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253 comments
1
Patricia Kayden  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:02:17am
2
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:17:15am

My take on the SCOTUS, they’re not going to burn their “credibility” on trump. There are way too many things to fuck up for Americans; to be sold out to business concerns, for them to risk all that on trump.

3
The Pie Overlord!  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:29:19am
4
🌹UOJB!  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:30:29am

re: #2 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

My take on the SCOTUS, they’re not going to burn their “credibility” on trump. There are way too many things to fuck up for Americans; to be sold out to business concerns, for them to risk all that on trump.

Trump has outlived his usefulness. He did what the Republicans wanted, pack the courts and give lots of welfare to the rich. Now they will throw him off the boat after they put him in a concrete overcoat.

5
Belafon  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:32:08am

re: #4 🌹UOJB!

Trump has outlived his usefulness. He did what the Republicans wanted, pack the courts and give lots of welfare to the rich. Now they will throw him off the boat after they put him in a concrete overcoat.

Especially because he’s now shown he’s willing to turn on them to save himself.

6
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:32:56am

“…In this case, Kazakhstan’s largest city and a Kazakhstani bank seek to recover millions of dollars in stolen funds from those who allegedly helped the culprits launder them,” U.S. District Judge Alison Nathan summarized in a 25-page opinion dismissing only two counts of a six-count complaint. “Felix Sater—the alleged ringleader of the money-laundering operation—along with his associate Daniel Ridloff and several business entities they control, move to dismiss.”

Like Sater, Ridloff was also formerly associated with the Trump Organization.”

“…Sater has been linked to a $30 million Kazakh deal to buy debt in Tri-County Mall, a suburban Cincinnati shopping center, and then sell it at auction to a Chinese-linked company called APIC that paid $45 million in 2013.

Previous reports have said that Sater was sued for allegedly withholding nearly all of that sale money — between $43 million and $45 million, a source says — from those involved in one of the alleged money laundering companies, Triadou, before a settlement in December 2013.”
nydailynews.com

7
lawhawk  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:33:12am
8
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:35:31am

re: #4 🌹UOJB!

***Trump has outlived his usefulness***. He did what the Republicans wanted, pack the courts and give lots of welfare to the rich. Now they will throw him off the boat after they put him in a concrete overcoat.

**Which is why his lawyers are who they are and not real lawyers.
It’s all he can get now

9
Egregious Philbin  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:36:38am

re: #7 lawhawk

Yep, and our idiot governor wasn’t wearing a mask…as usual…sigh

10
LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:38:27am

re: #4 🌹UOJB!

Trump has outlived his usefulness. He did what the Republicans wanted, pack the courts and give lots of welfare to the rich. Now they will throw him off the boat after they put him in a concrete overcoat.

And that’s where the fun will begin. Being a Republican in 2020 is defined only by loyalty to Trump and Trump’s agenda. I think there’s gonna be a ton of infighting in the next few years as they fight to be the most Trumpy yet somehow electable.

11
LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:38:48am

re: #8 dangerman

**Which is why his lawyers are who they are and not real lawyers.
It’s all he can get now

Or sad hacks like Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell.

12
DesertDenizen  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:41:53am

re: #9 Egregious Philbin

Once again he earns the pun on his name. He’s already pissed off the right wingers by permitting mask mandates. What does he think he has to gain by not wearing a mask? I mean, I’ve never read him as quite as stupid as most of our state legislators.

13
Charles Johnson  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:42:17am
14
retired cynic  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:45:00am

Jen Rubin, WaPo: Forget half-baked punditry. Watch a historic shift.

…The media should have a modicum of self-awareness. At the very least, they ought to acknowledge that billions of pixels and months of political chatter did not inform the public; if anything, they misled voters about President Trump’s level of support and wasted the opportunity to inform voters about the variety and seriousness of the challenges we will face in 2021. …
The shift in the quality of the executive branch raises a host of interesting questions:
Can Biden rebuild an executive branch that Trump demoralized and hollowed out?
Can governance based on the best available facts produce results?
Can Biden prove centrist government is alive and well — and can win over voters?
Can Biden seize an opportunity when more Americans are sensitized to issues of racial justice to make significant reforms and create a new spirit of reconciliation?
The incoming Biden administration brings hope to tens of millions of people for a decent human being in the White House, a normal foreign policy (in which allies are respected and despots checked) and a level of competency that may effectively deliver a life-saving vaccine — to name just a few of the potential benefits. But the end of the election also offers us an opportunity to recalibrate and remember that what matters in politics is what happens after the election. Campaigns are a means to an end. Returning to a level of seriousness and focus on the substance of governance is long overdue in media coverage. Thanks to Biden’s substantial win, we now have the opportunity — and the obligation to do just that.

15
Egregious Philbin  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:45:01am

re: #12 DesertDenizen

I used to work with one of his staffers who is handling the Covid response. We used to call her “idiot girl”, she is from a very wealthy family, never ever has had to experience any facet of life that common folk experience, tone deaf to the real world. Just a party hack and suck up. Pretty weird person to boot.

16
Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:45:36am
17
jeffreyw  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:46:31am
18
Patricia Kayden  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:47:17am
19
LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:48:13am

re: #14 retired cynic

Jen Rubin, WaPo: Forget half-baked punditry. Watch a historic shift.

I am just glad that there are writers like Rubin who are loudly saying what needs to be said- Biden fucking won and he fucking won pretty big. Maybe not a landslide but Trump was soundly rejected. His popular vote margin was bigger than about half of the states’ individual populations. If Trump got to brag about his “historical victory” four years ago, I think Biden has the right to do so with the same EV margin and an actual popular vote win in a historical turnout.

20
DesertDenizen  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:49:15am

re: #15 Egregious Philbin

Why am I not surprised? Because of my job I know my state senator and representatives. One is stupid and a thief, one is stupid and mean, and the last is mean and pretends to be stupid for the local rural hicks. They easily won reelection despite directly harming their constituents for personal gain and the gain of the ultra rich. I hate rural Arizona sometimes.

21
thedopefishlives  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:49:44am

re: #18 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

I don’t see why this is so hard to understand. Voter turnout was absolutely historic because Trump is a giant asshole who people either worship or despise. It just so happens that more people despise him than worship him, and in the right places. This election was not about Biden, it was a referendum on the practices and policies of Donald John Trump.

22
Charles Johnson  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:49:49am
23
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:50:28am

re: #11 LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)

Or sad hacks like Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell.

Thems who I meant

24
DesertDenizen  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:51:40am

re: #22 Charles Johnson

Thank all the expat Californians and young non-white folks. Despite the Air Force base, Tucson is deep blue and the Phoenix area seems to be trending that way as it grows even bigger.

25
Interesting Times  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:51:51am

re: #20 DesertDenizen

I hate rural Arizona sometimes.

I’m still trying to figure out why not just Arizona, but all of rural (white) America seems to have developed a case of bad-faith, trolling nihilism and oppositional-defiant disorder. Is it really just fear of America becoming majority PoC, or something else?

26
thedopefishlives  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:51:54am

re: #23 dangerman

Thems who I meant

They’re real lawyers, at least in name (although wasn’t Rudy’s status to practice law not in good standing?) They may be hacks, but they are legitimate and valid legal hacks.

27
Belafon  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:52:00am

re: #18 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

Yes, some people do vote against the other person.

28
Patricia Kayden  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:52:16am

re: #22 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And Georgia!!

29
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:53:15am

They noticed, and they liked it. Don’t believe their pretense now.

30
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:54:02am

re: #18 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

Why?
Do you believe barak obama was running for something?

31
Egregious Philbin  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:54:17am

re: #20 DesertDenizen

I could tell you stories about a former speaker of the house that went on a trip to DC that was meant for employers….Glendale mayor was on it too (he was in the house back then)…morons.

32
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:54:55am
33
DesertDenizen  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:55:04am

re: #25 Interesting Times

I’m still trying to figure out why not just Arizona, but all of rural (white) America seems to have developed a case of bad-faith, trolling nihilism and oppositional-defiant disorder. Is it really just fear of America becoming majority PoC, or something else?

Yes. Despite, or perhaps because, this area is mostly brown, the white transplants are massively racist. It interests me that the town supporting the Army Fort is somehow less racist than the more rural parts of the county. I work for a municipality after ten years at the county and I heard every racial slur imaginable in the course of my job. And these hicks assumed I agreed because I’m a middle aged cis white male.

34
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:55:20am

re: #19 LeftyRambles2413 (HappyWarrior)

I am just glad that there are writers like Rubin who are loudly saying what needs to be said- Biden fucking won and he fucking won pretty big. Maybe not a landslide but Trump was soundly rejected. His popular vote margin was bigger than about half of the states’ individual populations. If Trump got to brag about his “historical victory” four years ago, I think Biden has the right to do so with the same EV margin and an actual popular vote win in a historical turnout.

Trump lost when at the same time most other rs won
A sound rejection of him

35
DesertDenizen  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:55:42am

re: #31 Egregious Philbin

I could tell you stories about a former speaker of the house that went on a trip to DC that was meant for employers….Glendale mayor was on it too (he was in the house back then)…morons.

