Robert “Sput” Searight & Ghost-Note in BEAST MODE: Drumeo Festival 2020

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Study with legendary drummers:
► https://www.Drumeo.com/coaches/

One of the best parts of the 2020 Drumeo Festival was the full band performances: drummers in their natural habitat!

Arguably one of the most energetic performances at the event, Ghost-Note features Sput Searight (Snarky Puppy) on drums and an incredible group of musicians. On top of Sput’s flawless, funky fusion playing and major personality on the mic, you’ll see him trade solos with percussionist Nate Werth (Snarky Puppy).

This performance also features the fantastic Xavier Taplin on keys, MonoNeon on bass, Jonathan Mones on sax, Peter Knudsen on guitar, and Daniel Wyantis on trombone. People were dancing in their seats - it’s hard to describe the experience when you had to be there!

Follow Ghost-Note
►Website: https://www.ghost-note-official.com/
►Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheGhostNoteBand
►Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ghost_note_official/
►YouTube

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#ghostnote #drumeo #drumeofestival

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275 comments
1
Charles Johnson  Feb 27, 2021 • 5:32:46pm

Mononeon straight brings the funk in this jam. They’re all slamming, but man, those bass breaks were on fire.

2
retired cynic  Feb 27, 2021 • 5:59:33pm

How the press keeps playing dumb about sexism, racism
Here we go again, Eric Boehlert, PressRun

The easiest way for the media to deal with the menacing role gender and race play in American politics, is to simply ignore the topics.

We’re watching that dynamic play out this week as President Joe Biden’s nominee to become the director of the OMB, Neera Tanden, faces roadblocks from key U.S. senators who are using an unprecedented standard to vote against her. Specifically, they’re citing her ‘mean tweets’ from the past.

3
jaunte  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:01:03pm

re: #2 retired cynic

I have been told this is just a “lack of news literacy.”

4
Dread Pirate Ron  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:07:39pm
5
🌹UOJB!  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:12:15pm

Need to hear a clip of Howlin’ Wolf!

6
jaunte  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:25:00pm
7
jaunte  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:30:37pm
8
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:30:59pm

#HyattHitler currently trending on Twitter.

9
🌹UOJB!  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:42:42pm

This is why I now refer to them as the QAP.

10
plansbandc  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:46:55pm

re: #9 🌹UOJB!

The Republican Party: Celebrating idiocy ever day and in every way.

11
thecommodore  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:47:53pm

“Real Americans,” like “PC” and “woke*” is one of those terms you can bet your life savings that abject stupidity will follow its mention.

*When spoken by a wingnut, or wingnut friendly commentator, which sucks, because I really liked it when I first heard it because it fit its meaning perfectly. Now it’s devolved into a cringeworthy right-wing buzzword.

12
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:48:50pm

re: #8 Eclectic Cyborg

#HyattHitler currently trending on Twitter.

If this was a prankster, it’s the most successful prank since Q. CPAC is now known as a Nazi convention on Twitter.

13
William Lewis  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:49:48pm

re: #11 thecommodore

“Real Americans,” like “PC” and “woke*” is one of those terms you can bet your life savings that abject stupidity will follow its mention.

*When spoken by a wingnut, or wingnut friendly commentator, which sucks, because I really liked it when I first heard it because it fit its meaning perfectly. Now it’s devolved into a cringeworthy right-wing buzzword.

I like using “real Americans” against conservatives - like, say, “enough real Americans voted for Biden to prevent Trump from stealing the election” It really pisses the little snowflakes off.

14
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:51:53pm

CPAC - It’s like Comic Con but for racist assholes.

15
🌹UOJB!  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:54:51pm
16
Belafon  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:55:21pm

re: #14 Eclectic Cyborg

CPAC - It’s like Comic Con but for racist assholes.

Except no one at Comic Con believes the people dressed up are real superheroes or space bounty hunters.

17
Charles Johnson  Feb 27, 2021 • 6:57:54pm
18
jaunte  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:00:42pm
19
gocart mozart  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:02:11pm
20
gocart mozart  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:02:59pm
21
mmmirele  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:05:08pm

I went over and visited my mother today. I’m going to be seeing a lot more of her for a while.

The first thing I had to deal with was the black bras I ordered her. I could not for the life of me figure out how, if I bought black, white and beige bras, all the same size, how she could have an issue with only the black ones. She said the straps were too short. She didn’t realize (or couldn’t see) the straps were adjustable. So I adjusted them and it was NOT EASY. So that was fixed and I don’t have to send them back.

Then she wanted me to run to the pharmacy to buy her a tube of Neosporin. I was all, “I know we have at least one tube in the house, here let me look.” (My brother has told me not to just buy something without checking with him, and he was snoozing in front of the Nascar race.) I found it in the second place I looked, which was the medicine cabinet in the front bathroom.

And why she needed that Neosporin?

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

22
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:06:49pm

I might need a bigger boat

23
jaunte  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:09:28pm
24
jaunte  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:10:41pm
25
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:18:47pm

re: #20 gocart mozart

Very interesting and very troubling video. For their own advantage, Cruz and Hawley and almost the entire Republican party are ready to throw out our Constitution, our institutions, and our rights to guarantee permanent control under an autocracy run by unprincipled Republicans with an unshakeable lust for absolute power.

26
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:24:10pm

re: #24 jaunte

Fascinating moment at CPAC just now: A woman in the crowd asked about how to fix the voting machines that “switched thousands and thousands of votes,” and GOP attorney
@cspiesdc
told her that was completely false: “There is just zero evidence that’s true.”

That’s the last time Charlie Spies will be invited to CPAC. This myth will continue to dominate the party and poison our politics unless other leaders can wrest control of the party from Trump and others of his ilk who are bound to the white supremacist ideology.

27
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:24:10pm

re: #11 thecommodore

“Real Americans,” like “PC” and “woke*” is one of those terms you can bet your life savings that abject stupidity will follow its mention.

*When spoken by a wingnut, or wingnut friendly commentator, which sucks, because I really liked it when I first heard it because it fit its meaning perfectly. Now it’s devolved into a cringeworthy right-wing buzzword.

this is the guy who never washes his hands…EVER.

28
Dread Pirate Ron  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:24:55pm
29
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:34:59pm

I was today years old when I learned this:

30
Belafon  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:42:08pm

re: #24 jaunte

I would buy a voting machine from them just to support their lawsuits if I could afford one and even remotely needed it.

31
Dread Pirate Ron  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:54:27pm
32
Patricia Kayden  Feb 27, 2021 • 7:54:48pm

33
ckkatz  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:01:36pm

re: #29 The Pie Overlord!

להקת הנח”ל בשמלה אדומה

להקת הנח”ל בשמלה אדומה

34
🌹UOJB!  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:05:19pm
35
darthstar  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:07:07pm

re: #29 The Pie Overlord!

I was today years old when I learned this:

Holy shit. And I learned it from you.

36
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:07:31pm

re: #31 Dread Pirate Ron

Texas ranks 49th in percentage of its population that’s received at least one vaccine shot.

TBF They had a significant interruption in vaccine distribution due to the weather. It might still be lower than average, but it was really impeded by the snow and cold.

37
Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:10:15pm
38
ckkatz  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:14:47pm

re: #33 ckkatz

By the way, the song is an Israeli song from the 1970’s (post Yom Kippur War) and translates:

In a red dress and two braids,
a lone, small and innocent girl
stood and asked - why?
and all the cannons, and all the soldiers
and all of the adults and all of the wise people,
were ashamed and couldn’t find an answer

and all of the volcanoes and all of the storms
and all of the lions and all of the leopards
and all of the adults and all of the wise people,
were ashamed and couldn’t find an answer

39
darthstar  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:17:02pm

Somehow missed this when it happened. Fucking brilliant.


UPDATE: It’s bullshit. Didn’t happen.

40
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:18:09pm

re: #35 darthstar

Holy shit. And I learned it from you.

Me too! Never noticed it before. Googled it and one theory is the following:

Then, of course, there’s the mildly infuriating lowercase N in the otherwise capitalized Eleven. “One theory is that Thompson’s wife thought the logo seemed a little harsh with all capital letters and suggested that the capital ‘N’ be changed to lowercase so the logo would look more graceful,” 7-Eleven, Inc. tells Reader’s Digest.

41
mmmirele  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:20:30pm

re: #29 The Pie Overlord!

I checked to see if the Japanese 7-11 signs are the same, and they are.

42
danarchy  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:21:52pm

re: #39 darthstar

Somehow missed this when it happened. Fucking brilliant.

Because it didn’t happen.

43
darthstar  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:23:02pm

re: #42 danarchy

Because it didn’t happen.

Yeah…just learned that…sad. updated my post

44
gocart mozart  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:23:14pm

“Toking” with Lawrence Welk

45
🌹UOJB!  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:23:34pm

Sure you saw busloads of Antifa in DC.

You’re too stupid to realize those busses were chartered by Charlie Kirk and Ginny Thomas!

46
I Would Prefer Not To  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:25:14pm

re: #42 danarchy

Because it didn’t happen.

It happened in my world. If republicans can create their own facts, I’m, going to make better ones.

47
jaunte  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:26:12pm

re: #39 darthstar

I posted that distortion here when it was first tweeted, too. The full exchange is here:
snopes.com

48
I Would Prefer Not To  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:29:20pm

re: #47 jaunte

I posted that distortion here when it was first tweeted, too. The full exchange is here:
snopes.com

I just read Garland’s response. He holds his own IMHO. He was never going to call a liar, but I will.

49
jaunte  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:30:03pm

re: #48 I Would Prefer Not To

Yes, he was being baited but didn’t go for it.

50
🌹UOJB!  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:32:23pm

Well, Mr. Nazi got caught in a web of lies…which means nothing to the QAP!

51
darthstar  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:34:17pm

re: #48 I Would Prefer Not To

I just read Garland’s response. He holds his own IMHO. He was never going to call a liar, but I will.

For the record, I still think Barr is a lying cocksucker who deserves to have all that is meaningful in his life stripped away from him.

52
darthstar  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:37:16pm

re: #51 darthstar

For the record, I still think Barr is a lying cocksucker who deserves to have all that is meaningful in his life stripped away from him.

Wow…that’s the first time I used the term ‘cocksucker’ in probably a dozen years. I must be tired…my internal editor usually catches me. Not meant as a homophobic slur though, to be sure.

53
Belafon  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:47:12pm

re: #52 darthstar

Wow…that’s the first time I used the term ‘cocksucker’ in probably a dozen years. I must be tired…my internal editor usually catches me. Not meant as a homophobic slur though, to be sure.

We need a word that say “so willing to make X happy that they’re willing to cheat on their spouse with that person.”

54
darthstar  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:47:47pm
55
darthstar  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:48:33pm

And on that note, it’s time for bed.

56
Patricia Kayden  Feb 27, 2021 • 8:54:59pm

57
Dave In Austin  Feb 27, 2021 • 9:20:01pm

re: #54 darthstar

58
Dave In Austin  Feb 27, 2021 • 9:34:59pm
59
A Cranky One  Feb 27, 2021 • 9:37:48pm

re: #57 Dave In Austin

[Embedded content]

Wanted: quality control inspector to verify fragrances. Only experienced olfactory experts or Trump administration alumni need apply.

