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1
Belafon  May 26, 2022 • 7:50:37pm

Moving it over:

My facebook.com post:

19 kids and two teachers killed (and a husband who died of a heart attack yesterday, leaving four kids without either parent), and somewhere around 20 shot. And the mad rush from those claiming to be Christian is to defend their guns and find another excuse to do nothing.

You know the story of the shootout at the OK Corral, right? The one immortalized in every story about Wyatt Earp? You know how the reason for the shootout was that Earp had imposed a no gun policy on the Dodge, and some decided to test it? Imagine him being here today and wondering what the hell people are thinking believing that people walking around with guns is a good thing.

19 children dead. And two teachers.

You know what I hear when I hear “It’s not the guns it’s the people”? I hear people who are too irresponsible to own guns. I hear people who don’t understand that it’s purpose is to kill, and don’t treat it properly. We keep knives from children because they don’t understand how dangerous they are and cannot properly handle them. And that’s why I hear when I hear adults who won’t acknowledge that guns are dangers, that they are actually children, and are irresponsible.

19 children dead.

I see the Republican solution is to decide that schools should only have one entrance. It’s not a solution, it’s a farce. First, they would never actually spend the money on it. Second, their designs would lead to more deaths. One door in means one door out. One headline reads “Hundreds of kids died in a fire as they were unable to get out of the building as it burned.” Another one reads “Shooters, after pulling the smoke alarm, killed dozens of kids as they streamed out the only exit.” Oh, wait, that already happened, at Westside Middle School in Jonesboro, AR, Sherry’s home town, back in 1998. It would happen again.

Two teachers.

Did you hear about the way the police acted? How it started is blurry at the moment, but we do know this because of witnesses and some video: The cops ran in and got their children out, and then stood around and fought with parents who wanted them to do their damn job. The sheriff confirmed today that the police didn’t go in because they were afraid of getting shot. SAY WHAT?!! Turn in your f-in’ uniform. They actually arrested a mom, and when the freed her, she got her own kids out. They should have been in there, and if they were the brave cops I keep hearing about, they would have considered it their job to protect the lives of all of those kids.

And multiple kids injured.

You ever played with one of those Chinese finger puzzles, the one where you stick a finger in each end and try to get out by pulling on it? For me, it’s a great analogy for a lot of things, like my job as a software developer, and now. Too many people think that if we just pull harder, just add more guns, we will get out of this. But it’s ridiculously obvious that it’s just making it worse. There is no defensive solution that will make this better, no amount of guns, no amount of walls, no amount of cops standing guard will keeps schools, churches, grocery stores, concert venues, clubs, and parades safe. To get out of the puzzle, you have to push your fingers together; you have to do the opposite of what you kept wanting to do. It is time for us to stop trying to fix this with more guns because it won’t work.

“Oh, but…” How many active shooter drills did you go through as a kid? For me, it was none. And every classroom door at Anson Jones elementary opened to the outside. Why is that? Why did we not have to train to try hide so that a shooter wouldn’t see us? Why did none of us have to decide if we were going to take a bullet for our classmates if the shooter got in? Was it because people were less evil? Nope. Hell, crime is half of what it was when I was a kid. The only crime statistic that is higher than when we were kids is gun violence. Let me state that again:

The. Only. Crime. Statistic. That. Is. Higher. Than. When. We. Were. Kids. Is. Gun. Violence.

Guns are dangerous. Period. And guns, by definition, when used, violate the space around other people. You know, that space where your freedom ends and mine begins? The space that says I can’t just walk up and slap you? Guns do that, and there’s no choice in the matter. There’s no “Sorry, you can’t do that.”

Did you hear that parents are having to give DNA swabs to help identify their kids, because the guns he used tore them to pieces? Did you hear about the dad who found out his daughter was dead because he was cleaning a friend of hers and she mentioned her name? Can you feel anything for the parents other than thinking that you would have somehow stopped the shooter? Did you hear about the dad in Arlington today who took a gun to his kid’s school to pick them up and shot himself in the foot?

Did you hear that he waited until his 18th birthday, the day he was legally allowed to buy then, before he spent his money? Did you know he couldn’t buy a handgun until he’s 21 but was somehow able to buy an AR-15 at 18? Imagine if we’d had real laws, like background checks, training requirements, and insurance.

It’s time for all of us to be adults. And part of being adults is recognizing when you’re playing in a fantasy world that isn’t real. And part of it is giving up something you might like because it might be hurting others. Sometimes, that is small, like choosing not to go out to dinner or to buy that thing you want because the kid has school expenses. And sometimes, it’s giving up something that seems awesome - and btw, I would love to go to a range to shoot one, in the same way that sometime, I’m going to that place over off of George Bush where I can operate a front loader - because it is definitely hurting others, it’s hurting kids.

And no, this isn’t a call to ban all guns. This is the fact that regular citizens do not need semi-automatic weapons that were originally designed for the military, and that people do not need to be walking around with the weapons, and everyone needs to be trained and insured. We once decided that Tommy guns had no place in our country, a moved backed by the NRA by the way, and no one’s 2nd amendment rights disappeared.

It’s time we get back to school being a place where kids worried about homework, grades, who likes who, and what color the cat should be in the picture. And that’s on us adults. Requiring kids to live in a war zone is our failure.

2
Belafon  May 26, 2022 • 7:53:35pm

When someone pipes up about abortion, I’m ready: I’ve read the Bible, and the only comment it makes about abortion is that it’s a good test for adultery.

Also, the e in adultery is extra.

3
Eclectic Cyborg  May 26, 2022 • 7:58:39pm

We can’t restrict guns, but we can sure force everyone to take their footwear off at an airport security checkpoint because ONE GUY tried to blow up a plane with a shoe bomb 18 years ago.

🙄

4
Targetpractice  May 26, 2022 • 8:00:23pm

re: #3 Eclectic Cyborg

We can’t restrict guns, but we can sure force everyone to take their footwear off at an airport security checkpoint because ONE GUY tried to blow up a plane with a shoe bomb 18 years ago.

🙄

Can’t carry normal bottles of shampoo or conditioner in your luggage anymore because assholes tried to sneak aboard binary explosives.

5
wrenchwench  May 26, 2022 • 8:02:09pm

re: #2 Belafon

Also, the e in adultery is extra.

That’s in the bible? Aramaic?

6
Captain Ron  May 26, 2022 • 8:04:48pm

Obi-Wan Kenobi starts tomorrow on Disney+.

7
EstebanTornado1963  May 26, 2022 • 8:16:15pm

re: #6 Captain Ron

Obi-Wan Kenobi starts tomorrow on Disney+.

45 minutes for me😁

8
A Cranky One  May 26, 2022 • 8:18:45pm

9
austin_blue  May 26, 2022 • 8:19:56pm

re: #98 Backwoods_Sleuth

Pretty certain Beto will make that so.

Beto can try, but TF tiny mushroom G will certainly not take the stage until Beto has left his. He will not have anyone harshing his mellow.

10
Captain Ron  May 26, 2022 • 8:34:28pm

re: #8 A Cranky One

“No take. Throw!”

11
jaunte  May 26, 2022 • 8:40:56pm
12
Patricia Kayden  May 26, 2022 • 8:41:26pm

13
KingKenrod  May 26, 2022 • 8:43:59pm

deep thots

14
jaunte  May 26, 2022 • 8:55:08pm
15
austin_blue  May 26, 2022 • 9:02:12pm

re: #13 KingKenrod

deep thots

At a very fundamentally odd level, what Adams is saying my be correct.

As far as bullying is concerned when you have Asperger’s, and not anything else.

It also seems to be a confession that he was bullied in exactly this way.

It doesn’t really make any of his other opinions legitimate, but may actually explain much of his perceived reality.

I guess I can kinda sorta respect that, except for the lack of his own capacity for self-awareness.

I know we’ve got a lot of people on this board who are on the spectrum. I’d be interested hearing their opinions.

16
austin_blue  May 26, 2022 • 9:04:48pm

And I’ll read those responses tomorrow, because I’m off to read me some Stephenson.

17
jaunte  May 26, 2022 • 9:09:26pm
18
ckkatz  May 26, 2022 • 9:11:00pm

Something to consider:

When under stress, members of an organization fall back on their training and their understanding of their job.

Look at what the Uvalde Police Department did when they were under stress. They did fall back on their training and their understanding of their job.

Rather than stop the shooter, they attempted to control the local population. Because they, just like the Ferguson, Mo Police Department understood their job was to control the local population. Not protect them.

Militaries whose job is to control the local population rather than protect them also collapse like this.

I generally call these organizations corrupt. Because they lie to outsiders about their mission.

19
Targetpractice  May 26, 2022 • 9:11:19pm

re: #11 jaunte

[Embedded content]

What he really meant to say is “We don’t take their statement until they’ve had time to speak to a union lawyer, so they know what to say and what not to say.”

20
A Cranky One  May 26, 2022 • 9:12:44pm

Technically true.

21
TedStriker  May 26, 2022 • 9:14:35pm

re: #20 A Cranky One

Technically true.

[Embedded content]

The best kind of correct.

Of course, neither had anyone else in the world.

22
BigPapa  May 26, 2022 • 9:16:46pm
23
Hecuba's daughter  May 26, 2022 • 9:17:23pm

re: #13 KingKenrod

deep thots

[Embedded content]

Trump supporters tend to be sociopaths, who live in a conscience free zone. There may be a few who are gullible but most are just as evil as he is without the large public megaphone to incite others.

24
ckkatz  May 26, 2022 • 9:24:00pm

At least some reports that the Ukrainians are reinforcing the Sieverodonetsk-Lisichansk area rather than withdrawing from it. The concern is that the Russians could surround and trap the Ukrainian forces in that region.

Possibilities for reinforcing are
1. That the Ukrainians believe that the Russian efforts will collapse and cause the Russians to fail to surround that area.
2. That the Russians are moving so slowly that there is plenty of time to withdraw.
3. Ukrainian Hubris and over confidence.

I do not have the fine level of understanding to know which of the above is the correct answer. Certainly the Ukrainian forces in the area are taking a terrible pounding.

