Democratic Debate Night, Oct 15, 2019

Politics • Views: 22,830

CNN is the only network hosting these debates that doesn’t provide any kind of embeddable live feed, so you’ll have to watch along on your teevee box as we discuss the latest debate.

They’re arguing more than usual tonight because the leaders are beginning to emerge and the underdogs need to try to leave a bruise on Warren, Sanders or Biden.

Jump to bottom

156 comments

1
Skip Intro  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:37:07pm

And Trump laughs.

2
Charles Johnson  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:39:05pm
3
First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:39:28pm

Now that we’re well into the 23rd year of the 2020 Democratic primary, I don’t know if I can take it tonight.

4
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:41:31pm
5
HappyWarrior  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:41:54pm

re: #3 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Now that we’re well into the 23rd year of the 2020 Democratic primary, I don’t know if I can take it tonight.

I can’t believe we have the rest of the fall, winter, & spring. And then we have the summer and fall.

6
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:42:24pm
7
Dread Pirate  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:44:21pm

Still landing at Prestwick.

8
Charles Johnson  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:44:47pm
9
Charles Johnson  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:45:33pm

re: #7 Dread Pirate

Are we thinking these are the nukes from Turkey?

10
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:49:12pm

I really wish Steyer would spend his billions electing other Dems. He really brings nothing to the presidential race but hot air

11
Targetpractice  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:50:23pm

“I would eliminate the capital gains tax…” *record scratch*

Freudian slip there, Joe?

12
HappyWarrior  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:50:49pm

re: #10 BeachDem

I really wish Steyer would spend his billions electing other Dems. He really brings nothing to the presidential race but hot air

Seriously. Use your money for good. It’s nice you’re a successful businessman but we’re literally seeing why we shouldn’t elect businessmen with no elected experience time and again.

13
TedStriker  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:51:13pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

Are we thinking these are the nukes from Turkey?

Nah, it’s the deal with USAF crews laying over at Glasgow Prestwick Airport, just so they have to stay at Trump’s nearby Turnberry resort.

14
Targetpractice  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:53:11pm

Hey, did you guys know that Pete is a mayor in the Midwest?

//////

15
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:53:18pm

Almost an hour in and Tulsi hasn’t told us that she’s been in the military. PROGRESS.

16
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:53:54pm

re: #14 Targetpractice

Hey, did you guys know that Pete is a governor in the Midwest?

//////

mayor

17
First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:54:04pm

re: #12 HappyWarrior

If he’s supposedly burning $100 million on this? He would have a greater impact on the economy and do more real good for people if he just literally handed $1000 cash to 100k random people.

18
HappyWarrior  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:54:48pm

re: #17 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

If he’s supposedly burning $100 million on this? He would have a greater impact on the economy and do more real good for people if he just literally handed $1000 cash to 100k random people.

It’s pure ego. Lots of businessmen fancy themselves saviors.

19
Targetpractice  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:54:53pm

re: #16 BeachDem

mayor

*facepalm* Mea culpa.

20
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:55:36pm

re: #17 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

If he’s supposedly burning $100 million on this? He would have a greater impact on the economy and do more real good for people if he just literally handed $1000 cash to 100k random people.

Or, $100K to 1000 random people!

21
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:55:59pm

re: #18 HappyWarrior

It’s pure ego. Lots of businessmen fancy themselves saviors.

Jesus, don’t they, though?

22
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:56:30pm

re: #19 Targetpractice

*facepalm* Mea culpa.

Nah-you’re a oka—I’m just being pedantic.

23
b.d. (It's All True)  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:56:42pm

re: #14 Targetpractice

Hey, did you guys know that Pete is a mayor in the Midwest?

//////

The brain cell that remembered that John Edward’s dad worked at a mill is now storing that nugget.

24
HappyWarrior  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:58:40pm

re: #23 b.d. (Lock Them Up!)

The brain cell that remembered that John Edward’s dad worked at a mill is now storing that nugget.

That gets me thinking at another example of how Susan Sarandon is a fraud. She backed Edwards in 2008 and Edwards had been very hawkish in Iraq.

