Tom Jones: Tiny Desk (Home) Concert

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I gotta be honest, I was never a huge Tom Jones fan growing up. But this Tiny Desk Concert with a minimal quartet is absolutely gripping. Watch out for the ending.

The Tiny Desk is working from home for the foreseeable future. Introducing NPR Music’s Tiny Desk (home) concerts, bringing you performances from across the country and the world. It’s the same spirit — stripped-down sets, an intimate setting — just a different space.

Bob Boilen | June 7, 2021
We’re publishing this Tom Jones Tiny Desk (home) concert on his 81st birthday. It’s a poignant moment in the life of a singer whose career spans 56 years and more than 100 million records sold; the passing of his wife, Linda, in 2016 after 59 years of marriage was devastating and resulted in the longest break between recordings of his career. But now Tom Jones is back with a new album, Surrounded By Time, and ready to share his deepest feelings, channeling songs by others with a voice still rich and muscular. It’s a triumphant return to the Tiny Desk (his first visit was in 2009), and it’s the first time he’s performed these songs since recording them last year.

The songs on the album (and for this Tiny Desk) deal so eloquently with time and aging. Tom Jones sings Bob Dylan’s “One More Cup Of Coffee” and going “down to the valley below.” Then, he takes on Malvina Reynolds’ folk tune “There’s No Hole In My Head” and turns it into a fierce statement about being yourself.

When Tom Jones was 33, and after one of his infamous shows in Las Vegas, jazz composer Bobby Cole presented him with the song “I’m Growing Old.” With lyrics including “I’m growing dimmer in the eyes / I’m growing fainter in my talk / I’m growing deeper in my sighs / I’m growing slower in my walk.” Tom Jones didn’t feel old enough to do it justice, but he held on to it. His performance here brought me to tears and is well worth the wait.

SET LIST
• “One More Cup of Coffee”
• “There’s No Hole In My Head”
• “I’m Getting Old”

MUSICIANS
• Tom Jones: vocals
• Ethan Johns: guitar
• Nick Pini: bass
• Stephanie Ward: keys
• Jeremy Stacey: drums

CREDITS
• Video: Dan Shipton, Ross Nicholson
• Audio: Dom Monks
• Special thanks to Black Skull Creative

TINY DESK TEAM
• Producer: Bob Boilen
• Video Producer: Maia Stern
• Audio Mastering: Josh Rogosin
• Associate Producer: Bobby Carter
• Tiny Production Team: Kara Frame, Gabrielle Pierre
• Executive Producer: Keith Jenkins
• Senior VP, Programming: Anya Grundmann

#nprmusic #tinydesk #tomjones

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201 comments
1
The Pie Overlord!  Jun 7, 2021 • 6:14:22pm

This sad asshole is so desperate for attention he’s trolling a store whose primary clientele includes cancer patients.

2
JOE 🥓  Jun 7, 2021 • 6:21:28pm
3
Dread Pirate Ron  Jun 7, 2021 • 6:25:07pm

And they are the ones who put him in office.

4
Dread Pirate Ron  Jun 7, 2021 • 6:25:24pm

re: #2 JOE 🥓

5
JOE 🥓  Jun 7, 2021 • 6:26:32pm
6
Dread Pirate Ron  Jun 7, 2021 • 6:26:32pm
7
The GOP is a terrorist organization  Jun 7, 2021 • 6:39:24pm

Why is Garland protecting Trump? First the OLC memo on Mueller, and now this!

8
JOE 🥓  Jun 7, 2021 • 6:41:19pm
9
jaunte  Jun 7, 2021 • 6:50:17pm
10
gocart mozart  Jun 7, 2021 • 6:53:14pm
11
gocart mozart  Jun 7, 2021 • 6:53:36pm
12
jaunte  Jun 7, 2021 • 6:54:18pm

@JoyceWhiteVance

Really at a loss to see how ugly comments about a woman who alleged Trump raped her decades before he became president were made “within the scope of his employment.” Also at a loss to figure out why my tax $ should be used for Trump’s defense.

13
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Jun 7, 2021 • 7:02:09pm

re: #10 gocart mozart

14
The Pie Overlord!  Jun 7, 2021 • 7:02:19pm

Wingnuts are losing their shit because MVP gave away cookies AND THEY DIDN’T GET ANY.

15
retired cynic  Jun 7, 2021 • 7:02:33pm

re: #12 jaunte

Not sure what Merrick Garland is doing in there.

16
gocart mozart  Jun 7, 2021 • 7:05:06pm
17
The GOP is a terrorist organization  Jun 7, 2021 • 7:05:26pm

re: #15 retired cynic

Not sure what Merrick Garland is doing in there.

I don’t either. This is astonishing, and frustrating!

18
jaunte  Jun 7, 2021 • 7:12:40pm
19
sagehen  Jun 7, 2021 • 7:15:54pm
20
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Jun 7, 2021 • 7:22:35pm

The HBO Max Harley Quinn series makes me laugh out loud at least a couple of times an episode, and they’re only 23 minutes long.

DC Universe’s Harley Quinn - Official Trailer (2019) Kaley Cuoco

21
JOE 🥓  Jun 7, 2021 • 7:35:47pm
22
jaunte  Jun 7, 2021 • 7:42:21pm
23
The GOP is a terrorist organization  Jun 7, 2021 • 7:52:26pm

Paul Butler on Merrick Garland:

As a proud Justice Department alumnus, I respect that Garland is an institutionalist. The most important way he can restore confidence in the institution is not with platitudes about how much more integrity Biden has than Trump, true as that is. Garland should uphold the values of the Justice Department by exposing the misdeeds of the previous administration and ensuring accountability.

Opinion: The best way for Garland to protect the Justice Department is to stop defending his predecessor

24
JOE 🥓  Jun 7, 2021 • 7:54:02pm

I’m shocked that they haven’t gotten to the point that they’re searching for drops of soy sauce or sriracha on the ballots!

25
The GOP is a terrorist organization  Jun 7, 2021 • 7:56:47pm

re: #24 JOE 🥓

I’m shocked that they haven’t gotten to the point that they’re searching for drops of soy sauce or sriracha on the ballots!

The state of Arizona should bill “Cyber Ninjas” for the cost of replacing the voting machines they damaged.

26
The Ghost of a Flea  Jun 7, 2021 • 8:00:58pm

QAnon just keeps following the natural progression towards the headwaters of all conspiracy.

27
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Jun 7, 2021 • 8:03:07pm

re: #24 JOE 🥓

I’m shocked that they haven’t gotten to the point that they’re searching for drops of soy sauce or sriracha on the ballots!

[Embedded content]

If anyone still has some Quadro Trackers lying around, I know just the marks to sell them to.

28
JOE 🥓  Jun 7, 2021 • 8:08:03pm

Newsmax turned down embattled Republican Matt Gaetz for a job -spokesperson

Conservative media outlet Newsmax, a favorite of former President Donald Trump’s, rejected embattled Republican U.S. Representative Matt Gaetz’s request for a job, a spokesperson for the website said on Monday.

reuters.com

29
Dopamine Fish  Jun 7, 2021 • 8:10:40pm

re: #14 The Pie Overlord!

Wingnuts are losing their shit because MVP gave away cookies AND THEY DIDN’T GET ANY.

They should come to the dark side. WE have cookies.

30
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Jun 7, 2021 • 8:10:44pm

Nigeria’s President is the same kind of person as our loser former President.

The Real, Petty Reason This President Ordered a Nationwide Twitter Ban (The Daily Beast)

31
EPR-radar  Jun 7, 2021 • 8:24:01pm

re: #15 retired cynic

Not sure what Merrick Garland is doing in there.

I’m thinking that he’s a Republican and Republicans cannot be trusted. Period, full stop.

32
The GOP is a terrorist organization  Jun 7, 2021 • 8:26:09pm

Elie Mystal’s take on Garland:

Why is Garland’s DOJ blocking the full release of the memo? Why is it running this kind of interference for Barr’s Justice Department? Well, because at core, Garland (like so many in the Biden administration) is an institutionalist. This kind of appeal defends the integrity of the Department of Justice. It says the institution does not lie to the court (even if the previous administration included a cadre of professional liars). It says the institution does not provide advice on how to cover up the crimes of the president (even if that’s precisely what Barr did).