25
jaunte  May 26, 2022 • 9:24:55pm
26
jaunte  May 26, 2022 • 9:25:53pm

“These were like-minded people who used this chat group to talk about their shared interests in racial hatred, replacement theory and hatred of anyone who is Jewish, a person of color or not of European ancestry,” said one of the two law enforcement officials with close knowledge of the investigation. “What is especially upsetting is that these six people received advanced notice of the Buffalo shooting, about 30 minutes before it happened.

“The FBI has verified that none of these people called law enforcement to warn them about the shooting. The FBI database shows no advance tips from anyone that this shooting was about to happen.”

27
ckkatz  May 26, 2022 • 9:39:39pm

Interesting WashPost article on a militia light infantry unit in the Sieverodonetsk-Lisichansk area. Their fate, or worse, is generally what happens to irregular light infantry units in a major battle zone. I suspect that they are very lucky to not have been wiped out by now.

From the map given, it looks like they and perhaps others are holding a village to prevent the Russians from advancing up the Siversky-Donets River to surround the Ukrainians holding Severodonetsk and Lysychansk.

And while it is true that often regular light infantry units have more resources, there are never enough such resources. I was recently reading about during the WW2 Battle of the Bulge, a unit of the 82nd Airborne Division counterattacked a German armored column with knives because that was about they had left. Interestingly, they did apparently stop the German column.

Ukrainian volunteer fighters in the east feel abandoned

Stuck in their trenches, the Ukrainian volunteers lived off a potato per day as Russian forces pounded them with artillery and Grad rockets on a key eastern front line. Outnumbered, untrained and clutching only light weapons, the men prayed for the barrage to end — and for their own tanks to stop targeting the Russians.

*snip*

Ukrainian forces have succeeded in thwarting Russian efforts to seize Kyiv and Kharkiv and have scored battlefield victories in the east. But the experience of Lapko and his group of volunteers offers a rare and more realistic portrait of the conflict and Ukraine’s struggle to halt the Russian advance in parts of Donbas. Ukraine, like Russia, has provided scant information about deaths, injuries or losses of military equipment. But after three months of war, this company of 120 men is down to 54 because of deaths, injuries and desertions.

*snip*

In a recent clash, he said, his men attacked two Russian armored vehicles carrying about 30 soldiers, ambushing them with grenades and guns.

washingtonpost.com

28
ckkatz  May 26, 2022 • 9:44:15pm

re: #25 jaunte

Iirc, there were some real problems with the New York City office of the FBI. (Remember Giuliani talking about his friends in the FBI during the 2016 Campaign.)

Apparently Comey started to take a _little_ action. But, from what I understand, that action was stopped when tfg fired Comey.

And there certainly seems to be a lot of questions on the loyalty to the Constitution from ICE in particular, and DHS in general.

29
Captain Ron  May 26, 2022 • 9:46:16pm
30
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 26, 2022 • 9:55:44pm

So I see “LatinX” is trending on twitter and check it out…

Seems the gun-humpers are jumping on NYT for using that term.

Some of the objectors may not be gun-humpers but people with Hispanic ancestry who are really hung up on some ongoing debate over “Latine” vs. “LatinX”.

Oh well, it’s all deflection, to avoid the real problem (guns.)

31
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  May 26, 2022 • 9:57:10pm

re: #30 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Edit: not NYT but NY Yankees.

32
William Lewis  May 26, 2022 • 10:03:20pm

re: #24 ckkatz

Hmm. Combo of 1 & 2 I think. Given the performance of the Russian army to this point even thought they have improved in the east, I would say that I don’t think they have improved enough to succeed, especially if Ukrainian Armed Forces begins deploying the western trained and equipped reserves.

33
BigPapa  May 26, 2022 • 10:04:53pm

Some of you, I’m not saying who (OK it was all you fakas) forgot my birthday this year. I’m giving you ample time to save up for next year.

34
Belafon  May 26, 2022 • 10:08:15pm
Elon Musk has to wonder if he squatted on his spurs by moving to Texas from California.

Tesla’s stock price has plummeted 40 percent, he’s launched an ill-considered attempt to buy Twitter, and Gov. Greg Abbott is deleting supportive tweets, trying to avoid getting caught up in allegations Musk engaged in indecent in-flight behavior.

The whole “Gone To Texas” thing isn’t working out for the world’s wealthiest man.

houstonchronicle.com

35
ckkatz  May 26, 2022 • 10:13:54pm

One current discussion in support for Ukraine is the US M142 HIMARS (High Mobility Artillery Rocket System) MLRS (Multiple Launched Rocket System) and the M270 MLRS. They both fire the same artillery rockets (and, apparently, anti-aircraft rockets), but the M142 is wheeled while the M270 is tracked. Variants of the rockets have ranges of 80 miles and 200 miles. They also have computerized location and fire direction capabilities that enable them to fire and then move away very quickly.

They would be useful to fire against Russian troop concentrations and Russian artillery from significant distances.

One issue that has concerned the US is whether the Ukrainians might be tempted to use them against infrastructure targets located in Russia proper. That may have been resolved. Or else ‘OBE’ (overcome by events).

I saw these tweets:

-

36
ckkatz  May 26, 2022 • 10:15:17pm

re: #33 BigPapa

So… cancel the order on the bacon pants?

37
Hecuba's daughter  May 26, 2022 • 10:19:12pm

Words!

DYY6Q6mkPak6A1lOQUCuhQ0P8XvX3YiZtZzB9mBvrONNJ5h+EOnAcV1ACpZ2s5fGnpzKpMlYeEDv/ALGzEJJDHgu9oT5wqAvjeLlJ9WHLRRpTh+nJtXXPGVRTAMr509xMAG4LjPmMRhuhUDTjXiZRPCQIuPyUvqNDuI7bVvjMpGaDekjCvN0AfFpt78Qm/Ll9rDCeOT8cww/4hnK11EbG5sFba4VD3AmWAEG/IVzrqqV314PhjKz0Wng2kLWlIZuNz2BON4KitPv8MmnhquV1QazL0yaVay3mPSZ5XrtO4/N3YKX9AKcSK6gRr7eT0V96lxGyRYWcPEe91p2OAFbEMSv+61gKag/28eluUyHNTM=

38
BigPapa  May 26, 2022 • 10:20:47pm

re: #36 ckkatz

So… cancel the order on the bacon pants?

That’s a light crispy no from me dawg.

39
jaunte  May 26, 2022 • 10:21:50pm
40
A Cranky One  May 26, 2022 • 10:22:43pm

Technically true.

re: #33 BigPapa

Some of you, I’m saying who (OK it was all you fakas) forgot my birthday this year. I’m giving you ample time to save up for next year.

[Embedded content]

Only if you promise to wear them at the dog park.

41
Hecuba's daughter  May 26, 2022 • 10:23:50pm

re: #26 jaunte

“These were like-minded people who used this chat group to talk about their shared interests in racial hatred, replacement theory and hatred of anyone who is Jewish, a person of color or not of European ancestry,” said one of the two law enforcement officials with close knowledge of the investigation. “What is especially upsetting is that these six people received advanced notice of the Buffalo shooting, about 30 minutes before it happened.

“The FBI has verified that none of these people called law enforcement to warn them about the shooting. The FBI database shows no advance tips from anyone that this shooting was about to happen.”

As RATM said 30 years ago,
“Some of those that work forces
Are the same that burn crosses”

42
BigPapa  May 26, 2022 • 10:27:34pm

re: #40 A Cranky One

Technically true.

Only if you promise to wear them at the dog park.

I wear them to show all you fakas how I don’t respond to peer pressure.

43
A Cranky One  May 26, 2022 • 10:31:05pm

So you wear them with crocs?

44
Belafon  May 26, 2022 • 10:32:34pm
45
BigPapa  May 26, 2022 • 10:39:06pm

re: #43 A Cranky One

So you wear them with crocs?

That’s the rules.

46
Captain Ron  May 26, 2022 • 10:46:31pm
47
Captain Ron  May 26, 2022 • 10:50:07pm

POV perspective.

48
ckkatz  May 26, 2022 • 11:04:28pm

Turkey, in particular, has a lot of countries just to its South who will be in deep trouble if the grain shortage increases.

-

-

-

49
Captain Ron  May 26, 2022 • 11:13:55pm

re: #48 ckkatz

Turkey, in particular, has a lot of countries just to its South who will be in deep trouble if the grain shortage increases.

[Embedded content]

Earlier today I read (RT?) Russia would escort grain ships after Ukraine de-mined Mariupol waters…

Suck it, pooter.

50
ckkatz  May 26, 2022 • 11:14:45pm

American Generals are usually the most conservative members of a very conservative organization. However, I found this thread an positive statement of our shared beliefs. And a good start as to what lays outside the boundaries of those shared beliefs.

Thread:

51
ckkatz  May 26, 2022 • 11:16:01pm

re: #49 Captain Ron

Yeah, I agree with you. That bs is a non-starter.

52
Targetpractice  May 26, 2022 • 11:19:33pm

re: #39 jaunte

[Embedded content]

A big part of it is the reality that they don’t really believe any of the things that they espouse, which is also a big part of the reason why it is impossible to embarrass them with their own hypocrisy. And why the only time they ever succumb to scandal…is when they’ve ceased being useful to the party. See also: Cawthorn, Madison.

53
Captain Ron  May 26, 2022 • 11:24:29pm

re: #52 Targetpractice

They have no fixed moral center. I’ve always considered myself a man of rather flexible morality, but they exist in a more of a nebulous fog mist of morality.

54
William Lewis  May 26, 2022 • 11:31:51pm
55
Cheechako  May 27, 2022 • 1:13:56am

Click….someone forgot to turn off the lights…I got ‘em.

See everyone tomorrow. I mean later today.

56
Moe Avattar  May 27, 2022 • 2:05:11am
57
Patricia Kayden  May 27, 2022 • 2:05:55am

re: #22 BigPapa

58
Targetpractice  May 27, 2022 • 2:21:54am

re: #57 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

They don’t view shootings in public schools as a problem, they view public schools as a problem.

59
Ming5000  May 27, 2022 • 2:42:02am

re: #50 ckkatz

American Generals are usually the most conservative members of a very conservative organization. However, I found this thread an positive statement of our shared beliefs. And a good start as to what lays outside the boundaries of those shared beliefs.