25
Ace Rothstein  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:58:57pm

re: #21 Blind Frog Belly White

My mother justifies Trump’s behavior as “All businessmen act that way.” Total bullshit, of course, I don’t ever act that way.

26
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 5:59:15pm

re: #23 b.d. (Lock Them Up!)

The brain cell that remembered that John Edward’s dad worked at a mill is now storing that nugget.

It’s the same brain cell that knows Kasich’s father was a mailman and Boehner’s ran a bar (and that Tulsi was in the military)

27
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:00:33pm

re: #25 Ace Rothstein

My mother justifies Trump’s behavior as “All businessmen act that way.” Total bullshit, of course, I don’t ever act that way.

I’ve known a number of businessmen and businesswomen, and NONE OF THEM act that way. NOBODY acts that way!

28
Dread Pirate  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:00:42pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

Are we thinking these are the nukes from Turkey?

No, just more emoluments.

29
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:02:06pm

I like Castro, but I almost liked Lin Manuel Miranda as Castro even better.//

30
First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:02:52pm

The Cory Booker Vice Presidential Campaign is proceeding apace, I think.

31
HappyWarrior  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:03:46pm

re: #30 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

The Cory Booker Vice Presidential Campaign is proceeding apace, I think.

I wouldn’t mind him with Warren or Biden.

32
Joe Bacon 🌹  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:04:09pm

I had to shut it off.

Fuck the billionaires.

It’s time to pass a Maximum Wage where nobody nets more in a year than 80% of the salary of the President.

If you can’t make ends meet on $320K a year tighten your belt!

33
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:04:53pm

I’m trying to remember the clusterfuck Republican debates from 2016 and I don’t recall them discussing/being asked any substantive questions at all—mostly dick-measuring and bombast. And yet, the vulgar talking yam is president. Now I’ve really depressed myself.

34
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:05:25pm

Turns out President =/= King.

35
Targetpractice  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:05:28pm

So, at the first break, it seems Warren has become tonight’s punching bag. The field is now focusing less on how more liberal they are than Joe and now trying to portray themselves as more “moderate” than Liz.

36
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:06:00pm

re: #33 BeachDem

I’m trying to remember the clusterfuck Republican debates from 2016 and I don’t recall them discussing/being asked any substantive questions at all—mostly dick-measuring and bombast. And yet therefore, the vulgar talking yam is president. Now I’ve really depressed myself.

FTFY

37
Targetpractice  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:06:26pm

re: #34 Blind Frog Belly White

Turns out President =/= King.

[Embedded content]

Drip, drip, drip.

38
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:06:49pm

re: #35 Targetpractice

So, at the first break, it seems Warren has become tonight’s punching bag. The field is now focusing less on how more liberal they are than Joe and now trying to portray themselves as more “moderate” than Liz.

Really trying to all fit through the same needle, huh?

39
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:06:50pm

re: #36 Blind Frog Belly White

FTFY

That makes it even MORE depressing.

40
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:07:46pm

re: #37 Targetpractice

Drip, drip, drip.

All I can think of is “Swingin’ bachelors, are you tired of the stead ‘drip, drip, drip’ of gonorrhea?” from Cheech and Chong.

41
Targetpractice  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:08:01pm

re: #38 Blind Frog Belly White

Really trying to all fit through the same needle, huh?

Ayep. The discussion about health care remains the same debate over how much “choice” voters should have, with only two of the twelve on the stage actually having the balls to suggest doing away with health insurance.

42
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:08:08pm

re: #39 BeachDem

That makes it even MORE depressing.

But ti does define the problem nicely, I think.

43
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:08:55pm

re: #41 Targetpractice

Ayep. The discussion about health care remains the same debate over how much “choice” voters should have, with only two of the twelve on the stage actually having the balls to suggest doing away with health insurance.

I think they should say they don’t plan to abolish it, just make it seem really stupid and expensive by comparison.

44
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:09:01pm

OK, finally the ELEPHANT in the room—Syria and the idiocy of the yam.

