High Energy Snarky Puppy: “What About Me?” [VIDEO]

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Snarky Puppy - What About Me
From the live DVD “We Like It Here”

Streaming: radi.al
Digital/Physical: store.groundupmusic.net

Recorded and filmed live (free of overdubs) from October 7-10 at Kytopia Studios in Utrecht, the Netherlands, for GroundUP Music. For more information and upcoming tour dates, please visit groundup.ropeadope.com or snarkypuppy.com.

Written, arranged, and produced by Michael League.

Personnel:
Michael League - bass
Shaun Martin - keyboards
Bill Laurance - Fender Rhodes
Cory Henry - keyboards
Justin Stanton - trumpet
Mark Lettieri - guitar
Bob Lanzetti - guitar (solo)
Chris McQueen - guitar
Nate Werth - percussion
Larnell Lewis - drums (solo)
Mike Maher - trumpet
Chris Bullock - sax
Bob Reynolds - sax
Jay Jennings - trumpet

Engineered by Eric Hartman, Roy Van Rosendaal, Mike Harrison, & Colin Benders.
Filmed by Andy LaViolette, Brad Holt, Emily Schwarting, Joseph Lafond, and Christi LaViolette.
Mixed by Eric Hartman in Dallas, Texas.
Mastered by Scott Hull at Masterdisk New York, NY.

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313 comments

1
VegasGolfer  Feb 22, 2020 • 5:54:03pm

Clint (aka old man yelling at clouds)and the empty chair had a heart to heart and Clint becomes a never trumper.

2
Belafon  Feb 22, 2020 • 6:05:33pm

re: #1 VegasGolfer

[Embedded content]

Clint (aka old man yelling at clouds)and the empty chair had a heart to heart and Clint becomes a never trumper.

Maybe he watched his own movies.

3
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 22, 2020 • 6:07:25pm
4
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 22, 2020 • 6:07:37pm
5
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 22, 2020 • 6:10:32pm

moron

6
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 22, 2020 • 6:18:58pm

re: #5 Backwoods_Sleuth

moron

[Embedded content]

“Isn’t there a law about this stuff?”

Yes there is, and he knows he’s breaking it and he’s getting away with it.

7
jaunte  Feb 22, 2020 • 6:26:55pm

“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.”

8
Chrysicat  Feb 22, 2020 • 6:27:46pm

Not going to say that MAGAts are any better than Bern It Down, though…

9
retired cynic  Feb 22, 2020 • 6:36:11pm
10
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 22, 2020 • 6:48:03pm

Is it beginning to look like the cogs of the NV Democratic caucus are as screwed up as the Iowans?

It’s a foolish thing, that the DNC listened to the Sanders campaign last time and tried to make these things more transparent. Just another way that Bernie is subversive to a winning campaign.

11
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 22, 2020 • 6:49:11pm
12
retired cynic  Feb 22, 2020 • 6:49:34pm

re: #11 Eclectic Cyborg

Of course!

13
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 22, 2020 • 6:50:55pm

I see the NYT bloggers are all in with pushing Bernie as the inevitable candidate.

14
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 22, 2020 • 6:52:52pm

re: #13 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

I see the NYT bloggers are all in with pushing Bernie as the inevitable candidate.

As I posted in the previous queue the CCCP wants 4 more years of Trump and that’s why they are all pushing Bernie!

15
Belafon  Feb 22, 2020 • 6:57:32pm

re: #10 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Is it beginning to look like the cogs of the NV Democratic caucus are as screwed up as the Iowans?

It’s a foolish thing, that the DNC listened to the Sanders campaign last time and tried to make these things more transparent. Just another way that Bernie is subversive to a winning campaign.

It doesn’t seem to be looking like it’s all that messed up. I’m not seeing the complaints like Iowa generated.

16
PhillyPretzel  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:01:51pm

Thanks for the birthday updings and have a good evening. :)

17
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:02:08pm

re: #16 PhillyPretzel

Thanks for the birthday updings and have a good evening. :)

Many happy returns.

18
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:03:40pm

re: #16 PhillyPretzel

Thanks for the birthday updings and have a good evening. :)

Happy Birthday!!!!!

19
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:11:15pm

re: #11 Eclectic Cyborg

[Embedded content]

That was the lamest choreography I ever saw.

20
retired cynic  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:17:24pm

Macquarie Island
The only place where Earth’s mantle lies above water.

Neat photos! Atlas Obscura

21
Charles Johnson  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:17:28pm
22
retired cynic  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:18:06pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

Or complicit.

23
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:19:02pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

Or they are crippled by said con man.

24
William Lewis  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:20:13pm

re: #16 PhillyPretzel

Thanks for the birthday updings and have a good evening. :)

Hippo birdie and two ewes

25
retired cynic  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:23:18pm

The Nevada Debate Was Entertaining and Revealing
When the candidates let their emotions rule them, they gave us a better picture of what drives them. by Martin Longman, Washington Monthly

John Podhoretz of the New York Post thought Wednesday’s Democratic caucus debate in Nevada was the best debate in human history. It’s a sign of something that I’m inclined to agree with him, even if it’s probably for different reasons.

I think Podhoretz just enjoyed watching the Democrats fight, especially because they were landing haymakers against each other. For him, it’s the guilty pleasure of an anti-Trump conservative. I agree that the entertainment value was sky high, but the worth I got out of it was more cathartic.

26
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:26:36pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

The Republicans failed to overthrow FDR with Smedley Butler. Ever since they planned to overthrow the government and institute a dictatorship. If they are not stopped now they will succeed.

27
Interesting Times  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:33:36pm

re: #25 retired cynic

The Nevada Debate Was Entertaining and Revealing
When the candidates let their emotions rule them, they gave us a better picture of what drives them. by Martin Longman, Washington Monthly

Speaking of which, here’s an interesting thread from a Warren spokesman:

As for the typical pundit prognostications…

28
Patricia Kayden  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:35:49pm
29
Mattand  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:47:09pm

re: #26 Joe Bacon 🌹

The Republicans failed to overthrow FDR with Smedley Butler. Ever since they planned to overthrow the government and institute a dictatorship. If they are not stopped now they will succeed.

I think what’s so fucking frustrating about the current situation is that by any normal voting metric, more Americans wanted a Democrat in the White House.

Even with all the Russian interference; all the fucking idiot independents and Bernie Bros throwing fits and going suicide bomber; the entire right wing media spreading every piece of propaganda; people did not want the Republicans in the White House.

It still upsets me that there are people out there (mostly white) who can’t see how fucking messed up dire this situation is, and will do absolutely nothing to correct it.

30
SteelPH  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:52:55pm

re: #29 Mattand

And said people, at best, either write it off as business as usual, or at worst, consider it necessary collateral damage on the inevitable path to REVOLUTION.

31
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:56:46pm

re: #29 Mattand

I think what’s so fucking frustrating about the current situation is that by any normal voting metric, more Americans wanted a Democrat in the White House.

Even with all the Russian interference; all the fucking idiot independents and Bernie Bros throwing fits and going suicide bomber; the entire right wing media spreading every piece of propaganda; people did not want the Republicans in the White House.

It still upsets me that there are people out there (mostly white) who can’t see how fucking messed up dire this situation is, and will do absolutely nothing to correct it.

Racism TRUMPS everything else when it comes to the bigoted base of the Republican Party.

32
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:58:23pm
33
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:59:00pm

re: #32 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

Oh, so he finally did kill himself launching his Flat Earth rocket? It’s sad to see someone die, but honestly, we all saw it coming.

34
SteelPH  Feb 22, 2020 • 7:59:37pm

re: #33 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Oh, so he finally did kill himself launching his Flat Earth rocket? It’s sad to see someone die, but honestly, we all saw it coming.

Does this qualify as a Darwin Award?

35
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:00:37pm

re: #34 SteelPH

Does this qualify as a Darwin Award?

I would definitely say so.

36
plansbandc  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:04:54pm
37
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:05:35pm

It’s looking like Mayor Pete may fall short of the 15% threshold, leaving only Sanders and Biden winning delegates in Nv. Mayor Pete still not connecting with minorities.

38
CarolJ  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:05:44pm

Bits and pieces…..No matter what happens this year, I think this is the last time we will see state-wide caucuses for Presidential Primaries. Too hard and too inconvenient for too many people-only 4% of the voting public attended this one because they would have to stand around and declare publicly their vote in front of their neighbors-and it wasn’t just a minute or 5 like it would be with ballots, and they would have to figure out things like viability and such.

Anyone have a bit of nostalgia for the old smokefilled room? Before primaries were common, states just had conventions for delegates. A lot shorter election season that way at least, and a lot less liable to ratfucking as only party members would be voting on delegates. Candidates could just go around and do a lot of rallies and meetings with interest groups.

Then the Convention would have a little more drama as well. There was uncertainty as to who the winner was, or at least whether or not the Presidential incumbent would receive unanimous support. Not to mention the horsetrading for stuff on the party platform.

I know why the old system was ended. Southern delegates in the Democratic Party tried to keep out black Democrats. Hubert Humphrey ran without an electoral test and a need to even speak to a lot of the anti-war sentiment. At least the system of primaries lets the Democratic electorate have some say and some transparency in that say.

39
CarolJ  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:07:02pm

re: #34 SteelPH

Did he reproduce? Either biologically or with some sort of Flat Earth institute?

40
plansbandc  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:07:34pm

The Miracle on Ice guys wearing MAGA hats just broke my fucking heart.

41
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:08:13pm

re: #33 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Oh, so he finally did kill himself launching his Flat Earth rocket? It’s sad to see someone die, but honestly, we all saw it coming.

42
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:08:29pm

re: #40 plansbandc

The Miracle on Ice guys wearing MAGA hats just broke my fucking heart.

And I’m watching the movie now and that just wrecked me.

43
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:09:29pm

re: #32 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

[Embedded content]

Science Channel is grossly irresponsible encouraging amateurs to kill themselves with this “homemade astronauts” series.

44
plansbandc  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:09:55pm

re: #16 PhillyPretzel

Happy B’day!!

45
Interesting Times  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:11:41pm

re: #40 plansbandc

The Miracle on Ice guys wearing MAGA hats just broke my fucking heart.

Oh. Then I guess they’re okay with Russia winning now. 🙄

46
plansbandc  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:13:00pm

re: #45 Interesting Times

It’s absolutely vile. Perfectly illustrates the fall of our country.

47
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:13:07pm

re: #33 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Oh, so he finally did kill himself launching his Flat Earth rocket? It’s sad to see someone die, but honestly, we all saw it coming.

His death will be mourned around the world.

Oh, wait…

48
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:14:33pm

re: #47 Eclectic Cyborg

His death will be mourned around the world.

Oh, wait…

49
plansbandc  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:14:47pm

That bus driver is a true patriot.

50
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:15:51pm

re: #49 plansbandc

That bus driver is a true patriot.

I’m giggling at the mental imagery of a surly 50ish-year-old man, behind the wheel of a Greyhound bus, staring out the door and telling a young tough guy with a gun, “Why don’t you just gargle my balls, you fascist asshole.”

51
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:18:10pm

re: #43 NO SMOCKING GUN!

Science Channel is grossly irresponsible encouraging amateurs to kill themselves with this “homemade astronauts” series.

And, as you post that, I’ve got the Weather Channel on, and they’re running old episodes of some tornado chaser series.

52
CarolJ  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:18:43pm

You saw it coming with this guy. The math needed to get his rocket up is the same stuff that takes into account the curvature of the earth and the horizon. And even then he lacked just about everything needed for a safe landing.

I can’t blame anyone for blaming the Science Channel for encouraging this. Without the attention, he wouldn’t have raised the money to make it possible in enough time to make it possible. It might have taken him a lot more time if he had had to just pass the hat,and maybe enough time for him to give up or lose interest.

53
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:19:34pm

re: #52 CarolJ

You saw it coming with this guy. The math needed to get his rocket up is the same stuff that takes into account the curvature of the earth and the horizon. And even then he lacked just about everything needed for a safe landing.

I can’t blame anyone for blaming the Science Channel for encouraging this. Without the attention, he wouldn’t have raised the money to make it possible in enough time to make it possible. It might have taken him a lot more time if he had had to just pass the hat,and maybe enough time for him to give up or lose interest.

There really are enough idiots who would crowdfund a GoFundMe for such an asinine stunt!

54
sagehen  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:21:49pm

re: #34 SteelPH

Does this qualify as a Darwin Award?

nah… Darwin Awards are only for people young enough to have not yet reproduced.

55
CarolJ  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:22:11pm

re: #53 Joe Bacon 🌹

Sure, but without tv exposure it would have taken a little longer, been a little harder.

56
sagehen  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:23:46pm

re: #40 plansbandc

The Miracle on Ice guys wearing MAGA hats just broke my fucking heart.

They’re all in their 60’s and 70’s, right?

57
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:24:18pm

re: #56 sagehen

They’re all in their 60’s and 70’s, right?

They were in their 20’s at the time of the game, so 60’s would be correct.

58
CarolJ  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:24:59pm

re: #51 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

At least storm chasers will pull over if it’s bad enough, and will pay attention to Weather Science.

59
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:26:26pm

re: #40 plansbandc

The Miracle on Ice guys wearing MAGA hats just broke my fucking heart.

To be fair they are group of white men now in their early to mid 60s. That’s a prime demographic for Trump.

60
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:27:12pm

A convicted murderer serving a life sentence recently confessed in a letter to killing two child molesters who were in prison with him. Jonathan Watson, who was convicted of murder in 2009, sent his confession to the Bay Area News Group.

In his letter, Watson said he beat the convicted child molesters with a cane in January. He claimed that he warned prison officials before the attack.

61
plansbandc  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:28:59pm

re: #59 Eclectic Cyborg

Not the point. What they stood for, what they symbolized to the fans… They’ve shit all over their legacy.

62
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:32:11pm

re: #61 plansbandc

Not the point. What they stood for, what they symbolized to the fans.. They’ve shit all over their legacy.

Agreed, but it’s their choice to do that if they want.

63
plansbandc  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:33:04pm

re: #62 Eclectic Cyborg

And mine to be upset about it. Thanks for negating my feelings, asshole.

64
DodgerFan1988  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:34:09pm

re: #45 Interesting Times

Oh. Then I guess they’re okay with Russia winning now. 🙄

The new “enemy” has always been Mexico to these guys.