It’s important to understand that the credibility of the DOJ took a major hit during the Barr regime. There are people throughout the Justice Department who desperately want that credibility back. This kind of appeal is a fairly normal move from people who think institutional credibility must be defended at all costs. Garland’s DOJ is not looking backward at the lies, misinformation, and corruption of Barr’s tenure. They’re looking forward and are worried about the ability of the institution to function if its lawyers are afraid that their internal memos might one day become public. One way to build back institutional credibility is to defend the actions of the previous administration, even when those actions are questionable. That’s how institutionalists think.

Why Is Merrick Garland’s DOJ Carrying Water for Bill Barr?

33
BlueSpotinAL  Jun 7, 2021 • 8:26:20pm

Pic of the QAnon guy who now claims he was misled:

34
The GOP is a terrorist organization  Jun 7, 2021 • 8:28:04pm

re: #31 EPR-radar

I’m thinking that he’s a Republican and Republicans cannot be trusted. Period, full stop.

One thing to remember about Garland is that he’s a pretty conservative guy. He’s not a Federalist Society hack, but many of his decisions were considered right-leaning while he was a judge, and that was the reason Obama chose him for the Supreme Court in 2016.

He’s a good man, but right now, he’s the wrong man for DOJ.

35
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Jun 7, 2021 • 8:47:06pm

re: #1 The Pie Overlord!

This sad asshole is so desperate for attention he’s trolling a store whose primary clientele includes cancer patients.

He’s done this before. He has a YouTube channel where he uploads his maskgression.

36
EPR-radar  Jun 7, 2021 • 8:50:48pm

re: #34 The GOP is a terrorist organization

One thing to remember about Garland is that he’s a pretty conservative guy. He’s not a Federalist Society hack, but many of his decisions were considered right-leaning while he was a judge, and that was the reason Obama chose him for the Supreme Court in 2016.

He’s a good man, but right now, he’s the wrong man for DOJ.

I have had it up to here with D presidents appointing Republicans to important positions like SecDef, AG and FBI director. That shit has got to stop.

IMO no conservative/Republican can be trusted to go after crimes perpetrated by another conservative/Republican because that contradicts the only real tenet of conservatism: an in group deserves to be above the law and an out group deserves to only be a target of the law.

37
retired cynic  Jun 7, 2021 • 8:59:25pm

re: #36 EPR-radar

It’s hard to disagree with that.

38
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 7, 2021 • 8:59:26pm

How Liberal is Merrick Garland?

“But Garland deferred similarly to federal agencies during the presidency of George W. Bush, irking many liberals with a 2003 ruling that denied Guantánamo detainees judicial review (later overturned by the Supreme Court) and with a string of pro-police rulings under Presidents Bill Clinton, Bush and Obama”

39
ckkatz  Jun 7, 2021 • 9:37:24pm

Yay Dystopia!

If you own an Amazon Echo or Ring camera, on June 8th, Amazon will be turning on ‘Sidewalk’, its wireless network.

As I understand it ‘Sidewalk’ tunnels through your internet connection to Amazon servers. It then connects with other Amazon devices through Bluetooth and an additional longer ranged protocol. Note that these connected devices are owned by others.

What this means is that Amazon devices set up a network of nearby devices and then connect through your internet to their own servers. There has apparently been little information from Amazon as to what they are going to allow to connect to ‘Sidewalk’, and why. But, although you pay for their data usage, you have no say, or even knowledge, as to what is being sent through your internet connection.

At this point, ‘Sidewalk’ is an ‘opt-out’ ‘feature’.

There’s an eyebrow-raising technology buried inside millions of Amazon Echo smart speakers and Ring security cameras. They have the ability to make a new kind of wireless network called Sidewalk that shares a slice of your home Internet connection with your neighbors’ devices.

And on Tuesday, Amazon is switching Sidewalk on — for everyone.

I’m digging into my settings to turn it off. Sidewalk raises more red flags than a marching band parade: Is it secure enough to be activated in so many homes? Are we helping Amazon build a vast network that can be used for more surveillance? And why didn’t Amazon ask us to opt-in before activating a capability lying dormant in our devices?

I recommend you opt out of Sidewalk, too, until we get much better answers to these questions.

Amazon is about to share your Internet connection with neighbors. Here’s how to turn it off.
washingtonpost.com

40
William Lewis  Jun 7, 2021 • 9:57:31pm

re: #39 ckkatz

Yay Dystopia!

If you own an Amazon Echo or Ring camera, on June 8th, Amazon will be turning on ‘Sidewalk’, its wireless network.

As I understand it ‘Sidewalk’ tunnels through your internet connection to Amazon servers. It then connects with other Amazon devices through Bluetooth and an additional longer ranged protocol. Note that these connected devices are owned by others.

What this means is that Amazon devices set up a network of nearby devices and then connect through your internet to their own servers. There has apparently been little information from Amazon as to what they are going to allow to connect to ‘Sidewalk’, and why. But, although you pay for their data usage, you have no say, or even knowledge, as to what is being sent through your internet connection.

At this point, ‘Sidewalk’ is an ‘opt-out’ ‘feature’.

Amazon is about to share your Internet connection with neighbors. Here’s how to turn it off.
washingtonpost.com

Dollars to donuts, after this fuss dies down in 6 months it’ll become an automatic feature that you CAN’T turn off.

41
ckkatz  Jun 7, 2021 • 10:05:55pm

re: #40 William Lewis

Dollars to donuts, after this fuss dies down in 6 months it’ll become an automatic feature that you CAN’T turn off.

Yup! And probably not even mentioned in the manuals and other docs.

Iirc, there was a device ?echo? that was recording and transmitting everything it heard back to the home servers until a journalist publicly busted the company.

42
mmmirele  Jun 7, 2021 • 10:08:59pm

The Southern Baptist Convention is doing its damndest to be en fuego when its convention starts in Nashville next Sunday.

First we have the letter by Russell Moore (NOT A NICE GUY) that got leaked, in which Moore said his two biggest problems in the SBC were the sexual abuse and the racism. (I’m really really condensing it down.) That led to a firestorm.

Newly leaked letter details allegations that Southern Baptist leaders mishandled sex abuse claims

washingtonpost.com

Then we have this gem from D. August “Augie” Boto, former attorney for the SBC and former member of the SBC Executive Committee:

Rachael Denhollander, who was one of the victims of Larry Nasser and who was asked to leave her Southern Baptist church in Louisville when she asked why the SBC had allowed C.J. Mahaney’s church in, when Mahaney was/is credibly accused of covering up child sexual abuse, she dropped a truth bomb about Augie Boto:

The thread within the tweet is hair-raising. Augie Boto got himself confirmed as an expert on a convicted pedophile’s appeal, when he wasn’t anywhere near remotely connected to the case. It’s very weird and strange.

Anyway, expect more fires to rage out of control this week into next. The two candidates for next SBC president are Mike Stone, a pastor from somewhere and Al Mohler. Both are truly execrable candidates:

* Stone is a protege of Paige Patterson, who got canned from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary a few years back for covering up a rape at SWBTS, then it turns out he dropped millions in donations on fake Dead Sea Scrolls, and finally, he took off with SWBTS’ mailing list and had donors redirect money to *his* nonprofit (this came out in May). Augie Boto is also part of this cabal.

* Al Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, is a proponent of the Calvinization of the Southern Baptists. He also thinks women should sit down and shut up. He’s also a culture warrior—last week he was coming unglued about yoga in Alabama public schools, and something involving the kids’ show “Blue’s Clues” and the Kohl’s Department Store chain. The aforementioned Russell Moore (not a nice person, he has said he is in favor of patriarchy) is one of Mohler’s proteges.

The SBC was setting itself up to be a discussion of how Critical Race Theory (CRT) was invading the churches OMG and what about these women who won’t shut up? But now, because of the documents which have been leaked, maybe it’s going to turn into a reckoning on the SBC’s completely shitty handling of sexual abuse.

To conclude—I don’t know this woman’s full backstory, but apparently her father was (a) a sexual abuser who (b) attended the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville and (c) was protected by men within the SBC. She says she’s going to be there in Nashville to confront the SBC leadership. I wish her the best of luck.

43
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Jun 7, 2021 • 10:11:51pm

re: #8 JOE 🥓

DeSadist lied, who’d’ve guessed?

