamnedfrank

Meghan McCain doesn’t want detention centers compared to “torture facilities”—because of her father: “My father couldn’t lift me above his head as a child because of his torture wounds so I do think that hyperbole is important

meghan, use your google. it’s not hyperbole if:

- it is not an exaggeration and it is meant to be taken literally.

31
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:39:42am

re: #28 sagehen

I wonder if it would have mattered if she’d come forward in 2016.

The “He can grab my ____” woman wouldn’t have cared.

32
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:40:43am

re: #30 DangerMan

meghan, use your google. it’s not hyperbole if:

- it is not an exaggeration and it is meant to be taken literally.

Dead is a lot worse than the condition your dad ended up in. And the sick kids probably couldn’t lift their heads either.

33
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:40:46am

re: #26 Jay C

Most likely these rural “casualties” of Trump’s trade war believed that the main “front” was going to be the manufacturing sector (i.e. appliances, electronics, the junk they buy cheap at WalMart), and that the fact that China (Dolt 45’s main target) was a huge buyer of bulk grain - which could be a main target of retaliatory tariffs - probably didn’t occur to them.

precisely

34
Citizen K  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:41:35am

re: #23 goddamnedfrank

35
William Lewis  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:42:25am

re: #14 Colère Tueur de Lapin

No. It’s a real translation, it just presumes that the traditional Christian interpretation of the bible is the only one and none of that inclusive language noise…

36
jaunte  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:44:37am
37
Belafon  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:46:45am

re: #35 William Lewis

No. It’s a real translation, it just presumes that the traditional Christian interpretation of the bible is the only one and none of that inclusive language noise…

A big tell is they didn’t go back to the beginning of Christianity and pull in all of source material. They started with the same material as James.

38
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:47:31am

re: #36 jaunte

TFW you hit “send” on an email to your Republican Senator after poring over every word in excruciating detail, as though there is some magic combination of words that will awaken his decency, but you know that you might as well have directed your desperate pleas to a fucking rock

A rock will move if enough leverage is applied. A GOP Senator will just dig in harder and refuse to be budged.

39
William Lewis  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:51:32am

re: #37 Belafon

I prefer the NRSV and especially love the Jewish Annotated edition of the New Testament edited by Amy-Jill Levine.

40
jaunte  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:51:49am

Meanwhile in Manama

41
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 25, 2019 • 10:54:21am

I’m pretty sure if someone accused Hilary Clinton of rape it would be all over the news everywhere.

42
DodgerFan1988  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:02:19am

Sounds like parody from The Onion but it’s true, Incels are a national security threat.

43
jaunte  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:05:01am
44
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:05:20am

re: #42 DodgerFan1988

Sounds like parody from The Onion but it’s true, Incels are a national security threat.

Considering the armed forces’ rather rocky history of dealing with gender issues, the thought of militant misogynists could do a lot to damage recruiting, morale and readiness.

45
mmmirele  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:07:40am

Looks like a well-known and respected papyrologist from Oxford may have been selling papyri owned by the Egypt Exploration Society to the Green family aka The Museum of the Bible. It’s being investigated.

thedailybeast.com

I would note that another papyrologist, Brent Nongbri, thinks this *might* be complicated by the early history of the EES, where they gave papyri fragments to donors. The EES is opposed to those sales, but they’ve happened…to the Green family, looters of the patrimony of all Christians, indeed of history.

brentnongbri.com

46
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:13:27am

re: #45 mmmirele

Looks like a well-known and respected papyrologist from Oxford may have been selling papyri owned by the Egypt Exploration Society to the Green family aka The Museum of the Bible. It’s being investigated.

thedailybeast.com

I would note that another papyrologist, Brent Nongbri, thinks this *might* be complicated by the early history of the EES, where they gave papyri fragments to donors. The EES is opposed to those sales, but they’ve happened…to the Green family, looters of the patrimony of all Christians, indeed of history.

brentnongbri.com

Maybe they got them at the local Papyrus “Я” Us

47
lawhawk  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:21:11am

Cody definitely gives the definitive fisking of Shapiro. And he’s right that there’s no way that Ben should have the viewership he does when he lies about so much so often, or is just flat out dumb about so much (or both).

Shapiro is a self promoting hack who coats everything with a veneer of fact, but then strays away the first moment he can (often within moments of opening his mouth to talk or tweet, or expressing a thought).

48
lawhawk  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:22:27am
49
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:26:01am

re: #48 lawhawk

In a world full of racist reactionary know nothing GOPers, it really takes something special to stand out. Burgess finally did that something.

I was talking ages ago about how the whole GOP has tuned into an attention-grabbing race to the bottom, the whole point is to piss off liberals or say bad thing about one’s opponents.

But even with Burgess we have not hit bottom

50
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:26:31am

re: #47 lawhawk

Cody definitely gives the definitive fisking of Shapiro. And he’s right that there’s no way that Ben should have the viewership he does when he lies about so much so often, or is just flat out dumb about so much (or both).

Shapiro is a self promoting hack who coats everything with a veneer of fact, but then strays away the first moment he can (often within moments of opening his mouth to talk or tweet, or expressing a thought).

cf: the current president of the united states

51
Jay C  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:26:43am

re: #45 mmmirele

Looks like a well-known and respected papyrologist from Oxford may have been selling papyri owned by the Egypt Exploration Society to the Green family aka The Museum of the Bible. It’s being investigated.

thedailybeast.com

I would note that another papyrologist, Brent Nongbri, thinks this *might* be complicated by the early history of the EES, where they gave papyri fragments to donors. The EES is opposed to those sales, but they’ve happened…to the Green family, looters of the patrimony of all Christians, indeed of history.

brentnongbri.com

At least if the MotB folks are buying under-the-table papyri from a shady Oxford don, they have a reasonable likelihood of getting genuine antiquities. IIRC, the Greens have been suckered on buying numerous “biblical” fakes. To say nothing of the less-than-sterling provenance of some of their acquisitions….

