Sunday Night Jazz: Wolfgang Muthspiel Quintet, “Where the River Goes” [VIDEO]

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Wolfgang Muthspiel
Where The River Goes

Wolfgang Muthspiel: guitar
Ambrose Akinmusire: trumpet
Brad Mehldau: piano
Larry Gren-adier: double bass
Eric Harland: drums

+++++ CD / LP / Download / Streaming: ecm.lnk.to

Where The River Goes carries the story forward from Wolfgang Muthspiel’s highly-acclaimed Ris-ing Grace recording of 2016, reuniting the Austrian guitarist with Brad Mehldau, Ambrose Akinmusire and Larry Grenadier, heavy talents all, and bringing in the great Eric Harland on drums. Much more than an “all-star” gathering, the group plays as an ensemble with its own distinct identi-ty, evident both in the interpretation of Muthspiel’s pieces and in the collective playing. The album, recorded at Studios La Buissonne in February 2018, and produced by Manfred Eicher, features six compositions by Wolfgang Muthspiel and one by Brad Mehldau, plus group improvisation. It is is-sued in both CD and vinyl formats. Wolfgang Muthspiel plays music from Where The River Goes on tour this autumn with concerts at major venues in Germany, Belgium, Austria, Switzerland and Es-tonia.

ECM 2610

Video by Laura Pleifer

Website: ecmrecords.com
Facebook: facebook.com
Instagram: instagram.com

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155 comments

1
Dread Pirate  Dec 15, 2019 • 10:16:43pm
2
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 15, 2019 • 10:57:17pm

Last thread someone was talking about how Bethel Church is California was mounting an effort to raise a toddler from the dead.

It is commonly believed in evangelical circles that God can raise people from the dead and that followers of Jesus have this ability. Of course Jesus was the most famous resurrection but the gospels also tell the story of how Christ himself told Lazarus to “Come out!” After the latter was presumed dead.

Also referenced is the valley of the dry bones from the book of Ezekiel in which the aforementioned prophet has a vision of a valley filled dry bones (skeletons of which all the flesh has been eroded away) where God commanded him to tell the bones to come back to life in the name of the Lord. This is exactly what happened. Flesh, muscle and tendon appeared and reattached themselves to the bones and they bodies become alive again. It is important to note though that as previously mentioned the Bible itself mentions this was a VISION and not something that supposedly actually happened.

Nevertheless, the dry bone story is mentioned in a lot of sermons and even modern Christian music as an example of how God can, at His will, allow us to overcome even death itself.

Now of course, Christianity isn’t the only old religion or system of beliefs of which resurrection is accepted as something that is physically possible. However most of these purported resurrections are likely more a result of the limited medical knowledge of the early centuries than anything else. Heck, even zombie stories are about a form of resurrection.

There are medical conditions that can make people appear dead when they are in fact alive. Someone in a prolonged vegetative state or a coma for example. In fact, even up to the 19th century some cemeteries would attach a bell to gravestones which would be a connected to a mechanism inside a casket so that if someone in a coma or what have you was mistakenly buried and came to shortly thereafter, they could ring the bell to alert people in the cemetery that “hey, you need to dig me out of here!”.

So going back to Bethel and why they are singling out this little girl among other dead children. Odds are this girl may be related to someone in the Church or they are just going with: “God put it on my heart that we need to pray for this child.” Typically though, the decision of attempting to specifically resurrect someone is only done when there’s a very a specific motivator so I think a family or personal connection is involved in this one.

I am of course a Christian myself and while I can believe that God could resurrect Jesus I’m not sure about human beings being able to supernaturally resurrect other human beings. If it is possible, I’ve never seen it first hand.

3
Dread Pirate  Dec 16, 2019 • 12:05:27am
4
Patricia Kayden  Dec 16, 2019 • 12:39:41am
5
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 16, 2019 • 12:49:44am

Stanley Black had a very long and successful career, Christmas albums aside:

[hamsters eat this link]

6
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 16, 2019 • 12:52:40am

The hamsters are certainly hungry around here…

Anyway, here is the link: tinyurl.com

7
Jay C  Dec 16, 2019 • 3:38:08am

Don’t know if it’s been noted here yet: but another victory in the culture-wars skirmishes: Crown Media, parent of Hallmark (and the Hallmark Channel) have reversed their decision to pull TV ads from wedding-planning company Zola over the latter’s inclusion of a lesbian couple in one of their ad spots. Not only that, they apologized for yanking the ads in the first place (OK, bland corporate-speak, but at least they acknowledged they were wrong).

The loser: Donald Wildmon’s American Family Association-related astroturf group One Million Moms [sic]: self-proclaimed fighters against “indecency” (and whose non-public membership list is likely to fall WAY short of seven figures). While their online gloating about their Noble Victory over Hallmark was likely short-lived, I’m sure they will be cranking up the Outrage For Jesus machine again shortly….

8
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 4:25:11am

re: #4 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

Good move. I’m telling you. The stonewalling will catch up with Trump and Republicans.

9
Teukka  Dec 16, 2019 • 4:33:25am

“Pranks” from the-chans-which-shall-not-be-named, part #damnitilostcount:

10
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 4:45:06am

re: #9 Teukka

“Pranks” from the-chans-which-shall-not-be-named, part #damnitilostcount:

[Embedded content]

Loser scumbags.

11
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 5:00:09am

this is gaining steam

12
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 5:01:54am

re: #11 Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)

this is gaining steam

It looks more and more likely since Mitch let the cat out of the bag that he’s not going to hold an impartial senate trial.

13
Dr Lizardo  Dec 16, 2019 • 5:02:38am

re: #11 Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)

I see no reason Trump cannot be impeached repeatedly.

14
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 5:02:55am

mitch and lindsey are making ALL the R’s look worse
some would convict if the vote was secret?
so likely some dont like being portrayed as craven by mitch’s actions

it only takes 3 or 4 R’s to force at least a real and honest trial.
and no, nobody thinks that there is any chance of an actual conviction.

#stiffthesenate

15
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 5:04:46am

“Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer proposed calling former national security adviser John Bolton and acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney as witnesses at an impeachment trial for President Trump in a letter to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Sunday,” NBC News reports.

“The offer is intended as a signal that Democrats are seeking an evidentiary trial, not intending to simply rely on the House investigation.”

16
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 5:07:02am

re: #15 Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)

It’s the right move. Look at this way, after the Mueller Report, it came out that Trump obstructed it. Trump has obstructed Ukraine now too by withholding key witnesses. Senate Republicans know Trump is guilty but they are too chickenshit to admit that to the GOP electorate.