Thread, four tweets.

44
JOE 🥓  Jun 7, 2021 • 10:23:56pm

re: #42 mmmirele

I honestly don’t know which right wing church I despise more—Southern Fried Baptists, ASSembies of Gawd, Lutheran Wisconsin Synod or the Presbyterian Church in America…

45
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Jun 7, 2021 • 10:34:06pm

re: #44 JOE 🥓

I honestly don’t know which right wing church I despise more—Southern Fried Baptists, ASSembies of Gawd, Lutheran Wisconsin Synod or the Presbyterian Church in America…

Well, the Catholic Church gets all the good press on sexual assaults, but most denominations (not just right-wing ones) have a problem with that.

46
Targetpractice  Jun 8, 2021 • 12:25:28am

re: #40 William Lewis

Dollars to donuts, after this fuss dies down in 6 months it’ll become an automatic feature that you CAN’T turn off.

With little to no warning, at which point somebody will sound the alarm and Amazon will promise to patch back in the option…eventually.

47
Dread Pirate Ron  Jun 8, 2021 • 12:54:10am

re: #44 JOE 🥓

I honestly don’t know which right wing church I despise more—Southern Fried Baptists, ASSembies of Gawd, Lutheran Wisconsin Synod or the Presbyterian Church in America…

I almost married an AoG/Pentacostal woman. They be crazy.

48
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 8, 2021 • 1:26:57am

re: #47 Dread Pirate Ron

I almost married an AoG/Pentacostal woman. They be crazy.

I was once ready to marry a young woman who later went off to join the Baptists, went full-on Creationist and married a Border Militiaman.

49
nowherenorth2  Jun 8, 2021 • 2:04:56am

News from very north new york

northcountrynow.com

So the former mayor of my town was busted for drugs. Like went on a little chase and what not. He was charged a 150 dollar fine and 93 dollar surcharge.
The da attempts to explain the reasoning here.
It is a joke. Dude had privileges the rest of us folk do not have. Like he went to rehab right off the bat. Most people here do not have that luxury.
On top of that there is belief he caused alot of planned drug busts to be stopped.
He was a former sheriff and chief of police.

This is the same town where the cop got property damage or whatever and he kept slamming the door into a vehicle during a police search warrant.

Also. Super red county and in stefanik district. On the national front, stefanik thinks we can unilaterally open the Canadian border.
Have fun with that I figure because the akwasasne mohawk reservation has a say about that in this area due to owning Cornwall island.

50
Dread Pirate Ron  Jun 8, 2021 • 2:05:17am
51
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 8, 2021 • 2:32:21am

re: #50 Dread Pirate Ron

Dear Fox News: Why are you silencing the voices of law enforcement? Every word in this video is spoken by a police officer.

What are you scared of?

It is inconsistent with their overall narrative and ideology.

52
Targetpractice  Jun 8, 2021 • 2:52:41am

re: #50 Dread Pirate Ron

[Embedded content]

“BLUE LIVES MATTER! LIBERALS HATE COPS! SUPPORT THE POLICE!!!”

“A bunch of Capital Police were attacked and injured by rioters on 1/6.”

*crickets*

53
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 3:23:40am
Michael Bender writes in Frankly, We Did Win This Election that Donald Trump “held back on focusing his firepower on Joe Biden during the primary stage of the election because he was convinced that the Democratic Party was scheming to switch out now president Biden for a different candidate—such as Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama—over the summer,” Vanity Fair reports.

The source of this conspiracy theory was Dick Morris, a former Clinton White House adviser who was “quietly advising Trump” last year.

“Dick Morris told Trump that Biden was too old and too prone to gaffes to be the nominee. Others said Fox News anchor Sean Hannity expressed concern that Biden would collapse under a sustained attack from Trump.”

Similar to what a lot of people thought re tfg himself in 2016

Dick morris is a loon
We knew about Sean
Michelle Obama, yeah bandied about , but for reals?
And clinton redux? Wow.
just simply ‘switch out’…cause you know that’s what they would do
To base even some of your actual strategy on this kind of thinking….amateurs, idiots, gullible, delusional.
losers

54
Dopamine Fish  Jun 8, 2021 • 3:35:28am

re: #47 Dread Pirate Ron

I almost married an AoG/Pentacostal woman. They be crazy.

That’s the background I came from. Can confirm.

55
Patricia Kayden  Jun 8, 2021 • 3:44:49am
56
sagehen  Jun 8, 2021 • 4:36:06am
57
steve_davis  Jun 8, 2021 • 4:39:41am

re: #47 Dread Pirate Ron

I almost married an AoG/Pentacostal woman. They be crazy.

I’m assuming assembly of god pentacostal means speaking in tongues and the whole book of acts. I know a couple pentecostals from work. I’m converting one of them gradually to Anglicanism, and the other is church of christ, which means no hollering the jib-jab in church.

58
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 8, 2021 • 4:53:33am

Live camera from Nátthagi valley:

Geldingadalir Volcano, Iceland - Nátthagi camera

Everybody’s favorite glacial erratic boulder was still holding back the lava (in the right side of the dry pond) as of 0:03:00 in the video. But if you scroll back to that time (see the clock in the lower right of the video) you can see fast moving lava coming in from the right. Then over the next couple of hours the lava rushes in front of the erratic, creating quite a bit of smoke and steam (around 5:30 in the video)… then if you forward to present time the lava has pretty covered the floor of the pond, and the brave boulder is hard to spot, barely peeking its head above the lava.

Next target: the other glacial erratic, which is about 50 meters closer to the camera location than the one in the pond bottom.

I suspect it will take at least a month of lava flowing over the ridges high up to fill in the lowest part of Nátthagi valley. Then the lava has a few meters high ridge to climb, to finally get to the road on the shore. My guess is that if the eruption keeps up the current rate of lava flow then by the end of summer lava will reach the ocean.

59
jeffreyw  Jun 8, 2021 • 5:42:41am

YouTube

Good morning!

60
lawhawk  Jun 8, 2021 • 5:42:47am

Woke up this morning to learn that a bunch of major sites were down due to fastly cloud services going down. Looks like service has been restored.

Meanwhile, the NYC Law Department, which handles legal matters for the City, was hacked and internal services were down. FBI are investigating that too. So far, the City doesn’t think hackers got any sensitive information, but they’re continuing to investigate that aspect.

61
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 8, 2021 • 5:59:27am

re: #60 lawhawk

Woke up this morning to learn that a bunch of major sites were down due to fastly cloud services going down. Looks like service has been restored.

Reminds me of the old joke:

“If buildings were built the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization.”

62
Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:03:28am
63
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:12:35am
Top federal intelligence agencies failed to adequately warn law enforcement officials before the Jan. 6 riot that pro-Trump extremists were threatening violence, including plans to ‘storm the Capitol,’ infiltrate its tunnel system and ‘bring guns,’ according to a new report by two Senate committees that outlines large-scale failures that contributed to the deadly assault,” the New York Times reports.

“An FBI memo on Jan. 5 warning of people traveling to Washington for ‘war’ at the Capitol never made its way to top law enforcement officials.”

Politico: “Capitol security officials tracking threats of violence on Jan. 6 saw social media posts as early as late December 2020 about a plot to breach the complex — complete with maps of the building’s tunnels and explicit threats of violence against members of Congress.”

Remember “bin Laden determined to strike in US.” ?
Whose watch was that on, I forget

64
lawhawk  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:16:39am

ProPublica published a huge trove of information about the taxes (lack of) paid by billionaires like Bezos, Buffet, and others, and it’s eye opening as to the sheer amount of money they haven’t been required to pay because the tax code is gamed to favor them, while the burden falls to everyone else.

The problem is also that most people polled don’t want to change one of the big reasons that those billionaires were able to pay such low taxes in the first place: taxation on unrealized gains.

65
lawhawk  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:18:52am

Release the Medusa.

66
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:23:34am

re: #64 lawhawk

ProPublica published a huge trove of information about the taxes (lack of) paid by billionaires like Bezos, Buffet, and others, and it’s eye opening as to the sheer amount of money they haven’t been required to pay because the tax code is gamed to favor them, while the burden falls to everyone else.

