Great Band Flashback: Fountains of Wayne, “Maureen” (Live in Chicago) [VIDEO]

Music • Views: 20,262

YouTube

Fountains of Wayne perform “Maureen” from the 2009 No Better Place: Live in Chicago concert. Buy the DVD here at: shoutfactory.com

For the band’s first-ever DVD concert, fans are treated to a career-defining set with punchy performances of their hits including “Stacy’s Mom,” “Sink To The Bottom” and “Radiation Vibe.” Having perfected the sounds of summer buzz with tight rhythms, carefree melodies and humor-laced lyrics, the indie pop quartet takes the stage in prime form, knocking out favorite after favorite.

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Facebook: facebook.com

Twitter: @ShoutFactory

Lyrics:
I pick her up outside the station
She’s telling me about her spring vacation
She’s not leaving much to the imagination
She’s giving me way too much information

Maureen
You don’t know what you do to me
I know you won’t be true to me
The least that you can do for me
Is keep it to yourself
I’m so sorry I don’t mean to shout
It’s just that I can do without
The details of your days and nights and your thoughts and dreams
Maureen, Maureen, Maureen, Maureen, Maureen

Do you know what I mean
Do you know what I mean
Do you know what I mean

She calls me up at ten past midnight
‘Cause she and some guy just had some big fight
And I say “well maybe he’s just not all that bright”
She tells me it’s not his brain that she likes

M-M-M-M-M-Maureen
You don’t know what you do to me
I know you won’t be true to me
The least that you can do for me
Is keep it to yourself
I’m so sorry I don’t mean to shout
But really I can do without
The details of your days and nights and your thoughts and dreams
Maureen, Maureen, Maureen, Maureen

I know you think I’m just a friend
But can we please just put an end
To all the graphic imagery that you insist on feeding me
I can’t accept I’m not the one
Who’s getting to have all the fun
Maybe that’s what friends are for
But I just can’t take it any more

M-M-M-M-M-Maureen
You don’t know what you do to me
I know you won’t be true to me
The least that you can do for me
Is keep it to yourself
I’m so sorry I don’t mean to shout
But really I can do without
The details of your days and nights and your thoughts and dreams
Can we keep it right
Can we keep it clean
Maureen, Maureen, Maureen, Maureen, Maureen

Jump to bottom

209 comments

1
Charles Johnson  Dec 13, 2019 • 5:50:15pm
2
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Dec 13, 2019 • 5:53:00pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

Needs more roughage in his diet

3
Jebediah, RBG  Dec 13, 2019 • 5:54:09pm

Yay! I love Fountains of Wayne!

4
Shropshire Slasher  Dec 13, 2019 • 5:58:14pm

re: #2 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Needs more roughage in his diet

I think he bet on a fart and lost.

5
Charles Johnson  Dec 13, 2019 • 6:10:15pm
6
Dread Pirate  Dec 13, 2019 • 6:29:39pm
7
Targetpractice  Dec 13, 2019 • 6:42:32pm

re: #6 Dread Pirate

[Embedded content]

In retrospect, it seems that what he’s speaking about is a Republican president lying about getting a blowjob and getting caught. Because he’s totally cool with rigging elections in his party’s favor.

8
Dread Pirate  Dec 13, 2019 • 6:46:32pm
9
Teukka  Dec 13, 2019 • 6:48:36pm

So Bizarro dropped this one…

10
Chrysicat  Dec 13, 2019 • 6:49:10pm

And that he’s admitting it now suggests he still quit anyway.

11
Belafon  Dec 13, 2019 • 6:52:31pm

re: #10 Chrysicat

[Embedded content]

And that he’s admitting it now suggests he still quit anyway.

Young people following orders isn’t terribly surprising. You’re supposed to be learning from older people.

The fact that it looks like he quit shows he’s learning.

It’s the old people that were just following orders that are really dangerous. Because they weren’t just following orders. They believed in it.

12
Targetpractice  Dec 13, 2019 • 6:52:40pm

re: #10 Chrysicat

[Embedded content]

And that he’s admitting it now suggests he still quit anyway.

That last line interests me, the bit about an “all-around crunch” meaning the gas stipend has ended. Is the Bloomberg campaign already cutting costs?

13
Belafon  Dec 13, 2019 • 6:53:24pm

re: #8 Dread Pirate

I haven’t looked very hard, but I haven’t seen that show on TV recently.

14
Teukka  Dec 13, 2019 • 6:53:56pm

re: #10 Chrysicat

[Embedded content]

And that he’s admitting it now suggests he still quit anyway.

15
Chrysicat  Dec 13, 2019 • 6:57:42pm

re: #13 Belafon

I haven’t looked very hard, but I haven’t seen that show on TV recently.

I forget, are they the original or “only in Shiny New Year”?

Also, last I checked, Rudolph belongs to whateve- the-channel-that’s-still-contractually-obligated-to-air-the-700-Club-calls-itself-these-days.

It’s part of their “25 days of Christmas” programming, or at least it was last year.

16
Belafon  Dec 13, 2019 • 6:58:09pm

re: #6 Dread Pirate

17
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 13, 2019 • 7:02:49pm

It is very dismaying that the SC decided to hear those cases on the Trump taxes. Everything I heard weeks ago was that the court should be staying out of this; the fact that they aren’t means that they are going to tell us that the president is above the law. It is remotely possible that Roberts will vote differently, but I wouldn’t bet anything on that. Bush v Gore showed that even so-called swing votes on the court, when push came to shove, stood for their party rather then the country.

Let’s pray that the Johnson victory in the UK does not foreshadow a recurrence of the 2016 fiasco: remember that Hillary needed to win all 3 states (Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania) to win the election; or other states such as Florida need to turn blue.

It’s also clear that if the Democrats were waiting for court decisions to get additional witnesses or documents, they wouldn’t be receiving anything before June, assuming that the initial reports on the timing of the tax case are accurate. The SC has to be considered as part of the obstruction of Congress.

18
Dread Pirate  Dec 13, 2019 • 7:02:56pm

re: #16 Belafon

They say he was a JAG, I’ve never seen anything but jag-off in him.

19
Chrysicat  Dec 13, 2019 • 7:03:47pm

re: #15 Chrysicat

I forget, are they the original or “only in Shiny New Year”?

Also, last I checked, Rudolph belongs to whateve- the-channel-that’s-still-contractually-obligated-to-air-the-700-Club-calls-itself-these-days.

It’s part of their “25 days of Christmas” programming, or at least it was last year.

Or I forgot that they’re “Year Without a Santa Claus”.

Not that it matters as all Rankin-Bass still belongs to—Freeform?—and gets airings in 25 Days.

20
Chrysicat  Dec 13, 2019 • 7:04:46pm

re: #18 Dread Pirate

They say he was a JAG, I’ve never seen anything but jag-off in him.

Considering how ridiculously camp gay he is and that he didn’t even serve under DADT but under “root out the f**gs”, how on earth could he have risen that far?

21
Teukka  Dec 13, 2019 • 7:04:48pm

re: #14 Teukka

[Embedded content]

Another principle is number III:

The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law, acted as Head of State or responsible government official, does not relieve him from responsibility under international law.

22
Belafon  Dec 13, 2019 • 7:38:10pm
23
Belafon  Dec 13, 2019 • 7:53:30pm
24
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Dec 13, 2019 • 7:56:21pm
25
Chrysicat  Dec 13, 2019 • 8:24:29pm
26
Dread Pirate  Dec 13, 2019 • 8:25:04pm

re: #23 Belafon

27
Barefoot Grin  Dec 13, 2019 • 8:29:50pm

re: #26 Dread Pirate

[Embedded content]

“So there’s this Mohel walking down the beach minding his own business….”

28
Belafon  Dec 13, 2019 • 8:37:13pm

Their parents might be stuck in the past, but they’re moving on.

29
Dread Pirate  Dec 13, 2019 • 8:40:56pm
30
A hollow voice says, Impeachmoot now!  Dec 13, 2019 • 8:41:32pm

re: #23 Belafon

Drakes beach deserves better. I hope the seagulls can eat them.

31
makeitstop  Dec 13, 2019 • 8:46:22pm
32
Rightwingconspirator  Dec 13, 2019 • 8:48:49pm

Get this my friends. My wife got totally trash-talked “bitch with a cane” for declining to sign a petition. Scared her a bit. She felt threatened enough to call me and come over to walk her home. Way short of 911 territory right? So after I cover her exit I start taking his picture. He was suddenly most displeased. I happen to point out we are in public and maybe he should 1) walk away, 2) call 911 and complain I’m taking his pic or 3) STFU and enjoy being on a livestream. All said slowly walking away as to not appear physically threatening.

