New From Dirty Loops: “World on Fire”

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OUR NEW EP PHOENIX IS OUT: ffm.to

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@dirtyloops

Drums by Aron Mellergård
Bass by Henrik Linder
Vocal/Keys by Jonah Nilsson
Additional Horns by Patrik Eriksson, Olle HedstrÖm Berg, Mattias Lejdal, and Mats Hermansson

Mixed/Mastered by Simon Petrén
Filmed by Simon Petrén

Management:
Quincy Jones Productions
Adam Fell / Armando Abate
info@quincyjones.com

Booking Agent:
Artist Group International
Michael Arfin
mike.arfin@artistgrp.com

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150 comments
1
Charles Johnson  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:19:40pm

The bass solo is [ chef’s kiss ].

2
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:19:57pm

I don’t know if it has been mentioned already but we’ve now hit a grim milestone:

More than TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND cases…in ONE day.

3
Dread Pirate Ron  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:23:53pm

re: #2 Eclectic Cyborg

And the deaths come four weeks later.

4
Dread Pirate Ron  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:26:07pm

Today’s deaths are from when our 7-day moving average was at 55,000 new cases a day.

5
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:28:45pm

re: #404 PhillyPretzel

::: eye roll :::
DT and his people are going to repeat this stuff up to the time when Joe is sworn in and they will try even after that if they can.

Yeah, but that guy claims to have an MBA “and” a JD, so by appeal to authority and his link to a blog called CitizensFreePress (dot) com which has a blander layout than Drudge Report. Checkmate, Liberal.

A Whois lookup doesn’t give a whole lot of information beyond being created in August 2016.

whois.domaintools.com

6
PhillyPretzel  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:29:56pm

re: #5 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

I will take you at your word because the website wanted to know if I was a robot.

7
Charles Johnson  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:30:24pm
8
thedopefishlives  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:31:10pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Baby Yoda is better than Trump.

9
Dread Pirate Ron  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:32:30pm

re: #6 PhillyPretzel

I will take you at your word because the website wanted to know if I was a robot.

Are you saying you can’t pass a Turing Test?

/

10
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:33:44pm
11
Charles Johnson  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:34:12pm
12
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:34:58pm

re: #5 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

If this is how universities teach you to write in English, I’m glad I never went. I wouldn’t want some college corrupting my writing skills.

If true, whistleblower downloaded 1/3rd of PA votes to a spreadsheet & found over 27,000 thousand IMPOSSIBLE votes with impossible dates.

Doesn’t an article such as “a” go before “whistleblower?” I suppose it could be a mistake, or a mistranslation from a language which doesn’t use articles.

Twenty-seven thousand thousand? Isn’t that twenty-seven million? And what is IQBAL 101?

13
jaunte  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:35:15pm

Trumpcult vs. GOP cage match stat.

14
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:35:16pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

Please proceed, MAGAts.

15
PhillyPretzel  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:35:40pm

re: #9 Dread Pirate Ron

No. I have had a long day. I put up my house number today. Drilling into brick is not easy and I had to unpack a food processor. All of that and I ache from a weather front that is coming through the Delaware Valley.

16
Charles Johnson  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:40:44pm
17
Dread Pirate Ron  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:41:53pm

re: #15 PhillyPretzel

I hope you used a roto hammer at least.

18
thedopefishlives  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:42:30pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Forget? Oh, we all know they didn’t. They’re flushing it down the memory hole because they want to hide the fact that they are, at their core, nothing but craven partisans who desire nothing but power for power’s sake.

19
thedopefishlives  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:43:14pm

That’s the thing that gets me about the GOP. They don’t even desire power in order to rule - they just desire power for no other reason than to have power, and if they can’t have it, they will do everything they can to deprive others of it.

20
PhillyPretzel  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:44:13pm

re: #17 Dread Pirate Ron

All I have is my Black and Decker Drill and a masonry drill bit. It worked.

21
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:44:19pm
22
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:44:20pm

Could we really be lucky enough that the MAGAts would stay home in GA?

23
jaunte  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:46:08pm
24
Dread Pirate Ron  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:50:06pm

Today’s Covid numbers. Nebraska will get added tomorrow about 12:00 PM PST and the graphs will be slightly worse.

25
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:52:57pm

re: #8 thedopefishlives

Baby Yoda is better than Trump.

26
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:53:17pm

re: #24 Dread Pirate Ron

Today’s Covid numbers. Nebraska will get added tomorrow about 12:00 PM PST and the graphs will be slightly worse.

Our numbers have to go through political vetting first.

27
thedopefishlives  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:53:39pm

re: #25 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

*WHACK!*

28
Dread Pirate Ron  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:58:23pm

re: #26 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

Our numbers have to go through political vetting first.

They get it in on time 2-3 times a week.

29
🌹UOJB!  Nov 20, 2020 • 5:58:39pm

My last living aunt passed away a couple hours ago at the age of 98… 😢

30
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:00:14pm
31
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:00:50pm

re: #29 🌹UOJB!

My last living aunt passed away a couple hours ago at the age of 98… 😢

My condolences, Joe.

32
thedopefishlives  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:01:15pm

re: #29 🌹UOJB!

My last living aunt passed away a couple hours ago at the age of 98… 😢

{{{Joe Bacon}}}

My condolences.