60
Nyet  Feb 27, 2021 • 9:41:58pm

Good point. This “tHeY IntENtioNalLy buIlT a NaZi SyMBoL” brouhaha just got even sillier.

61
retired cynic  Feb 27, 2021 • 9:44:01pm

re: #60 Nyet

Oh, right. Totally different.

62
Nyet  Feb 27, 2021 • 9:44:49pm

re: #61 retired cynic

Oh, right. Totally different.

Not the rune. Just a fact.

63
Sherlock Hound  Feb 27, 2021 • 9:44:57pm

Wow.
In Gallica, Spain, they will fine you if you don’t get vaccinated!
I wonder how bad their antivaxxers are? Or their Q contingent?

64
Nyet  Feb 27, 2021 • 9:50:50pm

I like this take.

65
I Would Prefer Not To  Feb 27, 2021 • 9:54:52pm

re: #64 Nyet

I like this take.

[Embedded content]

agreed. I think Biden opened the door for more sanctions or even charges by others. International charges. MBS may never be able to leave his Kingdom again.

66
Nyet  Feb 27, 2021 • 9:55:23pm

re: #65 I Would Prefer Not To

Plus it’s just the beginning.

67
Nyet  Feb 27, 2021 • 9:55:47pm

It’s a welcome change from “MBS is my friend”.

68
Nyet  Feb 27, 2021 • 10:00:40pm

deepfake TikTok Cruise is cringe af

69
I Would Prefer Not To  Feb 27, 2021 • 10:09:34pm

re: #58 Dave In Austin

[Embedded content]

Is it too much to ask for Rage Furby to threaten to sue Molly Jong-Fast? She would eat him alive. Again, I would pay to see it.

70
Jack Burton, Gunner on Death Star of David  Feb 27, 2021 • 10:25:39pm

re: #66 Nyet

Plus it’s just the beginning.

The number of idiots that think *all this* isn’t hard and are doing nothing but complaining that we haven’t been put into a utopia in just 38 days is really starting to itch my ass.

I never listen to the “in my first 100 days I will…” promises from Presidential candidates, because I know shit’s hard and they aren’t fucking absolute monarchs.

Now 1 month and 1 week in and “ZOMG HeZ JuST a NeoLiBeRaL DiSSaPoiNTMeNT LiKe We SaiD He WouLD Be!!!!11ty!”

71
Nyet  Feb 27, 2021 • 10:26:13pm

Trivia.

72
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 27, 2021 • 10:39:11pm
73
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 27, 2021 • 10:44:05pm
74
Nyet  Feb 27, 2021 • 10:46:23pm

re: #73 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

Also her: “The debate dominatrix knows how to rattle Obambi.”.

75
Nyet  Feb 27, 2021 • 10:48:32pm

And just like Greenwald, Dowd has a Pulitzer.

76
Belafon  Feb 27, 2021 • 10:55:54pm

re: #60 Nyet

“This totally isn’t the Nazi symbol. It’s got a box in the middle.”

77
William Lewis  Feb 27, 2021 • 10:59:26pm

re: #72 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt’n😷Trips

[Embedded content]

Sigh. Good ol’ Calvin’s imagination. Only he’d think cases would go flying from a revolver…

Just go here. Imgur

Trust me, if you like calvin, you’ll love it.

Ah, figures.

78
Nyet  Feb 27, 2021 • 11:05:21pm

re: #76 Belafon

“This totally isn’t the Nazi symbol. It’s got a box in the middle.”

[Embedded content]

And it’s totally a swastika behind Obama:

Wait, you don’t see it? How about now?

79
William Lewis  Feb 27, 2021 • 11:05:47pm

Ok, since a link won’t work…

Back to folding towels.

80
Nyet  Feb 27, 2021 • 11:23:48pm

All join Brother Locke’s Scryers’ Guild.

81
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 No Capt'n😷Trips  Feb 27, 2021 • 11:32:47pm

re: #79 William Lewis

82
Cheechako  Feb 27, 2021 • 11:33:18pm

So far tonight (10:30 PM) there’s no reports of any avalanches in the community. We are having a heavy rain with occasional heavy wet snowflakes over the past several hours.

Avalanches are still possible.

I’ve been listening to my PD/FD scanner for any info. Mostly typical Saturday night calls to take inebriated individuals to the sleep-off center.

83
Nyet  Feb 27, 2021 • 11:43:17pm

re: #80 Nyet

Brother Limbaugh has already joined.

“They accuse of us being Nazis, and Obama’s got a healthcare logo that’s right out of Adolf Hitler’s playbook,” said Limbaugh.

84
Targetpractice  Feb 27, 2021 • 11:43:28pm

Air Force finally forced to admit the critics have been right for years:

Fast. Stealthy. Cheap.

Pick two.

85
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:07:11am
86
Dread Pirate Ron  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:15:11am

re: #84 Targetpractice

Air Force finally forced to admit the critics have been right for years:

[Embedded content]

Fast. Stealthy. Cheap.

Pick two.

That story has been pushed all week on many sites. Usually these stories are pushed by Boeing employees. I’d take a F-35 over a F-16 in any fight. The first sign a F-16 would have that a F-35 is around is when his aircraft explodes. If you look at the price of the F-15X, the F-35A is cheaper. The US is not going to build a stealth jet cheaply, even their non-stealth jets are getting up there in price as they add better electronics integration and sensors. If you follow the Red Flag war games you’ll see how superior the F-35 is in combat. I have faith in them working the bugs out.

87
Ace-o-aces  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:18:03am
88
Dread Pirate Ron  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:19:53am

re: #87 Ace-o-aces

Even MAGA’s outsource their work. Not very America First.

89
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:28:53am

re: #87 Ace-o-aces

The symbolism aside, such a culture-destroying paragon of bad taste.

90
Dread Pirate Ron  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:30:49am

King Crimson - Islands

91
William Lewis  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:32:07am

re: #86 Dread Pirate Ron

That story has been pushed all week on many sites. Usually these stories are pushed by Boeing employees. I’d take a F-35 over a F-16 in any fight. The first sign a F-16 would have that a F-35 is around is when his aircraft explodes. If you look at the price of the F-15X, the F-35A is cheaper. The US is not going to build a stealth jet cheaply, even their non-stealth jets are getting up there in price as they add better electronics integration and sensors. If you follow the Red Flag war games you’ll see how superior the F-35 is in combat. I have faith in them working the bugs out.

I don’t. It’s the Gutlass Cutlass or, worse, the F-111 of the modern era. Trying to make a single airframe do multiple missions has never been a good idea. The F-4 came, perhaps, the closest and even it was a mess of compromises - remember the gun pod on the middle era AF jets because missiles were the “stealth” super wonder tech of the day. We would have been far better off building more F-16’s & F-22’s for the Air Farce and more F-18’s for the Navy. The Russians and the Chinese only have prototypes because they don’t offer enough in the real world to be worth the price tags.

The bigger boondoggle coming down the road is the B-21. The B-2 should have been the last manned bomber. Build much smaller, cheaper, faster drones that carry a small number of bombs each and if we lose some, so what? Consider them as an expendable item like a round of ammo and send that many more at the target.

92
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:39:08am

It’s almost like many documentaries today thrive on cooked up “controversies”. Like that Demjanjuk documentary The Devil Next Door, that was all like, maybe we was Ivan the Terrible or maybe not, who knows (despite it having been proved decades ago that he wasn’t).

93
Dread Pirate Ron  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:40:38am

re: #91 William Lewis

Eventually the F-35’s AI will control it’s own drone wing-men.

94
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:45:38am

re: #87 Ace-o-aces

95
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:46:07am

How it started/how it’s going.

96
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:50:05am

re: #44 gocart mozart

sweet jesus

Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas - One Toke Over The Line

97
Dread Pirate Ron  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:53:42am

3 earthquakes in California in the last 20 minutes.

98
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:56:19am

Conservative snowflakes.

99
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:57:48am

re: #98 Nyet

Conservative snowflakes.

Telling us that potatoes don’t have a predetermined gender is PC gone mad…

100
Jack Burton, Gunner on Death Star of David  Feb 28, 2021 • 12:58:38am

re: #91 William Lewis

The B-2 should have been the last manned bomber. Build much smaller, cheaper, faster drones that carry a small number of bombs each and if we lose some, so what? Consider them as an expendable item like a round of ammo and send that many more at the target.

This is how you get the Terminator future. Hard pass.

101
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:00:01am
102
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:13:30am

Omitting Fuentes’ Holocaust denial? Way to go, ADL Arizona.

103
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:14:14am

hi

Extremely local news:

Outside temp: 22°F (-5°Commie) … tomorrow’s low is scheduled to be lower.
Inside temp: 55°F
Furnace out for the second night. Can’t find anyone in the entire Panhandle who can come here to sell us a new furnace and install it, nor in Colorado or Wyoming.

One of the enduring falsehoods of the Religion of Capitalism is that it is good at distributing goods and services to underserved areas or markets.

What capitalism is good at is distributing goods and services where the greatest profit for the least expense can be found.

Hence, after the initial toilet paper apocalypse, people in cities were getting toilet paper as markets ramped up to service them. Our stores are still rationing toilet paper (one package, when the store has it).

That also explains why we have not seen Lysol products (either the original or any derivative product) since the start of the pandemic, and why bleach (when stores have it) sells for double or triple the usual price. It’s why everyone around here has to use corn liquor for hand sanitiser. The only good part of my trips to Cheyenne so far over my hand surgery is I was able to go to stocked stores and buy toilet paper and wipes (but not hand sanitiser or Lysol). Cheyenne is not that big a city (50,000).

On a previous thread, folks were asking how and when you take a mask off when entering a car and when you use sanitiser.

I was advised by a physician at the VA that the correct way to remove a mask when getting in a car is remove it by the earloops (if it is that type, or by straps if not), ideally place it in a paper bag (so it doesn’t contaminate anything else), then sanitise your hands after doing that. (My car smells like corn liquor; I hope I don’t get pulled over by the cops and have to explain that.)

104
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:18:05am

re: #102 Nyet

“This country wouldn’t exist without white people.”

Implied intent to commit White Genocide…and implying that we would be fine without blacks, Natives, Asians and Latinos…

105
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:23:17am

re: #60 Nyet

Good point. This “tHeY IntENtioNalLy buIlT a NaZi SyMBoL” brouhaha just got even sillier.

The whole point of a stunt like this is to be deniable and to insist that snowflake liberals are over-reacting.

They might not have any idea how to run a government but they know how to manipulate a cryptic message.

106
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:23:59am

re: #105 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

107
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:29:05am

re: #12 Punish Domestic Terrorists

If this was a prankster, it’s the most successful prank since Q. CPAC is now known as a Nazi convention on Twitter.

There have been too many “coincidences” in my life with the GOP for me to assume a good faith mistake by CPAC on this.

Too many people have to sign off on something like constructing a main stage which will be televised around the world. Moreover, the void space in the rune shape is just about the worst design I can think of for a stage. That could bring literal meaning to the stage wish of good luck “break a leg.”

All conservatives lie; there’s no reason to believe Matt Schlapp is telling the truth that it was an accident. Moreover, he did not deny that the stage was meant to be that way, he attacked “liberal conspiracy theorists.”

Culture-jamming is what Nazis do. Mr. Schlapp could have done a number of things: Expose who designed the stage. Order the removal of the useless serifs which make the stage look exactly like the SS uniform patch. Cover the stage with something else.