33
wrenchwench  Dec 13, 2019 • 9:05:41pm

re: #32 Rightwingconspirator

Get this my friends. My wife got totally trash-talked “bitch with a cane” for declining to sign a petition. Scared her a bit. She felt threatened enough to call me and come over to walk her home. Way short of 911 territory right? So after I cover her exit I start taking his picture. He was suddenly most displeased. I happen to point out we are in public and maybe he should 1) walk away, 2) call 911 and complain I’m taking his pic or 3) STFU and enjoy being on a livestream. All said slowly walking away as to not appear physically threatening.

OMG.

34
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 13, 2019 • 9:12:08pm

re: #32 Rightwingconspirator

Get this my friends. My wife got totally trash-talked “bitch with a cane” for declining to sign a petition. Scared her a bit. She felt threatened enough to call me and come over to walk her home. Way short of 911 territory right? So after I cover her exit I start taking his picture. He was suddenly most displeased. I happen to point out we are in public and maybe he should 1) walk away, 2) call 911 and complain I’m taking his pic or 3) STFU and enjoy being on a livestream. All said slowly walking away as to not appear physically threatening.

Shit, dude.

I’m curious, what was the petition for?

35
Belafon  Dec 13, 2019 • 9:17:52pm

re: #34 Eclectic Cyborg

Shit, dude.

I’m curious, what was the petition for?

BeBest.

36
garzooma  Dec 13, 2019 • 9:18:08pm

re: #34 Eclectic Cyborg

Shit, dude.

I’m curious, what was the petition for?

If it was to save a clock tower that had been hit by lightning, it might be a good idea to hold on to a copy.

37
Rightwingconspirator  Dec 13, 2019 • 9:25:02pm

re: #34 Eclectic Cyborg

Since she declined to talk to him on the way in we have no idea. Most of the time the print does not match the story. In any case, a hard pass does not get that kind of harsh response in response from rational people.

38
plansbandc  Dec 13, 2019 • 9:56:25pm

I’m just hazarding a guess here, but probably pardon power was granted to right wrongs or at least have the appearance of righting wrongs. I don’t think it was meant to be used to pardon child molesters and murderers who behead their victims.

39
Ace Rothstein  Dec 13, 2019 • 9:57:42pm

re: #38 plansbandc

Narrator: “But he pardoned child molesters and murderers who beheaded their victims.”

40
plansbandc  Dec 13, 2019 • 9:59:56pm

It’s hard to choose the worst R, but Bevin is really up there on the list.

41
Ace Rothstein  Dec 13, 2019 • 10:02:16pm

re: #40 plansbandc

I don’t believe in heaven or hell, but if I did, Bevin would be in the front row of hell melting for eternity.

42
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 13, 2019 • 10:02:55pm

No. No. No. No. No.

43
goddamnedfrank  Dec 13, 2019 • 10:36:44pm
44
ckkatz  Dec 13, 2019 • 10:37:10pm

re: #32 Rightwingconspirator

Get this my friends. My wife got totally trash-talked “bitch with a cane” for declining to sign a petition. Scared her a bit. She felt threatened enough to call me and come over to walk her home. Way short of 911 territory right? So after I cover her exit I start taking his picture. He was suddenly most displeased. I happen to point out we are in public and maybe he should 1) walk away, 2) call 911 and complain I’m taking his pic or 3) STFU and enjoy being on a livestream. All said slowly walking away as to not appear physically threatening.

So sorry to hear that you and your wife had to deal with this crap.

It seems to me that there is going to be a lot more of this kind of bullying, threatening, intimidation and trash talking. And it is going to get worse over the next year as BLOTUS continues to stir up and encourage stochastic violence.

If it was some privately owned space, like a mall, you may wish to point out to management that allowing this kind of crap might be bad for business. You may also wish to consider the ‘Big Apple’ response. Which is to not even respond to these idiots, just keep moving.

And, speaking of the the ‘Big Apple’, I think most folks know where the ‘Big Apple’ is. But does anyone know where the Minneapolis?

45
ckkatz  Dec 13, 2019 • 10:44:23pm

And for the Yinzers, a Christmas carol:

Yinz Better wahtch aht
Yinz better not paht
Yinz better not cry, I’m tellin’ yinz hauscome
Santa Clause is commin’ dahntahn

He’s makin’ a list
He’s checkin’ it aht
He’s gown find aht who’s nebby an ‘at
Santa Clause is commin’ dahntahn

He knows if you’re a jagoff
He can see inside your hahs
He knows if yinz been workin’ hard
Or sittin’ on your cahch

Yinz Better wahtch aht
Yinz better not paht
Yinz better not cry, I’m tellin’ yinz hauscome
Santa Clause is commin’ dahntahn

(edit - Gah! Mis-spelled Santa)

46
Belafon  Dec 13, 2019 • 10:46:32pm

re: #44 ckkatz

My son has an iPhone. Does that count?

47
plansbandc  Dec 13, 2019 • 10:52:56pm

48
Dr Lizardo  Dec 13, 2019 • 10:55:11pm

re: #44 ckkatz

You may also wish to consider the ‘Big Apple’ response. Which is to not even respond to these idiots, just keep moving.

I always thought that was just the ‘big city’ response to morons - a silent, “Yeah, yeah, whatever pal” sort of thing.

49
ckkatz  Dec 13, 2019 • 10:55:51pm

re: #46 Belafon

My son has an iPhone. Does that count?

Hah! It must be late, that one took me a bit to realize where you went with it.

A friend dropped his iPhone in the lake this morning. It’s still syncing….

50
ckkatz  Dec 13, 2019 • 11:02:17pm

re: #48 Dr Lizardo

I always thought that was just the ‘big city’ response to morons - a silent, “Yeah, yeah, whatever pal” sort of thing.

Not too long ago, there was a video on YouTube of whack job Alex Jones running around, I believe, New York City, with a film camera trying to get reactions by asking passersby stupid questions. The responses (or better described, non-responses) of those folks was quite… interesting.

I suspect, though, that you are right, it is common in all large urban areas.

51
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 13, 2019 • 11:04:17pm

re: #49 ckkatz

A friend dropped his iPhone in the lake this morning. It’s still syncing….

52
TedStriker  Dec 13, 2019 • 11:06:05pm

re: #49 ckkatz

Hah! It must be late, that one took me a bit to realize where you went with it.

A friend dropped his iPhone in the lake this morning. It’s still syncing….

Rimshot

53
ckkatz  Dec 13, 2019 • 11:15:24pm

I guess that it’s time to unleash my one Christmas ‘Dad Joke’…
Everybody who has heard the song knows who ‘Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer’ is.

But which reindeer was the meanest?

0as22prVFC+k6xe/BJl9L/mizN+YLy3BuuYF5cndovVSjdKQm2JhStESHxVV7KHlckgoZvNDvmin9MIK898qLXydFNhiPWvmmUNklPRCbi5wwhVcpn1u3u4YUnP6l+L8ivHNxSGUwmbw62TLQowJDIaQndT0d+kA

54
ckkatz  Dec 13, 2019 • 11:29:23pm

Well, now that I have caught up on LGF and it is way past “Zero-Dark-Thirty”, one more ‘Dad Joke’ and I’m off to bed:. G’Night lizards and thank you for all the info and insight you share here.

Remember - Hands down, 6:30 is _the_ time.

55
Dave In Austin  Dec 13, 2019 • 11:35:31pm

Public shaming in order.

56
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 13, 2019 • 11:40:06pm

re: #55 Dave In Austin

Public shaming in order.

[Embedded content]

Wow, what a major league asshole.

57
Dread Pirate  Dec 13, 2019 • 11:51:46pm

re: #55 Dave In Austin

Public shaming in order.

[Embedded content]

Is she talking about that guy whose lower face looks like a hairy pussy?

58
Chrysicat  Dec 13, 2019 • 11:58:25pm

re: #42 Joe Bacon 🌹

Since one of them was the marketing strategist who decided to try to sell putting those on the same sandwich: “Greatest Generation my ass!”

59
Dr Lizardo  Dec 14, 2019 • 12:31:57am

From the “How To Win Friends and Influence People: Donald Trump Edition” files -

Protesters angry over American demands that South Korea pay more for defence destroyed portraits of the US ambassador stuck on blocks of tofu outside the US embassy on Friday after police warned them against staging a more aggressive demonstration.

US Ambassador Harry Harris has become a political lightning rod for South Koreans angered by US President Donald Trump’s push to get South Korea to pay billions of dollars more toward maintaining the 28,500 American troops stationed there.

“Harris out! We are not a US colony! We are not an ATM machine!” the demonstrators chanted outside the embassy, surrounded by phalanxes of police.

scmp.com

60
Anymouse 🌹🎃  Dec 14, 2019 • 2:44:49am

...