45
Charles Johnson  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:09:08pm
46
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:10:31pm

And here’s Tulsi!

47
Targetpractice  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:11:30pm

It’s so amazing: Putin isn’t in the room, and yet he’s speaking live from the stage.

48
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:11:41pm

and again I say FUCK YOU, TULSI (but did you know she’s a veteran?) Now she’s going after Bakari—don’t go after Bakari, Tulsi.

49
First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:12:12pm

re: #40 Blind Frog Belly White

~~Peter Rooter, that’s the name~~

50
sagehen  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:12:58pm

Am I the only one who’s fed up with the Medicare-for-All idea?

If we were starting from scratch then sure, it’d be worth considering. But the idea of trying to totally transform such a big part of the economy, half the country is pretty damn satisfied with their current coverage, the people who work for insurance companies (or who work in the insurance processing part of a hospital or a doctor’s office), to have all those people adjust practically overnight to a whole new system where just putting the records into a computer would be a 3-5 year process… sorry, that’s just a non-starter.

Strengthen Obamacare, add a public option, expand medicare at the state level… and then let ordinary forces gradually reconfigure the industry over 10-30 years.

51
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:13:48pm

Ha. Pete going head to head with Tulsi—and HE’S a veteran too!

52
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:14:54pm

No, Tulsi—that’s not what Pete’s saying at all, you putin puppet.

53
Targetpractice  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:15:23pm

Could you sound a little more stilted, Tulsi?

54
goddamnedfrank  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:15:30pm
55
Charles Johnson  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:19:08pm
56
Charles Johnson  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:19:21pm
57
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:20:24pm

re: #55 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Bakari Sellers really got under her skin. Good.

58
The Pie Overlord!  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:25:41pm

OH HAI! I am offline for 2 days & everything has gone to feces.

My Whirlpool dryer (which I have had for 30 years) has a busted starter. Should I call the appliance service to fix the starter or buy a new dryer? I guess that depends on if a new starter costs as much/more than a new dryer.

59
Joe Bacon 🌹  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:27:39pm

re: #58 The Pie Overlord!

OH HAI! I am offline for 2 days & everything has gone to feces.

My Whirlpool dryer (which I have had for 30 years) has a busted starter. Should I call the appliance service to fix the starter or buy a new dryer? I guess that depends on if a new starter costs as much/more than a new dryer.

Grandma Bacon had an old style Maytag wringer washer that worked for 40+ years until it died in 1984. We called the Maytag Repairman…and he had no spare parts for it…they stopped making the parts 25 years before…

60
Charles Johnson  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:27:58pm
61
Charles Johnson  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:28:46pm
62
Hecuba's daughter  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:28:51pm

re: #25 Ace Rothstein

My mother justifies Trump’s behavior as “All businessmen act that way.” Total bullshit, of course, I don’t ever act that way.

A friend who is a small businessman (and supported Bernie in 2016 during the primaries) has said to me that he knows many small businessmen exactly like Trump: boastful, arrogant, dishonest, and racist. And Trump isn’t the only businessman who lies on his taxes. Many such companies conduct business off books

More businessmen act like Trump than you may realize. Over 40 years ago, the consulting firm that I worked for sent me to a small client to get specifications on a project; the client was involved in providing insurance to union workers. The owner was very secretive and wanted basically to conceal his records from oversight. A couple weeks later our company was paid a visit by the federal task force on organized crime. It’s too bad that task force didn’t spend time investigating Trump’s business.

63
Kilroy was here  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:29:08pm

re: #58 The Pie Overlord!

OH HAI! I am offline for 2 days & everything has gone to feces.

My Whirlpool dryer (which I have had for 30 years) has a busted starter. Should I call the appliance service to fix the starter or buy a new dryer? I guess that depends on if a new starter costs as much/more than a new dryer.

It an OEM part is available maybe. But it is some knockoff then you’ll just be delaying buying a new machine. *Average age of a dryer is 13 years so you did well.

64
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:44:16pm

Good answer, Julian.