This Dirk Obbink is said to work at the “Sackler Library University of Oxford” - I read it at first as “Sackler Library University of Oxy” — which it probably well may be…

52
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:52:23am

re: #47 lawhawk

Cody definitely gives the definitive fisking of Shapiro. And he’s right that there’s no way that Ben should have the viewership he does when he lies about so much so often, or is just flat out dumb about so much (or both).

Shapiro is a self promoting hack who coats everything with a veneer of fact, but then strays away the first moment he can (often within moments of opening his mouth to talk or tweet, or expressing a thought).

Shapiro is just a slightly above average intellect in the movement that made Rush Limbaugh popular. He’s nowhere as clever, insightful, or witty as he thinks but enough people have told him he’s the right’s new Bill Buckley- another mediocre mind that convinced himself of his intellect by having people jack him off.

53
mmmirele  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:54:11am

re: #14 Colère Tueur de Lapin

From below:

Is that the one where the ‘translation’ isn’t exact, but more of a ‘this is what is meant’? Basically, an interpretation of a translation so the reader doesn’t have to do any thinking or analysis.

Just thought I’d point out that the Calvinist Evangelicals have dumped the NIV for the English Standard Bible, which is a worked over version of the Revised Standard Version. Basically, it’s the “He-Man Woman Haters” Bible and has some strange translation decisions to back up their patriarchal thinking. The men who go to Apologia Church all carry big, black leatherbound ESVs with gilded pages.

Hey, that gives me an idea. Next Sunday maybe I’ll take out a couple or three Bibles when I go protesting. God knows I have several.

54
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:54:18am

re: #52 HappyWarrior

Shapiro is just a slightly above average intellect in the movement that made Rush Limbaugh popular. He’s nowhere as clever, insightful, or witty as he thinks but enough people have told him he’s the right’s new Bill Buckley- another mediocre mind that convinced himself of his intellect by having people jack him off.

He has closely honed rhetorical skills, which is something a law student needs to learn, their job is to prevail in a case, not necessarily to establish facts beyond those that support their client. In this case, the client is the GOP and the Conservative-Fundamentalist movement.

55
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 11:58:53am

re: #54 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

He has closely honed rhetorical skills, which is something a law student needs to learn, their job is to prevail in a case, not necessarily to establish facts beyond those that support their client. In this case, the client is the GOP and the Conservative-Fundamentalist movement.

He would be laughed out of any serious courtroom which is why he’s where he is and not doing litigation.

56
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:06:04pm
57
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:06:59pm

re: #53 mmmirele

Just thought I’d point out that the Calvinist Evangelicals have dumped the NIV for the English Standard Bible, which is a worked over version of the Revised Standard Version. Basically, it’s the “He-Man Woman Haters” Bible and has some strange translation decisions to back up their patriarchal thinking. The men who go to Apologia Church all carry big, black leatherbound ESVs with gilded pages.

Hey, that gives me an idea. Next Sunday maybe I’ll take out a couple or three Bibles when I go protesting. God knows I have several.

I would suggest a print copy of the “Skeptic’s Annotated Bible” (the KJV with annotations and cross-references between all the different contradictions in the Bible - thousands of them) but you might not care for that (I’m sure they wouldn’t).

I gave my wife a print copy of it a couple years ago. She and I use it quite regularly. I would imagine she and I have read more of the Bible than most Christians (cover-to-cover several times, including the mind-numbingly Numbers).

58
Dread Pirate  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:07:26pm
59
The Ghost of Quesos Past  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:08:59pm

re: #52 HappyWarrior

Shapiro is just a slightly above average intellect in the movement that made Rush Limbaugh popular. He’s nowhere as clever, insightful, or witty as he thinks but enough people have told him he’s the right’s new Bill Buckley- another mediocre mind that convinced himself of his intellect by having people jack him off.

He’s got an audience precisely because he’s mediocre and he tells his mediocre audience they’re a priori, universally “smart.”

I mean, there’s geological layers of presumption and base assumptions he’d building on—mostly importantly, who gets to be “rational,” which has no relation to the actual exercise of rationality.

I’m obsessed with the meta trends, but I’d like to note, again, that this is a manifestation of reactionary eschewing the practice of a concept in favor of evoking the authority of a concept. Because stripped down conservatism still is ultimately about the assumption of inherent hierarchy, and justification of inherent hierarchy requires fixed traits.

60
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:15:16pm

re: #54 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

He has closely honed rhetorical skills, which is something a law student needs to learn, their job is to prevail in a case, not necessarily to establish facts beyond those that support their client. In this case, the client is the GOP and the Conservative-Fundamentalist movement.

The only rhetorical skills he’s honed is very fast speaking, Gish Gallops, and whataboutism. To those who don’t know better, that shows he’s knowledgeable about a subject.

Too bad I can’t get a radio show or podcast. I have the right voice for it (I was once an Armed Forces Radio DJ), and I can actually research a topic before I write it up or talk about it.

Debate unfortunately is not about presenting evidence when it’s for a public audience. It’s for convincing the audience with all sorts of things besides facts, which is where Ben Shapiro excels.

This is why so many atheists were mad at Bill Nye for doing his debate with Ken Ham. The conditions put on that debate were designed to maximise an advantage to Ham. Held in his facility, with no moderators or judges, with an audience picked by Ham’s people.

While the debate conditions required putting the whole debate up as a video, and Ken Ham did do that, what happened is Ham’s people cut out clips of that which made Ham look good (or Nye look bad), and put all those short clips up on YouTube. Creationists and other religious apologists watch those for their arguments to prey on others for their positions.

61
Dr Lizardo  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:18:04pm

re: #51 Jay C

At least if the MotB folks are buying under-the-table papyri from a shady Oxford don, they have a reasonable likelihood of getting genuine antiquities. IIRC, the Greens have been suckered on buying numerous “biblical” fakes. To say nothing of the less-than-sterling provenance of some of their acquisitions….

This Dirk Obbink is said to work at the “Sackler Library University of Oxford” - I read it at first as “Sackler Library University of Oxy” — which it probably well may be…

Heh, just like that “piece of the True Cross” I once saw at a monastery in Cyprus.