61
Dread Pirate  Dec 14, 2019 • 2:46:08am
62
Dr Lizardo  Dec 14, 2019 • 2:52:44am

re: #61 Dread Pirate

Erdoğan’s delusions of grandeur are intensifying. He seems to be under the impression that he’s Suleiman the Magnificent or something.

63
Teukka  Dec 14, 2019 • 3:08:09am

re: #62 Dr Lizardo

Erdoğan’s delusions of grandeur are intensifying. He seems to be under the impression that he’s Suleiman the Magnificent or something.

Well, let’s look at the bright side, he doesn’t seem to be under the impression that he is Saladin..

64
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Dec 14, 2019 • 4:37:39am

re: #42 Joe Bacon 🌹

No. No. No. No. No.

My mother did this to me when I was a yung’un. I don’t recommend the flavor or texture profile.

65
Shropshire Slasher  Dec 14, 2019 • 4:55:35am

Ever scoop out your roof’s gutter with your bare hands? Barf 🤢🤮

66
BigPapa  Dec 14, 2019 • 5:07:41am

re: #57 Dread Pirate

Is she talking about that guy whose lower face looks like a hairy pussy?

I thought of Seb Gorka first. But him and Jason Miller would make a good band: The Douchebags.

67
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 5:19:12am

re: #59 Dr Lizardo

From the “How To Win Friends and Influence People: Donald Trump Edition” files -

scmp.com

We had been improving under reputation in South Korea under Obama. I see Trump turned something else to shit.

68
jeffreyw  Dec 14, 2019 • 5:37:54am

Good morning!

69
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 14, 2019 • 5:40:15am

re: #45 ckkatz

And for the Yinzers, a Christmas carol:

Yinz Better wahtch aht
Yinz better not paht
Yinz better not cry, I’m tellin’ yinz hauscome
Santa Clause is commin’ dahntahn

He’s makin’ a list
He’s checkin’ it aht
He’s gown find aht who’s nebby an ‘at
Santa Clause is commin’ dahntahn

He knows if you’re a jagoff
He can see inside your hahs
He knows if yinz been workin’ hard
Or sittin’ on your cahch

Yinz Better wahtch aht
Yinz better not paht
Yinz better not cry, I’m tellin’ yinz hauscome
Santa Clause is commin’ dahntahn

(edit - Gah! Mis-spelled Santa)

Meet me under the Kaufman’s clock! 😉

70
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 14, 2019 • 5:42:37am

re: #55 Dave In Austin

Public shaming in order.

[Embedded content]

71
Barefoot Grin  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:06:43am

re: #66 BigPapa

I thought of Seb Gorka first. But him and Jason Miller would make a good band: The Douchebags.

With Kellyann, Sarah Huck, and Stepanie Grisham singing background as the Douchbaguettes.

72
Eventual Carrion  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:09:59am

re: #69 Joe Bacon 🌹

Meet me under the Kaufman’s clock! 😉

I was down in Pittsburgh yesterday dropping my son off at the Megabus terminal for a trip to DC. Construction everywhere, what a pain in the ass. But I did end up on a short road to get around construction that still had trolley car tracks laid into it, that kinda took me back to the 60’s and 70’s when they were everywhere.

73
BigPapa  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:11:51am

re: #71 Barefoot Grin

With Kellyann, Sarah Huck, and Stepanie Grisham singing background as the Douchbaguettes.

Their first record is called Individual 1 with the smash hits:

“За твоё здоровье” - to your health!
“За встречу” - to our meeting!
“За нашу дружбy” - to our friendship!
“За любовь” - to love!
“За счастье” - to happiness!
“За удачу” - to luck!
“За успех” - to success!

74
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:12:20am

re: #72 Eventual Carrion

I was down in Pittsburgh yesterday dropping my son off at the Megabus terminal for a trip to DC. Construction everywhere, what a pain in the ass. But I did end up on a short road to get around construction that still had trolley car tracks laid into it, that kinda took me back to the 60’s and 70’s when they were everywhere.

Been gone since 1982. Is Penn Station still being used for busses? I remember it being the Trailways terminal.

75
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:14:23am

re: #73 BigPapa

Their first record is called Individual 1 with the smash hits:

“За твоё здоровье” - to your health!
“За встречу” - to our meeting!
“За нашу дружбy” - to our friendship!
“За любовь” - to love!
“За счастье” - to happiness!
“За удачу” - to luck!
“За успех” - to success!

And don’t forget that first megabit from them!

Такого как Путин / One Like Putin, English Subs

76
Decatur Deb  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:14:44am

re: #72 Eventual Carrion

I was down in Pittsburgh yesterday dropping my son off at the Megabus terminal for a trip to DC. Construction everywhere, what a pain in the ass. But I did end up on a short road to get around construction that still had trolley car tracks laid into it, that kinda took me back to the 60’s and 70’s when they were everywhere.

Reminding people from the old ‘Burgh to google “Pittsburgh Retrographer”. Lots of good hours if you go down that coal chute.

77
jaunte  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:15:23am
78
jaunte  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:17:01am
79
Eventual Carrion  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:20:37am

re: #74 Joe Bacon 🌹

Been gone since 1982. Is Penn Station still being used for busses? I remember it being the Trailways terminal.

That I don’t know. I never lived in Pittsburgh, just had to visit there a lot when I was younger because of a heart problem at birth that made it necessary to visit Children’s hospital many times a year (with open heart surgeries in ‘67 and ‘72). I was born and raised ~70 miles north of Pittsburgh (which I came back to in ‘91 after a dozen years in the deep south).

80
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:21:43am

re: #77 jaunte

[Embedded content]

He does corruption for everyone to see but the media is too busy both siding or trying to sensationalize everything to care.

81
BigPapa  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:26:24am

The right is continuing to reconcile with Russia being the enemy but not really. Just the other day Gorka made a clear statment that Russia was still the enemy but that’s always in relation to the context of the discussion. If it has anything to do with Clinton or Obama, Russia is clearly the enemy of old. However, if the context is Trump, Russia isn’t such the enemy after all. It’s fluid, subtle, yet ever present. When you’re motivated to spread disinformation being consistent, objective, or averting hypocrisy is not an encumbrance you need to worry about. High volume and repetitition assures that.

82
jaunte  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:28:04am
83
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:28:27am

I really fear we are repeating the mistakes that led to the world wars of the 20th century.

84
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:29:31am

re: #82 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Trash talk would be more believable if Trump wasn’t polling like shit. Trump is setting them up to believe any Democratic victory will be because of fraud.

85
jaunte  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:30:51am

Let them keep hanging him around their necks like a stone.

86
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:32:18am

i know this story has been posted already - probably a couple of times

texas judge stymies trump border wall

im slow, so in case it wasnt crystal clear, there’s a bit of irony in all this:

President Donald Trump’s border wall is facing a surprising new legal hurdle down in Texas: an obscure legislative provision crafted by House Republicans in 2014 when the GOP was targeting then-President Barack Obama’s budget powers.

But what’s most remarkable is how much the legislative phrasing — aimed squarely at Obama — applies directly to the current fight involving Trump.

87
Decatur Deb  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:33:16am

re: #83 HappyWarrior

I really fear we are repeating the mistakes that led to the world wars of the 20th century.

Except that we would be on the wrong side of Omaha beach, and no one is coming to the rescue anyway.

88
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:35:52am

re: #7 Targetpractice

In retrospect, it seems that what he’s speaking about is a Republican president lying about getting a blowjob and getting caught. Because he’s totally cool with rigging elections in his party’s favor.

That is in fact their distinction.
Clinton was guilty of a crime

89
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:45:57am

re: #87 Decatur Deb

Except that we would be on the wrong side of Omaha beach, and no one is coming to the rescue anyway.

That’s exactly it.

90
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:47:13am

re: #78 jaunte

McConnell admittedly will coordinate with the defendant as a juror for the impeachment trial aka Congressional nullification & now individual 1 is signaling to the justice he appointed that Kavanaugh has Trump’s full support with 3 Trump cases now pending before SCOTUS. Shameful!

— KD (@Fly_Sistah) December 14,

]

McConnell: it’s ok to do this now cause I haven’t taken the oath yet//

91
Dave In Austin  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:48:39am
92
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:48:54am

re: #77 jaunte

He didn’t use the exact words “quid pro quo” so it’s a perfect tweet

93
Mike Lamb  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:51:50am

This isn’t exactly a hot take, but my prediction is that Trump gets absolutely curb stomped in the general, with huge margins run up in CA and the NE. If Trump eked out another electoral victory, could the country handle such an egregious, systemic “fuck you”? Leave aside the additional damage that Trump would do representing a far right minority, after being made to feel bullet proof by the Senate. The population centers would no longer matter.

94
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:53:06am

re: #85 jaunte

Ok prove it
Prove Ukraine hacked the DNC…”crowdstrike”. Not a bunch of op-eds
And no not “we have to investigate”.
If you don’t have proof you’re just spouting nonsense

95
sagehen  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:55:03am

re: #83 HappyWarrior

I really fear we are repeating the mistakes that led to the world wars of the 20th century.