65
Dave In Austin  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:44:43pm

I get my WALL!!!!!

You get your papers. But only 2 of them.

66
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:48:21pm

Steyer says the problem is rich people/corporations are breaking the government, so he will be a billionaire president telling other billionaires what to do…or something.

67
Targetpractice  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:51:32pm

re: #66 BeachDem

Steyer says the problem is rich people/corporations are breaking the government, so he will be a billionaire president telling other billionaires what to do…or something.

Hey, it worked with Trump…right?

////////

68
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:52:39pm

re: #67 Targetpractice

Hey, it worked with Trump…right?

////////

Well…only if you buy that trump is actually a billionaire…

69
jaunte  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:55:41pm
70
jaunte  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:56:46pm

The Pseudoneoponera ant will henceforth be referred to as The Gaetz.

71
b.d. (It's All True)  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:58:00pm

This should be fun and not awkward at all:

72
Targetpractice  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:59:23pm

Hey guys, did you know Tulsi was in the Army?

///////

73
b.d. (It's All True)  Oct 15, 2019 • 6:59:54pm

re: #72 Targetpractice

Hey guys, did you know Tulsi was in the Army?

///////

Which one?

74
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:00:51pm

re: #72 Targetpractice

Hey guys, did you know Tulsi was in the Army?

///////

Glad she got to share that. // Oh, now Tulsi wants to take over the questioning of other candidates, but she’s told NYET and they go to commercial.

75
Hecuba's daughter  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:02:40pm

re: #68 BeachDem

Well…only if you buy that trump is actually a billionaire…

He may be now thanks to the money coming into his coffers from our government and other governments around the world.

76
Charles Johnson  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:03:15pm
77
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:03:39pm

re: #75 Hecuba’s daughter

He may be now thanks to the money coming into his coffers from our government and other governments around the world.

My guess is he’s still underwater from his bad business decisions and multiple loans.

78
Charles Johnson  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:05:13pm

Marc Lacey is bad.

79
Targetpractice  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:07:06pm

re: #76 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

The pressure’s eased up on him, which isn’t a wholly good thing.

80
Ace Rothstein  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:08:20pm

Somebody get the hook for Steyer, please.

81
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:11:12pm

Booker, bringing home truths—look at the people on this stage, ask about THEIR health and ignore the most unhealthy elephant in the room—the vulgar talking yam (that’s a total paraphrase, ala Adam Schiff, y’all.)

82
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:11:53pm

re: #68 BeachDem

Well…only if you buy that trump is actually a billionaire…

Narrator: trump isn’t a billionaire.

83
Hecuba's daughter  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:12:05pm

re: #77 BeachDem

My guess is he’s still underwater from his bad business decisions and multiple loans.

His assets may be substantially less than his liabilities — but without serious government financial investigation, it’s not clear we will ever have access to that information. There are voters (such as my brother) whose loyalty is premised on his constant claim that he is a brilliant successful businessman. If the fraud could be unveiled, he may lose some of these voters.

84
goddamnedfrank  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:13:43pm
85
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:14:10pm

re: #83 Hecuba’s daughter

His assets may be substantially less than his liabilities — but without serious government financial investigation, it’s not clear we will ever have access to that information. There are voters (such as my brother) whose loyalty is premised on his constant claim that he is a brilliant successful businessman. If the fraud could be unveiled, he may lose some of these voters.

Doubt it. Trumpism is a cult and the god king can never do any wrong, he can only be wronged.

86
Ace Rothstein  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:14:13pm

“Shut down that site”? I think Kamala meant to say shut down Trump’s twitter account.

87
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:16:02pm

re: #83 Hecuba’s daughter

His assets may be substantially less than his liabilities — but without serious government financial investigation, it’s not clear we will ever have access to that information. There are voters (such as my brother) whose loyalty is premised on his constant claim that he is a brilliant successful businessman. If the fraud could be unveiled, he may lose some of these voters.