Gowan?

36
thedopefishlives  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:57:02am

re: #25 Interesting Times

I’m still trying to figure out why not just Arizona, but all of rural (white) America seems to have developed a case of bad-faith, trolling nihilism and oppositional-defiant disorder. Is it really just fear of America becoming majority PoC, or something else?

It’s the culmination of decades of fear-mongering. The right wing fear machine has been slowly increasing the amplitude over the years; every time a new Democratic administration comes to power, they kick it up a notch, then ride that wave to power and use it to do everything they can to prevent another Democratic administration. When their efforts eventually fall short, they turn it up again, and so on and so forth. It helps that their parallel effort to inspire casual racism in their followers has allowed them to increase their rhetoric to match the increase in volume.

37
Chrysicat  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:58:14am
38
DesertDenizen  Nov 30, 2020 • 10:59:02am

re: #36 thedopefishlives

It’s the culmination of decades of fear-mongering. The right wing fear machine has been slowly increasing the amplitude over the years; every time a new Democratic administration comes to power, they kick it up a notch, then ride that wave to power and use it to do everything they can to prevent another Democratic administration. When their efforts eventually fall short, they turn it up again, and so on and so forth. It helps that their parallel effort to inspire casual racism in their followers has allowed them to increase their rhetoric to match the increase in volume.

The transplants are the worst. They move here from Idaho or some such and expect everyone on the border to be white and English speaking. Not that the old timers are much better.

39
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:00:14am

re: #25 Interesting Times

I’m still trying to figure out why not just Arizona, but all of rural (white) America seems to have developed a case of bad-faith, trolling nihilism and oppositional-defiant disorder. Is it really just fear of America becoming majority PoC, or something else?

They want us to recognize their dwindling rural existence while they loudly and actively denigrate and want to disfranchise where most people live. They certainly don’t want to lift a finger to address “city problems”, but we should rescue them from theirs

40
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:01:41am

re: #26 thedopefishlives

They’re real lawyers, at least in name (although wasn’t Rudy’s status to practice law not in good standing?) They may be hacks, but they are legitimate and valid legal hacks.

I know. I wasnt clear in my snark mode
I should have quoted “real”
Or // it

41
thedopefishlives  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:04:21am

re: #38 DesertDenizen

The transplants are the worst. They move here from Idaho or some such and expect everyone on the border to be white and English speaking. Not that the old timers are much better.

Yeah, I was looking more at the problem of rural white America in general, not specific to Arizona necessarily. Here in the heart of the Midwest, people aren’t generally rude enough to be outwardly racist (except in the “I don’t hate Black people, but…” sense), but the basic concepts of racism are accepted and silently agreed with. They’ve been prepped by years of DEMOCRATS ARE COMING FOR YOUR GUNS AND WILL FORCE YOUR WOMEN TO BE RAVISHED BY STRONG BLACK MEN AND HAVE THEIR ABORTIONS AND LET’S NOT FORGET TEH GEYZ to respond instinctively whenever someone utters one of those trigger words.

42
Decatur Deb  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:08:22am

re: #33 DesertDenizen

Yes. Despite, or perhaps because, this area is mostly brown, the white transplants are massively racist. It interests me that the town supporting the Army Fort is somehow less racist than the more rural parts of the county. I work for a municipality after ten years at the county and I heard every racial slur imaginable in the course of my job. And these hicks assumed I agreed because I’m a middle aged cis white male.

For the most part, the military is less racist than the country as a whole. They’ve been integrated longer and their lives depend on it. There are exceptions, in badly-led units.

43
sagehen  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:09:59am

re: #24 DesertDenizen

Thank all the expat Californians and young non-white folks. Despite the Air Force base, Tucson is deep blue and the Phoenix area seems to be trending that way as it grows even bigger.

they helped, as did Cindy McCain. but c’mon.

Biden won Arizona by just over 10,000. The 20,000 Navaho voters supported Biden 96-4. That’s the margin. That’s the entire margin, and then some.

44
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:10:43am

re: #29 jaunte

[Embedded content]

They noticed, and they liked it. Don’t believe their pretense now.

Only because it’s failing.

45
EPR-radar  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:11:45am

re: #16 Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo

That reminds me of the first time I saw photos online of Christian Holy Week celebrations — OMG, the world is full of Ku Klux Klanners.

Of course it’s just that the KKK incorporated that kind of Christian symbolism into its symbolism.

46
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:15:17am

Thread

And video (ish) (page also includes text of oral arguments)

47
piratedan  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:16:18am

re: #24 DesertDenizen

don’t forget the native american vote came out heavily for Biden, something along the lines of 40k votes from the reservations. Those get out the vote drives paid off huge dividends in that Coconino and I believe even Navajo county went blue in the last election.

48
DesertDenizen  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:18:25am

re: #47 piratedan

Funny what happens when you ignore a major populace during a pandemic, and send body bags instead of ppe. They come out on massive force against you.

49
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:18:53am
50
danarchy  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:25:59am

re: #43 sagehen

they helped, as did Cindy McCain. but c’mon.

Biden won Arizona by just over 10,000. The 20,000 Navaho voters supported Biden 96-4. That’s the margin. That’s the entire margin, and then some.

It is interesting to just look at the margin and say it was because of this group or that group, but over 3 and a quarter million people voted in the election in arizona and if the percentage among white voters or latino voters shifted a couple percentage points it would have swamped the entire Navaho vote. Good for them and thank goodness they came out in the numbers they did, but it was a group effort.

51
Decatur Deb  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:27:25am

Daughter2 gleaned from the intertubes:

Mail-in Points Arrive. Auburn Wins Iron Bowl, 276-42.

52
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:28:28am
53
aatharuv  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:28:41am

FCC Chairman Ajit Pai will step down on January 20th.

As he will leave the FCC too, this could allow for a Democratic majority on the FCC sooner than expected.

54
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:30:24am

re: #50 danarchy

It is interesting to just look at the margin and say it was because of this group or that group, but over 3 and a quarter million people voted in the election in arizona and if the percentage among white voters or latino voters shifted a couple percentage points it would have swamped the entire Navaho vote. Good for them and thank goodness they came out in the numbers they did, but it was a group effort.

Once again no one knows who’s vote is counted “last”
It just doesn’t mean anything
The amassed total of individual votes is the only thing that matters

55
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:31:24am

Honestly, not unexpected

56
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:31:52am

re: #50 danarchy

It is interesting to just look at the margin and say it was because of this group or that group, but over 3 and a quarter million people voted in the election in arizona and if the percentage among white voters or latino voters shifted a couple percentage points it would have swamped the entire Navaho vote. Good for them and thank goodness they came out in the numbers they did, but it was a group effort.

Also, don’t forget that the margin in 2016 was a little over 91k for Trump. So, with Biden winning by 10.4k, that’s a swing of over 100k votes. Every vote in Arizona helped.

57
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:34:37am

re: #52 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

[Embedded content]

THIS level of “thinking” is what we’re fighting against

58
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:35:33am

re: #56 KGxvi

Also, don’t forget that the margin in 2016 was a little over 91k for Trump. So, with Biden winning by 10.4k, that’s a swing of over 100k votes. Every vote in Arizona helped.

a 100k vote swing in the margin with about 800k more votes than in 2016

59
Barefoot Grin  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:35:46am

We should never forget all the people drawn from the cities to the coal mines of Appalachia and the Rockies because of all the great new jobs Trump created there. ////

60
Patricia Kayden  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:36:58am

re: #37 Chrysicat

There’s absolutely no way that Bernie would have won. I’m so glad that Biden stepped up to the plate and that Blacks in South Carolina picked him in the primaries. We dodged a bullet since only Biden could win the general. This country just isn’t ready for a socialist president. Sorry Bernie Bros.

61
Barefoot Grin  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:38:07am
62
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:38:26am

re: #60 Patricia Kayden

There’s absolutely no way that Bernie would have won. I’m so glad that Biden stepped up to the plate and that Blacks in South Carolina picked him in the primaries. We dodged a bullet since only Biden could win the general. This country just isn’t ready for a socialist president. Sorry Bernie Bros.

💯! Not a chance in hell. Dodged a bullet, indeed.

Black women saved the republic.

63
Eventual Carrion  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:39:05am

re: #52 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

[Embedded content]

Garbage in, Garbage out

64
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:40:45am

re: #60 Patricia Kayden

There’s absolutely no way that Bernie would have won. I’m so glad that Biden stepped up to the plate and that Blacks in South Carolina picked him in the primaries. We dodged a bullet since only Biden could win the general. This country just isn’t ready for a socialist president. Sorry Bernie Bros.

If it had been Sanders vs Trump, I’d have spent most of this year planning my expatriation.

65
Belafon  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:40:48am

re: #62 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

💯! Not a chance in hell. Dodged a bullet, indeed.

Black women saved the republic.

It was a group effort. // (Yes, mocking this very thread.)