History doesn’t repeat; but it rhymes
—Mark Twain

96
Decatur Deb  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:55:14am

re: #91 Dave In Austin

Can you get that in a Rebel Flag motif?

97
Decatur Deb  Dec 14, 2019 • 6:56:26am

re: #93 Mike Lamb

This isn’t exactly a hot take, but my prediction is that Trump gets absolutely curb stomped in the general, with huge margins run up in CA and the NE. If Trump eked out another electoral victory, could the country handle such an egregious, systemic “fuck you”? Leave aside the additional damage that Trump would do representing a far right minority, after being made to feel bullet proof by the Senate. The population centers would no longer matter.

We have 10 months to do everything we are ever going to do to prevent a new dark age.

98
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 14, 2019 • 7:01:27am

re: #93 Mike Lamb

This isn’t exactly a hot take, but my prediction is that Trump gets absolutely curb stomped in the general, with huge margins run up in CA and the NE. If Trump eked out another electoral victory, could the country handle such an egregious, systemic “fuck you”? Leave aside the additional damage that Trump would do representing a far right minority, after being made to feel bullet proof by the Senate. The population centers would no longer matter.

If Great Grandpa Bacon were alive he’d be whipping out his IWW Red Book and organizing a General Strike to shut the whole country down like he tried to do in 1919 (and he got a nice jail sentence thanks to A. Mitchell Palmer over that…)

99
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 7:12:55am

re: #98 Joe Bacon 🌹

If Great Grandpa Bacon were alive he’d be whipping out his IWW Red Book and organizing a General Strike to shut the whole country down like he tried to do in 1919 (and he got a nice jail sentence thanks to A. Mitchell Palmer over that…)

coincidentally, today’s electoral-vote.com:

{one of the] The three worst AGs in U.S. history, by virtually any measure:

A. Mitchell Palmer, 1919-21: Woodrow Wilson’s last AG, Palmer was his era’s Joe McCarthy. During the red scare that followed World War I, he was responsible for the arrest and imprisonment or deportation of 3,000 accused “political radicals.” The Palmer Raids, as they were known, were the gold standard (the lead standard?) for AG misconduct for generations. And if that were not enough, Palmer was also responsible for giving J. Edgar Hoover his first break, and so deserves partial blame for the widespread abuses of the future FBI director.

100
jeffreyw  Dec 14, 2019 • 7:28:02am

101
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 14, 2019 • 7:30:55am

re: #83 HappyWarrior

I really fear we are repeating the mistakes that led to the world wars of the 20th century.

No — not the world wars — but the mass slaughters and genocides. With the United States and the UK alliance with fascist nations and white supremacy, there is no major power to fight the battle for freedom. Instead we are headed to a new dark age: India is on the road to a genocide of Muslims, Trump’s America is working to reinstate Jim Crow and return feudalism as the reigning economic policy; Russia, without any objection from us, is trying to regain its empire.

OTOH maybe we are headed to the Waterworld dystopia given our failure to confront the major crisis of our times — one that doesn’t care about your political or religious or “traditional” cultural beliefs.

102
Belafon  Dec 14, 2019 • 7:37:34am

re: #83 HappyWarrior

I really fear we are repeating the mistakes that led to the world wars of the 20th century.

And we could, if good people do nothing. That’s why we must keep fighting and keep voting people out of office.

103
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 7:44:43am

re: #102 Belafon

And we could, if good people do nothing. That’s why we must keep fighting and keep voting people out of office.

Oh I’m not giving up in the slightest. Knowing history makes me determined.

104
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 7:46:00am

re: #101 Hecuba’s daughter

No — not the world wars — but the mass slaughters and genocides. With the United States and the UK alliance with fascist nations and white supremacy, there is no major power to fight the battle for freedom. Instead we are headed to a new dark age: India is on the road to a genocide of Muslims, Trump’s America is working to reinstate Jim Crow and return feudalism as the reigning economic policy; Russia, without any objection from us, is trying to regain its empire.

OTOH maybe we are headed to the Waterworld dystopia given our failure to confront the major crisis of our times — one that doesn’t care about your political or religious or “traditional” cultural beliefs.

The World Wars did involve genocides. The Armenian genocide happened during WWI and the Holocaust during WWII. If we somehow get rid of Trump next fall, we need to become the leaders of democracy and inclusion.

105
Jay C  Dec 14, 2019 • 7:50:34am

re: #93 Mike Lamb

This isn’t exactly a hot take, but my prediction is that Trump gets absolutely curb stomped in the general, with huge margins run up in CA and the NE. If Trump eked out another electoral victory, could the country handle such an egregious, systemic “fuck you”? Leave aside the additional damage that Trump would do representing a far right minority, after being made to feel bullet proof by the Senate. The population centers would no longer matter.

Basically true, IMO. Which is why I think whoever the Democratic candidate is next year has GOT to craft a campaign strategy that is going to target the enough of the right states to swing the EC vote decisively (sorry, foax: anti-democratic anachronism as it might be, we can’t fix that system in time, and have to work with it), Trump losing NE, CA, or NY by 70-30 margins isn’t going to kick him out of the WH: nor will even the hugest popular-vote margin (since we’ve seen how much Trump/the GOP cares about that).

106
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 14, 2019 • 7:53:35am

re: #102 Belafon

And we could, if good people do nothing. That’s why we must keep fighting and keep voting people out of office.

And if too many good people have been deprived of their right to vote? The GOP has been engaged in widespread voter suppression and voter disenfranchisement throughout the nation. We thought that Florida was finally going to restore voting rights — and then the Republicans threw in new roadblocks. And I wouldn’t put it past the current SC to uphold those laws.

107
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 7:57:19am

re: #105 Jay C

Basically true, IMO. Which is why I think whoever the Democratic candidate is next year has GOT to craft a campaign strategy that is going to target the enough of the right states to swing the EC vote decisively (sorry, foax: anti-democratic anachronism as it might be, we can’t fix that system in time, and have to work with it), Trump losing NE, CA, or NY by 70-30 margins isn’t going to kick him out of the WH: nor will even the hugest popular-vote margin (since we’ve seen how much Trump/the GOP cares about that).

I wonder what the battleground states are going to be. For the first time, I think Virginia is solidly in the blue column but others are going to be more complicated since they were won by Obama and Trump both. How to flip those back is a key question. IMO, I don’t think Trump has enough of a support base to retain them at the moment. But a lot can change between now and next fall.

108
Belafon  Dec 14, 2019 • 7:58:25am

re: #106 Hecuba’s daughter

And if too many good people have been deprived of their right to vote? The GOP has been engaged in widespread voter suppression and voter disenfranchisement throughout the nation. We thought that Florida was finally going to restore voting rights — and then the Republicans threw in new roadblocks. And I wouldn’t put it past the current SC to uphold those laws.

We keep fighting. Lots of things have turned around since 2016, and even in Texas Democrats made gains in 2018. We now have a Democrat running for every House Rep.

109
Barefoot Grin  Dec 14, 2019 • 7:59:09am

For Ghibli Studio fans:

theonion.com

110
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:01:07am

re: #108 Belafon

We keep fighting. Lots of things have turned around since 2016, and even in Texas Democrats made gains in 2018. We now have a Democrat running for every House Rep.

That’s why I’m glass half full. I get why it’s easy to despair but I’m seeing a movement build in this country. I’ve gone from having Republicans directly represent me in three places- the Virginia state legislature, state senate, and the House to having Democrats. My county is more Democratic than where I live as a whole but where I live is trending more Democratic too. Virginia now has a Democratic majority in both of our legislatures. We can’t despair.

111
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:02:27am

re: #104 HappyWarrior

The World Wars did involve genocides. The Armenian genocide happened during WWI and the Holocaust during WWII. If we somehow get rid of Trump next fall, we need to become the leaders of democracy and inclusion.

Yes they did — but there were other genocides/mass slaughters such as the Hutu slaughter of the Tutsis, Pol Pot and his murderous attack on the educated, Stalin and his butchery of the kulaks and, on a smaller scale, the 1931 Tulsa massacre. This is what Trump is helping to unleash on the world and he and his supporters DON’T CARE.

112
Teukka  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:05:51am

Trying to get ahead of the alt-right hate machine here.
Apparently Ms. Thunberg improv’ed a speech and used Swedish figures of speech which turned out to sound more violent than they are (damn lucky she doesn’t have Finnish as her first language). Is my book suggestion ok?

113
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:06:16am

re: #111 Hecuba’s daughter

Yes they did — but there were other genocides/mass slaughters such as the Hutu slaughter of the Tutsis, Pol Pot and his murderous attack on the educated, Stalin and his butchery of the kulaks and, on a smaller scale, the 1931 Tulsa massacre. This is what Trump is helping to unleash on the world and he and his supporters DON’T CARE.

