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304 comments

1
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:04:13pm
2
gocart mozart  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:04:33pm

Live stream here
nbcnews.com

3
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:05:46pm

Warren: Let’s not substitute one arrogant billionaire for another.

4
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:06:28pm
5
Scottish Dragon  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:07:51pm

Bloomberg getting napalmed.

6
GlutenFreeJesus  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:08:19pm

Zing!

7
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:09:06pm

re: #4 jaunte

Excellent. Bloomberg thinking he can just buy the D nomination is an idea that needs to die in fire.

8
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:11:10pm

Meanwhile Poope Orange Foolius is holding a rally for the foollowers. Are the TV channels showing an empty podium?

9
Scottish Dragon  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:11:22pm

Mayor Pete speaking the fucking truth.

10
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:12:10pm

YOU GO GIRL

11
Mattand  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:13:23pm

re: #7 EPR-radar

Excellent. Bloomberg thinking he can just buy the D nomination is an idea that needs to die in fire.

Am I being paranoid/ridiculous in thinking Republicans are ratfucking Bloomberg into the Democratic primary?

I mean, what exactly is left-leaning or liberal about this guy? I hope the damn bigot gets curb stomped tonight.

12
b.d. (We're gonna win)  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:15:28pm

Did Biden go home?

13
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:15:29pm

Not just two jobs, but three.

14
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:15:50pm

I hate that it’s Mayo Pete that’s bringing it up, but he’s right that Bernie really needs to get out if he can’t control his online supporters’ threats.

15
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:16:02pm
16
Scottish Dragon  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:16:34pm

Biden seems to think a toothy smile is all he needs.

17
Charles Johnson  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:17:18pm

Bernie’s on the hot seat over his toxic followers, and he’s denying everything.

18
Scottish Dragon  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:17:31pm

Pete speaking that annoying truth again.

19
Scottish Dragon  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:18:27pm

Why is village idiot chuck Todd part of his?

20
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:18:42pm

He’s going to say that choice is a bad thing because the choice is often for profit.

21
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:19:20pm

re: #17 Charles Johnson

Bernie’s on the hot seat over his toxic followers, and he’s denying everything.

That particular fish has thoroughly rotted from the head down. When Sanders and Trump are basically competing to hire from the same pool of spokesliars for senior PR positions, you know there’s a problem.

22
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:20:42pm

re: #16 Scottish Dragon

Biden seems to think a toothy smile is all he needs.

That worked well enough for Carter back in 1976, and it is a strategy that might even work in the kind of melee this debate may end up being.

23
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:20:44pm

Please tell me this is a middle finger.

24
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:21:43pm

Been a very entertaining debate so far!

25
Charles Johnson  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:22:28pm
26
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:24:20pm

Is Biden even in this debate?

27
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:24:39pm
28
b.d. (We're gonna win)  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:24:43pm

We have to come up with a better way to get recognized rather than raising your hand.

29
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:24:44pm

And Bernie brings up Nina Turner as his beacon of good behavior? Yikes.

Why are they ALL screaming? I feel like they’re forming a circular firing squad and it scares the shit out of me.

30
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:25:27pm

There he is!

31
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:25:41pm

re: #26 NO SMOCKING GUN!

Is Biden even in this debate?

Yes, and he may be angrier than Opa Bernie.

32
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:26:22pm

re: #28 b.d. (Is Rush Dead Yet?)

We have to come up with a better way to get recognized rather than raising your hand.

Jeopardy buzzers?

33
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:26:59pm

I just looked it up, and there are still two more debates to go (2/25 and 3/15). JFC.

34
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:28:50pm

Bloomberg talking again after awhile!

35
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:28:56pm

Oh, wow. a moderator is actually calling out Bloomie’s racism!

36
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:29:08pm

re: #33 EPR-radar

I just looked it up, and there are still two more debates to go (2/25 and 3/15). JFC.

I thought about going to Charleston (edit—actually can’t even remember if it’s in Charleston or Columbia—that’s how interested I am)for the one next week, but decided I’d pass. They’re having some big dinner the night before and a luncheon with “first spouses” or whatever. I’ll save my money and give it to Jaime Harrison instead.

Oh—and Bloomberg gives me the creeps.

37
Charles Johnson  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:30:04pm
38
Rightwingconspirator  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:31:00pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

Unprofessional hack.

39
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:31:03pm

re: #36 BeachDem

I thought about going to Charleston for the one next week, but decided I’d pass. They’re having some big dinner the night before and a luncheon with “first spouses” or whatever. I’ll save my money and give it to Jaime Harrison instead.

Oh—and Bloomberg gives me the creeps.

Still better than Trump, if he is the nominee

40
Scottish Dragon  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:32:08pm

Bloomberg wilting under the glare.

41
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:32:53pm

re: #39 NO SMOCKING GUN!

Still better than Trump, if he is the nominee

That goes without saying—blue no matter who is my default. We vote next Saturday 2/29 and I still haven’t made my final choice (torn between Amy and Elizabeth—not going to try to be strategic, because every time I try that, it bites me in the ass.)

42
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:32:54pm
43
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:33:02pm

All right! Calling out Klobucop!

44
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:33:12pm

Warren with the flamethrower

45
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:33:19pm

re: #40 Scottish Dragon

Bloomberg wilting under the glare.

I’m so happy that Bloomberg is shitty at running for president as a Democrat as soon as there’s something he can’t deal with by throwing money at it.

46
Scottish Dragon  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:33:26pm

Just look at him. Looks defeated and unsure. Biden was in command of that exchange .

47
Weaselone  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:34:11pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

He must be compensating for not asking 100% irrelevant questions.

48
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:36:25pm

Now Bernie’s kinda going with BrieBrie’s bullshit about Bernie and Bloomberg’s heart crap being the same. Ugh

49
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:36:30pm

Oy.

Bernie doubling down on his medical lies.

50
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:37:07pm

Stent comparison isn’t going to beat Trump.

51
Scottish Dragon  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:37:14pm

Bernie turning into trump on stage right now

52
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:37:44pm

Trump’s doc scrawled out a letter saying he was the most fit man ever to run for the presidency.

Bernie, you’re full of shit.

53
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:37:49pm

I have to admit, Bernie is sharper than Biden.

54
b.d. (We're gonna win)  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:37:50pm
55
Weaselone  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:37:57pm

re: #50 jaunte

Stent comparison isn’t going to beat Trump.

His money might, but he won’t be the candidate.

56
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:39:05pm

re: #52 Targetpractice

Trump’s doc scrawled out a letter saying he was the most fit man ever to run for the presidency.

Bernie, you’re full of shit.

Well, Trump scrawled it and Dr. Feelgood signed it under duress…

57
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:40:07pm

Good Lord. Have Bloomberg’s lips always moved about as much as Steve Mnuchin’s?

58
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:41:04pm

Mike, you had months to get that shit together before announcing. Stop bullshitting us.

59
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:41:45pm
60
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:41:49pm

re: #58 Targetpractice

Mike, you had months to get that shit together before announcing. Stop bullshitting us.

He’s a bit of an arrogant asshole, isn’t he?