It’s been said that if you assembled all the pieces of the True Cross, you’d probably end up with a pretty nice family house.

62
jaunte  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:18:07pm
63
lawhawk  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:18:50pm
64
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:18:53pm

re: #60 Anymouse 🌹

The only rhetorical skills he’s honed is very fast speaking, Gish Gallops, and whataboutism. To those who don’t know better, that shows he’s knowledgeable about a subject.

That is what I meant: he is good at seeming to “win” an argument by applying various rhetorical methods and a lot of intellectual smoke-and-mirrors.

65
jaunte  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:19:02pm

“…So now the agency at whose vicious whims these children are shipped from one hellhole to another and back again has no leadership, only the kind of anonymous chickenshit who says things like this in phone calls with reporters.

In a call with reporters on Tuesday, a Customs and Border Protection official disputed the lawyers’ accounts of conditions for hundreds of migrant children at the facility in Clint, saying that detainees who are housed by the agency are given periodic access to showers, and are offered unlimited snacks throughout the day. That assertion ran contrary to what the lawyers, from some of the nation’s top law schools, said they were told by children. During a court-ordered visit to the facility earlier this month, some children said they had not been allowed to shower in nearly a month, and were so hungry that it had been hard for them to sleep through the night.”

66
KGxvi  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:24:26pm

re: #63 lawhawk

The complaints should each be used as separate articles of impeachment. Or at the very least should be part of any impeachment inquiry.

67
jaunte  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:25:45pm

Note that being ‘offered’ a snack isn’t the same as being ‘given’ a snack.

68
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:26:00pm

re: #59 The Ghost of Quesos Past

He’s got an audience precisely because he’s mediocre and he tells his mediocre audience they’re a priori, universally “smart.”

I mean, there’s geological layers of presumption and base assumptions he’d building on—mostly importantly, who gets to be “rational,” which has no relation to the actual exercise of rationality.

I’m obsessed with the meta trends, but I’d like to note, again, that this is a manifestation of reactionary eschewing the practice of a concept in favor of evoking the authority of a concept. Because stripped down conservatism still is ultimately about the assumption of inherent hierarchy, and justification of inherent hierarchy requires fixed traits.

Ah yes. The whole “You my audience are the real geniuses” tact. Trump does that too. And yeah Ben is an ugly minded reactionary who wishes he could live in the past and oppress people who don’t fit his moral standards. He’s a thoroughly intolerant javksss.

69
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:28:38pm

re: #45 mmmirele

Buying antiquities illegally is a felony in the United States and carries a long jail sentence.

Fortunately the Greens are extremely wealthy so they will never see the inside of a jail, and if someone tries to prosecute them, Christians will rise up claiming persecution.

70
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:31:52pm

re: #53 mmmirele

Just thought I’d point out that the Calvinist Evangelicals have dumped the NIV for the English Standard Bible, which is a worked over version of the Revised Standard Version. Basically, it’s the “He-Man Woman Haters” Bible and has some strange translation decisions to back up their patriarchal thinking. The men who go to Apologia Church all carry big, black leatherbound ESVs with gilded pages.

Hey, that gives me an idea. Next Sunday maybe I’ll take out a couple or three Bibles when I go protesting. God knows I have several.

i am humble in how i flaunt my piety

71
ThomasLite  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:32:22pm

re: #61 Dr Lizardo

Heh, just like that “piece of the True Cross” I once saw at a monastery in Cyprus.

It’s been said that if you assembled all the pieces of the True Cross, you’d probably end up with a pretty nice family house.

Funny but apparently untrue. Don’t have a source for this to hand but apparently all “fragments of the True Cross” together make up only about 40%-ish of what you’d expect an average cross to have been.
Going to go try and find a source now.

72
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:34:37pm

re: #61 Dr Lizardo

Heh, just like that “piece of the True Cross” I once saw at a monastery in Cyprus.

It’s been said that if you assembled all the pieces of the True Cross, you’d probably end up with a pretty nice family house.

The Black Adder: Relics.

73
DodgerFan1988  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:35:13pm

No wonder conservatives don’t give a crap about immigrant children dying, they don’t even give a damn when black kids who are American citizens getting killed.

74
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:36:29pm

re: #57 Anymouse 🌹

I would suggest a print copy of the “Skeptic’s Annotated Bible” (the KJV with annotations and cross-references between all the different contradictions in the Bible - thousands of them) but you might not care for that (I’m sure they wouldn’t).

I gave my wife a print copy of it a couple years ago. She and I use it quite regularly. I would imagine she and I have read more of the Bible than most Christians (cover-to-cover several times, including the mind-numbingly Numbers).

i stick with “What Not to Look for in a Religion”
links to the pdf download

75
Citizen K  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:37:32pm

re: #73 DodgerFan1988

[Embedded content]

No wonder conservatives don’t give a crap about immigrant children dying, they don’t even give a damn when black kids who are American citizens getting killed.

Man, that’s just horrid taste even if you take it at it’s best possible interpretation and act like he’s not gloating over Trayvon’s death.

76
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:38:16pm

re: #71 ThomasLite

Funny but apparently untrue. Don’t have a source for this to hand but apparently all “fragments of the True Cross” together make up only about 40%-ish of what you’d expect an average cross to have been.
Going to go try and find a source now.

The National Catholic Register addresses this question. The overwhelming majority of the so-called pieces are tiny slivers. A researcher once put himself to the task of tracking down all the pieces, and gave a generous estimate (in his estimate) of pieces in private hands, and came up with 2,200 cubic inches (after he multiplied all that he was able to track down by ten to account for lost parts, destruction by war, &c), which would be about one-fifth of the cross described in the Bible and apologetics tracts.

Taking the Measure of Relics of the True Cross

It is an interesting exercise. The conclusion is you can’t even build a whole cross, much less a whole house.

77
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:38:54pm

re: #73 DodgerFan1988

Trayvon Martin would have turned 21 today if he hadn’t taken a man’s head and beaten it on the pavement before being shot.