I don’t think you’re following me. I’m saying that the first half of the century helped lead the way for things like Rwanda, the Cultural Revolution, etc. It’s Trump, Johnson, and their allies pushing this tribalism on the world. You have some leaders out there like Merkel who thankfully realize that this is the most interconnected the world has ever been and getting away from the politics of nationalism and tribalism and others like Trump and Johnson returning to the politics of old, the us versus them. Trump encourages treating Hispanics like others here in the US just like Boris and the Brexiters do the same to Slavic people in the UK.

114
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:08:39am

re: #112 Teukka

Trying to get ahead of the alt-right hate machine here.
Apparently Ms. Thunberg improv’ed a speech and used Swedish figures of speech which turned out to sound more violent than they are (damn lucky she doesn’t have Finnish as her first language). Is my book suggestion ok?

She as a Swedish language speaker naturally thinks in the metaphors and analogies of her native language rather than ours. I can’t fault her for that. I bet a lot of the usual suspects will use this for their own cynical bullshit though.

115
Teukka  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:13:26am

re: #114 HappyWarrior

She as a Swedish language speaker naturally thinks in the metaphors and analogies of her native language rather than ours. I can’t fault her for that. I bet a lot of the usual suspects will use this for their own cynical bullshit though.

Yeah. And I’ve known english for close to 40 years, and I still at times fuck up with figures of speech and idioms between the six languages I have somewhat command over. For just having spoken the language for something around 8 years or so, I find her an excellent English speaker. My classmates English when I was her age tended to be worse than hers. Much worse.

116
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:14:12am

re: #113 HappyWarrior

I don’t think you’re following me. I’m saying that the first half of the century helped lead the way for things like Rwanda, the Cultural Revolution, etc. It’s Trump, Johnson, and their allies pushing this tribalism on the world. You have some leaders out there like Merkel who thankfully realize that this is the most interconnected the world has ever been and getting away from the politics of nationalism and tribalism and others like Trump and Johnson returning to the politics of old, the us versus them. Trump encourages treating Hispanics like others here in the US just like Boris and the Brexiters do the same to Slavic people in the UK.

Unfortunately Angela Merkel is leaving the world stage in 2021 and, unless we elect Democrats to run everything, there will be no leader on the world stage with the power and world reputation to speak for freedom.

117
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:17:12am

re: #115 Teukka

Yeah. And I’ve known english for close to 40 years, and I still at times fuck up with figures of speech and idioms between the six languages I have somewhat command over. For just having spoken the language for something around 8 years or so, I find her an excellent English speaker. My classmates when I was her age tended to be worse than her. Much worse.

Completely understandable. I talk to a cousin of mine who is a little older than Greta whose first language is Slovenian. He understands a lot of English but he still sometimes will be confused about the little things like figures of speech and idioms. You can become fluent in a foreign language as yourself, my cousin, and Greta have but still think in your native language even if you are able to speak fluent the other language. One problem I had in Spanish was for example knowing that the Spanish versus verb and noun, i.e. we call a house beautiful whereas the Spanish translation is “Casa Bonita” house beautiful. It’s little things like that. Plus yeah things like idioms. I’m sure I’ve used one with a non English native speaker and confused them.

118
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:19:18am

re: #116 Hecuba’s daughter

Unfortunately Angela Merkel is leaving the world stage in 2021 and, unless we elect Democrats to run everything, there will be no leader on the world stage with the power and world reputation to speak for freedom.

That’s what you hope Marcon and Trudeau do. From what I understand, Marcon is trying to export French soft power in places that Trump is ignoring. I’m just saying this. Ignoring the tribalism of the early 20th century is what led us to the wars that our fathers, grandfathers, and great grandfathers fought. Wilson was too bigoted an asshole to pay attention to young Ho Chi Minh. Our own cultural antisemitism and isolatonism ignored the rise of Antisemitsm in Nazi Germany.

119
lizardofid  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:20:45am

re: #95 sagehen

History doesn’t repeat; but it rhymes
—Mark Twain

The semi-concentric saeculum wheel ; )

Oh, hello everyone!

120
Mike Lamb  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:21:41am

re: #107 HappyWarrior

I wonder what the battleground states are going to be. For the first time, I think Virginia is solidly in the blue column but others are going to be more complicated since they were won by Obama and Trump both. How to flip those back is a key question. IMO, I don’t think Trump has enough of a support base to retain them at the moment. But a lot can change between now and next fall.

Wiscy, PA, Ohio, Michigan, and Nevada are probably decent bets. AZ, NC, and FL too.

121
Belafon  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:22:25am

re: #114 HappyWarrior

She as a Swedish language speaker naturally thinks in the metaphors and analogies of her native language rather than ours. I can’t fault her for that. I bet a lot of the usual suspects will use this for their own cynical bullshit though.

If they haven’t seen “Darmok” then they can’t comment on other people’s language.

122
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:22:27am

re: #120 Mike Lamb

Wiscy, PA, Ohio, Michigan, and Nevada are probably decent bets. AZ, NC, and FL too.

Sounds right.

123
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:23:40am

re: #121 Belafon

If they haven’t seen “Darmok” then they can’t comment on other people’s language.

Definitely. To be honest, I’ve always felt embarassed by not being good at foreign language. I’ve been in continental Europe a few times now in places where English isn’t the first language and I always feel bad that I can’t fluently speak my host country’s language so I always try to pick up some.

124
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:26:02am

re: #110 HappyWarrior

That’s why I’m glass half full. I get why it’s easy to despair but I’m seeing a movement build in this country. I’ve gone from having Republicans directly represent me in three places- the Virginia state legislature, state senate, and the House to having Democrats. My county is more Democratic than where I live as a whole but where I live is trending more Democratic too. Virginia now has a Democratic majority in both of our legislatures. We can’t despair.

i happened to mention this yesterday, and reliably, this AM’s electoral-vote.com

First of all, there is no question that the demographic groups Republicans rely on are, on the whole, shrinking. The demographic groups that Democrats rely on are, on the whole, growing. The current Republican coalition will, very soon, no longer be enough to elect presidents, even accounting for structural advantages like the GOP domination of small, low-population states. Either the Party can re-align and find a way to attract new voters (like the Republicans, 1968-80, for example), or it can punt presidential elections for a long time (like the Democrats, 1860-1912, for example).

125
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:28:05am

re: #124 Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)

i happened to mention this yesterday, and reliably, this AM’s electoral-vote.com

I really think in some ways 2016 was a possible last hurrah for the GOP. And yes, this is true- the Dem base is growing and the GOP is shrinking. We saw that this past fall where the GOP was absolutely wiped out in the suburbs. They’re going to have to realign or punt.

126
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:41:28am

re: trump’s ‘third term’ nonsense

imo anytime anyone brings it up, it should be met with mockery, not engaged argument.

not because it’s crackpot (it is). because it simply isnt happening now.

sure, every government falls, eventually. the validity of the constitution is not in peril now

how would such a ploy work? how does trump run for a third term and the whole nation’s electoral apparatus ignores the 22nd amendment? he sues in court? if he tried, he would be gutting the basis for his own authority under the constitution itself.

if the 22d doesnt fly what else doesn’t? who is trump to ignore the 22d if i cant ignore the 14th or income taxes or whatever?

no. what he’s got to do is not run and just ‘declare’ himself.

in either of these events, the constitution no longer stands.
it’s instant literal dictatorship, and the entire constitution is tossed.

you think the US military is prepared to overthrow the constitution itself?
50 years, maybe 100 - anything ‘could’ happen so yea, no one knows. 2024? nope.

could ‘enough’ happen between now and 2024 that it might? nope.
especially not when the dem wins in 2020.

i’ve ‘explained’ all this to point out why it’s not viable or realistic now, and for trump. this is why it’s crackpot so even this argument doesnt have to be made to whoever brings it up.

the prez is a lunatic and this is idiocy.
not on your nellie.
dont engage

127
calochortus  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:43:36am

re: #126 Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)

Besides, at his current rate of mental deterioration, he won’t be able to stand up and speak a coherent sentence in another 4 years.

128
ericblair  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:45:55am

re: #127 calochortus

Besides, at his current rate of mental deterioration, he won’t be able to stand up and speak a coherent sentence in another 4 years.

My guess is less than one year. Watch some of the recent shit he’s spewed (not too much, it’s bad for your stomach).

129
calochortus  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:47:57am

re: #128 ericblair

My guess is less than one year. Watch some of the recent shit he’s spewed (not too much, it’s bad for your stomach).

Bad for my stomach and blood pressure.