61
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:42:16pm

Seen elsewhere: “Bloomberg? More like Hindenburg.”

LOL. And great news.

62
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:42:36pm

If you hadn’t demanded your minute-and-a-quawter for more than 10 seconds at the head, you might have had a chance to finish this diatribe, Bloomie.

63
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:43:11pm

re: #60 BeachDem

He’s a bit of an arrogant asshole, isn’t he?

It’s an occupational hazard of being a billionaire. They usually lose all ability to relate to people who aren’t asskissers or hirelings.

64
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:44:28pm

Warren is taking no prisoners tonight. Fuckin’ A!

65
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:44:31pm
66
Charles Johnson  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:44:32pm
67
sagehen  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:44:32pm

re: #11 Mattand

Am I being paranoid/ridiculous in thinking Republicans are ratfucking Bloomberg into the Democratic primary?

I mean, what exactly is left-leaning or liberal about this guy? I hope the damn bigot gets curb stomped tonight.

1. Climate change and other environmental policies
2. Gun policies
3. Immigration policies
4. Abortion/contraception policies

68
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:44:41pm

You fucking idiot!

Off-colour jokes are harassment!

This will destroy him with anyone who watches the debate.

The problem is, that’s maybe 20 percent of Dem voters.

69
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:44:41pm

And surprisingly, a lot of folks were upset that Bloomberg was ‘getting to be’ in this debate.

70
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:44:51pm

re: #59 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

[Embedded content]

That makes me sad—I like Amy, but I also like and respect Bakari. Damn, is this shit ever going to be over? (BTW—Bakari was all in for Kamala Harris—and I’m still really sad they drove her out)

71
Scottish Dragon  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:45:09pm

Holy shit that look on warren face would melt titanium steel

72
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:45:16pm
73
bratwurst  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:45:57pm

I didn’t know this about Bloomberg. Fucking hell.

74
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:46:03pm

From what I hear…

75
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:47:00pm

We have to face the fact that the nation’s destiny is based on the votes of people who are much less informed than we are. We can only hope that they will vote Democratic.

76
Scottish Dragon  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:47:20pm

I haven’t seen somebody self destruct on stage like this since Rick Perry has his brain melt

77
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:47:25pm

Well, Bernie, while we’re talking about Bloomberg in 2004, how about you wanting to primary Obama in 2012, shall we?

78
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:48:05pm

Warren shot a campaign in Vegas just to watch it die.

79
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:48:26pm

I’m just listening to the debate. Elizabeth and Joe B are on fire.

80
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:49:07pm

re: #70 BeachDem

That makes me sad—I like Amy, but I also like and respect Bakari. Damn, is this shit ever going to be over? (BTW—Bakari was all in for Kamala Harris—and I’m still really sad they drove her out)

💯!

81
Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:49:39pm

Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren may have just saved their campaigns tonight. Both are brutalizing both Bernie and Bloomberg.

82
Charles Johnson  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:49:42pm
83
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:49:47pm

And there’s Amy, collapsing into a puddle.

84
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:49:51pm

Ouch. That was a terrible tripping over one of the simpler Spanish-language names.

And Klobuchar is pretty nasty about being called out for having been called out.

And now she’s breaking down about thinking she was called dumb.

85
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:51:03pm

Amy’s getting pretty fucking defensive.

86
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:52:02pm

Amazing how a couple of primaries turn the field from a dry lecture into an episode of Jerry Springer.

87
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:52:04pm

Uh oh Amy is self destructing like Jim Phelps tape recorder…

88
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:52:28pm

re: #87 Joe Bacon 🌹

Uh oh Amy is self destructing like Jim Phelps tape recorder…

The Dean Scream wasn’t as devastating.

89
Charles Johnson  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:52:34pm
90
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:53:01pm

Yay Elizabeth.

It is turning into a WWE event. I’m just shaking my head and wishing they had fewer debates.

91
Dread Pirate  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:53:15pm
92
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:53:46pm

Good Lord, this is turning into a Politically Incorrect episode.

Not even an ep of Real Time.

93
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:53:53pm

Before IA: “Hey, let’s get along and work to defeat Trump.”

After IA: “YOU WANT A PIECE OF ME?!”

94
Dave In Austin  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:53:59pm

Is Fat Donny squeaking out there?

95
bratwurst  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:54:29pm
96
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:54:49pm

The debates are not a circular firing squad. They are a chance for candidates to show who they are and to give those with weaknesses exposure to attacks so they can deal with them. The circular firing squad it what happens if, after the race is essentially decided, candidates are still having to deal with each other.

97
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:55:58pm
98
William Lewis  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:56:18pm

re: #71 Scottish Dragon

Holy shit that look on warren face would melt titanium steel

Good. Gives me hope she’ll rebound strongly after tonight.

99
i(m)p(each)sos  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:56:49pm

One of these people MUST beat Trump in a little over nine months from now.

It could yet be any one of them on the stage.

Not one of them is perfect.

Any one of them is going to be infinitely better than what’s there now and what he’ll be emboldened to do in a second term.

I’m seeing a lot of us here working overtime to tear some of these imperfect candidates down.

Tell me what you’re going to do to lift them UP, whichever one of them it ends up being. (Even you, Bernie.)

100
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:57:16pm

So the refs ring the bell and the fighters go back to their corners. So far, Pete and Amy are looking a little deflated but still standing, Liz and Joe are looking a little more feisty tonight, while Mike and Bernie are trying not to hurl their guts out after several body blows.

101
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:57:23pm

re: #96 Belafon

The debates are not a circular firing squad. They are a chance for candidates to show who they are and to give those with weaknesses exposure to attacks so they can deal with them. The circular firing squad it what happens if, after the race is essentially decided, candidates are still having to deal with each other.

This. Super tuesday is less than a month from now, where shit will start getting real in terms of convention delegates. A brutal battle for the nomination that is properly settled when decided is just what the nominee will need as preparation for dealing with Trump, the Republicans and the goddamn both-sides media.

102
Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:58:10pm

Good grief. Mike Bloomberg is running campaign ads during the debate.

103
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:58:34pm

re: #90 BeachDem

Yay Elizabeth.

It is turning into a WWE event. I’m just shaking my head and wishing they had fewer debates.

TBH, on some level, our candidate has to be able to take trump on, and trump is nothing but bombast.

It may not be what I want in a POTUS, but it’s the reality of the times.

104
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:58:52pm

and something they need to realize is that millions of early votes have already been cast in California…including mine for Elizabeth!

105
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:59:20pm
106
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 6:59:36pm

Advantage of listening to the debate on Sirius—No Bloomberg ads…or Steyer’s…

107
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:00:49pm

Joe coughs, leading to weeks of breathless wingnut speculation that he’s dying of a wasting disease.

//

108
Barefoot Grin  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:01:06pm

I guess a Bloomberg campaign works a little bit like supply-side economics.

109
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:02:41pm

re: #108 Barefoot Grin

I guess a Bloomberg campaign works a little bit like supply-side economics.

Do I want to know what would be trickling down on our heads then?