17
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 5:11:10am

if they hold the impeachment and dont send it to the Senate until they agree to some of their terms, it would hang over Trumps head. An impeachment but no ‘exoneration’ would drive him insane. he’d blow up twitter and maybe even further incriminate himself.

and it will real pressure on Mitch.

so maybe schumer is telegraphing Pelosi ” Don’t send the articles to us until McConnell promises to have a real trial with witnesses pertaining to Trump”.

and as McConnell goes on the defensive they can just say “even the president wants a trial with witnesses….”

18
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 5:13:40am

finally, the dem’s might seriously consider, or just float, the idea of suspension until June, when the Court is expected to pass judgement on the release of Trump’s taxes and / or the congressional subpoenas for White House documents.

wouldn’t that put the nine directly, nakedly, in the spotlight, essentially throwing the full weight of the case upon them.

maybe the last thing any modern american court wants.
Such a move might inspire them to decide on the matter a bit sooner.

19
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 5:14:42am

all of the above, lovingly and brazenly stolen from this thread at politicalwire.com

20
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 16, 2019 • 5:46:30am

21
Dave In Austin  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:00:15am

Good morning from soggy CenTex.

22
Barefoot Grin  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:02:54am

Damnit, and just when I had sworn off gifting:

23
makeitstop  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:07:11am

Thread: Trump’s weekend…

24
lawhawk  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:12:54am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. The GOP continues to circle the drain defending Trump, and they’re perfectly fine with this confluence of corruption and criminality.

How could they not be fine with this? That’s what Fox tells them and their base. That’s what Fox amplifies to Trump - telling Trump what he wants to hear, right up until the point where a Fox poll shows a majority of the nation wants Trump impeached and removed from office.

54% want him impeached.
50% want him removed from office.

That’s inconvenient for Trump and the F&F crowd who have tried mightily to lie and propagandize that this isn’t happening.

Trump will claim Fox is fake, but the reality is that the nation knows Trump doesn’t belong in office, and we’ve reached a critical mass. Now, we have McConnell and the GOP admitting that they’re rigging the Senate to exonerate Trump without witnesses, without any evidence, and to ignore all the findings of criminal conduct.

Sure, we’ve got some right wing hacks trying to attack Schumer and his demands for witnesses at the trial, but let’s ignore that Trump himself has obstructed every attempt to investigate his conduct, and refuses to allow any of his cronies from testifying under oath.

As Graham himself pointed out in the wayback machine - that itself is impeachable conduct.

25
lawhawk  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:13:43am

Meanwhile, Fox continues normalizing white supremacists and goddamned Nazis when they can’t bring themselves to call goddamned racists racist.

26
The Pie Overlord!  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:18:51am

re: #25 lawhawk

Meanwhile, Fox continues normalizing white supremacists and goddamned Nazis when they can’t bring themselves to call goddamned racists racist.

[Embedded content]

ALL TEH PEOPLES WHO SAYING I AM TEH RASSIST IS TEH REAL RASSIST!!!!! IT JUST I LOVE TEH FLAG OF SCOTLAND SO MUCH MOAR WITH STARS ON IT!!!!! AND TEH “X” HAS TEH LI’L FEETS TO SHOW HOW ITS RUNNING!!!1!!!

27
jeffreyw  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:19:38am

Good morning!

28
makeitstop  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:25:21am

‘his conduct here was criminal.’

29
Belafon  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:33:26am

re: #22 Barefoot Grin

Damnit, and just when I had sworn off gifting:

[Embedded content]

You wrap four sides, now you have to figure out how to fold the ends down. And you can’t stand one end up until the other is folded, but you can’t fold that end until the other is completed…

30
The Pie Overlord!  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:35:47am

jfc

31
plansbandc  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:38:16am

32
Belafon  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:38:45am

re: #30 The Pie Overlord!

jfc

[Embedded content]

My wife was watching one of those documentaries about the British Royal family. I’m sure most of you know by now that Edward, the one who abdicated, was plotting with the Nazis to become king again if Germany took over Great Britain. But they were also showing the sizeable Nazi support in England, comparable to the support Nazis had in the US.

33
lawhawk  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:42:22am
34
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:46:35am
35
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 6:58:22am

36
Belafon  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:00:06am

re: #24 lawhawk

Does anyone have actual documentation on what Schumer was saying back during Clinton’s impeachment?

37
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:00:41am

re: #33 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

clear as can be

…in violation of his constituional oath…and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed—Donald J. Trump has directed the unprecedented, categorical, and indiscriminate defiance of subpoenas issued by the House of Representatives pursuant to its ”sole Power of Impeachment”….

Because that’s how you behave when you are innocent and when truth is important to you.

38
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:09:25am

re: #36 Belafon

Does anyone have actual documentation on what Schumer was saying back during Clinton’s impeachment?

fwiw - re clinton they had 4+ years of an exhaustive independent counsel investigation and a report

this is fundamentally different
- no dox have been delivered
- witnesses have been directed not to testify

39
makeitstop  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:16:23am
40
Interesting Times  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:17:34am

I would also add, in spite of typical corporate media both-siderist BS:

41
Jay C  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:17:58am

re: #38 Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)

fwiw - re clinton they had 4+ years of an exhaustive independent counsel investigation and a report

this is fundamentally different
- no dox have been delivered
- witnesses have been directed not to testify

Yep: a good strategy, IMO: for PR purposes, anyway. I think highlighting the different approaches to the Senate impeachment trial is going be a useful exercise (if not having much/any effect on the final outcome), at least to set a narrative: Schumer and the Democrats are treating the trial as a serious matter of law; McConnell and the Republicans are blatantly making it into a piece of cynical political theater.

42
i(m)p(each)sos  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:19:16am

My next door neighbors are putting in a geothermal energy system, which is good and green and all that.

BUT THEY HAVE BEEN DRILLING NONSTOP EVERY DAY FROM 8 UNTIL 4 FOR OVER A WEEK AND DEAR GOD HAVEN’T THEY REACHED THE FUCKING MOLTEN CORE OF THE EARTH BY NOW?

I work from home and the constant low-frequency rumbling of the drilling is killing me.

43
Belafon  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:22:34am

re: #40 Interesting Times

And I’m going to disagree with Bree’s assessment that Democrats have fumbled. The impeachment numbers were in the trash up until Trump gave them abuse of power by damaging Ukraine.

44
Interesting Times  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:24:39am

re: #43 Belafon

And I’m going to disagree with Bree’s assessment that Democrats have fumbled. The impeachment numbers were in the trash up until Trump gave them abuse of power by damaging Ukraine.

This is what the argument comes down to:

45
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:25:50am

re: #32 Belafon

My wife was watching one of those documentaries about the British Royal family. I’m sure most of you know by now that Edward, the one who abdicated, was plotting with the Nazis to become king again if Germany took over Great Britain. But they were also showing the sizeable Nazi support in England, comparable to the support Nazis had in the US.