130
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:49:12am

spiro agnew asserted that a sitting vp/prez couldnt be investigated or indicted while in office (of course that didnt hold)

we’re doing that again - doj memo, all these lawsuits to delay and hide stuff - like sdny
taxes and the other tax cases

and (imo) this is pretty black letter stuff - “shall” means shall. if congress meant to exempt they could have. if congress meant to shield the prez, they could have instead of a doj ‘memo’

and still it’s being re-litigated because trump filed a bunch of suits, stonewalls congress and courts are sloooooow

after the courts rule however they do and hoping it’s in line with the black letter, since trump has proved that timing and delay works, what’s to prevent any/every future prez from re- asking the same question again over and over as trump is doing now.

appeal appeal appeal because it takes so long to get to the point where the final arbiter says ‘no’ or ‘we did this already’ - which they tend not to be doing. the third branch tends to approach each of these cases as ‘legitimate’

131
Dr Lizardo  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:53:19am

re: #128 ericblair

My guess is less than one year. Watch some of the recent shit he’s spewed (not too much, it’s bad for your stomach).

I wonder if he’ll even be capable of participating in a presidential debate.

132
Weaselone  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:54:13am

re: #130 Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)

what’s to prevent any/every future prez from re- asking the same question again over and over as trump is doing now.

Don’t worry. The ability to delay will be reserved solely for Republican Presidents. Similarly, if the Supreme Court rules that somehow Congress and the state of New York can’t have Trump’s tax returns, the ruling will apply only to Republican Presidents.

133
Jay C  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:55:13am

re: #124 Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)

re: #110 HappyWarrior

That’s why I’m glass half full. I get why it’s easy to despair but I’m seeing a movement build in this country. I’ve gone from having Republicans directly represent me in three places- the Virginia state legislature, state senate, and the House to having Democrats. My county is more Democratic than where I live as a whole but where I live is trending more Democratic too. Virginia now has a Democratic majority in both of our legislatures. We can’t despair.

i happened to mention this yesterday, and reliably, this AM’s electoral-vote.com

First of all, there is no question that the demographic groups Republicans rely on are, on the whole, shrinking. The demographic groups that Democrats rely on are, on the whole, growing. The current Republican coalition will, very soon, no longer be enough to elect presidents, even accounting for structural advantages like the GOP domination of small, low-population states. Either the Party can re-align and find a way to attract new voters (like the Republicans, 1968-80, for example), or it can punt presidential elections for a long time (like the Democrats, 1860-1912, for example).

Just for myself, I happen to agree with this conclusion, but at the same time, I think all the demographic/age-cohort/realignment/coalition stuff is going to be utterly (and potentially fatally) irrelevant to the 2020 elections. We are going to have to wage the next Presidential campaign with the demographic we have next year - not some future “very soon” demographic - and the electorate in 2020 isn’t likely to be SO different from that of 2016. Which electorate delivered the WH (even if narrowly) to what would have been otherwise a joke candidate. What is needed, (IM unsolicited O) is a campaign structured around fundamental principles of governance, and a downplaying of “ideology” per se. The hardcore Trump “base”, despite all their online/media frothing, is a lot smaller than they want the public to think: sadly, so is the anti-Trump “base”. The election (like it or not) is going to be won or lost in the middle. Both geographically and ideologically.

PS:More unsolicited analysis: my bets for Dem win states next year: (in order of likelihood): NV, NC, AZ, PA, MI, OH, WI (election fuckery), FL (wild-card as usual).
Long-shots for flip: KY, GA. TX: close, but no cigar.
“Bet” being used very non-literally here.

134
calochortus  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:55:20am

re: #131 Dr Lizardo

I wonder if he’ll even be capable of participating in a presidential debate.

Seems to me I heard somewhere recently that he won’t be debating anyone this time around.
If true, I can’t imagine why that would be.
//

135
Dr Lizardo  Dec 14, 2019 • 8:58:07am

re: #134 calochortus

Seems to me I heard somewhere recently that he won’t be debating anyone this time around.
If true, I can’t imagine why that would be.
//

I actually wouldn’t be surprised if he decided not to debate next year. At the rate he’s going, his brain will be the consistency of moldy yogurt by next summer.

136
ericblair  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:00:15am

re: #134 calochortus

Seems to me I heard somewhere recently that he won’t be debating anyone this time around.
If true, I can’t imagine why that would be.
//

At this point, I doubt he could manage more than a non sequitur rehash of his rally topics and whatever weird grievances are currently marinating in whatever neural mass is left in his head. It seems ludicrous to think that he could actually generate a logical response to anything, not that the media would ever expect him to.

137
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:01:13am

moron is upset

junior moron, too

138
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:03:17am
139
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:04:30am

re: #133 Jay C

Just for myself, I happen to agree with this conclusion, but at the same time, I think all the demographic/age-cohort/realignment/coalition stuff is going to be utterly (and potentially fatally) irrelevant to the 2020 elections. We are going to have to wage the next Presidential campaign with the demographic we have next year - not some future “very soon” demographic - and the electorate in 2020 isn’t likely to be SO different from that of 2016. Which electorate delivered the WH (even if narrowly) to what would have been otherwise a joke candidate. What is needed, (IM unsolicited O) is a campaign structured around fundamental principles of governance, and a downplaying of “ideology” per se. The hardcore Trump “base”, despite all their online/media frothing, is a lot smaller than they want the public to think: sadly, so is the anti-Trump “base”. The election (like it or not) is going to be won or lost in the middle. Both geographically and ideologically.

PS:More unsolicited analysis: my bets for Dem win states next year: (in order of likelihood): NV, NC, AZ, PA, MI, OH, WI (election fuckery), FL (wild-card as usual).
Long-shots for flip: KY, GA. TX: close, but no cigar.
“Bet” being used very non-literally here.

exactly

140
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:04:30am

re: #137 Backwoods_Sleuth

moron is upset

God they’re both so insufferable. They really think him winning the CDs means the people there are absolutely loyal to him. They’re not fucking peasants who owe fealty to Lord Trump.

141
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:05:12am

re: #138 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Melania is a fucking fraud. Acts like an off hand mention of her son is bullying but her step son and husband going after Greta is just fine.

142
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:06:09am

re: #136 ericblair

At this point, I doubt he could manage more than a non sequitur rehash of his rally topics and whatever weird grievances are currently marinating in whatever neural mass is left in his head. It seems ludicrous to think that he could actually generate a logical response to anything, not that the media would ever expect him to.

certainly has no actual record to run on
if he even tries ‘great economy’ any dem nominee will easily slap that down

143
calochortus  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:06:47am

re: #141 HappyWarrior

I think you meant Melania.

144
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:07:45am

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Ivanka is a fucking fraud. Acts like an off hand mention of her son is bullying but her step son and husband going after Greta is just fine.

she’s just hanging on for the payoff

145
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:08:29am

re: #143 calochortus

I think you meant Melania.

Yeah I did. Easy enough right :).

146
calochortus  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:10:30am

re: #136 ericblair

At this point, I doubt he could manage more than a non sequitur rehash of his rally topics and whatever weird grievances are currently marinating in whatever neural mass is left in his head. It seems ludicrous to think that he could actually generate a logical response to anything, not that the media would ever expect him to.

Ya know, 4 years ago when he told us that “he alone” could fix this that and the other thing, I could see where people could believe him. Like a good con man he was persuasive (if one didn’t think too deeply about it.) Now? No. He rants and makes snarky remarks. His base loves it, as ever, but I don’t see it persuading people whose lives aren’t going where they thought they were.

147
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:12:31am

re: #146 calochortus

Ya know, 4 years ago when he told us that “he alone” could fix this that and the other thing, I could see where people could believe him. Like a good con man he was persuasive (if one didn’t think too deeply about it.) Now? No. He rants and makes snarky remarks. His base loves it, as ever, but I don’t see it persuading people whose lives aren’t going where they thought they were.

That’s why I’m optimistic. I’ve seen him turn off more people than turn people on to him. He was able to project himself as an empty slate to some extent three years ago. Now he has to defend his record. And I can’t see Middle America responding too well to a President who is too chickenshit to defend his record in a debate and one who keeps on lying. I don’t know what the results will be but I can’t see Trump gaining voters from 3 years ago.

148
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:17:26am

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Ivanka is a fucking fraud. Acts like an off hand mention of her son is bullying but her step son and husband going after Greta is just fine.

re: #143 calochortus

I think you meant Melania.

Both a mistake, and correct at the same time.

149
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:19:10am

re: #148 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Both a mistake, and correct at the same time.

They do shit like this and then act outraged that Hunter Biden was on that board. Ivanka and her asshole husband couldn’t pass a security clearance but they got on because Trump himself only. Ivanka reminds me of the daughters and sons of the dictators who have ran some of the former Soviet republics in the aftermath of the fall of the USSR.