Thread:

I like Hertling. His definition of “conservative” clarifies a hackles -raising default position that conservatives maintain; that they are the patriots and the common sense people.
Herling says conservatives:
-love the USA. Liberals don’t?
-have pride in our flag. Liberals don’t?
-belief in fiscal and personal responsibility. WTF, liberals don’t?
-belief in strong defense and reasoned diplomacy. This one has nuance that can be discussed. There is no objective definition of strong defense or reasoned diplomacy.
-faith in our institutions. I suspect he includes Church in this one, along with our governmental institutions. This one also has a lot of room for discussion as to meaning.

Herling’s own definition has the same old “we are the adults in the room, you silly liberals” default claim.

60
Ming5000  May 27, 2022 • 2:46:21am

This is one of the memes that I usually enjoy.

61
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 3:19:13am

re: #33 BigPapa

Some of you, I’m not saying who (OK it was all you fakas) forgot my birthday this year. I’m giving you ample time to save up for next year.

MrsBP gonna allow that?

62
Patricia Kayden  May 27, 2022 • 3:22:26am
63
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 3:25:14am

re: #53 Captain Ron

They have no fixed moral center. I’ve always considered myself a man of rather flexible morality, but they exist in a more of a nebulous fog mist of morality.

64
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 3:29:18am

re: #54 William Lewis

The current view of the 2A in one sentence

to have power but not responsibility.

65
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 3:33:28am

re: #59 Ming5000

Humpty Dumpty conservatism. Conservatism means what I say it means.

66
Dr Lizardo  May 27, 2022 • 3:37:50am

Huh, here’s an interesting bit of news….

Gregory Yee
Fri, May 27, 2022, 3:13 AM
FILE - In this Jan. 20, 2011 file photo, former Manson family member and convicted murderer Patricia Krenwinkel listens to the ruling denying her parole at a hearing at the California Institution for Women in Corona, Calif. Krenwinkel participated in the Tate-LaBianca killings. She was a 19-year-old secretary when she met Manson at a party. Convicted of murder, she testified at a parole hearing 2016 that she repeatedly stabbed Folger at Tate’s home and stabbed Leno LaBianca in the stomach with a fork, then wrote “Helter Skelter,” ”Rise” and “Death to Pigs” on walls with his blood. She was most recently denied parole in June 2017. (AP Photo/Reed Saxon, File)
Former Manson follower and convicted murderer Patricia Krenwinkel, seen in 2011, was found suitable for parole by state prison officials Thursday. (Reed Saxon / Associated Press)
Charles Manson follower and convicted murderer Patricia Krenwinkel has been found suitable for parole, according to an announcement Thursday by state prison officials.

Krenwinkel, 74, is California’s longest-serving female inmate and was a participant in the 1969 murder of pregnant actress Sharon Tate by the Manson “family,” among other killings carried out during the group’s rampage across Los Angeles.

“The tentative decision will be reviewed by [the Board of Parole Hearings] legal division which can take up to 120 days,” according to a statement by Terry Thornton, a spokesperson for the state Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. “If the decision becomes final, the governor will have up to 30 days to review it.”

yahoo.com

67
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 3:39:43am

re: #11 jaunte

68
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 3:48:43am

Proof?: an 18 year old with no training and an AR 15 had armed and trained professionals cowering in hiding while he easily, freely walked into a school and slaughtered people

69
TarHellion  May 27, 2022 • 3:49:15am

Wordle 342 3/6

⬜⬜🟩🟩🟨
⬜🟨🟩🟩⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Great way kick off a Friday! Hope everyone has a safe and happy holiday weekend!

70
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 3:54:18am

re: #68 Dangerman

71
Targetpractice  May 27, 2022 • 3:55:14am

Bit of dark humor, courtesy of our friends over at The Onion:

72
Dopamine Fish  May 27, 2022 • 3:56:25am

This was a pretty rough 3. I struggled pretty hard to find a word to fit the pattern I had.

Wordle 342 3/6

⬛🟨🟩🟩⬛
⬛⬛🟩🟩🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

73
Dopamine Fish  May 27, 2022 • 3:57:33am
74
Patricia Kayden  May 27, 2022 • 3:58:15am
75
Dopamine Fish  May 27, 2022 • 4:04:37am

re: #74 Patricia Kayden

I’ve kinda seen two different schools of thought on this. One is the usual line of thought I’ve seen here and lots of places, as in your post, that fortifying schools is a ridiculous idea on its face because for God’s sake, why should we have to turn our schools into fortresses?

The other comes from people like @AkivaMCohen, who says, “Yes, limits on doors - BUT rather than saying, ‘This, and only this,’ as the Republicans are, we need to say, ‘This, AND ALSO sensible limits on gun control - oh, and since this was your idea, you better pay for AT LEAST this.” In other words, moving the debate from, “Is it a good idea to fortify our schools against mass shooters” - since, in the current climate of “guns for all,” it is a good idea - to, “We agree that fortifying schools is necessary in the current climate, but should we change that climate so that schools no longer need to be fortified in the future?”

To be truthful, I see merits to both arguments. The thing is, yes, we shouldn’t HAVE to fortify our schools, but we DO. If we don’t fortify our schools, we’re leaving our children at risk. It is a ridiculous idea, but it is a ridiculous idea only in an ideal world where an 18-year-old man can’t walk into a gun store, buy two weapons specifically designed to kill people in the most efficient way possible, then turn around and walk into a school and do exactly that. In a ridiculous world where that is not only possible but probable, it actually makes a perverse amount of sense to fortify our schools, EVEN AS we work to make the world a less ridiculous place. I dunno. I’m kinda on the fence about the whole thing, to be honest.

76
No Malarkey!  May 27, 2022 • 4:05:11am

re: #66 Dr Lizardo

Huh, here’s an interesting bit of news….

yahoo.com

At age 74, she is probably not going to commit any more murders, and prison is an awfully expensive nursing home for the elderly.

77
No Malarkey!  May 27, 2022 • 4:08:05am

re: #75 Dopamine Fish

I’ve kinda seen two different schools of thought on this. One is the usual line of thought I’ve seen here and lots of places, as in your post, that fortifying schools is a ridiculous idea on its face because for God’s sake, why should we have to turn our schools into fortresses?

The other comes from people like @AkivaMCohen, who says, “Yes, limits on doors - BUT rather than saying, ‘This, and only this,’ as the Republicans are, we need to say, ‘This, AND ALSO sensible limits on gun control - oh, and since this was your idea, you better pay for AT LEAST this.” In other words, moving the debate from, “Is it a good idea to fortify our schools against mass shooters” - since, in the current climate of “guns for all,” it is a good idea - to, “We agree that fortifying schools is necessary in the current climate, but should we change that climate so that schools no longer need to be fortified in the future?”

To be truthful, I see merits to both arguments. The thing is, yes, we shouldn’t HAVE to fortify our schools, but we DO. If we don’t fortify our schools, we’re leaving our children at risk. It is a ridiculous idea, but it is a ridiculous idea only in an ideal world where an 18-year-old man can’t walk into a gun store, buy two weapons specifically designed to kill people in the most efficient way possible, then turn around and walk into a school and do exactly that. In a ridiculous world where that is not only possible but probable, it actually makes a perverse amount of sense to fortify our schools, EVEN AS we work to make the world a less ridiculous place. I dunno. I’m kinda on the fence about the whole thing, to be honest.

The thing is, the Republicans proposing this won’t vote to raise taxes by a single penny to pay for it, so it would have to come out of the school budget for everything else, turning our schools into little more than prisons.

78
Dr Lizardo  May 27, 2022 • 4:09:01am

re: #76 No Malarkey!

At age 74, she is probably not going to commit any more murders, and prison is an awfully expensive nursing home for the elderly.

And Charlie ain’t around any more, either. And I highly doubt Krenwinkle is thinking about starting some new 21st century version of the Manson Family.

79
Patricia Kayden  May 27, 2022 • 4:09:06am

re: #75 Dopamine Fish

So we fortify the doors and the gunman finds a way to smuggle a gun into the school. Then what? The issue is gun control legislation to prevent criminal and underage children getting their hands on weapons. Republicans in red states could have funded fortified doors if they actually believed that that was a solution to school shootings.

80
TarHellion  May 27, 2022 • 4:10:21am

re: #72 Dopamine Fish

Totally agree! If guess number 3 hadn’t been correct, don’t know what could have been tried next.

81
No Malarkey!  May 27, 2022 • 4:12:08am

re: #58 Targetpractice

They don’t view shootings in public schools as a problem, they view public schools as a problem.

Looking at Trump’s feed on Truth Social, there is an enormous amount of Q postings, and one of their big issues is Separation of Education and State.

82
Dopamine Fish  May 27, 2022 • 4:12:12am

re: #79 Patricia Kayden

So we fortify the doors and the gunman finds a way to smuggle a gun into the school. Then what? The issue is gun control legislation to prevent criminal and underage children getting their hands on weapons. Republicans in red states could have funded fortified doors if they actually believed that that was a solution to school shootings.

Again, I’m not disagreeing. The point is, okay, fine, Republicans, let’s agree on one thing: Fortify our schools. Oh, what’s that? You don’t want to pay for it? But it was your fucking idea, and we agreed with it and are willing to fund it, so I guess that means you guys really are full of shit and are willing to do absolutely nothing to stop the next school shooting. Wild guess: If we were to take this approach, and agree with them that limits on doors is a reasonable precaution “in the current unsafe environment where gunmen are allowed to walk free in this country and do as they please,” they’d immediately reverse course and tell us how ridiculous it is that we believe that turning schools into fortresses would keep our kids safe from roving bands of feral gunmen.

83
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 4:12:13am

re: #77 No Malarkey!

The thing is, the Republicans proposing this won’t vote to raise taxes by a single penny to pay for it, so it would have to come out of the school budget for everything else, turning our schools into little more than prisons.

Engineering fixes are usually the most effective and long-lasting. But designing and building schools that are less murderer-friendly would be very expensive. In the context of our existing social environment, there isn’t going to be a quick fix.

84
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 4:13:39am

re: #77 No Malarkey!