If seeing his bankruptcies and losing lawsuits won’t do it, seeing his taxes won’t either—he’s a proven loser (casinos, airline, water, steaks, etc.) fraudster (Trump U) and his fans won’t hear it. Stupid or hateful or both—that’s who supports him (and I have a brother and SIL in that group, so I’m not just throwing stones.)

88
Ace Rothstein  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:18:01pm

re: #83 Hecuba’s daughter

The yam has a $50M loan to himself that can’t be accounted for.

89
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:18:46pm

Why can’t Yang find a shirt that fits him? (let’s get to the really important stuff///)

90
Ace Rothstein  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:19:06pm

Abortion is nobody’s business but the woman’s. Next topic.

91
goddamnedfrank  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:19:29pm
92
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:22:51pm

Shut up, Tulsi.

93
Targetpractice  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:23:14pm

re: #91 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

I’d watch paint dry, but it’s dark outside.

94
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:26:00pm

I think I dislike Tulsi more than I do any other candidate.

95
Ace Rothstein  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:26:57pm

One of the many problems we have in this country regarding politics is that everything has to fit on a bumper sticker.

96
Charles Johnson  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:27:17pm

Honestly I can’t agree with Kamala Harris that Twitter should shut down Trump’s account.

97
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:28:24pm

re: #95 Ace Rothstein

One of the many problems we have in this country regarding politics is that everything has to fit on a bumper sticker.

But hey, look at all the monster SUVs—more room for bigger bumper stickers!

98
jaunte  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:28:32pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

Seems like he would just go to an alternate megaphone like Gab.

99
jaunte  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:28:59pm

Or just call in to Fox more.

100
goddamnedfrank  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:29:49pm

I’ve lost 50 lbs so far this year only to just now realize that Levi Strauss has been lying to me this whole time and my waist has actually been two inches bigger around than I thought.

Which is seriously rude af and worse than a dozen Hitlers.

101
goddamnedfrank  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:31:04pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

Honestly I can’t agree with Kamala Harris that Twitter should shut down Trump’s account.

I think they should but also that it’s a weird ass issue to campaign on.

102
Targetpractice  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:31:08pm

Ah, there’s the foot-in-mouth Joe we’re all familiar with.

103
Patricia Kayden  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:31:58pm

re: #91 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

I haven’t watched any of the debates. I’ll watch when our nominee takes on Trump.

104
Ace Rothstein  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:33:31pm

re: #103 Patricia Kayden

You’ll never see a debate where the nominee takes on Trump, because Trump will never agree to one.

105
The Pie Overlord!  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:33:48pm
106
Targetpractice  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:33:57pm

Joe getting a bit testy.

107
goddamnedfrank  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:34:45pm

re: #103 Patricia Kayden

I haven’t watched any of the debates. I’ll watch when our nominee takes on Trump.

Exactly. Also, I’ve already decided I’m voting for Kamala because I feel like she’d be the best against Trump in a debate and that the four people ahead of her in the polls are skating on white privilege.

108
Joe Bacon 🌹  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:35:59pm

re: #107 goddamnedfrank

Exactly. Also, I’ve already decided I’m voting for Kamala because I feel like she’d be the best against Trump in a debate and that the four people ahead of her in the polls are skating on white privilege.

I love Kamala but Trump will turn the racism and sexism up to 12.

109
calochortus  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:36:50pm

re: #108 Joe Bacon 🌹

I love Kamala but Trump will turn the racism and sexism up to 12.

Maybe, but I’m not going to let Trump dictate my vote.

110
Charles Johnson  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:37:24pm
111
Patricia Kayden  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:37:26pm

I see his point but Trump has hurt himself by tweeting and I wouldn’t want to close off his ability to commit self harm.

112
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:39:54pm

re: #109 calochortus

Maybe, but I’m not going to let Trump dictate my vote.

I go back and forth between Kamala and Elizabeth. Would love to know who they’d pick as Veep.

113
Patricia Kayden  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:40:35pm

re: #107 goddamnedfrank

Love Warren and Harris. Either will be an excellent President. I probably will vote for Harris in the primaries and will be excited to support our eventual nominee against Trump next November (which can’t come quickly enough).