65
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:36:17pm

re: #64 DodgerFan1988

The new “enemy” has always been Mexico to these guys.

Oh I thought the new “enemy” was them there gawdless liberals!

66
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 22, 2020 • 8:48:47pm

re: #63 plansbandc

And mine to be upset about it. Thanks for negating my feelings, asshole.

I wasn’t trying to negate your feelings, I was merely stating it should not come as a huge surprise that most of these guys are MAGAts now. I’m right there with you, I think it sucks too.

67
Citizen K  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:00:55pm

Well then. Basically all the circles I run in outside of this are basically just burying and mocking Warren, celebrating her “failure” in the face of god-king Bernard and shit. The way they tell it she’s basically the reincarnation of The Great Satan Hillary. If it was just Twitter, I could just write it off as being just Twitter, but…

Fucking hell. This shit just pisses me off so much.

68
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:06:03pm

re: #33 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Oh, so he finally did kill himself launching his Flat Earth rocket? It’s sad to see someone die, but honestly, we all saw it coming.

He proved that the Earth is…….hard.

69
CarolJ  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:06:26pm

On the last thread, I was talking about how the NRA basically gave itself over to the Russian oligarchs as a money laundering channel, the amount that was so much the organization decided to feather its own nest as well. Fat, lazy was easy. No need to court fickle members for well, anything. Just keep up the automatic withdrawals for membership.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the same thing happened with those “megachurch” folks. Church donations are as transparent as mud, and with far less accountability. All they would have to do is keep the flock on Trump’s side through ever increasing nutty devotion. A megachurch pastor would no longer have to even really pretend they care about the poorer members of the flock. Just live large on the oligarch money. It explains the ever-increasing nuttiness (donating electric bill money, calling Trump their “King Cyrus”, and so forth). As long as they keep up the membership loyal to Trump.

At this point, some will bring up Reagan. Will Reagan appreciated the help, he would have laughed at this stuff-at least privately. He knew he had a somewhat shady past in Hollywood and at least was somewhat grounded in the reality he was just another human, just another President.

70
Dread Pirate  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:08:00pm
71
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:13:09pm
72
KingKenrod  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:19:27pm

re: #71 Eclectic Cyborg

[Embedded content]

Looks like the parachute deployed on lift off.

73
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:25:03pm

re: #71 Eclectic Cyborg

re: #72 KingKenrod

Looks like the parachute deployed on lift off.

That’s some Wile E Coyote shit right there

74
BeachDem  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:28:41pm

So, let’s consider Bernie getting the nomination (shudder). Does Bernie have to earn our votes, or did that rule only apply to Hillary with the Berner brats?

And what do we do if he chooses a totally inappropriate vice president, such as Tulsi Gabbard, or worse, as some of the Berners at Kos are dreaming, Nina Fucking Turner? Do we just smile and say, “Oh well.”

I really don’t want to be negative, but I’m having a hard time. I joke that I’m old and I don’t have kids so this crap won’t affect me for long, but I care about other people’s children and things are not looking great to me right now, whatever happens.

75
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:29:31pm

re: #71 Eclectic Cyborg

[Embedded content]

Well,. the Earth is still round but it appears that Mike is very, very flat.
I’m having a seriously hard time summoning up any sympathy at all for this charlatan. His demise is gruesome enough that it might be a wake up call for at least some of the ethically-challenged fans of conspiracy culture (of which Flat Earthers are a sub-division). Hey, assholes, this shit is real, all the contrarian lying and carnival barker salesmanship on the planet did not save Mike from his own stupidity.

76
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:31:24pm

re: #72 KingKenrod

Looks like the parachute deployed on lift off.

Pretty sure he had a ‘chute deployment on launch in his last flight also. I believe he broke his back on that one

77
Amory Blaine  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:32:30pm

re: #75 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

His flight was sabotaged by Big Globe ® .

78
Citizen K  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:34:16pm

re: #74 BeachDem

So, let’s consider Bernie getting the nomination (shudder). Does Bernie have to earn our votes, or did that rule only apply to Hillary with the Berner brats?

And what do we do if he chooses a totally inappropriate vice president, such as Tulsi Gabbard, or worse, as some of the Berners at Kos are dreaming, Nina Fucking Turner? Do we just smile and say, “Oh well.”

I really don’t want to be negative, but I’m having a hard time. I joke that I’m old and I don’t have kids so this crap won’t affect me for long, but I care about other people’s children and things are not looking great to me right now, whatever happens.

The whole thing has basically become a toxic triumphalism where they want to simultaneously purge other supporters (especially Warren supporters it seems like) and act like they’re entitled to the support. They seem like they’re almost weaponizing the ‘vote blue no matter who’ sentiment while using it as a shortlist for who gets the knives next.

I basically just shut up about politics at this point because if I said I was a Warren supporter, I’d basically just get basically shouted down and ostracized, and no one would have my back. Everyone’s on the Bernie or Bust train at this point and I feel fucking alone.

79
Dread Pirate  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:43:10pm
80
BeachDem  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:43:27pm

And here it is already—

As Bernie Sanders’s momentum builds, down-ballot Democrats move to distance themselves

As Sanders builds what could eventually be an insurmountable delegate lead, many Democratic House and Senate candidates are approaching a dramatic shift in their campaigns, as they recalibrate to include praise of capitalism and distance themselves from the national party. Top campaign strategists from both parties view Sanders’s success as a potentially tectonic event, which could narrow the party’s already slim hopes of retaking the Senate majority and fuel GOP dreams of reclaiming the House, which it lost amid a Democratic romp in 2018.

The leading Democratic candidates running for the four most vulnerable Republican Senate seats — in Arizona, North Carolina, Maine and Colorado — have all come out against Sanders’s signature health care plan, as have many House candidates.

washingtonpost.com

81
mmmirele  Feb 22, 2020 • 9:58:09pm

My brother flatly told me that if it came down to between Bernie Sanders and Trump, he’ll vote for Trump. Bernie is just toxic.

82
uriel  Feb 22, 2020 • 10:07:19pm

Ok- Not to just drop a random tweet off apropos of nothing, but I really think this might be my finest work. While it was, in context, very cutting- once removed from the confines of linear plot and viewed more as a sort of stream-of-consciousness memoir of an unreliable narrator, it’s just… *chefs kiss.*

83
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 22, 2020 • 10:07:36pm

If Bernie does get in with a Republican Congress he won’t get anything done. Republicans will instead endlessly investigate Jane’s shenanigans as well as the rest of Bernie’s family.

End Result—Bernie will wind up the same way as Culbert Olson the Democratic Socialist governor of California from 1938-42. The left will turn on Bernie the same way Sinclair’s EPIC organization turned on Olson initiating three recall drives against him.

Olson was also an atheist which brought down the wrath of the Pulpit Pimp Queen Aimee Semple McPherson…Oh and he also earned the wrath of the Catholic Church…

en.wikipedia.org

84
BeachDem  Feb 22, 2020 • 10:13:14pm

Sam Seder’s tweet, followed by some Berner replies

They really are “my way or the highway” peeps.

Dem establishment at pod save America is freaking out…It’s so sad they’re not going to get an Obama approved centrist corporate friendly oligarch loving status quo keeping candidate. Sniff sniff

Sanders will win the general so tell them to get on board with his policies and his voters will carry them over the line

if the concern were really down ballot, which it’s now, the answer would be simple: run better (read: progressive) candidates

Bernie can start to clean up some of these awful conservative democrats and give us something to fight for on a local level

85
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 22, 2020 • 10:17:15pm

See that, Raw Story ain’t about to give the damn fool any cover

86
A Three Hour Tour  Feb 22, 2020 • 10:38:41pm

re: #81 mmmirele

My brother flatly told me that if it came down to between Bernie Sanders and Trump, he’ll vote for Trump. Bernie is just toxic.

Bernie and the Bros are toxic. Trump and the Republicans are fucking fascists. Given the unpalatable choice between the two, I’m holding my nose and voting for Toxic. Anything else is collaboration with fascists.

The Enemy is Trump. Trump! TRUMP!!!
Never forget that.

Now, if Bernie’s the nominee and he loses in November, I’m gonna stick the metaphorical shiv in as many Berners with their four years long “Bernie woulda won” whine as I can before being shipped off to Steven Miller’s camps.

87
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 22, 2020 • 10:50:07pm
88
Dr Lizardo  Feb 22, 2020 • 10:51:38pm

re: #72 KingKenrod

Looks like the parachute deployed on lift off.

Yep, looks like that’s exactly what happened.

89
Dread Pirate  Feb 22, 2020 • 10:56:11pm
90
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 22, 2020 • 11:35:51pm

re: #19 The Pie Overlord!

That was the lamest choreography I ever saw.

back then, all that mattered was how short the skirts were…

91
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 22, 2020 • 11:37:17pm

re: #32 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

You forgot to mention that he was a “Flat Earther”
And, that there have been numerous radio towers, within a few miles of his launch site, that reach further into the sky than he has managed to fly.

At least he died for a good cause: advancing science.

92
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 22, 2020 • 11:40:23pm

re: #38 CarolJ

Anyone have a bit of nostalgia for the old smokefilled room? Before primaries were common, states just had conventions for delegates. A lot shorter election season that way at least, and a lot less liable to ratfucking as only party members would be voting on delegates. Candidates could just go around and do a lot of rallies and meetings with interest groups.

Then the Convention would have a little more drama as well. There was uncertainty as to who the winner was, or at least whether or not the Presidential incumbent would receive unanimous support. Not to mention the horsetrading for stuff on the party platform.

I am old enough to recall those days and then in the late 60’s and early 70’s the push for more transparency and voter participation.

But remember, the political parties are private organizations and they are free to make their own rules on how they come to nominate their candidates.

The GOP are not distracted by their own Clown Show, so they are free to interfere massively and create a clusterf*ck at the DNC so they can point fingers and declare “The Democrat Party is not democratic!”

93
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 22, 2020 • 11:42:36pm

re: #54 sagehen

nah… Darwin Awards are only for people young enough to have not yet reproduced.

I thought it was for anyone who, voluntarily and through their own stupidity, removed themselves from the reproductive cycle by self-induced death or disfigurement.

94
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 22, 2020 • 11:44:14pm

re: #60 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

In his letter, Watson said he beat the convicted child molesters with a cane in January. He claimed that he warned prison officials before the attack.

Justice systems cost money. All we pay for, and all we get is a system of revenge.

95
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 22, 2020 • 11:48:00pm

re: #83 Joe Bacon 🌹

If Bernie does get in with a Republican Congress he won’t get anything done. Republicans will instead endlessly investigate Jane’s shenanigans as well as the rest of Bernie’s family.

Bernie will never get in. As soon as the nomination is announced, the GOP will start painting him as a frail, atheistic Jewish socialist America-hater.

And our media will simply and wimpily report everything they say without comment.

96
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 22, 2020 • 11:49:39pm

This has been your Wendell Wave. I have now reached the end of the thread. You may return to commenting.

97
ericblair  Feb 23, 2020 • 12:02:49am

From this data, it seems that the assumed frontrunner is getting 25% of the late-breaking votes. There’s no coalescing around the frontrunner, yet, and my guess is that Bernie has a hard ceiling of maybe 30% of the primary vote.

That doesn’t correlate directly to delegate votes, but the Dems have a proportional delegate allocation system that is completely different from the Republicans in 2016. You won’t get a majority of the delegates running a relatively small plurality of the votes.

Bernieworld seems to think this too, and this is why the talk about “Bernie is being robbed if he comes into the convention with a plurality and doesn’t get nominated” is dangerous. The rules are that the winner has to accumulate a majority, and if Bernieworld alienates the delegates of dropout candidates he’s going to have a hard time doing that. Bernie had input to these rules, and agreed to them. Most people aren’t going to know how this works, and a candidate intentionally creating conspiracies is poison.

98
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 12:07:35am

re: #97 ericblair

Bernieworld seems to think this too, and this is why the talk about “Bernie is being robbed if he comes into the convention with a plurality and doesn’t get nominated” is dangerous.

The idea is so that opponents can insist that the Democrats are undemocratic and to dampen the enthusiasm of potential Democratic voters.

The GOP knows that they have to suppress voter turnout by all means available, and apathy and indifference are highly efficient.

But they also know that having Bernie Sanders campaigning against Trump will bring their own people out in droves to defend America against Jewish atheist socialism.

99
Dave In Austin  Feb 23, 2020 • 1:00:42am
100
sagehen  Feb 23, 2020 • 1:23:11am

Is Susan Sarandon deliberately, consciously trying to ratfuck this election? Or is she the stupidest bitch who ever lived?

I’m not sure which is worse.

My criteria for picking a candidate (in order):

1. If nominated, would this candidate carry swing states?
2. Would this this candidate have coattails to carry close Senate races and/or purple district House seats?
3. Is this candidate a functional adult with a proven track record of hiring capable staff?
4. Does this candidate reflect my policy preferences?

I’m so sad it’s come to this. For most of my voting life, #4 was the only part of this list I had to give any thought to.

101
Dread Pirate  Feb 23, 2020 • 1:24:21am

Belzébuth, le chatte.

YouTube

102
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 1:33:56am

re: #99 Dave In Austin

[Embedded content]

If Susan wishes to burn her money on a candidate that’s going nowhere, then more power to her.

103
Dread Pirate  Feb 23, 2020 • 1:40:46am

Corona virus update. Critical/mild is hovering at 22%, recovered/dead is hovering at 10%. Virus is surging in Italy, Iran and Korea.

104
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 1:49:04am

re: #103 Dread Pirate

Corona virus update. Critical/mild is hovering at 22%, recovered/dead is hovering at 10%. Virus is surging in Italy, Iran and Korea.

[Embedded content]

So, when do we build the escape ships and evacuate to Mars?

//

105
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 2:03:07am

re: #104 Targetpractice

So, when do we build the escape ships and evacuate to Mars?

//

Italy means it is just south of the Alps from where I live and on its way…

106
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 2:06:57am

re: #87 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

[Embedded content]

107
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 2:17:51am

Today our village of 700 souls is going to go bat-shit crazy over Karneval. Thousands of people from all over will descend upon it for an afternoon parade and party blow-out into the evening.