110
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:02:59pm

111
goddamnedfrank  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:03:38pm
112
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:03:52pm
113
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:04:15pm

Warren is brilliant.

114
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:04:40pm
115
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:04:51pm

re: #110 Joe Bacon 🌹

[Embedded content]

And yet, somehow, both ends are going left.

116
Barefoot Grin  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:05:19pm

re: #109 Chrysicat

Do I want to know what would be trickling down on our heads then?

Even from the 1980s I could only think of “trickle-down” in terms of that feeling when you’re a kid and just couldn’t hold it a second longer on a freezing winter day—a moment of warm bliss followed by icy cold misery.

117
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:07:01pm

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

118
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:07:18pm

What the hell is that smirk and dance from Klobuchar while Warren’s tearing her to pieces?

119
Barefoot Grin  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:08:26pm

I fell in love with Warren about 20 years or so ago when I heard her on Fresh Air talking about the evil shit that the credit card companies were doing to us. They would change due dates every three of four months, etc. Little stuff to nickel and dime everyone. She had done her homework very very well.

120
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:08:43pm

Meanwhile:

121
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:09:53pm

NATE SILVER
9:57 PM
I mean, the thing to remember, as I talked about earlier tonight, is that it’s not enough for Bloomberg to merely hold his ground. He has to GAIN more before Super Tuesday to really accumulate enough delegates to become a real threat to win the nomination, or at least to win it without a brokered convention. And tonight is going to make that harder. As to whether it causes some type of downward spiral, I don’t know how to estimate the odds of that. It’s one of the roughest stretches in a debate I’ve seen though for any candidate, though, and it comes at a time when the media coverage round Bloomberg is shifting in the direction of greater scrutiny.

122
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:10:35pm
123
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:11:43pm
124
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:12:06pm
125
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:13:45pm
126
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:14:21pm

Elizabeth is the most impressive person on the stage— by far.

Wonder if she’ll get a sentence of coverage tomorrow. Nah, probably not…

127
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:14:21pm

Warren working for the minority vote.

128
Charles Johnson  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:14:27pm
129
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:15:42pm

re: #125 The Pie Overlord!

Having that last bit be ‘Pocahontas?’ would be perfect.

But Trump will not be in any general election debate.

130
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:15:49pm
131
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:16:21pm

re: #121 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

NATE SILVER
9:57 PM
…. It’s one of the roughest stretches in a debate I’ve seen though for any candidate, though, and it comes at a time when the media coverage round Bloomberg is shifting in the direction of greater scrutiny.

Scrutiny applies only to Democratic candidates — if the media had done a half-way decent job in 2016, there would be no President Trump. The media needs to focus on Trump and his criminality.

132
William Lewis  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:16:34pm

My local classical music DJ just cracked wise at the end of Holst’s Mars (which sounds like the death star blowing up in John Williams soundtrack) that it was the sound of what was left of Bloomberg’s campaign. BOOM!

I was wondering if these shows were prerecorded - I now know they aren’t :D

133
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:17:17pm

Hello Bernie.

134
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:18:08pm

re: #132 William Lewis

My local classical music DJ just cracked wise at the end of Holst’s Mars (which sounds like the death star blowing up in John Williams soundtrack) that it was the sound of what was left of Bloomberg’s campaign. BOOM!

I was wondering if these shows were prerecorded - I now know they aren’t :D

Originally George Lucas wanted to use Holst’s The Planets as the soundtrack for Star Wars!

135
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:18:29pm

Not all oldies are golden.

136
Schweppes7  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:18:44pm

Just made another donation to Warren. The entertainment value and enjoyment I have gotten from her in this debate earned it. I am still pessimistic she can get the nomination but she is by far my favorite remaining candidate!

137
b.d. (We're gonna win)  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:19:03pm

re: #126 BeachDem

Elizabeth is the most impressive person on the stage— by far.

Wonder if she’ll get a sentence of coverage tomorrow. Nah, probably not…

138
Dave In Austin  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:20:25pm
139
I Would Prefer Not To  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:20:29pm

Not listening to the debate. Thanks for the updates. This Warren supporter is happy on what he is hearing. Very happy. She may not win, but she needs to go down fighting…. Sending her more money tomorrow. Love you guys.

140
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:20:42pm

re: #126 BeachDem

Elizabeth is the most impressive person on the stage— by far.

Wonder if she’ll get a sentence of coverage tomorrow. Nah, probably not…

It will be very interesting to see if the US political media tries to erase this debate performance by Warren. Ignoring a good story like this isn’t done unless ownership has ordered it.

141
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:21:18pm
142
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:21:26pm

re: #138 Dave In Austin

I just figured he had a full body Dyson Airblade.

143
i(m)p(each)sos  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:22:22pm

I am a 2 1/2 issue voter.

1. GET TRUMP OUT OF THE OVAL OFFICE and away from the ability to abuse his Executive Branch powers

2. GET HIS CULTISTS OUT OF POWER IN THE SENATE (and keep them in the House minority)

2 1/2. And by so doing, halt the Federalist Society takeover of the Judicial Branch and begin beating it back.

My contention here is that only when those 2 (and a half) things happen in November is there any hope for any other issues, no matter how crucial.

The environment, immigration, economic justice, healthcare reform, LGBTQ+ rights, women’s rights, international relations? They ALL follow from putting Any Democrat in the Oval Office and 51 Democrats in the Senate.

Any Democrat is going to get only a small fraction of their particular personal agenda through a Congress that will still be divided with a loud and very angry Republican minority. I’m OK with that. It means no matter how dangerous you think Any Particular Democrat might be, they’re not going to be able to pull off anything too far out of the Democratic mainstream.

And so if you’re spending all day here or on Twitter (or on Twitter and then reposting it here!) telling me how Any Particular Democrat is going to bring on some kind of apocalyptic nightmare scenario, I’m not feeling you.

We know what THE apocalyptic nightmare scenario is, because we’re in year four of it right now and can’t afford years five through eight.

144
I Would Prefer Not To  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:23:44pm

re: #143 i(m)p(each)sos

I am a 2 1/2 issue voter.

1. GET TRUMP OUT OF THE OVAL OFFICE and away from the ability to abuse his Executive Branch powers

2. GET HIS CULTISTS OUT OF POWER IN THE SENATE (and keep them in the House minority)

2 1/2. And by so doing, halt the Federalist Society takeover of the Judicial Branch and begin beating it back.

My contention here is that only when those 2 (and a half) things happen in November is there any hope for any other issues, no matter how crucial.

The environment, immigration, economic justice, healthcare reform, LGBTQ+ rights, women’s rights, international relations? They ALL follow from putting Any Democrat in the Oval Office and 51 Democrats in the Senate.

Any Democrat is going to get only a small fraction of their particular personal agenda through a Congress that will still be divided with a loud and very angry Republican minority. I’m OK with that. It means no matter how dangerous you think Any Particular Democrat might be, they’re not going to be able to pull off anything too far out of the Democratic mainstream.

And so if you’re spending all day here or on Twitter (or on Twitter and then reposting it here!) telling me how Any Particular Democrat is going to bring on some kind of apocalyptic nightmare scenario, I’m not feeling you.