Over the last four years the party adopted a symbol very much like the Nazi eagle clutching a swastika, promotes anti-Semitism and racism, allowed people like former Rep. Steve King to spout white supremacist talking points on the floor of the US House. Refused to censure or otherwise punish people like Rep. Marjorie Taylor-Greene. Use the Proud Boys, III%ers, and Oath Keepers as “personal security.”

Local republicans across the nation have been caught spouting Nazi quotes (like the Illinois US representative), or employing Nazis (like Donald Trump and my state governor).

There is no reason to extend a good faith mistake excuse to CPAC. They are liars and Nazis until they prove otherwise.

108
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:32:13am

This reinforces my view that Modern Conservatism is as much a political/ideological movement as it is the expression of a certain personality type: domineering, confrontational, the sort of people who enjoy provoking a reaction and getting a rise out of someone (“owning the liberals”) so they can then just back away when challenged and insist they were only having a bit of harmless fun…

109
Targetpractice  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:32:50am

re: #86 Dread Pirate Ron

That story has been pushed all week on many sites. Usually these stories are pushed by Boeing employees. I’d take a F-35 over a F-16 in any fight. The first sign a F-16 would have that a F-35 is around is when his aircraft explodes. If you look at the price of the F-15X, the F-35A is cheaper. The US is not going to build a stealth jet cheaply, even their non-stealth jets are getting up there in price as they add better electronics integration and sensors. If you follow the Red Flag war games you’ll see how superior the F-35 is in combat. I have faith in them working the bugs out.

They’ve been “working the bugs out” for damn near a decade now. Delaminating canopies, performance limits dictated by the skin material, software issues that result in 20% of commands not going through, these are not the sort of bugs you expect in an aircraft that’s been officially put into service.

We’ve been told again and again for years now that when this bird finally gets all the kinks worked out, it’s going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread and all those who criticized it will look foolish for ever doubting it. There’s a term for such things: Money pits.

110
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:35:03am

re: #107 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

Good faith or bad faith has nothing to do with it. Only evidence does. First of all, the whole stage form is not the Odal rune (unlike the Masked Singer stage pictured above), only part of it is, so one has to pick and choose what one sees, which in turn makes a coincidence the more likely explanation, a prank being the second most likely one. Second, CPAC caters to mainstream GOP kind of neo/protofascism, not the WWII-minded skinhead crowd (which it excludes, having banned the likes of McInnes and Fuentes), so it had zero motives to do this in the first place.

111
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:41:07am

re: #109 Targetpractice

We’ve been told again and again for years now that when this bird finally gets all the kinks worked out, it’s going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread and all those who criticized it will look foolish for ever doubting it. There’s a term for such things: Money pits.

There was a time when multiple companies worked independently on solutions for defense specifications, but those days are long gone: there now remain only a handful of companies who can deliver those products and they all work on the basis of no-bid, cost-plus contracts, which are magic money machines for the companies.

112
Jack Burton, Gunner on Death Star of David  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:46:18am

re: #107 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

There is no reason to extend a good faith mistake excuse to CPAC. They are liars and Nazis until they prove otherwise.

We all already know this. Nothing we say or do is going to convince the unconvinced at this point.

There’s no need to make us look like Charlie looking for Pepe Silvia because of it. We have larger concerns than the shape of a stage.

113
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:47:25am

Like you actually give a crap about big tobacco, governor.

114
Targetpractice  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:52:49am

re: #113 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

Like you actually give a crap about big tobacco, governor.

[Embedded content]

Basically everything he uses to argue against marijuana…is also a reason to ban alcohol and tobacco sales. But while he singles out “Big Tobacco,” he doesn’t suggest ending cigarette sales.

115
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:56:11am

Yay. BlueAnon in action.

117
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Feb 28, 2021 • 2:04:25am

Brain & Life’s print edition this month (it is free for neurological patients and by paid subscription for everyone else) has an article on Covid-19 and seizures.

All brain injuries and inflammation can cause temporary seizures; permanent damage can cause permanent cases of seizures (epilepsy).

They note in the most recent issue that despite a year into the pandemic and the knowledge that Covid-19 causes seizures and migraines in people not known to have them (and breakthrough seizures in people with epilepsy), very little study has been done to find out if the disease can cause epilepsy. There are only so many researchers, and epilepsy is not a fatal condition (usually), so their time is spent on more immediate concerns.

For people with epilepsy (cough), there is very little information on how the disease can affect us. Epilepsy does not present a higher risk to contracting the disease.

According to the Epilepsy Foundation, upticks have been reported in people with epilepsy having more frequent seizures, which seems to be attributed to (a) stress, and (b) slowdown of the mail causing people to go without or ration their epilepsy medication.

A survey over the summer indicated that 20% of people with epilepsy cannot see a physician due to the pandemic sucking up medical resources (neurologists being drafted to treat Covid-19 patients and restrictions on hospital clinic visits being the two principal reasons cited).

118
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Feb 28, 2021 • 2:17:25am

re: #53 Belafon

We need a word that say “so willing to make X happy that they’re willing to cheat on their spouse with that person.”

We already have a few.

Traitor—the condition you describe (cheating to please another) is what a political traitor does.

Cheater—Like Nazis, we really don’t care why they did it.

True believer—Like religious people, they will throw their own family under a bus to gain favour with that person.

119
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Feb 28, 2021 • 2:22:32am

re: #60 Nyet

Good point. This “tHeY IntENtioNalLy buIlT a NaZi SyMBoL” brouhaha just got even sillier.

They are desperate to change the subject by either “blaming the left” or claiming “the left is the real Nazis.”

120
Dread Pirate Ron  Feb 28, 2021 • 2:23:41am

Marge Greene “Jolene” - A Parody | Guest Post by The Freedom Toast

121
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Feb 28, 2021 • 2:25:41am

re: #62 Nyet

Not the rune. Just a fact.

Not a fact. Your opinion.

How it is perceived is what matters. I trust Matt Schlapp’s non-explanation as far as I can throw him.

If it’s not intended to reflect the Nazi symbol, why are they working so hard to blame lefties for a conspiracy theory rather than just denounce it? Are there good people on both sides?

122
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 2:29:02am

re: #121 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

Not a fact. Your opinion.

Wrong. An objective, verifiable fact, not anyone’s opinion. The whole visible stage is not shaped like a rune.

123
Targetpractice  Feb 28, 2021 • 2:31:00am

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here! This is the War Room!

124
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 2:36:41am

Aside from wingnuts seeing Satan in a DNC emblem and Nazi eagle in the Obamacare symbol, last time I saw this idiocy was just recently, from the Polish nationalists about the anti-anti-choice demos in Poland.

In this

they of course saw this:

125
Jack Burton, Gunner on Death Star of David  Feb 28, 2021 • 2:42:49am

re: #121 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

If it’s not intended to reflect the Nazi symbol, why are they working so hard to blame lefties for a conspiracy theory rather than just denounce it? Are there good people on both sides?

Because they are having a fucking blast pointing out the perceived hypocrisy of the Qanon-esque looking for “bad symbolism” in every little thing that’s happening here. They can both-sides this because we are literally doing right now what they did for years.

As I said: We know they are fucking fascists. Whether or not the stage is shaped like a obscure symbol with a perceived connection to Nazism, which frankly I never even heard of before today outside of it being the letter “o” in Elder Futhark, makes little difference in the grand scheme of things.

The stage could be shaped like a straight up rectangle. They are still Nazis because of what they are saying and doing on it.

126
Dread Pirate Ron  Feb 28, 2021 • 3:07:39am
127
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Feb 28, 2021 • 3:11:07am

re: #110 Nyet

Good faith or bad faith has nothing to do with it. Only evidence does. First of all, the whole stage form is not the Odal rune (unlike the Masked Singer stage pictured above), only part of it is, so one has to pick and choose what one sees, which in turn makes a coincidence the more likely explanation, a prank being the second most likely one. Second, CPAC caters to mainstream GOP kind of neo/protofascism, not the WWII-minded skinhead crowd (which it excludes, having banned the likes of McInnes and Fuentes), so it had zero motives to do this in the first place.

“Only part of it is.” The part where the principle speakers will make their presentations.

I don’t know why you’re so invested in this. Why are you so willing to give CPAC the benefit of the doubt, when the GOP has been trafficking in Nazi symbology for years?

As I noted the last time I was here, Matt Schlapp has been photographed hanging out with actual Nazis and Klansmen. Bill Maher and Michael Steele have called Matt Schlapp out for consorting with known Nazis, and neither of those guys are friends of liberals. Why give him the benefit of the doubt now? And it’s not even “well, maybe it could be a Nazi rune and maybe not” but a vehement denial it could be at all.

I’m willing to accept that it’s not if those responsible for it can give an explanation of what happened. They are instead attacking liberals rather than explaining. DARVO is a tool of the conservative toolbox, which the longer it goes on, the more it convinces me they intended that stage to do exactly what it’s doing: Promoting a Nazi rune.

I admit I do not know much about stage design, but from what I am able to glean on-line, the basic design is first done as a simple drawing submitted to the designer. That person works up a number of presentations to show to both their own employer and those hiring their work. Even the simplest designs are checked to ensure they don’t do something that will get them sued, like infringe on a copyright.

After the people paying for it agree to a design, the work is contracted out (or done in-house) to construct the set.

This fits into the rule about conspiracies: The more people involved, the less likely a conspiracy is the explanation. Aside from the people actually doing the construction, dozens of people would have been involved in allowing such a prank past them without a single one thinking “you know, that looks like a Nazi symbol which comes up at the very top of a Google search” both at the design company and at CPAC.

McInnis claimed (and right-wing blogs parroted) at the time he was kicked out of CPAC (along with Enrique Tarrio) because “liberal media outlets complained” (he specifically cited Mediatite, as if CPAC could give a hoot about what Mediatite writes about CPAC).

I can’t seem to find the reason McInnis was kicked out aside from his explanation splashed across search engines in endless conservative blogs (and one YouTube video). As best as I can tell, they didn’t give a public explanation (though they only kicked him out after his presentation, not before).

128
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Feb 28, 2021 • 3:16:45am

re: #122 Nyet

Wrong. An objective, verifiable fact, not anyone’s opinion. The whole visible stage is not shaped like a rune.

[Embedded content]

Huh. They look the same to me.

129
Dread Pirate Ron  Feb 28, 2021 • 3:24:06am
130
Dangerman  Feb 28, 2021 • 3:25:47am

re: #50 🌹UOJB!

Well, Mr. Nazi got caught in a web of lies…which means nothing to the QAP!

[Embedded content]

nothing will be done.
he’s an R, Jake

131
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 3:26:14am

re: #127 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

I don’t know why you’re so invested in this.

Because I don’t like confirmation bias being presented as proven facts. And why are you invested in pushing the least credible explanation?

As I noted the last time I was here, Matt Schlapp has been photographed hanging out with actual Nazis and Klansmen

Where? Post the photos.

And it’s not even “well, maybe it could be a Nazi rune and maybe not” but a vehement denial it could be at all.

Nope, that’s twisting my words. I explicitly wrote numerous times that the explanation that the rune was intended is possible. (“Possible” and “probable” are not to be confused.)

I also wrote that the shape itself is not a rune, and this holds regardless of intent.