The British aristocracy was very fascist and Nazi friendly. There certainly were pro-Axis factions in the US during that time but there were a lot more in the UK.

46
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:26:46am

re: #40 Interesting Times

I would also add, in spite of typical corporate media both-siderist BS:

[Embedded content]

maybe it’s not ‘media strategy’

maybe, and im just spitballing here, enough people do recognize the value of actual facts over stonewalling, hand waving, deflection and bloviating

47
lawhawk  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:27:57am

re: #40 Interesting Times

Disagree with her assessment. Democrats have done about as well as could be expected given that they have had control over the House for just about a year, and still face a GOP controlled Senate that has no problem openly conspiring with Trump to throw the trial to Trump.

Should Democrats have done more faster re: Mueller? Absolutely, but polling didn’t get there until after Trump doubled down with the crimes re: Ukraine.

48
A hollow voice says, Impeachmoot now!  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:28:46am

re: #42 i(m)p(each)sos

My next door neighbors are putting in a geothermal energy system, which is good and green and all that.

BUT THEY HAVE BEEN DRILLING NONSTOP EVERY DAY FROM 8 UNTIL 4 FOR OVER A WEEK AND DEAR GOD HAVEN’T THEY REACHED THE FUCKING MOLTEN CORE OF THE EARTH BY NOW?

I work from home and the constant low-frequency rumbling of the drilling is killing me.

Foam earplugs. About #31 or #32. Cut 1/3 off of them (YMMV) and use the rest. Cuts way down on the low level stuff without cutting way down on your hearing.

(Also good for airplanes.)

49
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:29:14am

re: #30 The Pie Overlord!

jfc

I can’t imagine VB. All this nativist shit needs to end. It’s why I really hoped that the nominee would be a PoC and a woman at that like Kamala. Someone who truly represents our nation at their core and what we’re supposed to be about. Britain (rather England) seems more eager to embrace Little Englander bullshit that isolates them. There are Jews who have called Britain home for generations. Same thing with here. They are Britons and they are Americans and the nativist shitheads want to other them and act like all their successes as a nation have come from descended from the Normans, Saxons, or Anglos. And it’s happened here too.

50
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:32:25am

I’m becoming more and more of what I call an anti nationalist. It’s not that I have stopped being proud of my nation’s accomplishments and successes. But I realize nations are about people. Some whom can go back to where the paper trails really begin, some who even predate that, and others who are just coming here but we’re all trying to make it work. I haven’t talked too much about this since it’s a private topic but my grandmother has been sick the past few weeks and I’ve met people in the medical profession from many different places. Some are American born and some are not. All are trying to help my family right now. That’s why I hate nationalism and parts of modern populism. It divides us. At our core, we are human beings. Yes, we have cultural differences but we all love and bleed.

51
Jay C  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:35:09am

re: #40 Interesting Times

I would also add, in spite of typical corporate media both-siderist BS:

[Embedded content]

BS indeed: what a crock of nonsense:

1. That “majority of voters” thing is (in the actual impeachment process) virtually irrelevant: even at 51-52%, “the voters” aren’t directly participating.
2. How have “the Dems fumbled the ball”? Because Trump is still in office? SRSLY?
3. I think the Democrats DO have a “coordinated media strategy”, and that they have used it fairly effectively - given the inbuilt media bias against them: and moreover:
4. Those Conservatives’ “coordinated” strategy and “fight” seems - so far - to have been a major failure. OK, basing it on bullshit, insult, denialism and CT mania hasn’t helped: but so far, it hasn’t moved the needle much wrt public opinion.

Some people, geeesh….

52
lawhawk  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:40:05am
53
Decatur Deb  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:45:46am

There was never a realistic chance that impeachment and conviction would remove Trump from office. Given the calculus of risk and reward, the Dems have done about as well as could be expected.

The only cure was, and is, to vote him and his Russian Mafia out resoundingly. Might happen, might not.

There are things to be done, and ten months to do them.

54
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:46:57am

re: #51 Jay C

BS indeed: what a crock of nonsense:

1. That “majority of voters” thing is (in the actual impeachment process) virtually irrelevant: even at 51-52%, “the voters” aren’t directly participating.
2. How have “the Dems fumbled the ball”? Because Trump is still in office? SRSLY?
3. I think the Democrats DO have a “coordinated media strategy”, and that they have used it fairly effectively - given the inbuilt media bias against them: and moreover:
4. Those Conservatives’ “coordinated” strategy and “fight” seems - so far - to have been a major failure. OK, basing it on bullshit, insult, denialism and CT mania hasn’t helped: but so far, it hasn’t moved the needle much wrt public opinion.

Some people, geeesh….

More people have wanted to impeach Trump than any other President. That’s a fact. In that sense, I would argue that the Dems not only have done their job but done it very well. Yeah some of Trump’s mishaps are self-inflicted wounds but the fact is more Americans want to impeach Trump now than they ever did Nixon for Watergate That means something. Trump is not someone whose legacy will improve with time. In fact, as more comes out about the inner workings of this crooked administration, the more the early Trump critics who saw him as an unique blight on the Presidency will be vindicated. The problem is of course the right wing noise machine and the both siders.

55
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:49:52am

re: #53 Decatur Deb

There was never a realistic chance that impeachment and conviction would remove Trump from office. Given the calculus of risk and reward, the Dems have done about as well as could be expected.

The only cure was, and is, to vote him and his Russian Mafia out resoundingly. Might happen, might not.

There are things to be done, and ten months to do them.

Conviction was always a hail mary. I think Nancy knew that but we have a case that shows Trump’s contempt for the Constitution and his fellow Republican’s willingness to go along with that to protect him and their own asses. It’s unlikely we’ll convict him but we are creating a necessary precedent with impeachment. Trump needs to be impeached so future Trumps don’t see that nothing was done and they can abuse the office the same way. Trump thinks it’s just a vendetta against him. He and his follow cultists are too narrow minded to realize that it’s about drawing a line in the sand against future abuses of power like this.

56
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:55:46am

re: #52 lawhawk

“What that guy did was awful, but he still has my balls in a vise so I can’t be THAT mean to him.”