[Embedded content]

This lays to waste the argument that “the rich” pay their fair share.
They pay more dollars, clearly.
They do not pay their fair progressive effective taxation percentage

67
JOE 🥓  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:33:12am

re: #64 lawhawk

The problem is also that most people polled don’t want to change one of the big reasons that those billionaires were able to pay such low taxes in the first place: taxation on unrealized gains.

Thanks to the Republican 24/7 Bullshit Machine that brainwashes the marks into believing the Supply Side Lafferite bullshit!

68
Belafon  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:33:27am

re: #55 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

I’ll worry about these kinds of movies predicting the future when I either build Jarvis or I start turning green when I get angry.

69
JOE 🥓  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:34:45am

re: #55 Patricia Kayden

Reminds me of Frank Zappa’s Cheepnis!

ZAPPA - Cheepnis

70
lawhawk  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:35:33am

re: #66 Dangerman

Think of it this way, if you’re in the middle class, you’re likely paying about 15% effective tax rate. These trillionaires and billionaires are paying less than 1%.

Getting an absolute minimum 15% tax (or better yet, 30% tax), would help restore fairness to system for those in the top tax bracket.

71
Belafon  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:40:58am

… This week’s special election in New Mexico’s 1st congressional district is part of a larger trend that shows us that if President Joe Biden remains as popular as he is now, Democrats have a fighting chance to maintain House control…

Democrats seem to be doing 2 points to 5 points better than you’d expect in a neutral political environment, depending on whether you look at all special elections involving at least one Democrat and Republican or those taking place with only one Democrat and one Republican.

This 2 to 5 point Democratic advantage matches pretty much what we saw in the national congressional generic ballot. It is also pretty much identical to the results we witnessed in last year’s election. Biden won by 4.5 points nationally, and Democrats were victorious in the national House vote by about 3 points.

72
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:41:38am

re: #1 The Pie Overlord!

This sad asshole is so desperate for attention he’s trolling a store whose primary clientele includes cancer patients.

Sad asshole also has a criminal record.

maricopapublicrecords.com

73
Belafon  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:42:31am
74
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:48:48am

re: #64 lawhawk

The problem is also that most people polled don’t want to change one of the big reasons that those billionaires were able to pay such low taxes in the first place: taxation on unrealized gains.

This will be an issue until we change the definition of income or create some taxation based on something other than income

Unrealized gains do have economic power …especially as borrowing leverage/collateral for the wealthy.

but they are by definition not income
And they can reverse/ disappear quickly

Maybe if they are in fact employed economically they could be taxed.
as opposed to merely accumulated appreciation/savings as it were

75
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:50:01am

re: #70 lawhawk

Think of it this way, if you’re in the middle class, you’re likely paying about 15% effective tax rate. These trillionaires and billionaires are paying less than 1%.

Getting an absolute minimum 15% tax (or better yet, 30% tax), would help restore fairness to system for those in the top tax bracket.

+1

76
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:50:48am

re: #42 mmmirele

The Southern Baptist Convention is doing its damndest to be en fuego when its convention starts in Nashville next Sunday.

First we have the letter by Russell Moore (NOT A NICE GUY) that got leaked, in which Moore said his two biggest problems in the SBC were the sexual abuse and the racism. (I’m really really condensing it down.) That led to a firestorm.

washingtonpost.com

Then we have this gem from D. August “Augie” Boto, former attorney for the SBC and former member of the SBC Executive Committee:

HV9w6dFOW2QJqIF1bLLHzzXf51+0O13OEhjW5c+iH2gpQTSDp9LZj+6RBn/t6qE8rItYsypnN6frzzc4AHj2kiSfg0KYfoJ2spTBZ0n5ZEu3y3gXS6K/TAiJVvCOOAWsIN19ny5AVoL4XlViDjYH++jVvPG2IPXmfXbYUIWmGHPd+/1s23DTeg==

77
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:52:42am

re: #71 Belafon

[Embedded content]
Why Democrats may defy history and win the 2022 midterms

stop this nonsense of it has to be because it always was before

Past performance is not indicative of future results
True in the market
True in politics

78
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:54:31am

re: #57 steve_davis

I’m assuming assembly of god pentacostal means speaking in tongues and the whole book of acts. I know a couple pentecostals from work. I’m converting one of them gradually to Anglicanism, and the other is church of christ, which means no hollering the jib-jab in church.

My family out in Western Kentucky were pentacostal. I remember a few years ago my late aunt complaining about the women wearing make up and jewelry showing up in the church these days.

79
Belafon  Jun 8, 2021 • 6:55:52am

I also think that, at times, it applies here as well:

80
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:00:22am

re: #79 Belafon

I also think that, at times, it applies here as well:

Of course, Trump really did try to overturn the election he lost through the courts, politicians, and eventually violence, just as I expected. Fortunately, Bill Barr decided not to try to help him.

81
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:08:45am

we just finished watching ‘startup’

it was just ok

ronald, one of the main characters is from little haiti
one of his tag lines was variations of ‘what they do’ - depending on the situation

so of course this is stuck in my head

YouTube

82
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:12:06am

Heh. We professionals need our jargon to show off the education we paid for.

83
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:14:19am
Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin opposes a sweeping voting-rights bill that his party is trying to pass.

Manchin has said he objects because no Republicans back it.* With him opposing, it cannot pass.

Manchin cosponsored the same bill in 2019, when it also had no GOP backers

.

Businessinsider

* this is of course bizarro world politics and not how any of it works.
I wonder if he’d object if there were 60 dems and no gop support.

84
lawhawk  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:14:47am

About the E Jean Carroll matter and how the Biden DOJ is continuing to defend against Carroll’s suit. Caselaw supports the ongoing defense by the Biden DOJ of Trump’s smear campaign against Carroll.

Overturn the underlying caselaw. That’s the fix.

85
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:17:31am

re: #84 lawhawk

About the E Jean Carroll matter and how the Biden DOJ is continuing to defend against Carroll’s suit. Caselaw supports the ongoing defense by the Biden DOJ of Trump’s smear campaign against Carroll.

Overturn the underlying caselaw. That’s the fix.

Doing so after McConnell filled the courts with right-wing hacks is the challenge.

86
lawhawk  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:18:21am

re: #71 Belafon

All well and good, except despite being +3, the Democrats lost seats, and lost ground in the House, but managed to split the Senate 50/48+2 frustrating awful ppl - Sinema/Manchin.

GOP voter suppression and gerrymandering may again nullify turnout and Democrats’ advantages.

87
Belafon  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:20:40am

re: #82 No Malarkey!

Heh. We professionals need our jargon to show off the education we paid for.

[Embedded content]

I’m a software engineer. We manage to make English confusing.

88
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:21:47am

re: #49 nowherenorth2

Sort of sad to see so much bad stuff happening in that region. I went to high school in Massena. Though I’ve only been back in the area a few times since my family moved in 1981. And it looks like the area, like a lot of NYS, did not really recover at all from the 2008 recession and things apparently have just gotten worse.

89
Belafon  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:23:27am

Republicans watch one channel:

90
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:23:51am

Lest you think conservative assholes were primarily an American problem…

TORONTO — A driver plowed a pickup truck into a family of five, killing four of them and seriously injuring the other in a deliberate attack that targeted the victims because they were Muslims, Canadian police said Monday.

Authorities said a young man was arrested in the parking lot of a nearby mall after the incident Sunday night in the Ontario city of London. Police said a black pickup truck mounted a curb and struck the victims at an intersection.

“This was an act of mass murder perpetuated against Muslims,” Mayor Ed Holder said. “It was rooted in unspeakable hatred.”

The extended family issued a statement identifying the dead as Salman Afzal, 46; his wife Madiha, 44; their daughter Yumna, 15; and a 74-year-old grandmother whose name was withheld. The hospitalized boy was identified as Fayez.

Canada doesn’t have the death penalty so expect this guy to get put away for a long time.

91
nowherenorth2  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:25:02am

re: #88 FFL (GOP Delenda Est)

The area was hit super hard. Like all the factories left the area. The major towns in the area minus the collegiate towns have been affected. We are in the middle of a massive drug epidemic and are the poorest county.

92
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:25:20am

re: #89 Belafon

trying to get a guy killed because he asked you to wear a mask

Leader Trump called him an opportunist and publicity seeker for failing to agree with Leader.