The thing is, the Republicans proposing this won’t vote to raise taxes by a single penny to pay for it, so it would have to come out of the school budget for everything else, turning our schools into little more than prisons.

Reduce teachers salaries.
They’re just cannon fodder anyway ////

85
Dopamine Fish  May 27, 2022 • 4:15:56am

re: #81 No Malarkey!

Looking at Trump’s feed on Truth Social, there is an enormous amount of Q postings, and one of their big issues is Separation of Education and State.

I mentioned it yesterday, but the ultimate victory in the culture war would be for them to force homeschooling on everybody. That would let them completely scrap any semblance of public education standards, as well as forcing parents to keep at least one family member at home to teach kids (goodbye single moms or career moms, a notch in the belt for anti-feminism), and encouraging people to avoid having kids outside of marriage (and a parallel ban on contraception would then complete their moral-legislation goal of penalizing having sex outside of marriage).

86
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 4:16:06am

Ted Cruz is a walking argument in favor of Dork Control

87
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 4:17:24am

re: #86 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Ted Cruz is a walking argument in favor of Dork Control closing the Canadian border.

88
Patricia Kayden  May 27, 2022 • 4:20:21am

re: #87 Decatur Deb

Boo. As a Canadian (now US citizen), I have to boo!!

89
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 4:21:34am

re: #88 Patricia Kayden

Boo. As a Canadian (now US citizen), I have to boo!!

Sorry about that. Y’all had your chance to leave him for the wolves.

90
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 4:21:56am

re: #83 Decatur Deb

Engineering fixes are usually the most effective and long-lasting. But designing and building schools that are less murderer-friendly would be very expensive. In the context of our existing social environment, there isn’t going to be a quick fix.

It’s somewhat like the earlier days of the internet and hacking.

It was quite easy.
Then awareness, countermeasures, advanced tech, detection etc.
Hardware solutions, software, better design techniques, etc.

Now it’s much harder.
But the very clever and determined still get through, sometimes.

Now there’s phishing. Through email. And text messages. The nigerian Prince.

It’s a sort of constantly moving whack-a-mole

91
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 4:22:47am

re: #26 jaunte

“These were like-minded people who used this chat group to talk about their shared interests in racial hatred, replacement theory and hatred of anyone who is Jewish, a person of color or not of European ancestry,” said one of the two law enforcement officials with close knowledge of the investigation. “What is especially upsetting is that these six people received advanced notice of the Buffalo shooting, about 30 minutes before it happened.

“The FBI has verified that none of these people called law enforcement to warn them about the shooting. The FBI database shows no advance tips from anyone that this shooting was about to happen.”

Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws could have stopped him
Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws could have stopped him
Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws could have stopped him
Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws could have stopped him
Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws could have stopped him
Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws could have stopped him
Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws could have stopped him
Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws could have stopped him
Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws could have stopped him
Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws could have stopped him…

92
Dr Lizardo  May 27, 2022 • 4:26:24am

Looks like an IT crash is affecting air travel between the UK and Europe:

Britain’s families faced huge queues at airports across the country today with more than 30,000 easyJet passengers now affected by hundreds of flight cancellations on the eve of the half-term holidays.

An IT crash involving the budget airline has left the holiday plans of families in the lurch, while staff at a series of airports and ports were today struggling to cope with the huge numbers of people flying abroad.

EasyJet cancelled a further 14 flights to and from London Gatwick Airport this morning after calling off more than 200 yesterday in the latest blow for an industry struggling to ramp up again following the pandemic.

The plans of Liverpool football fans hoping to reach the Champions League final against Real Madrid in Paris tomorrow were also thrown into chaos after flights to the French capital were axed from Manchester and Bristol.

dailymail.co.uk

93
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 4:26:58am

re: #85 Dopamine Fish

I mentioned it yesterday, but the ultimate victory in the culture war would be for them to force homeschooling on everybody. That would let them completely scrap any semblance of public education standards, as well as forcing parents to keep at least one family member at home to teach kids (goodbye single moms or career moms, a notch in the belt for anti-feminism), and encouraging people to avoid having kids outside of marriage (and a parallel ban on contraception would then complete their moral-legislation goal of penalizing having sex outside of marriage).

Everyone wouldn’t be locked in their own individual homes.
Families and neighborhoods would be creative, innovative. Especially those that have jobs.
Maybe they’d cluster and find a group solution.

They might call it a “school”, after like what fish do.

94
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 4:28:39am

re: #91 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws can stop them.
Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws can stop them.
Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws can stop them.
Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws can stop them.
Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws can stop them.
Lone wolf, mentally ill, no laws can stop them.

When we develop typologies of school/crowd killers we’ll see differing causes and different solutions. The buffalo killer was ideological/racial. The Columbine duo were driven by some kind of personal angst. There are going to be overlaps and other types. That’s why we really want these mofos alive—for teardown and analysis.

95
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 4:30:27am
96
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 4:32:03am

On Ted cruzs American exceptional ism

97
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 4:34:30am

re: #33 BigPapa

Some of you, I’m not saying who (OK it was all you fakas) forgot my birthday this year. I’m giving you ample time to save up for next year.

Knock on Wurst!

98
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 4:35:04am

re: #96 Dangerman

On Ted cruzs American exceptional ism

He left off our incarceration rate, which is structurally a very inefficient version of slavery.

99
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 4:36:16am
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) has canceled his planned Friday live speech at the National Rifle Association (NRA) convention in Houston following a deadly mass shooting at a Texas elementary school this week.

He went all coward

100
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 4:38:08am

re: #99 Dangerman

He went all coward

Busy working on the Texas energy grid problem.

101
HRH Stanley Sea  May 27, 2022 • 4:41:06am

Luckyyyy

🏌‍♀️

aUdFDYUWD1xQP563YnYff8qPHqgnHHxOrRELqgTacNhyuRYhmIE39nKW6wkEX7PGJP7PcZ2OrxNrPJXllH+0+d4fW8m28DGPyiFxLYvatccrhvLquhUZBPFGrMTegc1sJKvpHJH5ht4cnq/JM3AQG4a0p50lDRkEcSjMsDXS73M=

102
No Malarkey!  May 27, 2022 • 4:41:33am

re: #99 Dangerman

He went all coward

Just think, he could’ve used that forum to advocate for measures popular even with NRA members, such as universal background checks and red flag laws.

103
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 4:43:12am

re: #102 No Malarkey!

Just think, he could’ve used that forum to advocate for measures popular even with NRA members, such as universal background checks and red flag laws.

Looks like he’s just gonna posture and lie a lot

Abbott will hold a press conference at Uvalde High School at 3:30 p.m. on Friday, according to a press release from his office,

104
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 4:45:08am

Top 10 Countries with the highest rate of incarceration

United States — 629
Rwanda — 580
Turkmenistan — 576
El Salvador — 564
Cuba — 510
Palau — 478
British Virgin Islands (U.K. territory) — 477
Thailand — 445
Panama — 423
Saint Kitts and Nevis — 423

Top 10 Countries with the most people in prison

United States — 2,068,800
China — 1,690,000
Brazil — 811,707
India — 478,600
Russia — 471,490
Thailand — 309,282
Turkey — 291,198
Indonesia — 266,259
Mexico — 220,866
Iran — 189,000
worldpopulationreview.com

105
sagehen  May 27, 2022 • 4:49:37am

To answer Cruz’ question, the reason everybody is so eager to come to the US, the reason our “exceptionalism” is such a worldwide draw… is because those people are working off of outdated information.

We did indeed used to be the greatest country in the world.

106
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 4:54:15am

re: #105 sagehen

To answer Cruz’ question, the reason everybody is so eager to come to the US, the reason our “exceptionalism” is such a worldwide draw… is because those people are working off of outdated information.

We did indeed used to be the greatest country in the world.

The date someone proposes for the end of that era makes a very good psychographic.

107
lawhawk  May 27, 2022 • 4:58:48am

re: #54 William Lewis

9/11 changed perspectives on cops and firefighters and first responders generally.

We saw them rush into the buildings to try and save lives. Hundreds never made it out. 343 firefighters died. Nearly 100 cops across multiple police departments.

Hundreds more have died since from 9/11 exposures.

We called them heroes, and they were - for doing heroic actions to try and save lives.

But the reality is also that many of those who died should never have died. Comms failures meant that those in the North Tower should have been ordered to evacuate but didn’t. They never had a chance because radio systems that were identified as a problem from the 1993 WTC bombing forward, never got upgraded under the Rudy admin. Those deaths are on Rudy.

But 9/11 events also suggested that everyone in law enforcement and firefighters are heroes when that simply isn’t the case. We have too many inconvenient facts and situations to show otherwise. Even from the NYPD we have tons of cases where they murdered unarmed people, violated their rights and more. We see that in practically every corner of the nation - police cover up their own malfeasance and the criminal justice system is fixed - to give cops cover when they do bad things. Prosecutors who don’t investigate or prosecute. Prosecutors who bring lesser charges. Prosecutors who fail to administer justice. Judges who do the same.

Hero worship is a dangerous thing, especially when the truth is so much murkier. It’s a story people tell to comfort them, but the reality is that it provides excuses when things go badly and remediation is required.

108
Jay C  May 27, 2022 • 5:00:31am

re: #106 Decatur Deb

The date someone proposes for the end of that era makes a very good psychographic.

November 8, 2016

109
William Lewis  May 27, 2022 • 5:00:43am

re: #106 Decatur Deb

The date someone proposes for the end of that era makes a very good psychographic.

I’d say a good argument can be made for either Nov 22, 1963 or November 4, 1980.

110
Dopamine Fish  May 27, 2022 • 5:01:24am

re: #107 lawhawk

I think the other side effect of this is that cops, in particular the aggressive “probably-shouldn’t-be-cops” kind, felt emboldened to do whatever they wanted, because, “Hey, we’re heroes, right? The community venerates us and will support us no matter what.” Like, adding the hero worship made the bad apples come out into the open, but now there are idiots out here saying that taking the hero worship away will make them not want to be heroes. I find that unpersuasive; they were heroes before we worshipped them as heroes. There will always be good people who will be heroes, even without a reward. I think the hero worship encourages the people who shouldn’t be heroes, more than anything.