57
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 7:59:46am

re: #55 HappyWarrior

Conviction was always a hail mary. I think Nancy knew that but we have a case that shows Trump’s contempt for the Constitution and his fellow Republican’s willingness to go along with that to protect him and their own asses. It’s unlikely we’ll convict him but we are creating a necessary precedent with impeachment. Trump needs to be impeached so future Trumps don’t see that nothing was done and they can abuse the office the same way. Trump thinks it’s just a vendetta against him. He and his follow cultists are too narrow minded to realize that it’s about drawing a line in the sand against future abuses of power like this.

this is being amply demonstrated by mcconnell and lindsey right now

which is why the dems must hammer that as innocent as trump claims to be, the senate republicans are petrified to hold an honest and fair trial

58
Interesting Times  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:05:30am

re: #51 Jay C

2. How have “the Dems fumbled the ball”? Because Trump is still in office? SRSLY?

If you read the Peter Daou piece I linked a bit earlier, it comes down to a more fundamental point re values:

The dichotomy between the glowing perceptions of Pelosi and her real world actions is perfectly illustrated by her now-iconic clap during Trump’s 2019 State of the Union speech. To this day, that gesture is put forth as incontrovertible proof that Pelosi alone has the power to “rattle” Trump. In reality, Pelosi confirmed that she was clapping for Trump. “It wasn’t sarcastic,” Pelosi explained. The Democratic Speaker — the party leader — felt it was appropriate to applaud a president who has stoked neo-Nazi terrorism, abused migrant families, incited violence against the free press, coddled dictators, alienated allies, and who poses (according to her) a “threat” to the Constitution.

To add insult to injury, Pelosi has willingly given Trump legislative wins that will boost his reelection chances, including extending the Patriot Act, passing a massive military budget with a “Space Force,” and bizarrely, announcing a trade bill an hour after Democratic leaders unveiled Articles of Impeachment. Perhaps most egregiously, as Trump was torturing asylum-seeking families in the spring of 2019, Pelosi said she was praying for him and that she and Chuck Schumer “had hoped to give him a signature infrastructure achievement.”

Unfortunately for America and the world, Pelosi’s impeachment-lite approach — where Trump is effectively exonerated for every heinous abuse of power except trying to cheat to beat Joe Biden — is an epic failure, with a slim majority of Americans in a recent USA TODAY/Suffolk University poll opposing conviction and removal in the Senate.

The argument about giving trump a “legislative win” is one Rick Wilson had made as well, and I interpret the subtext as, “low-info voters are far too dumb to figure out the whole “act like an adult” nuance - they think in black and white terms, so if Dems are willing to work with trump on some issues, he must not be that bad after all. Muddled messaging, in other words. And the whole “crimes against humanity aren’t impeachable but a policy difference” has deeply sinister connotations, as well (though if Pelosi made a political calculus that swing-state voters don’t give a shit about caged children, well…I guess that says more about certain segments of the American public than her).

59
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:08:16am

re: #52 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Did I expect that wimp to say anything else? Nope…

60
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:13:52am

I see “Richard Jewell’ bombed at the box office.

Can’t say I’m sad to see that.

61
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:16:01am

re: #60 Eclectic Cyborg

I see “Richard Jewell’ bombed at the box office.

Can’t say I’m sad to see that.

Just another piece of RWNJ propaganda from Clint Eastwood.

62
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:18:08am

re: #61 Joe Bacon 🌹

Just another piece of RWNJ propaganda from Clint Eastwood.

It’s sad that Eastwood has gone that route. The last movie of his I really thought was honestly thoughtful was Flags of our Fathers.

63
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:26:17am

re: #60 Eclectic Cyborg

I see “Richard Jewell’ bombed at the box office.

Can’t say I’m sad to see that.

I am not defending the Eastwood film — my comment is a general remark. Whether a movie succeeds or bombs usually has nothing to do with the quality or honesty of the movie but rather how it engages the audience or whether there is an existing fan base. It is not unusual for serious or thoughtful films to fail.

64
Targetpractice  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:27:14am

re: #58 Interesting Times

If you read the Peter Daou piece I linked a bit earlier, it comes down to a more fundamental point re values:

The argument about giving trump a “legislative win” is one Rick Wilson had made as well, and I interpret the subtext as, “low-info voters are far too dumb to figure out the whole “act like an adult” nuance - they think in black and white terms, so if Dems are willing to work with trump on some issues, he must not be that bad after all. Muddled messaging, in other words. And the whole “crimes against humanity aren’t impeachable but a policy difference” has deeply sinister connotations, as well (though if Pelosi made a political calculus that swing-state voters don’t give a shit about caged children, well…I guess that says more about certain segments of the American public than her).

As someone who spent much of the first half of this year criticizing Dem moderates in general and Pelosi in particular for not taking impeachment seriously, it can sound odd for me to say that I feel she’s done about as well as she can with what she has. I read a post over at No More Mr. Nice Blog that criticized her actions as more about going through the motions while keeping the party moderates happy by not pursuing a more robust impeachment process and I can see validity in the position.

But unless one really believes that there was a process that would have left Trumpublicans with no choice but to vote for his removal, then the reality has always been that this was going to lead to “acquittal.” And in that reality, adopting a “kitchen sink approach” of tossing every possible charge at the man in the hopes of “making a point” was too much risk for too little reward. Do we really want Donny to be able to spend the next 10+ months insisting that he’d been “acquitted” of all these charges?

65
Decatur Deb  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:29:06am
There are things to be done, and ten months to do them.

The thing we did yesterday:

wtvy.com

66
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:29:58am

re: #62 HappyWarrior

It’s sad that Eastwood has gone that route. The last movie of his I really thought was honestly thoughtful was Flags of our Fathers.

Given Eastwood’s behavior at the 2012 GOP convention, why should this surprise anyone?

67
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:36:42am

re: #2 Eclectic Cyborg

There are medical conditions that can make people appear dead when they are in fact alive. Someone in a prolonged vegetative state or a coma for example.

Dead, by definition is dead. If a person presumed dead then reanimates, then it means they were never dead in the first place.

This all reminds us that if you insist on being a Biblical literalist, you have to reject science, history and even basic logic, as the Scriptures contradict themselves in numerous places.

68
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:37:05am

re: #66 Hecuba’s daughter

Given Eastwood’s behavior at the 2012 GOP convention, why should this surprise anyone?

It doesn’t. But it’s still sad.

69
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:40:39am

re: #31 plansbandc

I don’t want to know if that paw belongs to a live animal or not…

70
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:42:31am

re: #55 HappyWarrior

Conviction was always a hail mary. I think Nancy knew that but we have a case that shows Trump’s contempt for the Constitution and his fellow Republican’s willingness to go along with that to protect him and their own asses.

It gives Dems a rallying cry in 2020: “Get out there and do the job that the GOP Senate was too cowardly to finish!”

71
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:43:50am

thegreatpoolpondconversion - 191215 edition ———————>

72
danarchy  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:45:47am

re: #36 Belafon

Does anyone have actual documentation on what Schumer was saying back during Clinton’s impeachment?