He hath spoken his Fat-Man-Wa upon the Evil Doctor.

93
Belafon  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:28:13am

Next, we’ll need a virus to combat the bacteria.

94
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:30:03am

re: #91 nowherenorth2

The area was hit super hard. Like all the factories left the area. The major towns in the area minus the collegiate towns have been affected. We are in the middle of a massive drug epidemic and are the poorest county.

My brother and I went through Massena back in 2015 while doing a trip to Ottawa and then down to visit friends in Saranac Lake. Noted how many of the shop fronts in the village were essentially boarded up and that the bakery we used to go to was closed.

95
JC1  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:30:08am

re: #64 lawhawk

ProPublica published a huge trove of information about the taxes (lack of) paid by billionaires like Bezos, Buffet, and others, and it’s eye opening as to the sheer amount of money they haven’t been required to pay because the tax code is gamed to favor them, while the burden falls to everyone else.

Taxing unrealized gains is a bridge too far, I think. Dividends and long term cap gains should be taxed at ordinary income rates though.

Taxing unrealized gains would lead to huge liquidations of stock at the end of the year to pay for taxes, which would cause unnecessary volatility and chaos in the markets. People would know this and try to sell before the selling starts, which would just lead to depressed equity values. Owner’s death should be a realization though.

96
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:30:33am

re: #90 Eclectic Cyborg

Lest you think conservative assholes were primarily an American problem…

TORONTO — A driver plowed a pickup truck into a family of five, killing four of them and seriously injuring the other in a deliberate attack that targeted the victims because they were Muslims, Canadian police said Monday.

Authorities said a young man was arrested in the parking lot of a nearby mall after the incident Sunday night in the Ontario city of London. Police said a black pickup truck mounted a curb and struck the victims at an intersection.

“This was an act of mass murder perpetuated against Muslims,” Mayor Ed Holder said. “It was rooted in unspeakable hatred.”

The extended family issued a statement identifying the dead as Salman Afzal, 46; his wife Madiha, 44; their daughter Yumna, 15; and a 74-year-old grandmother whose name was withheld. The hospitalized boy was identified as Fayez.

Canada doesn’t have the death penalty so expect this guy to get put away for a long time.

I don’t. My Canadian former-friend became a pro-death lunatic when her small-town nature came out during a pandemic. I also know about Alberta, Canada’s Mississippi.

There are shitty people everywhere.

97
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:32:10am

re: #87 Belafon

I’m a software engineer. We manage to make English confusing.

Lot of professions don’t know their own lingo/jargon/argot
Ask a financial pro what debit or credit means and they’ll likely be wrong

Debit means left side
Credit means right

That’s it

98
Teukka  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:33:54am

re: #89 Belafon

Republicans watch one channel:

99
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:35:39am

It’s a bad time to be a racist when even the Veiled Prophets come out against racism.
Racism being unacceptable in Missouri seems like big news to me.

Ellie Kemper: Veiled Prophet Organization Apologizes After Star Brands Its History ‘Racist’ (Newsweek via MSN)

100
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:35:45am

re: #95 JC1

Taxing unrealized gains is a bridge too far, I think. Dividends and long term cap gains should be taxed at ordinary income rates though.

If anything is adjusted I expect the line between “short term” and “long term” cap gains to be moved first. Dividends to a degree are already treated similar to ordinary income. It’s the cap gains that get the lower tax rates, especially those qualified as long term.

Unrealized gains are simply not income yet. They represent potential income only, and that only if they are sold at the current price of the stock/investment. They do have some inherent value of course since they can be used to a degree as collateral for something or to show potential income. (I used as portfolio statement once as proof of sufficient funds to rent a place that my salary at the time was marginal for.)

101
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:35:53am

re: #97 Dangerman

As in the left and right side of a ledger. Well, damn.

102
Belafon  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:35:54am
103
Eventual Carrion  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:36:42am

re: #35 Anymouse 🌹🏡😷

He’s done this before. He has a YouTube channel where he uploads his maskgression.

If while my wife was going through chemo and just had part of her colon removed. If he had pulled this while my wife’s immunity was low (which she lost a leg because of that to a diabetic infection). I WOULD HAVE FUCK HIS LITTLE WORLD UP SO HIS MAMA WOULD’T EVEN RECOGNIZE THAT SHITSTAIN FUCK!

104
JOE 🥓  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:36:57am

re: #96 Punish Domestic Terrorists

I don’t. My Canadian former-friend became a pro-death lunatic when her small-town nature came out during a pandemic. I also know about Alberta, Canada’s Mississippi.

There are shitty people everywhere.

One of my college pals moved to Canada and was elected to the Alberta assembly when Notley was Premier. He was a NDP and lost his seat in the next election when the NDP got slaughtered.

105
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:37:04am

re: #102 Belafon

They mean a donation to the Human Rights Commission, not Hilary Rodham Clinton.

/

106
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:37:50am

re: #86 lawhawk

All well and good, except despite being +3, the Democrats lost seats, and lost ground in the House, but managed to split the Senate 50/48+2 frustrating awful ppl - Sinema/Manchin.

GOP voter suppression and gerrymandering may again nullify turnout and Democrats’ advantages.

A few reasons to hope are: seats lost to reapportionment in California, Illinois, WV and NY ought to be red, as well as the seat lost in Ohio because I don’t think they can gerrymander it any more thoroughly than they already have; new seats in Oregon and Colorado ought to be blue; the GOP is likely to nominate a lot of extremists who will turn off suburban voters; voter suppression laws will also suppress non college educated low propensity white voters, and I believe the economy will be in great shape and President Biden will be very popular next year.

107
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:38:09am

re: #105 Eclectic Cyborg

They mean a donation to the Human Rights Commission, not Hilary Rodham Clinton.

/

It’s still an outrage!

108
The Pie Overlord!  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:38:28am
109
JOE 🥓  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:39:21am

re: #102 Belafon

Burger King says FUCK YOU to Chick Fil A!

I LOVE IT!

110
JC1  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:41:05am

re: #100 FFL (GOP Delenda Est)

If anything is adjusted I expect the line between “short term” and “long term” cap gains to be moved first. Dividends to a degree are already treated similar to ordinary income. It’s the cap gains that get the lower tax rates, especially those qualified as long term.

Unrealized gains are simply not income yet. They represent potential income only, and that only if they are sold at the current price of the stock/investment. They do have some inherent value of course since they can be used to a degree as collateral for something or to show potential income. (I used as portfolio statement once as proof of sufficient funds to rent a place that my salary at the time was marginal for.)

‘qualifued dividends’ are taxed at long term cap gains rate due to the Bush tax cuts and Obama deciding to make them permanent. Most dividends are qualified dividends, it just means that you’ve held the stock for 60 days. This provision made me think that I was taking crazy pills when Bush proposed it… Then it passed… Then Obama made it permanent rather than doing nothing and letting the provision sunset. Infuriating.

111
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:41:37am

re: #95 JC1

Taxing unrealized gains is a bridge too far, I think. Dividends and long term cap gains should be taxed at ordinary income rates though.

Taxing unrealized gains would lead to huge liquidations of stock at the end of the year to pay for taxes, which would cause unnecessary volatility and chaos in the markets. People would know this and try to sell before the selling starts, which would just lead to depressed equity values. Owner’s death should be a realization though.

Tax the unrealized gains when the owner dies; estate taxes should be much higher for huge fortunes.

112
Belafon  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:44:01am

re: #107 Punish Domestic Terrorists

It’s still an outrage!

I got that from here, dailykos.com, which points out that conservative’s attempt to boycott Burger King is having the opposite effect on their stock price.

113
JC1  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:45:38am

re: #111 No Malarkey!

Tax the unrealized gains when the owner dies; estate taxes should be much higher for huge fortunes.

Had the same thought. Biden is on board with something similar.

114
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:45:42am

Tucker pushing the neo-Nazi replacement conspiracy theory.

115
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:45:50am

re: #101 Eclectic Cyborg

As in the left and right side of a ledger. Well, damn.

that is all
not increases, decrease or any of that ‘depends on the type of account’ nonsense
that’s what they do/what effect they have, not what they are

in my dad’s day: ‘debits are the door side, credits are toward the window’

116
Sherlock Hound  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:48:05am

Border Patrol begging for a helicopter incident.