111
William Lewis  May 27, 2022 • 5:05:08am

re: #107 lawhawk

There has always been a problem in the Army of the “John Wayne”; the one who sees himself as a hero in a romantic battle and damn the consequences. Couple that fantasy with steroids and you get modern police.

112
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 5:05:47am

re: #108 Jay C

November 8, 2016

That’s very likely my final date. Quite a whiplash from Election Day 2008.

(I can remember laying in bed in my 6th grade dormitory, around 1956, with the grateful sense that I was American at the peak of it’s curve. There was also the sense of coming decline, but no feeling for what triggered that. Perhaps just a good History teacher.)

113
Ming5000  May 27, 2022 • 5:21:04am
114
William Lewis  May 27, 2022 • 5:28:28am

re: #113 Ming5000

Classic example of “Correlation is not causation”. The same rifles, with slight cosmetic differences, were for sale in the US before, during and after the AWB. There is a jump in the shootings the but the AWB is not related to it, I would say.

115
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 5:30:14am

re: #114 William Lewis

Classic example of “Correlation is not causation”. The same rifles, with slight cosmetic differences, were for sale in the US before, during and after the AWB. There is a jump in the shootings the but the AWB is not related to it, I would say.

But the statistical bounce is presumably real, so what else happened in time to trigger the rise?

116
lawhawk  May 27, 2022 • 5:34:09am

Good for the Yankees. They pressed ahead with their thread on gun violence in the US.

They did more to advance the cause for gun safety and saving lives than the GOP have done.

117
lawhawk  May 27, 2022 • 5:35:09am
118
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 5:36:12am

re: #115 Decatur Deb

But the statistical bounce is presumably real, so what else happened in time to trigger the rise?

Reviewing the major news events of 2005 show mass shootings are already well under way. Looking backwards now.
en.wikipedia.org

119
William Lewis  May 27, 2022 • 5:37:41am

re: #115 Decatur Deb

But the statistical bounce is presumably real, so what else happened in time to trigger the rise?

That is the question that I’d love an answer for.

120
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 5:38:44am

re: #119 William Lewis

That is the question that I’d love an answer for.

Like most societal drivers, it’s going to be a self-reinforcing mix of things.

121
Eventual Carrion  May 27, 2022 • 5:41:17am

re: #69 TarHellion

Wordle 342 3/6

⬜⬜🟩🟩🟨
⬜🟨🟩🟩⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Great way kick off a Friday! Hope everyone has a safe and happy holiday weekend!

And a 3/6 for the day for me also.

Wordle 342 3/6

⬜🟨⬜🟨⬜
🟩🟨🟩🟨⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

122
jeffreyw  May 27, 2022 • 5:41:46am

Random Raccoon

Good morning!

123
Patricia Kayden  May 27, 2022 • 5:43:43am

re: #95 Dangerman

But has Kinzinger ever voted for gun control legislation? He’s leaving so all of a sudden he’s courageous.

124
Patricia Kayden  May 27, 2022 • 5:47:09am
125
Belafon  May 27, 2022 • 5:48:02am

re: #123 Patricia Kayden

But has Kinzinger ever voted for gun control legislation? He’s leaving so all of a sudden he’s courageous.

Is he retiring?

126
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 5:48:14am

re: #119 William Lewis

That is the question that I’d love an answer for.

On the macro scale, the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq fit the timeline to be era-defining background drivers.

128
Dr Lizardo  May 27, 2022 • 5:51:08am

re: #124 Patricia Kayden

LOLOL are the wild pigs shooting back or something? Is Cassidy such a lousy shot that he can’t take out a wild pig with a .30-06 bolt action (that was always my preferred hunting long rifle)?

129
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 5:51:32am

re: #115 Decatur Deb

But the statistical bounce is presumably real, so what else happened in time to trigger the rise?

There became a perverse acceptability to it.
Once it was abhorrent. Just the thought of mass murder of children.
Then it became clear how one party and a good chunk of the country reacted.
Especially when it was done by a child.
These monsters were not seen as pariahs.
No they weren’t exactly glorified.
Benignly acceptable, certainly.

Proof? They’re blaming doors.

130
lawhawk  May 27, 2022 • 5:51:45am

re: #124 Patricia Kayden

If you need an AR-15 to hunt, you fucking suck at hunting. Period.

The only thing the AR-15 is good for is maximizing a body count. Spray and pray is not a hunting strategy, but you can shoot up a school pretty damned good.

131
No Malarkey!  May 27, 2022 • 5:54:10am

re: #128 Dr Lizardo

LOLOL are the wild pigs shooting back or something? Is Cassidy such a lousy shot that he can’t take out a wild pig with a .30-06 bolt action (that was always my preferred hunting long rifle)?

When you realize “feral pigs” is code for “black people”, it all makes sense.

132
Eventual Carrion  May 27, 2022 • 5:54:41am

re: #92 Dr Lizardo

Looks like an IT crash is affecting air travel between the UK and Europe:

dailymail.co.uk

Why won’t Biden do something about this situation?

133
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 5:55:49am

re: #102 No Malarkey!

Just think, he could’ve used that forum to advocate for measures popular even with NRA members, such as universal background checks and red flag laws.

He only goes there to suck ass in exchange for campaign contributions, and he is not in much of a position to be a cheerleader for unrestricted access to weaponry.

134
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 5:55:51am

re: #132 Eventual Carrion

Why won’t Biden do something about this situation?

…or anticipate it months ago

135
Dopamine Fish  May 27, 2022 • 5:56:33am

re: #124 Patricia Kayden

The feral pigs thing, I swear to God, wasn’t that a meme? Is he actually serious?

136
Dr Lizardo  May 27, 2022 • 5:56:37am

re: #131 No Malarkey!

When you realize “feral pigs” is code for “black people”, it all makes sense.

You may well be right on that one.

Back later….off to work.

137
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 5:57:17am

re: #111 William Lewis

There has always been a problem in the Army of the “John Wayne”; the one who sees himself as a hero in a romantic battle and damn the consequences. Couple that fantasy with steroids and you get modern police.

“John Wayne” in the sense of someone who got a draft deferment in WW2 and then spent the rest of his life trying to make up for it.

138
lawhawk  May 27, 2022 • 5:57:20am

Morning music:

Movements come and movements go
Leaders speak, movements cease
When their heads are flown
‘Cause all these punks
Got bullets in their heads
Departments of police, the judges, the feds
Networks at work, keepin’ people calm
You know they went after King
When he spoke out on Vietnam
He turned the power to the have-nots
And then came the shot

Youtube Video

139
Dopamine Fish  May 27, 2022 • 5:57:34am

Yeah, here we go: knowyourmeme.com

Jesus H. Fucking Christ. These people are IDIOTS.

140
lawhawk  May 27, 2022 • 5:57:46am

re: #135 Dopamine Fish

The feral pigs thing, I swear to God, wasn’t that a meme? Is he actually serious?

It was a thing last summer. So of course it’s back…

141
No Malarkey!  May 27, 2022 • 5:58:00am

re: #106 Decatur Deb

The date someone proposes for the end of that era makes a very good psychographic.

December 12, 2000, the date the Supreme Court canceled the Florida recount and anointed George Bush President.

142
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 5:59:40am

re: #141 No Malarkey!

December 12, 2000, the date the Supreme Court canceled the Florida recount and anointed George Bush President.

For my FIL, a hardcore WWII and Korea combat vet, it was Mai Lai.

143
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 6:03:29am

re: #105 sagehen

To answer Cruz’ question, the reason everybody is so eager to come to the US, the reason our “exceptionalism” is such a worldwide draw… is because those people are working off of outdated information.

We did indeed used to be the greatest country in the world.

I believe that Historians will see 9/11 as our high-water mark. We did not start going down hill immediately, but we have been at best stable (under Obama) and at worst regressive (under Trump) ever since.

If Trump and the GOP win in 2024, I believe the damage will be irreparable, best case scenario will take decades and generations to recover.

144
No Malarkey!  May 27, 2022 • 6:04:54am

re: #142 Decatur Deb

For my FIL, a hardcore WWII and Korea combat vet, it was Mai Lai.

Who knows how different history might have developed if LBJ hadn’t made the tragic error of using the Gulf of Tonkin resolution to deeply commit to war in Vietnam.

145
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 6:06:29am

re: #144 No Malarkey!

Who knows how different history might have developed if LBJ hadn’t made the tragic error of using the Gulf of Tonkin resolution to deeply commit to war in Vietnam.

He needed conservative support for his Great Society program. He showed the folly of trying to fight a two-front war.

146
No Malarkey!  May 27, 2022 • 6:09:54am

re: #143 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I believe that Historians will see 9/11 as our high-water mark. We did not start going down hill immediately, but we have been at best stable (under Obama) and at worst regressive (under Trump) ever since.

The 21st Century has certainly be turbulent. The defeat of Trump’s hand picked election stealers in the Georgia GOP primaries has given me some hope that we may be able to navigate through the 2024 elections and emerge with our democracy battered but intact and a chance to build a better future.

147
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 6:20:59am

re: #146 No Malarkey!

The 21st Century has certainly be turbulent. The defeat of Trump’s hand picked election stealers in the Georgia GOP primaries has given me some hope that we may be able to navigate through the 2024 elections and emerge with our democracy battered but intact and a chance to build a better future.

I hope that our electoral system is robust enough to weather this all-out assault on its integrity and reliability.

Up to now, it has been based on mutual goodwill and trust with only a modicum of supervision from each side. But now we have one side out ready to undermine it, to simply refuse to register or certify outcomes that it does not like.

148
Dr. Matt  May 27, 2022 • 6:22:11am

149
Dangerman  May 27, 2022 • 6:22:14am
Southern Baptist leaders on Thursday evening released a list of alleged church-related sexual abuse offenders that denomination heads had kept secret for more than a decade,” the Washington Post reports.

Groomers

150
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 6:25:09am

re: #149 Dangerman

Southern Baptist leaders on Thursday evening released a list of alleged church-related sexual abuse offenders that denomination heads had kept secret for more than a decade,” the Washington Post reports.
Groomers

Institutionalists.