We are located up a side valley, a dead-end basically, so they can close off the main road here without massively disrupting traffic and causing major detours, which is pretty much the case anywhere else in an around the Rhine valley.

For that, it is looking to be rainy and windy (at least mild, temps near 50°F) all afternoon, but I am not likely to venture outside today.

108
Dr Lizardo  Feb 23, 2020 • 2:50:39am

re: #103 Dread Pirate

Also:

Slovak Prime Minister Peter Pellegrini canceled his agenda because of sudden illness, his office said on Sunday, just one week ahead of a parliamentary election in which his party might lose power.

Pellegrini was due to appear in a televised debate later on Sunday with leaders of all other parties taking part in the European Union member country’s Feb. 29 vote.

“Prime Minister Peter Pellegrini was hospitalized yesterday night due to acute upper respiratory tract infection accompanied with high temperature. Due to his condition, he is cancelling his entire schedule temporarily,” Pellegrini’s office said in a statement.

reuters.com

Let’s just hope that it’s nothing more than an “acute upper respiratory tract infection”.

109
Dr Lizardo  Feb 23, 2020 • 2:52:11am

re: #107 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Today our village of 700 souls is going to go bat-shit crazy over Karneval. Thousands of people from all over will descend upon it for an afternoon parade and party blow-out into the evening.

We are located up a side valley, a dead-end basically, so they can close off the main road here without massively disrupting traffic and causing major detours, which is pretty much the case anywhere else in an around the Rhine valley.

For that, it is looking to be rainy and windy (at least mild, temps near 50°F) all afternoon, but I am not likely to venture outside today.

It’s pretty mild here too, about the same as your location - I have the window open and it’s nice to get some fresh air in the apartment.

110
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 3:06:19am

re: #109 Dr Lizardo

It’s pretty mild here too, about the same as your location - I have the window open and it’s nice to get some fresh air in the apartment.

I follow the vaunted German tradition of airing the place out once every day, usually first thing in the morning, regardless of temperature. Sometimes only five minutes or so in the dead of winter but longer if it is warmer.

Unlike Germans, I have screens on my windows in the warmer months. I live near a creek and have a streetlight outside my living room window so it attracts a lot of bugs otherwise.

111
Dr Lizardo  Feb 23, 2020 • 3:08:32am

re: #110 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I follow the vaunted German tradition of airing the place out once every day, usually first thing in the morning, regardless of temperature. Sometimes only five minutes or so in the dead of winter but longer if it is warmer.

Unlike Germans, I have screens on my windows in the warmer months. I live near a creek and have a streetlight outside my living room window so it attracts a lot of bugs otherwise.

I only open the windows when it’s mild outside….but like you, I have a window screen as well. Windowscreens are slow but surely becoming more common here.

112
unproven innocence  Feb 23, 2020 • 4:03:19am

I don’t care if this has already been posted; it bears repeating:

113
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 4:06:32am

re: #112 unproven innocence

I don’t care if this has already been posted; it bears repeating:

[Embedded content]

FFS, even the Soviets felt bad about sending firefighters in to contain the fires at Chernobyl NPP.

114
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 4:16:40am

re: #112 unproven innocence

I don’t care if this has already been posted; it bears repeating:

[Embedded content]

115
Patricia Kayden  Feb 23, 2020 • 4:43:11am

re: #107 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Sounds like fun, actually. I assume it’s much more subdued than the Carnival festivals in Trinidad or Brazil.

116
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 4:46:50am

re: #115 Patricia Kayden

Sounds like fun, actually. I assume it’s much more subdued than the Carnival festivals in Trinidad or Brazil.

Germans who all know they won’t be driving for 12 hours because the only road to the Dorf is closed?

Do not not count on it being any less-debauched.

117
steve_davis  Feb 23, 2020 • 4:52:53am

re: #33 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Oh, so he finally did kill himself launching his Flat Earth rocket? It’s sad to see someone die, but honestly, we all saw it coming.

Mad Mike: “I don’t believe in physics!”
Gravity: (sigh) “Hold my beer…..”

118
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 4:53:43am

re: #117 steve_davis

Mad Mike: “I don’t believe in physics!”
Gravity: (sigh) “Hold my beer…..”

I like your line, but how ‘bout mine:

Physics: “That’s fine, I believe in you anyway.” ?

119
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Feb 23, 2020 • 5:18:24am

re: #93 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I thought it was for anyone who, voluntarily and through their own stupidity, removed themselves from the reproductive cycle by self-induced death or disfigurement.

True that. Besides, successful con-artists can still find reproductive opportunities at quite advanced ages.

120
mmmirele  Feb 23, 2020 • 5:29:18am

re: #112 unproven innocence

I don’t care if this has already been posted; it bears repeating:

[Embedded content]

We’ll know it’s bad if the Haru (spring) sumo basho in Osaka beginning March 8 is either called off or severely limited (no audience, rikishis and support staff only). The problem is the Sumo Association is as sclerotic as the Japanese government and I could see them going ahead with a basho even with the coronavirus running rampant.

ETA: A basho is 15 days of sumo wrestling in rather close quarters (in this case, the Osaka Prefectural Gymnasium). The venue seats 8,000.

121
jeffreyw  Feb 23, 2020 • 5:31:05am

Mighty Jay Has Come To Save The Day!

Good morning!

122
Shropshire Slasher  Feb 23, 2020 • 5:31:51am

re: #117 steve_davis

Mad Mike: “I don’t believe in physics!”
Gravity: (sigh) “Hold my beer…..”

I think my Estes model rocket flew higher, and my parachute usually worked.
He should have stayed with limo driving.

123
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 5:35:15am

The big problem that Berners refuse to accept is that only a small fraction of Dems actually caucus in NV, and that caucus goers do not, I repeat, do not represent the general population.

Indeed, the DNC shouldn’t have even allowed caucuses anymore, but coughed up the money to pay the states of Iowa and Nevada to hold primaries. Iowans would whine because they couldn’t be “first in the nation” anymore, but so what.

124
Patricia Kayden  Feb 23, 2020 • 5:45:23am

re: #116 Chrysicat

😂 Understood. Lots of beer and merriment. I looked up some past Karnevals and looks like a lot of costumes and parades.

125
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 5:47:38am
126
CarolJ  Feb 23, 2020 • 5:54:34am

re: #119 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

Think of cult leaders. Ever have one with just one spouse (legal)? A lot of them have/had second, third, fourth wives, not to mention girlfriends and hangers on. I was watching a video of someone who claims to be Charles Manson’s son, and there are a few more that are claimants. He even married once, briefly. So who knows how many are out there with various claims? Even female cult leaders have at least 2 husbands. Charisma attracts, but living with them is often hard to say the least.

127
Dr Lizardo  Feb 23, 2020 • 5:56:36am

re: #126 CarolJ

Think of cult leaders. Ever have one with just one spouse (legal)? A lot of them have/had second, third, fourth wives, not to mention girlfriends and hangers on. I was watching a video of someone who claims to be Charles Manson’s son, and there are a few more that are claimants. He even married once, briefly. So who knows how many are out there with various claims? Even female cult leaders have at least 2 husbands. Charisma attracts, but living with them is often hard to say the least.

It’s certainly possible that Manson may well have had several illegitimate children.

128
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:06:33am

So it’s gonna be one of those Twitter days. Makes yesterday’s controversy over “Africanised/Africanized” look minor by comparison.

129
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:14:29am
130
LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:22:33am

re: #129 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

[Embedded content]

I’m dreading it.

131
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:26:57am
132
CarolJ  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:28:39am

Mansplaining. First female pope. Starts saying something about the Immaculate Conception. Cardinal comes over to explain the concept in further detail.

First woman on the Moon. Talks about her experience and her experiments with lunar geography. Retired male astronaut decides to correct her. Mansplaining.

Mansplaining. Sometimes helpful. Sometimes just a powerplay.

133
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:30:43am

The Berners continue to ignore reality: winning in NV doesn’t mean anything, even winning in California doesn’t mean anything. Us out here in the west are never going to vote for Trump.

What matters is:
Florida
Pennsylvania
North Carolina
Michigan
Wisconsin
Iowa

In that order. Those are the swing states that will decide who is in the White House come next January.

134
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:32:34am

re: #131 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

[Embedded content]

135
mmmirele  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:39:55am

re: #132 CarolJ

Mansplaining. First female pope. Starts saying something about the Immaculate Conception. Cardinal comes over to explain the concept in further detail.

First woman on the Moon. Talks about her experience and her experiences. Retired male astronaut decides to correct her. Mansplaining.

Mansplaining. Sometimes helpful. Sometimes just a powerplay.

Immaculate Conception = Mary conceived without the stain of sin

Virgin Birth = what it says.

A lot of people (even Catholics, apparently) mix them up. But a woman (I am one) can explain them, *even if I think they’re a crock and extremely unhelpful to women*.

136
Disloyal Archangel  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:42:09am

Greetings from the Land of Milk and Honey and New Insanity No. #24928168 - Health Edition.
For those wondering what I’m on about, (most, I have to imagine, since it’s apparently getting zero coverage beyond the country), well, in a nutshell: Idiot tourists have brought the Coronavirus to Israel, and just about everyone seems to be going insane.

The country started to worry a few days ago after Israelis who were on a cruise ship stuck off the coast of Japan because of Coronavirus concerns were evacuated back to Israel after other nations evacuated their tourists off the ship - and a couple of them were later confirmed to be infected with the virus upon arrival.

This seemed to be under control until reports started coming in that Israelis returning from Asian countries may have unknowingly been exposed to the virus, leading to the Israeli Ministry of Health issuing “light self quarantine” recommendations for them.

But things have been dialed up to 11 since last evening, when it was revealed that a group of South Korean tourists, who had traveled across both Israel AND the Palestinian Territories, included members who were infected with the Coronavirus the whole time. As of two hours ago, 18 of the South Korean tourists were confirmed to be infected. In their wake, approximately 200 Israelis have been quarantined as of now.

Seeing as they basically zigzagged across the country during their trip, the response has been about what you’d expect it to be:

Giphy

As a result, the Israeli Ministry of Health has gone into extreme overdrive.
Per its instructions, all flights from South Korea are being denied entry as of this morning, with over a thousand Koreans effectively stuck in the country at this time.
New instructions included testing for tourists and returning Israelis coming from Italy, Japan and Australia.
Officials from the Israeli Foreign Affairs and Tourism ministries lashed out against the Health Ministry yesterday, claiming that it was creating unnecessary panic, harming Israel’s relations with countries, and hurting Israel’s tourism industry. Today, both ministries have gone totally silent.
It was reported an hour ago that approx. 250 South Koreans would be housed for a few days in a quarantine facility in the town of Mt. Giloh; the residents are currently protesting/rioting in response.
Meanwhile, after the “self quarantine” recommendations were ignored by several Israelis returning from Asia, Health Minister Litzman announced that he wouldn’t hesitate to order the immediate arrest and detention of those violating the ministry’s instructions.
At the same time, in Gaza, the areas where the South Koreans visited are being sealed off, neighborhoods and businesses effectively locked down, and coordination is currently underway between Jerusalem and Gaza to try and handle the situation.

Lastly, with elections just 8 days away, everyone is also wondering how this could affect that as well, and it’s safe to say that all the parties are worried that it could lower turnout for the 3rd round of elections in under a year.

Right now, I’m just hoping to make it to my flight to the US in two weeks without incident…

137
retired cynic  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:42:21am

William Barr’s America vs. reality in 2020
Max Boot, WaPo

This is a good one, worth readying, with stats to back it up. Opening and closing paragraphs:

It has become conventional wisdom on the right that religion is under assault from secular liberals — and that the waning of faith is bad for America. …

Fundamentalists may be unhappy that religious observance has declined over the decades, but the data shows that, by most measurements, life has gotten much better for most people. There is little evidence that a decline in religiosity leads to a decline in society — or that high levels of religiosity strengthen society. (Remember, Rome fell after it converted to Christianity.) If anything, the evidence suggests that too much religion is bad for a country.

138
PhillyPretzel  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:45:24am

re: #133 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Very true. The fact that the Primary is in late April (April 28, 2020) instead of May says quite a bit. PA is a swing state and there are many people at the bus terminals and on the trains (commuter mostly) that are registering people to vote. Also the fact that I got my notice of classes in late February confirms that point.

139
Shropshire Slasher  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:48:30am

re: #136 Disloyal Archangel

Unfortunately, let the panic begin:

A surge in untraceable clusters of new coronavirus patients around the globe has caused experts to warn that ‘containment methods are not going to work’.

In South Korea, Singapore and Iran, clusters of infections are leading to a jump in cases of the new viral illness outside China. World Health Organization officials said China’s crackdown on parts of the country bought time for the rest of the world to prepare for the new virus.

But as hot spots emerge around the globe, trouble finding each source - the first patient who sparks every new cluster - might signal the disease has begun spreading too widely for tried-and-tested steps to stamp it out.

dailymail.co.uk

140
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:53:27am

re: #139 Shropshire Slasher

Unfortunately, let the panic begin:

dailymail.co.uk

Remember that computer game from five years ago? Someone upstairs finally figured out how to win it.

Maybe they’ll actually manage to close Madagascar to entry before the virus gets there.

141
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:55:55am

re: #139 Shropshire Slasher

The flu will probably still kill more people.

The death toll is relatively high ( a few percent of the reported cases of infection) in China, but how much of that is due to poor access to proper treatment?

142
Disloyal Archangel  Feb 23, 2020 • 6:57:11am

re: #136 Disloyal Archangel

Update: After publicly bitching about the Health Ministry’s actions, the Israeli Foreign Ministry has just issued a travel advisory for South Korea, warning Israelis from traveling there.
Someone’s eating a lot of crow today…

143
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:00:08am

re: #115 Patricia Kayden

Sounds like fun, actually. I assume it’s much more subdued than the Carnival festivals in Trinidad or Brazil.

Marching music, nothing you can really get down and dance to. It is THE major social event of the season.

144
Disloyal Archangel  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:02:42am

re: #140 Chrysicat

Remember that computer game from five years ago? Someone upstairs finally figured out how to win it.

Maybe they’ll actually manage to close Madagascar to entry before the virus gets there.