As to why the shape matters, it’s simple - this raises the probability of the “coincidence” explanation. On the other hand, it is entirely possible, for example, that the designer was a prankster, and thus the rune part of the stage was intentional. So “the rune was nevertheless intended” is not ruled out.

This fits into the rule about conspiracies: The more people involved, the less likely a conspiracy is the explanation. Aside from the people actually doing the construction, dozens of people would have been involved in allowing such a prank past them without a single one thinking “you know, that looks like a Nazi symbol which comes up at the very top of a Google search” both at the design company and at CPAC.

Except this explanation raises other problems undermining the hypothesis.
OOH you assume the rune to be famous enough to have been caught by someone.
OTOH you assume it to be obscure enough so that it was intended to appeal only to a very small segment of the population, but - magically - it was supposed to have been ignored by everyone else. Care to explain how this was supposed to be achieved, by the way? Do you really not understand that CPAC leadership cares enough about PR to not have done something like this intentionally even if they were secret skinheads?

132
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Feb 28, 2021 • 3:26:26am

It’s a cult.

Nebraska GOP rebukes Sen. Ben Sasse, stops short of censure (Omaha World-Herald)

COLUMBUS, Neb. — Nebraska’s most politically involved Republicans, many of whom have been itching to give U.S. Sen. Ben Sasse a piece of their mind, sent him a message on Saturday.

But the Nebraska Republican Party stopped short of formally censuring Sasse. Instead, core activists on the GOP’s State Central Committee passed a resolution attacking Sasse’s work as a senator.

Even as voters just reelected Sasse with nearly 63% support, the resolution expresses “deep disappointment and sadness” about Sasse’s six years in service and presses him to represent “the people of Nebraska to Washington,” not the other way around.

It criticizes his legislative record as thin, his record of returning constituent calls and emails as lacking and his choice to leave the Senate Agricultural Committee as misplaced. It criticizes him for failing to follow through on his pledge when running in 2014 to repeal and replace Obamacare.

(more)

133
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 3:28:18am

re: #128 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

Huh. They look the same to me.

Yet they aren’t. That’s called confirmation bias.

134
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Feb 28, 2021 • 3:43:47am

re: #131 Nyet

Because I don’t like confirmation bias being presented as proven facts. And why are you invested in pushing the least credible explanation?

“Least credible explanation” is your opinion.

Where? Post the photos.

Nope, that’s twisting my words. I explicitly wrote numerous times that the explanation that the rune was intended is possible. (“Possible” and “probable” are not to be confused.)

Nice thing about the find a word function in Firefox, I can put your name in it and read every comment you wrote. You did not write that the rune was intended was possible, at least not on this thread. You did claim that liberals were acting like Qanon though, trying to see symbols which aren’t there (in this case, by seeing a photograph which looks like the rune and saying “this looks like the rune”).

You did write this though at the top of the thread:

Good point. This “tHeY IntENtioNalLy buIlT a NaZi SyMBoL” brouhaha just got even sillier.

I also wrote that the shape itself is not a rune, and this holds regardless of intent.

In the pedantic sense that this is not a carved letter in some hard material like stone or wood, or a tile from a late XX Century divination technique which is a poor knock-off of Tarot cards, it is not a rune.

As to why the shape matters, it’s simple - this raises the probability of the “coincidence” explanation. On the other hand, it is entirely possible, for example, that the designer was a prankster, and thus the rune part of the stage was intentional. So “the rune was nevertheless intended” is not ruled out.

Except this is explanation raises other problems undermining the hypothesis.
OOH you assume the rune to be famous enough to have been caught by someone.

It was caught by me as soon as I saw it. That said, I have a Nazi down the street from me.

OTOH you assume it to be obscure enough so that it was intended to appeal only to a very small segment of the population, but - magically - it was supposed to have been ignored by everyone else. Care to explain how this was supposed to be achieved, by the way? Do you really not understand that CPAC leadership cares enough about PR to not have done something like this intentionally even if they were secret skinheads?

Matt Schlapp hangs out with known Nazis, so if it’s PR he cares about, that’s the PR he’s pushing.

And where did I say it was obscure and only meant to appeal to a small part of the population? I think you made that up. I can’t find it using that same search function on my name here.

At any rate, I’m going to move away from this topic. Calling out culture jamming should be done every time it’s attempted, whether it’s the New York Times writing articles about the nice Nazi who lives next door, or stages which suspiciously look like Nazi symbology only ten months after Nazi groups like the National Socialist Movement said to start using that symbol rather than swastikas because it would be more acceptable to the public if they don’t know what it means.

135
steve_davis  Feb 28, 2021 • 3:53:44am

re: #40 Hecuba’s daughter

Me too! Never noticed it before. Googled it and one theory is the following:

the other more obvious idea is that seven eleven realized people would notice it and then spend time trying to figure out why seven eleven has a lower case “n” in the name, which means the company would receive an enormous amount of free publicity by having people ask other people “How come seven eleven has….?” And other people would spend random moments in their day thinking, “Hmmm….isn’t that quirky about seven eleven.”

136
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Feb 28, 2021 • 3:54:07am

live

Spacewalk to Prepare the International Space Station for Solar Array Upgrades 

,,

137
Decatur Deb  Feb 28, 2021 • 3:57:08am

While LGF can’t decide if CPAC is nazi enough, Free Republic has moved on to the menace of CV19 anal swabbing. Let’s pick up the pace, people.

138
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 3:57:37am

re: #134 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

> “Least credible explanation” is your opinion.

An opinion for which I brought forth arguments which you have failed to address.

> Nice thing about the find a word function in Firefox, I can put your name in it and read every comment you wrote. You did not write that the rune was intended was possible,

Of course I have. In fact, I wrote this to you in this thread:

littlegreenfootballs.com

which in turn makes a coincidence the more likely explanation, a prank being the second most likely one

You don’t seem to be a reliable narrator.

> at least not on this thread

And this is not the first thread where this topic has been discussed, so pointing out (wrongly!) that I didn’t write something in this thread doesn’t prove anything in regard to what I wrote or did not write at LGF.

> You did claim that liberals were acting like Qanon though,

If you mean all liberals, then it’s a lie. If you mean some liberals, then sure - but there’s a simple solution for this: they should stop acting like QAnon and others will stop calling them out for it.

>> You did write this though at the top of the thread:

> Good point. This “tHeY IntENtioNalLy buIlT a NaZi SyMBoL” brouhaha just got even sillier.

Sure, and CPAC leadershup doing it intentionally is still the least credible explanation, as already explained.

> In the pedantic sense that this is not a carved letter in some hard material like stone or wood, or a tile from a late XX Century divination technique which is a poor knock-off of Tarot cards, it is not a rune.

Is this supposed to be an argument of some sort? Too obscure for me.

> Matt Schlapp hangs out with known Nazis

Ah, yeah, BTW you mentioned photos but posted none. Care to do it?
And what Nazis would those be, too? Because last time you tried to establish this, I pointed out your mistake: littlegreenfootballs.com

> And where did I say it was obscure and only meant to appeal to a small part of the population? I think you made that up. I can’t find it using that same search function on my name here.

So when you wrote
littlegreenfootballs.com

That’s the point of fascist symbology. They deal in obscure icons or repurpose common icons (such as the okay sign) so they can later plausibly deny they had anything to do with fascists.

- you did not mean to signify this rune as one of the obscure icons? Really?

Also, in the end, no answers from you on the motives or on how the supposed signaling was supposed to have been achieved without the mainstream noticing and calling out CPAC.

139
O say, does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave..  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:03:03am

re: #137 Decatur Deb

While LGF can’t decide if CPAC is nazi enough, Free Republic has moved on to the menace of CV19 anal swabbing. Let’s pick up the pace, people.

Let’s settle it this way: Someone deliberately built the stage in the shape of the rune. It is unclear if the higher-ups knew what that meant or not; it is very plausible that they are stupid enough not to know and lazy enough not to care. Now can we get back to the great War of Pineapple on Pizza?

140
Decatur Deb  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:05:23am

re: #139 O say, does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave..

…Now can we get back to the great War of Pineapple on Pizza?

OK.

141
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:05:35am

re: #139 O say, does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave..

Let’s settle it this way: Someone deliberately built the stage in the shape of the rune. It is unclear if the higher-ups knew what that meant or not; it is very plausible that they are stupid enough not to know and lazy enough not to care. Now can we get back to the great War of Pineapple on Pizza?

Here’s the twist: what about a pizza on a pineapple?

142
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:09:15am

143
O say, does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave..  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:10:36am

re: #142 Nyet

[Embedded content]

The use of canned pineapple, when serving a pizza on a pineapple, seems like it’s adding insult to injury. (Disclaimer: I like pineapple on pizza, and serving a pizza on a pineapple actually sounds like an intriguing idea.)

144
Decatur Deb  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:11:26am

re: #142 Nyet

Should win the Treyf Olympics.

145
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:13:50am

re: #143 O say, does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave..

The use of canned pineapple, when serving a pizza on a pineapple, seems like it’s adding insult to injury. (Disclaimer: I like pineapple on pizza, and serving a pizza on a pineapple actually sounds like an intriguing idea.)

Pervert!
Welcome to the club.
/

146
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:17:39am

Wait, this will be misunderstood by the Q folks.

147
O say, does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave..  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:19:59am

re: #140 Decatur Deb

Speaking of the Rage Furby, has he been re-banned from Twitter yet? I have the over; I expect it’ll be round about Monday or Tuesday.

148
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:21:05am

re: #147 O say, does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave..

twitter.com

Not dead yet, but at least Generalissimo Francisco Franco still is.

149
O say, does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave..  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:26:24am

re: #148 Nyet

twitter.com

Not dead yet, but at least Generalissimo Fransisco Franco still is.

I think it takes 2-3 days for reports to filter through their automated systems and get actioned on, from what I recall last time. Part of it might be a manual review, which would only occur during US business hours on weekdays. I imagine his choice to return to Twitter on a Friday night was not a coincidence.

150
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:27:52am

re: #138 Nyet

“Least credible explanation” is your opinion.

An opinion for which I brought forth arguments which you have failed to address.

> Nice thing about the find a word function in Firefox, I can put your name in it and read every comment you wrote. You did not write that the rune was intended was possible,

Of course I have. In fact, I wrote this to you in this thread:

littlegreenfootballs.com

You don’t seem to be a reliable narrator.

> at least not on this thread

And this is not the first thread where this topic has been discussed.

> You did claim that liberals were acting like Qanon though,

If you mean all liberals, then it’s a lie. If you mean some liberals, then sure - but there’s a simple solution for this: they should stop acting like QAnon and others will stop calling them out for it.

>> You did write this though at the top of the thread:

> Good point. This “tHeY IntENtioNalLy buIlT a NaZi SyMBoL” brouhaha just got even sillier.

Sure, and CPAC leadershup doing it intentionally is still the least credible explanation, as already explained.

> In the pedantic sense that this is not a carved letter in some hard material like stone or wood, or a tile from a late XX Century divination technique which is a poor knock-off of Tarot cards, it is not a rune.

Is this supposed to be an argument of some sort? Too obscure for me.

> Matt Schlapp hangs out with known Nazis

Ah, yeah, BTW you mentioned photos but posted none. Care to do it?
And what Nazis would those be, too? Because last time you tried to establish this, I pointed out your mistake: littlegreenfootballs.com

> And where did I say it was obscure and only meant to appeal to a small part of the population? I think you made that up. I can’t find it using that same search function on my name here.