33
jaunte  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:02:04pm

re: #29 🌹UOJB!

My condolences, Joe, sorry for your loss.

34
PhillyPretzel  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:02:35pm

re: #29 🌹UOJB!

I am very sorry to hear of your loss.

35
Rightwingconspirator  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:03:35pm

Hair on fire panic time. Look at the far right spike.
dashboard.publichealth.lacounty.gov

Is there a virus expert /epidemiologist in the house? I have this crazy idea about COVID. The idea is that it is seasonal. Not that it goes away in Summer, but that it gets terribly worse in the cold. As if warmth and sunshine hold it back. Which would explain large outdoor events having a minimal impact as compared to even smaller indoor gatherings. Think indoor mega-church vs Sturgis or a protest march. Los Angeles locked early and opened up with very significant restrictions. Still no indoor dining etc.

is it possible this thing really thrives in the cold?

36
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:06:50pm

re: #29 🌹UOJB!

My last living aunt passed away a couple hours ago at the age of 98… 😢

I’m very sorry for your loss.

37
Rightwingconspirator  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:07:11pm

re: #29 🌹UOJB!

My last living aunt passed away a couple hours ago at the age of 98… 😢

Oh man that’s a huge loss, so sorry to hear that.

38
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:09:25pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

Hair on fire panic time. Look at the far right spike.
dashboard.publichealth.lacounty.gov

[Embedded content]

Is there a virus expert /epidemiologist in the house? I have this crazy idea about COVID. The idea is that it is seasonal. Not that it goes away in Summer, but that it gets terribly worse in the cold. As if warmth and sunshine hold it back. Which would explain large outdoor events having a minimal impact as compared to even smaller indoor gatherings. Think indoor mega-church vs Sturgis or a protest march. Los Angeles locked early and opened up with very significant restrictions. Still no indoor dining etc.

is it possible this thing really thrives in the cold?

I’m not an epidemiologist, but I can play one on LGF.

If the virus got worse in the cold, then Brazil wouldn’t be the country behind the USA for horrible numbers of cases.

Moreover, that chart of Los Angeles up there shows the previous peak in the middle of July, known cold month in California /s.

39
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:09:28pm
40
Grunthos the Flatulent  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:10:10pm

re: #8 thedopefishlives

Baby Yoda is better than Trump.

Baba Yaga is better than Trump.

41
jaunte  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:10:25pm
42
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:10:46pm
43
Rightwingconspirator  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:12:22pm

re: #38 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

I’m not an epidemiologist, but I can play one on LGF.

If the virus got worse in the cold, then Brazil wouldn’t be the country behind the USA for horrible numbers of cases.

Moreover, that chart of Los Angeles up there shows the previous peak in the middle of July, known cold month in California /s.

To me the trend looks like summer will be easy by comparison. That WAS the lesser version. I have no idea how Brazil did in the winter gonna go see. IHME.

44
thedopefishlives  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:13:37pm

re: #38 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

I’m not an epidemiologist, but I can play one on LGF.

If the virus got worse in the cold, then Brazil wouldn’t be the country behind the USA for horrible numbers of cases.

Moreover, that chart of Los Angeles up there shows the previous peak in the middle of July, known cold month in California /s.

My sense is that cold weather drives people indoors, which is why cases have been exploding in the northern states, where the weather has been snowy for most of the month and with the majority of said states refusing to close indoor spaces or even limit capacity, it leaves them completely incapable of limiting the spread of the virus among people who refuse to self-isolate but can no longer justify being outdoors.

45
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:13:49pm

JFC, it has come to this now

46
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:14:08pm

re: #41 jaunte

Subpoena followed by inherent contempt if she wants to play dime store Kim Davis.

At some point the Democrats need to quit sending sternly-worded letters like common Susan Collinses and do something to push back against the fascists trying to wreck the election.

47
thedopefishlives  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:14:26pm

re: #44 thedopefishlives

Contrariwise, hot places would see spikes in the summer, when hot weather causes people to seek air conditioning for comfort.

48
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:17:06pm

re: #45 Backwoods_Sleuth

JFC, it has come to this now

It seems very unlikely he is intubated. On oxygen, sure, but intubation is done with sedation.

49
Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:19:25pm

This is the procedure that blows flat earthers to hell and gone, if they only had the brains to understand how it works. It isn’t difficult, though: Many thousands of technicians have been familiar with it for decades. If you use a flat plane as a Schuler reference in an INS/autopilot, you will climb continuously until you stall and crash, since there is no allowance for the Earth curving away below you.

Schuler Tuning

Schuler tuning is a design principle for inertial navigation systems that accounts for the curvature of the Earth. An inertial navigation system, used in submarines, ships, aircraft, and other vehicles to keep track of position, determines directions with respect to three axes pointing “north”, “east”, and “down”. To detect the vehicle’s orientation, the system contains an “inertial platform” mounted on gimbals, with gyroscopes that detect motion connected to a servo system to keep it pointing in a fixed orientation in space. However, the directions “north”, “east” and “down” change as the vehicle moves on the curved surface of the Earth. Schuler tuning describes the conditions necessary for an inertial navigation system to keep the inertial platform always pointing “north”, “east” and “down”, so it gives correct directions on the near-spherical Earth. It is widely used in electronic control systems.