66
Jay C  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:40:57am

re: #55 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

Honestly, not unexpected

[Embedded content]

[I Am Not A Naval Engineer Disclaimer] - but even I had figured this out after the fire hadn’t been contained or extinguished after a day: the cost of an extensive structural rebuild such as BHR was likely to require was probably enough that the Navy thought it worth its while (and well-worth it, I’m sure, to whatever MIC mega-corp would get a possible contract) to just build a new one.

Though of course, the Navy will probably go to great lengths to cover up the REAL reason for Bonhomme Richard’s scrapping: that it was blown up by a secret robot stealth torpedo fired from the Antifa Marine Commando’s secret robot stealth submarine: the ASS Saul Alinsky

67
Hecuba's daughter  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:41:10am

re: #57 dangerman

THIS level of “thinking” what we’re fighting against

[Embedded content]

This is nothing new. The GOP has been producing that map for years — it’s what Trump shows everyone who visits the Oval Office.

68
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:41:20am

re: #60 Patricia Kayden

There’s absolutely no way that Bernie would have won. I’m so glad that Biden stepped up to the plate and that Blacks in South Carolina picked him in the primaries. We dodged a bullet since only Biden could win the general. This country just isn’t ready for a socialist president. Sorry Bernie Bros.

This logic of theirs is tiresome.

If bernie could have won, he would have.
He didnt.
He lost.

69
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:43:54am

re: #68 dangerman

This logic of theirs is tiresome.

If bernie could have won, he would have.
He didnt.
He lost.

I don’t think he would have won if Biden hadn’t got in the race. I think voters would have coalesced around someone else, I’m just not sure who it would have been… if the primary field had thinned out earlier with no Biden and been something like Warren, Harris, Sanders, and Buttigeg, I don’t think Sanders would have had much of a chance in that field.

70
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:45:09am

re: #67 Hecuba’s daughter

This is nothing new. The GOP has been producing that map for years — it’s what Trump shows everyone who visits the Oval Office.

I know that.

But this guy isnt in government
Just a joe (assuming)
he’s bought it hook to sinker and now he’s peddling it

71
Patricia Kayden  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:45:20am
72
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:47:15am

re: #69 KGxvi

I don’t think he would have won if Biden hadn’t got in the race. I think voters would have coalesced around someone else, I’m just not sure who it would have been… if the primary field had thinned out earlier with no Biden and been something like Warren, Harris, Sanders, and Buttigeg, I don’t think Sanders would have had much of a chance in that field.

You can’t ignore and leapfrog over the ds you can’t beat and claim you could vanquish the R opponent, especially a trump

73
Patricia Kayden  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:47:44am

re: #61 Barefoot Grin

74
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:50:39am

re: #66 Jay C

[I Am Not A Naval Engineer Disclaimer] - but even I had figured this out after the fire hadn’t been contained or extinguished after a day: the cost of an extensive structural rebuild such as BHR was likely to require was probably enough that the Navy thought it worth its while (and well-worth it, I’m sure, to whatever MIC mega-corp would get a possible contract) to just build a new one.

As I tweeted at a group of defense journalists while the fire continued to rage on day two “…I may not be a metallurgist, but I remember enough from High School science to know that prolonged exposure to extreme temperature will alter the physical properties of most metals…”

75
Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:51:16am

re: #55 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

Honestly, not unexpected

[Embedded content]

Yikes! Original cost of the Wasp class ships (including Bonhomme Richard) was about $750 million each. Replacement with a new America class ship is estimated at $4 BILLION.

76
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:54:36am

re: #75 Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo

Yikes! Original cost of the Wasp class ships (including Bonhomme Richard) was about $750 million each. Replacement with a new America class ship is estimated at $4 BILLION.

The various technological updates since the mid-90’s covers the vast majority of the price jump

77
Hecuba's daughter  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:55:42am

re: #73 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

Russia is a white supremacist society, probably much worse under Putin.

78
thedopefishlives  Nov 30, 2020 • 11:56:41am

re: #74 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

As I tweeted at a group of defense journalists while the fire continued to rage on day two “…I may not be a metallurgist, but I remember enough from High School science to know that prolonged exposure to extreme temperature will alter the physical properties of most metals…”

Haven’t we learned anything from the 9/11 Twoofers? Fire can’t melt steel!/////

79
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:00:16pm
80
Patricia Kayden  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:02:02pm
81
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:05:19pm

re: #79 jaunte

I suspect there were some eye-openers.

Also: wonder what the briefers thought when their audience asked intelligent questions.

82
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:06:52pm

Me: trying to figure out why thylacines showed up in one of my dreams this morning.

Biden: wondering why intel briefers have startled look on their faces when he reads the material they put before them.

83
Chrysicat  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:08:03pm

re: #60 Patricia Kayden

There’s absolutely no way that Bernie would have won. I’m so glad that Biden stepped up to the plate and that Blacks in South Carolina picked him in the primaries. We dodged a bullet since only Biden could win the general. This country just isn’t ready for a socialist president. Sorry Bernie Bros.

I wasn’t thinking for a second he could.

I was terrified when I said it that the leftists are going to keep repeating it, as well as to take their ball and go home for ‘22 and the ‘24 general.

And while leftism can’t win in most of the US, very few liberals can win if those idiots refuse to show, either. You can get the presidency with conservative crossover, SOMETIMES, but that very word “crossover” kind of guarantees that it only works when running for President.

I was hoping they’d shut up since the biggest deficit between Biden’s performance and a congressional candidate (though at least she still won) was the fault of Ilhan Omar, but no, they’re crowing about all the “conservative Dems” [read: liberals, not leftists] who couldn’t hold onto the lean-R districts they’d flipped in ‘18, instead.

84
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:08:41pm

re: #79 jaunte

Harris: What the actual fuck? Do you believe that crap?

Biden: It’s even worse than I thought.

Harris: You worried?

Biden: Nope. We got this.

85
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:15:19pm

You’re a complete fuck up? You’re a know nothing, incurious buffoon who exists to own the libs? You’re a racist shitheal? You only care about about yourself?

So many. So very many.

86
Egregious Philbin  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:16:04pm

re: #35 DesertDenizen

Yup….one of the dumbest people I’ve ever met…. He and Weirs barged their way onto a junket for employers with the National Guard (denying two employers their spots), of course once they got to DC for free, they spent their time at the NRA HQ begging for dollars, rest of the time they were just drunken frat-boys. I did like telling Gowan that his current speaker Russell Pearce would, in fact get recalled by the voters because he was such a corrupt swine…of course he said it would never happen. Comedy gold.

87
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:19:28pm

re: #81 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

I suspect there were some eye-openers.

Also: wonder what the briefers thought when their audience asked intelligent questions.

is biden getting the one page briefing with all the pictures? //

88
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:21:15pm
89
aatharuv  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:25:02pm

re: #80 Patricia Kayden

It wasn’t always so.

[Embedded content]

Many societies are relatively unracist when minorities are an insignificant group but grow virulently racist when said groups become a significant part of the populace.
Africans, (Edit: many of whom were) international students were a tiny minority in the USSR. African Americans also had the benefit of being oppressed by the enemy, and the Soviet Union wanted to show the world how it was better than America.

90
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:27:10pm
91
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:31:55pm
92
gocart mozart  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:32:20pm
93
Chrysicat  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:33:32pm

re: #91 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

94
Nojay UK  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:40:10pm

re: #76 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

The new Americas are significantly larger than the older LHA/LHD classes at over 45,000 tonnes. They’re super-Panamax, able to transit the upgraded Panama Canal that previously limited the size of their predecessors and indeed most non-nuclear American warships like the Iowa battleships.

The Americas can and will deploy the F-35B giving the USMC strike/CAP capability off its own dedicated decks rather than having to rely on the USN’s tasking priorities for their fleet carriers.

In comparison the French nuclear carrier, the Charles de Gaulle, a full-capability CATOBAR carrier is a little smaller than the America-class ships and there’s only one of them whereas the intention is to build 11 Americas in total.

95
ericblair  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:48:01pm

re: #89 aatharuv

Many societies are relatively unracist when minorities are an insignificant group but grow virulently racist when said groups become a significant part of the populace.
Africans, except for international students were a tiny minority in the USSR. African Americans also had the benefit of being oppressed by the enemy, and the Soviet Union wanted to show the world how it was better than America.

Yep. Black people in Russia are exotics, not minorities, so can be ridiculed and dismissed but aren’t considered a threat. Still, ask a lot of Russians, even liberal Russians, about Black Lives Matter and see what answers you get.

Racism was (and still is) the go-to whataboutery for Russian anti-Americanism: whatabout slavery, Jim Crow? So you got bizarre propaganda pieces by people who knew nothing about (and cared nothing about) American Blacks, showing some complete Stepin Fechit big-lipped grinning caricature not believing how well he got treated in the USSR compared to America.