In any organization where authority proceeds from the top down, that means responsibility also goes all the way back up to the top.

Thus, it is in the interest of the Institution at large to keep quiet about any errors that might reflect badly on it overall.

151
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 6:34:20am

Off to ride the hamster bike. If we are to have Civil War 2.0, gotta be fit for it.

152
No Malarkey!  May 27, 2022 • 6:35:58am

re: #147 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I hope that our electoral system is robust enough to weather this all-out assault on its integrity and reliability.

Up to now, it has been based on mutual goodwill and trust with only a modicum of supervision from each side. But now we have one side out ready to undermine it, to simply refuse to register or certify outcomes that it does not like.

And that is why the defeat of the election stealing faction in the Georgia GOP primary gives me hope. Kemp and Raffensperger are far from good guys, but at least they didn’t arbitrarily void black votes to reverse the election just because Trump asked them to, which Perdue and Hice would’ve done in 2024. I’m still hoping Democrats win those races, of course, and since Trump hates Kemp and Raffensperger, they may have a chance.

153
lawhawk  May 27, 2022 • 6:38:07am
154
Dopamine Fish  May 27, 2022 • 6:40:07am

re: #153 lawhawk

The right has a scapegoat now. They are going to focus hard on the lack of police response, which gives them an excuse not to talk about gun control, because clearly a proper response from the police force would have stopped this tragedy before too many lives were lost. Left unsaid is whether or not the officers would have been killed; how many people might have been killed before the police responded at all; the fact that NOBODY WOULD HAVE DIED IF THE GUNMAN HAD BEEN UNABLE TO GET GUNS SO EASILY.

155
No Malarkey!  May 27, 2022 • 6:45:30am

re: #154 Dopamine Fish

The right has a scapegoat now. They are going to focus hard on the lack of police response, which gives them an excuse not to talk about gun control, because clearly a proper response from the police force would have stopped this tragedy before too many lives were lost. Left unsaid is whether or not the officers would have been killed; how many people might have been killed before the police responded at all; the fact that NOBODY WOULD HAVE DIED IF THE GUNMAN HAD BEEN UNABLE TO GET GUNS SO EASILY.

And ignores the fact that even if the cops had stormed in with guns blazing, there’s no guarantee that any lives would’ve been saved. In fact, people may have died in the cross fire.

156
Sherlock Hound  May 27, 2022 • 6:47:42am

re: #110 Dopamine Fish

That’s why I despise veteran worship. What’s going on in Russia is a very intensified version of the American zeitgeist.

157
Dr. Matt  May 27, 2022 • 6:48:56am

The problems:

School doors
Video games
Movies
Mental health
Lack of biblical teaching
CRT
LGBTQ

Not the problem:

Guns

.

///

158
Sherlock Hound  May 27, 2022 • 6:49:25am

re: #112 Decatur Deb

That’s very likely my final date. Quite a whiplash from Election Day 2008.

(I can remember laying in bed in my 6th grade dormitory, around 1956, with the grateful sense that I was American at the peak of it’s curve. There was also the sense of coming decline, but no feeling for what triggered that. Perhaps just a good History teacher.)

I think 9/11 is a good candidate for the date of our decline.

159
Dopamine Fish  May 27, 2022 • 6:51:58am

re: #156 Sherlock Hound

That’s why I despise veteran worship. What’s going on in Russia is a very intensified version of the American zeitgeist.

According to Christianity, we’re not supposed to put other people on a pedestal. There is only One who is good. Everyone else is just a human, a sinner, no one special but for the grace of God. Our accomplishments are mere flecks in the paint on the canvas of the universe. I am glad we have brave people to serve and protect, but they make mistakes like the rest of us, and should be held accountable as such.

160
Sherlock Hound  May 27, 2022 • 6:54:23am

re: #131 No Malarkey!

When you realize “feral pigs” is code for “black people”, it all makes sense.

I always thought that the “30-50 pigs” joke trope was a “14 words” dog whistle.

161
No Malarkey!  May 27, 2022 • 6:54:29am

re: #158 Sherlock Hound

I think 9/11 is a good candidate for the date of our decline.

I picked the date Bush v. Gore was decided, because Bush would’ve used the false accusation of Iraqi WMD to justify the Iraq War even if 9/11 hadn’t occurred.

162
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 6:55:11am

re: #152 No Malarkey!

And that is why the defeat of the election stealing faction in the Georgia GOP primary gives me hope. Kemp and Raffensperger are far from good guys, but at least they didn’t arbitrarily void black votes to reverse the election just because Trump asked them to, which Perdue and Hice would’ve done in 2024.

2024 was a close-run thing, but even with a record GOP turnout, it could have gone differently without a handful of GOP state election officials who still possessed some shreds of decency and fairness.

Two problems: those officials are long gone, replaced by loyal party hacks, and we cannot count on the Democratic turnout being as overwhelming as it was after four years of Trump and a year of Covid.

163
Dr. Matt  May 27, 2022 • 6:56:20am

re: #158 Sherlock Hound

I think 9/11 is a good candidate for the date of our decline.

I always considered the popularity of Rush Limbaugh in the 90s as that index date. He helped poison the minds of millions and millions of people.

164
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 6:57:45am

re: #163 Dr. Matt

I always considered the popularity of Rush Limbaugh in the 90s as that index date.

Ronald Reagan’s cuts to public education is what heralded in that entire generation of RW radio commentary fans and Fox viewers. All that ignorance really came home to roost in its wake.

165
Rightwingconspirator  May 27, 2022 • 6:58:13am

re: #157 Dr. Matt
I read through the NRA statement on their web page.

They say they have sympathy for the families and victims. That sympathy is never taken to practical action.

They say they salute the courage of those that tried to help but oppose helping to stop this from happening again.

They say it was “a lone gunman”. And yet there are so many of them.

They say we should pray. Pray for what exactly?

They will recognize their patriotic members. IOW thanks for the money.

They say they will redouble their commitment to making our schools secure. What of the home and workplace?

166
Belafon  May 27, 2022 • 6:58:21am

re: #112 Decatur Deb

That’s very likely my final date. Quite a whiplash from Election Day 2008.

(I can remember laying in bed in my 6th grade dormitory, around 1956, with the grateful sense that I was American at the peak of it’s curve. There was also the sense of coming decline, but no feeling for what triggered that. Perhaps just a good History teacher.)

“Project Wetback” is probably a good marker.

167
Crush White Nationalism  May 27, 2022 • 6:58:45am

I just learned of this from the Lovett or Leave it podcast. The guest mentioned that scientists call it the JWST rather than mentioning Webb by name because he was trash.

JAMES WEBB HATED GAY PEOPLE. WHY ARE WE NAMING A TELESCOPE AFTER HIM? (The Byte)

168
Jay C  May 27, 2022 • 7:02:12am

re: #144 No Malarkey!

Who knows how different history might have developed if LBJ hadn’t made the tragic error of using the Gulf of Tonkin resolution to deeply commit to war in Vietnam.

It’s worth recalling that Johnson’s increased support for the RVN (post-Tonkin) - up to and including the significant direct commitment of US forces - was only seen as a “tragic error” in retrospect. At the time (and for a long while thereafter) it was seen more as a “regrettable necessity”, and the GOTR was just a plausible excuse for what (IIRC) US planners saw as an inevitable escalation of support to try to keep South Vietnam from collapsing completely.

169
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 7:06:29am

History is a complex discipline: America has always had these rays of hope: JFK, the Roe v. Wade ruling, actually removing Nixon from power over Watergate, ACA passing (and surviving), SCOTUS legalizing gay marriage nationwide, decriminalized marijuana etc…

Then we have the JFK assassination, Kent State, the Mariel Boatlift, the War on Drugs, Wars over oil, and of course Trump and the end of Roe v Wade.

I have not written America off yet, but I fear that four more years of Trump will result in damage that will take decades and generations to recover from.

170
mmmirele  May 27, 2022 • 7:07:59am

re: #18 ckkatz

Something to consider:

When under stress, members of an organization fall back on their training and their understanding of their job.

Look at what the Uvalde Police Department did when they were under stress. They did fall back on their training and their understanding of their job.

Rather than stop the shooter, they attempted to control the local population. Because they, just like the Ferguson, Mo Police Department understood their job was to control the local population. Not protect them.

Militaries whose job is to control the local population rather than protect them also collapse like this.

I generally call these organizations corrupt. Because they lie to outsiders about their mission.

*DAMN* I think you’re absolutely on to something here.

171
John Hughes  May 27, 2022 • 7:11:06am

re: #70 Dangerman

“nothing says ban assault rifles [ high capacity semi-automatic weapons ] like cops being scared of the shooter who has one

That is, after all, how the machine gun ban was passed.

(Terminology “fixed” to shut any passing nit-pickers up).

172
darthstar  May 27, 2022 • 7:14:28am
173
Rightwingconspirator  May 27, 2022 • 7:16:11am

Follow the numbers and find reality. Paged

Analysis: Gun deaths dropped in California as they rose in Texas: Gun control seems to work

(Edited to fix link)

174
darthstar  May 27, 2022 • 7:19:43am

Warriors won last night. Game 1 nosebleed tickets start at $730/ea on Stubhub. Courtside start at $17,000.

175
The Pie Overlord!  May 27, 2022 • 7:22:35am

Meh.

E9Yn4eiV1+nVTUXzUafjMM+Y8JWoW5c9FUQVMxKaWi/xBocNwjmI4PUzoGZj/ExRlNhdGPgEIis1Z6fYREUXeDg57KnSy/eXrA0w28K/h16XEwxJBkIyIdXmCHL2toGhRkkUTAEFAaq1BKEqDHbc0IKCUlG5amrhBB2y7FtP1VfJbDv66PDCz5zmDf/rcag6iLN8J5nlkUoNAoS9/c3u0p6k2nZH0C676ULXuqTkuq3p+TLfvDtJKZ+MtgV5x9k7jjAGIFHFlCvypMdq2VjBophxcRVPeeAGzP2B9DRdMHp5xy8ME97pwGkZ/x4Tm6GWUwA4HR9OuaVVKEC7IUjERaOBNrJluMZ5ng5GxkHe6JU=

176
Belafon  May 27, 2022 • 7:24:32am

re: #171 John Hughes

That is, after all, how the machine gun ban was passed.