50
Hecuba's daughter  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:20:05pm

re: #29 🌹UOJB!

My last living aunt passed away a couple hours ago at the age of 98… 😢

My deepest sympathy for your loss.

51
IngisKahn  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:24:07pm

bad idea

52
Rightwingconspirator  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:25:47pm

re: #51 IngisKahn

[Embedded content]

53
thecommodore  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:26:49pm

The Silver Spoons kid and the My Pillow guy helped spring a domestic terrorist from jail.

54
Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:28:14pm
55
jaunte  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:28:36pm
56
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:30:28pm
57
makeitstop  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:32:32pm

Michael Steele has seen enough.

58
Charles Johnson  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:33:27pm
59
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:33:40pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

Even here in SoCal, people congregate more inside with each other in the fall.

After Thanksgiving we’re likely to see another peak.

60
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:35:30pm

re: #48 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

It seems very unlikely he is intubated. On oxygen, sure, but intubation is done with sedation.

That’s what I thought.

No matter, the concept is kinda gross.

61
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:36:49pm

re: #51 IngisKahn

Is this for real?

I’m not even up for sticking pieces of glass in my eyes (contacts); there’s no way I’m having angle brackets screwed to my nose.

I’ll stick with tried-and-true spectacles.

62
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:39:11pm

re: #61 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

I’ve never worn glass contacts, but for decades wore soft contacts. Much better than any glasses. These days I’ve reverted to glasses mostly because I don’t want to take the time and hassle with the contacts, but whenever I get my eye surgeries done hopefully I’ll not need either.

63
IngisKahn  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:45:09pm

re: #61 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

I assume it’s an art project. I hope it is…

64
jaunte  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:45:53pm

re: #51 IngisKahn

65
Hecuba's daughter  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:47:54pm

re: #62 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

I’ve never worn glass contacts, but for decades wore soft contacts. Much better than any glasses. These days I’ve reverted to glasses mostly because I don’t want to take the time and hassle with the contacts, but whenever I get my eye surgeries done hopefully I’ll not need either.

I was extremely near sighted and wore hard lenses (which are made of plastic, not glass) for over 40 years. The advantage over soft lenses is that they lasted forever until you needed a new prescription (or broke it when you dropped one and accidentally stepped on it). With the original hard lenses, if you lost one and found it months later, it was as good as new — just needed a rinsing. Later switched to gas-permeable which were also durable (sort of) but needed to be stored in special fluid overnight. I stopped wearing contacts after cataract surgery a few years ago, but still need glasses for distance.

66
Hecuba's daughter  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:53:58pm

At the beginning of the Mourner’s Kaddish services tonight, instead of reading a traditional passage, our rabbi told the congregation that today was the Transgender Day of Remembrance and we mourned the loss of 53 lives in the United States this year, murdered because of who they were. It was a shock to learn that so many had been killed here.

67
The Ghost of a Flea  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:54:21pm
68
🌹UOJB!  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:54:26pm

re: #65 Hecuba’s daughter

I was extremely near sighted and wore hard lenses (which are made of plastic, not glass) for over 40 years. The advantage over soft lenses is that they lasted forever until you needed a new prescription (or broke it when you dropped one and accidentally stepped on it). With the original hard lenses, if you lost one and found it months later, it was as good as new — just needed a rinsing. Later switched to gas-permeable which were also durable (sort of) but needed to be stored in special fluid overnight. I stopped wearing contacts after cataract surgery a few years ago, but still need glasses for distance.

I’ve never been able to wear contact lenses. No matter what was tried there was always pain. Found out that I can’t wear them due to severe astigmatisms in both eyes.

69
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:54:31pm

re: #65 Hecuba’s daughter

I was extremely near sighted and wore hard lenses (which are made of plastic, not glass) for over 40 years. The advantage over soft lenses is that they lasted forever until you needed a new prescription (or broke it when you dropped one and accidentally stepped on it). With the original hard lenses, if you lost one and found it months later, it was as good as new — just needed a rinsing. Later switched to gas-permeable which were also durable (sort of) but needed to be stored in special fluid overnight. I stopped wearing contacts after cataract surgery a few years ago, but still need glasses for distance.

Back in the Eighties my sister tried out soft contacts. She lost one, and found it a few days later stuck to a light bulb on a table lamp. It sort of looked like a burnt corn flake.

I’ve never used contacts. I could never get past the squick factor of sticking my finger in my eye, the Navy is not big on them for reasons regarding fumes, chemicals, and NBC warfare, &c.

I’ve used plastic lens glasses before, but they seem to scratch too easily. I only wear glass lenses.

70
stpaulbear  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:54:43pm

re: #13 jaunte

Trumpcult vs. GOP cage match stat.

Hmm, I don’t have and don’t want a Twitter account, but maybe I should set up a temporary account to reply to comments by Kemp, Purdue and Loeffler for a month or so…

71
Sherlock Hound  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:56:05pm
72
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:56:33pm
73
thedopefishlives  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:57:18pm

re: #72 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

[Embedded content]

So we’re still on the Shanghai Dragons track. They went 0-52, 0-40 in Season 1 and then 0-12 at the beginning of Season 2 before finally winning a game.