117
Teukka  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:49:28am

re: #1 The Pie Overlord!

This sad asshole is so desperate for attention he’s trolling a store whose primary clientele includes cancer patients.

[Embedded content]

Lizardim poll:
(a) Too harsh? (b) Not harsh enough? (c) Just right!

118
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:51:01am

re: #111 No Malarkey!

I’m still a proponent of a wealth tax. Unrealized gains are a bit tricky because the entire premise of “unrealized” implies things about the future.

Simple wealth tax: (1) have each person add up their assets (at present value.) (2) Then subtract liabilities (at present value.) (3) Annually tax the net assets at 1%.

If necessary, allow an individual to define their own fiscal year, and have them pay this tax quarterly.

Options, derivatives, and other abstract instruments are simply valued at their current market price.

To make this palatable to the average home owner, one can exempt one’s primary residence below a certain value (say a million dollars.) Family farms (i.e., residence and employment are the same) perhaps have a larger exception.

A wealth tax like this has no where for a very rich person to hide. If they try to inflate their liabilities, they will just pay more whenever the liability comes to an end. If someone tries to rig the system by lowering the present value of their assets, then they will pay a larger amount via capital gains taxes (by requiring the capital gains calculations to use the same valuations as the wealth tax.)

119
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:51:03am

re: #117 Teukka

Lizardim poll:
(a) Too harsh? (b) Not harsh enough? (c) Just right!

Harsh enough might get you a ban, so this is probably just right.

120
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:52:04am

re: #114 No Malarkey!

Tucker pushing the neo-Nazi replacement conspiracy theory.

You can’t even apply for citizenship until you have been a resident for 5 years (3 years if married to a US citizen). There are some exceptions; my kids became citizens immediately upon our adoption of them from China. But of course they can’t vote until they turn 18.

121
JOE 🥓  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:52:18am

122
Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:52:59am

re: #116 Sherlock Hound

Border Patrol begging for a helicopter indien.

[Embedded content]

That is a REALLY bad idea. Hover in ground effect, near zero visibility, engine stops. They aren’t called “choppers” for nothing.

123
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:54:09am

re: #118 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

I’m still a proponent of a wealth tax. Unrealized gains are a bit tricky because the entire premise of “unrealized” implies things about the future.

Simple wealth tax: (1) have each person add up their assets (at present value.) (2) Then subtract liabilities (at present value.) (3) Annually tax the net assets at 1%.

If necessary, allow an individual to define their own fiscal year, and have them pay this tax quarterly.

Options, derivatives, and other abstract instruments are simply valued at their current market price.

To make this palatable to the average home owner, one can exempt one’s primary residence below a certain value (say a million dollars.) Family farms (i.e., residence and employment are the same) perhaps have a larger exception.

A wealth tax like this has no where for a very rich person to hide. If they try to inflate their liabilities, they will just pay more whenever the liability comes to an end. If someone tries to rig the system by lowering the present value of their assets, then they will pay a larger amount via capital gains taxes (by requiring the capital gains calculations to use the same valuations as the wealth tax.)

There is some question about the constitutionality of a wealth tax though. I’m not against the concept.

124
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:55:51am

re: #123 No Malarkey!

There is some question about the constitutionality of a wealth tax though. I’m not against the concept.

That’s not stopped states and localities from implementing property taxes.

All assets are property, therefore a wealth tax is just a property tax.

125
Sherlock Hound  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:56:25am

re: #122 Shiplord Kirel: Fan of USPS, Goodyear, and Oreo

That is a REALLY bad idea. Hover in ground effect, near zero visibility, engine stops. They aren’t called “choppers” for nothing.

I would think that the British Army pilots out of Belfast are shaking their heads.

126
sagehen  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:57:46am

re: #105 Eclectic Cyborg

They mean a donation to the Human Rights Commission, not Hilary Rodham Clinton.

/

Also, Bureau of Land Management and Black Lives Matter have almost nothing in common other than being referred to by the same initials. (although, I dunno, maybe they have some of the same enemies?)

127
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:58:10am

A VAT may be a good idea, if it’s combined with a big tax credit you get to claim regardless of income so that it’s not regressive. Rich people spend huge amounts of money, even if it’s a lower percentage of their income than lower income people.

128
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:59:36am

re: #124 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

That’s not stopped states and localities from implementing property taxes.

All assets are property, therefore a wealth tax is just a property tax.

True, but the states are not constrained by certain constitutional restrictions on federal taxation which might apply.

129
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 8, 2021 • 7:59:54am

Looks like the next great European war will break out over… sausages?

‘The Battle of the Bangers’ looms large… and Boris has history

130
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:04:18am

re: #118 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

I’m still a proponent of a wealth tax. Unrealized gains are a bit tricky because the entire premise of “unrealized” implies things about the future.

Simple wealth tax: (1) have each person add up their assets (at present value.) (2) Then subtract liabilities (at present value.) (3) Annually tax the net assets at 1%.

If necessary, allow an individual to define their own fiscal year, and have them pay this tax quarterly.

Options, derivatives, and other abstract instruments are simply valued at their current market price.

To make this palatable to the average home owner, one can exempt one’s primary residence below a certain value (say a million dollars.) Family farms (i.e., residence and employment are the same) perhaps have a larger exception.

A wealth tax like this has no where for a very rich person to hide. If they try to inflate their liabilities, they will just pay more whenever the liability comes to an end. If someone tries to rig the system by lowering the present value of their assets, then they will pay a larger amount via capital gains taxes (by requiring the capital gains calculations to use the same valuations as the wealth tax.)

sorry, it’ll never happen

we have a hard enough time defining what is and isn’t taxable income

there’s a lot of very valuable assets that are not marketable - how do they get valued and by who? annual appraisals?
one example: interests in non public companies / closely held / unincorporated businesses

then who verifies these valuations?

and isnt this what TFG is in all kinds of trouble for? look how long it took for anyone to notice his different valuations for tax vs insurance vs securing loans purposes

an important aspect of a taxation system should be objectivity - that different people following the same rules should arrive at similar results

131
JOE 🥓  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:04:50am

re: #129 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Looks like the next great European war will break out over… sausages?

‘The Battle of the Bangers’ looms large… and Boris has history

Tom Green to the rescue!

Freddy Got Fingered: “Daddy Would You Like Some Sausage?” (Full Scene)

132
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:05:10am

re: #120 No Malarkey!

You can’t even apply for citizenship until you have been a resident for 5 years (3 years if married to a US citizen). There are some exceptions; my kids became citizens immediately upon our adoption of them from China. But of course they can’t vote until they turn 18.

the truth of the system doesnt matter
tucker says it so it’s so for those people

133
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:07:44am

re: #130 Dangerman

Understand the concern over obectivity.

But eventually all assets will trade hands. This gives an objective evaluation.

So when someone sells an asset, if that price really ends up being much higher than what they’ve previously valued it at, they will have a much higher capital gain on that asset, thus pay more capital gains taxes.

If the asset turns out to be below what they valued it at, then they will have a loss for that year.

134
A hollow voice says NOW drain that swamp!  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:08:19am

re: #59 jeffreyw

[Embedded content]

Video

Good morning!

Western good morning!

From the same bush.

135
JOE 🥓  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:09:11am

136
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:09:46am

re: #130 Dangerman

TFG got away with so much deceit exactly because the IRS has been underfunded and directed to not do what is necessary against the rich (or those who pretend to be very rich, as in TFG.)

If the IRS had the capability they ought to have, TFG would never had made it to being a candidate in the first place.

137
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:10:51am

re: #106 No Malarkey!

A few reasons to hope are: seats lost to reapportionment in California, Illinois, WV and NY ought to be red, as well as the seat lost in Ohio because I don’t think they can gerrymander it any more thoroughly than they already have; new seats in Oregon and Colorado ought to be blue; the GOP is likely to nominate a lot of extremists who will turn off suburban voters; voter suppression laws will also suppress non college educated low propensity white voters, and I believe the economy will be in great shape and President Biden will be very popular next year.

Other reasons for hope: Michigan, which is losing a seat, and NC, which is gaining a seat, have Democratic Governors to check legislative gerrymandering. In Kentucky, Republicans have said they aren’t interested in trying to crack Jefferson County to eliminate John Yarmuth. GOP congressmen say they like their current districts and don’t want a bunch of new Jefferson County constituents, and it could run afoul of state law prohibiting the splitting of more counties than necessary.