(Terminology “fixed” to shut any passing nit-pickers up).

In my long thing at the top I wrote weapons designed for military use.

Edit: “semi-automatic weapons that were originally designed for the military” to copy exactly what I said.

177
John Hughes  May 27, 2022 • 7:25:26am

re: #75 Dopamine Fish

Problem being that Robb elementary was protected in more or less every way that the gun nuts said it should be.

178
Belafon  May 27, 2022 • 7:39:13am

re: #177 John Hughes

Problem being that Robb elementary was protected in more or less every way that the gun nuts said it should be.

Which is why they’re moving the goalposts again.

179
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 7:41:29am

re: #178 Belafon

Which is why they’re moving the goalposts again.

…and blaming the police, which is okay to do in a case like this when it’s the guns that need to be defended.

180
John Hughes  May 27, 2022 • 7:43:43am

re: #105 sagehen

We did indeed used to be the greatest country in the world.

When, exactly?

181
Belafon  May 27, 2022 • 7:44:45am

re: #180 John Hughes

When, exactly?

When every other country was in rubble.

182
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 7:47:01am

re: #180 John Hughes

When, exactly?

Do not forget that there was a time when America was a refuge and a beacon of hope for millions escaping poverty and oppression in other parts of the globe. All of my grandparents came from Central Europe.

Of course it was never perfect but there must have been some reason that so many came there.

183
The Pie Overlord!  May 27, 2022 • 7:48:42am

My daughter attended a Paul McCartney concert on Wednesday night. She said it was the most amazing performance she ever saw. Her husband is a 2nd generation Beatles fan: his mother sang Beatles songs to him when he was a baby. Sir Paul is 80 years old and still rocking it.

K9MwgDwLw0+xE1qMic3JKLNgpUoIMc/GX27+nKUYWiBwv4Ye6YjrAJhFyL1COe2syCLyF6pb46pPJoQ568+8w5YVNEJR5huIt30IBxTHEclWLyUKAsvvjAifwtUf1QgyTDZViZG2KblYvaMDlC76kshAZouKLH/l0OknqSre9hk2J8yjZYfS/NMnfbIYnZ0XOCyAU7c87JqK6NAURnlH5A==

184
mmmirele  May 27, 2022 • 7:49:41am

Blargh…work follies.

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

185
John Hughes  May 27, 2022 • 7:52:00am

re: #109 William Lewis

I’d say a good argument can be made for either Nov 22, 1963 or November 4, 1980.

So when did it start? Supreme court decision in Loving vs Virginia? The US was a bright shining city on a hill from 1967 to 1963?

[ Shurely shome mistake — Ed. ]

186
John Hughes  May 27, 2022 • 7:56:26am

re: #114 William Lewis

Classic example of “Correlation is not causation”. The same rifles, with slight cosmetic differences, were for sale in the US before, during and after the AWB. There is a jump in the shootings the but the AWB is not related to it, I would say.

I think you’re underestimating the importance of cosmetics.

187
Belafon  May 27, 2022 • 8:01:23am

re: #119 William Lewis

That is the question that I’d love an answer for.

I think the biggest reason is that these guns were becoming quickly available to the masses at that time. They were getting cheap enough to be produced in large numbers and to be sold. The assault weapons ban was an attempt to try to slow down the sale of these weapons, but it was the only compromise that could get through Congress at the time, so it was pretty weak.

188
Belafon  May 27, 2022 • 8:03:10am

I also think that was about the time the NRA and gun companies decided they no longer had to be responsible citizens (using citizen in the sense of participating in the functioning of our country).

189
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!  May 27, 2022 • 8:12:03am

re: #122 jeffreyw

[Embedded content]

Good morning!

Western good morning!

190
sagehen  May 27, 2022 • 8:23:52am

re: #182 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Do not forget that there was a time when America was a refuge and a beacon of hope for millions escaping poverty and oppression in other parts of the globe. All of my grandparents came from Central Europe.

Of course it was never perfect but there must have been some reason that so many came there.

Part of us not being the best anymore is that we’re not as good as we used to be; and part of it is that other countries have been improving, they’re better than they used to be.

191
gocart mozart  May 27, 2022 • 8:28:10am
192
gocart mozart  May 27, 2022 • 8:28:58am

Read this thread

193
sagehen  May 27, 2022 • 8:30:16am

“But he had no criminal record…”

On your 18th birthday, nobody, literally NOBODY, has a criminal record. Juvenile records are sealed, and whatever you’re going to do at 18 and after that might lead to a criminal record, hasn’t had time to go to court.

194
wrenchwench  May 27, 2022 • 8:37:05am
195
Crush White Nationalism  May 27, 2022 • 8:41:19am

Mork has a thing for metal now. I found a pachinko ball, and one of those pieces that turn to lock furniture together in my kitchen this morning.

This looks just like him, and describes his personality.

196
JC1  May 27, 2022 • 8:46:45am

re: #115 Decatur Deb

But the statistical bounce is presumably real, so what else happened in time to trigger the rise?

9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, constant barrage of war news on TV? Not sure, just guessing.

197
JC1  May 27, 2022 • 8:50:47am

re: #155 No Malarkey!

And ignores the fact that even if the cops had stormed in with guns blazing, there’s no guarantee that any lives would’ve been saved. In fact, people may have died in the cross fire.

I actually wonder if any of the kids were accidentally killed by the cops.

198
JC1  May 27, 2022 • 8:52:38am

re: #161 No Malarkey!

I picked the date Bush v. Gore was decided, because Bush would’ve used the false accusation of Iraqi WMD to justify the Iraq War even if 9/11 hadn’t occurred.

Yep. If Gore wins, Roberts and Alito never sit on SCOTUS, no Iraq fiasco, no massive tax cuts, etc. One of those crazy What Ifs.

199
wrenchwench  May 27, 2022 • 8:53:58am
Karma: 255,255

No more updings! You people are always messing up my numbers!

200
sagehen  May 27, 2022 • 8:54:21am

re: #173 Rightwingconspirator

Follow the numbers and find reality. Paged

Analysis: Gun deaths dropped in California as they rose in Texas: Gun control seems to work

(Edited to fix link)

New York as well. In the late 80’s/early 90’s NYC had more than 2000 murders a year, 90% of them with guns. These days we have less than 500, half of them with guns.

201
JC1  May 27, 2022 • 8:54:27am

re: #162 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

2024 was a close-run thing, but even with a record GOP turnout, it could have gone differently without a handful of GOP state election officials who still possessed some shreds of decency and fairness.

Two problems: those officials are long gone, replaced by loyal party hacks, and we cannot count on the Democratic turnout being as overwhelming as it was after four years of Trump and a year of Covid.

By 2024 covid and old age will have killed off millions more of disproportionately GOP voters. Demographics will move more quickly than their ability to cheat.

202
danarchy  May 27, 2022 • 8:55:16am

re: #193 sagehen

“But he had no criminal record…”

On your 18th birthday, nobody, literally NOBODY, has a criminal record. Juvenile records are sealed, and whatever you’re going to do at 18 and after that might lead to a criminal record, hasn’t had time to go to court.

Pretty sure this isn’t true. Most states do not seal or expunge juvenile records automatically and you have to go through a process to do so. I think some states may have automatic triggers but I don’t think that is common.

203
mmmirele  May 27, 2022 • 8:57:36am

re: #184 mmmirele

And it turned out what the availability tech was calling/messaging me about was above my pay grade anyway.

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

204
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 8:58:13am

when you’ve lost Lee Greenwood…

205
Crush White Nationalism  May 27, 2022 • 8:59:06am
On a beautiful day in May 2015, I drove the 13 hours from my home in Portland, Oregon, to Harris Ranch, California, halfway between San Francisco and Los Angeles. At the time, Tesla was touting a battery-swap station that could send Tesla drivers on their way in a fully powered vehicle in less than the time it takes to fill up a car with gas. Overtaken by curiosity, I had decided to spend a long Memorial Day weekend in California’s Central Valley to see if Elon Musk’s latest bit of dream weaving could stand up to reality.

There, amid the pervasive stench of cow droppings from a nearby feedlot, I discovered that Tesla’s battery swap station was not in fact being made available to owners who regularly drove between California’s two largest cities. Instead, the company was running diesel generators to power additional Superchargers (the kind that take 30 to 60 minutes to recharge a battery) to handle the holiday rush, their exhaust mingling with the unmistakable smell of bullshit.

That one decision to go and find the truth underlying Elon Musk’s promises, rather than just take his word for it, changed my life in ways I never could have anticipated. Now, seven long and often lonely years later, the world seems to be understanding what I learned from the experience: Once you stop taking Musk at his word, his heroic popular image evaporates and a far darker reality begins to reveal itself.

Finding those diesel-powered Superchargers called into question the two pillars of Tesla’s image: an environmental mission and technological leadership. This led me to start digging, and I found that Tesla was getting nearly double the California Zero Emission Vehicle credits for every car it sold thanks to its Potemkin swap station, and that its claimed carbon impact didn’t reflect the actual energy mix used by its Superchargers.

This duplicity on Tesla’s part, I reasoned, couldn’t be a mere accident. To borrow the folksy saying favored by Warren Buffett: There is never just one cockroach. So I began digging into every aspect of Tesla’s business, and in the years that followed my investigations turned up no shortage of cockroaches.

When I First Saw Elon Musk for Who He Really Is (Slate)

206
sagehen  May 27, 2022 • 8:59:48am

re: #198 JC1

Yep. If Gore wins, Roberts and Alito never sit on SCOTUS, no Iraq fiasco, no massive tax cuts, etc. One of those crazy What Ifs.

plus, President Gore would have LISTENED when John O’Neill, George Tenet etc kept trying to warn them. 9/11 might have not happened.

207
gocart mozart  May 27, 2022 • 9:01:22am
208
lawhawk  May 27, 2022 • 9:03:17am

re: #207 gocart mozart

Similar to the Tampa Bay replies. A lot of people who just want to them to focus on baseball, and not that Americans are murdered by firearms at a rate not seen in any other country outside of a war zone.

209
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 9:03:37am

that twitter account yesterday that I said sounded fishy?
it was.