And of course we have a recording of him telling his family that he was going out to buy some skittles and then on the way home get into an altercation with somebody and beat him senseless, and that he sure hoped the fellow wouldn’t be armed…

78
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:40:39pm

re: #65 jaunte

“…So now the agency at whose vicious whims these children are shipped from one hellhole to another and back again has no leadership, only the kind of anonymous chickenshit who says things like this in phone calls with reporters.

In a call with reporters on Tuesday, a Customs and Border Protection official disputed the lawyers’ accounts of conditions for hundreds of migrant children at the facility in Clint, saying that detainees who are housed by the agency are given periodic access to showers, and are offered unlimited snacks throughout the day. That assertion ran contrary to what the lawyers, from some of the nation’s top law schools, said they were told by children. During a court-ordered visit to the facility earlier this month, some children said they had not been allowed to shower in nearly a month, and were so hungry that it had been hard for them to sleep through the night.”

‘nearly a month’ is periodic
air is a snack and it’s ‘unlimited’

how easily they do this is what’s frightening

79
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:41:30pm

re: #74 DangerMan

i stick with “What Not to Look for in a Religion”
links to the pdf download

Thanks. Saved for reading.

80
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:41:32pm

re: #66 KGxvi

The complaints should each be used as separate articles of impeachment. Or at the very least should be part of any impeachment inquiry.

in case it hasnt been said - there doesn’t have to be just one comprehensive set of impeachment articles

81
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:41:52pm

re: #78 DangerMan

‘nearly a month’ is periodic
air is a snack and it’s ‘unlimited’

how easily they do this is what’s frightening

“we will say nearly anything to deflect or defuse charges against us at this point. but we will not accept donations”

82
mmmirele  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:45:58pm

#WayfairWalkout is trending. Apparently the company sold bedroom furniture to one of the “non-profits” holding children seized by ICE, the CBP, etc. It’s a B2B transaction.

The employees are walking out and RAICES is on the case.

83
ThomasLite  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:46:21pm

re: #71 ThomasLite

OK, just going to reply to myself for convenience here:
Apparently the sources for the volume of surviving True Cross fragments tend to be Catholic, so I’m more than happy to apply a fairly liberal helping of salt.
It should however be noted it would be… out of character for official-ish Catholic sources to outright lie about these things.
Honestly, I know folks might not have the highest possible opinion of the RC church on other matters, but if something seriously disproves the provenance of a relic or miracle the first, second, third-and-quite-a-few-after-that impulse tends to be to just not mention it.
Outright ‘lying for the cause’ is frowned upon. I grew up in fairly actively involved, conservative Catholic circles - my dad has spent more than a couple evenings with a good bottle of wine together with the bishop here, from what I understand - and I’m strongly inclined to go with these sources pending contrary evidence, even being pretty much an atheist myself nowadays.
(Given how relatively easy it would be, nowadays, to catalogue those fragments if you really wanted to one-up the RC church, it seems pretty self-destructive behaviour to lie about it anyway).
Anyway, seems the summary on wikipedia is a fairly succinct, informative piece in its own right, so I won’t bother paraphrasing.

Also, the original statement isn’t only fairly funny, but it’s also probably by Erasmus who, of course, had a bit of a vested interest in the matter and apparently didn’t quite have the facts to back up his statement.

None of this is to say I believe for one picosecond any of those relics are actually what they’re claimed to be of course. Just that the joke is maybe not quite entirely fair, that’s all :)

84
jaunte  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:48:25pm
85
jaunte  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:49:15pm

Note that the “customer” is NOT acting within the asylum laws of our country.

86
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:50:06pm

re: #84 jaunte

Wayfair literally coming in with the “just following orders” response to furnishing concentration camps.

there are some things to clear up; did this company know exactly what this furniture was being used for and was this at a time when the abuses were widely known? I did not read the fine print on the B2B doc posted upthread.

87
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:54:24pm

re: #86 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

there are some things to clear up; did this company know exactly what this furniture was being used for and was this at a time when the abuses were widely known? I did not read the fine print on the B2B doc posted upthread.

i didnt read it either and i dont know
- if they didnt, and now they do, they could have done lots of things differently in response.
- like not trying to defend it, and yes, immediately donating any profits.

i’d say they are mucking this up worse than a Joe Biden gaffe

88
ThomasLite  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:56:34pm

re: #76 Anymouse 🌹

The National Catholic Register addresses this question. The overwhelming majority of the so-called pieces are tiny slivers. A researcher once put himself to the task of tracking down all the pieces, and gave a generous estimate (in his estimate) of pieces in private hands, and came up with 2,200 cubic inches (after he multiplied all that he was able to track down by ten to account for lost parts, destruction by war, &c), which would be about one-fifth of the cross described in the Bible and apologetics tracts.

Taking the Measure of Relics of the True Cross

It is an interesting exercise. The conclusion is you can’t even build a whole cross, much less a whole house.

Thanks. I did come across that one. It seems a bit presumptuous of the author to conclude that just because there isn’t a (hugely problematic, of course) excess in the volume of True Cross fragments, that the extant ones are “probably authentic”.
On the other hand, the research quoted in the WP article comes to quite a bit less in total volume.

Funny thing is, the True Cross fragment (splinter, really) held as a relic at the local church my family frequented when I was little set off my BS-detector so hard it probably helped in rejecting the whole shebang altogether.
Ironic how it might actually be one of the more credible elements, I suppose.

89
Dread Pirate  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:57:11pm

New trade deal negotiations proceeding as expected.

90
ericblair  Jun 25, 2019 • 12:59:28pm

re: #87 DangerMan

i didnt read it either and i dont know
- if they didnt, and now they do, they could have done lots of things differently in response.
- like not trying to defend it, and yes, immediately donating any profits.

i’d say they are mucking this up worse than a Joe Biden gaffe

I don’t care about being fair: shame them into stopping and throw another monkey wrench in the works.

It’s going to take some time for everybody to realize that to any public-facing company, Trump and his soulless zombies are death. It kills them with key markets, and it’s relatively easy to get companies to pull out.