Plague Inc. maker: “Don’t use our game for Coronavirus modeling, it’s not a scientific model”

Plague Inc hits record player count due to Coronavirus

145
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:03:02am

re: #123 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

The big problem that Berners refuse to accept is that only a small fraction of Dems actually caucus in NV, and that caucus goers do not, I repeat, do not represent the general population.

“Bernie now front runner” after a couple of highly non-representative caucuses is just our press trying to spin a narrative out of next-to-nothing.

And that is just satisfying a public, many of whom are already so fed up with the campaign that they would just rather know how the election comes out so they can put it behind them.

146
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:06:33am

This morning, with 50% of the vote counted, Mayor Pete is clinging to 15% to qualify for Nv delegates. This is how a candidate could get enough delegates to win the nomination. Other candidates splintering the vote so much few of them qualify for delegates, allowing the winner to get over half. I know many of you think the worst out come would be nominating Sanders. I think the worst outcome would be a convention battle that leaves the party divided. We need to unify the anti-Trump vote behind the nominee. If we do that, we win.

147
b.d. (We're gonna win)  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:09:55am

Good Morning Lizards:

lol

148
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:11:08am

re: #145 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Berners often refuse to do a state by state about how Bernie can beat Trump in the electoral college. Berners are hung up in national popularity polling, but is not how we elect a President.

How will Bernie do in North Carolina, where Democrats have only recently been able to make that a purple state, a state in which Je$u$ is still the go-to way of making money?

How will Bernie do in Florida, which already votes for Republicans who keep attacking safety nets, when Florida retirees are already willing to vote for a conman like Trump because ‘MURICA?

How will Bernie do in Pennsylvania, a state notorious for having two distinct electorates: Philadelphia, and everywhere else in the state (this is a similar situation as in Illinois)??? PA is a very tricky state where Clinton should have done better (by historical measures) but clearly has been on a path of rust-belt resentment that Trump exploited.

Of course Trump, being addled that he is, and old (like Bernie), could do something so gigantically stupid between now and election day that Bernie could win those states.

149
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:11:48am

re: #145 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

“Bernie now front runner” after a couple of highly non-representative caucuses is just our press trying to spin a narrative out of next-to-nothing.

And that is just satisfying a public, many of whom are already so fed up with the campaign that they would just rather know how the election comes out so they can put it behind them.

But the polling shows that Bernie is leading in Ca and Tx, and that he is the most popular Democrat. We also can’t assume that if Biden dropped out and endorsed Pete or Amy or Elizabeth, his voters would follow. Polls show that the leading second choice for Biden supporters is Sanders.

150
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:15:00am

re: #146 NO SMOCKING GUN!

This morning, with 50% of the vote counted, Mayor Pete is clinging to 15% to qualify for Nv delegates. This is how a candidate could get enough delegates to win the nomination. Other candidates splintering the vote so much few of them qualify for delegates, allowing the winner to get over half. I know many of you think the worst out come would be nominating Sanders. I think the worst outcome would be a convention battle that leaves the party divided. We need to unify the anti-Trump vote behind the nominee. If we do that, we win.

The party will need to find a way to embrace the eventual nominee, but that’s a discussion for months from now, when it has become mathematically certain that a candidate can win the nomination on the first ballot. And if we don’t reach that point before the convention, then we need to begin discussing how a candidate can reach that point.

Right now, saying any one candidate should be embraced because only they can defeat Trump is ridiculous. As I stated last night, any one or a combination of the candidates who appeared in the last debate could beat Trump. If a voter wants to support one candidate over the others because they like their proposals or ideals, then bully to them and I hope they’re doing everything they can to support their chosen candidate. But if they’re supporting a candidate because “electability” or because “only they can draw in [insert voter bloc],” then you’re engaged in pure foolishness.

151
Belafon  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:16:01am

re: #123 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

The big problem that Berners refuse to accept is that only a small fraction of Dems actually caucus in NV, and that caucus goers do not, I repeat, do not represent the general population.

Indeed, the DNC shouldn’t have even allowed caucuses anymore, but coughed up the money to pay the states of Iowa and Nevada to hold primaries. Iowans would whine because they couldn’t be “first in the nation” anymore, but so what.

We could show them in South Carolina and on Super Tuesday, but the non-Bernie vote is being divided in multiple ways. Without some of the candidates dropping out, it’s just going to be harder to coalesce around one.

152
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:17:17am

This year is shaping up into what ‘04 would have been had Dean not fizzled out in Iowa. Oh, how he might have gotten further with modern social media…

153
PhillyPretzel  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:22:57am

I found on the website 270 to win (270towin.com) why PA is having its primary in April. PA is grouped with Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, New York and Rhode Island. This in some places has been called the Acela Primaries.

154
jaunte  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:23:24am
155
mmmirele  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:25:41am

re: #136 Disloyal Archangel

Question: Was there any indication in the Israeli press that the people from South Korea were members of the Shincheonji church? Apparently that church is a hotspot for infection in South Korea and I’m just trying to figure out if that was the vector for it getting into Israel. The government is also having a difficult time tracking down church members for testing, because members are often secretive about their membership in what many people consider a cult.

Oh, and speaking of weird vectors, has anyone heard what has caused the cases in Iran? I’m thinking the original spreader was probably a pilgrim visiting Qom, but where did they come from?

156
ericblair  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:25:56am

re: #146 NO SMOCKING GUN!

This morning, with 50% of the vote counted, Mayor Pete is clinging to 15% to qualify for Nv delegates. This is how a candidate could get enough delegates to win the nomination. Other candidates splintering the vote so much few of them qualify for delegates, allowing the winner to get over half. I know many of you think the worst out come would be nominating Sanders. I think the worst outcome would be a convention battle that leaves the party divided. We need to unify the anti-Trump vote behind the nominee. If we do that, we win.

If a candidate gets over 50% of pledged delegates on the first round, they win. Then the rest of the Democrats suck it up and get she/he over the finish line.

If not, there is a “contested convention”; those are the rules as agreed. There is a concentrated effort right now to make this sound like the end of the world, and splinter the party beyond repair. This is the same campaign that was trying to deny the holder of the majority (not plurality) of delegates the nomination in 2016, so I’m not exactly convinced of their sincerity.

I don’t even get the logic of this. How would a plurality delegate holder unite the party over someone who had to get a majority of delegates? How would someone who couldn’t get over 50% of the democratically-elected delegates of the first ballot a uniter over someone who could pull together 50% after making enough agreements to satisfy enough of the others to pull through?

157
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:27:08am

re: #151 Belafon

In the big (as in really big) picture, I think all this stems from the problem with the office of President, it not really being a democratic institution, more like a hold over from a time when landed patriarchy ran the world (which it still does in many respects.)

Some time ago I came to the conclusion that a parliamentary system is better as a way of governing a large nation.

Trump may know all of this intuitively, or did until he became decrepit with age. The machinery of the GOP certainly knows this. They are all in to turning the clock back to the 18th century.

How we get back on a track to move forward is a hard one. Bernie is a phantom when it comes to the real hard policy choices. Offering gimmicks like free college is just a way to bribe certain parts of the electorate, for a time.

We are a very militaristic nation and our national budget reflects that. We can’t afford (nor can the rest of the world.) Notice how Bernie doesn’t talk about this much.

We are a nation fixated on guns, due to some deep psychological needs and programming. Notice how Bernie doesn’t talk much about this.

We are a nation still clinging to Bibles. Notice how Bernie doesn’t talk about this much.

Berners like to cry “policy” but they avoid so many hard problems.

When the GOP starts running ads showing how much more in taxes the average worker is going to have to pay for Bernie’s programs, Bernie will lose some voters. How many I don’t know. But all that matters really is PA and FL, and those are the states where those kind of voters live.

158
jaunte  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:30:21am

“…One [of Trump’s business partners in India] is accused of massive fraud, while the other is facing a funding crunch. Both of them have close ties to India’s ruling Bharatiya Janata Party headed by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.”
washingtonpost.com

159
PhillyPretzel  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:32:14am

re: #158 jaunte

Sounds like DT’s kind of people.

160
secretslothbear  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:33:27am

In 2016, Sanders won 51 delegates out of 103 from the first three states.

Depending on the outstanding vote on Nevada, he’s currently on track to have somewhere between 43 and 48 out of 101. So far he’s had the advantage that comes with reaching the viability threshold nearly everywhere, while the moderate lane remains clogged, but he’s still behind his 2016 pace.

161
jaunte  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:33:34am

re: #159 PhillyPretzel

“[The Trump New Delhi] project ran into trouble when IREO was accused in 2018 by two of its investors of a massive financial fraud worth at least $147 million.”

162
jaunte  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:35:01am

Duping the rubes with glitter, worldwide.

163
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:35:52am

re: #156 ericblair

If a candidate gets over 50% of pledged delegates on the first round, they win. Then the rest of the Democrats suck it up and get she/he over the finish line.

If not, there is a “contested convention”; those are the rules as agreed. There is a concentrated effort right now to make this sound like the end of the world, and splinter the party beyond repair. This is the same campaign that was trying to deny the holder of the majority (not plurality) of delegates the nomination in 2016, so I’m not exactly convinced of their sincerity.

I don’t even get the logic of this. How would a plurality delegate holder unite the party over someone who had to get a majority of delegates? How would someone who couldn’t get over 50% of the democratically-elected delegates of the first ballot a uniter over someone who could pull together 50% after making enough agreements to satisfy enough of the others to pull through?

“But it wouldn’t be fair!” is going to be the answer, that if Bernie shows up with even less than 40% of the total delegates, he should still be crowned because the other remaining candidate(s) pooling their delegates together after the first ballot to get that 50%+ on the next would cheese off the same voters who are going to be cheesed off even if another candidate manages to make it to the convention with enough delegates to win on the first ballot without horse-trading.

We’re months away from the convention and yet we’re supposed to act as though Day One is next week and there’s no clear winner set to take the nomination on the first ballot. And being sold the idea of a Bernie nomination based upon this idea that only his supporters can take the party to victory and so we must appease them if we want to avoid Trump winning a second term. IOW, we’re getting the very treatment that Berners screamed bloody murder about in 2016 when he was the guy running behind in the polls and people were telling them they’d have to support Hillary if they wanted to avoid a Trump presidency.

164
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:36:55am

re: #156 ericblair

If a candidate gets over 50% of pledged delegates on the first round, they win. Then the rest of the Democrats suck it up and get she/he over the finish line.

If not, there is a “contested convention”; those are the rules as agreed. There is a concentrated effort right now to make this sound like the end of the world, and splinter the party beyond repair. This is the same campaign that was trying to deny the holder of the majority (not plurality) of delegates the nomination in 2016, so I’m not exactly convinced of their sincerity.

I don’t even get the logic of this. How would a plurality delegate holder unite the party over someone who had to get a majority of delegates? How would someone who couldn’t get over 50% of the democratically-elected delegates of the first ballot a uniter over someone who could pull together 50% after making enough agreements to satisfy enough of the others to pull through?

Here is the thing, and I know it sounds unfair, but that’s politics. Bernie’ s supporters are young and least connected to the Democratic party. If he is the leading vote getter and leads in delegates by a large margin going into the convention, and then he isn’t nominated, a lot of them may not vote or vote third party, and that creates an opening for Trump. OTOH, Bernie is popular with regular Democrats, and they will vote for him even if he wasn’t their first choice. I just hope someone gets a majority before the convention, even if it is Bernie. I don’t care about fairness, I just want to beat Trump.

165
A hollow voice says, Guilty, guilty, guilty!  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:41:23am

re: #141 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

The flu will probably still kill more people.

The death toll is relatively high ( a few percent of the reported cases of infection) in China, but how much of that is due to poor access to proper treatment?

Even more important, how many unreported cases aren’t in those numbers, especially in China? It’s been reported that the disease is often no more serious than a cold, and mistaken for that.

Also, look at the Diamond Princess numbers, where they’re much more likely to have captured all or almost all cases: 634 cases, 27 serious/critical, 2 deaths. (The “non-serious” cases aren’t getting exceptional treatments, there are no treatments. They’re just going into this in “first-world” health. And the crew, going into it with youth, aren’t getting it at all, it seems. So far.)

At this point, I’m not managing to feel personally threatened by this. (We should be worrying about populations that don’t have access to good medical care.)

166
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:41:29am

re: #160 secretslothbear

In 2016, Sanders won 51 delegates out of 103 from the first three states.

Depending on the outstanding vote on Nevada, he’s currently on track to have somewhere between 43 and 48 out of 101. So far he’s had the advantage that comes with reaching the viability threshold nearly everywhere, while the moderate lane remains clogged, but he’s still behind his 2016 pace.

Yep he had just one opponent; now there are a half dozen others, and by the time they winnow down after Super Tuesday, Sanders may have an insurmountable lead.

167
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:42:47am

re: #135 mmmirele

Immaculate Conception = Mary conceived without the stain of sin

Virgin Birth = what it says.

A lot of people (even Catholics, apparently) mix them up. But a woman (I am one) can explain them, *even if I think they’re a crock and extremely unhelpful to women*.

Another biblical miracle that nobody ever talks about is the birth of Isaac. HIS MOTHER WAS 90 YEARS OLD. Tell me that is less of a miracle than a young woman of childbearing age giving birth, allegedly without a male partner.

168
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:42:53am

re: #161 jaunte

“[The Trump New Delhi] project ran into trouble when IREO was accused in 2018 by two of its investors of a massive financial fraud worth at least $147 million.”

I’m sure Trump will do his duty, call Midi, and ask him to investigate this corruption. //

169
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:45:21am

re: #164 NO SMOCKING GUN!

Here is the thing, and I know it sounds unfair, but that’s politics. Bernie’ s supporters are young and least connected to the Democratic party. If he is the leading vote getter and leads in delegates by a large margin going into the convention, and then he isn’t nominated, a lot of them may not vote or vote third party, and that creates an opening for Trump. OTOH, Bernie is popular with regular Democrats, and they will vote for him even if he wasn’t their first choice. I just hope someone gets a majority before the convention, even if it is Bernie. I don’t care about fairness, I just want to beat Trump.