I think this is the quote that is being referenced:

“It seems to me that no good case has been made for witnesses,” Schumer said during a press conference on Jan. 27, 1999.

Days later, he argued that there was no reason to call witnesses, saying: “I wonder if the House managers aren’t a little more interested in political theater than in actually getting to the bottom of the facts.”

73
Jay C  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:49:03am

re: #58 Interesting Times

If you read the Peter Daou piece I linked a bit earlier, it comes down to a more fundamental point re values:

I did read it, and was seriously underwhelmed: to me, Daou’s rant (utterly valid as it may be re Trump’s unique heinousness) is a sad example of magical thinking, as applied to the whole impeachment affair.

Yes, “values” are certainly important, except that the impeachment process is not going to playing out as a matter of values: it is a battle that is going to be fought on the fronts of Constitutional procedure, political maneuvering, and PR/media manipulation.
And Speaker Pelosi (as I have opined above) is doing/has done as good a job managing the process as she can, in the circumstances.

I’m sure Daou would greatly prefer it (as would I) if Nancy Pelosi could just wave a wand and magick Donald Trump off to Guantanamo for the rest of his life, but that ain’t gonna happen. And penning lengthy screeds about how awful it is that the Speaker is actually doing legislating, or “applauding” Trump over trivialities isn’t going to make it so, either.

74
lawhawk  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:52:04am

Impeach Trump, but she’ll vote for him regardless of the circumstances.

This is the GOP. Party above nation. Even these never/maybe Trumpers will vote Trump when push comes to shove, because how dare we think of anything other than tax cuts for millionaires, stripping health coverage from millions, hiking health costs to those with preexisting conditions, and gutting civil and voting rights for minorities?

75
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:52:15am

re: #73 Jay C

In a sane world, we would not need a Mueller Report or a Steele Dossier or impeachment hearings. Trump’s conflicts of interest and violations of the Emoluments Clause are blatant and egregious, but as long as his party is going to overlook them, then he will never be taken to task.

76
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:55:04am

This is a good article (1& half old) but a good in depth article by a collegue at the University of Toronto, in fact the guy who reccomended him for the job.

77
Targetpractice  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:55:32am

re: #72 danarchy

I think this is the quote that is being referenced:

Given that the primary witness that Repubs wanted to put on the stand was Lewinsky, and that they were not shy about the desire to do so in order to further embarrass the WH by having her describe the affair, I could argue that he had a valid point.

By contrast, the witnesses that he and Senate Dems are requesting be subpoenaed are those that one would think would exonerate Trump if he’d done nothing wrong or illegal. They fit the criteria that the Repubs insist are vital to getting the “facts” of the whole mess: First-hand witnesses who listened in on the call and had direct communications with Trump both before and after.

78
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:56:06am

re: #74 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Impeach Trump, but she’ll vote for him regardless of the circumstances.

This is the GOP. Party above nation. Even these never/maybe Trumpers will vote Trump when push comes to shove, because how dare we think of anything other than tax cuts for millionaires, stripping health coverage from millions, hiking health costs to those with preexisting conditions, and gutting civil and voting rights for minorities?

Yeesh

79
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:56:48am

This could work

80
BigPapa  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:57:32am

Amazing when I tangle with Trumpers or deranged leftists on twitter, after a short exchange at attempted good faith arguments I tell them to F off or STFU and block them.

Immediately I get a Twitter Timeout/Limited Functions notice for 12 hours. Click the OK Go To Twitter, and lo and behold, no Limted Functions. It’s almost as if somebody reported me quickly, or I got Al Gore Rhythm’d. Could be either. Just because a swear word or something.

Twitter is wacky.

81
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:58:14am

A theory

82
jaunte  Dec 16, 2019 • 8:58:18am

re: #74 lawhawk

Maybe/Never Ethical Party

83
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:00:06am
84
Teukka  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:00:18am

re: #81 gocart mozart

A theory

[Embedded content]

Ooo. Nice quality tinfoil!

85
The Pie Overlord!  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:00:53am

re: #80 BigPapa

Amazing when I tangle with Trumpers or deranged leftists on twitter, after a short exchange at attempted good faith arguments I tell them to F off or STFU and block them.

Immediately I get a Twitter Timeout/Limited Functions notice for 12 hours. Click the OK Go To Twitter, and lo and behold, no Limted Functions. It’s almost as if somebody reported me quickly, or I got Al Gore Rhythm’d. Could be either. Just because a swear word or something.

Twitter is wacky.

I don’t engage Trumporrhoids or Berners on Twitter. I just block them on sight. VB’s suspension has made me gun-shy.

86
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:01:30am

re: #79 gocart mozart

rich people hate taxes, so i propose we rebrand the wealth tax and instead call it “dues” or “membership fee” and then when someone pays over $1 billion in taxes we send them a shiny black card that says “government recognized billionaire”. this will work.

This is akin to the Swiss approach: although one’s tax returns are not public, the actual amount in taxes that one pays is a matter of record and is posted for all to see. This has led to examples of people actually paying more taxes than necessary in order to impress the community.

It is akin to what Mitt Romney tried to pull in 2011: he put off some deductions to raise his rate above 14% so it would appear that he paid nearly as much as any MacDonald’s employee…

87
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:03:37am
88
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:04:21am
89
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:04:35am
90
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:05:36am
91
Teukka  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:05:44am

re: #81 gocart mozart

A theory

[Embedded content]

92
Dr Lizardo  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:06:36am

re: #83 gocart mozart

So, WWII is about to get underway for the good folks in the neighborhood of Aldebaran (well, provided there are any).

93
Interesting Times  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:06:40am

re: #81 gocart mozart

A theory

[Embedded content]

The obvious rebuttal to this is, if the GOP had the power to rig votes all the way down, how did so many Dems win the House/close elections in 2018 and special elections since? (esp. in GOPer-controlled, deep-red states like KY and Louisiana). Did they get spooked and figure more vote-tampering would be too obvious? Or did they look at GA and figure out their old-school voter-suppression techniques would suffice?

94
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:07:27am

The french actress, Anna Kerina, died yesterday. He she is in a couple of films

95
Teukka  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:09:08am

re: #91 Teukka

[Embedded content]

96
BigPapa  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:09:49am

I read the IG report Exec Summary 19 pages. Decided to start over and read the Mueller report ‘fresh’ and all the way through, then I’m going to read the IG report. I’ve already read the Steele Dossier and Steele legal team’s response to the IG report. I’ll probably do a write up of my opinions on it because nobody asked me and I’m going to tell you anyway.