114
goddamnedfrank  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:43:56pm

re: #108 Joe Bacon 🌹

I love Kamala but Trump will turn the racism and sexism up to 12.

Maybe, I just don’t think it would work as well against her. Given where we are now it might be hard to believe, but there are still limits. Trump excels at attacking people who create an opening through their own behavior, and I just don’t see where Kamala has done that in quite the same way that Biden, Bernie, and Warren have.

Also, assuming he even deigns to debate her, and that his presidency survives the next six months (both big ifs), she’s a rhetorical assassin in a one on one setting.

115
The Pie Overlord!  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:44:07pm

Warren/Booker
Harris/Buttegieg
Klobuchar/Castro
Sanders/Biden = go home
Tulsi/Steyer/Yang = go hide

116
The Pie Overlord!  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:45:22pm

re: #114 goddamnedfrank

Maybe, I just don’t think it would work as well against her. Given where we are now it might be hard to believe, but there are still limits. Trump excels at attacking people who create an opening through their own behavior, and I just don’t see where Kamala has done that in quite the same way that Biden, Bernie, and Warren have.

Also, assuming he even deigns to debate her, and that his presidency survives the next six months (both big ifs), she’s a rhetorical assassin in a one on one setting.

Wingnuts have created bogus scandals for Kamala: some guy she dated 20 years ago, and her supposed record as CA AG.

117
Hecuba's daughter  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:47:17pm

re: #107 goddamnedfrank

Exactly. Also, I’ve already decided I’m voting for Kamala because I feel like she’d be the best against Trump in a debate and that the four people ahead of her in the polls are skating on white privilege.

As Ace said above, ain’t no way Trump is debating anyone. Of course, in 2016, he lost the debates to Hillary but that proved irrelevant, his supporters are a cult. He sets the narrative and ignores what others have to say. And his supporters filter out anything that disagrees with Trump’s rhetoric. In any case, debates aren’t an effective way of uncovering the truth — unless there is someone who fact checks speakers in real time and prevent them from continuing with lies. Having an opponent conduct fact checks makes it an unpersuasive he said - she said conflict. Trump is spectacular at lying without facing any repercussions.

118
Patricia Kayden  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:47:31pm

re: #116 The Pie Overlord!

It’s not just wingnuts. There are leftists who hate her too, unfortunately. They call her a cop and claim that she threatened to jail parents if their kids skipped school.

119
goddamnedfrank  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:47:35pm

re: #116 The Pie Overlord!

Wingnuts have created bogus scandals for Kamala: some guy she dated 20 years ago, and her supposed record as CA AG.

Outside of wingnut circles there’s not much traction on either of those fronts from what I can see. Whereas I’m seeing a LOT of Democratic voters who have very serious, well researched and articulated problems with Warren, Biden, and Sanders.

120
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:48:12pm

re: #116 The Pie Overlord!

Wingnuts have created bogus scandals for Kamala: some guy she dated 20 years ago, and her supposed record as CA AG.

And don’t forget her trainer who thought he was trying out for a TV show, courtesy of the two biggest morons on the planet—Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman.

And I repeat—shut the fuck up, Tulsi.

121
calochortus  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:48:59pm

re: #116 The Pie Overlord!

Wingnuts have created bogus scandals for Kamala: some guy she dated 20 years ago, and her supposed record as CA AG.

“Some guy” was Willie Brown a mover and shaker in CA politics. Also, he was married (he and his wife were separated and had been living separate lives)

122
goddamnedfrank  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:49:25pm

re: #118 Patricia Kayden

It’s not just wingnuts. There are leftists who hate her too, unfortunately. They call her a cop and claim that she threatened to jail parents if their kids skipped school.

Those are mostly extreme far left Jacobin types. None of them are reliable general election voters unless Bernie is the nominee, and even then I have doubts. Either way I’m not factoring their bullshit into my decision making paradigm.

123
Ace Rothstein  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:49:38pm

re: #117 Hecuba’s daughter

If there are debates, the Democratic nominee should refuse it if whatever networks don’t do a fact-checking ticker in real time on the bottom of the screen.