So when you wrote
littlegreenfootballs.com

- you did not mean to signify this rune as one of the obscure icons? Really?

Also, in the end, no answers from you on the motives or on how the supposed signaling was supposed to have been achieved without the mainstream noticing and calling out CPAC.

This is what you wrote in comment #110:

Good faith or bad faith has nothing to do with it. Only evidence does. First of all, the whole stage form is not the Odal rune (unlike the Masked Singer stage pictured above), only part of it is, so one has to pick and choose what one sees, which in turn makes a coincidence the more likely explanation, a prank being the second most likely one. Second, CPAC caters to mainstream GOP kind of neo/protofascism, not the WWII-minded skinhead crowd (which it excludes, having banned the likes of McInnes and Fuentes), so it had zero motives to do this in the first place.

That doesn’t read to me like “it could have been intentional, but it probably wasn’t.”

I apologise for not posting photographs when you asked.

Here’s one with Steve Bannon:
gettyimages.com

A list of white supremacists and Nazis who were allowed into the 2018 CPAC convention, such as Peter Brimelow and Nick Fuentes

huffpost.com

Sebastian Gorka will be a speaker this year at CPAC. Surely Mr. Schlapp could have him banned if he wanted.

I posted this the other day (caution for horrible Web design) but I’ll post it again.

At “Million MAGA March,” GOP Politicians Rally with Neo-Nazis, White Nationalists, Hate Groups (Goes to How to Fight Anti-Semitism). Matt Schlapp was there with numerous neo-Nazis. It’s amazing how this guy keeps accidentally showing up in the same places they do.

The only reason I returned to the topic here is because you called me out for not posting photographs when I asserted there were photographs. I don’t normally download photographs to post, because of my can-and-string Internet service taking far too long to do that. Hence the links to other sites, where you can look at them if you wish.

I’m really moving on from this subject now. I haven’t found myself in the company of Nazis but this guy seems to have them falling out of the sky around him. Huh.

151
mmmirele  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:47:02am

re: #63 Sherlock Hound

Wow.
In Gallica, Spain, they will fine you if you don’t get vaccinated!
I wonder how bad their antivaxxers are? Or their Q contingent?

[Embedded content]

To be perfectly honest, I’ve been wondering how my evil too big to fail employer was going to handle that. Because people like me, even when I get the vaccinations, are not going to want to sit in the same big old room with air circulating over and over and over again for hours on end with people who have decided that MUH FREEDUMBS mean they don’t get a vaccination. That said, the coworkers I’ve discussed this with have said to just get a note from the doctor saying that the environment is not conducive for someone who has comorbidities and is a caretaker for an elderly person. But that only eliminates the problem for me.

That said, the evil too big to fail employer is definitely in favor of vaccination and is continuing to lobby states and other jurisdictions to include bank employees as essential workers. Given how weird people get when they can’t virtually (or physically) fondle their money, I would tend to agree with that.

152
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:48:18am

I’m going to head off to bed.

Local indoor weather: It’s now 52°F in my house.

I’m off later to see if I can scrounge up a space heater.

I have a couple appointments in Cheyenne over the next couple days: One is to remove the stitches from my hand (and maybe they can stop the bleeding, which has gone on for two weeks now).

To everyone’s great relief, I’ll probably not be at LGF for several days.

G’night y’all.

153
O say, does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave..  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:51:32am

re: #152 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

I’m going to head off to bed.

Local indoor weather: It’s now 52°F in my house.

I’m off later to see if I can scrounge up a space heater.

I have a couple appointments in Cheyenne over the next couple days: One is to remove the stitches from my hand (and maybe they can stop the bleeding, which has gone on for two weeks now).

To everyone’s great relief, I’ll probably not be at LGF for several days.

G’night y’all.

Get some rest. I hope you can warm up soon; I remember all too well how shocking it was to wake up to a house that was 59 degrees… 52 is just way too freaking cold. I hope they can get the bleeding under control, and contrary to popular opinion, you will be missed.

154
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:52:49am

re: #150 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

> At any rate, I’m going to move away from this topic.

Great to have you back so soon.

> That doesn’t read to me like “it could have been intentional, but it probably wasn’t.”

Dude. Acknowledging a prank as the 2nd most likely option is saying it could have been intentional.

> Here’s one with Steve Bannon:

Ah, it’s one thing when you pejoratively call him and people like Gorka or Brimelow Nazis because of their racist views, this is the kind of discourse that can be justified.

It’s another thing entirely when you drag this discourse as an argument into a discussion about the actual WWII Nazi symbols. These people are very bad dudes, some of them are fascists in the general sense, but they’re not literally skinheads agitated by Nazi symbols. That’s bait and switch.

The neo-Nazis like Fuentes are, on the other hand, relevant, and the fact that he was banned from CPAC actually prima facie contradicts the thesis that “Schlapp is intentionally using literal Nazi symbols”. In fact, this shows that Schlapp is wary of the PR around such folks so this would be a 180 for him to intentionally use an actual Nazi rune.

> Matt Schlapp was there with numerous neo-Nazis

As I pointed out to you two times already, and as you have ignored both times, the neo-Nazis like Fuentes were not official speakers at the event, though of course they latched onto it. So, again, irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

155
steve_davis  Feb 28, 2021 • 4:53:40am

re: #108 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

This reinforces my view that Modern Conservatism is as much a political/ideological movement as it is the expression of a certain personality type: domineering, confrontational, the sort of people who enjoy provoking a reaction and getting a rise out of someone (“owning the liberals”) so they can then just back away when challenged and insist they were only having a bit of harmless fun…

conservatism has never been an ideological movement. it is a reaction to classical liberalism. Its predecessor was monarchism, as practiced by such conservative icons as Edmund Burke, who literally believed that people who weren’t at least upper middle-class didn’t exist for the purposes of political discussion, and had no say in affairs of state.

156
Targetpractice  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:01:05am
157
Dangerman  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:05:49am

what we’ve been saying all along

“I think he’s going to run in 2024 because this is the most money that he’s ever made. Just imagine making $300 million off of these rubes that he’s conning after the election with his big lie… So he’ll run again in 2024.”

— Anthony Scaramucci, on MSNBC, predicting Donald Trump will run for president in 2024.

158
mmmirele  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:06:44am

re: #102 Nyet

Omitting Fuentes’ Holocaust denial? Way to go, ADL Arizona.

[Embedded content]

Twitter does have a character limit. And some people don’t want to read more than one tweet at a time.

This is absolutely not related, but I’m brushing up on my Spanish. I have learned that “tweet” is “tuit” and “to tweet” is “tuitear”, but only when referring to the bird site. When birds tweet, it’s “pio” and the verp is “piar”.

159
Decatur Deb  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:09:08am

re: #156 Targetpractice

‘Their blood has the death shot in it!’: Anti-vaxxers freaking out over blood donations from the vaccinated

This is sort of a bad thing, because they make decisions for kids, but just let the dumbfucks do it. It just gets old.

160
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:11:35am

re: #158 mmmirele

Twitter does have a character limit. And some people don’t want to read more than one tweet at a time.

This is absolutely not related, but I’m brushing up on my Spanish. I have learned that “tweet” is “tuit” and “to tweet” is “tuitear”, but only when referring to the bird site. When birds tweet, it’s “pio” and the verp is “piar”.

I’d say info that he’s a Holocaust denier is more important in such a tweet than that he praised the insurrection.

161
Patricia Kayden  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:12:17am

re: #92 Nyet

I didn’t know that he wasn’t. I watched that documentary on Netflix.

162
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:16:07am

re: #161 Patricia Kayden

I didn’t know that he wasn’t. I watched that documentary on Netflix.

Exactly the point. The actual Ivan the Terrible was Ivan Marchenko, a man with an entirely different bio.

163
mmmirele  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:17:37am

re: #156 Targetpractice

[Embedded content]

They’d hate one of my coworkers, then. Since she volunteers with hospice AND also has a therapy dog that she takes to the airport to just walk around so people can pet it, she has gotten her shots already. Plus she donates blood every eight weeks like clockwork. On top of that, she can take ALL that time as volunteer work and get paid by the bank (but she does so much more than the 16 hours allotted every year). There are a few advantages for working at the ultimate temple of capitalism.

164
Dangerman  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:18:35am

re: #156 Targetpractice

[Embedded content]

you don’t want ‘vaccinated’ blood? i’m fine with this.

in case you need blood
inform your doctors (if you are conscious / able)
that all blood should be tested before it’s given to you
if it’s positive for the vaccination, they must reject it
(of course now it has to be destroyed and you will pay, right?)

if you’re lucky, (and you have a popular blood type) maybe they’ll find a pint that was donated by someone not yet vaccinated

if not, we’ll you’re either out of luck
or you’ll have to decide if you literally want to die on this hill of idiocy
i am also fine with this

165
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:18:47am

We have a neonazi in our village with his ZL 22 license plate and an black 88 hidden in his tinted windows…

They are fond of these cryptic signs because they can always deny them

ZL = Z as the final letter of the alphabet Endlösung (final solution)
22 = BB for Blut und Boden (Blood and Soil) and
88 = HH (Heil Hitler)

and of course 14

FFS = For Fatherlands’ Sake

166
Dangerman  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:24:44am

re: #165 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

We have a neonazi in our village with his ZL 22 license plate and an black 88 hidden in his tinted windows…

They are fond of these cryptic signs because they can always deny them

ZL = Z as the final letter of the alphabet Endlösung (final solution)
22 = BB for Blut und Boden (Blood and Soil) and
88 = HH (Heil Hitler)

and of course 14

FFS = For Fatherlands’ Sake

im so proud and certain in my beliefs that when i display them i hide them, code them, and deny them when challenged

167
Dangerman  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:26:13am

re: #165 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

We have a neonazi in our village with his ZL 22 license plate and an black 88 hidden in his tinted windows…

They are fond of these cryptic signs because they can always deny them

ZL = Z as the final letter of the alphabet Endlösung (final solution)
22 = BB for Blut und Boden (Blood and Soil) and
88 = HH (Heil Hitler)

and of course 14

FFS = For Fatherlands’ Sake

also, give me a few minutes and i might be able to come up with an alternate to that last one

168
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:27:22am

re: #167 Dangerman

That last one is Wendell’s, so the second meaning is built in ;)

169
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:30:11am

re: #166 Dangerman

im so proud and certain in my beliefs that when i display them i hide them, code them, and deny them when challenged

In Germany use of Nazi symbols for propaganda purposes is illegal and can be prosecuted, which is why they resort to these “coded messages”.

170
Decatur Deb  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:31:00am

re: #166 Dangerman

im so proud and certain in my beliefs that when i display them i hide them, code them, and deny them when challenged

These messages aren’t for us, they’re for each other. The purpose to to build morale and create a spurious sense of numerical strength.

171
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:36:17am

It gets even crazier. Lonsdale was a popular brand because you could wear a T-shirt bearing the logo with another shirt over it partway open to read “NS”

To the point that someone came up with the fictitious brand “Lonsdaple” which you can partially obscure to read NSDAP, the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei

So it is now the law in Germany (I kid you not, I picked up an official government pamphlet on this topic) that you may wear a Lonsdale or Lonsdaple shirt, but not in such a way that the first and last letters are concealed to read NS or NSDAP.