150
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:19:17am

re: #148 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

In case anyone is having trouble seeing the images

151
Jay C  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:20:43am

re: #140 HappyWarrior

God they’re both so insufferable. They really think him winning the CDs means the people there are absolutely loyal to him. They’re not fucking peasants who owe fealty to Lord Trump.

Ab-so-freakin-lutely.

Never occurs to these braintrusts that there might be a reason that these districts voted for Trump in 2016, but returned a Democratic Rep. in 2018??

I really think some (or at least one) of those Congresspeople ought to step up and remind the Idiot-in-Chief (and Idiot Jr.) of those reasons. Preferably by stressing the terms “incompetence” and “criminality”…

152
HappyWarrior  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:29:25am

re: #151 Jay C

Ab-so-freakin-lutely.

Never occurs to these braintrusts that there might be a reason that these districts voted for Trump in 2016, but returned a Democratic Rep. in 2018??

I really think some (or at least one) of those Congresspeople ought to step up and remind the Idiot-in-Chief (and Idiot Jr.) of those reasons. Preferably by stressing the terms “incompetence” and “criminality”…

Exactly. I’m sick of this family thinking we serve them. It’s disgusting.

153
A Mom Anon  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:34:41am

re: #137 Backwoods_Sleuth

Someone should ask Jr if he’s late for his court mandated classes on not stealing money from a charity.

154
jaunte  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:34:51am
155
Belafon  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:35:58am

re: #133 Jay C

Based on the younger voter turnout in 2018, the demographic in 2020 will look a little different.

156
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:40:45am
157
BeachDem  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:42:46am

re: #151 Jay C

Ab-so-freakin-lutely.

Never occurs to these braintrusts that there might be a reason that these districts voted for Trump in 2016, but returned a Democratic Rep. in 2018??

I really think some (or at least one) of those Congresspeople ought to step up and remind the Idiot-in-Chief (and Idiot Jr.) of those reasons. Preferably by stressing the terms “incompetence” and “criminality”…

The district did go for Clinton, but only by 2 points in 2016, then Rohrabacher lost to Rouda in 2018. I think Harley’s statement is bold, considering how long that district had been Republican before him.

158
Belafon  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:44:03am

re: #156 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

[Embedded content]

Those were the hooks to get my kids to read Calvin & Hobbes.

159
retired cynic  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:46:35am

OMG: A police officer sued a Black Lives Matter protester for violence he didn’t commit. What’s next has free-speech advocates worried. WaPo

Civil rights lawyers have asked the Supreme Court to intervene in a lawsuit that activists and legal scholars fear could have wide-reaching consequences for protest organizers in Washington and across the country.
A police officer, who was hit in the head by a rock thrown at a 2016 demonstration in Louisiana, sued prominent Black Lives Matter organizer DeRay Mckesson on the premise that Mckesson should have foreseen the possibility of violence at the protest and be held accountable for it. Mckesson didn’t throw the rock or tell anyone else to throw it.
The case initially was tossed by a federal judge, citing a Supreme Court decision widely interpreted as a shield for protesters sued for damages they didn’t directly cause. But a three-judge panel with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit ruled in August that a jury should be allowed to hear the case and issue a verdict on Mckesson’s alleged negligence.

160
Sherlock Hound  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:50:32am

re: #112 Teukka

In French, “militant” refers to any kind of activist—but not violence. So an ordinary gréviste who’s merely a sign-holder is a militant. So are party officials who have only ever worked in an office.

161
retired cynic  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:51:46am

162
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:52:23am
163
Belafon  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:53:55am

re: #159 retired cynic

OMG: A police officer sued a Black Lives Matter protester for violence he didn’t commit. What’s next has free-speech advocates worried. WaPo

That three judge panel, in addition to ignoring the right to assemble and protest, is also ignoring a reasonableness test.

164
retired cynic  Dec 14, 2019 • 9:58:34am

I see that China is not going as far as the DT admin in saying what this new trade agreement covers. Surprise.

165
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:00:49am
166
Eventual Carrion  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:02:30am

re: #145 HappyWarrior

Yeah I did. Easy enough right :).

Seemingly so does Donnie.

167
retired cynic  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:15:09am

What’s Behind the GOP’s Disinformation Machine?
Are Trump’s Republican defenders Russian assets—or just useful idiots? Veteran intelligence officials weigh in.
by James Bruno, Washington Monthly

Good stuff.

168
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:20:46am

re: #130 Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)

spiro agnew asserted that a sitting vp/prez couldnt be investigated or indicted while in office (of course that didnt hold)

we’re doing that again - doj memo, all these lawsuits to delay and hide stuff - like sdny
taxes and the other tax cases

and (imo) this is pretty black letter stuff - “shall” means shall. if congress meant to exempt they could have. if congress meant to shield the prez, they could have instead of a doj ‘memo’

and still it’s being re-litigated because trump filed a bunch of suits, stonewalls congress and courts are sloooooow

after the courts rule however they do and hoping it’s in line with the black letter, since trump has proved that timing and delay works, what’s to prevent any/every future prez from re- asking the same question again over and over as trump is doing now.

appeal appeal appeal because it takes so long to get to the point where the final arbiter says ‘no’ or ‘we did this already’ - which they tend not to be doing. the third branch tends to approach each of these cases as ‘legitimate’

Following up on the last sentence.
Legitimate because the prez brought it. Even though it is settled.
What happens today when any other citizen challenges say the income tax?
Court says nope, we did that

There’s a structural problem obviously because none of this is right

169
A hollow voice says, Impeachmoot now!  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:20:49am

re: #155 Belafon

Based on the younger voter turnout in 2018, the demographic in 2020 will look a little different.

Are we having fun yet? NONE OF THIS MATTERS.

Next year we have one of the most consequential elections in our history. We need to put every bit of time and energy we can spare into it. Depressing ourselves with fantasies about turnout, who
might or might not show up and all that is just going to slow you down.

Keep calm and carry on.

(I’m not addressing Belafon or anyone in particular, this is the latest post of the thread.)

170
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:25:02am

re: #149 HappyWarrior

They do shit like this and then act outraged that Hunter Biden was on that board. Ivanka and her asshole husband couldn’t pass a security clearance but they got on because Trump himself only. Ivanka reminds me of the daughters and sons of the dictators who have ran some of the former Soviet republics in the aftermath of the fall of the USSR.

Hunter worked for a corrupt foreign for profit company (everyone knows//)
Ivanka et al are selflessly working for the good of america//

171
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:25:36am
172
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:26:24am

re: #151 Jay C

Ab-so-freakin-lutely.

Never occurs to these braintrusts that there might be a reason that these districts voted for Trump in 2016, but returned a Democratic Rep. in 2018??

I really think some (or at least one) of those Congresspeople ought to step up and remind the Idiot-in-Chief (and Idiot Jr.) of those reasons. Preferably by stressing the terms “incompetence” and “criminality”…

Don’t help them….

173
retired cynic  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:27:11am

Yes, I think so.

Have the Democrats Missed An Opportunity? (with photo of Kamala Harris)
A prosecutor in the White House may be exactly what America needs.
by Julie Rodin Zebrak December 14, 2019 Washington Monthly

another good read; not really news to us here, but good

174
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:27:12am
175
Jebediah, RBG  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:27:29am

re: #131 Dr Lizardo

I wonder if he’ll even be capable of participating in a presidential debate.

I had been convinced that by then, no way. If he insists and does it anyway - after all, he does have the best brain and the best words - it could be a truly, legendarily, shambolic shitshow. Maybe it’s one of the female candidates and he keeps thinking she’s Hillary or maybe he thinks he is at one of his stupid rallies.
But now I am starting to think that he is going to hit that stage a LOT sooner, and we will be continually told that he is way too busy presidenting to appear in public. The GOP has become so shameless that I expect they will aggressively prop up the lie that he is fully capable, and simply deny that his tweets have become random-letters style gibberish.

176
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:30:37am

re: #161 retired cynic

[Embedded content]

Shoulda said *we* as in the call
Everyone knows what it meant

177
A hollow voice says, Impeachmoot now!  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:32:18am

re: #173 retired cynic

It might be better if we can have her as attorney general. She won’t be distracted by presidenting.

178
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:32:36am

re: #165 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Freedom without responsibility
The rights 2a argument in 3 words

179
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:35:55am
180
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:36:51am

Make forced birthers pay for uterus use

If South Carolina lawmakers are going to ban abortion after six weeks’ gestation and force every pregnant person to carry their pregnancy to term, the state should damn well pay for the costs associated with giving birth to and raising that child.

That’s the premise behind a bill called the South Carolina Pro Birth Accountability Act that state Sen. Mia McLeod pre-filed Wednesday, and boy howdy!—it is a barn burner.

181
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:37:28am
182
Belafon  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:38:28am

re: #173 retired cynic

Yes, I think so.