74
🌹UOJB!  Nov 20, 2020 • 6:57:44pm

re: #69 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

I used to wear photogray lenses until the last RX cost $750 and the frames weren’t factored in. I had to switch to plastic lenses which are a pain because they scratch!!!!

75
Hecuba's daughter  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:01:24pm

re: #69 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

Back in the Eighties my sister tried out soft contacts. She lost one, and found it a few days later stuck to a light bulb on a table lamp. It sort of looked like a burnt corn flake.

I’ve never used contacts. I could never get past the squick factor of sticking my finger in my eye, the Navy is not big on them for reasons regarding fumes, chemicals, and NBC warfare, &c.

I’ve used plastic lens glasses before, but they seem to scratch too easily. I only wear glass lenses.

When I first started wearing them, it would take 45 minutes to get them into my eyes. My ophthalmologist (who was my father’s first cousin) told my mother he never thought I’d adapt to them because I had so much trouble getting them in. But I was determined.

76
thecommodore  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:02:42pm

I can confirm.

77
stpaulbear  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:03:27pm

re: #39 Backwoods_Sleuth

One month later:

78
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:10:18pm

re: #72 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

Religion poisons everything.

The Amistad Project of the Thomas More Society is the group working alongside President Donald Trump’s campaign to spearhead national and state lawsuits, according to a news release.

The group plans to file lawsuits about election results in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Nevaga [sic], Georgia and Arizona.

“In Michigan, extensive irregularities and illegalities plagued the vote-counting process in Wayne County, affecting more than 300,000 ballots in a state decided by just 150,000 votes,” the organization said in a news release.

So the Catholics at the Thomas More Society jump in to the racist case against African-Americans having the right to vote.

Since the Catholic Church will not condemn these bigots, I can only assume the Church is fine with them.

freep.com

79
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:12:57pm

re: #75 Hecuba’s daughter

When I first started wearing them, it would take 45 minutes to get them into my eye. My ophthalmologist (who was my father’s first cousin) told my mother he never thought I’d adapt to them because I had so much trouble getting them in. But I was determined.

I could probably get them in your eyes more quickly. /s

80
jaunte  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:13:04pm
81
Charles Johnson  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:13:22pm
82
Dread Pirate Ron  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:14:32pm
83
Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:16:07pm

This is dazzling, take a look:

84
stpaulbear  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:16:30pm

re: #57 makeitstop

Michael Steele has seen enough.

[Embedded content]

Michael Steele got hassled by the two hosts of the Lincoln Project on last night’s YouTube post and I think he got hassled again on MSNBC this afternoon. We was trying to stay upbeat on the Lincoln Project but he looked like his kid had been arrested for assault on Deadline. He doesn’t want to face that his whole party is trying to wreck America.

85
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:17:09pm

re: #80 jaunte

Seconded.

I predicted they would try to do this to me when Trump was haranguing about this during the 2016 campaign.

I do not see how an executive order can overturn the law.

86
🌹UOJB!  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:21:44pm

re: #80 jaunte

[Embedded content]

1) Lots of Russians deported?
2) Milo and McInnes deported?
3) Murdoch deported?
4) Steven Miller’s relatives deported?
5) A certain First Lady deported?

87
retired cynic  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:21:45pm

re: #68 🌹UOJB!

I’ve never been able to wear contact lenses. No matter what was tried there was always pain. Found out that I can’t wear them due to severe astigmatisms in both eyes.

I had severe astigmatism in both eyes, to the point where, at age 15, they were so bad they couldn’t grind lenses for my glasses. The tension in the glasses frames would cause them to buckle. So I got early hard lenses. It took a while to get used to them, but outside of one change a year into it in my worst eye, the hard lens stopped the astigmatism from progressing. I wore them for over 50 years, until cataract surgery, when the doc replaced the lens. Since one eye was always worse, he did one for reading (the bad one) and one for distance, and it is perfect! First time in my life I can see!

88
EPR-radar  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:23:12pm

re: #85 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

Seconded.

I predicted they would try to do this to me when Trump was haranguing about this during the 2016 campaign.

I do not see how an executive order can overturn the law.

It’s bullshit for the GOP/Trump base. Anything a Trump EO can do, a Biden EO can undo.

89
🌹UOJB!  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:23:43pm

re: #87 retired cynic

Ever since the age of 8 I had to wear trifocals. Yes the kids used to call me Coke Bottle Eyes because the lenses were so thick…

90
Hecuba's daughter  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:26:41pm

re: #87 retired cynic

I had severe astigmatism in both eyes, to the point where, at age 15, they were so bad they couldn’t grind lenses for my glasses. The tension in the glasses frames would cause them to buckle. So I got early hard lenses. It took a while to get used to them, but outside of one change a year into it in my worst eye, the hard lens stopped the astigmatism from progressing. I wore them for over 50 years, until cataract surgery, when the doc replaced the lens. Since one eye was always worse, he did one for reading (the bad one) and one for distance, and it is perfect! First time in my life I can see!

A lot of people like that — and my contacts were ultimately set up that way, but I hated them. Am much happier now that the lenses for the cataracts are set up so both eyes can see about the same. I don’t mind having to wear glasses for driving.