138
steve_davis  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:11:31am

re: #90 Eclectic Cyborg

Lest you think conservative assholes were primarily an American problem…

TORONTO — A driver plowed a pickup truck into a family of five, killing four of them and seriously injuring the other in a deliberate attack that targeted the victims because they were Muslims, Canadian police said Monday.

Authorities said a young man was arrested in the parking lot of a nearby mall after the incident Sunday night in the Ontario city of London. Police said a black pickup truck mounted a curb and struck the victims at an intersection.

“This was an act of mass murder perpetuated against Muslims,” Mayor Ed Holder said. “It was rooted in unspeakable hatred.”

The extended family issued a statement identifying the dead as Salman Afzal, 46; his wife Madiha, 44; their daughter Yumna, 15; and a 74-year-old grandmother whose name was withheld. The hospitalized boy was identified as Fayez.

Canada doesn’t have the death penalty so expect this guy to get put away for a long time.

oh please let the judge run the sentences consecutively.

139
JC1  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:15:08am

re: #130 Dangerman

sorry, it’ll never happen

we have a hard enough time defining what is and isn’t taxable income

there’s a lot of very valuable assets that are not marketable - how do they get valued and by who? annual appraisals?
one example: interests in non public companies / closely held / unincorporated businesses

then who verifies these valuations?

and isnt this what TFG is in all kinds of trouble for? look how long it took for anyone to notice his different valuations for tax vs insurance vs securing loans purposes

an important aspect of a taxation system should be objectivity - that different people following the same rules should arrive at similar results

Switzerland has no trouble implementing a wealth tax… Even if some assets get missed, so what? You can also offer bounties for whistleblowers that report unreported wealth.

140
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:16:25am

re: #124 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

That’s not stopped states and localities from implementing property taxes.

All assets are property, therefore a wealth tax is just a property tax.

florida had an intangibles tax
repealed in 2007

- they had no way to know if someone didnt file but should have
- taxpayers determined the market values

a cottage industry grew - for the wealthy of course - Florida intangible tax trusts or Florida intangible tax-exempt trusts

florida still has a tangible personal property tax for businesses
the business lists its assets on a form and pays a tax.

you think businesses list ‘all articles of value that the owner can physically possess and have intrinsic value’ (except for exclusions)?

i have never heard of a tpp being audited or verified, though these days it is much easier to identify potential nonfilers because most businesses themselves have to be registered somewhere - state, county, town

141
The Pie Overlord!  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:20:27am
142
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:21:16am

re: #139 JC1

Switzerland has no trouble implementing a wealth tax… Even if some assets get missed, so what? You can also offer bounties for whistleblowers that report unreported wealth.

The big problem is that direct taxes have to be apportioned by state population according to the Constitution. Income taxes were exempt from this requirement by the 16th Amendment, but not wealth taxes.

143
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:23:07am

re: #140 Dangerman

All taxation works (at least in the US) by the belief that citizens will uphold the law.

That is true today, with income taxes. The IRS does not audit each business to determine if one is truly reporting one’s net income.

In my proposed wealth tax, every tax payer will have to file. For most people the net assets will be below the threshold.

That there will be people who will try to cheat is not a reason to avoid implementing a wealth tax.

Otherwise, we might as well give up on income taxes too.

144
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:24:42am

re: #142 No Malarkey!

Yes, the 16th Amendment needs to be modified.

I know, not in the current political divisions in Congress can such a thing happen.

But we all know that the current arrangement, with the GOP being a minority who wants to cling to power, cannot last in peace.

The wall has to break.

145
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:24:47am

re: #143 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

All taxation works (at least in the US) by the belief that citizens will uphold the law.

Just as any electoral system works by the belief that the participants will recognize and abide by the results.

That is no longer the case in most GOP states in our country.

146
Belafon  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:29:53am

re: #141 The Pie Overlord!

[Embedded content]

There were lots of people that believed God would save them during the Black Plague, which is why they would find churches full of dead people.

147
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:29:53am
148
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:32:09am

re: #144 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Yes, the 16th Amendment needs to be modified.

I know, not in the current political divisions in Congress can such a thing happen.

But we all know that the current arrangement, with the GOP being a minority who wants to cling to power, cannot last in peace.

The wall has to break.

It should, but it doesn’t have to. The wealthy have a lot of power, which they use to protect their wealth.

149
sagehen  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:35:05am

re: #146 Belafon

There were lots of people that believed God would save them during the Black Plague, which is why they would find churches full of dead people.

Jeep. Rowboat. Helicopter.

150
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:37:44am

re: #149 sagehen

Jeep. Rowboat. Helicopter.

Vaccine.

151
wrenchwench  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:40:42am

re: #93 Belafon

Next, we’ll need a virus to combat the bacteria.

She swallowed a spider to catch the fly….

152
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:41:23am

re: #139 JC1

Switzerland has no trouble implementing a wealth tax… Even if some assets get missed, so what? You can also offer bounties for whistleblowers that report unreported wealth.

and australia managed to address their firearm problem

it’s too big a sweeping change in thinking that it’ll never happen here

153
Teukka  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:43:25am

re: #146 Belafon

There were lots of people that believed God would save them during the Black Plague, which is why they would find churches full of dead people.

There is this legend of a town somewhere, known for its devout inhabitants. The Y. pestis pandemic was seen as a punishment from God, so the people there didn’t think they were in danger, and so did nothing.

A couple of weeks later, a caravan passed by, finding the towns inhabitants all dead. Some 20,000 people or so….

154
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:43:37am
155
danarchy  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:44:12am

re: #109 JOE 🥓

Burger King says FUCK YOU to Chick Fil A!

I LOVE IT!

Unfortunately Burger King has the worst chicken sandwich ever. I gave it a few chances at various BKs and it was like chewing an old piece of shoe leather.

156
sagehen  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:44:39am

Latest polling in NYC mayoral primary:

Eric Adams (Brooklyn Borough President) has a significant lead over Andrew Yang.

He’s got a pretty good story:
en.wikipedia.org

157
b.d. (Lock Him Up, Lock Him Up!)  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:46:21am

re: #154 No Malarkey!

Garland also had to find a case to assign the worst of the unfireable Trump guys to.

158
GlutenFreeJesus  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:47:36am

re: #155 danarchy

Unfortunately Burger King has the worst chicken sandwich ever. I gave it a few chances at various BKs and it was like chewing an old piece of shoe leather.

They’re going to rework it and have a new offering by the end of the year. Why it takes that long, even for a fast food chain, is beyond me.

159
Dopamine Fish  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:48:57am

re: #158 GlutenFreeJesus

They’re going to rework it and have a new offering by the end of the year. Why it takes that long, even for a fast food chain, is beyond me.

It’s worse in a fast food chain because of all the approvals and bureaucracy that it takes. You’d think that when you have a disastrous offering like that, you’d want to be able to turn it around quickly, but there’s testing and focus groups and legal reviews (yes, seriously) and branding and marketing.

160
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:50:56am
161
JOE 🥓  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:55:08am

You got a lot of MBA’s who work for investment firms that buy failing chains who have only one ability—driving a chain into the ground.

Classic example—how MBA’s killed RAX with “Mr. Delicious”

The Commercial that Killed a Fast Food Chain

162
sagehen  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:58:30am

re: #160 No Malarkey!

when my parents went to college (dad graduated 1951, mom in 1952), the total cost of their undergrad degrees was $0. Combined. (dad went to CCNY, mom to Hunter College). They didn’t even have to buy books, because the library was 24-hour.

The money they got from summer jobs, after school jobs, plus dad’s GI bennies, all went to grad school.

163
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:59:24am

re: #158 GlutenFreeJesus

They’re going to rework it and have a new offering by the end of the year. Why it takes that long, even for a fast food chain, is beyond me.

Because part of being a large fast food chain is that the product is consistent across most of their franchise locations since part of their appeal is that you know what you will be getting when you purchase their product.

So they need to prep and market something that can be produced, transported (probably as frozen patties) and cooked with some variation in the cooking equipment’s condition and other factors to result in roughly the same sandwich regardless of the location in which it is prepared. I half expect that a lot of the research is the packaging work to ensure it can be stored and transported effectively.