The minorities that Russia actually persecutes are Muslim central Asians, mostly, who are the bulk of the undocumented workforce and main target of social panics by ethnic Russians. The Muslim population of Russia is growing substantially and the ethnic Russian percentage of the population is shrinking, which makes the panic worse. Orthodox Christianity in Russia is similar to white evangelical Christianity in the US: the majoritarian, social rather than religious majority that the bigots gravitate towards.

96
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:49:34pm
97
DesertDenizen  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:51:07pm

re: #86 Egregious Philbin

And yet despite all that, and the tens of thousands of stolen dollars he had to pay back, he is still my State Senator, and won my county by about 20 points.

98
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:52:36pm

re: #88 jaunte

[Embedded content]

want another ‘first’….?

“Less than two months remain in the Trump administration, and Senate Republicans are doing something not seen in a century — confirming judges and other nominees after their party lost the White House. That norm-breaking rush to get GOP-approved picks through could get tricky, though, if lawmakers continue missing time because of COVID-19,” Roll Call reports.

“With only one exception, post-election confirmations of judges nominated to lifetime appointments by a president whose party has lost the White House hasn’t happened since the election of 1896 when William McKinley was elected and the Senate confirmed Grover Cleveland’s picks.”

“During previous presidential election years, senators have invoked the so-called Thurmond rule, an unwritten agreement named after the late Sen. Strom Thurmond (R-SC) that calls for the chamber to stop approving circuit court nominations in the few months before Election Day.”

the problem with ‘unwritten agreements’ is when only one side respects them

I forget, was Thurmond a D? oh wait, no. it says R-SC. hmmm

99
Florida Panhandler  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:53:45pm

re: #77 Hecuba’s daughter

Russia is a white supremacist society, probably much worse under Putin.

No, Russia is specifically a Russian-supremacist society where the “Russian Soul” and Russian identity in general is considered transcendent and exceptional. In fact, Russians are taught to look down on other “white” ethnicities as identity politics is a crucial platform under Putin’s regime.

100
A Cranky One  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:55:26pm

101
Barefoot Grin  Nov 30, 2020 • 12:56:56pm

re: #99 Florida Panhandler

No, Russia is specifically a Russian-supremacist society where the “Russian Soul” and Russian identity in general is considered transcendent and exceptional. In fact, Russians are taught to look down on other “white” ethnicities as identity politics is a crucial platform under Putin’s regime.

I think this gets overlooked when some of us think about Putin’s goals (in terms of geostrategy).

102
ericblair  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:01:56pm

re: #101 Barefoot Grin

I think this gets overlooked when some of us think about Putin’s goals (in terms of geostrategy).

In Europe, generally. If you see pro-Brexit Brits screaming about Polish plumbers, that’s ethnic bigotry too. It’s just targeted at different people.

Putin is a statist, at heart: he believes in the primacy of the Russian state more than any Russian people (basically because he is the State). So there are significant ethic supremacist/neo-Nazi movements in Russia, but Putin tries to keep a lid on it. Not because he’s against racism, since he doesn’t appear to give a shit, but he correctly realizes that having an independent fascist movement is a threat to his own power base.

103
lawhawk  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:03:00pm

Fucking goddamned Nazis and know nothing GOPers who ignore the pandemic, refuse to face facts and reality, and by their actions put those who heal in harm’s way.

read the whole thing (a tweet thread).

104
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:03:45pm

Fucking hell.

105
Citizen K  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:04:44pm

re: #83 Chrysicat

I wasn’t thinking for a second he could.

I was terrified when I said it that the leftists are going to keep repeating it, as well as to take their ball and go home for ‘22 and the ‘24 general.

And while leftism can’t win in most of the US, very few liberals can win if those idiots refuse to show, either. You can get the presidency with conservative crossover, SOMETIMES, but that very word “crossover” kind of guarantees that it only works when running for President.

I was hoping they’d shut up since the biggest deficit between Biden’s performance and a congressional candidate (though at least she still won) was the fault of Ilhan Omar, but no, they’re crowing about all the “conservative Dems” [read: liberals, not leftists] who couldn’t hold onto the lean-R districts they’d flipped in ‘18, instead.

Rose Twitter and Berniacs are basically making it clearer than ever before that they consider the Dem party their real enemy first and foremost, and they’ll turn around and claim that Liberals are the ones that hate Progressives so much that they’ll love all the conservatives just to spite leftists. You know…ignoring the embrace of fucking morons like Rogan and the like who actively shit on any progress just because he likes weed and gave some lip service to Bernie before embracing his Trump vote per fucking usual.

106
Belafon  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:06:02pm

re: #104 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

Fucking hell.

[Embedded content]

“Thou shalt not steal.”

107
DodgerFan1988  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:07:39pm

I can already hear the Right: “The Plandemic is a Leftist plot against masculinity, and to turn men into femboys and soyboys.”

108
Belafon  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:09:18pm

re: #107 DodgerFan1988

[Embedded content]

I can already hear the Right: “The Plandemic is a Leftist plot against masculinity, and to turn men into femboys and soyboys.”

“Soon, every man will consider the feeling of others.”

109
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:09:47pm

re: #103 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Fucking goddamned Nazis and know nothing GOPers who ignore the pandemic, refuse to face facts and reality, and by their actions put those who heal in harm’s way.

read the whole thing (a tweet thread).

imo this is the key moment right here ‘don’t let me die, doc’:

i will ignore the advice and the rules
i will fuck up my life and those around me
i will hate whoever i want and be proud of it

and if i’m facing death it’s your responsibility to save me

after which, when i find out who you are, i will still likely fucking hate you

110
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:12:24pm
111
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:14:21pm

re: #103 lawhawk

Here’s a virus spreader for your block list.

112
Barefoot Grin  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:14:56pm

re: #103 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Fucking goddamned Nazis and know nothing GOPers who ignore the pandemic, refuse to face facts and reality, and by their actions put those who heal in harm’s way.

read the whole thing (a tweet thread).

And like moths to a flame, the shitheads and deniers show up in the comments.

This is what’s going on down the road from me. Looking at comments, it’s clear that this is a planned operation rolling out across the country and must be financed by some deep pockets.

113
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:15:31pm
114
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:16:40pm

RIP, Ben Bova.

115
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:18:21pm

Speaking of the pandemic, retail has taken a hit for sure, and of course the already dying mall scene is affected.

Dan Bell’s latest is an example (front of the video is loaded with VPN adverts, but the meat of this episode starts around three and half minutes in):

DEAD MALL SERIES PANDEMIC EDITION : GREAT NORTHERN MALL : CLAY, NY

..

116
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:20:04pm

re: #29 jaunte

I’m glad they’re figuring it out now, but how did they not notice over the past four years that this is the way Trump has always been?

They are scrambling to find excuses.

They might have disliked his style but had no problem with his policies.

117
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:21:44pm

re: #103 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Fucking goddamned Nazis and know nothing GOPers who ignore the pandemic, refuse to face facts and reality, and by their actions put those who heal in harm’s way.

read the whole thing (a tweet thread).

p.s., when the mantras fail

this is just a little like the last couple of miles of a particularly grueling marathon or ultra.
(no of course it’s not the same, certainly not the same consequences - just my frame of reference).

all the training, planning, practice for this moment of doubt fueled by agony.
hope is draining, hell, it’s long gone.
fatigue, exhaustion (mental and physical), and oh the intense unrelenting pain.
and that mantra you’ve chanted to yourself for months is suddenly meaningless and worth shit.

now you dig deep and look for your true mantra.
you look for the spark, the core, the essence of who you are.
and you move forward.
we don’t need to quit. We “want” to quit, to be at ease.

When you get here, learn to rest, not to quit.
There is no quitting. What we came for is moving forward.
It is everything.

118
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:21:48pm

re: #46 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

The Supreme Court sounded skeptical during oral arguments that President Trump could exclude people living in the U.S. illegally from the 2020 census. The once-a-decade population count is used to allot seats in the House of Representatives.

How about counting illegals as 3/5th?

/

119
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:22:44pm

re: #106 Belafon

“Thou shalt not steal.”

something something false witness?

120
(((Archangel1)))  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:24:10pm

Don’t decorate a palm tree. Never seen one decorated that wasn’t a sea of laughs and embarrassments…

121
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:24:17pm

re: #77 Hecuba’s daughter

Russia is a white supremacist society, probably much worse under Putin.

And a theocratic one at that, he has let the Orthodox Church become the official voice of “Public Decency” (homophobia, patriarchy and xenophobia)

122
Jay C  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:26:14pm

re: #120 (((Archangel1)))

Never decorate a palm tree. Never seen one decorated that wasn’t a sea of laughs and embarrassments…

[Embedded content]

LOL
Is that the variety of tree known as the “Rosy Palm”??

123
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:26:19pm

re: #112 Barefoot Grin

And like moths to a flame, the shitheads and deniers show up in the comments.

This is what’s going on down the road from me. Looking at comments, it’s clear that this is a planned operation rolling out across the country and must be financed by some deep pockets.

[Embedded content]

however Covid-19 WILL cause injury and death

124
Eventual Carrion  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:27:30pm

re: #104 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

Fucking hell.