91
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:28:00pm

re: #80 jaunte

Repealing Birthright Citizenship: The Unintended Consequences (Migration Policy Institute)

TL;DR part:

The reality is this: Repealing birthright citizenship would create a self-perpetuating class that would be excluded from social membership for generations. Working with researchers at Pennsylvania State University, the Migration Policy Institute (MPI) has found that ending birthright citizenship for U.S. babies with two unauthorized immigrant parents would increase the existing unauthorized population by 4.7 million people by 2050. Crucially, 1 million would be the children of two parents who themselves had been born in the United States. Under a scenario denying U.S. citizenship to babies with one parent who is unauthorized, our analysis finds that the unauthorized population would balloon to 24 million in 2050 from the 11 million today.

This last finding alone should give pause. Touted by its supporters as a solution to reduce illegal immigration, repeal in fact would have the completely opposite effect.

92
retired cynic  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:28:14pm

re: #89 🌹UOJB!

Ever since the age of 8 I had to wear trifocals. Yes the kids used to call me Coke Bottle Eyes because the lenses were so thick…

Yep. That’s when I started.

93
jamesfirecat  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:30:52pm

re: #85 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

Seconded.

I predicted they would try to do this to me when Trump was haranguing about this during the 2016 campaign.

I do not see how an executive order can overturn the law.

It’s not a law it’s a constitutional amendment

en.wikipedia.org

Birthright citizenship arises from the first part of the Citizenship Clause introduced by the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution (adopted July 9, 1868), which states:

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside”.

How the f**k do they think they can change that with an Executive Order?

94
🌹UOJB!  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:31:59pm

re: #93 jamesfirecat

It’s not a law it’s a constitutional amendment

en.wikipedia.org)%20a%20US%20citizen.

Birthright citizenship arises from the first part of the Citizenship Clause introduced by the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution (adopted July 9, 1868), which states:

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside”.

How the f**k do they think they can change that with an Executive Order?

They got 6 votes on the corrupted Court now.

95
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:33:24pm

re: #92 retired cynic

Yep. That’s when I started.

I started wearing trifocals this year.

I started wearing bifocals in the early Eighties, when I had difficulty reading tiny symbols on schematic diagrammes when I was in the Navy. (The Navy is not big on making bifocals for some reason, so they had me repeatedly tested over several months before they finally caved and gave me a pair.)

I first started wearing glasses when I was sixteen (it was a long fight to get my grandmother to take me to an eye doctor at all, but suffice to say she thought a brown-eyed person could not have bad eyesight).

96
jamesfirecat  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:34:58pm

re: #94 🌹UOJB!

They got 6 votes on the corrupted Court now.

First, who are they going to find who has been harmed by birthright citizenship to have standing to challenge it?

Then how are they going to claim some fig leaf of a work around? This isn’t like Citizens United where that was a bad take, but a take none the less, this would be Requiring them to read the exact opposite of what it directly states!

They’re not going to undermine our democracy this way, trust me, there are so many better ways to do it sadly…

97
🌹UOJB!  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:36:33pm

re: #96 jamesfirecat

First who are they going to find who has been harmed by the law to challenge it?

I’m sure we will see a good devout Christian volunteer to do that for The Federalist Society!

98
gocart mozart  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:37:27pm
99
jamesfirecat  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:37:28pm

re: #97 🌹UOJB!

I’m sure we will see a good devout Christian volunteer to do that for The Federalist Society!

But literally what will their argument be? This isn’t something where they can claim to be oppressed like with gay’s wanting something and them having to provide them with the service.

How are they going to claim person X being a citizen oppresses/harms them?

They have much better chance of overturning Roe V Wade than they do of overturning birthright citizenship.

100
jaunte  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:39:14pm

Are we ever going to get out of this?

101
thecommodore  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:39:49pm

re: #91 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

Repealing Birthright Citizenship: The Unintended Consequences (Migration Policy Institute)

TL;DR part:

re: #94 🌹UOJB!

They got 6 votes on the corrupted Court now.

“Subject to the jurisdiction thereof” is the operative phrase, which certain right wing cranks believe to mean that anyone born on US soil to parents who are not both US citizens is not a citizen either. This is the “originalist” interpretation. But the 14th amendment was passed to give citizenship to the freed slaves because Dred Scott had declared that they were not and could not be slaves. So how would the two citizen parent pre-req apply to them?

102
jaunte  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:39:54pm
103
retired cynic  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:39:57pm

re: #100 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Are we ever going to get out of this?

We are going to die our way out of it.

104
thecommodore  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:42:45pm

Chris Hayes’ first segment was very good tonight.

How do you govern when half the country is trapped in a disinformation bubble?

106
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:47:54pm

re: #93 jamesfirecat

It’s not a law it’s a constitutional amendment

en.wikipedia.org)%20a%20US%20citizen.

Birthright citizenship arises from the first part of the Citizenship Clause introduced by the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution (adopted July 9, 1868), which states:

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside”.

How the f**k do they think they can change that with an Executive Order?

EO goes to the Supreme Court, and you get a ruling like United States v Wong Kim Ark (1898).

That case determined who could be a citizen under the XIV Amendment (not Chinese people).

The Civil Rights Act of 1866 was the first law which defined a citizen, primarily to deal with enslaved persons freed at the end of the Civil War. It defined jus soli (birthright citizenship) for all, excluding “Indians not taxed” (which also appears in the XIV Amendment now).