It’s sad that I have to say this at only 35 years on this Earth, but that’s fucking life. If you’re so devoted to a cause that failure means you log off and walk away, then you’re never going to get anywhere. Your ideas aren’t going to be taken seriously, nobody’s going to want to listen to you, and you’re going to find that the people whose ideas are horrific are running things. If Bernie arrives with a plurality, loses on the first ballot, and then loses on a subsequent ballot to a candidate with a majority, then the party has spoken and those “youts” need to grow the fuck up and accept that.

You wanna splinter the vote so badly that Trump glides to reelection? Get to the convention and then declare that, since no one candidate has enough delegates to win a majority vote on the first ballot, the party will instead just be handing it to Bernie because actually making him work within the rules every candidate agreed to would piss off his supporters.

170
Florida Panhandler  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:46:28am

I never considered India as a refuge for a fleeing trump Crime Family after an election loss, but here we are.

This trip is probably in part a test run and political analysis of how Trump being in India plays inside Indian politics. Even though India does have an Extradition Treaty with the US they always played both sides in the Soviet/Russia/USA hegemony and are likely not that afraid of any American pressure to return a fleeing criminal Trump. This is especially true since it seems Trump may be up to his eyeballs in yet more shady dealings with powerful Indian crimelords who prize immunity from prosecution themselves.

171
mmmirele  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:47:56am

A very popular tourist attraction in Tokyo, the Studio Ghibli museum, is closing beginning Tuesday through March 17.

TOKYO (Kyodo) — The world-famous Ghibli Museum in Tokyo, featuring the works of Japanese animator Hayao Miyazaki, will be closed from Tuesday through March 17 due to the coronavirus outbreak.

The museum in Mitaka said Saturday that the decision was made after consultation with the city and that it will offer refunds for tickets already purchased for February and March visits.

The announcement referred to the Tokyo metropolitan government’s policy to cancel or put off upcoming major events, with the next three weeks considered an important period to contain the outbreak.

The museum, led by Miyazaki since its opening in 2001, requires advance reservations for admission and only up to 2,400 visitors are allowed to enter each day.

mainichi.jp

A lot of people are going to be very disappointed. It’s hard to get tickets to the Ghibli museum.

172
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:48:55am

re: #169 Targetpractice

It’s sad that I have to say this at only 35 years on this Earth, but that’s fucking life. If you’re so devoted to a cause that failure means you log off and walk away, then you’re never going to get anywhere. Your ideas aren’t going to be taken seriously, nobody’s going to want to listen to you, and you’re going to find that the people whose ideas are horrific are running things. If Bernie arrives with a plurality, loses on the first ballot, and then loses on a subsequent ballot to a candidate with a majority, then the party has spoken and those “youts” need to grow the fuck up and accept that.

You wanna splinter the vote so badly that Trump glides to reelection? Get to the convention and then declare that, since no one candidate has enough delegates to win a majority vote on the first ballot, the party will instead just be handing it to Bernie because actually making him work within the rules every candidate agreed to would piss off his supporters.

Sorry, but getting a hectoring lecture from old people about how they need to grow up and fall in line doesn’t sound like a sure fire way to fire up the youth vote to me.

173
secretslothbear  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:50:06am

re: #166 NO SMOCKING GUN!

Yep he had just one opponent; now there are a half dozen others, and by the time they winnow down after Super Tuesday, Sanders may have an insurmountable lead.

Possibly, but a majority seems unlikely. This is why his campaign is floating the idea of crowning the plurality winner, and threatening to burn shit down if they don’t get their way. But they’d make the same threat even if he doesn’t win a plurality.

174
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:51:25am

re: #165 A hollow voice says, Guilty, guilty, guilty!

Flu cases result in around .2% of said cases ending in death, thereabouts, in the US. It’s not clear to me that the coronavirus will be much different.

re: #171 mmmirele

The Japanese can be notoriously fickle about infections and public health. When you see all those face masks they wear in public, it is not about catching a disease, it’s about giving it to another, so if your’e Japanese and ill you’re supposed to wear a mask out in public.

175
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:51:51am

re: #172 NO SMOCKING GUN!

Sorry, but getting a hectoring lecture from old people about how they need to grow up and fall in line doesn’t sound like a sure fire way to fire up the youth vote to me.

The minimum age to vote in this country (last I checked) is 18 years of age, way too fucking late for them to need a lesson on why rules exist, more so when you agree to a set of rules only to then whine when those rules keep you from getting what you want. Bernie agreed to the same rules as the rest of the field, he does not get special treatment because the mewling masses might not like the way things play out.

176
jaunte  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:54:42am
177
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:56:47am

re: #175 Targetpractice

The minimum age to vote in this country (last I checked) is 18 years of age, way too fucking late for them to need a lesson on why rules exist, more so when you agree to a set of rules only to then whine when those rules keep you from getting what you want. Bernie agreed to the same rules as the rest of the field, he does not get special treatment because the mewling masses might not like the way things play out.

We need the votes of those “mewling masses”, and sneering at them isn’t going to defeat Trump. We need to inspire them.

178
John Hughes  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:58:40am

re: #52 CarolJ

As Stross points out on his seminal paper on the physics and biology of flat earths, Missile Gap, you can’t launch a rocket from a flat earth.

179
A hollow voice says, Guilty, guilty, guilty!  Feb 23, 2020 • 7:59:14am

Southern (hemisphere) good morning!

180
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:02:42am

re: #177 NO SMOCKING GUN!

We need the votes of those “mewling masses”, and sneering at them isn’t going to defeat Trump. We need to inspire them.

Not if it is going to cost us votes to retain them. If Bernie can win the nomination on the first ballot or later ballots by winning delegates from other candidates or superdelegates who can weigh in after that first ballot, then a lot of people are going to find something to bite down on and pull the lever for him in November. But if you go to the convention and crown him the nominee simply because you don’t want to anger the kiddies, then you might as well write off the election because the party stalwarts are gonna bail en-mass.

181
PhillyPretzel  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:03:14am

re: #179 A hollow voice says, Guilty, guilty, guilty!

He looks cheery. :)

182
A hollow voice says, Guilty, guilty, guilty!  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:06:03am

re: #181 PhillyPretzel

He looks cheery. :)

He’s there voluntarily. Treated at that sanctuary and free to go at any time.

183
retired cynic  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:06:44am

Sheldon Whitehouse Is Going to War Against the Federalist Society Over Court-Packing
The Democratic senator does not mince words: dark-money interests are attempting to rig the judicial system, including the Supreme Court. Charlie Pierce

Now this is interesting, and it came in on an email that I missed a week or so ago. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, Democrat of Rhode Island, is going to war with the Federalist Society, and that particular wingnut legal terrarium is not happy about it. In December, Whitehouse spoke to the National Press Club on the subject of dark money’s influence on the judiciary.

184
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:10:06am

re: #180 Targetpractice

Not if it is going to cost us votes to retain them. If Bernie can win the nomination on the first ballot or later ballots by winning delegates from other candidates or superdelegates who can weigh in after that first ballot, then a lot of people are going to find something to bite down on and pull the lever for him in November. But if you go to the convention and crown him the nominee simply because you don’t want to anger the kiddies, then you might as well write off the election because the party stalwarts are gonna bail en-mass.

He literally can’t win the nomination that way. I’m hoping the frontrunner at the end of the primaries, whether its Sanders or someone else, will have a majority of delegates going into the convention, either because he won them or through deals with the other candidates with delegates, so that the convention is a unifying process and not a divisive battle. The party stalwarts are the least likely to bail; that is why they are stalwarts.

185
jaunte  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:11:58am
186
retired cynic  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:12:10am

Charlie Pierce points out that it is not a percentage that a candidate needs. They need 1,991 delegates to become the Democratic nominee, and that all candidates agreed to follow those rules in order to run as a Democrat. esquire.com

187
retired cynic  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:14:09am

re: #185 jaunte

no no no no no no no no no

188
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:15:12am

re: #184 NO SMOCKING GUN!

He literally can’t win the nomination that way. I’m hoping the frontrunner at the end of the primaries, whether its Sanders or someone else, will have a majority of delegates going into the convention, either because he won them or through deals with the other candidates with delegates, so that the convention is a unifying process and not a divisive battle. The party stalwarts are the least likely to bail; that is why they are stalwarts.

That’s because they are supportive of the party and tend to get behind candidates who support the party as well. So if they get to the convention and feel that Bernie was pushed upon them in the name of “party unity,” they’re going to start questioning their support for the party. Again, they’ll bite their lips and vote for him if he wins within the boundaries of the rules. But if the party looks like they’re carving out an exception just to appease his supporters, a lot of those stalwarts will un-ass and do so in a hurry.

189
GlutenFreeJesus  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:16:13am

re: #176 jaunte

Bernie Madoff: Nobody told me they were investigating me!

190
jaunte  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:18:31am
191
LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:18:51am

It’s gotten worse since the impeachment.

192
Disloyal Archangel  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:18:55am

Update: Approx. 30 of the Israelis being quarantined after coming in contact with the infected South Korean group are all from a junior high school class that was touring a stalagmite cave at the same time as the Koreans.

re: #155 mmmirele

Question: Was there any indication in the Israeli press that the people from South Korea were members of the Shincheonji church? Apparently that church is a hotspot for infection in South Korea and I’m just trying to figure out if that was the vector for it getting into Israel. The government is also having a difficult time tracking down church members for testing, because members are often secretive about their membership in what many people consider a cult.

Oh, and speaking of weird vectors, has anyone heard what has caused the cases in Iran? I’m thinking the original spreader was probably a pilgrim visiting Qom, but where did they come from?

Answer: The Israeli press hasn’t named the place they came from within South Korea; However, a single report, the initial one by Ynet from yesterday afternoon, specifies that they are [קבוצת צליינים שהגיעה לארץ, לביקור שאותו ארגנה הכנסייה שלהם ]- “A group of pilgrims that arrived in the country, as part of a visit organized by their church.” Make of that what you will…

The cases in Iran are unclear at this stage insofar as I can figure out. We’ll probably get more information that clarify them in the coming days.

193
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:20:49am

re: #190 jaunte

[Embedded content]

They always insist that he’s “tough” on Russia, but can never spell out how that it is.

Sanctions? He’s been trying to get they removed, only stopped by the fact that he doesn’t have the votes in Congress to do so.

Tariffs? He’s carved out exceptions for Russian interests, particularly those that go to Republicans.

Embargo? Negative.

Talking tough? Exact opposite, he’s been Putin’s little bitch on the world stage and argued aloud time and again about why he so badly wants to be Vlad’s friend.

194
jaunte  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:20:50am

It would be great if the reporting of all these lies would stop using words like “misstatement” and “deflection” and began saying “information warfare.”

195
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:22:56am

re: #174 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Flu cases result in around .2% of said cases ending in death, thereabouts, in the US. It’s not clear to me that the coronavirus will be much different. …

Isn’t seasonal flu mortality less than .1%? That said, we still don’t know how many coronavirus cases there actually are. But based on reported cases, South Korea is now at 1% and the Diamond Princess is at about .5%. Iran is a real outlier (8 deaths out of 43 cases), but that certainly seems to be due to lack of identification of mild cases.

196
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:22:56am

re: #188 Targetpractice

That’s because they are supportive of the party and tend to get behind candidates who support the party as well. So if they get to the convention and feel that Bernie was pushed upon them in the name of “party unity,” they’re going to start questioning their support for the party. Again, they’ll bite their lips and vote for him if he wins within the boundaries of the rules. But if the party looks like they’re carving out an exception just to appease his supporters, a lot of those stalwarts will un-ass and do so in a hurry.

The party won’t carve out an exception for him, but it would be a huge mistake if Sanders is denied the nomination if he leads all the other candidates by a big margin, as seems likely. Here is an article explaining why a Sanders nomination should not be feared. vox.com

197
Florida Panhandler  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:23:05am

re: #193 Targetpractice

Not to mention Trump’s insistance that arms sales in the Russian theater cannot be used against Russia.

198
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:31:00am

re: #196 NO SMOCKING GUN!

Yglesias puts too much stock in Vermont elections, as if the rest of the nation will react like the residents of that (small) state.

Sanders has yet to be hit hard by the right-wing attack machine. They will take every criticism that Sanders has made of Israel, and tell the masses of Americans that Sanders hates Je$u$ (because Israel = Je$u$.)

Sure, that won’t work here in California, but again, the election outcome does not turn on California because Trump can’t win here no matter what.

But in highly religious states - and all the swing states are highly religious - it will matter.

199
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:31:04am

re: #196 NO SMOCKING GUN!

The party won’t carve out an exception for him, but it would be a huge mistake if Sanders is denied the nomination if he leads all the other candidates by a big margin, as seems likely. Here is an article explaining why a Sanders nomination should not be feared. vox.com

You say they won’t carve out an exception, then immediately after say it would be a “mistake” if they don’t. It doesn’t matter how much of a lead he has going into the convention, if he can’t pull 1,991 delegates together to win outright, then he either has to find them at the convention or he’s not the nominee. Those are the rules he agreed to, same as Biden or Warren or even Gabbard.

I’m not interested in being sold on a Sanders nomination before he’s actually won the nomination. It is way too fucking early in this whole thing to tell me that it’s all over and I need to welcome my new “progressive” overlord.

200
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:31:54am
201
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:33:45am
202
LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:35:36am

re: #199 Targetpractice

You say they won’t carve out an exception, then immediately after say it would be a “mistake” if they don’t. It doesn’t matter how much of a lead he has going into the convention, if he can’t pull 1,991 delegates together to win outright, then he either has to find them at the convention or he’s not the nominee. Those are the rules he agreed to, same as Biden or Warren or even Gabbard.

I’m not interested in being sold on a Sanders nomination before he’s actually won the nomination. It is way too fucking early in this whole thing to tell me that it’s all over and I need to welcome my new “progressive” overlord.

Two of the three first states have been caucuses and the other a primary that borders his home state. And if he is the true front runner, he should be reaching out more. He’s going to be the face of a party he’s never formally joined. Maybe his surrogates on and offline could try to be a little less jerky.

203
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:36:05am

re: #198 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Yglesias puts too much stock in Vermont elections, as if the rest of the nation will react like the residents of that (small) state.

Sanders has yet to be hit hard by the right-wing attack machine. They will take every criticism that Sanders has made of Israel, and tell the masses of Americans that Sanders hates Je$u$ (because Israel = Je$u$.)

Sure, that won’t work here in California, but again, the election outcome does not turn on California because Trump can’t win here no matter what.