210
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 9:05:23am

re: #198 JC1

Yep. If Gore wins, Roberts and Alito never sit on SCOTUS, no Iraq fiasco, no massive tax cuts, etc. One of those crazy What Ifs.

Gore might not have lasted more than one term, then we would have had Bush or McCain or whomever in 2004.

211
wrenchwench  May 27, 2022 • 9:06:22am

Cross-breeding mutant insects—whatever floats your boat, I guess.

212
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 9:12:10am
213
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 9:14:06am
214
Crush White Nationalism  May 27, 2022 • 9:16:51am

re: #212 Backwoods_Sleuth

215
terraincognita  May 27, 2022 • 9:18:58am

re: #212 Backwoods_Sleuth

Looking forward to voting out this McCheddarhead Fascist in November…

216
gocart mozart  May 27, 2022 • 9:19:06am
217
gocart mozart  May 27, 2022 • 9:22:37am
218
Belafon  May 27, 2022 • 9:23:39am

re: #212 Backwoods_Sleuth

WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE WHITE

That’s all he’s saying.

219
darthstar  May 27, 2022 • 9:26:30am
220
Decatur Deb  May 27, 2022 • 9:27:23am

re: #167 Crush White Nationalism

I just learned of this from the Lovett or Leave it podcast. The guest mentioned that scientists call it the JWST rather than mentioning Webb by name because he was trash.

JAMES WEBB HATED GAY PEOPLE. WHY ARE WE NAMING A TELESCOPE AFTER HIM? (The Byte)

Want to count the things named for Wernher von Braun? He was a fukn’ SS Sturmbannführer.

221
darthstar  May 27, 2022 • 9:28:21am

re: #211 wrenchwench

Cross-breeding mutant insects—whatever floats your boat, I guess.

[Embedded content]

Gregor Samsa, come on down!

222
darthstar  May 27, 2022 • 9:30:09am
223
lawhawk  May 27, 2022 • 9:32:22am

re: #221 darthstar

Youtube Video

224
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 9:35:07am

re: #222 darthstar

As long as funding comes out of some other social program.

225
wrenchwench  May 27, 2022 • 9:36:34am

re: #221 darthstar

Gregor Samsa, come on down!

I decided not to post the tweet about cockroach sex. I decided not to read the article, also.

226
Eclectic Cyborg  May 27, 2022 • 9:40:59am

re: #224 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

As long as funding comes out of some other social program.

Or NRA donations.

227
Eclectic Cyborg  May 27, 2022 • 9:45:15am

JFC

228
sagehen  May 27, 2022 • 9:51:57am

They said they had to get a key to the door from the principal, or a janitor, or something… I watch S.W.A.T. (the TV show)… they absolutely have a tool they use to open locked doors. It takes a few seconds.

229
wrenchwench  May 27, 2022 • 9:52:57am

Flaming bagpipes on a unicycle—thumbs up!

230
No Malarkey!  May 27, 2022 • 9:53:52am
231
Eclectic Cyborg  May 27, 2022 • 9:54:56am

re: #230 No Malarkey!

It just keeps getting worse and worse.

232
The Pie Overlord!  May 27, 2022 • 9:55:21am
233
austin_blue  May 27, 2022 • 9:55:25am

re: #40 A Cranky One

Technically true.

Only if you promise to wear them at the dog park.

“It’s a dog eat dog world, and I’m wearing pork chop underwear.”

Norm, on Cheers

234
darthstar  May 27, 2022 • 9:55:59am

re: #227 Eclectic Cyborg

JFC

[Embedded content]

It’s not going well for that asshole.

235
sagehen  May 27, 2022 • 9:58:19am
236
darthstar  May 27, 2022 • 9:59:14am
237
No Malarkey!  May 27, 2022 • 10:00:17am

re: #235 sagehen

No.

238
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 10:02:18am
239
wrenchwench  May 27, 2022 • 10:03:22am

Twordle.

Wordle 342 2/6

⬜🟦🟧🟧⬜
🟧🟧🟧🟧🟧

I tried for a long time to think of something better for my second guess. There wasn’t anything better.

240
Hecuba's daughter  May 27, 2022 • 10:05:24am

re: #235 sagehen

From later in that thread …

241
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 10:06:20am
242
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 10:07:57am
243
Dr Lizardo  May 27, 2022 • 10:09:50am

re: #229 wrenchwench

LOL one of my Czech students has actually seen the Unipiper a few years ago. She asked me when she got back here, “Is it normal that there’s someone on a unicycle dressed as Darth Vader playing bagpipes?” and I said, “In Portland? Yeah, that’s just Tuesday.”

244
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 10:10:10am
245
darthstar  May 27, 2022 • 10:10:33am
246
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 10:11:10am
247
Egregious Philbin  May 27, 2022 • 10:11:21am

re: #204 Backwoods_Sleuth

But….the death merchants won’t be able to hear his greatest hits

248
wrenchwench  May 27, 2022 • 10:12:20am

re: #243 Dr Lizardo

LOL one of my Czech students has actually seen the Unipiper a few years ago. She asked me when she got back here, “Is it normal that there’s someone on a unicycle dressed as Darth Vader playing bagpipes?” and I said, “In Portland? Yeah, that’s just Tuesday.”

What is this ‘normal’ you speak of?

249
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 10:12:21am

re: #243 Dr Lizardo

LOL one of my Czech students has actually seen the Unipiper a few years ago. She asked me when she got back here, “Is it normal that there’s someone on a unicycle dressed as Darth Vader playing bagpipes?” and I said, “In Portland? Yeah, that’s just Tuesday.”

ahem: playing bagpipes that shoot flames.

Portland has a certain reputation to uphold.

250
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 10:15:57am
251
A Cranky One  May 27, 2022 • 10:19:16am

252
darthstar  May 27, 2022 • 10:20:03am
253
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 10:20:23am

jeebus

254
BeachDem  May 27, 2022 • 10:21:28am

Another question about their “oops, bad decision in hindsight” thinking it had gone from active shooter to barricaded suspect. How many of the kids who were shot were bleeding out while they waited? How many might have survived if they’d received immediate attention? I don’t know…but neither did they.

255
Dr Lizardo  May 27, 2022 • 10:21:45am

re: #248 wrenchwench

re: #249 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Portland is, of course, much different than Ostrava. To put it mildly.

She had many questions. “Why do all the men have long beards?” “Is it really legal to openly sell marijuana in a store?” “Why are there so many strip clubs?” etc., etc.

256
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 10:21:49am
257
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 10:22:02am

re: #252 darthstar

Gov. Greg Abbott has canceled his appearance at this weekend’s NRA convention in Houston.

He goes there to brown-nose for campaign contributions by acting as a cheerleader for NRA and gun rights.

But he knows that will be a very difficult act to pull off this weekend.

258
Dave In Austin  May 27, 2022 • 10:22:13am

re: #245 darthstar

259
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 27, 2022 • 10:24:36am

re: #256 Backwoods_Sleuth

I seriously cannot emphasize how low of a person one has to be to twist the mass murder of elementary schoolers into pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Comparing a nation that is currently being invaded by a larger neighbor to the current USA is an amazing leap.

260
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 10:24:54am

outside:

261
Dr Lizardo  May 27, 2022 • 10:25:18am

re: #253 Backwoods_Sleuth

Though this might be a deeply controversial assertion, the media needs to show the crime scene photos/autopsy photos of the dead (with the permission of the parents, of course).

The aftermath of firearms violence is heavily sanitized by the American media, and as a result, far too many people have a very poor idea of the consequences.

262
darthstar  May 27, 2022 • 10:26:12am
263
jaunte  May 27, 2022 • 10:26:28am

re: #260 Backwoods_Sleuth

Status Quo Protective Cavalry.

264
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 10:27:43am
265
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 10:28:07am
266
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 10:29:43am

the same classroom where they asked kids to yell if they needed help?
and at least one kid answered?

jfc

267
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 10:30:21am

re: #266 Backwoods_Sleuth

the same classroom where they asked kids to yell if they needed help?
and at least one kid answered?

jfc

oh wait,, is he saying the shooter pumped hundreds of rounds?

268
wrenchwench  May 27, 2022 • 10:32:12am

Three good guys, each with a gun and one also with a shield, could say, ‘You’re not the boss of me!’ to the Texas Department of Public Safety, and went in.

269
jaunte  May 27, 2022 • 10:33:13am
270
Egregious Philbin  May 27, 2022 • 10:33:30am

re: #260 Backwoods_Sleuth

Massacre Merchants

271
Eventual Carrion  May 27, 2022 • 10:34:32am

re: #232 The Pie Overlord!

Oh I want

272
jaunte  May 27, 2022 • 10:35:02am
273
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 27, 2022 • 10:36:50am
274
GlutenFreeJesus  May 27, 2022 • 10:41:06am

re: #261 Dr Lizardo

Though this might be a deeply controversial assertion, the media needs to show the crime scene photos/autopsy photos of the dead (with the permission of the parents, of course).

The aftermath of firearms violence is heavily sanitized by the American media, and as a result, far too many people have a very poor idea of the consequences.

Lock up the local GQP factions in the crime scenes so they can see with their own eyes what they’re allowing to happen.

275
sagehen  May 27, 2022 • 10:43:35am

re: #254 BeachDem

Another question about their “oops, bad decision in hindsight” thinking it had gone from active shooter to barricaded suspect. How many of the kids who were shot were bleeding out while they waited? How many might have survived if they’d received immediate attention? I don’t know…but neither did they.

Several died at the hospital. If they’d gotten there 1/2 an hour earlier, they probably would have lived.

276
austin_blue  May 27, 2022 • 11:17:24am

re: #249 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

ahem: playing bagpipes that shoot flames.

Portland has a certain reputation to uphold.

Keep Portland Weirder.

277
steve_davis  May 27, 2022 • 11:23:14am

re: #232 The Pie Overlord!

[Embedded content]

ha! I don’t have to do mine on the parchment anymore because I finally easy offed that sucker. And the bottoms of my pans look good again (used the barkeeper’s friend on that). Then I got ambitious and tried the liquid barkeeper’s friend on the bathroom grout, which really did nothing.


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