Wong Kim Ark was born in San Francisco but left the country while the Chinese Exclusion Act was in force. When he returned, he was denied reëntry. That case went to the Supreme Court, where he was declared not a citizen.

107
EPR-radar  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:50:15pm

re: #99 jamesfirecat

But literally what will their argument be? This isn’t something where they can claim to be oppressed like with gay’s wanting something and them having to provide them with the service.

How are they going to claim person X being a citizen oppresses/harms them?

They have much better chance of overturning Roe V Wade than they do of overturning birthright citizenship.

There is at least one vote on SCOTUS for ending birthright citizenship (Barrett). Legal arguments are irrelevant for sufficiently partisan GOP hacks.

108
jamesfirecat  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:51:23pm

re: #106 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

EO goes to the Supreme Court, and you get a ruling like United States v Wong Kim Ark (1898).

That case determined who could be a citizen under the XIV Amendment (not Chinese people).

The Civil Rights Act of 1866 was the first law which defined a citizen, primarily to deal with enslaved persons freed at the end of the Civil War. It defined jus soli (birthright citizenship) for all, excluding “Indians not taxed” (which also appears in the XIV Amendment now).

Wong Kim Ark was born in San Francisco but left the country while the Chinese Exclusion Act was in force. When he returned, he was denied reëntry. That case went to the Supreme Court, where he was declared not a citizen.

Well that is depressing, but thank you for informing me of it.

109
EPR-radar  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:54:03pm

re: #106 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), was a landmark decision[4] of the US Supreme Court ruling that “a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China”,[5] automatically became a U.S. citizen at birth.[6] This decision established an important precedent in its interpretation of the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution.[7]
Wong Kim Ark, who was born in San Francisco in 1873, had been denied re-entry to the United States after a trip abroad, under a law restricting Chinese immigration and prohibiting immigrants from China from becoming naturalized U.S. citizens. He challenged the government’s refusal to recognize his citizenship, and the Supreme Court ruled in his favor, holding that the citizenship language in the Fourteenth Amendment encompassed the circumstances of his birth and could not be limited in its effect by an act of Congress.[8]

It looks like this case may be one of the good ones.

110
Jebediah, RBG  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:56:34pm

re: #51 IngisKahn

[Embedded content]

oh my gawd that is a awful idea!

111
austin_blue  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:57:20pm

re: #29 🌹UOJB!

My last living aunt passed away a couple hours ago at the age of 98… 😢

If you were close, me sympathies.

And is that kind of longevity common in your family?

112
🌹UOJB!  Nov 20, 2020 • 7:57:43pm

All you need are 5 votes on the court who side with you and they give you a blank check to do anything your corrupted soul desires.

113
🌹UOJB!  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:01:05pm

re: #111 austin_blue

If you were close, me sympathies.

And is that kind of longevity common in your family?

Grandma Bacon lived to 107. Grandma Mitchell lived to 96. Dad lived to 82, Mom lived to 75 and she passed away on her birthday. My oldest sister passed away at 71. My dad’s sister lived to 94. 41 days from now my Medicare starts…

114
Dread Pirate Ron  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:03:06pm
115
makeitstop  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:08:33pm

re: #84 stpaulbear

Michael Steele got hassled by the two hosts of the Lincoln Project on last night’s YouTube post and I think he got hassled again on MSNBC this afternoon. We was trying to stay upbeat on the Lincoln Project but he looked like his kid had been arrested for assault on Deadline. He doesn’t want to face that his whole party is trying to wreck America.

Why would the LP guys bust his chops? He’s a member.

116
IngisKahn  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:08:38pm

devfonts.gafi.dev
Just started using a ligature font…
#feelsweird

117
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:11:31pm

re: #108 jamesfirecat

Well that is depressing, but thank you for informing me of it.

The GOP has been introducing bills every year for decades to redefine what is a “person under the jurisdiction of the United States” to remove birthright citizenship from people born here.

None have ever been voted on.

One exception was Harry Reid, who introduced such a bill in 1993.

Such bills would likely fail if passed in a court, so more recently Republicans have been introducing constitutional amendments in the House or Senate. Former Georgia Governor Nathan Deal, when he was a representative, repeatedly introduced such constitutional amendments (in 2005, 2007, and 2009).

The principle reason Republicans do this is to spin up their base about “illegal immigrants taking your jerbs” so they’ll vote for GOP politicians to cut taxes on the wealthy and remove regulations for capitalists.

It works very well, since they also argue “illegal immigrants are just lazy and come here to soak up welfare.”

118
Dread Pirate Ron  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:12:22pm
119
BigPapa  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:13:04pm
120
EPR-radar  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:13:52pm

re: #106 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

EO goes to the Supreme Court, and you get a ruling like United States v Wong Kim Ark (1898).

That case determined who could be a citizen under the XIV Amendment (not Chinese people).

The Civil Rights Act of 1866 was the first law which defined a citizen, primarily to deal with enslaved persons freed at the end of the Civil War. It defined jus soli (birthright citizenship) for all, excluding “Indians not taxed” (which also appears in the XIV Amendment now).

Wong Kim Ark was born in San Francisco but left the country while the Chinese Exclusion Act was in force. When he returned, he was denied reëntry. That case went to the Supreme Court, where he was declared not a citizen.