We know what THE apocalyptic nightmare scenario is, because we’re in year four of it right now and can’t afford years five through eight.

I know that Warren is strong on helping other candidates. Not so much with Bernie or Bloomberg.,

145
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:24:58pm
146
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:25:29pm

re: #136 Schweppes7

Just made another donation to Warren. The entertainment value and enjoyment I have gotten from her in this debate earned it. I am still pessimistic she can get the nomination but she is by far my favorite remaining candidate!

Right there with you—had to change computers to get to my ActBlue account, but she definitely deserves support tonight.

147
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:26:41pm

Remember when people were worried this would turn into Bloomberg vs. Bernie?

148
Dave In Austin  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:26:52pm

We’re headed to Denmark now…..

149
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:26:58pm

Answering a question with a question, Bernie Chávez?

That’s not going to go over well.

150
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:27:52pm
151
Sherlock Hound  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:28:07pm

re: #145 The Pie Overlord!

[Embedded content]

Just like Hillary. She sweats the details, and everyone is like, “ShE’s NoT InSpIrInG!”
Fuck that.

152
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:28:07pm

Bernie gives me a headache. (Bloomberg gives me a stomach ache)

153
bratwurst  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:28:23pm
154
i(m)p(each)sos  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:28:28pm

re: #144 I Would Prefer Not To

I know that Warren is strong on helping other candidates. Not so much with Bernie or Bloomberg.,

You don’t have to sell me on Warren. She’s been at the top of my list since the beginning and still is, in no small part because of the way she’d lift up downticket Democrats.

I agree Bernie wouldn’t. I’m of mixed mind about Bloomberg. The money he’s sending to Stacey Abrams’ group ought to have a huge impact downticket.

155
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:28:35pm

re: #147 Belafon

Remember when people were worried this would turn into Bloomberg vs. Bernie?

This is going to be one hell of a case study in media manipulation of debate results.

Question 1: Will Warren’s good performance be erased?

Question 2: Will Bloomberg’s rotten performance be erased?

156
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:29:09pm

Wow, it took the rich asshole to point out Bernie is a fucking hypocrite.

157
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:29:22pm

Waiting for Bloomberg to bring this up!

158
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:30:24pm

re: #141 The Pie Overlord!

[Embedded content]

Yep, and we’ve seen how well the current businessman is running the country.

159
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:31:03pm

Good answer by Biden

160
Scottish Dragon  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:31:21pm

Bernie got one thing right. We have socialism for the rich and market discipline for everyone else’s.

161
William Lewis  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:31:34pm

re: #153 bratwurst

He forgot to put him in a Hawaiian shirt and holding a M1911 too :D

162
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:32:06pm

Oh, Lord. Bernie’s wealth tax is going to start at a billion and eventually come down to hitting 5 mil, isn’t it?

163
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:32:21pm

re: #160 Scottish Dragon

Bernie got one thing right. We have socialism for the rich and market discipline for everyone else’s.

Same with laws.

164
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:33:04pm

re: #153 bratwurst

[Embedded content]

That actually works for him.

165
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:33:07pm

re: #160 Scottish Dragon

Bernie got one thing right. We have socialism for the rich and market discipline for everyone else’s.

We live in a Golden Society where the billionaires get golden parachutes and everyone else get golden showers!

166
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:33:30pm

re: #163 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

Same with laws.

The words that made me the sickest, that I encountered for the first time in the ‘teens, were “binds but does not protect”. With a side of “protects but does not bind”.

167
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:33:41pm

re: #160 Scottish Dragon

Bernie got one thing right. We have socialism for the rich and market discipline for everyone else’s.

Part of the problem is that very few people can even being to understand what a $ billion really amounts to. E.g., $5000/day for five fucking centuries is about $1 billion.

To get to a Bezos level, that would have to be $600,000 per day for those five centuries.

168
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:33:53pm

“To be liked by Mitch.” Hitting below the belt!

169
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:34:00pm

re: #165 Joe Bacon 🌹

We live in a Golden Society where the billionaires get golden parachutes and everyone else get golden showers!

Best definition of Trickle Down I’ve seen.

170
sagehen  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:34:01pm

re: #143 i(m)p(each)sos

And so if you’re spending all day here or on Twitter (or on Twitter and then reposting it here!) telling me how Any Particular Democrat is going to bring on some kind of apocalyptic nightmare scenario, I’m not feeling you.

We know what THE apocalyptic nightmare scenario is, because we’re in year four of it right now and can’t afford years five through eight.

If Bernie is nominated, I fear the apocalyptic nightmare scenario of not only a McGovern/Mondale scale loss, but also a thrashing down-ticket.

171
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:34:46pm
172
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:36:12pm

re: #169 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

Best definition of Trickle Down I’ve seen.

Nope. This.

173
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:36:33pm

re: #171 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

[Embedded content]

Professor WArren took the night off and Pirate Warren subbed in. “TAKE NO PRISONERS!”

174
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:36:38pm

Well, the media pretty much is going to have to talk about Warren tomorrow, huh?

175
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:36:38pm

re: #171 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

Was that vs. Biden?

176
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:36:40pm

re: #171 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

If you are looking for the candidate that will fight Republicans, there’s your choice.

177
i(m)p(each)sos  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:37:03pm

re: #162 Chrysicat

Oh, Lord. Bernie’s wealth tax is going to start at a billion and eventually come down to hitting 5 mil, isn’t it?

He might propose such a thing.

So what?

Show me how he gets it into a bill that can even be introduced in a Congress with only a narrow D edge… or more so, how he’d get such a thing PASSED, and then I’ll start worrying about it.

178
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:37:05pm

re: #170 sagehen

And so if you’re spending all day here or on Twitter (or on Twitter and then reposting it here!) telling me how Any Particular Democrat is going to bring on some kind of apocalyptic nightmare scenario, I’m not feeling you.

We know what THE apocalyptic nightmare scenario is, because we’re in year four of it right now and can’t afford years five through eight.

If Bernie is nominated, I fear the apocalyptic nightmare scenario of not only a McGovern/Mondale scale loss, but also a thrashing down-ticket.

I don’t think so. Bernie is popular, and the country is a lot less white than in 1972.

179
sagehen  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:37:05pm

re: #158 Belafon

Yep, and we’ve seen how well the current businessman is running the country.

The current businessman inherited oodles, and still went bankrupt repeatedly. Most of his companies failed.

Bloomberg businessman started with nothing, and built a business that makes him now the 8th richest man in America. Also, he’s giving away most of that money.

180
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:38:48pm

re: #179 sagehen

The current businessman inherited oodles, and still went bankrupt repeatedly. Most of his companies failed.

Bloomberg businessman started with nothing, and built a business that makes him now the 8th richest man in America. Also, he’s giving away most of that money.

My opposition to having a businessman as president is almost completely unaffected by whether the businessman in question is good (Bloomberg) or shitty (Trump) at doing business.

181
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:39:12pm
182
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:39:13pm

The janitors are gonna busy tonight with all the blood drawn tonight.