Twitter version: Papadopoulous:

After reading through George’s activities I’m left with a feeling that this is why you don’t have business people play in international politics or statecraft. GP was really antsy to hook up with Russians and they were antsy to keep it going. He sold himself to Clovis as connected and lobbied himself to Team Trump, got in the door, kept up the Russian connection angle. They finally told GP to cool his tits because they knew it was getting hot, firing him when it got too hot. They knew it was wrong, they knew there was too much heat coming. There is no evidence in email/text that George said ‘Russians said they have the emails.’ But it’s sort of moot after Jr hooked up with Veselnitskaya and Stone did his thing. Next: Carter Page.

97
jaunte  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:09:50am

Finally we can help preserve the struggling community of NFL owners.

98
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:11:05am
99
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:11:29am

re: #97 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Finally we can help preserve the struggling community of NFL owners.

But I thought Trump thought all those NFL people were unpatriotic losers for kneeling during the anthem?

//

100
BigPapa  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:11:30am

re: #85 The Pie Overlord!

I don’t engage Trumporrhoids or Berners on Twitter. I just block them on sight. VB’s suspension has made me gun-shy.

I hear ya. I usually give 2-3 tweets to see if there will be an exchange of value but end up saying F Off or STFU and block. That’s pretty much it, don’t say much else.

101
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:11:58am

re: #77 Targetpractice

Given that the primary witness that Repubs wanted to put on the stand was Lewinsky, and that they were not shy about the desire to do so in order to further embarrass the WH by having her describe the affair, I could argue that he had a valid point.

By contrast, the witnesses that he and Senate Dems are requesting be subpoenaed are those that one would think would exonerate Trump if he’d done nothing wrong or illegal. They fit the criteria that the Repubs insist are vital to getting the “facts” of the whole mess: First-hand witnesses who listened in on the call and had direct communications with Trump both before and after.

with Clinton - the R’s wanted to put up witnesses who already testified and were on record.

here the D’s want to put up witnesses who have not yet testified due to the abuse of power by the president

this is what happens when they claim things and omit crucial and relevant context

102
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:12:32am

His claim contradicts the Data (rimshot)

103
jaunte  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:12:48am

re: #99 Eclectic Cyborg

Hugo Chavez had a fetish for building a lot of big sports stadiums, too.

104
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:14:27am
105
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:15:09am
106
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:16:15am

re: #102 gocart mozart

His claim contradicts the Data (rimshot)

[Embedded content]

No one cared about Merry Christmas. We just understood why Starbucks would say Happy Holidays. This shit is ridiculous and I blame John Gibson and FNC for making this an issue. Stupid bullshit.

107
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:16:37am
108
jaunte  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:16:43am

re: #102 gocart mozart

Good to see all the victims decorating their seasonal strawmen with brightly colored anecdotes.

109
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:16:54am
110
lawhawk  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:17:54am

re: #83 gocart mozart

So, Vega could be more than ready to send back Hitler videos with embedded instructions on how to make a worm/gate

111
lawhawk  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:18:24am
112
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:18:50am

re: #109 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Okay I’m honestly exhausted by those who blame boomers for all societal problems as much as the next guy but don’t compare a fucking glib remark to antisemitism.

113
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:21:06am

If you go to the 40 minute mark, he is asked about the ok symbol and says in 2016 it was a sign to signal Trump support but in 2017 it became a signal of white supremacy.

Here it is on YouTube to avoid linking to Drudge

114
Teddy's Person  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:21:47am

re: #91 Teukka

I think some of them have skeletons in the closet, but more importantly, they all know that Trump will lie about anything. Lies that the media and Trumpers will lap up with a spoon. So, even if there are no skeletons, Trump has the power to ruin their careers with lies. Hell, all Trump wanted from Ukraine was an announcement not an actual investigation. I suspect that Lindsay learned on that golf course that he and his colleagues are well and truly fucked by a man with no scruples and no loyalty. While Lindsay and his buddies have no scruples either, they except Republicans to be loyal to Republicans. Now, they’ve got the tiger by the tail and can’t let go. And like Trump, they don’t care who they hurt to maintain their egos and hold onto power.

115
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:23:04am

Bing Crosby, noted SJW was singing about Happy Holiday in the 40’s. Christmas songs still have been written. If you can’t accept that Christmas isn’t the only important holiday during the early winter and resent that, that’s your problem. I still love putting up my tree but not everyone celebrates Christmas and that’s fine.

116
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:23:33am

re: #113 gocart mozart

If you go to the 40 minute mark, he is asked about the ok symbol and says in 2016 it was a sign to signal Trump support but in 2017 it became a signal of white supremacy.

[Embedded content]

Watson is a miserable pissant.

117
gocart mozart  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:26:04am

re: #116 HappyWarrior

True and also the least crazy person at InfoWars

118
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:26:33am

re: #117 gocart mozart

True and also the least crazy person at InfoWars

Hard to do haha.

119
lawhawk  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:26:55am

re: #115 HappyWarrior

Bing Crosby, noted SJW was singing about Happy Holiday in the 40’s. Christmas songs still have been written. If you can’t accept that Christmas isn’t the only important holiday during the early winter and resent that, that’s your problem. I still love putting up my tree but not everyone celebrates Christmas and that’s fine.

So many of the famous Christmas songs were written by … Jews.

No one seems to care when they say Merry Christmas to a Jew, but if someone says Happy Holidays, these right wing lunatics get their undies in a bunch as if society is collapsing. Saying Happy Holidays is a recognition that there’s more to this season than just Christmas. There are people who celebrate other holidays (or no holiday at all).

We get Christmas crap spewed by commercial outfits from Labor Day forward. We have four months of this. Some stores load up on Christmas stuff in August. Why? Because it’s a war on Christmas? They’ve got to stock up.

120
Teukka  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:27:44am

re: #114 Teddy’s Person

I think some of them have skeletons in the closet, but more importantly, they all know that Trump will lie about anything. Lies that the media and Trumpers will lap up with a spoon. So, even if there are no skeletons, Trump has the power to ruin their careers with lies. Hell, all Trump wanted from Ukraine was an announcement not an actual investigation. I suspect that Lindsay learned on that golf course that he and his colleagues are well and truly fucked by a man with no scruples and no loyalty. While Lindsay and his buddies have no scruples either, they except Republicans to be loyal to Republicans. Now, they’ve got the tiger by the tail and can’t let go. And like Trump, they don’t care who they hurt to maintain their egos and hold onto power.

And I suspect that when caught, the Russian Federation will really lash out…

121
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:27:57am

re: #113 gocart mozart

If you go to the 40 minute mark, he is asked about the ok symbol and says in 2016 it was a sign to signal Trump support but in 2017 it became a signal of white supremacy.