But in highly religious states - and all the swing states are highly religious - it will matter.

Also, it is MattY. He’s been in the tank for Bernie ever since 2015 and believes that he’d have won in a landslide if we’d just ignored the majority of 2016 Dems wanted to nominate Hillary, not a man even older than her.

204
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:36:34am

Yglesias is from NYC and lives in DC. He has no instincts about how Americans in fly-over country will react.

YFqrs3U6JJGcB5XkBQ7mm84V1s3+DcHi93EUFBmmOZVJqAZCoBZyZjH1vQg9ZyHGl+/OkrLjRMBhb2GDxCckCWyEb051tmtuahCJd/dgMR0ZQZ6Kvx8zz/qUSC6E1+ZWuK+ka4clBK3XP9i94jic2cBa28qKBdJJYy2qgQqEIfQnWVCspCtuRflDW7dB2J+QZMmXtDQ8ptOrIQUwGJPrTQy4taIb2u6vByRGrH5EAt/lDpJFko+RQdZBtvmRxXiDQYJJl6/2SakzmoIIfI03OGs/UOC9+XJsvG39BgZY8ak=

205
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:37:08am

re: #198 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Yglesias puts too much stock in Vermont elections, as if the rest of the nation will react like the residents of that (small) state.

Sanders has yet to be hit hard by the right-wing attack machine. They will take every criticism that Sanders has made of Israel, and tell the masses of Americans that Sanders hates Je$u$ (because Israel = Je$u$.)

Sure, that won’t work here in California, but again, the election outcome does not turn on California because Trump can’t win here no matter what.

But in highly religious states - and all the swing states are highly religious - it will matter.

People moved by those kind of attacks are already Republicans. Sanders is the candidate best positioned to expand the Democratic electorate by turning out a record youth vote, who are much less religious than older generations.

206
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:38:26am

re: #205 NO SMOCKING GUN!

People moved by those kind of attacks are already Republicans. Sanders is the candidate best positioned to expand the Democratic electorate by turning out a record youth vote, who are much less religious than older generations.

Right, we should gamble the election on the most unreliable voter bloc. Solid strategy, Custer.

//

207
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:39:53am

re: #205 NO SMOCKING GUN!

People moved by those kind of attacks are already Republicans.

Here I disagree. Many people registered as Democrats are still religious. This is why even in the Democratic party, being an atheist is a very minority position among elected Democrats.

Sure, out here on the west coast (CA, OR, WA) the Democratic party is less religious, but again, Trump will never win these states.

Bernie has to win at least two out of {OH, PA, FL} and once it is known he hates Je$u$, good luck on selling him in those states.

208
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:40:22am

re: #201 Chrysicat

Isn’t that how we ended up in Iraq under Bush 43? The intelligence service confirmed “evidence” of WMD.

209
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:41:49am

re: #206 Targetpractice

Right, we should gamble the election on the most unreliable voter bloc. Solid strategy, Custer.

//

If there is a way to lose any of the solid twelve states, “running Bernie” is it. We’re literally being asked to rely on people the same age today as their parents were when they nominated McGovern in a landslide and then failed to show up for the general.

I have no faith they’ll be enough to overcome an 80% Trump-or-third-party vote from the Boomers instead of 65% with any other Dem.

210
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:42:52am

re: #206 Targetpractice

Right, we should gamble the election on the most unreliable voter bloc. Solid strategy, Custer.

//

I tell you what won’t work. Trying to get Republican votes, Pete’s and Amy’s plan. Republicans LOVE Trump. If you want to write off the youth vote, you might as well hand the keys to the WH to Trump for another 4 years.

211
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:43:15am

re: #209 Chrysicat

If there is a way to lose any of the solid twelve states, “running Bernie” is it. We’re literally being asked to rely on people the same age today as their parents were when they nominated McGovern in a landslide and then failed to show up for the general.

I have no faith they’ll be enough to overcome an 80% Trump-or-third-party vote from the Boomers instead of 65% with any other Dem.

Errr, “as their grandparents were”, rather. I knew what I was thinking but I didn’t doublecheck my finger-work.

212
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:46:00am

The power of religion in American politics is so great that Trump uses it to corral almost the entire Republican party. Even though many of the Republican Senators or Reps may hate him in private, they know that they are in office because the religious right took over the GOP.

So Trump plays fake-Christian to force their hand.

213
Dr Lizardo  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:46:16am
214
BigPapa  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:46:23am

re: #208 Hecuba’s daughter

Isn’t that how we ended up in Iraq under Bush 43? The intelligence service confirmed “evidence” of WMD.

It’s like they want to have their yellowcake and eat it too.

215
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:51:17am
216
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:52:04am

re: #210 NO SMOCKING GUN!

… If you want to write off the youth vote, you might as well has the keys to the WH to Trump for another 4 years.

First off, where are these masses of youth in the 3 contests so far? Turnout has not been spectacular.

But more importantly, once again, to defeat Trump what needs to be done is flipping PA and FL. Do you expect fewer youth to vote for, say Buttigieg or Biden, than for Hillary?

This is what American Presidential politics is about: playing the margins in a few key states.

217
secretslothbear  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:52:31am

If no one arrives in Milwaukee with 1991 delegates, there’s going to be bad blood whoever wins on the second ballot. It’s a long shot, but maybe the way out is to draft a compromise candidate. President Sherrod Brown, anyone?

218
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:54:11am

re: #217 secretslothbear

As I noted downstairs, that scenario sounds too much like 1852, which ultimately led to disaster (because Pierce was inept in dealing with the big issue of the day.)

219
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:55:07am

re: #210 NO SMOCKING GUN!

I tell you what won’t work. Trying to get Republican votes, Pete’s and Amy’s plan. Republicans LOVE Trump. If you want to write off the youth vote, you might as well has the keys to the WH to Trump for another 4 years.

I don’t write it off so much as express skepticism of an electoral strategy that leans heavily upon it. The fact that youth turnout was up in 2018, in an election where turnout overall was up, is not something upon which I will hang my hat. I would rather focus on growing turnout in blocs that historically vote Dem in large numbers, such as minority voters and women voters, than bet the farm that the kids who are not exactly wowing us in the primaries being the saviors of the republic.

220
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:56:00am

re: #217 secretslothbear

If no one arrives in Milwaukee with 1991 delegates, there’s going to be bad blood whoever wins on the second ballot. It’s a long shot, but maybe the way out is to draft a compromise candidate. President Sherrod Brown, anyone?

Let’s hope we have a nominee on the first ballot, whoever it is.

221
BeachDem  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:56:59am

re: #199 Targetpractice

You say they won’t carve out an exception, then immediately after say it would be a “mistake” if they don’t. It doesn’t matter how much of a lead he has going into the convention, if he can’t pull 1,991 delegates together to win outright, then he either has to find them at the convention or he’s not the nominee. Those are the rules he agreed to, same as Biden or Warren or even Gabbard.

I’m not interested in being sold on a Sanders nomination before he’s actually won the nomination. It is way too fucking early in this whole thing to tell me that it’s all over and I need to welcome my new “progressive” overlord.

And then, in that article is this:

But if Sanders wins, partisan Democrats who just want to beat Trump will magically stop finding Sanders superfans annoying — the causes will be aligned, and the vast majority of people who want Trump out of the White House can collaborate in peace.

There is no way I will ever NOT find Nina, Brie, Serota, Sarandon, Shaun King, etc. annoying. (Also, citing National Review to conservasplain how Democrats feel is not a good look, Matty.)

222
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:57:26am

re: #217 secretslothbear

If no one arrives in Milwaukee with 1991 delegates, there’s going to be bad blood whoever wins on the second ballot. It’s a long shot, but maybe the way out is to draft a compromise candidate. President Sherrod Brown, anyone?

I was thinking we go back to Kamala myself.

Maybe she could get the money once she was the only one on the ballot who could.

I’d also settle for Bennet’s ideology and he’s at least not a Boomer, but I’d rather avoid even just “white guys who literally could have been my babysitter’s boyfriend” and have a double-minority candidate instead.

Brown’s probably about on their level and at least is a Black man, so you may also have a point.

223
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:58:14am

It’s starting to really irk me, that good governance people who would make good national candidates, like O’Rourke, Harris, and Booker, had to drop out because of the lack of money from deep pockets, while vanity candidate rich men like Bloomberg, Steyer, and Yang took over spaces on the debate platforms.

The DNC really messed up.

224
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 8:59:20am

And I blame Biden for part of that, as he vacuumed up institutional Democratic machinery support that otherwise would have supported one of those Senators or former Congressman.

225
BigPapa  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:00:10am

I’m not gonna link, but a Trumperhoid created another meme video of Trump in battle slaughtering brown people and he retweeted it.

226
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:00:43am

re: #224 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

And I blame Biden for part of that, as he vacuumed up institutional Democratic machinery support that otherwise would have supported one of those Senators or former Congressman.

Yeah. I wanted Biden the hell out as soon as it looked like he had even risk factors for senility or dementia. Or for that matter, just hadn’t overcome his “gaffe-machine” problems from the 90s.

227
BeachDem  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:00:49am

re: #202 LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)

Two of the three first states have been caucuses and the other a primary that borders his home state. And if he is the true front runner, he should be reaching out more. He’s going to be the face of a party he’s never formally joined. Maybe his surrogates on and offline could try to be a little less jerky.

And maybe Bernie himself could be a bit less divisive

228
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:01:18am

re: #99 Dave In Austin

[Embedded content]

229
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:01:23am

re: #225 BigPapa

I’m not gonna link, but a Trumperhoid created another meme video of Trump in battle slaughtering brown people and he retweeted it.

Not the one from India, but a full-on other one? On the same day?!?

230
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:02:49am

re: #221 BeachDem

And then, in that article is this:

But if Sanders wins, partisan Democrats who just want to beat Trump will magically stop finding Sanders superfans annoying — the causes will be aligned, and the vast majority of people who want Trump out of the White House can collaborate in peace.

There is no way I will ever NOT find Nina, Brie, Serota, Sarandon, Shaun King, etc. annoying. (Also, citing National Review to conserasplain how Democrats feel is not a good look, Matty.)

Yeah, I doubt I’m ever going to find common ground with Berners, simply because I’m too pragmatic to believe anything he’s selling can happen without a lot of shit going right in November. And I’m already chaffing at the “lie back and think of England” attitude I’m being greeted with when Super Tuesday hasn’t even happened.

231
BigPapa  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:02:55am

re: #229 Chrysicat

Not the one from India, but a full-on other one? On the same day?!?

The one from @Solmemes1

Was there another one?

232
LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:02:59am

Lre: #221 BeachDem

And then, in that article is this:

But if Sanders wins, partisan Democrats who just want to beat Trump will magically stop finding Sanders superfans annoying — the causes will be aligned, and the vast majority of people who want Trump out of the White House can collaborate in peace.

There is no way I will ever NOT find Nina, Brie, Serota, Sarandon, Shaun King, etc. annoying. (Also, citing National Review to conserasplain how Democrats feel is not a good look, Matty.)

Sarandon literally just RTed a primary challenger for Pelosi. Turner and Gray have no regrets about voting Stein. Sirota is a dishonest hack. I’ll vote for Bernie against Trump because I feel Trump is a threat like no other but I’m not going to thrilled about it because I don’t think Sanders people appreciate the people who make up the Democratic coalition that has despite what he says accomplished a lot.

233
LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:04:45am

re: #227 BeachDem

And maybe Bernie himself could be a bit less divisive

[Embedded content]

Yep Bernie himself. The way he snidely dismissed the WaPo as “not friends.” The WaPo is something I still read daily. Some of their columnists are critical of Bernie but others are quite adoring. He has a lot of Trump in him and it’s disappointing that people can’t see that or overlook it.

234
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:05:09am

I think to some extent we overlook the fact that Bernie appeals to a lot of the same “Politics is broken” feeling that works for Trump. In 2016, for that crowd, it was a contest between the consummate insider and what many perceived as a bombthrower. Likely some who voted for Trump simply wanted CHANGE, and are disappointed to have instead elected a poopflinging monkey.

235
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:05:44am

re: #216 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

First off, where are these masses of youth in the 3 contests so far? Turnout has not been spectacular.

But more importantly, once again, to defeat Trump what needs to be done is flipping PA and FL. Do you expect fewer youth to vote for, say Buttigieg or Biden, than for Hillary?

This is what American Presidential politics is about: playing the margins in a few key states.

All we have to do is bring home the voters who went third party, and the African-Americans whose turn out dropped in 2016. Uniting the anti-Trump vote virtually guarantees victory, because Trump won over 100 electoral votes in states with less than half the vote. What would spur third party voting? If Sanders leads in votes and delegates by a big margin, then the superdelegates give the nomination to someone else. Virtually guarantees a Trump reelection, especially if the nominee is the plutocrat Bloomberg.

236
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:07:00am

re: #234 Blind Frog Belly White

I think to some extent we overlook the fact that Bernie appeals to a lot of the same “Politics is broken” feeling that works for Trump. In 2016, for that crowd, it was a contest between the consummate insider and what many perceived as a bombthrower. Likely some who voted for Trump simply wanted CHANGE, and are disappointed to have instead elected a poopflinging monkey.

Which is why there is some logic to appealing to disaffected voters who voted for Trump in 2016 and are now regretting that. The reality being lost on some is that those voters are more reliable and more likely to show up to vote the lard ass out in November than the youth vote that is making a lot of noise but traditionally doesn’t vote in large enough numbers to sway elections.

237
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:09:45am

re: #235 NO SMOCKING GUN!

All we have to do is bring home the voters who went third party, and the African-Americans whose turn out dropped in 2016. Uniting the anti-Trump vote virtually guarantees victory, because Trump won over 100 electoral votes in states with less than half the vote. What would spur third party voting? If Sanders leads in votes and delegates by a big margin, then the superdelegates give the nomination to someone else. Virtually guarantees a Trump reelection, especially if the nominee is the plutocrat Bloomberg.

OK, you just named a scenario that if it happens, proves the 50-State Republic has to end. Superdelegates probably hate Bloomberg almost as much as they do Bernie, and some of them (the ones who aren’t worth 200M or more) probably hate him and fear him more than Bernie because they know that for all time, only self-funding billionaires would be welcome to challenge for the White House.