183
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:40:02pm
184
b.d. (We're gonna win)  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:41:39pm

hahahaha

185
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:42:02pm

re: #178 NO SMOCKING GUN!

I don’t think so. Bernie is popular, and the country is a lot less white than in 1972.

Bernie is a socialist. The vast majority of voters, as indicated in polls just last week, are very against socialism… Like 70%+.

186
Rightwingconspirator  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:42:03pm

Apologies for a bit of a rant.
Are all poor folks the same? Are all lower-middle-class people the same? Middle? Are all millionaires the same? And yet some think we are supposed to sit here and presume all billionaires the same. Bloomberg no different than a weapons maker. An energy guy.

Bloomberg is very unlikely to get my vote. But the holier than thou angry post Occupy vision is how you re elect Donald Trump.

187
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:42:13pm

Warren is feisty tonight!

188
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:43:16pm

Biden seemed to gain momentum there for a sec by getting angry over attacks on his family…and then Warren slammed him back to the mat. Ouch.

189
GlutenFreeJesus  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:43:39pm

re: #178 NO SMOCKING GUN!

His popularity is being inflated by Republican ratfuckers.

190
Dave In Austin  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:43:59pm

Interesting article
texasobserver.org

191
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:44:40pm

re: #185 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

Bernie is a socialist. The vast majority of voters, as indicated in polls just last week, are very against socialism… Like 70%+.

He isn’t really a socialist though. I prefer Warren; about the the same, but she doesn’t call herself a socialist.

192
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:44:45pm

re: #184 b.d. (Is Rush Dead Yet?)

hahahaha

[Embedded content]

GEFILTE JOE & THE FISH - Walk On The Kosher Side

193
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:45:12pm
194
bmoak  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:45:13pm

re: #173 Targetpractice

“I am the Dread Pirate Warren. There will be no survivors.”

195
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:45:36pm

re: #186 Rightwingconspirator

Apologies for a bit of a rant.
Are all poor folks the same? Are all lower-middle-class people the same? Middle? Are all millionaires the same? And yet some think we are supposed to sit here and presume all billionaires the same. Bloomberg no different than a weapons maker. An energy guy.

Bloomberg is very unlikely to get my vote. But the holier than thou angry post Occupy vision is how you re elect Donald Trump.

I don’t know anyone on this page who said they wouldn’t vote for Bloomberg if he won the nomination. I will tell everyone to vote for him. I don’t have to sit here, though, and think it’s a good idea for him to be the nominee. And while he’s a great businessman, the government is not a company. And he might have been pretty good for New York, but there were some not nice things going on there, and it’s a city that is both more liberal and richer than a lot of the country.

196
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:45:54pm

re: #186 Rightwingconspirator

Apologies for a bit of a rant.
Are all poor folks the same? Are all lower-middle-class people the same? Middle? Are all millionaires the same? And yet some think we are supposed to sit here and presume all billionaires the same. Bloomberg no different than a weapons maker. An energy guy.

Bloomberg is very unlikely to get my vote. But the holier than thou angry post Occupy vision is how you re elect Donald Trump.

All billionaires have god-like power in the US political and economic system. That’s just a fact. Assuming Trump is, in fact, a billionaire, he is among the worst of the lot, but nobody should have that kind of power. It corrupts, absolutely.

So it remains true that billionaires should not exist as a matter of public policy, and that having one try to buy up the D nomination at a time like this is basically appalling.

197
i(m)p(each)sos  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:46:51pm

re: #178 NO SMOCKING GUN!

I don’t think so. Bernie is popular, and the country is a lot less white than in 1972.

Exactly. Any Democrat (even Bernie) starts out of the gate with 200 or so EVs. California and NY aren’t going Trump, period. That’s close to 100 EVs right there. Nor New England (give or take a Maine EV up north). Nor Hawaii or Washington or Oregon or Delaware or Maryland or NJ. Or Illinois.

The days when any candidate could have the kind of 400 EV sweep that Nixon or Reagan did are gone. Let’s deal with today’s reality.

198
b.d. (We're gonna win)  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:47:16pm
199
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:47:44pm

“I knew Ted Kennedy. Ted Kennedy was my friend. Mayor Buttigieg, you are no Ted Kennedy.”

///

200
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:47:59pm

re: #191 NO SMOCKING GUN!

He isn’t really a socialist though. I prefer Warren; about the the same, but she doesn’t call herself a socialist.

He’s a self-identified socialist. The word alone scares Americans (for no reason other than right wing scaremongering).

I do not think Bernie can in a GE.

201
Ace Rothstein  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:48:02pm

Chuck Todd is a very annoying individual. Also, he needs to let the comb-forward go.

202
Rightwingconspirator  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:48:36pm

re: #196 EPR-radar

All billionaires have god-like power in the US political and economic system. That’s just a fact…

I posit the idea that what they do and how they act with that money is a worthwhile difference to hold in regard. Call me crazy.

203
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:48:48pm

Mayor Pete is really being rude.

204
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:48:58pm

So the non-Democrat says the Democrats’ process for the convention should not be followed, but that the Bernie process should prevail. Alrighty then.

205
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:49:59pm

re: #204 BeachDem

So the non-Democrat says the Democrats’ process for the convention should not be followed, but that the Bernie process should prevail. Alrighty then.

GAH!

206
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:50:37pm

re: #202 Rightwingconspirator

I posit the idea that what they do and how they act with that money is a worthwhile difference to hold in regard. Call me crazy.

Sure, there are differences from one billionaire to another, and it is legit to point out that Bloomberg is probably a more benevolent demigod/overlord than Trump.

It is also legit to point out that such demigods should not exist in the first place.

207
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:50:44pm

And that is what scares me; Sanders supporters thinking he has been cheated if he has the pluarlity but doesn’t win the nomination.

208
b.d. (We're gonna win)  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:51:05pm

Great new hire there for ya CNN:

209
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:51:19pm

re: #207 NO SMOCKING GUN!

And that is what scares me; Sanders supporters thinking he has been cheated if he has the pluarlity but doesn’t win the nomination.

He ain’t getting the plurality.

210
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:51:22pm

re: #205 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

GAH!

And Bloomberg only “assumes” that there’s some kind of process—he really hasn’t worried his little head about it.

211
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:52:22pm
212
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:52:47pm
213
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:54:29pm

re: #209 Joe Bacon 🌹

He ain’t getting the plurality.

The polls right now say he will.

214
Rightwingconspirator  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:54:59pm

re: #206 EPR-radar

Sure, there are differences from one billionaire to another, and it is legit to point out that Bloomberg is probably a more benevolent demigod/overlord than Trump.

It is also legit to point out that such demigods should not exist in the first place.

Agree there. It’s not the money (excatly) but the power, and power surely corrupts.

215
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:55:08pm

re: #213 NO SMOCKING GUN!

The polls right now say he will.

Wait till Super Tuesday when Bernie fizzles.

216
Barefoot Grin  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:55:21pm

re: #201 Ace Rothstein

Chuck Todd is a very annoying individual. Also, he needs to let the comb-forward go.

