Kudos Charles, on shedding a little light on the beautiful side of this universe amid all the rotten parts of humanity

BS. Way to flat for a galaxy. Lacking globular clusters.

No halo, no nothin'. This is photoshop.

Messier gets a galaxy? What does Gretzky's look like?

Charles
What better way to show that our earthly woes are, well, insignificant to the universe. It should be a valid point to the L³ that we only have a tiny part of the big picture and that we should worry about the future instead of the most PC current craze.

the best repository for these pics is

[Link: antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov...]

Astronomy Picture of the Day

Ah, I like the Ringworld photo. Niven would be proud.

"God's Sombrero"

You know, I've been squinting at it for about a minute, and I still can't see Allah.

#3 Jheka

LOL

Messier gets ALL the galaxies (at least those visible with an 1800s telescope). The M designation in front of various astronomical objects refers to Messier's catalogue of "fuzzy stars"---nebulae and comets and galaxies---that he observed back in the day.

To see the world in a grain of sand
And heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.

-William Blake

#2. Er, I received my minor in astronomy, and I can assure you that the Sombrero Galaxy is a well-known galaxy--it just has never been imaged so beautifully.

Here is a link to older images:
Sombrero Galaxy on Google

The wonders of G-d's universe.

Amazing shot.

I'm sorry, this is not a photo of any galaxy.

Wow.

God help us, this is serious BS.

#12 Yair
You're an expert on galaxies?

Globular clusters are absent.

Simply beautiful.

I'm not an astronomer, Reaganite. I read a great deal of Scientific American.

It is unheard of to have a galaxy without globular clusters.

Yair
Is this "fake" as well? The horse head nebula.

#6 Nick:

The exact same thing went through my mind.

Dyson spheres, anyone?

#15 reaganite:

Hey, I'm an expert on Galaxie 500's, at least I have put shocks and mufflers on a few, and I say it's legit!

(#3) Jheka:

Messier gets a galaxy? What does Gretzky's look like?

You're living in it. At least you were in the 80's and 90's.

Cool pic.

I love the cosmos. This is pure BS.

reaganite

It ain't worth it.

#2

If you have high speed, go to This full res jpeg of the galaxy. (It's 7.12 MB)

OT -- I think it's a great idea, personally.

N.Y. Fair to Display Bombed Israeli Bus

New York Fair to Display Israeli Bus Destroyed in Deadly Palestinian Suicide Bombing

JERUSALEM Oct. 2 — A bus destroyed in one of the deadliest Palestinian suicide bombings will be displayed at a New York fair alongside booths promoting Jewish culture and tourism to Israel.

Relatives of the bombing's victims are outraged, and Israeli government officials have quietly questioned the wisdom of the plans by ZAKA Rescue and Recovery, an Israeli disaster response group.

Even if it is a photoshop job, how bad could it be?

Wherever it is, there are NO ISLAMO-FASCISTS there.

Reaganite, there is much cool shit in the universe. Thi9s isn't one of them.

#27 Li'l Mamzer:

They wouldn't count as intelligent life, anyway.

OT for Canada bashers.Two Canadians Dead in Afghanistan

On a per capita basis that is the same as nine Americas so I can't say we're doing our share, but it hurts, it really hurts.

Oh well, Charles, you tried. This had the potential to be a great thread, something peaceful and inspirational for a change, but Yair will insist of fucking everything up. Sorry for the language but I'm absolutely sick of him and his belligerence. Enjoy guys, it should be a blast. reaganite, I know we don't talk but honestly, ignore him. You know the deal...

Zulubaby

You can talk to me.

Hey baby, I've got a quarter, can we...uh, uh like amke out or something?

/butthead

It's BS, Charles, I don't know what else to say. Way too symmetrical. There is amazing stuff out there. Truly. Not this.

#23 Yair
Last time I'll try. I have a picture on my wall of a shot I did in Utah in 1988. When I ask EOD types what size they think the shot is, they respond 20 or 30k pounds, they think the picture was taken from a mile or two away. The actual picture I took was from 9 miles away, it was 500k of high explosives.

You're no expert, think you might be wrong?

zulubaby (#31),

Hear, hear.

Bad Mamba Jamba (#32)

A whole quarter!? You spoil me ... ;-)

YOU HAVE INCURRED THE WRATH OF ZULUBABY! WOE BE UNTO YOU! YOUR SOUL WILL WRITHE IN ENDLESS TORMENT AFTER SHE CUNNINGLY WORKS THE VERY BONES OF YOUR BODY INTO MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS AND PLAYS "IN-A-GADDA-DA-VIDA" UPON THEM FOR ALL ETERNITY! WOE, DUDE! BUMMER!

Zulubaby, the universe is out there. This isn't t it. I'm sorry, I wish it was.

Yair, can you just let it go? Just this once? We hear you...please?

"Globular cluster."

#25 Revenge of the Chalmers

Stunning - - I got it downloading and will save! Thanx.

Hey, Universe they say is about 18 Billion Years Old? Guess how long that's been, given relativity and best estimates of expansion rates - viewed from the theoretical centerpoint of the Big Bang.....?