If he gets their votes, it’s literally by buying them and it’s time to kick the Confederacy out and exile that jerk to it.

238
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:10:00am

Another problem for Bernie, if he’s the nominee, is who will be his running mate.

Second problem (already picked up by the WaPo): down-ticket Democrats who are going to have to distance themselves from Bernie. And many will, in districts in which their prior victory was small and whose electorate still lover Je$u$ (and Bernie hates Je$u$, a fact of which the electorate will be reminded over and over.)

239
William Lewis  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:10:34am

re: #223 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

It’s starting to really irk me, that good governance people who would make good national candidates, like O’Rourke, Harris, and Booker, had to drop out because of the lack of money from deep pockets, while vanity candidate rich men like Bloomberg, Steyer, and Yang took over spaces on the debate platforms.

The DNC really messed up.

It is why I have always wanted public funding ONLY - every candidate gets the same fixed amount; no more or less and can not spend from their own pockets, one national primary in July, candidate registration in June, and both the primary day and the general election day as paid national holidays. Say on Saturdays.

Then we amend to get rid of the EC in favor of popular vote only.

Never get through congress or the current SCOTUS but it’s what I think would help.

240
Sherlock Hound  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:11:50am

re: #47 Eclectic Cyborg

His death will be mourned around the world.

Oh, wait…

In all corners of the world…

241
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:12:40am

re: #238 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Another problem for Bernie, if he’s the nominee, is who will be his running mate.

Second problem (already picked up by the WaPo): down-ticket Democrats who are going to have to distance themselves from Bernie. And many will, in districts in which their prior victory was small and whose electorate still lover Je$u$ (and Bernie hates Je$u$, a fact of which the electorate will be reminded over and over.)

The latter is the shitstorm I most fear, because the response from Bernie and his flying monkeys is not going to be “They’re campaigning to win,” but “THEY ARE PART OF THE ESTABLISHMENT AND THUS MUST BE SHUNNED!” A presidential candidate needs coattails, needs to be able to say that he’ll have the votes in Congress to get the things he’s promising accomplished. If you have a nominee that’s actively fighting against his own party, then the only people who benefit are the opposition.

242
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:13:22am

re: #223 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

It’s starting to really irk me, that good governance people who would make good national candidates, like O’Rourke, Harris, and Booker, had to drop out because of the lack of money from deep pockets, while vanity candidate rich men like Bloomberg, Steyer, and Yang took over spaces on the debate platforms.

The DNC really messed up.

Yeah. I think serious people, such as elected federal officials, cabinet members, and governors should get an automatic debate slot in early going.

243
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:13:23am

re: #149 NO SMOCKING GUN!

But the polling shows that Bernie is leading in Ca and Tx, and that he is the most popular Democrat.

Polling for these primaries is like carbon dating in Alamogordo: the readings are too polluted to be representative of the end results.

Bernie is a matter of faith and there are a lot of people out there who know how to lay on the grift and manipulation.

244
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:14:53am

re: #154 jaunte

India is home to the largest portfolio of Trump real estate projects outside North America.

Taj Mahamoluoments

245
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:14:54am

re: #202 LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)

Two of the three first states have been caucuses and the other a primary that borders his home state. And if he is the true front runner, he should be reaching out more. He’s going to be the face of a party he’s never formally joined. Maybe his surrogates on and offline could try to be a little less jerky.

His vocal supporters, especially on Twitter, appear to not be very party-oriented at all. Along with all that implies about helping other party candidates, etc. etc. If anything, they are deniers of party activity in general (viva le revolution) and probably think the *both sides* equally bad for America. It’s just that the Democrats are the convenient body to be parasitic on since independent 3rd party runs in this country are pretty much DOA.

Which seems to match Bernie Sanders political career as well.

246
Teukka  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:15:06am

In other news:

Sauce: earthobservatory.nasa.gov

247
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:15:10am

re: #241 Targetpractice

The latter is the shitstorm I most fear, because the response from Bernie and his flying monkeys is not going to be “They’re campaigning to win,” but “THEY ARE PART OF THE ESTABLISHMENT AND THUS MUST BE SHUNNED!” A presidential candidate needs coattails, needs to be able to say that he’ll have the votes in Congress to get the things he’s promising accomplished. If you have a nominee that’s actively fighting against his own party, then the only people who benefit are the opposition.

I will point out Trump won by shitting all over the GOP establishment. Then they fell in line.

248
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:17:36am

re: #247 NO SMOCKING GUN!

I will point out Trump won by shitting all over the GOP establishment. Then they fell in line.

You are way overestimating just how many of us are willing to put up with this shit for the next 8 months.

249
LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:17:40am

re: #245 FFL (GOP Delenda Est)

His vocal supporters, especially on Twitter, appear to not be very party-oriented at all. Along with all that implies about helping other party candidates, etc. etc. If anything, they are deniers of party activity in general (viva le revolution) and probably think the *both sides* equally bad for America. It’s just that the Democrats are the convenient body to be parasitic on since independent 3rd party runs in this country are pretty much DOA.

Which seems to match Bernie Sanders political career as well.

My freshman Democratic Congresswoman is just another “Boomer” to them rather than someone whose vote will be vital for Bernie’s legislative agenda.

250
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:18:04am

re: #241 Targetpractice

A presidential candidate needs coattails, needs to be able to say that he’ll have the votes in Congress to get the things he’s promising accomplished. If you have a nominee that’s actively fighting against his own party, then the only people who benefit are the opposition.

The inanity of Bernie still tweeting against the Democratic “establishment” ought to be stressed.

If Bernie is the nominee then he is the establishment.

How self-centered of Bernie, to deny what is the most important fact about a political party, namely, the party exists so people can help each other get elected.

251
Ace Rothstein  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:21:17am

re: #191 LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)

But that’s not what Senator Collins said would happen.

252
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:22:45am

re: #248 Targetpractice

You are way overestimating just how many of us are willing to put up with this shit for the next 8 months.

Forget “next 8 months.” At this point, cobb’s expecting the House and Senate to keep sucking it up even when he semi-inevitably breaks a law in his crusade to remake the country, and fear being primaried in the same way that Trump’s people did, rather than impeaching and convicting.

So they’re expecting us to put up with it for just under 60.

253
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:24:28am

re: #249 LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)

My freshman Democratic Congresswoman is just another “Boomer” to them rather than someone whose vote will be vital for Bernie’s legislative agenda.

Hearing the “OK Boomer” schtick in a community where a lot of them don’t know / realize that I am (technically) a Boomer is mildly annoying*. First world problems, but seeing that label used in a condescending manner as they insult each other is a bit of a disappointment. A bit like how there is a general lack of realizing they are using of gender-based insults since they’re still so culturally prevalent here.

* - I’ve been very tempted to go into “STFU mode” on a few people, but realized that a loud rant would not be a very productive method of making a person realize they were committing etiquette, “lack of tact”, and “ignorance of audience” errors.

254
Ace Rothstein  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:24:36am

For the last fucking time, BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT!

255
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:26:46am

re: #254 Ace Rothstein

For the last fucking time, BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT!

and an lot of his supporters, real and bot, are not either

there are an awful lot of people out there who want to see him nominated but do not want him to win the general…

256
secretslothbear  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:33:28am

re: #255 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

and an lot of his supporters, real and bot, are not either

there are an awful lot of people out there who want to see him nominated but do not want him to win the general…

Though the Kremlin might consider a Sanders presidency the second best outcome.

257
sagehen  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:35:40am

re: #223 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

…while vanity candidate rich men like Bloomberg, Steyer, and Yang took over spaces on the debate platforms.

The DNC really messed up.

I hate to have to keep rehashing this, but…

Bloomberg was 12 years the mayor of a city with 8.5 million people, 12 congressional districts, a GDP that would get it into the G-20, and actual foreign policy and int’l counter-terrorism responsibilities.

The fact that his personal wealth is enough to self-finance, and enables him to pursue a campaign strategy not available to others, doesn’t negate that. Don’t put him in the same category as Steyer or Yang.

258
Disloyal Archangel  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:35:46am
259
plansbandc  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:38:53am

My R “friends” on FB are calling old pointy shouty a commie.

Gosh how surprising. They are bashing the living hell of of Libs. It’s some of the most vile attacking I’ve seen from them yet. This is one dude’s attack on a woman who very slightly defended Bern and brought up the grab ‘em by the pussy quote…

It’s easy to see that you are just an America hating communist. You hate Trump because he builds up America. You also hate us Americans because we support Trump because he is the only president to stand up for what we believe in. You people piss on the graves of every great American that gave their lives so we could all be free. You hate the constitution while at the same time using it however you see fit to further your hypocritical socialist agenda. You people are disgusting and there is no room in a free nation for you freedom haters. You will never take this country over because we will not let you. Even if you win every election there are too many people willing to die for their children and grandchildren, to keep this nation free.

260
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:41:15am

re: #256 secretslothbear

Though the Kremlin might consider a Sanders presidency the second best outcome.

a Trump vs Sanders Presidential election is a win-win for them, yes.

261
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:42:06am

re: #257 sagehen

The fact that his personal wealth is enough to self-finance, and enables him to pursue a campaign strategy not available to others, doesn’t negate that. Don’t put him in the same category as Steyer or Yang.

Ok, so we can have two categories:
1) self-funding rich guys who have held local office;
2) self-funding rich guys who have not held local office.

So Bloomberg is in his own category. Still, he’s setting (or reinforcing) the precedent that the office of President now is only open to the very rich.

262
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:42:45am

re: #257 sagehen

I hate to have to keep rehashing this, but…

Bloomberg was 12 years the mayor of a city with 8.5 million people, 12 congressional districts, a GDP that would get it into the G-20, and actual foreign policy and int’l counter-terrorism responsibilities.

I agree with that and would vote for him if he won the nomination but I really do not want to see the election come down to two old rich white guys from New York.

or two old rich white guys in general…

263
PhillyPretzel  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:43:15am

re: #257 sagehen

Yes. He was mayor of a large city. And that adds up to more experience than DT’s entire staff (business and political). And his war chest is huge. Do not discount Mike.

264
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:43:25am

re: #259 plansbandc

Bernie hates Je$u$.

265
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:43:30am

re: #259 plansbandc

The GOP - empowering white people’s paranoia for over 50 years!!!

266
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:44:45am

re: #259 plansbandc

My R “friends” on FB are calling old pointy shouty a commie.

Gosh how surprising. They are bashing the living hell of of Libs. It’s some of the most vile attacking I’ve seen from them yet. This is one dude’s attack on a woman who very slightly defended Bern and brought up the grab ‘em by the pussy quote…

It’s easy to see that you are just an America hating communist. You hate Trump because he builds up America. You also hate us Americans because we support Trump because he is the only president to stand up for what we believe in. You people piss on the graves of every great American that gave their lives so we could all be free. You hate the constitution while at the same time using it however you see fit to further your hypocritical socialist agenda. You people are disgusting and there is no room in a free nation for you freedom haters. You will never take this country over because we will not let you. Even if you win every election there are too many people willing to die for their children and grandchildren, to keep this nation free.

They’re going to gladly join Border Patrol, or just happily come around to kill us.

We can’t afford to lose the House and we’re nominating the one candidate with the largest reverse-coattails.

And I have no way to arrange for refugee status.

267
plansbandc  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:48:41am

re: #266 Chrysicat

It’s going to get violent. It’s coming.

268
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:48:44am

re: #254 Ace Rothstein

For the last fucking time, BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT!

And yet he has a very good chance of being the Democratic nominee.

269
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:49:32am

re: #205 NO SMOCKING GUN!

People moved by those kind of attacks are already Republicans. Sanders is the candidate best positioned to expand the Democratic electorate by turning out a record youth vote, who are much less religious than older generations.

I remember 1972 all too well when McGovern’s backers counted on a high turnout from the newly franchised 18-21 year olds…who voted 2:1 for Nixon!

270
PhillyPretzel  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:51:38am

re: #269 Joe Bacon 🌹

True. Practically everyone of them voted for Nixon. I still remember seeing the map the next morning. A landslide for Nixon.

271
sagehen  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:51:54am

re: #259 plansbandc

My R “friends” on FB are calling old pointy shouty a commie.

You hate Trump because he builds up America. You also hate us Americans because we support Trump because he is the only president to stand up for what we believe in. You people piss on the graves of every great American that gave their lives so we could all be free.

These R’s have a pretty narrow definition of what constitutes “us Americans” and “we could all be free”.

272
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:52:25am

re: #254 Ace Rothstein

For the last fucking time, BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT!

and DONALD TRUMP was not a Republican either. But he swooped in and took over the entire Republican Party.

273
plansbandc  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:52:33am

re: #271 sagehen

It’s scary.

274
Shropshire Slasher  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:53:54am

re: #263 PhillyPretzel

Yes. He was mayor of a large city. And that adds up to more experience than DT’s entire staff (business and political). And his war chest is huge. Do not discount Mike.

Maybe Mike’s is a bid for the VP slot.

275
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:54:14am

re: #252 Chrysicat

Forget “next 8 months.” At this point, cobb’s expecting the House and Senate to keep sucking it up even when he semi-inevitably breaks a law in his crusade to remake the country, and fear being primaried in the same way that Trump’s people did, rather than impeaching and convicting.

So they’re expecting us to put up with it for just under 60.

Nope, I’m not expecting that. What I expect is that Sanders will work with the Democratic establishment to get something passed, much like Trump adopted mainstream GOP positions. He has a history of that, and he knows how the Senate works.

276
NO SMOCKING GUN!  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:55:28am

re: #269 Joe Bacon 🌹

I remember 1972 all too well when McGovern’s backers counted on a high turnout from the newly franchised 18-21 year olds…who voted 2:1 for Nixon!

Very different nation than in 1972. The white vote was much larger then.

277
BigPapa  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:56:18am

re: #267 plansbandc

It’s going to get violent. It’s coming.

It’s been building for decades. I don’t see any other end to the constant hammering of conspiracy theory, of Limbaugh and Newt and Ailes framing, the Tea Party, now Trumpism. It’s a long simmering cauldron of grievance and rage.

278
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:56:42am

re: #275 NO SMOCKING GUN!