172
Decatur Deb  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:38:32am

re: #169 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

In Germany use of Nazi symbols for propaganda purposes is illegal and can be prosecuted, which is why they resort to these “coded messages”.

In decades past, I thought that it was sad that their unique history made it necessary to limit the right of free expression in FRG. We could exercise free speech but they couldn’t, because they were somehow culturally and behaviorally “different”.

173
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:40:24am

re: #171 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

*Consdaple

They basically made their own brand when Lonsdale condemned neo-Nazis.

174
Patricia Kayden  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:40:31am

re: #162 Nyet

Yeah, that doesn’t look like hi at all.

175
jeffreyw  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:41:58am

Good morning!

176
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:44:00am

re: #172 Decatur Deb

In decades past, I thought that it was sad that their unique history made it necessary to limit the right of free expression in FRG. We could exercise free speech but they couldn’t, because they were somehow culturally and behaviorally “different”.

That is part of it, but I hate to admit that a lot of it is because they would simply rather just ignore it all and pretend that Neonazis are not really a problem.

It came to ahead when a fellow was selling T-shirts and posters in Stuttgart with a version of the “Pitch in” campaign, showing a fellow tossing a swastika into a trash bin.

City authorities shut him down because, well, the law is the law and a swastika is a swastika and public display was forbidden.

So now (and that is also covered in the pamphlet I fetched on display of right-wing and neo-Nazi symbols) it has been ruled that a swastika may be displayed if it is clearly in an ANTI-Nazi context.

I understand that they have a special history, but you see what happens when you start out with the best intentions….

177
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:45:08am

re: #173 Nyet

*Consdaple

They basically made their own brand when Lonsdale condemned neo-Nazis.

[Embedded content]

That is the brochure of which I speak, although I am citing an edition from 2010.

And Nyet, you continue to remind me that I must always cite and confirm my sources…

178
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:49:11am

re: #174 Patricia Kayden

Yeah, that doesn’t look like hi at all.

Plus dozens of guards at different times and in different places testified that Marchenko ran the engine. In fact, Nikolay Shalayev, who usually appears in the survivors’ testimonies together with Ivan (usually as “Ivan and Nikolay” or “Ivan and Mykola”) also testified about Marchenko.

As far as the false identification testimonies… I’ll quote from what I wrote elsewhere. Here it should be noted that we have an intersection of two problems at once here: the false memory problem, which was largely unrecognized at the time (cf. Satanic panic) and the very problematic area of visual identification, especially identification after decades after the fact.

One or the leading experts in false memory research, Elizabeth Loftus, chose not to testify for the defence (she explained that due to her Jewish background the personal cost would be too high for her), but she recommended her acquaintance, the memory expert Willem Wagenaar to testify in Jerusalem. He did, and then wrote a meticulously detailed study of witness identifications in the case, Identifying Ivan. A case study in legal psychology (1988, Harvard University Press), a detailed summary of which with numerous quotes you can read in the appendix at the last link.

Basically, there were only 9 survivors who claimed to recognize Demjanjuk during the official interrogations. Whereas there were at least 15 (including one survivor who lived in the camp the longest, knew Ivan well and was forced to help building the gas chambers) who either did not recognize Demjanjuk or said he was not Ivan.

The first two witnesses who testified in May of 1976, Turowski and Goldfarb, did not recognize Demjanjuk at first. The third witness to testify in May, Rosenberg, said the face was familiar but literally “declined” to “identify with certainty”.

All other witnesses were interrogated from September 1976 on, which is significant, since on each August 2, the day of the uprising, the Treblinka surviors in Israel used to meet in Tel Aviv and there’s no chance the shocking “discovery” that Ivan was alive was not discussed there. All the subsequent positive identifications came from the Israeli survivors.

The fourth positive witness, Czarny, failed to identify Demjanjuk on the first try. Boraks and Lindwasser identified him with certainty. Epstein used phrases like “this is how I remember him”, “reminds me very strongly of” - so no certainty, and he also falsely identified Nikolay (Shaleyev) on an unrelated photo. Levkowitch made a positive identification, Rajchman took half an hour to reach the conclusion of “fairly certain”.

So only three witnesses - Boraks, Levkowitch and Lindwasser - identified Demjanjuk immediately and with certainty. Unfortunately, their testimonies cannot be shown to be independent since they were late and it had to be investigated what they knew before their identifications from the other survivors. However Levkowitch did not testify during the trial (her testimony was withdrawn), Lindwasser died before it and Boraks’ memory more or less completely failed him during the trial, so the issue remained uninvestigated - but most probably their testimonies were not indepedent from those of Turowski, Goldfarb and Rosenberg. Due to deaths and for other reasons only 5 witnesses testified in the Jerusalem court (Rosenberg, Czarny, Boraks, Epstein, and Rajchman).

During the trial itself the witnesses who were either not completely sure during the first identifications sessions or did not recognize him at all at first, suddenly claimed they recognize him with complete and utter certainty. Which only shows that such confidence is not worth much. They simply convinced themselves with time that they got the right man (and Wagenaar explains the psychological mechanisms of it happening).

Aside from the problems with the witnesses themselves there were huge problems with identification procedures which were irredeemably flawed (due to the investigators either completely untrained or inadequately trained in such procedures). The photo spreads were completely wrong and biased (e.g. there was no one remotely resembling Demjanjuk among the foils, which made him stand out), the investigators were leading the witnesses, different albums with the same person were shown to the same witnesses (a no-no), the issue of the indepedence of the identifications was not even touched upon, the crucial negative results were not systematically gathered, and so on.

Demjanjuk’s official name in the concentration camp system was “Iwan Demjanjuk”, with slight phonetically almost identical variations thereof appearing in various documents.

There’s not the slightest documentary hint of Demjanjuk ever having been to Treblinka even once, not to mention for a prolonged time. As opposed to his stay in Sobibor, about which there’s a wealth of documentation.

His identification as Ivan the Terrible stems purely from identifications from very few witnesses discussed above.

Ivan the Terrible’s actual name is established through an impressive number of testimonies - at least 38 of his Trawniki colleagues (perhaps most importantly, by Nikolai Shaleyev, another gas chamber operator, who is usually mentioned in the survivor testimonies together with Ivan) as well as other people who knew him. His name was Ivan Marchenko and unlike Demjanjuk he was born in 1911 in Dnepropetrovsk. His last traces disappear in 1945 in Yugoslavia.

Marchenko was neither a phantom, nor an alias. He was an actual person whose daughter was in fact still alive in the 1990s.

So we know that:

- Ivan the Terrible was Ivan Marchenko, a real and entirely different person from Demjanjuk.

- Demjanjuk used his real name in the camps and thus couldn’t have used an additional alias since he was “Demjanjuk” in the official paperwork.

(This has to be mentioned, since there’s an argument going around that Demjanjuk specifying his mother’s maiden name as “Marchenko” in the US paperwork is somehow significant. It’s anything but. Whatever the maiden name of his mother, it was JD and not she that was accused, and his name was not Marchenko, so it’s hard to see the relevance. And the maiden name of his mother is actually Tabachuk - he forgot it and wrote in one of the most popular Ukrainian surnames (think “Smith” or “Jones”). The “argument” thus quickly turns out to be a total dud.)

This settles the issue and completely trumps the weak witness identification evidence.

I should note here that the German court that convicted Demjanuk positively excluded the possibility of him having been Ivan the Terrible - it specifically addressed this issue in the verdict.

179
Decatur Deb  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:49:31am

re: #176 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

In an air museum in Hannover there is a salvaged and restored Fw190. By a fluke it is reconstructed as the very plane (Gelb 11) that Alfred Bindseil flew to kill my father. The museum had to go through hoops to put the swastika on the empennage.

180
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:51:30am

re: #179 Decatur Deb

In an air museum in Hallstadt there is a salvaged and restored Fw 190. By a fluke it is reconstructed as the very plane (Gelb 11) that Alfred Bindseil flew to kill my father. The museum had to go through hoops to put the swastika on the empennage.

They do make exceptions for historical displays of swastikas.

181
Eric The Fruit Bat  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:54:46am

Not that we really care…

AP: Rush Limbaugh buried in private cemetery in St. Louis

182
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:55:24am

re: #181 Eric The Fruit Bat

Not that we really care…

AP: Rush Limbaugh buried in private cemetery in St. Louis

Address plz… //

183
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:57:51am

Germany has some odd laws arising from its militaristic past.

I went to a modelling convention once in a Town Hall in which they had put up a 5,000-figure diorama reconstruction of the Battle of Gettysburg of all things.

It was most impressive but I commented that if they were going to go through all that trouble, why not portray something dramatic like the climax of Pickett’s charge breaking into the stone wall?

The fellow in charge said that they were allowed to show military dioramas but not portray hand-to-hand fighting as that might be construed as Kriegsverherrlichung (“glorification of war”) and that was not permitted to be shown in a public venue.

184
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 5:58:58am

re: #181 Eric The Fruit Bat

Not that we really care…

AP: Rush Limbaugh buried in private cemetery in St. Louis

I wish to honor him by pouring a bottle of the finest Kentucky bourbon on his grave (after passing it through my bladder first)…

185
b.d. (America is Great Again)  Feb 28, 2021 • 6:00:20am

Good morning Lizards:

186
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 6:01:00am

re: #184 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I wish to honor him by pouring a bottle of the finest Kentucky bourbon on his grave (after passing it through my bladder first)…

I’d also invite the Rage Furby to do his thing…

187
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 6:05:03am

re: #185 b.d. (America is Great Again)

I told them, well, I’ve actually BEEN in the White House and SEEN Joe Biden there and their answer was, well, that’s like your opinion.

These people occupy a higher plane of Reality: The New Media Reality.

They came within a hair of making it the New Reality for the rest of us, only a record voter turnout and the actions of a number of brave and conscientious government officials (some of them even GOP) prevented QAnon from become the new arbiter of what is real and what is not.

188
mmmirele  Feb 28, 2021 • 6:06:54am

re: #172 Decatur Deb

In decades past, I thought that it was sad that their unique history made it necessary to limit the right of free expression in FRG. We could exercise free speech but they couldn’t, because they were somehow culturally and behaviorally “different”.

The German government regularly made this argument with the US State Department in the 1990s and 2000s when State would condemn Germany for its treatment of Scientology. As far as the German government is concerned, Scientology is not a religion but a group with an ideology inimical to democracy and needs to be carefully watched.

Because we have a 1st Amendment, we can’t do similar “spying on” organizations which declare themselves to be religious; there has to be a criminal reason for going after a church.

I’m personally convinced that the reason the NXIVM trafficking case was relatively “easy” was because Keith Raniere never claimed to be a church but an “executive success” quasi-MLM. Had he done so, it would have been (IMHO) more difficult to go after him.

tl;dr: the US and Germany have different ways of approaching extremist groups and Germany does not make a distinction based on religion, which has brought it into conflict with the US in the past.

189
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 6:11:24am

re: #188 mmmirele

The German government regularly made this argument with the US State Department in the 1990s and 2000s when State would condemn Germany for its treatment of Scientology. As far as the German government is concerned, Scientology is not a religion but a group with an ideology inimical to democracy and needs to be carefully watched.