91
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:00:10pm

re: #87 DangerMan

i didnt read it either and i dont know
- if they didnt, and now they do, they could have done lots of things differently in response.
- like not trying to defend it, and yes, immediately donating any profits.

i’d say they are mucking this up worse than a Joe Biden gaffe

I am not supporting this at at all, but they are technically correct in that nothing illegal has happened in that no charges have been filed or even any investigations opened.

And I guess their initial attitude was that they were not going to turn down business that would otherwise go to a competitor.

But yeah, now that the details are coming out, they got some serious splainin’ to do…

92
Dr Lizardo  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:03:07pm

re: #72 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Black Adder always gets an upvote.

93
Dr. Matt  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:05:02pm

Everyone: *Laughing at Iran’s response to Donnie*

Wingnuts: Libtards are siding with Iran! Traitors!11!

94
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:07:07pm

progress

Appeals Court Shakes Up Census Citizenship Case Days Before SCOTUS Decision

An appeals court agreed Tuesday to let a federal judge in Maryland reconsider his previous ruling on whether there was a discriminatory intent behind the Trump administration’s move to add the citizenship question.
…..
The judge in Maryland U.S. District Judge George Hazel initially did not find that the question had violated the Constitution’s Equal Protection clause in a ruling that struck it down for other reasons.

After the challengers put forward new evidence from the files of a deceased GOP consultant apparently involved in the administration’s move, Hazel sought to have the case sent back to him from the 4th US Circuit Court of Appeals, where the case had been appealed.

The appeals court granted that request in an order Tuesday.

95
sagehen  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:08:28pm

re: #84 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Pretty sure the manufacturers of Zyklon-B used that exact same rationale.

96
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:09:18pm

re: #67 jaunte

Note that being ‘offered’ a snack isn’t the same as being ‘given’ a snack.

and “snack” is not defined..

97
jaunte  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:09:48pm

re: #95 sagehen

Lawful evil.

98
7-y (Expectation of Great Things in Due Course)  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:10:21pm

re: #60 Anymouse 🌹

The only rhetorical skills he’s honed is very fast speaking, Gish Gallops, and whataboutism. To those who don’t know better, that shows he’s knowledgeable about a subject.

Too bad I can’t get a radio show or podcast. I have the right voice for it (I was once an Armed Forces Radio DJ), and I can actually research a topic before I write it up or talk about it.

Do you know how easy to do a podcast? Why not just get started. Maybe you could interview people here.

This is not high tech. I was involved in the first live streaming audio webcasts and that was iffy sometimes. Making and publishing a podcast nowadays is child’s play.

99
Dr Lizardo  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:11:56pm

Time to call it a day. Have fun, Lizards.

100
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:17:10pm

The virtual rail people have a livestream of tracks from Plant City, Florida, and last night the camera picked up the Falcon Heavy launch and booster reentry, even though they are many miles away:

SpaceX Falcon Heavy Rocket Lofts 24 Satellites in 1st Night Launch

101
makeitstop  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:18:21pm

re: #82 mmmirele

#WayfairWalkout is trending. Apparently the company sold bedroom furniture to one of the “non-profits” holding children seized by ICE, the CBP, etc. It’s a B2B transaction.

[Embedded content]

We’ve gotten some stuff from Wayfair recently.

That stops now.

102
Patricia Kayden  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:19:52pm

re: #28 sagehen

There were other women who came forward and it didn’t make a difference.

103
wrenchwench  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:20:38pm

re: #101 makeitstop

We’ve gotten some stuff from Wayfair recently.

That stops now.

That’s how boycott is done! Don’t burn anything in the driveway.

104
ericblair  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:22:57pm

re: #91 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I am not supporting this at at all, but they are technically correct in that nothing illegal has happened in that no charges have been filed or even any investigations opened.

And I guess their initial attitude is that they are not going to turn down business that would otherwise go to a competitor.

But yeah, now that the details are coming out, they got some serious splainin’ to do…

Who cares. “Fairness” will be the death of us. Make every company scared to do business with the racist freaks. Shun, cast them out of society. The racists care very much about their social standing.

105
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:24:29pm

You don’t need charges or investigations for illegal activity to occur.

106
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:26:00pm

re: #96 Backwoods_Sleuth

and “snack” is not defined..

like i said, air’s a snack if you’re not getting any

107
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:26:56pm

re: #98 7-y (Expectation of Great Things in Due Course)

Do you know how easy to do a podcast? Why not just get started. Maybe you could interview people here.

This is not high tech. I was involved in the first live streaming audio webcasts and that was iffy sometimes. Making and publishing a podcast nowadays is child’s play.

quick…get me a child. i cant make head or tail out of this.

108
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:27:46pm

re: #107 DangerMan

quick…get me a child. i cant make head or tail out of this.

First thing you would want to do is invest in a good quality microphone.

109
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:28:19pm

re: #104 ericblair

Who cares. “Fairness” will be the death of us. Make every company scared to do business with the racist freaks. Shun, cast them out of society. The racists care very much about their social standing.

yes, I was not defending the transaction, but I wonder how much of it was cluelessness on their part rather than ill intent; I suspect the clerk who took the order might have been unaware of the intent and purpose of the delivery at the time.

Now they are aware.

110
DangerMan  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:29:38pm

re: #101 makeitstop

We’ve gotten some stuff from Wayfair recently.

That stops now.

see? it aint that hard.

we didnt know. now we do. wont happen again. giving the profits away.

if the stockholders are more concerned with the few pennies this represents over the treatment of the children themselves, well….

111
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:30:09pm

re: #110 DangerMan

Bingo.

112
Patricia Kayden  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:31:47pm

re: #41 Eclectic Cyborg

I’m pretty sure if someone accused Hilary Clinton of rape it would be all over the news everywhere.

Or President Obama. Or Joe Biden who has been accused of sexual harassment.

113
Patricia Kayden  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:33:08pm

re: #101 makeitstop

Thank goodness I didn’t buy anything for my new house from Wayfair. Looked at their stuff and went to Bob’s and Value Village instead. Whew!