Ummm....about 5,700 years or so.....

Zulubaby

Fitty Cent?

I want thank Arab News for publishing these photos.

I'm an amateur astronomer, and astrophotographer, and that is an awesome M104.

Here is a link to some photos I have taken recently with my lowly 4", APO refractor:

IC434 Horsehead

NGC891

I'm pretty new at this, and could never match the Hubble of course, but I'm proud of my few photos to date.

Yair, right or wrong, this is one of those times when it is better to not piss in the Cheerios of others. Just say nice picture and save the arguments for things that matter.

Yair: what in the ever-loving hell are you talking about? Did you follow the link? Did you look at the other images, some at very high resolutions?

Are you aware that this photo was released by NASA?

Do you also think the moon landings were faked?

You are really beginning to get on my last nerve.

The science mags often colorize the cosmos pics. Regardless, it is awe inspiring, humbling and beautiful. Every time I look into the night sky (I'm rural), I am enchanted. Cosmologically speaking... we are blips. Thank G-d we have people like Charles that colorize our bliphood.

andthenblammo!

Stunning ALL CAPS there -- that'll teach me!

Brownfinger said it better than I. Why do I always swear? My mama hates it.

Mamba Jamba -- keep going honey.

It breaks my heart. There are quasars, pulsars, other shit, but this is photoshop.

I'm downloading the FREAKIN' HUGE picture right now.

Mr. 187

Zulubaby

Maybe I can seranade you...

I ain't got a very swoll bank roll...................... yet.

Que?

the Mr. 187 comment was to our Lizardoid Diety.

Charles,

I have read the last 2000 sci ams. I'm sorry, I have a problem with this photo. If you wish to ban me, of course, that is your prerogative.

We have GAZE for the trolls.

What do we have for friendly fire? HAZE?

The mind reels...

BTW, more on the Sombrero Galaxy (easy to find on Google)
[Link: antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov...]

[Link: www.eso.org...]

[Link: www.eso.org...]

[Link: users.pandora.be...]

[Link: www.concord-grove.org...]

[Link: burro.astr.cwru.edu...]

Mamba Jamba, I'd rather be serenaded anytime! Can't sleep with the money and keep the honey in the safe, right? :-)

I'm outta here. I don't usually announce my plans to LGF but I don't want you to think I've run out on you ...

Before Charles bans my ass, look up "globular clusters", and ask yourselves why they don't exist in this galaxy.

Yair - here

Both the Sombrero galaxy and the Milky Way have a ‘bulge’, which is made up from globular clusters of stars. The Milky Way is thought to have about 200 globular clusters. Large telescopes on Earth have found several hundred globular clusters in the Sombrero galaxy.

History of the Sombrero Galaxy.

And if you get a chance to download the FREAKIN' HUGE picture, take a look at the details - there are these faint but recognizable spiral galaxies and nebulae scattered all through the picture - huge islands that barely register on the Hubble pix.

Fascinating!

Yair, chill, please. I don't want to see you banned. Go have a drink or something. C'mon!

Sorry but OT:

Did anyone else catch the brief mention on Fox News about the WMD smuggling in Kuwait? They ran through very quickly without elaborating much for some reason, but it was there. Does Fox use the 48 hour rule as well?

Yair
Give it a rest.

#56 It's a mosaic. Maybe that's why it seems surreal to you?

I have seen many amateur photos of M104. They are not like this photo of course, but believe me M104 is a real galaxy.

Is a certain excitable person suggesting that this is perhaps remains of a supernova? Why the obvious rotation then? Is it being suggested that it's not really there?

Anyone care to comment on the Age of the Universe, "Subjectively" speaking (see post #41)?

Now, getting a pix of the Sombrero Galaxy is truly the LARGEST hat tip one could hope for!

(ducking and rolling)

Laila Tov Zulubaby.

Yair,

Just stop being a bitch. It is utterly irritating to have a someone constantly nag.

#63   Brownfinger

Really? Wow, I can't believe, if it's true, that it's not HUGE news. WTF?

#61 Steve Miller

Exactly. It's very clear in the large picture!

#25 Revenge of Chalmers
Thanks for that! What a picture!

If that's Photoshopped, G-d's got one FREAKIN' HUGE display monitor - I can't even imagine the color depth!

Ok, I will have a drinnk. One last word. Globular clusters.

Yair: Whether your statement is right or wrong, what does it do for anyone to have you repeat it ad nauseum? If you have nothing to add (inshallah) let something go.

The Hubble is a wonder, I'm truly awed by our nation and our Western civilization for such wonders, and the drive we've instilled in ourselves to see even more.

Geeky question, but this is highly over-exposed, right? I mean, if a person were an equivalent distance away the galaxy wouldn't look like this in real time, or would it?

Yair

Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not there. (Think wind)
Besides, If God decided to make a galaxy without globular clusters, what's that to you?

That pic is now my desktop background.

