Slightly unrelated but amusing.

[Link: www.vbsharesoft.com...]

Keep track of Iraq's Most Wanted with this easy to use program! Print each suit on a single page, each card, or the Jokers!

NOTE: It has been reported that CENTCOM used a 'Copyrighted' Joker (from Hoyle), without permission. Therefore, to avoid any problems with this program, I have replaced the original Joker with our old friend 'Baghdad Bob' (e.g Mohammad Saeed al-Sahaf - Iraqi Minister of (Mis)Information - "They are not even 100 miles from Baghdad").

Hamas is a murdering cult, but they are out in the open. I'm amazed so many on the left still defend them. OTOH, I prefer Hamas to that lying sack of shit Arafish. Hamas being open with their hatred makes it easier to find and defeat them.

to get a durable peace between Israelis and Palestinians, there will probably have to be something like a Palestinian civil war, and those favoring peaceful co-existence with Israel (if there are any) will have to win.

Just one question, why is this guy still breathing? Does Israel honestly not know where the leader of Hamas is located?

Israel needs to start playing Whack-a-Mole far more aggressively.
 

Road map will cause inter-Palestinian strife: Hamas.

A "peace plan" that causes inter-Palestinian strife???
I can't imagine such a phenomenon!

[/sarcasm]

I believe with perfect faith that these Arabs will do everything possible to destroy Israel, and that they will murder until they themselves are destroyed.

Since IDF SF disguised as P.A. policemen arrested a bunch of Hamas leaders in Gaza without any resistance, it is well known than Hamas is controlled by the P.A. Every word spoken by Hamas (or any other "faction" of the PLO) has been checked and approved by Arafat.

The goal of Arafat is to have the "international community" press concessions from Israel while he and his thugocracy does not concede anything but empty words in return. Even a cease-fire would be perceived as a concession by the Palis. A plan imposing the destruction of the terrorist infrastructure is, of course, unacceptable for Arafat.

So now we have Hamas "warning" that the roadmap "could replace the Israel-Palestinian conflict with an inter-Palestinian confrontation". If you believed the Abu Mazen/Arafat split, you will believe this one, too. What is actually behind it is an attempt for the PLO to have part of its terrorist infrastructure immune from any kind of action and free to continue murdering Jews.

I wonder how naive the "international community" really is?

and could replace the Israel-Palestinian conflict with an inter-Palestinian confrontation," the Gaza-based political leader said.

dang, I was hoping this meant there would be some.. culling of the militants.

I personally love the way he points out that he will either kill Jews or other Palestinians.
Hey, gotta kill somebody.

Caton (#9):

I wonder how naive the "international community" really is?

That is not exclusively, or even predominantly, naivety. Like I said several times before, the main notion behind the "international community's" "reasoning" and actions is :

Someone who hates the Jews so much, can't be all bad.

#9 Q

It's part naivety and part anti-semitism, I agree. I think it's 99% anti-semitism, and I'd like everyone to think about it -- and what it means about our leaders.

The following is a good article by John Hawkins on why he thinks the peace plan will fail;

[Link: rightwingnews.com...]

Aw, Caton, you burst my bubble. And I was having such a nice fantasy about the Palestinians engaging in a fight to the death amongst themselves, too.

#12 Amy

"Jesus only said half of it. The truth will set you free. But first, it'll piss you off."
-- Solomon Short

Caton:

it is well known than Hamas is controlled by the P.A. Every word spoken by Hamas (or any other "faction" of the PLO) has been checked and approved by Arafat.

This is not necessarily 100% correct. Don't get me wrong: I also feel that arafish is the boss of everything paleostinian. However, Yassin, Hamas' spiritual leader, has gone out many times and given interviews which give the lie to arafish's oily words of peace. He has stated clearly, in front of cameras, that his organization will not rest until the Jews are not here. He doesn't even seem hateful when he says that - it is as if he's just stating the way things should be, and simply doesn't get how anyone could think differently. Actuall, after all the lies and deceit we get from arafish and Co., it is quite refreshing (talk about relativism).

It is a real split, IMO, which may be a pain for arafat, but he doesn't do anything about it - it diverts attention from himself, and the work of Hamas is so close to his heart he lets them go about it as they wish. That is, unless he needs a period of some days without suicide bombing, to make a point for the Americans. When this happens, he gives them some hints/orders, and such actions cease until he says otherwise.

There have been some clashes between Hamas and Fatah/PA Police which left some dead, but they were isolated incidents with way too few casualties.