114
PhillyPretzel  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:36:34pm

re: #113 Patricia Kayden

I do not buy anything from Wayfair because of the e-mails. Now I have another reason.

115
Varek Raith  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:39:02pm

I haz intertoobz again!

116
I Would Prefer Not To  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:39:40pm

Why should I be made at Wayfair? They sold shit. If I’m going to be mad at anyone it’s the fucking congress for doing less than nothing.

117
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:41:37pm

Border Patrol finds four bodies, including three children, in South Texas
nbcnews.com

Two infants and a toddler, suspected dehydration. Good thing no one broke the law and left water for them.

118
mmmirele  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:44:51pm

re: #70 DangerMan

i am humble in how i flaunt my piety

I suspect the 2nd century Christians had maybe one gospel and a couple of Pauline letters, maybe a few other canonical or non-canonical documents. And after the separation between Christians and Jews, probably no access to Hebrew Jewish scriptures (but probably to parts of the Septuagint). There were maybe one or two people in every tiny congregation who could read and write. Memory would have been jey here.

I hate when the inerrantists go on about “how do you know about Jesus outsude of this book?” Hello, oral history? Hello, other documents? These people seem to think there was no Christianity between the 1st Century and John Calvin.

119
Dr. Matt  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:46:35pm

Why does little Bennie always look constipated?

120
Amory Blaine  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:47:50pm

Hmm. Country devolved nicely today. Well done. Can’t wait until tomorrow.

121
KGxvi  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:48:18pm

re: #119 Dr. Matt

Why does little Bennie always look constipated?

[Embedded content]

I read that as “Bernie” not “Bennie” and now I’m thinking it works for both of them.

122
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:53:01pm
123
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:54:26pm

re: #119 Dr. Matt

Why does little Bennie always look constipated?

[Embedded content]

You would be too if you had the stick that’s been up his ass since he’s been in the public spotlight.

124
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:55:11pm

re: #122 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Resign Marco. You’re useless.

125
KGxvi  Jun 25, 2019 • 1:57:09pm

re: #124 HappyWarrior

Resign Marco. You’re useless.

As much as I can’t stand Rubio, for oh so many reasons, I’m willing to bet he’s multiple orders of magnitude better than whoever Ron DeSantis would appoint as a replacement.

126
Dr. Matt  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:00:27pm

If these tapes are ever released, it will only make Donnie more popular among his base:

127
mmmirele  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:01:24pm

re: #83 ThomasLite

What about the Holy Prepuce? There were a number wandering around in the Middle Ages.

en.m.wikipedia.org

There were similar claims about the head of John the Baptist.

en.m.wikipedia.org

While Erasmus may have been (probably was) joking about pieces of the cross, he no doubt knew of the competing claims by churches with high-class relics. Remember, the Reformation started as an argument about relics. Johann Tetzel was selling indulgences on the border of Luther’s patron, Frederick the Wise, and was cutting into the monies collected by Frederick for indulgences granted by *his* great collection of relics. Luther wasn’t babbling in a vacuum.

128
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:01:38pm

re: #125 KGxvi

As much as I can’t stand Rubio, for oh so many reasons, I’m willing to bet he’s multiple orders of magnitude better than whoever Ron DeSantis would appoint as a replacement.

True. I’m just sick of his act.

129
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:02:31pm

re: #126 Dr. Matt

If these tapes are ever released, it will only make Donnie more popular among his base:

[Embedded content]

But he’s got a good relationship with the blacks.//

130
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:04:29pm

The problem with Rubio is he’s an empty suit who thinks he’s a statesman.

131
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:04:54pm

re: #84 jaunte

132
Old Liberal  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:08:00pm

re: #24 Colère Tueur de Lapin

I understand that, but isn’t the NIV even less literal?

It’s all translations of copies of copies of translations of copies of fragments which cannot be certified as to authorship with the oldest fragment of the New Testament dating to about 200 years (give or take) after the supposed death of a possible person.

133
Dr. Matt  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:08:48pm

re: #129 HappyWarrior

But he’s got a good relationship with the blacks.//

“What do you have to lose by trying something new, like Trump? … What the hell do you have to lose?”

134
makeitstop  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:08:55pm

My email to Wayfair:

Hello,

My wife and I recently made a couple of purchases through your website and were generally pleased with the merchandise and level of service.

However, I learned today that your company is supplying furnishings to the immigrant detention camps on the US southern border, and have publicly stated that you will continue to do so.

As a result, we will no longer purchase any merchandise from your company, unless and until you sever all ties with the US detention camps. Children are dying there. We can no longer do business with any company who turns a blind eye to the suffering of children.

[makeitstop]

135
Romantic Heretic  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:09:30pm

Watched some of that.

Had to give up when Ben told someone, “I don’t think you want to go down the road of justifying slavery.”

I get enough of that idiocy from the ambulatory fungus in The Oval Office.

136
ThomasLite  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:09:50pm

re: #127 mmmirele

What about the Holy Prepuce? There were a number wandering around in the Middle Ages.

en.m.wikipedia.org

There were similar claims about the head of John the Baptist.

en.m.wikipedia.org

While Erasmus may have been (probably was) joking about pieces of the cross, he no doubt knew of the competing claims by churches with high-class relics. Remember, the Reformation started as an argument about relics. Johann Tetzel was selling indulgences on the border of Luther’s patron, Frederick the Wise, and was cutting into the monies collected by Frederick for indulgences granted by *his* great collection of relics. Luther wasn’t babbling in a vacuum.

Hey, don’t get me wrong - I know most anything to do with relics (certainly before the late 17th century or so) is deeply, deeply problematic. I’m not arguing with that at all.

Just saying that somebody arguing just how problematic RC relics can be should watch out with the whole True Cross thing, since some of those claims are just as much invented out of thin air as the provenance of the relatively reasonable amount of fragments is.
And since you have no problem coming up with at least two much, much better examples, I really don’t think we disagree here?