Chick Corea, as a practicing scientologist, was not allowed to perform at any publicly owned venues (town halls or community centers, etc.), only private ones.

And when I took a job as an English tutor for school children, I had to sign a document declaring that I was not a member of the Church of Scientology.

There was a similar issue until recently with Jehovah’s Witnesses.

190
Eric The Fruit Bat  Feb 28, 2021 • 6:16:09am

re: #186 Nyet

I’d also invite the Rage Furby to do his thing…

For the Rage Furby, heading off to Limbaugh’s grave is a hajj.

191
b.d. (America is Great Again)  Feb 28, 2021 • 6:18:09am

re: #181 Eric The Fruit Bat

Not that we really care…

AP: Rush Limbaugh buried in private cemetery in St. Louis

A private cemetery means that the average Joe can’t visit his grave. Like a Country Club cemetery?

192
Eric The Fruit Bat  Feb 28, 2021 • 6:21:36am

re: #189 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

There was a similar issue until recently with Jehovah’s Witnesses

JW’s are illegal in Russia…

193
Eric The Fruit Bat  Feb 28, 2021 • 6:23:21am

re: #191 b.d. (America is Great Again)

Got me on that one - I would still think that an average palooka would be able to visit a private cemetary.

194
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 6:26:06am

re: #192 Eric The Fruit Bat

JW’s are illegal in Russia…

Like they were in Nazi Germany.

195
Patricia Kayden  Feb 28, 2021 • 6:40:37am

re: #178 Nyet

Thanks. It’s sad that the real culprit never faced justice.

196
sagehen  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:09:26am

re: #188 mmmirele

Because we have a 1st Amendment, we can’t do similar “spying on” organizations which declare themselves to be religious; there has to be a criminal reason for going after a church.

Unless, y’know, Muslims. All kinds of spying at mosques.

197
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:11:12am

Horror films were popular from the start. /

198
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:18:31am

re: #196 sagehen

Unless, y’know, Muslims. All kinds of spying at mosques.

Some would insist that Islam is not a religion, it is a political ideology.

199
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:18:46am

re: #38 ckkatz

By the way, the song is an Israeli song from the 1970’s (post Yom Kippur War) and translates:

In a red dress and two braids,
a lone, small and innocent girl
stood and asked - why?
and all the cannons, and all the soldiers
and all of the adults and all of the wise people,
were ashamed and couldn’t find an answer

and all of the volcanoes and all of the storms
and all of the lions and all of the leopards
and all of the adults and all of the wise people,
were ashamed and couldn’t find an answer

Now I know why it sounded so familiar! I was living in Israel then and all the bus drivers played it on their radios.

200
Belafon  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:22:02am

re: #80 Nyet

All join Brother Locke’s Scryers’ Guild.

[Embedded content]

Think of the fifty of them we have in our flag.

201
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:25:12am

re: #200 Belafon

Think of the fifty of them we have in our flag.

Your flag has fifty stars consisting of three distinct elements, circumscribed by another geometric shape? That’s news to me.

202
Dangerman  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:25:48am

203
Dangerman  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:27:21am

A montage

204
Belafon  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:28:34am

re: #122 Nyet

Wrong. An objective, verifiable fact, not anyone’s opinion. The whole visible stage is not shaped like a rune.

[Embedded content]

Just to be clear, do you also believe the Proud Boys when they say that they’re not actually throwing up a White Power sign?

205
Dangerman  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:28:46am

re: #168 Nyet

That last one is Wendell’s, so the second meaning is built in ;)

Ah
That was pre coffee

206
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:29:11am

re: #204 Belafon

Just to be clear, do you also believe the Proud Boys when they say that they’re not actually throwing up a White Power sign?

Of course not. Why do you ask such silly questions?

207
plansbandc  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:32:43am
208
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:33:54am

Might be good.

Tribes of Europa | Official Trailer | Netflix

209
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:35:03am

re: #202 Dangerman

They are really that fucking dense.

Never even read it and yet insist it cannot be changed.

210
Dangerman  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:36:39am

re: #201 Nyet

Your flag has fifty stars consisting of three distinct elements? That’s news to me.

Its hidden in code

211
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:37:20am

re: #210 Dangerman

Its hidden in code

Only seen by the members of the Cabal.

212
ckkatz  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:41:02am

re: #199 The Pie Overlord!

Now I know why it sounded so familiar! I was living in Israel then and all the bus drivers played it on their radios.

Exactly! The song was part of the Israeli popular movie HaLahaka (1978) and certainly was popular at the time.

Another song from the movie was this one:

אילו ציפורי

הלהקה -7- אילו ציפורים

213
Belafon  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:41:27am

re: #206 Nyet

Of course not. Why do you ask such silly questions?

And why do you not believe them?

214
Dangerman  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:41:45am

re: #211 Nyet

Only seen by the members of the Cabal.

You need these

215
Patricia Kayden  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:42:18am
216
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:42:44am

re: #213 Belafon

And why do you not believe them?

Don’t spam me.

217
Belafon  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:45:20am

re: #216 Nyet

Don’t spam me.

I need to know why you’re not trusting them but think the CPAC people didn’t really create that symbol.

218
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:45:59am

re: #217 Belafon

I need to know why you’re not trusting them but think the CPAC people didn’t really create that symbol.

No connection between the two shown. So don’t spam me with irrelevancies and red herrings.

219
jaunte  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:49:06am
220
ckkatz  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:49:10am

Apropos of nothing…

I love my furniture!

Me and my recliner go way back.

221
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:53:02am

re: #219 jaunte

Known alcoholic insists he’s not drunk.

222
Eventual Carrion  Feb 28, 2021 • 7:56:56am

re: #219 jaunte

[Embedded content]

By definition it is an idol.

223
Belafon  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:01:52am

re: #218 Nyet

No connection between the two shown. So don’t spam me with irrelevancies and red herrings.

The two groups overlap. There’s a massive connection between the two groups and their love of fascism in the US. People from both groups participated and condoned the insurrection on 1/6.

224
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:02:36am

re: #223 Belafon

The two groups overlap. There’s a massive connection between the two groups and their love of fascism in the US. People from both groups participated and condoned the insurrection on 1/6.

Not the groups but the two parts of your question.

225
Belafon  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:03:05am

re: #219 jaunte

[Embedded content]

What say you, Nyet?

226
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:04:07am

re: #225 Belafon

What say you, Nyet?

I say that you don’t seem to have anything useful to add.

227
darthstar  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:06:06am
228
jaunte  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:06:45am

Just found a 50 Lira coin in my SE Texas driveway this morning.

229
Teukka  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:07:33am

re: #204 Belafon

Just to be clear, do you also believe the Proud Boys when they say that they’re not actually throwing up a White Power sign?

Well, that’s an interesting question… The Aryan Brotherhood of Texas is documented using a hand symbol consisting of a raised index finger and raised ring and little fingers (or the reverse), and there is some evidence that other Aryan Brotherhood outfits use ring, little, and index fingers to distinguish them from the Texas flavor.

So we are in the situation where you may have had some edgelording denizens of the chans-and-kuns-that-must-not-be-named that came up with it to rattle the “libs” cages, but that it got a life of its own and has become mainstream among american conservatism in general, which as of late has shown a penchant for edgelording as well. Sort of like the whole QAnon situation, starting like a simple troll on the chans-and-kuns-that-must-not-be-named and getting a hideous life of its own…

230
darthstar  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:07:52am

re: #228 jaunte

Just found a 50 Lira coin in my SE Texas driveway this morning.

I’ve still got a bunch of Lira lying around somewhere from a trip I took to Italy before the Euro.

231
jaunte  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:08:55am

re: #230 darthstar

I can’t believe the Mafia found me already.

232
ipsos  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:13:19am

Watching Kristi Noem on Face the Nation and I want to throw something through my TV screen. What a vile piece of work she is.

233
So Cal Greek Hippie  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:15:08am

re: #228 jaunte

Foreign Money on Display in the Garage

I found these bills cleaning up the house years ago and didn’t quite know what to do with them so now they’re on display in the dartboard

Think they were souvenirs to wife from her parents’ travels but not sure it could have been the wind

234
darthstar  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:15:16am
235
Teukka  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:18:29am

So this scrolled by in my feeds…
The U.S. Public Has Lived With Delusional Realities For Decades [Foreign Policy]

236
Patricia Kayden  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:19:20am
237
SerialUpDinger  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:21:46am

Manzanita in Bloom


The last couple of times I have uploaded and image, a new thread was added shortly thereafter… Testing to see if there is correlation or causation.
Happy Sunday!
238
Belafon  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:25:55am

I had a thought about the minimum wage: we should tell people we either need to raise the minimum wage or abolish factory automation, and people can pay the increase in costs and time that would incur.

239
A hollow voice says NOW drain that swamp!  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:28:31am

re: #139 O say, does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave..

Let’s settle it this way: Someone deliberately built the stage in the shape of the rune. It is unclear if the higher-ups knew what that meant or not; it is very plausible that they are stupid enough not to know and lazy enough not to care. Now can we get back to the great War of Pineapple on Pizza?

Whether it was intentional or not, that stage is a godsend for CPAC. Instead of talking about what was said there and what it means, everyone is arguing about set design. How about: The stage at CPAC looks like a symbol nazis used. It is impossible to say whether this was intentional. Everything they said and did on the stage is so hateful and loathsome that IT DOESN’T MATTER. What the stage looks like changes nothing about their message. Let’s all stop wasting our time.

240
Belafon  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:35:03am

re: #239 A hollow voice says NOW drain that swamp!

Whether it was intentional or not, that stage is a godsend for CPAC. Instead of talking about what was said there and what it means, everyone is arguing about set design. How about: The stage at CPAC looks like a symbol nazis used. It is impossible to say whether this was intentional. Everything they said and did on the stage is so hateful and loathsome that IT DOESN’T MATTER. What the stage looks like changes nothing about their message. Let’s all stop wasting our time.

Azirafel redrew the floor design to include the rune. A lot of people were happy with it, and it puts out evil vibes.

241
A hollow voice says NOW drain that swamp!  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:38:14am

re: #175 jeffreyw

[Embedded content]

Good morning!

Western good morning!

Spring is springing, some places
242
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:39:05am

re: #240 Belafon

Azirafel redrew the floor design to include the rune. A lot of people were happy with it, and it puts out evil vibes.

Yeah OK the dancers made a swastika but the audience couldn’t really see it!

The Producers (1968) - Springtime for Hitler

243
Belafon  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:47:42am

I suspect that, as my brain slowly withers away, that will be the part of Good Omens I remember.

244
jaunte  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:53:07am
245
A hollow voice says NOW drain that swamp!  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:54:59am

re: #224 Nyet

Not the groups but the two parts of your question.

CPAC says their stage isn’t a symbol. The Proud boys say their gesture isn’t a symbol. These two claims seem similar to me.

246
Sherlock Hound  Feb 28, 2021 • 8:55:32am

I’m pessimistic, but Zeynep has some thoughts.

247
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:01:13am

re: #245 A hollow voice says NOW drain that swamp!

CPAC says their stage isn’t a symbol. The Proud boys say their gesture isn’t a symbol. These two claims seem similar to me.

Did I use CPAC’s assertion in my argument?

248
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:02:30am
249
John Hughes  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:06:55am

re: #158 mmmirele

But are those tuits round or not?