Nope, I’m not expecting that. What I expect is that Sanders will work with the Democratic establishment to get something passed, much like Trump adopted mainstream GOP positions. He has a history of that, and he knows how the Senate works.

Actually, history shows the exact opposite, that he’s a track record of having major legislation he drafted end up flopping because he refused to compromise.

279
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 9:59:42am

re: #272 Hecuba’s daughter

and DONALD TRUMP was not a Republican either. But he swooped in and took over the entire Republican Party.

Everybody was waiting for him to self-destruct and most of them openly hesitated to openly criticize him because they hoped to be in a position to pick his followers.

280
Shropshire Slasher  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:00:02am

re: #264 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Bernie hates Je$u$.

I read that he is a Jewish atheist, which I didn’t know.

281
sagehen  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:00:19am

re: #269 Joe Bacon 🌹

I remember 1972 all too well when McGovern’s backers counted on a high turnout from the newly franchised 18-21 year olds…who voted 2:1 for Nixon!

If I’d been old enough, I’d have voted for him too.

In his first term he proposed, passed and signed EPA and OSHA into existence, plus Title IX and Title X.

282
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:00:50am

re: #275 NO SMOCKING GUN!

Nope, I’m not expecting that. What I expect is that Sanders will work with the Democratic establishment to get something passed, much like Trump adopted mainstream GOP positions. He has a history of that, and he knows how the Senate works.

Sanders can expect the GOP to vehemently oppose anything he supports while at the same time not being able to count on full support from Democrats.

283
mmmirele  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:00:57am

re: #278 Targetpractice

Actually, history shows the exact opposite, that he’s a track record of having major legislation he drafted end up flopping because he refused to compromise.

That was something my brother pointed out. What legislation has Bernie gotten passed, besides post office namings?

284
PhillyPretzel  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:01:11am

re: #281 sagehen

Nixon also gave us the 3 day weekend.

285
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:01:33am

re: #280 Shropshire Slasher

I read that he is a Jewish atheist, which I didn’t know.

Yes, a Jesus-hating, America-hating socialist…

286
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:02:52am

re: #279 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Everybody was waiting for him to self-destruct and most of them openly hesitated to openly criticize him because they hoped to be in a position to pick his followers.

Actually, they DID criticize him. Cruz loudly called him a pathological liar, for example. The National Review dedicated a whole issue to denouncing him.

What they didn’t do was to coalesce around an alternative who could beat him.

287
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:03:13am

re: #285 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Yes, a God-hating, Je$u$-hating, America-hating socialist…

edit…

288
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:05:59am

Also take into consideration that Bernie’s regular go-to when asked how he’d get legislation passed in the face of opposition has been to spin BS about how “millions” will rise up and march in such a way as to scare the opposition into backing down. Now that could be what he really believes or it could be him bullshitting his followers who are every bit as against compromise as MAGAts are. Either way, it’s not a realistic strategy and if he actually does try it the political fallout is gonna be significant.

289
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:08:49am

Most important lesson from 2016, that lots and lots of people have not internalized:

Everything You Know Is Wrong.

290
BigPapa  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:12:29am

This tweet perfectly encapsulates the problem with Bernie. And a bunch of people are ‘come on, you know what he means.’ Exactly, I know what he means.

291
Citizen K  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:22:35am

re: #290 BigPapa

This tweet perfectly encapsulates the problem with Bernie. And a bunch of people are ‘come on, you know what he means.’ Exactly, I know what he means.

[Embedded content]

This kind of shit gives me the same vibes as those who talk about representing the “real people” against the ‘elite”, where the “elite” usually includes civil rights supporters, folks pushing for social services for the poor, LGBTQ groups, etc. Considering the Bernie camp’s antipathy toward “identity politics”….

292
BigPapa  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:22:47am

Bernie’s party registration ambiguity is only one of the problems. The conspiracy theories and anti-establishment populism is too close to Trumpism. The DNC being against him or not wanting him to be the nominee is absolutely no issue with me: it’s not an evil conspiracy.

Start your own fucking party then.

293
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:25:39am

re: #286 Blind Frog Belly White

Actually, they DID criticize him. Cruz loudly called him a pathological liar, for example. The National Review dedicated a whole issue to denouncing him.

What they didn’t do was to coalesce around an alternative who could beat him.

Ted and Marco were responding to personal slights but did not criticize anything else about him.

294
Shropshire Slasher  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:28:40am

re: #289 Blind Frog Belly White

Most important lesson from 2016, that lots and lots of people have not internalized:

Everything You Know Is Wrong.

You don’t know what you don’t know.

295
LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:31:46am

re: #291 Citizen K

This kind of shit gives me the same vibes as those who talk about representing the “real people” against the ‘elite”, where the “elite” usually includes civil rights supporters, folks pushing for social services for the poor, LGBTQ groups, etc. Considering the Bernie camp’s antipathy toward “identity politics”….

It’s gaslighting bullshit. Sanders is on his 5th President since being elected to Congress. If he’s an outsider still, it’s because he can’t get shit done not because he’s a great leader being stifled by the establishment.

296
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:31:47am

Let me start by saying that I’m not a big Bernie fan.

I really liked Harris, but while she could have made a great case for voting against Trump, she didn’t make the same quality of case for voting FOR her.

I liked Booker and Castro, but they also flamed out early.

I really like Warren, but I think she got lost for a bit, trying to be all things to all people. Perhaps she’s found her voice again, which I hope is true because that voice is really the one I want to vote for.

I like Joe Biden - how can you NOT like Joe Biden? He’s Joe Biden, for crissakes! - but there’s a reason he has not ever won the nomination.

But, you know, I’m a Democrat. I was practically BORN a Democrat. I know the Democratic Party isn’t perfect, but it’s by far the better of the two parties. I really liked Hillary Clinton and I really wanted her to be President because she’d have been a Democrat.

There are lots of people out there who distrust both parties, and yeah, you can say they’re low-information, lazy morons who just ‘Both Sides’ everything, but there are a LOT of them. Sure, the percentage of the population who call themselves Republican has shrunk as Trump has taken the party over completely. But the Democratic Party isn’t growing commensurately. Nominating a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat might not be the ticket for picking up independents. I still wish it could be somebody other than Bernie Sanders, but there’s something to be said for NOT being an “Establishment Democrat”, in terms of appealing to people who don’t want to call themselves Democrats.

So I don’t presume to know what will happen if we DO nominate Bernie. And I’m tired of spending all my time worrying and imagining worst case scenarios, because that is the one area where I can be creative.

297
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:32:24am

re: #289 Blind Frog Belly White

Most important lesson from 2016, that lots and lots of people have not internalized:

Everything You Know Is Wrong.

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

/gamer moment

298
sagehen  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:34:16am

re: #297 Targetpractice

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

/gamer moment

THE CAKE IS A LIE!!

299
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:35:21am

re: #293 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Ted and Marco were responding to personal slights but did not criticize anything else about him.

That’s because all the GOP candidates were pretty much all-in on the policies: Anti-immigrant, Anti-LGBT, Anti-Anything-Obama-Did, pro tax cut for the rich.

300
retired cynic  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:36:31am

re: #238 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Another problem for Bernie, if he’s the nominee, is who will be his running mate.

Second problem (already picked up by the WaPo): down-ticket Democrats who are going to have to distance themselves from Bernie. And many will, in districts in which their prior victory was small and whose electorate still lover Je$u$ (and Bernie hates Je$u$, a fact of which the electorate will be reminded over and over.)

The link:
As Bernie Sanders’s momentum builds, down-ballot Democrats move to distance themselves

301
BigPapa  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:37:11am

Some dudebro tried ‘she was a horrible candidate’ the other day. I have no patience for that shit. When you say things like that you might as well yell ‘DONALD TRUMP IS THE BEST PRESIDENT EVER’ because it’s just as stupid.

302
Targetpractice  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:37:54am

re: #298 sagehen

THE CAKE IS A LIE!!

Ave, true to Caesar!

303
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:39:04am

re: #293 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Ted and Marco were responding to personal slights but did not criticize anything else about him.

I believe you’re misremembering.

304
Florida Panhandler  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:39:22am

re: #246 Teukka

In other news:

[Embedded content]

Sauce: earthobservatory.nasa.gov

Trump take cues and orders* from Moscow.

Moscow under Putin has recently gone from Climate Denial to outright celebrating the fact that there is Climate Change occurring, it is irreversible in their view, and it is to be taken economic advantage of. Russia has already started a military and economic infrastructure campaign to strengthen their claims to vast areas of the melting Arctic.

Look for Trump to follow this trail of breadcrumbs soon. Trump-initiated corporate exploitation of the Arctic to the highest bidder/contributor to Trump Inc. will start in earnest if he wins the election.

*orders from Moscow include Putin-directed propaganda funneled through right wing websites, conspiracy orgs, and backchannel con men and loons.

305
Chrysicat  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:39:32am

re: #272 Hecuba’s daughter

and DONALD TRUMP was not a Republican either. But he swooped in and took over the entire Republican Party.

The difference here is that that might owe to “Republicans fall in line”.

Democrats won’t and are likely to try to run against Bernie more than for him in the midterm even if he is somehow able to win the ‘20 general.

Bernie can only secure “OUR REVOLUTION” against counterrevolution by making a totalitarian state and his original supporters know this.

Most of them are fine with it, almost none of the Dem establishment will let it happen without vowing to destroy him instead of falling in.

306
ericblair  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:48:22am

re: #304 Florida Panhandler

Trump take cues and orders* from Moscow.

Moscow under Putin has recently gone from Climate Denial to outright celebrating the fact that there is Climate Change occurring, it is irreversible in their view, and it is to be taken economic advantage of. Russia has already started a military and economic infrastructure campaign to strengthen their claims to vast areas of the melting Arctic.

The Kremlin, up to recently, has been this way. Essentially, they have no industrial strategy except more petrochemical extraction (because the industry is almost perfectly corruptible), and they have dreams of a Northeast Passage for shipping they could charge a pile of money to use, plus more agriculture, plus, yup, more oil drilling.

They have gotten a bit spooked, though, after a fire the size of Belgium went basically unchecked this summer in Siberia, and saw buildings built on permafrost in northern cities literally falling over into the mud. Agriculture isn’t going to work, because habitable land doesn’t mean arable land, and big tracts of rock with a couple of inches of decayed leaves doesn’t grow a lot of wheat.

However, the short term thinking is winning out, because that’s all you get there for anything, and did you know Greta Thunberg is a little know-it-all brat? The only thing that will turn this around is significant widespread social unrest, because that’s what the Kremlin is terrified of.

307
BeachDem  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:49:03am

re: #293 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Ted and Marco were responding to personal slights but did not criticize anything else about him.

Cruz: “I think in terms of a commander in chief, we ought to have someone who isn’t springing out of bed to tweet in a frantic response to the latest polls. I think the American people is looking for a commander in chief who is stable and steady and a calm hand to keep this country safe.”

Cruz: “Maybe it is the case that Donald, there have been multiple media reports about Donald’s business dealings with the mob, with the mafia. Maybe his taxes show those business dealings are a lot more extensive than has been reported”

Cruz: “Donald can’t defend his own record. Whenever you point out what he’s actually said, he just screams, ‘liar.’ He insults you. He attacks you. He makes it personal, and he gets very rattled. He doesn’t like anyone pointing to his actual, substantive record. And I think that’s a sign of weakness.”

Cruz: “This man is a pathological liar. He doesn’t know the difference between truth and lies. He lies — practically every word that comes out of his mouth.”

“I think he’s already an embarrassment,” Rubio said. “People around the world are watching this debate and this campaign and wondering what’s happening here, because the things he says are nonsensical.

Over the course of his presidential bid, Sen. Marco Rubio called Donald Trump a “con man” who was “dangerous” and unqualified to control the nation’s nuclear codes.

“This is the most important government job on the planet. And we’re about to turn over the conservative movement to a person that has no ideas of any substance on the important issues,” Rubio said

Rubio described Trump’s rallies as “frightening, grotesque and disturbing.”

308
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 23, 2020 • 10:59:41am

I have discovered a new (to me) author, Tim Dorsey. He is like Carl Hiaasen on All The Drugs.

309
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 23, 2020 • 11:00:24am

re: #299 FFL (GOP Delenda Est)

That’s because all the GOP candidates were pretty much all-in on the policies: Anti-immigrant, Anti-LGBT, Anti-Anything-Obama-Did, pro tax cut for the rich.

Their main complain was that Trump was too blatant about advertising them to the non-supporters

310
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 23, 2020 • 11:00:53am

re: #305 Chrysicat

The difference here is that that might owe to “Republicans fall in line”.

Democrats won’t and are likely to try to run against Bernie more than for him in the midterm even if he is somehow able to win the ‘20 general.

Bernie can only secure “OUR REVOLUTION” against counterrevolution by making a totalitarian state and his original supporters know this.

Most of them are fine with it, almost none of the Dem establishment will let it happen without vowing to destroy him instead of falling in.

I agree. Jonah Goldberg had a column that a neverish-Trumper friend posted. I refuse to consider anything written by Mr. “Liberal Fascism” but the ending section included a speculation that either Bernie or Bloomberg would remake the party in their image (and Bloomberg presidency as “bureaucratic authoritarianism”). As Will Rogers said almost a century ago, “I’m not a member of any organized political party. I’m a Democrat”; nothing has changed since then.

311
John Hughes  Feb 23, 2020 • 11:14:33am

re: #208 Hecuba’s daughter

Isn’t that how we ended up in Iraq under Bush 43? The intelligence service confirmed “evidence” of WMD.

No, the intelligence service didn’t, that’s why Rumsfeld had to build a whole new fake intelligence service, the Office of Special Plans.

312
retired cynic  Feb 23, 2020 • 11:35:29am

We have entered the Trump Unbound era — and journalists need to step it up.
Margaret Sullivan, WaPo

In this new era, my prescription is less false equivalence, more high-impact language and more willingness to take a stand for democracy.
With Trump unbound, the news media need to change. Yes, radically. The stakes are too high not to.

313
So Cal Greek Hippie  Feb 23, 2020 • 4:43:35pm

re: #281 sagehen

My third grade class voted 27-2 for Nixon in our in class vote

Nixon with his failings at least tried to periodically engage young people and talk football with Hunter Thompson.

Btw fear and loathing on the campaign trail is a really interesting look at 1972 election


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