#14 Amos,

Good point. One of the beautiful things about the homicidal Hammites is that they can never agree with each other 100% (or even close).
The lack of Arab unity is a reoccurring theme which is truly a blessing for Israel and the rest of the world.
It was one of the main reasons for the pitiful Iraqi resistance, and it will play a major part in the self destruction of these "Palestinian" variety murderers.

#14 Amos

Hmm. English is not my native language, so I'm not sure about what you mean. What is the difference between being controlled by the P.A. and obeying each and every Arafat order?

Caton's point is actually pretty reasonable. I've always thought of Hamas as a separate organization.

When the IDF went in undercover as PLO police officers and arrested the Hamasniks, I realized that it indicated that the Hamas folks cooperated with the PLO. It's not that farfetched to believe that Hamas is a willing participant in Arafat's good cop/bad cop game that he played throughout the 90s - people were always left to say that there was no worse alternative then Arafat.

Since the IDF has all kinds of papers from the 'palestinians', I do wonder whether they have the appropriate documentation. And if so, why don't they release it? Just to preserve the fiction of a road map?

So, the nihilists finally admit what they are all about. I think the Isrealis need to nail these Granola Patrolmen (call as such because they's chock fulla fruits, nuts, and flakes) first.

"We strongly reject this road map because it will give more security to the Zionists and could replace the Israel-Palestinian conflict with an inter-Palestinian confrontation," the Gaza-based political leader said."

Caton, Amos, Ariel et. al., I'm afraid I'm not up to speed on parts of this conflict. My question is, what language, or aspect of the roadmap would cause Ismail Haniyeh to say this? And what does he have to gain by acknowledging such a split publicly?

Islamists NEED the so-called 'Palestinians'

I'm so conflicted about this, as I'm sure many others are as well. Looking at how the 'Palestinians' have been used by the Islamists, I believe the Islamists will not allow any peace plan to be achieved.

For the sake of allowing Israelis to live in peace, without suicide/homicide bombers, it would be great if peace could be achieved between the 'Palestinians' and Israel.

However, the Islamists NEED the 'Palestinian Problem' to continue. It's one of the excuses to eliminate Israel. It helps recruit 'martyrs'. It's also the glue that holds many, otherwise warring Islamists' factions, together.

It could also remove the 'Palestinians' from being perpetual 'victims', getting lots of money and sympathy from the deluded masses of the Western countries. I don't think the 'Palestinians' would like no longer being viewed as 'victims'.

I don't see it (peace) happening. On one hand, I'll be glad if the 'Palestinians' won't agree. On the other hand, I'll be sad the 'Palestinians' won't agree.

I'll be glad because I don't think Israel should have to concede *anything* to the terrorists. It's unfair for Israel to have to yield anything to these pretend peoples (the 'Palestinians'). It's the 'Palestinians' who should be made to leave. Israel should not be made to yield territory.

I'd actually like to see Israel stand up and say: " 'NO WAY', *we* are the victims not the 'Palestinians'. We will yield nothing to them. We expect the UN, or whoever, to find a new 'homeland' for these 'peoples', because *all* this land is ours. If not, we will act in the same way the US & allies have acted towards Iraq."

On the other hand, I'll be sad if the 'Palestinians' can't come to peaceful terms with Israel. The citizens of Israel don't deserve to live with the constant terrorist attacks.

If I were living in Israel, I may be willing to yield land for peace. Maybe not. But, I can see how some may be willing. After years of living with the suicide/homicide bombers, I can see people may be willing to do *anything* to stop it. (But, the terrorists will have won!!)

As long as there is a 'Palestinian Problem', Israel will never know peace and will be villified by many in the West as the oppressors of the 'Palestinians'. Israel can't act in her own self-defense without being maligned in much of the Western and Arab press.

If Israel were to act as any other country, like the US for example, and treat the 'Palestinians' as we have treated the Taliban or the Baath party in Iraq, Israel would always be viewed as the villian and the 'Palestinians' would be perpetual 'victims and martyrs'.

In short, I would like Israel to know peace, but not at the expense of yielding to the terrorists. However, it may be necessary (but unfair) that she do so. I don't know if Israel will really achieve peace with
a 'Palestinian' state at her door.

Does anyone really believe that yielding to the 'Palestinians' will guarantee peace for Israel? I don't think so. The only thing it may do is stop the 'Palestinians' from playing the 'victim card'.

If the 'Palestinians' are given their own 'homeland', I hope Israel constructs a *huge* wall, like the Berlin wall, to contain them.