Have the Democrats Missed An Opportunity? (with photo of Kamala Harris)
A prosecutor in the White House may be exactly what America needs.
by Julie Rodin Zebrak December 14, 2019 Washington Monthly

another good read; not really news to us here, but good

Which is why I am torn between Harris being VP and being AG. I want to turn her lose as AG, but I think it’s time we have a woman VP if we don’t get a woman presidential nominee.

183
Targetpractice  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:40:52am

re: #165 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Saw a blog post about this last night and it really speaks to entire mindset of wingnuts right now, that they genuinely believe that Trump would be as popular if not more popular than his predecessors if not for the “bogus” Russia investigation and the media’s coverage of such. It’s not that he has tried to rule like a dictator, it’s not the fascist way he has tried to deal with America’s “problems,” and it’s not that he makes pond scum look appealing. No, it’s the media not being nice and perpetuating a “hoax” that makes him look bad that is the reason why he’s so unpopular.

184
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:41:49am

re: #175 Jebediah, RBG

I had been convinced that by then, no way. If he insists and does it anyway - after all, he does have the best brain and the best words - it could be a truly, legendarily, shambolic shitshow. Maybe it’s one of the female candidates and he keeps thinking she’s Hillary or maybe he thinks he is at one of his stupid rallies.
But now I am starting to think that he is going to hit that stage a LOT sooner, and we will be continually told that he is way too busy presidenting to appear in public. The GOP has become so shameless that I expect they will aggressively prop up the lie that he is fully capable, and simply deny that his tweets have become random-letters style gibberish.

It’s a presidential debate
You wanna claim “capable and busy”?
Prove it

185
Dr Lizardo  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:45:16am

So, a sanity break.

This is a curious mystery, one from Melvindale, Michigan (not far from Detroit). An interesting mystery, and one I’d never heard of until now.

The Curious Disappearance of The Melvindale Trio

186
Jebediah, RBG  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:48:22am

re: #184 Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)

It’s a presidential debate
You wanna claim “capable and busy”?
Prove it

Maybe his opponent can debate an unoccupied golden toilet.

187
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:48:48am

re: #183 Targetpractice

Saw a blog post about this last night and it really speaks to entire mindset of wingnuts right now, that they genuinely believe that Trump would be as popular if not more popular than his predecessors if not for the “bogus” Russia investigation and the media’s coverage of such. It’s not that he has tried to rule like a dictator, it’s not the fascist way he has tried to deal with America’s “problems,” and it’s not that he makes pond scum look appealing. No, it’s the media not being nice and perpetuating a “hoax” that makes him look bad that is the reason why he’s so unpopular.

Non-citizen Obama had no problem

188
Targetpractice  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:53:00am

re: #187 Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)

Non-citizen Obama had no problem

If they’re not arguing that the “liberal media” was in his pocket, they’re outright suggesting that people were afraid to speak their minds about him because of fear of the “cancel culture” BS. When you’re constantly nursing a persecution complex, there’s always a reason why you’re the one being singled out that’s totally at odds with the facts.

189
A hollow voice says, Impeachmoot now!  Dec 14, 2019 • 10:58:19am

re: #184 Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)

It’s a presidential debate
You wanna claim “capable and busy”?
Prove it

All we have to do is suggest that he’s askeered.

190
mmmirele  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:00:25am

re: #180 Colère Tueur de Lapin

Make forced birthers pay for uterus use

This will demonstrate that the pro-lifers are not about “saving babies” but actually punishing women.

191
Targetpractice  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:01:15am

Trump won’t avoid all the debates, he’s too big of a publicity hound to do that. No, what he’s doing is what he always does: work the refs. He’ll make a lot of noise about avoiding the debates unless the mods are ones he approves of (i.e. are “fair”), the debate format one that allows him to stalk the stage and loom over his opponents, and the audience one favorable to him. And if he doesn’t get that, then he’ll just refuse to attend the debates until the refs accede to his demands.

192
Targetpractice  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:01:49am

re: #190 mmmirele

This will demonstrate that the pro-lifers are not about “saving babies” but actually punishing women.

Considering the dominance of the GOP in the SC legislature, I expect some legislative chicanery to avoid any real debate on the bill before it’s circular-filed.

193
BeachDem  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:02:02am

re: #179 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

[Embedded content]

Had we not heard enough about Katie McHugh when Buzzfeed decided to give 90 bazillion words to her bullshit back in May? Why does CNN feel this asshole is worth another dive into her racist crap?

194
jaunte  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:02:25am
195
plansbandc  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:02:44am

196
Ace Rothstein  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:04:21am

re: #131 Dr Lizardo

I wonder if he’ll even be capable of participating in a presidential debate.

Mark my words, Trump will never do one debate. If I’m not mistaken, he’s already said the process isn’t fair and he’s not going to do one. LOL a whole year in advance.

197
Targetpractice  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:05:41am

re: #196 Ace Rothstein

Mark my words, Trump will never do one debate. If I’m not mistaken, he’s already said the process isn’t fair and he’s not going to do one. LOL a whole year in advance.

No offense, but he said that same shit in ‘16. And he ended up only avoiding one debate before the networks gave in to his demands and we got the infamous “town hall” where he spent the time he wasn’t answering questions looming behind Hillary…or fucking a chair.

198
BeachDem  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:05:45am

re: #180 Colère Tueur de Lapin

Make forced birthers pay for uterus use

We do have a few good ones here is South Carolina. Mia and Mandy Powers Norrell are both pretty amazing.

199
retired cynic  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:06:17am

re: #193 BeachDem

Had we not heard enough about Katie McHugh when Buzzfeed decided to give 90 bazillion words to her bullshit back in May? Why does CNN feel this asshole is worth another dive into her racist crap?

from that article:

McHugh has shared several hundred emails with the Southern Policy Law Center and now some with CNN showing Miller’s contacts from 2015 to 2016. She says Miller stopped reaching out once he got a position in the White House.
She agreed to a CNN interview — her first on camera — because she wants to sound the alarm about Miller.
She says she is doing this as part of her own journey to healing and repentance for the life she used to live and the people she hurt.

200
Dr Lizardo  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:09:35am

re: #196 Ace Rothstein

Mark my words, Trump will never do one debate. If I’m not mistaken, he’s already said the process isn’t fair and he’s not going to do one. LOL a whole year in advance.

Then the Democrats need to point out - loudly and repeatedly - that Trump’s rapidly declining neurological condition and/or mental state is the reason he’s not on the debate stage.

201
Eventual Carrion  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:09:37am

re: #195 plansbandc

[Embedded content]

202
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:09:38am
203
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:10:05am

“I don’t know of any crime that was committed where the actual victim wasn’t aware of it.”

1. The President of the United States is publicly admitting to being a criminal.
2. And he’s implying that as long as the victim is AWARE OF THE CRIME, there’s no problems.

JFC.

Also, the orange asshole is going to the Army/Navy game in Philly today to try and get himself more cheers.

204
jaunte  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:10:50am
205
BeachDem  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:11:41am

re: #199 retired cynic

from that article:

She says she is doing this as part of her own journey to healing and repentance for the life she used to live and the people she hurt.

Great—post the emails, but don’t give her facetime to resurrect her “career.”

206
sagehen  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:14:30am

re: #199 retired cynic

from that article:

She says she is doing this as part of her own journey to healing and repentance for the life she used to live and the people she hurt.

It’s a start. But it’s going to take a whole lot more to convince me of her sincerity.

Glenn Beck’s attempt at wokeness lasted barely a month, then he was back to his same-old same-old. Joe Walsh and Bill Kristol are doing better, but they’ve got more to do. All is not yet forgiven.

Jennifer Rubin has earned her new standing. And Max Boot is… along the path and may yet get there.

207
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:14:32am

re: #131 Dr Lizardo

I wonder if he’ll even be capable of participating in a presidential debate.

Trump will avoid debating and continue with his Nazi rallies

208
Ace Rothstein  Dec 14, 2019 • 11:20:07am

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Be beast.

209
Citizen K  Dec 14, 2019 • 1:09:29pm

re: #146 calochortus

Ya know, 4 years ago when he told us that “he alone” could fix this that and the other thing, I could see where people could believe him. Like a good con man he was persuasive (if one didn’t think too deeply about it.) Now? No. He rants and makes snarky remarks. His base loves it, as ever, but I don’t see it persuading people whose lives aren’t going where they thought they were.

The problem is that now that he’s the incumbent, he doesn’t have to persuade people to necessarily vote for him. Just to not vote for Dems. And the electorate constantly and consistently seems hungry for any and all reason to punch Dems in the mouth and kick us in the dick for good measure. And with 2020 being such an important election for the state of the playing field for the next decade, if enough voters fall into the ‘both sides same thing (but dems are clearly worse)’ bullshit trap, no amount of demo advantage is going to prevent the damage the GOP will wreak.


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