FYI, it seems to be the other way around. That SCOTUS ruled in favor of Wong Kim Ark.

121
So Cal Greek Hippie  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:19:10pm

re: #100 jaunte

Man do I hate Sky Harbor Airport

122
IngisKahn  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:19:41pm
123
jaunte  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:21:17pm

Dozens will be in attendance.

124
stpaulbear  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:21:25pm

re: #115 makeitstop

Why would the LP guys bust his chops? He’s a member.

Tara Setmayer and Rick Wilson, the show’s hosts, have both quit the Republican party. Tara only did it a week or so ago, and she made the (very angry) announcement during the show. They were trying to convince Steele that the entire party is indefensible now because none of them will cross Trump, and they are correct.

125
jamesfirecat  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:21:29pm

re: #122 IngisKahn

[Embedded content]

It never actually moves, it just creates the illusion of movement via the color change… or am I going crazy?

126
danarchy  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:24:45pm

re: #125 jamesfirecat

It never actually moves, it just creates the illusion of movement via the color change… or am I going crazy?

the very last dude is definitely moving, not position but limbs

127
EPR-radar  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:24:49pm

re: #124 stpaulbear

Tara Setmayer and Rick Wilson, the show’s hosts, have both quit the Republican party. Tara only did it a week or so ago, and she made the (very angry) announcement during the show. They were trying to convince Steele that the entire party is indefensible now because none of them will cross Trump, and they are correct.

That’s a solid point. If someone is a civilized person they have left the GOP by now (or were never a part of it). Republicans in 2020 are a party of thugs, crooks, liars, degenerates, perverts, cheats and barbarians. None are good people.

128
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:28:14pm

re: #120 EPR-radar

FYI, it seems to be the other way around. That SCOTUS ruled in favor of Wong Kim Ark.

You are correct. The court held an act of Congress could not subvert the meaning of the XIV Amendment.

Congress managed to get around that with the 1924 Immigration Act to exclude all those “undesirable” Slavs, Italians, Chinese, Africans, &c.

129
IngisKahn  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:29:09pm
130
jaunte  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:30:44pm
131
EPR-radar  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:31:12pm

re: #128 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

You are correct. The court held an act of Congress could not subvert the meaning of the XIV Amendment.

Congress managed to get around that with the 1924 Immigration Act to exclude all those “undesirable” Slavs, Italians, Chinese, Africans, &c.

The 1924 immigration act was a disgusting travesty, but it had no direct bearing on 14th amendment birthright citizenship.

132
i(m)p(each)sos  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:31:45pm

re: #129 IngisKahn

[Embedded content]

Welp. So much for sleeping soundly tonight.

133
austin_blue  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:36:08pm

re: #132 i(m)p(each)sos

Welp. So much for sleeping soundly tonight.

I’ll give it a try.

Night all. Sweet scaly dreams.

134
Dr Lizardo  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:37:55pm

re: #123 jaunte

Hopefully, these kooks will choose to show their displeasure by sitting out the upcoming GA Senate run-off elections. 👍

135
stpaulbear  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:39:09pm

re: #127 EPR-radar

That’s a solid point. If someone is a civilized person they have left the GOP by now (or were never a part of it). Republicans are a party of thugs, crooks, liars, degenerates, perverts, cheats and barbarians. None are good people.

I get kind of hot under the collar when they start talking about the good old days of Reagan, Bush and Gingrich, but it’s been pretty enlightening watching Lincoln Project’s YouTube shows. They are fearless (cut-throat) political analysts, and it’s good for now that they’re on the side that hates Trump and everyone who’s with him. The democrats should learn some of their lessons while they can given that they’ll be back to their republican policy positions as soon as the Lincoln Project’s job is done. We do know what they’ve all done in the past…

136
EPR-radar  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:41:29pm

re: #135 stpaulbear

I get kind of hot under the collar when they start talking about the good old days of Reagan, Bush and Gingrich, but it’s been pretty enlightening watching Lincoln Project’s YouTube shows. They are fearless (cut-throat) political analysts, and it’s good for now that they’re on the side that hates Trump and everyone who’s with him. The democrats should learn some of their lessons while they can given that they’ll be back to their republican policy positions as soon as the Lincoln Project’s job is done. We do know what they’ve all done in the past…

Honestly, a protracted GOP civil war between the Trumpists and the LP wing is one of the only plausible ways for this country to get back on track. A united GOP is a malignancy that is exceedingly difficult to deal with.

137
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:44:45pm

re: #130 jaunte

(5:30)

“Axis of Awesome” (an Australian comedy group) shows how to make a pop song with four chords.

Axis of Awesome - 4 Four Chord Song (with song titles)

138
gocart mozart  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:45:41pm
139
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:49:25pm

re: #131 EPR-radar

The 1924 immigration act was a disgusting travesty, but it had no direct bearing on 14th amendment birthright citizenship.

True, it just made it practically impossible for “undesirable” groups to immigrate legally.

Hence my paternal grandparents entering illegally from Danzig just before WW2 broke out in Europe.