[Embedded content]

The lord uses the good ones
and the bad ones use the lord
- Michael Stanley

125
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:28:27pm

re: #120 (((Archangel1)))

Don’t decorate a palm tree. Never seen one decorated that wasn’t a sea of laughs and embarrassments…

[Embedded content]

I always liked the one from the Corona commercial

Corona Extra Christmas commercial | Corona Extra Feliz Navidad

126
Citizen K  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:28:47pm

re: #122 Jay C

LOL
Is that the variety of tree known as the “Rosy Palm”??

Could be worse, could be one of those Hairy Palms you keep hearing about. I hear those are even more self-indulgent.

127
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:29:05pm
128
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:29:43pm

re: #46 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

This has always seemed destined to fail miserably.

129
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:31:40pm
130
Citizen K  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:32:28pm
131
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:36:18pm

trump is trying to get 450 miles of new wall construction built during his term.

450 by itself is pathetic based on his 2016 boasts let alone ‘i know construction’

forget for the moment the lack of planning, environmental impact studies, and all the eminent domain lawsuits

it’s worse in that only 25 miles of that 450 is in areas that previously had no barrier.. and some of those 25 miles are in areas that absolutely did not need a wall because no one ever crossed there due to the natural terrain barriers and obstacles.

the rest of the 425 already had fences, crumbling walls or vehicle barriers

4 years. 25 miles.

loser

but surely, they skimmed a lot of the $

132
danarchy  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:41:40pm

re: #110 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

[Embedded content]

They call it a monolith, I call it a piece of sheet metal stuck in the ground incredibly easy to copycat. I expect to see many more, and then I expect Ancient Aliens to do an episode about them sure to mention ley lines or some such BS.

133
sagehen  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:42:13pm

re: #98 dangerman

I forget, was Thurmond a D? oh wait, no. it says R-SC. hmmm

Depends what year you’re looking at….

134
lawhawk  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:44:17pm

re: #131 dangerman

trump is trying to get 450 miles of new wall construction built during his term.

450 by itself is pathetic based on his 2016 boasts let alone ‘i know construction’

forget for the moment the lack of planning, environmental impact studies, and all the eminent domain lawsuits

it’s worse in that only 25 miles of that 450 is in areas that previously had no barrier.. and some of those 25 miles are in areas that absolutely did not need a wall because no one ever crossed there due to the natural terrain barriers and obstacles.

the rest of the 425 already had fences, crumbling walls or vehicle barriers

4 years. 25 miles.

loser

but surely, they skimmed a lot of the $

Trump’s trying to conflate new wall and rebuilding existing barriers. For starters, the new barrier is no more effective at stopping people than the old one as witnessed by the ease with which one can scale, cut, or go under the barriers.

It’s all about appearances, and the new wall is an ugly scar on the landscape that does nothing to address all those who overstay visas - about half of the undocumented persons status issues.

The barrier was built by illegally taking funds appropriated for other purposes and left the military with billions less at its disposal for infrastructure repairs.

But to build 25 miles in four years? That’s pathetic.

Crossings were down in 2020 because of the pandemic - coming to the US was far more dangerous than what was going on in Mexico or Latin America.

And October 2020 was the highest number of crossings in more than a year.

135
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:44:20pm

The numbers we’re going to see soon will be stunning.

136
Belafon  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:46:11pm

re: #114 jaunte

Yesterday, the Sun was claiming that David Prowse died from Covid-19, but I didn’t see any other source at the time to back it up.

137
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:47:48pm

re: #132 danarchy

They call it a monolith, I call it a piece of sheet metal stuck in the ground incredibly easy to copycat. I expect to see many more, and then I expect Ancient Aliens to do an episode about them sure to mention ley lines or some such BS.

138
William Lewis  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:48:26pm

re: #136 Belafon

Yesterday, the Sun was claiming that David Prowse died from Covid-19, but I didn’t see any other source at the time to back it up.

I have seen “complications from covid” and that he was suffering from Alzheimer’s in the obit at tor.com.

139
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:49:43pm

re: #133 sagehen

Depends what year you’re looking at….

he was an R in ‘68 - about when the unwritten rule was used (by him)

140
IngisKahn  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:50:31pm

141
danarchy  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:51:14pm

re: #138 William Lewis

I have seen “complications from covid” and that he was suffering from Alzheimer’s in the obit at tor.com.

I saw it on one of the news Channels and Mark Hammil tweeted about it:

Edit: Nevermind, you are specifically referring to cause of death, got it.

142
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:55:10pm
143
retired cynic  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:56:28pm

The United States Congress Is Set to Do Something…Good and Useful? On a Bipartisan Basis?
The legislature is set to tackle money laundering. Donald Trump has, of course, issued a veto threat, though he says it’s about keeping Confederate names on military bases.
by Charlie Pierce

Worth a read, if you can! This is included in the defense authorization bill, and Pierce wonders if THIS is the real reason Trump wants to veto the bill. Wonder if they could over-ride his veto?

144
Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo  Nov 30, 2020 • 1:59:37pm

re: #110 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

>[Embedded content]

It occurred to me that it might be the same one. The Utah “monolith” disappeared over the weekend.
How cool a prank would that be?

145
William Lewis  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:05:42pm

For the science fiction fans here, 2020 has claimed another one: Ben Bova has died, age 88. He is perhaps best remembered as the editor of Analog after the long run of John W Campbell.

146
Eric The Fruit Bat  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:06:29pm

re: #137 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

Kudos to Southwest’s online mediabees for this.

147
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:07:46pm

re: #143 retired cynic

The United States Congress Is Set to Do Something…Good and Useful? On a Bipartisan Basis?
The legislature is set to tackle money laundering. Donald Trump has, of course, issued a veto threat, though he says it’s about keeping Confederate names on military bases.
by Charlie Pierce

Worth a read, if you can! This is included in the defense authorization bill, and Pierce wonders if THIS is the real reason Trump wants to veto the bill. Wonder if they could over-ride his veto?

It passed both Houses with veto proof majorities - 295-125 in the House and 86-14 in the Senate. Trump has previously caved any time a bill was passed with veto proof majorities (remember at the dawn of time when he signed the bill on Russian sanctions?), so maybe he will back down if whatever comes out of the conference gets veto proof majorities again. Then again, he might figure he has nothing to lose and goes into full “watch the world burn” mode?

148
(((Archangel1)))  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:08:28pm

Because you don’t translate and edit a few billion documents across multiple languages without developing the occasional linguistic pet peeve… ;)

149
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:10:48pm

re: #148 (((Archangel1)))

Because you don’t translate and edit a few billion documents across multiple languages without developing the occasional linguistic pet peeve… ;)

[Embedded content]

Isn’t it whom?

(ducks)

150
Eventual Carrion  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:11:08pm

re: #144 Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo

[Embedded content]

>[Embedded content]

It occurred to me that it might be the same one. The Utah “monolith” disappeared over the weekend.
How cool a prank would that be?

I’m not saying it’s aliens, but …

151
lawhawk  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:12:03pm

re: #149 KGxvi

Isn’t it whom?

(ducks)

Point of order.

Guys aren’t moving from NJ to Brooklyn. It’s the other way (as one of those people).

152
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:12:09pm

re: #149 KGxvi

No.

153
Belafon  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:12:27pm

re: #148 (((Archangel1)))

Because you don’t translate and edit a few billion documents across multiple languages and not develop the occasional linguistic pet peeve… ;)

[Embedded content]

Like using “…” when you should use “:”. Or maybe not. Or whatever.

154
Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:14:59pm

re: #144 Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo

[Embedded content]

>[Embedded content]

It occurred to me that it might be the same one. The Utah “monolith” disappeared over the weekend.
How cool a prank would that be?

Alas, it is apparently not the same one but an inferior copy (note visible buff marks). We’ll probably start seeing them pop up all over the world. On the other hand, if the Chang lander finds one on the Moon (as suggested by a commenter) I will recant everything I have said about Ufools over the last 30 years.

155
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:19:32pm

Re: David Prowse

Not sure it if it was Covid, but he has had ongoing health issues for years now so I’d say it was more likely natural causes.

156
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:25:42pm

re: #151 lawhawk

Point of order.

Guys aren’t moving from NJ to Brooklyn. It’s the other way (as one of those people).

ok, so is it lawwho or lawwhom?

157
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:27:00pm

re: #154 Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo

Alas, it is apparently not the same one but an inferior copy (note visible buff marks). We’ll probably start seeing them pop up all over the world. On the other hand, if the Chang lander finds one on the Moon (as suggested by a commenter) I will recant everything I have said about Ufools over the last 30 years.

nope
that they would turn out to be ‘right’ doesn’t mean they were correct in how they arrived at their conclusions.
otherwise it’s just darts

158
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:28:01pm

This may cheer you up:

Asteroid Impact: What Are Our Chances?

..

159
lawhawk  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:28:49pm

re: #156 dangerman

ok, so is it lawwho or lawwhom?

It depends. ;)

160
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:28:51pm

re: #156 dangerman

ok, so is it lawwho or lawwhom?