Or find one other chubby bald guy and another a big forehead and shaggy hair shooting out the sides and back to complete the brand. I can’t remember who would turn to Chuck to say “Oh, a wise guy eh???”

217
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:55:27pm
218
I Would Prefer Not To  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:55:51pm

re: #154 i(m)p(each)sos

You don’t have to sell me on Warren. She’s been at the top of my list since the beginning and still is, in no small part because of the way she’d lift up downticket Democrats.

I agree Bernie wouldn’t. I’m of mixed mind about Bloomberg. The money he’s sending to Stacey Abrams’ group ought to have a huge impact downticket.

Yes, but Bloomberg won’t be able to campaign with others. He’s somewhat toxic.

219
Rightwingconspirator  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:56:00pm

I’m liking Pete more and more.

220
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:56:17pm

Also:

re: #208 b.d. (Is Rush Dead Yet?)

Great new hire there for ya CNN:

[Embedded content]

221
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:56:32pm

re: #212 jaunte

Wake up to what? Like there’s a single military Trump supporter that’s going to go “Well, Biden made a good point about the military, so I’m going to vote for him.” If they’re already Trump supporters, nothings going to change. The rest of them are where we are, hoping our favorite will win, but voting Democrat.

222
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:56:40pm

So there was a lot of yelling and fighting tonight, but it seems like they hardly asked many questions about any issues. I know, we’ve heard it all before—but it seemed like a very shallow debate to me. YMMV

223
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:57:22pm

re: #217 Chrysicat

Isn’t it true that Warren is the only candidate on that stage who has defeated a Republican incumbent? Granted that MA Sen is low-hanging fruit, the point still remains.

224
Scottish Dragon  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:57:35pm

re: #222 BeachDem

So there was a lot of yelling and fighting tonight, but it seems like they hardly asked many questions about any issues. I know, we’ve heard it all before—but it seemed like a very shallow debate to me. YMMV

Huh?

225
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:57:51pm
226
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:57:56pm
227
Dave In Austin  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:58:23pm

WTF was that?

228
Barefoot Grin  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:58:32pm

re: #222 BeachDem

So there was a lot of yelling and fighting tonight, but it seems like they hardly asked many questions about any issues. I know, we’ve heard it all before—but it seemed like a very shallow debate to me. YMMV

I wondered if it was like that the whole way through. I only caught the end.

I’m afraid that one thing they’ve learned is that discussing substantive policy issues is for losers.

229
b.d. (We're gonna win)  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:58:41pm

My take:

Warren won, Biden needed this and exceeded expectations, Bernie was Bernie and the BernieBros will be happy, Pete held his own but didn’t gain any ground, Amy tanked but Bloomberg is toast.

230
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:59:18pm

The fuck was that?

231
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 7:59:25pm

re: #215 Joe Bacon 🌹

Wait till Super Tuesday when Bernie fizzles.

Bernie has a big lead in CA; I don’t think he is fizzling.

232
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:00:38pm

OK so who was disrupting?

233
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:01:01pm

re: #231 NO SMOCKING GUN!

Bernie has a big lead in CA; I don’t think he is fizzling.

I’m one vote for Warren in CA.

234
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:01:24pm

re: #232 Joe Bacon 🌹

OK so who was disrupting?

First guess is animal rights activists

235
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:01:24pm

re: #226 jaunte

I agree. They would all have to be on PBS, though, which I wouldn’t be against.

236
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:01:27pm

Bernie just own-goaled himself by noting the very reason his presidency would be a failure: Change doesn’t come from the top down.

237
b.d. (We're gonna win)  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:01:43pm

Glad I didn’t early vote yet here in Texas. Was leaning towards Warren but now will vote for her with enthusiasm.

238
goddamnedfrank  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:01:59pm

Apparently unclear on the concept of confidential

239
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:02:04pm

re: #213 NO SMOCKING GUN!

The polls right now say he will.

Let’s wait for actual votes instead of these mystical polls.

240
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:02:08pm

re: #224 Scottish Dragon

Huh?

As AOC put it—
Honestly, there should be themed debates. Doing so educates the public far more on issues & actually serves the purpose of distinguishing who knows what they’re talking about +who doesn’t.

Tonight just seemed very “gotcha” and snarky to me.

241
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:02:15pm

re: #232 Joe Bacon 🌹
.
The No Kids In Cages people from RAICES.

242
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:02:52pm

re: #238 goddamnedfrank

Apparently unclear on the concept of confidential

[Embedded content]

Rohrabacher has never been the sharpest knife in the drawer.

243
danarchy  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:03:02pm

So I wasn’t watching the debate at the beginning but when everyone started going on about Warren I tuned in to see what all the hubub was. Unless the second half was substantially different than the first half of the debate, I didn’t see it.

244
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:03:17pm

re: #240 BeachDem

As AOC put it—
Honestly, there should be themed debates. Doing so educates the public far more on issues & actually serves the purpose of distinguishing who knows what they’re talking about +who doesn’t.

Tonight just seemed very “gotcha” and snarky to me.

I wouldn’t be opposed to that, but trying to get the networks to not run a GOP rally at the same time would be tough.

245
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:03:32pm
246
Ace Rothstein  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:03:38pm

Must be a nice feeling to know you lit 500 million dollars on fire the last two months and you don’t even blink an eye.

247
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:03:45pm

Now comes the gasbags…

248
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:04:38pm
249
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:05:02pm

re: #245 jaunte

[Embedded content]

The corporate media got what they’ve been trying to provoke for months: A debate where the candidates spent more time fighting than they did answering the questions.

250
Weaselone  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:06:10pm

re: #245 jaunte

Warren brought up corruption in two of her answers.

251
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:06:21pm

re: #246 Ace Rothstein

Must be a nice feeling to know you lit 500 million dollars on fire the last two months and you don’t even blink an eye.

Can you imagine having so much that a half billion $ is pocket change?

252
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:06:37pm

re: #245 jaunte

253
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:07:12pm

re: #245 jaunte

Who is this Shaub douchebag? There is no such thing as process reform that can contain the crime/corruption instincts that Republicans all have. The only way to even begin to remove crime and corruption from government is to vote Republicans out of office always and everywhere, at every level of government.

254
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:07:23pm

re: #245 jaunte

[Embedded content]

25% of the debate is over and no questions about ethics reform, conflicts of interest or Justice Department independence. It’s almost as if we don’t have a corrupt demagogue leading a fascist movement in an assault on democracy. Did I accidentally change the channel to 2016?

This too—so much. I just didn’t think they asked any particularly important questions.

255
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:08:01pm

re: #253 EPR-radar

former Director of @OfficeGovEthics

256
retired cynic  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:08:30pm

re: #254 BeachDem

This too—so much. I just didn’t think they asked any particularly important questions.

I think the questions were asked with the end in view of triggering attacks between the candidates, rather than eliciting illuminating responses.

257
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:08:40pm

Why is Chuck Todd the Political Director of MSNBC?

258
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:09:11pm

re: #253 EPR-radar

Who is this Shaub douchebag? There is no such thing as process reform that can contain the crime/corruption instincts that Republicans all have. The only way to even begin to remove crime and corruption from government is to vote Republicans out of office always and everywhere, at every level of government.

former Director of @OfficeGovEthics. I think trump fired him.