[Embedded content]

aside from the obvious idiocy of this ‘explanation’ - i still dont get why they have to ‘signal’ with some obscure finger sign

there are so many of you and you want to show your support, right?
acknowledge each other, right?
well let your freak flag fly.

wear a maga hat.
oh, not appropriate in the circumstances?
how about a lapel pin next to your flag pin? that would have been easy

wear it proudly for all to see.
what are you afraid of?

122
sagehen  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:29:38am

re: #62 HappyWarrior

It’s sad that Eastwood has gone that route. The last movie of his I really thought was honestly thoughtful was Flags of our Fathers.

I really enjoyed Jersey Boys.

123
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:32:34am

re: #119 lawhawk

So many of the famous Christmas songs were written by … Jews.

No one seems to care when they say Merry Christmas to a Jew, but if someone says Happy Holidays, these right wing lunatics get their undies in a bunch as if society is collapsing. Saying Happy Holidays is a recognition that there’s more to this season than just Christmas. There are people who celebrate other holidays (or no holiday at all).

We get Christmas crap spewed by commercial outfits from Labor Day forward. We have four months of this. Some stores load up on Christmas stuff in August. Why? Because it’s a war on Christmas? They’ve got to stock up.

Christmas is big $$$$. Acknowledging that we who celebrate it share the season with Jews such as yourself and others gets in the way of that I guess. One of my first memories learning about other winter holidays was when my second grade teacher made the class latkes and told us about dreidels. The cool thing was later discovering that my grandmother’s parents culture also has potato pancakes. I very much believe the beauty of this country is how we have people of so many backgrounds who share it.

124
makeitstop  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:32:45am

re: #81 gocart mozart

A theory

[Embedded content]

I still think it is rape-prostitution, maybe even murder - and in the worst cases a combination of all of it. And I think Russia played to each congress person’s ‘proclivities,’ catching a whole lot of them in situations that would destroy them politically and professionally.

And I believe that it’s not Russia doing the blackmailing - I believe they gave the kompromat to Trump, to use as needed on choice members of Congress like Graham and Rand Paul.

And I also believe that instead of helping the GOP in the 2020 election, there’s a roughly equal chance that Russia will leak the kompromat on the GOP this time.

Putin’s goal, after all, is chaos. What better way to generate such chaos than setting up Trump and his cult to think they’re bulletproof and then outing the lot of them on every nasty, tawdry thing they’ve done?

125
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:33:31am

re: #122 sagehen

I really enjoyed Jersey Boys.

I forgot he directed that. He’s a talented director. I would say even more so than actor but he’s become a bit of a grump in his old age.

126
sagehen  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:34:32am

re: #76 gocart mozart

This is a good article (1& half old) but a good in depth article by a collegue at the University of Toronto, in fact the guy who reccomended him for the job.

[Embedded content]

PAYWALL

127
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:35:07am

re: #124 makeitstop

I still think it is rape-prostitution, maybe even murder - and in the worst cases a combination of all of it. And I think Russia played to each congress person’s ‘proclivities,’ catching a whole lot of them in situations that would destroy them politically and professionally.

And I believe that it’s not Russia doing the blackmailing - I believe they gave the kompromat to Trump, to use as needed on choice members of Congress like Graham and Rand Paul.

And I also believe that instead of helping the GOP in the 2020 election, there’s a roughly equal chance that Russia will leak the kompromat on the GOP this time.

Putin’s goal, after all, is chaos. What better way to generate such chaos than setting up Trump and his cult to think they’re bulletproof and then outing the lot of them on every nasty, tawdry thing they’ve done?

Sounds right to me. I wouldn’t be surprised to see embarrassing information on prominent GOPsrs leak.

128
lawhawk  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:36:08am

re: #124 makeitstop

I’d got a step further.

The GOP isn’t being extorted based on kompromat.

The GOP is willingly going down this path because they think that this will preserve their power for the long term (or indefinitely). Siding with Russia and taking foreign money will cover for the fact that they are a minority party and demographics will make that more stark in coming years.

Trump is beholden to so many people that he’s a walking textbook example of what not to do - ever. The GOP didn’t care, because they got to use Trump to cover for their packing the courts with right wing extremists for the next 30-40 years.

130
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:38:40am
President Trump confirmed earlier reports that he might not take part in the official debates scheduled by the Commission on Presidential Debates, arguing the group is “stacked with Trump Haters & Never Trumpers.”

how would they ‘rig’ a presidential debate?

by asking questions
maybe also by enforcing the negotiated rules

because everyone knows his shtick now

131
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:40:10am

re: #125 HappyWarrior

I forgot he directed that. He’s a talented director. I would say even more so than actor but he’s become a bit of a grump in his old age.

he was very good in the mule

132
Teukka  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:40:23am

re: #128 lawhawk

I’d got a step further.

The GOP isn’t being extorted based on kompromat.

The GOP is willingly going down this path because they think that this will preserve their power for the long term (or indefinitely). Siding with Russia and taking foreign money will cover for the fact that they are a minority party and demographics will make that more stark in coming years.

Trump is beholden to so many people that he’s a walking textbook example of what not to do - ever. The GOP didn’t care, because they got to use Trump to cover for their packing the courts with right wing extremists for the next 30-40 years.

That’s what I suspect, that a lot of the right wing in the West has been sold on some global conservative/fash alliance, or promised a slice of the territory if they play along…

133
sagehen  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:42:05am

re: #81 gocart mozart

A theory

[Embedded content]

It could be plausible, except…

How could that many people keep that big a secret and not have evidence be spilling out all over the place?

134
Eventual Carrion  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:42:08am

re: #83 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

I cannot read red lettering on a black background. Do I just have old eyes?

135
makeitstop  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:42:35am

re: #104 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Whoever she is, I love her.

136
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:43:31am

We’re all products of that re: #130 Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)

how would they ‘rig’ a presidential debate?

by asking questions
maybe also by enforcing the negotiated rules

because everyone knows his shtick now

He really proves what I think- that everyone who doesn’t kiss his ass is seen as a never Trumper and yes his act is very predictable and pathetic.

137
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:45:04am

re: #133 sagehen

It could be plausible, except…

How could that many people keep that big a secret and not have evidence be spilling out all over the place?

three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead - b. franklin

138
Teukka  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:45:27am

re: #133 sagehen

It could be plausible, except…

How could that many people keep that big a secret and not have evidence be spilling out all over the place?

Big enough threat if they rat out would be one plausible method. Another is that they know that it’s far more than just themselves they will expose, and they will spend the rest of their lives hiding or on the run from justice…

139
Amory Blaine  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:46:02am

Eastwood dropped this movie now to extrapolate a connection between Jewel and Trump e.g. Trump is being railroaded. It is excellent use of propaganda.