Law for whom.

161
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:32:48pm

re: #144 Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo

Has it been checked for Widmanstätten patterns?

162
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:33:07pm
163
Charles Johnson  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:34:09pm
164
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:39:56pm
165
thedopefishlives  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:40:15pm

re: #163 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Oh geez. Well, that explains a lot. I was wondering where they found her. I should’ve known it would be “under a far-right crackpot rock”.

166
A Cranky One  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:43:03pm

167
Patricia Kayden  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:43:15pm
168
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:46:41pm
169
jamesfirecat  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:47:28pm

re: #168 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Time for state crimes, and to ask him questions he can no longer take the 5th on…

170
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:47:30pm

“any and all possible offenses arising from the facts set forth … or that might arise, or be charged, claimed or asserted

How is that legal?

171
Patricia Kayden  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:47:37pm

re: #168 jaunte

I hope that is challenged. Sounds a little far reaching.

172
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:48:13pm

I thought a pardon had to specify a crime.

173
jamesfirecat  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:48:23pm

re: #170 jaunte

“any and all possible offenses arising from the facts set forth … or that might arise, or be charged, claimed or asserted

How is that legal?

I don’t see how the pardon Nixon’s got from Ford was any more far reaching than this one is honestly…

re: #172 jaunte

I thought a pardon had to specify a crime.

No they don’t, once again see Ford’s pardon of Nixon…
fordlibrarymuseum.gov

“Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974.”

174
lawhawk  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:51:28pm

re: #170 jaunte

“any and all possible offenses arising from the facts set forth … or that might arise, or be charged, claimed or asserted

How is that legal?

Presidential pardon powers are unlimited. He can do this. The problem is as Barr asserted at his confirmation hearing that to give Flynn a pardon would be furthering Trump’s crime - the coverup of said crimes. This opens the door to prosecuting them on those grounds. The coverup is a fresh set of crimes. The pardon was coordinated with Flynn and his criminal conduct to cover up Trump’s ongoing malfeasance.

175
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:55:13pm

re: #174 lawhawk

Presidential pardon powers are unlimited.

Yet another problem with the Constitution, a document increasingly archaic.

176
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:56:14pm

re: #167 Patricia Kayden

Great!

Now let’s take it from them and put it in a cage and see how they feel about it.

177
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:56:57pm

re: #173 jamesfirecat

I don’t see how the pardon Nixon’s got from Ford was any more far reaching than this one is honestly…

No they don’t, once again see Ford’s pardon of Nixon…
fordlibrarymuseum.gov

“Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974.”

regarding the open ended and non specificity of nixon’s pardon
the thing about nixon’s pardon
the only thing
is that no one challenged it

that doesnt make it law, binding, precedent, inviolable or anything else

178
Jack Burton  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:58:08pm

re: #174 lawhawk

Presidential pardon powers are unlimited. He can do this. The problem is as Barr asserted at his confirmation hearing that to give Flynn a pardon would be furthering Trump’s crime - the coverup of said crimes. This opens the door to prosecuting them on those grounds. The coverup is a fresh set of crimes. The pardon was coordinated with Flynn and his criminal conduct to cover up Trump’s ongoing malfeasance.

Glenn Kirschner seems to think this isn’t the case and that if a pardon was issued corruptly in the first place they can be challenged. Even Barr seems to think that FFVCS can be charged with obstruction of justice for doing so after the fact.

179
Jebediah, RBG  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:59:20pm

re: #148 (((Archangel1)))

Because you don’t translate and edit a few billion documents across multiple languages without developing the occasional linguistic pet peeve… ;)

[Embedded content]

No, he had it right. The beard moved to Brooklyn. The guy still lives in NJ.

180
Belafon  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:59:42pm

re: #178 Jack Burton

Glenn Kirschner seems to think this isn’t the case and that if a pardon was issued corruptly in the first place they can be challenged. Even Barr seems to think that FFVCS can be charged with obstruction of justice for doing so after the fact.

It’s going to require someone to challenge it.

181
lawhawk  Nov 30, 2020 • 2:59:47pm

re: #177 dangerman

Who has the power to even litigate the claim. In other words, who has standing?

We’ve seen the problem with this in trying to enforce the Emoluments Clause against Trump despite him openly profiting from it every trip to one of his businesses at taxpayer expense? Congress can’t? Individuals? States? Who exactly would have standing?

That’s not clear, because no one ever thought you’d have someone as boldly corrupt and criminal as Trump to pursue this line of criminality, let alone do so with the complicity of the entire political party backing him.

182
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:03:46pm

re: #175 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Yet another problem with the Constitution, a document increasingly archaic.

Not really. The idea behind the pardon power being invested in one person is that it can be used to right the wrongs of the judicial system (think wrongful conviction or someone being railroaded or a false confession under duress). A lot of states require agreement by the supreme court (or at least CJ) or the AG and that makes it harder to correct things when the system goes very wrong.

Yes, it can be used for corrupt purposes, but it is ultimately meant to be a check on the court system and an overzealous prosecution.

183
danarchy  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:05:17pm

re: #181 lawhawk

Who has the power to even litigate the claim. In other words, who has standing?

We’ve seen the problem with this in trying to enforce the Emoluments Clause against Trump despite him openly profiting from it every trip to one of his businesses at taxpayer expense? Congress can’t? Individuals? States? Who exactly would have standing?

That’s not clear, because no one ever thought you’d have someone as boldly corrupt and criminal as Trump to pursue this line of criminality, let alone do so with the complicity of the entire political party backing him.

Would the golf trips be included in the emoluments clause? It seems to specifically mention foreign states and monarchies. Seems to me the whole golf thing is just garden variety graft.

184
Eventual Carrion  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:05:46pm

re: #154 Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo

Alas, it is apparently not the same one but an inferior copy (note visible buff marks). We’ll probably start seeing them pop up all over the world. On the other hand, if the Chang lander finds one on the Moon (as suggested by a commenter) I will recant everything I have said about Ufools over the last 30 years.

I want them to start showing up in the center of crop circles.

185
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:06:18pm

re: #181 lawhawk

Who has the power to even litigate the claim. In other words, who has standing?

We’ve seen the problem with this in trying to enforce the Emoluments Clause against Trump despite him openly profiting from it every trip to one of his businesses at taxpayer expense? Congress can’t? Individuals? States? Who exactly would have standing?

That’s not clear, because no one ever thought you’d have someone as boldly corrupt and criminal as Trump to pursue this line of criminality, let alone do so with the complicity of the entire political party backing him.

You would need an overzealous US Attorney to file charges despite the pardon in order to challenge the pardon.

As for the Emoluments Clause, the answer there was always impeachment. The failure to impeach was essentially Congress granting consent under the clause.

186
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:06:37pm
187
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:11:15pm

re: #183 danarchy

Would the golf trips be included in the emoluments clause? It seems to specifically mention foreign states and monarchies. Seems to me the whole golf thing is just garden variety graft.

There’s two emoluments clauses:

Article I, Section 9:

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

Article II, Section 1:

The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

The first question is whether his continued use and profiting from his various businesses/properties violated the Article II clause. And the second is whether foreign nationals/governments were using his properties to curry favor with his administration.

188
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:13:51pm

re: #186 jaunte

Am I reading this right? Does the Trump pardon cover crimes Flynn MAY commit in the future in relation to the existing charges?

189
piratedan  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:16:23pm

re: #188 Eclectic Cyborg

he’s gonna be 00F, licensed to crime…

190
dangerman  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:16:27pm

re: #181 lawhawk

Who has the power to even litigate the claim. In other words, who has standing?

We’ve seen the problem with this in trying to enforce the Emoluments Clause against Trump despite him openly profiting from it every trip to one of his businesses at taxpayer expense? Congress can’t? Individuals? States? Who exactly would have standing?

That’s not clear, because no one ever thought you’d have someone as boldly corrupt and criminal as Trump to pursue this line of criminality, let alone do so with the complicity of the entire political party backing him.

my guess is someone would have to try and indict him on something federal.
(ianal)

191
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:17:56pm

re: #188 Eclectic Cyborg

Am I reading this right? Does the Trump pardon cover crimes Flynn MAY commit in the future in relation to the existing charges?

No, covers potential charges that weren’t brought that could have been brought. At least that’s my reading of it.

I’m curious what Katyal’s argument would be for why this wouldn’t be an effective pardon.

192
PrairieQueen  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:17:57pm

re: #109 dangerman

Glad I’m not a doctor or EMT, because my reaction would be to walk away and let the thoughts and prayers of his fellow klukkers save him. Actually, let nature do its thing.

193
jamesfirecat  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:18:32pm

re: #188 Eclectic Cyborg

Am I reading this right? Does the Trump pardon cover crimes Flynn MAY commit in the future in relation to the existing charges?

I think it said any future findings that would arise from the study of the things that he did during this time period.

That’s the sensible way to read it, sort of like how Nixon was pardoned for all crimes he committed during the time period he was president.

If Donald Trump thinks he can give away pardons for crimes that people haven’t committed yet… I don’t think even his stacked supreme court will go along with that.