250
Acemarilllion  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:13:20am

re: #208 Nyet

It’s pretty awful.

251
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:16:03am
252
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:21:18am

re: #251 The Pie Overlord!

Well, they did change as the votes were counted.

//

253
ckkatz  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:26:30am

re: #249 John Hughes

But are those tuits round or not?

Back in the 1980’s one of my work colleagues was an Israeli. One year, someone gave him a calendar with pictures of chimpanzees in presumed office settings. Each picture had the chimpanzee talking about needing to “Get a Round Tuit”. It fell to me to explain the pictures to him.

I suspect that he had put some time and effort into researching this before he asked. Because I got a rather stunned look from him when I finished explaining the context and meaning.

254
The Pie Overlord!  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:34:54am
255
Teukka  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:36:08am
256
sagehen  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:43:34am

re: #234 darthstar

Which of the white nationalist groups wears Hawaiian print shirts again?]

Boogaloo Boys.

257
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:44:33am

Twitter in its usual style.

258
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:47:37am

Yeah, too late, fuckers.

Notably, they did not revoke Limonov’s status.

Furthermore, the hate speech provision hasn’t been consistently applied in other cases, including in Russia. Eduard Limonov was granted prisoner of conscience status in 2011 after being arrested for opposition activities.

Limonov previously founded the National Bolshevik Party, which wedded Nazi and Marxist ideologies. Even worse, Limonov actively supported the genocide of Muslims in Bosnia, at one point appearing in a video with Radovan Karadžić — who was later convicted of that genocide — while shooting a machine gun onto the streets of Srebrenica. Just like with Navalny, none of this information was a secret at the time of Limonov’s prisoner of conscience designation.

259
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:50:50am

She’s also tankie scum.

260
Dread Pirate Ron  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:54:46am

re: #234 darthstar

Which of the white nationalist groups wears Hawaiian print shirts again?

The Haole contingent.

261
jeffreyw  Feb 28, 2021 • 9:57:21am
“poison the well of bipartisanship”

They have been poisoning the well for a couple of centuries here in the USA. Since The Last Guy, they are no longer doing it in the dead of night. It’s all out in the daylight now because they know they need to inject a bigger dose.
Like the guy in Princess Bride, we have all become somewhat immune - they need that firehose.

262
jeffreyw  Feb 28, 2021 • 10:03:56am
263
John Hughes  Feb 28, 2021 • 10:05:03am

re: #258 Nyet

As I’ve said before the problem is that the whole idea of a prisoner of conscience is stupid.

It means “someone who is unjustly imprisoned who doesn’t offend quakers”.

Who gives a shit about the”offend quakers” bit. Amnesty should be defending the unjustly imprisoned, not trying to judge their “purity”.

264
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 10:06:02am

re: #263 John Hughes

Agreed.

265
DodgerFan1988  Feb 28, 2021 • 10:06:04am
266
Nyet  Feb 28, 2021 • 10:07:33am

re: #265 DodgerFan1988

He should make a 6h video where he interviews Dr. Shiva about that. That will be convincing.

267
Belafon  Feb 28, 2021 • 10:10:34am

re: #265 DodgerFan1988

Thinking about this related to the Atlantic article above.

268
mmmirele  Feb 28, 2021 • 10:18:42am

Whenever I see “Goya” trending, it’s never about the great Spanish artist, but about that company with the Trump-worshiping CEO. Dammit.

269
🌹UOJB!  Feb 28, 2021 • 10:24:35am

re: #214 Dangerman

You need these

[Embedded content]

Embedded Image

Memories of Poly Styrene and the boys…

X-Ray Spex - Oh Bondage! Up Yours!

270
mmmirele  Feb 28, 2021 • 10:26:35am

re: #263 John Hughes

As I’ve said before the problem is that the whole idea of a prisoner of conscience is stupid.

It means “someone who is unjustly imprisoned who doesn’t offend quakers”.

Who gives a shit about the”offend quakers” bit. Amnesty should be defending the unjustly imprisoned, not trying to judge their “purity”.

Just going to remind people that the earliest Quakers in the American Colonies had no problem holding slaves. It took an outrageous guy named Benjamin Lay, who was given to theatrical acts of protest at Quaker Meetings, to awaken the consciences of other Quakers to the grave evil of slavery. Lay, who was born in Britain, first went to Barbados where he offended the hell out of the locals who profited greatly from slavery. So he picked up and emigrated to the Pennsylvania colony in 1731, and until he died in 1759, he was a right pain in the ass to the wealthy and self assured Quakers of the regional Meetings.

en.wikipedia.org

Modern Quakers for the most part tend to reflect John Woolman, an anti-slavery Quaker of the next generation. I’d like to see some more offensive Quakers out there!

271
Decatur Deb  Feb 28, 2021 • 10:33:34am

re: #270 mmmirele

We have a Quaker. A Quaker. (Town of 70,000 pop.)

272
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 28, 2021 • 10:36:12am

re: #271 Decatur Deb

We have a Quaker. A Quaker. (Town of 70,000 pop.)

They must be lonely.

/

273
Decatur Deb  Feb 28, 2021 • 10:38:25am

re: #272 Eclectic Cyborg

They must be lonely.

/

He gets all the good Quaker gigs—hospital chaplain, etc. He never explained who he chaplains for; maybe Spring breakers on their way to tear up Panama City Beach.

274
steve_davis  Feb 28, 2021 • 11:29:02am

re: #178 Nyet

Plus dozens of guards at different times and in different places testified that Marchenko ran the engine. In fact, Nikolay Shalayev, who usually appears in the survivors’ testimonies together with Ivan (usually as “Ivan and Nikolay” or “Ivan and Mykola”) also testified about Marchenko.

As far as the false identification testimonies… I’ll quote from what I wrote elsewhere. Here it should be noted that we have an intersection of two problems at once here: the false memory problem, which was largely unrecognized at the time (cf. Satanic panic) and the very problematic area of visual identification, especially identification after decades after the fact.

One or the leading experts in false memory research, Elizabeth Loftus, chose not to testify for the defence (she explained that due to her Jewish background the personal cost would be too high for her), but she recommended her acquaintance, the memory expert Willem Wagenaar to testify in Jerusalem. He did, and then wrote a meticulously detailed study of witness identifications in the case, Identifying Ivan. A case study in legal psychology (1988, Harvard University Press), a detailed summary of which with numerous quotes you can read in the appendix at the last link.

Basically, there were only 9 survivors who claimed to recognize Demjanjuk during the official interrogations. Whereas there were at least 15 (including one survivor who lived in the camp the longest, knew Ivan well and was forced to help building the gas chambers) who either did not recognize Demjanjuk or said he was not Ivan.

The first two witnesses who testified in May of 1976, Turowski and Goldfarb, did not recognize Demjanjuk at first. The third witness to testify in May, Rosenberg, said the face was familiar but literally “declined” to “identify with certainty”.

All other witnesses were interrogated from September 1976 on, which is significant, since on each August 2, the day of the uprising, the Treblinka surviors in Israel used to meet in Tel Aviv and there’s no chance the shocking “discovery” that Ivan was alive was not discussed there. All the subsequent positive identifications came from the Israeli survivors.

The fourth positive witness, Czarny, failed to identify Demjanjuk on the first try. Boraks and Lindwasser identified him with certainty. Epstein used phrases like “this is how I remember him”, “reminds me very strongly of” - so no certainty, and he also falsely identified Nikolay (Shaleyev) on an unrelated photo. Levkowitch made a positive identification, Rajchman took half an hour to reach the conclusion of “fairly certain”.

So only three witnesses - Boraks, Levkowitch and Lindwasser - identified Demjanjuk immediately and with certainty. Unfortunately, their testimonies cannot be shown to be independent since they were late and it had to be investigated what they knew before their identifications from the other survivors. However Levkowitch did not testify during the trial (her testimony was withdrawn), Lindwasser died before it and Boraks’ memory more or less completely failed him during the trial, so the issue remained uninvestigated - but most probably their testimonies were not indepedent from those of Turowski, Goldfarb and Rosenberg. Due to deaths and for other reasons only 5 witnesses testified in the Jerusalem court (Rosenberg, Czarny, Boraks, Epstein, and Rajchman).

During the trial itself the witnesses who were either not completely sure during the first identifications sessions or did not recognize him at all at first, suddenly claimed they recognize him with complete and utter certainty. Which only shows that such confidence is not worth much. They simply convinced themselves with time that they got the right man (and Wagenaar explains the psychological mechanisms of it happening).

Aside from the problems with the witnesses themselves there were huge problems with identification procedures which were irredeemably flawed (due to the investigators either completely untrained or inadequately trained in such procedures). The photo spreads were completely wrong and biased (e.g. there was no one remotely resembling Demjanjuk among the foils, which made him stand out), the investigators were leading the witnesses, different albums with the same person were shown to the same witnesses (a no-no), the issue of the indepedence of the identifications was not even touched upon, the crucial negative results were not systematically gathered, and so on.

Demjanjuk’s official name in the concentration camp system was “Iwan Demjanjuk”, with slight phonetically almost identical variations thereof appearing in various documents.

There’s not the slightest documentary hint of Demjanjuk ever having been to Treblinka even once, not to mention for a prolonged time. As opposed to his stay in Sobibor, about which there’s a wealth of documentation.

His identification as Ivan the Terrible stems purely from identifications from very few witnesses discussed above.

Ivan the Terrible’s actual name is established through an impressive number of testimonies - at least 38 of his Trawniki colleagues (perhaps most importantly, by Nikolai Shaleyev, another gas chamber operator, who is usually mentioned in the survivor testimonies together with Ivan) as well as other people who knew him. His name was Ivan Marchenko and unlike Demjanjuk he was born in 1911 in Dnepropetrovsk. His last traces disappear in 1945 in Yugoslavia.

Marchenko was neither a phantom, nor an alias. He was an actual person whose daughter was in fact still alive in the 1990s.

So we know that:

- Ivan the Terrible was Ivan Marchenko, a real and entirely different person from Demjanjuk.

- Demjanjuk used his real name in the camps and thus couldn’t have used an additional alias since he was “Demjanjuk” in the official paperwork.

(This has to be mentioned, since there’s an argument going around that Demjanjuk specifying his mother’s maiden name as “Marchenko” in the US paperwork is somehow significant. It’s anything but. Whatever the maiden name of his mother, it was JD and not she that was accused, and his name was not Marchenko, so it’s hard to see the relevance. And the maiden name of his mother is actually Tabachuk - he forgot it and wrote in one of the most popular Ukrainian surnames (think “Smith” or “Jones”). The “argument” thus quickly turns out to be a total dud.)

This settles the issue and completely trumps the weak witness identification evidence.

I should note here that the German court that convicted Demjanuk positively excluded the possibility of him having been Ivan the Terrible - it specifically addressed this issue in the verdict.

Just out of curiousity, is Marchenko basically “son of Mark” in Ukrainian, and is Mark a patron saint there? I always wonder why particular surnames become extremely popular. For instance, as I recall, my surname stems from the Welsh all being kind of mass baptized somewhere along the line and taking names reflecting David, king of the Jews, to demonstrate that.

275
John Hughes  Feb 28, 2021 • 1:36:25pm

re: #274 steve_davis

Just out of curiousity, is Marchenko basically “son of Mark”

Damn, learn to summarize, man.


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