164
jimmyvluv4u  Jun 8, 2021 • 8:59:47am

re: #161 JOE 🥓

I remember the Rax in my hometown. Seemed like a cut-rate Arby’s at the time.

165
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:07:26am

re: #164 jimmyvluv4u

I remember the Rax in my hometown. Seemed like a cut-rate Arby’s at the time.

I remember going to a Rax in Pittsburgh while in college in the 80s on occasion. Salad bar included the baked potatoes and chips/nacho sauce. Which to male college students was a way to fill up stomachs fairly cheaply. Rax were doing the salads and baked potato thing before Wendy’s went heavy into the baked potatoes and better seating, but ultimately unsuccessful since their clientele were looking for a cut-rate Arby’s.

I can still pick out some of their former locations in western PA since the “sun room” addition architecture they had is sort of standout. Similar to picking out former Burger King or Pizza Hut locations due to the roofs.

166
jimmyvluv4u  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:08:34am

re: #165 FFL (GOP Delenda Est)

Yeah the sunrooms were weird. I seem to remember the one in our town being full of ferns and other types of plants.

167
The Pie Overlord!  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:08:51am

Cultural appropriation at its finest, and by “finest” I mean “WORST”

168
danarchy  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:10:02am

re: #160 No Malarkey!

I wish universities would take some responsibility for the student loan issues. The cited study came out of Brandeis which has a $55000 plus tuition and a billion dollar endowment. Maybe instead of blaming the student loan programs themselves they could look at why they jack up their tuition almost every year.

169
sagehen  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:13:41am

re: #167 The Pie Overlord!

Cultural appropriation at its finest, and by “finest” I mean “WORST”

There once was a time that Naomi Wolf was respected. And deservedly so.

But that was then and this is now, and whatthefuck happened to turn her into this!?!?

170
wrenchwench  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:15:32am

Ed. after reading the comment above; Not for the better, anyway…

171
I Would Prefer Not To  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:22:38am

re: #169 sagehen

There once was a time that Naomi Wolf was respected. And deservedly so.

But that was then and this is now, and whatthefuck happened to turn her into this!?!?

I read the link. the party is potluck. No masks, no vaccines, share your germs. This may be her rock bottom.

172
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:23:05am

re: #168 danarchy

I wish universities would take some responsibility for the student loan issues. The cited study came out of Brandeis which has a $55000 plus tuition and a billion dollar endowment. Maybe instead of blaming the student loan programs themselves they could look at why they jack up their tuition almost every year.

as long as there is an education finance market, the specific actual costs are not a factor because the uni gets its cash up front and then is decoupled from the long term collections process

same thing that happened with mortgages: if the originator isnt responsible for collecting the payments for 30 years and can just sell the loan on day 1 and pocket a fee, well…we all saw what happened

173
gocart mozart  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:25:42am

Lawyer involved shooting

174
The Pie Overlord!  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:27:53am

Uh…

175
Teukka  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:29:43am

re: #174 The Pie Overlord!

Uh…

WAT.

176
The Pie Overlord!  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:31:48am

re: #171 I Would Prefer Not To

I read the link. the party is potluck. No masks, no vaccines, share your germs. This may be her rock bottom.

177
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:35:32am

re: #176 The Pie Overlord!

They are so entitled.

178
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:38:33am

Got a letter from the IRS about the child tax credit many of us will be getting soon. Thanks President Biden!

179
Dopamine Fish  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:39:05am

re: #178 No Malarkey!

Got a letter from the IRS about the child tax credit many of us will be getting soon. Thanks President Biden!

I got that letter yesterday. I thought it might be bad news, because I wasn’t expecting it. I was very grateful to read the contents.

180
Belafon  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:41:16am

re: #178 No Malarkey!

Got a letter from the IRS about the child tax credit many of us will be getting soon. Thanks President Biden!

Because of Manchin, the threshold was lowered enough that we’re not eligible.

181
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:41:22am

re: #178 No Malarkey!

Got a letter from the IRS about the child tax credit many of us will be getting soon. Thanks President Biden!

we dont have kids.
this is so unfair //

182
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:45:34am

re: #181 Dangerman

we dont have kids.
this is so unfair //

You still have time to adopt!

183
Amory Blaine  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:47:04am

With low expectations I checked the “where’s my check” IRS hotline again for the 20th time. Lo and behold it’s getting mailed on the 11th. Wow.

184
No Malarkey!  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:49:08am

Those expecting around New Years should definitely consider inducing by December 31 to get the $3,600 credit for this year.

185
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Jun 8, 2021 • 9:54:12am

re: #181 Dangerman

we dont have kids.
this is so unfair //

When a person has no kids, they have to throw tantrums themselves.

186
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:00:55am

re: #185 Punish Domestic Terrorists

When a person has no kids, they have to throw tantrums themselves.

You should just have your doctor present a note that you have done your duty and tried every month for the past year.

187
A Three Hour Tour  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:06:33am

re: #129 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Looks like the next great European war will break out over… sausages?

‘The Battle of the Bangers’ looms large… and Boris has history

Riding public sentiment against Brussels insisting that Britain replace the classic British sausage with the Eurosausage is what swept Jim Hacker into Number Ten in YES, PRIME MINISTER.

188
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:09:42am

re: #187 A Three Hour Tour

Riding public sentiment against Brussels insisting that Britain replace the classic British sausage with the Eurosausage is what swept Jim Hacker into Number Ten in YES, PRIME MINISTER.

And simply asking the UK to abide by the terms of an agreement that it made necessary by its actions and agreed to voluntarily is just too much. Your standard headline is a variant of:

Brexit supporters troubled by apparent inability to have cake after eating it

189
Teukka  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:14:02am
190
Dopamine Fish  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:14:37am

re: #188 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

And simply asking the UK to abide by the terms of an agreement that it made necessary by its actions and agreed to voluntarily is just too much. Your standard headline is a variant of:

Brexit supporters troubled by apparent inability to have cake after eating it

Something along the lines of, “Well, well, well, if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions.”

191
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:14:59am

re: #186 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

You should just have your doctor present a note that you have done your duty and tried every month for the past year.

The vasectomy and lack of a willing partner may be a problem.

192
Teukka  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:18:05am

re: #189 Teukka

In tail of one of the antivaxxer subthreads of above article:

193
teleskiguy  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:20:43am
194
Dopamine Fish  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:22:02am

re: #193 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Oh my God, is that really true?! Everything I’ve known and believed about the world has been upended! Lies are truth! Bad is good! Down is up! The sky is burnt sienna! PINEAPPLE BELONGS ON PIZZA!!!!

195
teleskiguy  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:26:42am

Internet was gone all day yesterday. So I changed the oil on my car and drove back roads to the ski area to finish cleaning up from Saturday night (we catered a graduation party for the Mountain Ops Manager’s daughter). In addition to no internet, I left my sunglasses up at the ski area on Saturday so I was sans shades all day yesterday too. I could’ve used my Julbo Vermont glacier glasses, but they’re just a couple of grades above welding glasses.

196
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:26:55am

re: #193 teleskiguy

I don’t think she ever recovered from being sexually assaulted by an Egyptian mob.

197
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:28:13am

It’s worse than I thought. She retweets Greenwald now.

198
Dangerman  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:28:40am

re: #185 Punish Domestic Terrorists

When a person has no kids, they have to throw tantrums themselves.

oh then I got that covered

but still no credit even if i act like a child

199
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:30:08am

re: #189 Teukka

Paywalled, sadly.

200
steve_davis  Jun 8, 2021 • 10:39:40am

re: #158 GlutenFreeJesus

They’re going to rework it and have a new offering by the end of the year. Why it takes that long, even for a fast food chain, is beyond me.

The Popeyes chicken sandwich, though, is like god breathed life into the chicken and then divinely marinated her. So really, no excuse to be eating any chicken product from burger king or chik fil-a.

201
Punish Domestic Terrorists  Jun 8, 2021 • 11:26:02am

re: #200 steve_davis

The Popeyes chicken sandwich, though, is like god breathed life into the chicken and then divinely marinated her. So really, no excuse to be eating any chicken product from burger king or chik fil-a.

That’s an evil god from the chicken’s perspective.


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