137
Decatur Deb  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:09:51pm

The acting Border Ppatrol chief joins the long list of Trump covfefe boys:
“I didn’t speak to him. I don’t think I’ve ever spoken to him actually,”

Trump Distances Himself From Outgoing Border Patrol Chief
talkingpointsmemo.com

138
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:12:40pm

Stonekettle responding to The Reagan Battalion’s argument college student debt shouldn’t be relieved because it would “cheapen” those who paid theirs off (like my wife):

For the record, my wife’s was only paid off two years ago. (Much of that payoff came out of my VA disability payments.) She doesn’t feel debt relief would “cheapen” her degrees.

139
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:12:50pm

re: #137 Decatur Deb

The acting Border patrol chief joins the long list of Trump covfefe boys:

“I didn’t speak to him. I don’t think I’ve ever spoken to him actually,”

Trump Distances Himself From Outgoing Border Patrol Chief
talkingpointsmemo.com

The buck stops with him, you know that guy, I appointed him but I don’t know him. // Trump can go fuck himself.

140
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:13:43pm

re: #138 Anymouse 🌹

Stonekettle responding to The Reagan Battalion’s argument college student debt shouldn’t be relieved because it would “cheapen” those who paid theirs off (like my wife):

[Embedded content]

For the record, my wife’s was only paid off two years ago. (Much of that payoff came out of my VA disability payments.) She doesn’t feel debt relief would “cheapen” her degrees.

This is incredibly stupid logic. But it’s from a bunch of right wing jackasses who no doubt had everything handed to them.

141
Deep State SuperElite Satinist  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:16:52pm

“Why, anybody can have a brain. That’s a very mediocre commodity. Every pusillanimous creature that crawls on the Earth or slinks through slimy seas has a brain. Back where I come from, we have universities, seats of great learning, where men go to become great thinkers. And when they come out, they think deep thoughts and with no more brains than you have. But they have one thing you haven’t got: a diploma.”

142
PhillyPretzel  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:17:29pm

re: #140 HappyWarrior

Having debt relief would be great but it is too late for me. My student loans have been off for a while.

143
7-y (Expectation of Great Things in Due Course)  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:17:59pm

I know one 35-year old college graduate whose debt is paid off. Only one.

My daughter got lucky and fell into a successful dot com early in its growth cycle.

Her friends have not been so lucky.

144
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:20:12pm

re: #142 PhillyPretzel

Having debt relief would be great but it is too late for me. My student loans have been off for a while.

I TBH don’t get the logic of “X is bad because previous generations didn’t get this abc if we gave it to X, Y would be upset.” I’m ASD. I’m happy not resentful that we have more services for ASD spectrum children than I did as a kid but then again I’m not a fanboy of Reagan who pushed policies of resentment on people disguised as capitalism.

145
A hollow voice says, Inpeach...  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:20:59pm

The debts of earlier generations of college students were much smaller than what kids are running up now. If you’re seriously worried that it’s not fair to prior debters, why not forgive everything over a manageable maximum, say $5000? (That would also reduce the cost to whoever ends up paying these things off, also it sounds like the kind of compromise absolutely everybody would hate.)

146
retired cynic  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:21:24pm

re: #4 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Friendly fire

An interesting thing I saw today. There is a stretch of road here that I seldom travel. It’s beautiful, but some jerk of a farmer put up a huge sign at the edge of his fields that spelled out T R U M P vertically, back in 2016. Had to drive it today, and the letters have been torn off. heh

147
Old Liberal  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:22:15pm

re: #142 PhillyPretzel

Having debt relief would be great but it is too late for me. My student loans have been off for a while.

The tax cuts for the rich could be canceled, and we could take that money and give everyone a discount on the student loans they paid. Go back 30 years, why not? You’d be pumping useful money into the economy instead of stock buybacks.

Mine were paid off 30 years ago. I got plenty of value from mine at little cost. I have no reason to resent anyone else getting help. In fact, I’d be willing to pay more taxes to fund a well-conceived loan forgiveness plan. But then, that’s just me.

148
steve_davis  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:23:10pm

re: #57 Anymouse 🌹

I would suggest a print copy of the “Skeptic’s Annotated Bible” (the KJV with annotations and cross-references between all the different contradictions in the Bible - thousands of them) but you might not care for that (I’m sure they wouldn’t).

I gave my wife a print copy of it a couple years ago. She and I use it quite regularly. I would imagine she and I have read more of the Bible than most Christians (cover-to-cover several times, including the mind-numbingly Numbers).

all the different contradictions…..like two different creation stories. Cain being exiled off to marry into a tribe that has never previously been mentioned, at a time when it is patently ridiculous to imagine that Adam and Eve had populated enough people to form a completely different tribe….Abel being referred to as the first planter of fields, only to have someone else referred to as the first planter of fields (Noah?) 3 pages later. Moses writing all the books of the Pentateuch, after having inconveniently died in the third one. I’m an Episcopalian, so we look at all of that as just some entertaining marginalia. How literalists get past it is a mystery.

149
HappyWarrior  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:23:49pm

re: #147 Old Liberal

The tax cuts for the rich could be canceled, and we could take that money and give everyone a discount on the student loans they paid. Go back 30 years, why not? You’d be pumping useful money into the economy instead of stock buybacks.

Mine were paid off 30 years ago. I got plenty of value from mine at little cost. I have no reason to resent anyone else getting help. In fact, I’d be willing to pay more taxes to fund a well-conceived loan forgiveness plan. But then, that’s just me.

Because you’re not an asshole and you realize that tuition was more affordable way back when. These guys resent anyone not in the good old boy network getting a chance.

150
mmmirele  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:26:43pm

re: #136 ThomasLite

No, we don’t. I just wanted to comment on the joke, point out the two examples and note the Reformation started over relics.

151
steve_davis  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:27:34pm

re: #61 Dr Lizardo

Heh, just like that “piece of the True Cross” I once saw at a monastery in Cyprus.

It’s been said that if you assembled all the pieces of the True Cross, you’d probably end up with a pretty nice family house.