124
GlutenFreeJesus  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:51:55pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

Honestly I can’t agree with Kamala Harris that Twitter should shut down Trump’s account.

I would have rebuked her by saying “His posts are evidence of crimes. Daily. Let him keep going, please.”.

125
Patricia Kayden  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:52:12pm

re: #104 Ace Rothstein

You’ll never see a debate where the nominee takes on Trump, because Trump will never agree to one.

Hmmmm. I would think that someone as cocky and egotistical as Trump would be eager to tear down the Democratic nominee. After all, he can spend the entire debate insulting his opponent, lying and yucking it up for the Deplorables. He doesn’t actually have to answer any of the questions.

126
The Pie Overlord!  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:53:13pm

re: #125 Patricia Kayden

Hmmmm. I would think that someone as cocky and egotistical as Trump would be eager to tear down the Democratic nominee. After all, he can spend the entire debate insulting his opponent, lying and yucking it up for the Deplorables. He doesn’t actually have to answer any of the questions.

We already saw his “debate style” in 2016.

127
Patricia Kayden  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:54:06pm

re: #123 Ace Rothstein

I’d feel sorry for anyone who has to fact check Trump during a debate in real time. It’s not like he’s only going to tell a few lies.

128
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:56:52pm

My review (I know you’ve all been on the edge of your seats in anticipation)

I think Elizabeth, Kamala, Cory, Amy and Pete did well.
Joe and Bernie at least didn’t trip on their dicks.
Julian and Beto—not bad, nothing new.
Yang, Steyer, and Tulsi need to go away NOW

129
goddamnedfrank  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:56:54pm

re: #125 Patricia Kayden

Hmmmm. I would think that someone as cocky and egotistical as Trump would be eager to tear down the Democratic nominee. After all, he can spend the entire debate insulting his opponent, lying and yucking it up for the Deplorables. He doesn’t actually have to answer any of the questions.

There’s also a lot more actual ammo to throw at him this time around. He has a record to run on, myriad lies to try to defend, the official statements of his own intelligence agencies to refute, and his own flagrant criminal actions to deal with.

On top of all that he’s falling apart cognitively in a way that’s no longer possible to ignore.

If he’s still in office he might agree to a debate, but it would be a huge mistake.

130
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:57:32pm

re: #127 Patricia Kayden

I’d feel sorry for anyone who has to fact check Trump during a debate in real time. It’s not like he’s only going to tell a few lies.

Daniel Dale is up to the challenge!

131
jaunte  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:59:30pm
132
calochortus  Oct 15, 2019 • 7:59:59pm

re: #128 BeachDem

My review (I know you’ve all been on the edge of your seats in anticipation)

I think Elizabeth, Kamala, Cory, Amy and Pete did well.
Joe and Bernie at least didn’t trip on their dicks.
Julian and Beto—not bad, nothing new.
Yang, Steyer, and Tulsi need to go away NOW

Actually, I’m interested since I only heard part of the debate.
How did Bernie look? Did he hold up throughout?

133
Joe Bacon 🌹  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:00:16pm

re: #114 goddamnedfrank

Maybe, I just don’t think it would work as well against her. Given where we are now it might be hard to believe, but there are still limits. Trump excels at attacking people who create an opening through their own behavior, and I just don’t see where Kamala has done that in quite the same way that Biden, Bernie, and Warren have.

Also, assuming he even deigns to debate her, and that his presidency survives the next six months (both big ifs), she’s a rhetorical assassin in a one on one setting.

If you think MAGATS who hated Obama won’t double down on Kamala, sad to say they will. The white trash base will crawl over ground glass to vote straight Republican.

134
Charles Johnson  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:00:40pm
135
calochortus  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:01:11pm

re: #133 Joe Bacon 🌹

If you think MAGATS who hated Obama won’t double down on Kamala, sad to say they will. The white trash base will crawl over ground glass to vote straight Republican.