194
EPR-radar  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:19:04pm

re: #185 KGxvi

You would need an overzealous US Attorney to file charges despite the pardon in order to challenge the pardon.

As for the Emoluments Clause, the answer there was always impeachment. The failure to impeach was essentially Congress granting consent under the clause.

The constitution has its issues (mainly the Senate and electoral college), but no written document can cope with the kind of bad faith and institutional corruption that Republicans now embody.

195
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:21:27pm

re: #194 EPR-radar

The constitution has its issues (mainly the Senate and electoral college), but no written document can cope with the kind of bad faith and institutional corruption that Republicans now embody.

This is very true. Our institutions are only as strong as the people who occupy them at the moment.

The Senate itself isn’t even necessarily a problem, it’s the Senate rules that currently require more than a majority to pass bills and the concentration of power in the office of majority leader.

The electoral college is an antiquated indirect democratic tool that needs to be sealed in a glass tube within the Smithsonian and never brought up again other than as an answer on Jeopardy

196
BeenHereAwhile  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:21:47pm

re: #133 sagehen

I forget, was Thurmond a D? oh wait, no. it says R-SC. hmmm

Depends what year you’re looking at….

Thurmond fathered a black baby, which was ignored by SC and the media.

Fathering a black baby was a slur used against McCain’s presidential campaign, and probably cost him the SC primary.

197
Jack Burton  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:24:07pm

re: #196 BeenHereAwhile

Thurmond fathered a black baby, which was ignored by SC and the media.

Fathering a black baby was a slur used against McCain’s presidential campaign, and probably cost him the SC primary.

That such a thing is still a “slur” speaks volumes of how far we have to go still.

198
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:33:00pm

She pops up an awful lot.

199
Eventual Carrion  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:36:58pm

re: #180 Belafon

It’s going to require someone to challenge it.

“The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.”

200
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:37:11pm
201
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:37:34pm
202
Belafon  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:44:07pm

re: #199 Eventual Carrion

“The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.”

Someone needs to ask twitter lawyers about that.

203
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:47:17pm
anything that Mueller did *or could have* investigated

This is the part I don’t get. If Flynn loses Fifth Amendment protection by accepting the pardon, how can he lose it for unspecified anything Mueller could have investigated?

204
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:47:48pm

“Could have” is pretty broad.

205
Belafon  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:48:33pm

re: #202 Belafon

Someone needs to ask twitter lawyers about that.

Though reading it a few times, it means that Trump can’t pardon anyone for something they have been impeached for. So he won’t be able to pardon himself for that.

206
jamesfirecat  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:48:52pm

re: #203 jaunte

This is the part I don’t get. If Flynn loses Fifth Amendment protection by accepting the pardon, how can he lose it for unspecified anything Mueller could have investigated?

Well then he has to say the truth about anything he’s asked, or he gets hit with a brand new case of perjury.

Don’t lie to people in court.

Shouldn’t be too hard.

207
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:50:18pm

re: #206 jamesfirecat

I see memory problems in his future.

208
jamesfirecat  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:52:44pm

re: #207 jaunte

I see memory problems in his future.

Start with some simple questions, if he says he doesn’t recall provide him with the proof you found that could have previously been used to charge him proving that he is either committing perjury or suffering from such severe brain damage/memory loss that he is no longer competent and should be reminded to the care of someone else.

209
Chrysicat  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:53:20pm

re: #186 jaunte

[Embedded content]

210
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 3:57:11pm

re: #205 Belafon

Though reading it a few times, it means that Trump can’t pardon anyone for something they have been impeached for. So he won’t be able to pardon himself for that.

It means the pardon power can’t be used to short circuit an impeachment trial in the Senate. It can be used to absolve someone of the legal liability that they could face separate from impeachment.

Example: Random District Court Judge (RDCJ) gets audited by the IRS, they find that his committed tax fraud, in part because he took a bribe. Information and evidence is referred to the House Judiciary Committee. They go through the process and: RDCJ is impeached by the House, convicted by the Senate and removed from the bench. RDCJ could still face legal liability. The president decides, for whatever reason, that RDCJ shouldn’t have to go to prison, so he pardons RDCJ and the DOJ can’t go after him for tax fraud or bribery because he’s been pardoned.

211
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:01:14pm

If as a nation we are sclerotic in making changes that are needed, we are in a down-hill trajectory.

With half the country willing to give Trump dictatorial power, we are indeed seeing what happens to a democratic republic after 250 years.

Remember, we are the oldest of such human political devices.

Many nations turn over after a much shorter life.

IMO it remains to be seen how long a democratic republic can last when a substantial portion of the citizens want a theocracy. The two ways of governing are not compatible.

And Trump has shown how a malicious fool can manipulate those who are so afraid of the future that they want to turn back the clock by centuries.

212
Eventual Carrion  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:02:06pm

re: #202 Belafon

Someone needs to ask twitter lawyers about that.

Yeah, I saw that line and thought it might be something. But not sure what all Flynn is charged with had anything to do with what tRump was impeached for. Flynn was more Russian bribery and collusion I think.

213
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:04:13pm

What Trump has done and is doing is far, far worse than anything Nixon did.

Trump is trying to undo a century of building a more responsible and fair government.

Not since Lincoln has a President been so bold in exercising raw power. Maybe FDR, but his effect was part of a larger political movement dealing with industrialization and the effects of such.

214
BeachDem  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:12:18pm

re: #210 KGxvi

It means the pardon power can’t be used to short circuit an impeachment trial in the Senate. It can be used to absolve someone of the legal liability that they could face separate from impeachment.

Example: Random District Court Judge (RDCJ) gets audited by the IRS, they find that his committed tax fraud, in part because he took a bribe. Information and evidence is referred to the House Judiciary Committee. They go through the process and: RDCJ is impeached by the House, convicted by the Senate and removed from the bench. RDCJ could still face legal liability. The president decides, for whatever reason, that RDCJ shouldn’t have to go to prison, so he pardons RDCJ and the DOJ can’t go after him for tax fraud or bribery because he’s been pardoned.

Or be like Trump’s sister, Maryanne:

On February 1, 2019, four legal professionals, who had filed complaints against Judge Barry in October 2018, stemming from the allegations made in The New York Times, were notified by the Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit that an investigation into judicial misconduct by Barry had been launched, in regard to her alleged participation in fraudulent tax and financial transactions. Ten days later, Barry, a senior inactive judge at the time, announced her retirement from the bench, effectively ending the investigation.

215
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:12:44pm

re: #213 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

What Trump has done and is doing is far, far worse than anything Nixon did.

Trump is trying to undo a century of building a more responsible and fair government.

Not since Lincoln has a President been so bold in exercising raw power. Maybe FDR, but his effect was part of a larger political movement dealing with industrialization and the effects of such.

And he’s not even doing it because he believes in anything. He’s doing it because he believes in nothing but himself.

216
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:15:27pm

re: #103 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Fucking goddamned Nazis and know nothing GOPers who ignore the pandemic, refuse to face facts and reality, and by their actions put those who heal in harm’s way.

read the whole thing (a tweet thread).

Master Race fucking snowflake… he should have just shrugged it off…

217
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:18:34pm

Arizona earlier today. Now…

218
Nojay UK  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:24:11pm

re: #211 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Remember, we are the oldest of such human political devices.

Britain has been, in constitutional terms, governed by a democratically-elected Parliament since at least 1688. The weirdly ahistorical figure you Americans make King George III out to be, simultaneously an autocratic tyrant mastermind and at the same time a deranged madman and ajudge him responsible for all the supposed ills heaped upon the nascent American colonies was a ruler who had in reality little or no political power and only limited powers of patronage, in fact much less than the first Constitutional Presidency of the United States since that property-owners wishlist effectively gave the officeholders of the Executive the powers of an elected autocrat.

I wonder how many Americans know who was actually Prime Minister in Britain in 1776? (Answer, Lord North, the man who oversaw the 1773 Tea Acts legislation that was one of the sparks for the First Slaveholders Treasonous Rebellion.)

There are other representative political assemblies that could claim to be older than Britain’s Parliament, Iceland’s Althing springs to mind. American exceptionalism is, like many things American, only exceptional in American eyes and American history classrooms.

219
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:25:41pm

What. The. Fuck. I mean, bye bye asshole but there’s a PANDEMIC going on.

220
KGxvi  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:29:10pm

re: #218 Nojay UK

Britain has been, in constitutional terms, governed by a democratically-elected Parliament since at least 1688. The weirdly ahistorical figure you Americans make King George III out to be, simultaneously an autocratic tyrant mastermind and at the same time a deranged madman and ajudge him responsible for all the supposed ills heaped upon the nascent American colonies was a ruler who had in reality little or no political power and only limited powers of patronage, in fact much less than the first Constitutional Presidency of the United States since that property-owners wishlist effectively gave the officeholders of the Executive the powers of an elected autocrat.