Christ’s fingers….now with 20% more fingers.

152
Old Liberal  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:27:54pm

re: #149 HappyWarrior

Because you’re not an asshole and you realize that tuition was more affordable way back when. These guys resent anyone not in the good old boy network getting a chance.

Not sure if I’m an asshole or not, but thanks for the benefit of the doubt.

I can just imagine, we come up with a reasonable plan for “equalizing” college loans, even for those who didn’t finish, and it goes back 30 years. And aside from the assholes unhappy because they didn’t get more, you’d have the people who didn’t even go to higher ed being unhappy because they got no money because they never had loans.

Americans are well and truly fucked in the head.

153
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:38:42pm

Non-important stuff not related to the discussion here, about electronically-tolled turnpikes:

I had a discussion here previously about Denver’s E-470 toll road, and it’s use of photographic equipment to shoot pictures of your license plate to send you a bill.

As of yet, no bill.

Now it would appear the Massachusetts Turnpike has the same problem: No bill from my Memorial Day trip.

I’m convinced these photographic cameras, because they cannot recognise all license plates (and because people do things like put plastic over their plates to foil them) only wind up pushing the tolls higher on people who have things like those EZ Pass devices.

In New York and Illinois, where they didn’t use those on the Thruway and the Tri-State Tollway, they got the proper tolls out of me.

154
7-y (Expectation of Great Things in Due Course)  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:40:38pm

re: #153 Anymouse 🌹

Or maybe some programmer loves Smart cars?

155
steve_davis  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:43:45pm

re: #127 mmmirele

What about the Holy Prepuce? There were a number wandering around in the Middle Ages.

en.m.wikipedia.org

There were similar claims about the head of John the Baptist.

en.m.wikipedia.org

While Erasmus may have been (probably was) joking about pieces of the cross, he no doubt knew of the competing claims by churches with high-class relics. Remember, the Reformation started as an argument about relics. Johann Tetzel was selling indulgences on the border of Luther’s patron, Frederick the Wise, and was cutting into the monies collected by Frederick for indulgences granted by *his* great collection of relics. Luther wasn’t babbling in a vacuum.

yes, but the reformation didn’t start because of that. Luther may well have been married to a nun, but he was a thoroughly decent guy who found indulgences repugnant, for good reason.

156
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:48:28pm

re: #95 sagehen

Pretty sure the manufacturers of Zyklon-B used that exact same rationale.

Zyklon-B

Prior to World War II (manufacturer) Degesch derived most of its Zyklon B profits from overseas sales, particularly in the United States, where it was produced under license by Roessler & Hasslacher prior to 1931 and by American Cyanamid from 1931 to 1943. From 1929, the United States Public Health Service used Zyklon B to fumigate freight trains and clothes of Mexican immigrants entering the United States. (Emphasis added)

157
austin_blue  Jun 25, 2019 • 2:56:59pm

re: #136 ThomasLite

Hey, don’t get me wrong - I know most anything to do with relics (certainly before the late 17th century or so) is deeply, deeply problematic. I’m not arguing with that at all.

Just saying that somebody arguing just how problematic RC relics can be should watch out with the whole True Cross thing, since some of those claims are just as much invented out of thin air as the provenance of the relatively reasonable amount of fragments is.
And since you have no problem coming up with at least two much, much better examples, I really don’t think we disagree here?

Lots of saints. Lots of finger bones.

But Jesus’ foreskin?

Now THAT’S a relic!

And if you rub it, it transforms into a holy coin purse! Bonus points!

(insert old mohel joke here…)

158
GlutenFreeJesus  Jun 25, 2019 • 3:00:04pm

re: #42 DodgerFan1988

Makes me think of the movie 28 Days Later when they find the “safe” camp of the military dudes, only to have them abuse Selena.

159
Charles Johnson  Jun 25, 2019 • 3:48:29pm
160
William Lewis  Jun 25, 2019 • 4:00:14pm

re: #155 steve_davis

Decent? That’s pushing it in my book. Erasmus, Cranmer, a few of the others, sure, but Luther was a vicious antisemite and turned on his believers if they opposed the wrong prince. The Reformation was an eruption that was going to happen sooner or later due to the nature of the church of the era - it nearly did in the 1200’s but it was tamped down by accepting Francis into the fold instead of killing the weirdos like usual. Luther was in the right place and time but I’d not care to sit down with him. Now the two above? That would be some good discussion.

161
John Hughes  Jun 26, 2019 • 8:18:04am

re: #40 jaunte

Steve Schwartzman, whose net worth is larger than Palestine’s annual GDP, is now on stage telling the Palestinians they should be more like Singapore. This is the funniest thing I’ve ever watched

Seriously? They want Palestine to be more like Singapore?

The Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) is the military component of the Ministry of Defence of the Republic of Singapore as part of the city-state’s Total Defence strategy.

The SAF has three services: the Singapore Army, the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) and the Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN). The SAF protects the interests, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Singapore from external threats.

The SAF relies heavily on a large pool of conscripts in the active and reserve forces. It has an approximate active strength of around 72,000 personnel and is capable of mobilising over a million reservists in case of national exigencies or full scale war battles. National Servicemen (NSmen) make up more than 80% of its military defence system and form the backbone of the SAF.

The country also has an established military manufacturing industry that is responsible for the design and development of the following military hardware:

PRIMUS - Self Propelled Howitzer
Bionix II - Infantry Fighting Vehicle (An upgrade of the Bionix AFV)
MATADOR - Unguided Short Range Anti-Armour Weapon
PEGASUS - Light Weight Howitzer
SAR 21 & Bullpup multirole combat rifle - Bullpup Assault Rifle
Formidable-Class Stealth Frigate - Warships designed with stealthy characteristics, equipped with advanced combat systems and with longer endurance
Independence-class littoral mission vessel - Warships designed for Littoral and Coastal Warfare

162
John Hughes  Jun 26, 2019 • 8:21:16am

re: #46 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Maybe they got them at the local Papyrus “Я” Us

Don’t you mean Papyrus “𓀞” Us?


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