They won’t go vote for Biden or Gabbard or whomever either, so I can’t see where it matters.

136
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:01:35pm

re: #132 calochortus

Actually, I’m interested since I only heard part of the debate.
How did Bernie look? Did he hold up throughout?

He was “calm Bernie” instead of “shouty Bernie.” It was a nice change. Actually, I thought he looked a lot better at this debate, post-heart attack, than he did at the last debate where I thought he looked like he was going to stroke out at any minute.

137
calochortus  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:02:24pm

re: #136 BeachDem

He was “calm Bernie” instead of “shouty Bernie.” It was a nice change. Actually, I thought he looked a lot better at this debate, post-heart attack, than he did at the last debate where I thought he looked like he was going to stroke out at any minute.

Good. I don’t want Bernie as the nominee, but I wish him well healthwise.

138
BeachDem  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:02:34pm

re: #134 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

The showed a couple of them, actually. Gross.

139
goddamnedfrank  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:07:05pm

re: #133 Joe Bacon 🌹

If you think MAGATS who hated Obama won’t double down on Kamala, sad to say they will. The white trash base will crawl over ground glass to vote straight Republican.

OK, but how many suburban independents will they turn off in the process? I say make the contrast as stark as possible, so that there’s no excuses and no cover afforded, no more “economic anxiety.” Fuck them.

140
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:07:52pm

(“No! I am not a Russian asset!”)

141
The Pie Overlord!  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:08:44pm

re: #133 Joe Bacon 🌹

If you think MAGATS who hated Obama won’t double down on Kamala, sad to say they will. The white trash base will crawl over ground glass to vote straight Republican.

Hillary lost Michigan not because of Trumporrhoids but because of Jill Stein.

142
Joe Bacon 🌹  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:08:53pm

Tulsi isn’t a Russian Asset.

But she is a Russian Ass…

143
goddamnedfrank  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:09:33pm

Seriously, the white trash base are unreachable. Nothing we can ever do will get them to see reason, so why should we care about what might motivate them? Especially when it amounts to surrendering to their atavistic bullshit.

144
The Pie Overlord!  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:09:52pm
145
goddamnedfrank  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:18:27pm
146
retired cynic  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:19:55pm

re: #128 BeachDem

My review (I know you’ve all been on the edge of your seats in anticipation)

I think Elizabeth, Kamala, Cory, Amy and Pete did well.
Joe and Bernie at least didn’t trip on their dicks.
Julian and Beto—not bad, nothing new.
Yang, Steyer, and Tulsi need to go away NOW

And CNN agreed with you, except that they refused to even mention Kamala’s name, which just burns my a$$.

147
retired cynic  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:33:58pm

I’ve killed the thread. Guess I’ll go to bed!

148
Dread Pirate  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:35:04pm
149
A Three Hour Tour  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:38:56pm

re: #147 retired cynic

I’ve killed the thread. Guess I’ll go to bed!

I have to wake up at a time I often go to bed (4:00 am) to get my wife to the airport by 5:30 tomorrow morning to check in for a flight to a conference she just reminded me she had reservations for on Sunday night, so I’m also gonna try to call it an early night.

150
Dread Pirate  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:42:11pm
151
goddamnedfrank  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:46:21pm
152
Joe Bacon 🌹  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:52:52pm

re: #151 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

Wow, I just can’t wait to see Bernie take on Moscow Mitch. It’d go like this!

153
Belafon  Oct 15, 2019 • 8:56:41pm

re: #131 jaunte

If they hammered him, someone would complain about their lack of focus on regular issues.

154
William Lewis  Oct 15, 2019 • 9:16:23pm

re: #115 The Pie Overlord!

I still like a Warren - Buttigieg ticket.

155
TedStriker  Oct 15, 2019 • 9:52:57pm

re: #152 Joe Bacon 🌹

Wow, I just can’t wait to see Bernie take on Moscow Mitch. It’d go like this!

[Embedded content]

Note the writer on that: P.J. O’Rourke.

156
Dave In Austin  Oct 16, 2019 • 2:49:08am

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