140
Ace-o-aces  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:50:56pm

re: #135 stpaulbear

I get kind of hot under the collar when they start talking about the good old days of Reagan, Bush and Gingrich, but it’s been pretty enlightening watching Lincoln Project’s YouTube shows. They are fearless (cut-throat) political analysts, and it’s good for now that they’re on the side that hates Trump and everyone who’s with him. The democrats should learn some of their lessons while they can given that they’ll be back to their republican policy positions as soon as the Lincoln Project’s job is done. We do know what they’ve all done in the past…

I don’t know for sure they are going to be parting ways with the Democrats. There used to be more than a few neo-cons in the Democratic ranks. Really, all they have to do is drop the culture war stuff (which was always just a means to an end for them anyhow) and they’d fit right in with the moderate/neo-liberal wing of the party.

141
🌹UOJB!  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:56:25pm

re: #140 Ace-o-aces

I don’t know for sure they are going to be parting ways with the Democrats. There used to be more than a few neo-cons in the Democratic ranks. Really, all they have to do is drop the culture war stuff (which was always just a means to an end for them anyhow) and they’d fit right in with the moderate/neo-liberal wing of the party.

Yes I remember the cluster of Neo-cons who clung to Scoop Jackson and Daniel Moynihan especially those who were in Social Democrats, USA (Penn Kemble, Jerry Parsh, Josh Muravchik, Paul Feldman, Jeanne Kirkpatrick, Tom Kahn, Jessica Smith) yeah I had to leave Social Democrats USA when Harrington and Howe left to form DSOC (now DSA) and SDUSA went whole hog with Pruneface.

142
William Lewis  Nov 20, 2020 • 8:58:15pm

Just as an aside, it was Mike Harrington’s books that made me a democratic socialist.

143
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Nov 20, 2020 • 9:00:55pm

(Wonkette)

Court strikes down two bans on conversion therapy in southern Florida.

Appeals Court Protects First Amendment Right Of Therapists To Torture LGBTQ Children

Back in June, the United Nations issued a report calling for nations around the world to ban conversion “therapy” for children, owing to the fact that being gay is not a disorder and the fact that the UN generally tends to look down on torturing children.

It is generally unethical for health-care professionals to purport to treat anything that is not a disorder, and they are compelled by the “do no harm” principle not to offer treatments that are recognized as ineffective or purport to achieve unattainable results. For those and other reasons, the Independent Forensic Expert Group of the International Rehabilitation Council for Torture Victims, a group of preeminent international medicolegal specialists from 23 countries, has declared that offering “conversion therapy” is a form of deception, false advertising and fraud.

But this is America and apparently, it’s totes legal to torture children here so long as you claim that it is their religion to be tortured.

In a 2-1 decision today, the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals voided bans on conversion therapy in Boca Raton and South Beach County in Florida on the grounds that they violated the First Amendment. The two votes for were appointed by Trump, with the dissenting vote appointed by Obama, so that’s … not at all surprising.

(more)

144
🌹UOJB!  Nov 20, 2020 • 9:02:08pm

My family goes back 4 generations when Great Grandpa joined the Socialist Party in 1910 after the Republicans made him the fall guy in a scandal. He was the Congressional Postmaster until they set him up to take the fall.

145
🌹UOJB!  Nov 20, 2020 • 9:03:51pm

re: #143 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

Nice to see that Republicans give Christians a blank check to torture LGBTQ kids.

146
stpaulbear  Nov 20, 2020 • 9:06:27pm

re: #140 Ace-o-aces

I don’t know for sure they are going to be parting ways with the Democrats. There used to be more than a few neo-cons in the Democratic ranks. Really, all they have to do is drop the culture war stuff (which was always just a means to an end for them anyhow) and they’d fit right in with the moderate/neo-liberal wing of the party.

I’m not sold that they believe in any kind of progressive social spending policies. I feel like they’d rather have their tax breaks rather than safety nets. That’s just my impression.

147
Hecuba's daughter  Nov 20, 2020 • 9:13:55pm

re: #146 stpaulbear

I’m not sold that they believe in any kind of progressive social spending policies. I feel like they’d rather have their tax breaks rather than safety nets. That’s just my impression.

I am confident that neo-cons like Bill Kristol are only interested in aggressive FP and have no problems with paying for social programs if they can also get money for foreign interventions.

148
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Nov 21, 2020 • 12:56:10am

re: #93 jamesfirecat

It’s not a law it’s a constitutional amendment

en.wikipedia.org

Birthright citizenship arises from the first part of the Citizenship Clause introduced by the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution (adopted July 9, 1868), which states:

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside”.

How the f**k do they think they can change that with an Executive Order?

It also works as red meat for their base. The appearance of doing something about the “illegals” is often enough even if it has no legal basis to stand on.

149
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Nov 21, 2020 • 12:57:17am

re: #99 jamesfirecat

But literally what will their argument be? This isn’t something where they can claim to be oppressed like with gay’s wanting something and them having to provide them with the service.

How are they going to claim person X being a citizen oppresses/harms them?

They have much better chance of overturning Roe V Wade than they do of overturning birthright citizenship.

Person X being a citizen dilutes the value of their vote in elections!
////

150
Jebediah, RBG  Nov 21, 2020 • 8:29:41am

re: #122 IngisKahn

[Embedded content]

I’m supposed to go to work today but now I can’t cuz my brain just got broke.


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