259
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:09:44pm

re: #256 retired cynic

I think the questions were asked with the end in view of triggering attacks between the candidates, rather than eliciting illuminating responses.

Ayep. “[Insert Candidate Name] has said this about you/your ideas in the past days/weeks, take this opportunity to put a shiv between their ribs on live TV.”

260
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:10:02pm

re: #253 EPR-radar

Who is this Shaub douchebag? There is no such thing as process reform that can contain the crime/corruption instincts that Republicans all have. The only way to even begin to remove crime and corruption from government is to vote Republicans out of office always and everywhere, at every level of government.

Shaub was the director of the government ethics office until he quit when he realized Trump wasn’t going to listen anyway. This is his particular concern, and I agree that we need to make sure the guidelines are reinforced. But it will take retaking Congress to making it happen.

261
b.d. (We're gonna win)  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:11:19pm

re: #257 jaunte

Why is Chuck Todd the Political Director of MSNBC?

Because David Gregory had the job before him?

262
BeachDem  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:12:20pm

Was going to watch the recap but then Chris Matthews started yapping so, click.

263
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:12:55pm

re: #255 jaunte

former Director of @OfficeGovEthics

Ah. At least he’s apparently not a ratfucking both-siderist.

But there’s still an unreasonable level of optimism that lawless people like Republicans can be bound by process and legal reforms.

This was already apparent back in the W Bush era, with the “We act, you analyze, we act again while you’re still analyzing that first thing…” shit. Trump has turned that up to 11.

264
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:13:05pm

I think we would actually have to pass a constitutional amendment stating that the president and vice president are required to sell everything down to a single home, mutual funds, and cash in order to take the oath to prevent having what Trump has.

265
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:14:30pm

re: #264 Belafon

I think we would actually have to pass a constitutional amendment stating that the president and vice president are required to sell everything down to a single home, mutual funds, and cash in order to take the oath to prevent having what Trump has.

Even if this were done, so what? We have just had it proven in great detail that an unimpeachable US president is above all laws and customs.

266
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:14:47pm

re: #263 EPR-radar

I think Schaub, like many of us, is still feeling stunned at how much of our system was protected by norms, and vulnerable to a group of vandals that don’t give a shit.

267
secretslothbear  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:15:46pm

re: #207 NO SMOCKING GUN!

And that is what scares me; Sanders supporters thinking he has been cheated if he has the pluarlity but doesn’t win the nomination.

Sanders supporters will think he was cheated even if he doesn’t have a plurality.

268
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:16:28pm

It seems that the DK voters have chosen:

269
jaunte  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:16:50pm
270
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:16:54pm

re: #266 jaunte

I think Schaub, like many of us, is still feeling stunned at how much of our system was protected by norms, and vulnerable to a group of vandals that don’t give a shit.

Well, to be crude we can’t afford for any of the good guys to be in shock and dismay. Voting out Republicans always and everywhere at every opportunity is the only possible path to a solution, and the sooner every non-republican gets on board with this insanely simplistic-seeming approach to politics, the better.

271
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:18:18pm
272
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:18:42pm

re: #265 EPR-radar

Even if this were done, so what? We have just had it proven in great detail that an unimpeachable US president is above all laws and customs.

I agree that McConnell and the rest of the GOP’s attitude is contributing to Trump. All the amendment does is prevent the person from getting into office. And yes, verifying it would have to be part of the rule.

273
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:21:22pm

re: #271 Chrysicat

[Embedded content]

And thought that “Not everyone can be as perfect as you, Pete” was a great way to show maturity.

274
First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:21:33pm

You know who would be really, really good to hear from about the importance of the Culinary Union? Anthony Bourdain.

275
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:22:10pm

re: #264 Belafon

I think we would actually have to pass a constitutional amendment stating that the president and vice president are required to sell everything down to a single home, mutual funds, and cash in order to take the oath to prevent having what Trump has.

Maybe one or two single-family-at-the-largest homes in resort sites as well. As long as they’re not rented at anything above market value for the area and are only rented to people who either aren’t government employees or don’t know the First Family owns it.

That ski condo, or small ski home, would be nice to be able to return to at the end of the term, even if the Secret Service would never let them occupy it as president.

276
Chrysicat  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:22:42pm

Please, please, Mr. VP, drag Chuck Todd for not asking the quest—

YES!!!!

277
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:23:12pm

re: #272 Belafon

I agree that McConnell and the rest of the GOP’s attitude is contributing to Trump. All the amendment does is prevent the person from getting into office. And yes, verifying it would have to be part of the rule.

Ah. I misread your proposal. Since it would apply to a president-elect, there’s a possibility the prior administration would actually enforce it. But if it’s one GOP administration to the next, enforcement is entirely up to the outgoing president, unless we completely change the powers of the presidency (which might actually be what’s needed).

278
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:24:10pm

re: #275 Chrysicat

Maybe one or two single-family-at-the-largest homes in resort sites as well. As long as they’re not rented at anything above market value for the area and are only rented to people who either aren’t government employees or don’t know the First Family owns it.

That ski condo, or small ski home, would be nice to be able to return to at the end of the term, even if the Secret Service would never let them occupy it as president.

That’s cool. We just need to make the emoluments clause NOT conditional on Congressional support.

279
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:25:27pm

I know that my opinion might not carry much weight as a man, but it felt to me like Klobucher really wanted to spin that “Are you calling me stupid?” moment as an attack on her gender.

280
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:25:54pm

re: #278 Belafon

That’s cool. We just need to make the emoluments clause NOT conditional on Congressional support.

How that hell do we do that without completely rewriting the constitution?

281
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:26:23pm

re: #280 EPR-radar

How that hell do we do that without completely rewriting the constitution?

That’s why I said a constitutional amendment.

282
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:26:38pm

Biden kicked Brian Williams in the ass repeatedly about attacking Hunter.

283
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:28:54pm
284
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:31:51pm

I will have to congratulate Sanders on making this statement:

SEN. SANDERS: It is my policy and i’m very proud of that policy. what we need to do to deal with this grotesque level of income and wealth inequality, to make sure those people who are working, do you know why, Mr. Bloomberg? It wasn’t you who made all that money—maybe your workers played some role in that as well.

dailykos.com

285
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:32:04pm

re: #281 Belafon

That’s why I said a constitutional amendment.

The emoluments clause is already in the constitution. So what exactly would a super-emoluments clause look like? Would it set up a special emoluments police that is supreme on this one issue and is accountable to neither Congress nor the President?

That’s about the only way to take its enforcement out of the hands of Congress and the President, but it’s fairly clear this wouldn’t help.

It is magical thinking to believe that new laws or constitutional amendments are some kind of fix for Trump and the Republicans. The only fix is to vote them out of office, especially since that may eventually not be possible if there is too much fucking around by non-Republicans.

286
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:32:56pm

This is why I love Maxine!

287
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:32:59pm

re: #282 Joe Bacon 🌹

Biden kicked Brian Williams in the ass repeatedly about attacking Hunter.