140
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:46:11am

trump’s hit 15k lies - about 15 a day

141
Sufficient unto the day...  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:47:42am

re: #137 Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)

The Pierces “Secret” live

142
lawhawk  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:48:28am

re: #129 Amory Blaine

Corporations paid 11.3 percent tax rate last year, in steep drop under President Trump’s law

Surprising absolutely no one. It was always a corporate giveaway, and the effective rate paid has dropped from roughly 20% down to 11.3%.

Meanwhile, personal income tax effective rates likewise benefit the richest of Americans with the lowest rates they’ve seen in decades. Everyone else is paying the burden - and have to set aside a higher percentage of money for their tax obligations.

In a November 2019 phone interview with Capital & Main, Zucman described how he perceives the U.S. tax system — as a giant flat tax where each segment of the population, except for the wealthiest Americans, commits around 25% to 30% of its income in taxes. The wealthiest Americans pay a lesser rate of 23%, which means that the tax system becomes regressive at the top.

A big part of that discrepancy is because we tax capital gains differently - long term gains are taxed at a lower rate than short term gains, or income. So a millionaire who socks away lots of stock can pay far less in tax as a percentage of their income thanks to these legal tax shelters.

143
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:48:35am

re: #115 HappyWarrior

Bing Crosby, noted SJW was singing about Happy Holiday in the 40’s. Christmas songs still have been written. If you can’t accept that Christmas isn’t the only important holiday during the early winter and resent that, that’s your problem. I still love putting up my tree but not everyone celebrates Christmas and that’s fine.

They tried making a big thing about the War on Christmas in Germany, but it did not get taken up by the media. People have Christmas traditions that are both rooted in Christianity, and others that are obviously a heck of a lot older.

And basically, everybody loves a good Christmas market with mulled wine, bratwursts, handicrafts, wooden toys, manger scenes with live animals, etc.

Heck, a lady named Käthe Wolfarth started a chain of stores that sell Christmas ornaments year-round in all the tourist centers like Rüdesheim, Nürnberg and Rothenburg ob der Tauber.

144
sagehen  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:51:21am

re: #94 gocart mozart

The french actress, Anna Kerina, died yesterday. He she is in a couple of films

[Embedded content]

Are you sure that’s not Zoey Deschanel?

145
HappyWarrior  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:56:40am

re: #143 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

They tried making a big thing about the War on Christmas in Germany, but it did not get taken up by the media. People have Christmas traditions that are both rooted in Christianity, and others that are obviously a heck of a lot older.

And basically, everybody loves a good Christmas market with mulled wine, bratwursts, handicrafts, wooden toys, manger scenes with live animals, etc.

Heck, a lady named Käthe Wolfarth started a chain of stores that sell Christmas ornaments year-round in all the tourist centers like Rüdesheim Nürnberg and Rothenburg ov der Tauber.

Germans I think are probably more aware of propaganda when they see it than Americans are.

146
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 16, 2019 • 9:57:31am

re: #142 lawhawk

A big part of that discrepancy is because we tax capital gains differently - long term gains are taxed at a lower rate than short term gains, or income. So a millionaire who socks away lots of stock can pay far less in tax as a percentage of their income thanks to these legal tax shelters.

We are supposed to be incentivizing Job Creators, not tax havens.

147
lawhawk  Dec 16, 2019 • 10:00:05am
148
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 16, 2019 • 10:01:40am

re: #145 HappyWarrior

Germans I think are probably more aware of propaganda when they see it than Americans are.

They have the Bild-Zeitung, but nothing like Fox News.

149
ericblair  Dec 16, 2019 • 10:03:46am

re: #58 Interesting Times

If you read the Peter Daou piece I linked a bit earlier, it comes down to a more fundamental point re values:

The argument about giving trump a “legislative win” is one Rick Wilson had made as well, and I interpret the subtext as, “low-info voters are far too dumb to figure out the whole “act like an adult” nuance - they think in black and white terms, so if Dems are willing to work with trump on some issues, he must not be that bad after all. Muddled messaging, in other words.

I listened to the discussion on this on Pod Save America. Thing is, NAFTA 2.0 provides better worker and environmental protections than the current agreement, and realistically Trump did get rolled on this. The AFL-CIO came out in favor of it. The substantial argument against it was that a future Dem president could negotiate a better one: yes, maybe, but they didn’t talk about Canada or Mexico at all, who have something to say about it. The political argument is that you’re handing Trump a “win” that he can brag about in the rust belt.

Yes, he probably will brag about it, and he’ll make up a whole bunch of shit with it as well (millions of jobs! Billions of steel mills!). However, if the Dems block it, he can truthfully say that the Demon-crats killed the deal that would give working people millions! of jobs! because they wanted to hurt ME, and he’d actually be right. (Maybe tens of thousands over several years, realistically.)

150
lawhawk  Dec 16, 2019 • 10:16:23am

Van Drew has a challenger.

151
sagehen  Dec 16, 2019 • 10:20:21am

re: #139 Amory Blaine

Eastwood dropped this movie now to extrapolate a connection between Jewel and Trump e.g. Trump is being railroaded. It is excellent use of propaganda.

I haven’t seen it, but I read several reviews lamenting that he ruined a film that could have otherwise made several important points.

Problem 1: he slandered the woman from AJC, suggesting that instead of proper investigative journalism she was sleeping with sources to get stories

Problem 2: he let FBI agents off the hook for their egregious incompetence, by smushing them into composite characters that none of the real people were blamed for their fuckups.

152
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Dec 16, 2019 • 10:32:45am

re: #81 gocart mozart

A theory

[Embedded content]

Well, you have to figure in part that the RNC emails that were hacked and never have seen the light of day have a lot about inside deals, racism, vote fixing and suppression, and probably more than a few screeds about how stupid the GOP rank and file and evangelicals are and how easily they can be played.

153
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Dec 16, 2019 • 10:42:27am

re: #132 Teukka

That’s what I suspect, that a lot of the right wing in the West has been sold on some global conservative/fash alliance, or promised a slice of the territory if they play along…

So essentially Pournelle’s CoDominium will form.

154
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Dec 16, 2019 • 10:46:05am

re: #146 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

We are supposed to be incentivizing Job Creators, not tax havens.

Well part of that is that long-term capital gains is not profit chasing as compared to short-term gains since the stock has to be help at least six months and is usually held longer than that.

So arguably in part it is about job creation since that’s more of a traditional stock corporation activity as compared to short-term buy and dump or playing with options.

155
Jebediah, RBG  Dec 16, 2019 • 11:44:20am

re: #39 makeitstop

Stock images, Canadian style

Canadian tuxedo!

Now I’m thirsty for maple syrup…


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