I wonder how many Americans know who was actually Prime Minister in Britain in 1776? (Answer, Lord North, the man who oversaw the 1773 Tea Acts legislation that was one of the sparks for the First Slaveholders Treasonous Rebellion.)

There are other representative political assemblies that could claim to be older than Britain’s Parliament, Iceland’s Althing springs to mind. American exceptionalism is, like many things American, only exceptional in American eyes and American history classrooms.

The funny thing is, the American Revolution likely would have been avoided if they simply gave the colonies seats in the House of Commons. There would have inevitably been a fight over slavery still, so it might not have worked anyway, but still

221
retired cynic  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:32:08pm

re: #218 Nojay UK

… There are other representative political assemblies that could claim to be older than Britain’s Parliament, Iceland’s Althing springs to mind. American exceptionalism is, like many things American, only exceptional in American eyes and American history classrooms.

Thank you for continuing to remind us!

222
EPR-radar  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:32:20pm

re: #220 KGxvi

The funny thing is, the American Revolution likely would have been avoided if they simply gave the colonies seats in the House of Commons. There would have inevitably been a fight over slavery still, so it might not have worked anyway, but still

“Taxation without representation” was a legit beef the US colonies had vs. Great Britain.

Certainly much more legit than the greater support for slavery in the US colonies.

223
BeachDem  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:36:08pm

re: #219 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

What. The. Fuck. I mean, bye bye asshole but there’s a PANDEMIC going on.

[Embedded content]

Well, his statement says a whole lot of nothing:

“I worked hard with a singular focus — to save lives and help Americans through this pandemic,” wrote Atlas in his statement, defending his work by saying that he “always relied on the latest science and evidence, without any political consideration or influence” and thanking Trump for “the honor and privilege to serve on behalf of the American people.”

224
Belafon  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:37:53pm
225
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:38:21pm
226
Patricia Kayden  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:40:38pm

re: #219 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

What. The. Fuck. I mean, bye bye asshole but there’s a PANDEMIC going on.

[Embedded content]

He’s killed enough people.

227
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:44:08pm

Losing GA. Better than sex.

228
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:48:01pm

re: #219 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

What. The. Fuck. I mean, bye bye asshole but there’s a PANDEMIC going on.

[Embedded content]

229
Jack Burton  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:49:23pm

re: #227 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

Losing GA. Better than sex.

[Embedded content]

Don’t get happy. They can say all this bullshit now, but every one of those Confederate Battle Flag waving, Trump worshiping, racist asshats will be voting on Jan 5. I guarantee it. Everyone on our side that can vote in that election must, as if the fate of the country depends on it. Because it pretty much does.

230
William Lewis  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:50:18pm

re: #218 Nojay UK

Certainly. And if they had, forex, done away with the rotten boroughs and given those mp’s over to the colonies they would have probably had the taxes raised to pay off the 7 Years War without the complaints that the Stamp and Townsend Acts provoke which would then have avoided the issues of the Tea Act et al a few years later.

There would always be contention between the colonies and the homeland - see the history of British Canada for that. Still had the legitimate desire of the colonies to participate in their legislative and taxation destiny, things might have been considerably different.

Not the least of which would be things like Spanish North America to the Missisppi and Russian Alaska reaching down around Vancouver…

231
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:52:41pm

re: #230 William Lewis

Imagine the Charge of the Light Brigade in Spokane.

232
Patricia Kayden  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:53:01pm

233
jamesfirecat  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:54:04pm

re: #229 Jack Burton

Don’t get happy. They can say all this bullshit now, but every one of those Confederate Battle Flag waving, Trump worshiping, racist asshats will be voting on Jan 5. I guarantee it. Everyone on our side that can vote in that election must, as if the fate of the country depends on it. Because it pretty much does.

Please remember, Trump successfully decreased GOP turnout by talking down voting by mail in the Presidential election…

aol.com

We need to do everything we can, but it he’s scored “own goals” before, so it is not impossible to do so again. Raise money, register people to vote, and vote like we’re 2 points behind… but it is not impossible that we’ll get some help from them being such idiots.

234
William Lewis  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:54:36pm

re: #231 jaunte

Imagine the Charge of the Light Brigade in Spokane.

Yow! Oh, Mr. Turtledove, have we got something for you!

235
EPR-radar  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:54:55pm

re: #232 Patricia Kayden

Borowitz missed the target here IMO.

Lindsey Graham is much better cast as Trump’s dog than Pence.

236
Nojay UK  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:55:34pm

re: #222 EPR-radar

“Taxation without representation” was a legit beef the US colonies had vs. Great Britain.

The Thirteen Colonies were not taxed to anything like the levels of citizens in Britain but they cost a lot to support in terms of military expenditures to protect the trade routes, defend against the French and others on the CONUS etc. As for representation, it would take a Colonial constituent representative weeks of dangerous ocean travel to get back and forth between Parliament and his home making real representation very difficult to impossible. It was bad enough for those British constituencies in, for example, the north of Scotland and other remote areas, Trans-Atlantic distances would have made things ten times worse.

“Taxation without Representation” was another slogan, just like the supposed grievances laid at the door of King George III, another excuse for white men to break away from British rule and go forth to conquer and pillage the rest of the continent. At least you were more honest about it later when the Monroe Doctrine was enacted (“It’s all ours, screw the Native Americans”).

237
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:55:50pm

re: #229 Jack Burton

Don’t get happy. They can say all this bullshit now, but every one of those Confederate Battle Flag waving, Trump worshiping, racist asshats will be voting on Jan 5. I guarantee it. Everyone on our side that can vote in that election must, as if the fate of the country depends on it. Because it pretty much does.

Trumpers may not. Something like 78% of them believe the election was rigged and many would die for trump.

238
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:57:47pm

re: #233 jamesfirecat

Please remember, Trump successfully decreased GOP turnout by talking down voting by mail in the Presidential election…

aol.com

We need to do everything we can, but it he’s scored “own goals” before, so it is not impossible to do so again. Raise money, register people to vote, and vote like we’re 2 points behind… but it is not impossible that we’ll get some help from them being such idiots.

And if trump doesn’t win he doesn’t want anyone else to win.

239
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 4:58:17pm
240
jamesfirecat  Nov 30, 2020 • 5:00:27pm

re: #238 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

And if trump doesn’t win he doesn’t want anyone else to win.

Supposedly Trump is going to be going to Georgia and trying to get people energized for the candidates, but he’s not going to be doing until Dec. 5th, so there’s still time for him to change his mind.

Not only that but December 5th also gives an entire month for Trump to change his mind before the election itself and decide he’d rather drag down the Georgia GOP for not supporting him, because there’s nothing he can do in a personal trip to Georgia to help the Republicans that he can’t undo with one single tweet.

241
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 30, 2020 • 5:05:04pm
242
jaunte  Nov 30, 2020 • 5:06:48pm

re: #241 Backwoods_Sleuth

Thread:

243
Renaissance_Man  Nov 30, 2020 • 5:20:16pm

re: #103 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Fucking goddamned Nazis and know nothing GOPers who ignore the pandemic, refuse to face facts and reality, and by their actions put those who heal in harm’s way.

read the whole thing (a tweet thread).

I’m not sure I can write in open forum what I think of some of the replies in that thread.

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

244
Barefoot Grin  Nov 30, 2020 • 5:20:22pm

So I guess Krebs did his job a little too well….

245
Patricia Kayden  Nov 30, 2020 • 5:20:50pm

re: #239 jaunte

Are you kidding me? That’s her house? Wow.

246
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Nov 30, 2020 • 5:21:09pm
247
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Nov 30, 2020 • 5:22:45pm
248
mmmirele  Nov 30, 2020 • 5:24:46pm

re: #24 DesertDenizen

Thank all the expat Californians and young non-white folks. Despite the Air Force base, Tucson is deep blue and the Phoenix area seems to be trending that way as it grows even bigger.

My precinct (just east of Gilbert Rd in Mesa) was *this* close to going blue. It’s the closest I’ve ever seen. I was astounded. It could be population change, or it could be that people were just disgusted. I don’t know.

249
Patricia Kayden  Nov 30, 2020 • 5:25:37pm

re: #246 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

They’re so stupid. Really really stupid.

250
Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo  Nov 30, 2020 • 5:26:32pm
251
Jack Burton  Nov 30, 2020 • 5:30:04pm

re: #247 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

[Embedded content]

I felt like even looking for this was a complete waste of time but here it is:

reuters.com

252
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Nov 30, 2020 • 6:39:23pm

re: #241 Backwoods_Sleuth

253
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Dec 1, 2020 • 8:06:55am

re: #240 jamesfirecat

Supposedly Trump is going to be going to Georgia and trying to get people energized for the candidates, but he’s not going to be doing until Dec. 5th, so there’s still time for him to change his mind.

Not only that but December 5th also gives an entire month for Trump to change his mind before the election itself and decide he’d rather drag down the Georgia GOP for not supporting him, because there’s nothing he can do in a personal trip to Georgia to help the Republicans that he can’t undo with one single tweet.

Trump went down to Georgia.
He was looking for an election to steal.


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