That was one of the better moments for Joe tonight, when he began to show some righteous anger for the way that he and his family have been treated. Too bad it was as part of a defensive response to a comment from Warren, who then proceeded to lay him out for how chummy he was with Mitch McConnell back in the day.

288
sagehen  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:33:42pm

re: #258 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

former Director of @OfficeGovEthics. I think trump fired him.

Nah. They ignored every single time he told them “no you can’t do that,” “stop, please, that’s against the rules”, “there’s a reason for these policies y’know, it’s important”…. They refused to do anything he said, so he quit so he’d be able to speak publicly.

289
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:35:56pm

re: #285 EPR-radar

The emoluments clause is already in the constitution. So what exactly would a super-emoluments clause look like? Would it set up a special emoluments police that is supreme on this one issue and is accountable to neither Congress nor the President?

That’s about the only way to take its enforcement out of the hands of Congress and the President, but it’s fairly clear this wouldn’t help.

It is magical thinking to believe that new laws or constitutional amendments are some kind of fix for Trump and the Republicans. The only fix is to vote them out of office, especially since that may eventually not be possible if there is too much fucking around by non-Republicans.

Yes, and only white landowning men can vote, blacks were slaves, and Senators cannot be directly elected.

I know that we have to vote them out of office. It’s all I preach. But when they are out, we are going to try to put some things in place to reduce the chance of someone like Trump, or, more importantly, someone like Trump using government resources for personal gain.

290
sagehen  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:37:18pm

re: #275 Chrysicat

Maybe one or two single-family-at-the-largest homes in resort sites as well. As long as they’re not rented at anything above market value for the area and are only rented to people who either aren’t government employees or don’t know the First Family owns it.

That ski condo, or small ski home, would be nice to be able to return to at the end of the term, even if the Secret Service would never let them occupy it as president.

Which wouldn’t have been any kind of problem for John Kerry or John McCain, because their pre-nups said all the money and property belonged to their wives.

291
Interesting Times  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:38:27pm
292
danarchy  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:39:25pm

re: #278 Belafon

That’s cool. We just need to make the emoluments clause NOT conditional on Congressional support.

The Emoluments clause has been looked at with a wink and a nod since the very beginning. Washington was one of the biggest landholders in the country and passed laws and pushed infrastructure bills that vastly increased the value of his western holdings. He remained involved in the day to day running of his estates and there are even documents in the archives where he directly solicits business aid from English officials.

It feels like unless a Saudi Prince hands the president a briefcase full of cash the whole emoluments thing isn’t going to get enough people worked up to make a difference.

293
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:39:50pm

re: #290 sagehen

Which wouldn’t have been any kind of problem for John Kerry or John McCain, because their pre-nups said all the money and property belonged to their wives.

Well, if my rule were in place, they probably wouldn’t have run for office. And they wouldn’t be able to sell it to immediate family.

Oh, and another amendment idea I have is that a president can’t pardon family, friends, business associates, and anyone that was appointed by the president.

294
Targetpractice  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:40:13pm

Of all the bad takes prior to the debate, the ones that said Bloomberg could only benefit from being onstage tonight and the DNC were getting him on the stage to go after Bernie rank towards the top.

295
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:40:42pm

re: #292 danarchy

Yep. As I said, it shouldn’t be conditional on Congressional support.

296
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:41:20pm

re: #269 jaunte

My continuing objection to the annual wealth tax is its enforceability. We cannot even get the IRS to investigate income taxes of the wealthy on a thorough basis— if they did their job, Trump would probably have been in prison 30 years ago.

For a wealth tax, it’s not as though you can just look at the balance of a stock portfolio at the end of the year. You have to evaluate other assets: artwork? collectibles? real estate? privately held companies? cars? boats? planes? etc.

Far more practical:
1. Repeal the 2017 tax law in its entirety
2. Increase estate taxes by adding additional brackets
3. Eliminate the carried interest loophole
4. Add brackets to income taxes.

297
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:43:07pm

re: #293 Belafon

Well, if my rule were in place, they probably wouldn’t have run for office. And they wouldn’t be able to sell it to immediate family.

Oh, and another amendment idea I have is that a president can’t pardon family, friends, business associates, and anyone that was appointed by the president.

Curbing the pardoning power is a solid idea. I’d extend it to include anyone who ever contributed more than $500 to the president’s political party or to any candidate or PAC affiliated with the president’s party.

298
EPR-radar  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:44:06pm

re: #296 Hecuba’s daughter

Tax capital gains as ordinary income.

299
Belafon  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:46:29pm

re: #296 Hecuba’s daughter

My continuing objection to the annual wealth tax is its enforceability. We cannot even get the IRS to investigate income taxes of the wealthy on a thorough basis— if they did their job, Trump would probably have been in prison 30 years ago.

For a wealth tax, it’s not as though you can just look at the balance of a stock portfolio at the end of the year. You have to evaluate other assets: artwork? collectibles? real estate? privately held companies? cars? boats? planes? etc.

Far more practical:
1. Repeal the 2017 tax law in its entirety
2. Increase estate taxes by adding additional brackets
3. Eliminate the carried interest loophole
4. Add brackets to income taxes.

All the IRS to keep part of the proceeds on any penalty collection over, say, $5M.

300
danarchy  Feb 19, 2020 • 8:56:17pm

re: #295 Belafon

Yep. As I said, it shouldn’t be conditional on Congressional support.

Any condition would have to be enforced by someone. If not congress, then who? The DOJ…Ha! Some “independent” body appointed by (congress, the courts, the previous president, directly elected). What enforcement authority does this body have and who is it backed by. At the end of the day it is going to be congress and the courts.

301
Ace Rothstein  Feb 19, 2020 • 9:19:41pm

re: #298 EPR-radar

Tax capital gains as ordinary income.

THIS.

302
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Feb 20, 2020 • 3:46:46am

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303
John Hughes  Feb 20, 2020 • 7:31:38am

re: #296 Hecuba’s daughter

My continuing objection to the annual wealth tax is its enforceability. We cannot even get the IRS to investigate income taxes of the wealthy on a thorough basis— if they did their job, Trump would probably have been in prison 30 years ago.

For a wealth tax, it’s not as though you can just look at the balance of a stock portfolio at the end of the year. You have to evaluate other assets: artwork? collectibles? real estate? privately held companies? cars? boats? planes? etc.

In my experience of an actually existing wealth tax the IRS (or Direction générale des Finances publiques in my case) don’t actually have to do much work. They just tell you what you have to declare and you do all the work. They randomly pull a few cases out and check ‘em every year, coming down on anyone who cheated like a tonne of briques.

(I had no problem with paying it, as I was only slightly over the threshold, but it was a total pain in the arse calculating how much I was “worth”, to avoid problems I was almost always forced to overestimate it).

304
John Hughes  Feb 20, 2020 • 7:34:49am

re: #299 Belafon

All the IRS to keep part of the proceeds on any penalty collection over, say, $5M.

Ugh. Introduce another source of corruption to the existing civil forfeiture shit.


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