"Pray For the Peace Of Jerusalem"

PS:

To the nuttty 'anti-Zionists', believers in the phantom 'Jewish Cabal that rules the US', etc...

I'm not Jewish. I'm not influenced by the non-existant 'Cabal'. However, I stand with Israel and the Jews to determine what is done with *THEIR* homeland.

The 'Palestinians' never existed before the 60's. The peoples that comprise the 'Palestinians' were driven out of, and slaughtered, by neighboring Arab lands. Israel, comprised mainly of Jews, has dealt more humanely with the 'Palestinians' than their 'Muslim Brothers' ever did.

Stop reading conspiracy websites. Read some history books instead.

i'm personally looking forward to a great blossoming of democracy amongst the palestinian arabs. then hamas will come to power and the masks will come off. the world will see and hear the truth once and for all -- that arabs from the maghreb to the tigris still want the jews pushed into the sea. and then israel will finally have the free rein to put them all in their place: somewhere else, or 6 feet under.

Notwithstanding Caton's comments about the unity of the PA/Hamas, I think Hamas will cease to exist within the next 3-5 years. Either Abbas will disarm them (10% probability) or the IDF will decapitate them (90% probability) when it becomes obvious that the roadmap has failed.

The bottom line is that Hamas will never evolve into a political organisation like Sinn Fein, so it will have to be eliminated.

#19 Stephen

Destroying the terrorist infrastructure means disbanding Hamas, Tanzin, etc. Hamas is basically saying we will not be disbanded peacefully.

#22 Henry S.

You are assuming Hamas is a separate organization. I am not convinced. I see Hamas as just a part of the PLO, designed to appeal to the fundamentalist wahhabites. Just like the Commies in Europe went through a number of front organizations tailored for different groups, I think the PLO factions are just fronts.

Seems to me Al Aqsa, Hamas, Hezbollah, et al. have made their positions perfectly clear. There is no reason not to believe them. There is no reason, therefore, not to kill them.

Why not now?

I gotta say, from what I've seen of the roadmap, (which admittedly isn't much) it looks like the Palestinians have to stop blowing people up before they get their own state. So either they stop sending bombers, or they go piss up a rope when it comes to statehood.

My own personal opinions are that everyone from Arafat on down needs to go. The entire PA leadership is a corrupt pit, and cannot be worked with. Get rid of them, and the Palestinians might have a chance. But not while Arafat has any control whatsoever. This new PM is almost just as bad.

HAMAS's Sheikh Mahmoud Zahar on the relationship between the PLO and the HAMAS: Like the wings of a bird, they must work together.

From a fine article by Yosef Bodansky.

Try not to look at the URL until after you have read the article. Why not? Because it contains the date of the article, and it's sort of stunning to read the date AFTER you're done.

Much of what Bodansky wrote seems obvious now. But it was not obvious to many folks at the time.

It is old hat for Arafat to operate through supposedly independent organizations for purposes of deniability. Recall Black September. Now Abbas is repeating an old Arafat line—there must only be one authority. It upsets these fascists if HAMAS ever has the temerity to act independently.

It will take a lot to convince me that Abu Amar and Abu Mazen have forsaken Article 8 of the PLO Covenant, which says all Palestinian factions should cooperate to fight the Zionists, and not fight each other.

Caton,

my point is Hamas, while obeying arafat when he gives orders, sometimes initiates actions which displease him. I think he would rather Yassin wasn't so honest. I'm sure he hates the infighting between hamas and others, seldom as it is.

Hamas strikes when ordered by arafat. Hamas ceases striking when ordered by arafat. They can be disbanded by arafat, within a few days, whenever he wishes. Other than that, they act according to their initiative.

Some say hamas' origins are partly Israel's failed attempt to create an inner opposition to arafat. Know anything about that?

#27 Amos

Yeah, Arafat controls Hamas actions, not speech. Still -- he controls Hamas.

After the Six Days War, Israel supported Da'wah. Da'wah is a Muslim charity network that helped Palestinians in Gaza, and really did a good job -- proof of how good that job was is that the UNRWA repeatedly condemned them for taking Palis out of the refugee camps. Then, in 1977 or 1978, the blind asshole started an Islamic organization called Al-Mujamma al Islami, who annexed Da'wah and supported the Iranian Islamic movement. That's when Israel stopped supporting Da'wah. After the Iranian Islamic revolution, Al-Mujamma al Islami changed its name to Hamas, got funding from Iran, and started its terrorist campaign.

My analysis is that Israel did not support Hamas, but it failed in stopping Hamas from annexing Da'wah and getting the support it needed from the Palis.