Jeezus H. Christ on a pogo stick, Yair! You repeating how this is a fake over and over and over and over again does not make it so. The fact that you read a lot of Scientific American does NOT make you an expert. Are you implying that the scientists using the Hubble are FAKING PICTURES? A simple Google search shows thousands of hits of this fairly well-known, much-photographed galaxy, including this one. But, hey, what do those guys know? I mean, they're probably in on the conspiracy to create a fake galaxy and distribute pictures of it across the internet in their mad scheme to... to... well, I don't know, but their scheme must be truly sinister whatever it is.

(While you check out that last link , please note the words "Close inspection of the bulge in the above photograph shows many points of light that are actually globular clusters.")

Get it? YOU. ARE. WRONG. Accept it.

Geez!

#76 reaganite

Great Idea!

Scientific American

Description: Monthly magazine of science.

Yair

I have read the last 2000 sci ams.

Impressive: 166 years worth.

#73 Yair

Guess you missed this, see #60.

Large telescopes on Earth have found several hundred globular clusters in the Sombrero galaxy.

I don't know if it's over exposed. Every pix of the Sombrero Galaxy I've seen has shown the same hazy globe. While I am not an astronomer, I believe the haze is the gas and dust surrounding the galaxy that is lit by individual stars as well as the light of the galaxy itself.

The technology surrounding the Hubble does a good job of eliminating the over-exposure - they do lots of separate types of pix (e.g., helium, hydrogen, other gasses; emission types, temperature, and so on) & merge them to get the clearest shots.

Model 4

I dunno, but why so? You'd be looking through vacuum, why would it not be as clear and bright? The colours though, I think that's boosted for depth of field or something...Anyone?

#78 Tiburon
I don't often change my desktop, this was worth it!

#71, ET AL.
No problem. I don't have the patience to download the tiff fileyet (I'll use my office T3 line for that tomorrow), but the huge jpeg is still quite a sight.

BTW, In Photoshop I magnified it all the way, and there's absolutely no evidence of alteration.

Now, keeping up with Scientific American magazine is one thing. But you can't be an expert on something without the hand on experience. Unless of course you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

As someone else pointed out, [Link: antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov...] is a fab place to check daily.

#67 steve miller: Bwahahahahha!

I remember one picture in particular that was released by NASA with dozens of galaxies visible in the frame, in pretty good detail too. It was truly breathtaking. I'd love it so if after "all this" we get to tour at will.

It's a very cool pic. If you look for the Sombrero Galaxy at the APOD site, you can find a lot more information on why it looks so hazy.

Somebody look up galaxy's minus globular clusters.

#87 Model 4

well, maybe some....says in Midrash I guess, somewhere anyway - that the Righteous are given 310 worlds!

As far as I know, astronomical photos are generally "colorized" because they show objects in many wavelengths that the human eye doesn't record. Since we're not seeing the actual object, it's just a matter of judgment as to how much color should be assigned to various wavelengths. I know that NASA tries to make its pix gorgeous, but it's not rearranging matter for the sake of artistic pix.

#74 Model4

M104 is visible to the naked eye in really dark skys, but it just looks like a smudge of light, or a small patchy cloud.

The problem in photographing M104 is that its core is very bright as opposed to the fringes. So, before all the detail in the fringes can be captured, the central part of the photo gets washed out.

There are ways to combat this, but at the end of the day, this is probably about the best you can do.

It's an awesome photo. Never have I seen M104 like this, in all its glory. The dust lane through the center of it is just awesome, and the fantastic detail in this photo is amazing.

Here's a link to an Earthbound astrophotographer's M104:

M104

#89

I looked up Little Green Footballs without Yair--it was beautiful and peaceful.

#82 Tiburon: Well, because if the whole thing were that bright, it would seem that our night sky would be much different from the light from our own galaxy. Like I said, geeky question though.

Does anyone else remember when WarMongeringInfidel tried and tried to see just how big an ass you had to be to get banned?

The awe-inspiring thing is to see so many galaxys (and the implicit structure of super-galaxy groups) just scattered across the sky like jewels on velvet. Here you can see a faint spiral galaxy with billions of stars, far beyond the Sombrero Galaxy - and to think that this entire FREAKIN' galaxy - as well as every other - will never have any contact with us. It's like seeing islands in the ocean, but knowing you could never swim, sail, or fly to them. They're just laying out there, beautiful but unapproachable.

No wonder aliens seethe and whine...

Do we think that countries under sharia will publish such photos on the internet?

#93 Paladin

Quitely LOL.
I feel like I'm in an art gallery and must keep it hushed for some reason.

I looked up Little Green Footballs without Yair--it was beautiful and peaceful.

But so untruthful.

HAZE

#98 RIP Ford

I feel the same way looking at the wonder and beauty of God's creation.

Two words: ROAD TRIP!!!!!!!

It is truly a shame that there is so much beauty in the universe, yet we do no appreciate it.

#96 steve miller

No wonder aliens seethe and whine...

heh!

#94 Model 4...certainly not geeky, but I"m not sure I get you - I think it would look like this, roughly, minus some colour (without some really cool 'shades'), if you were at a point outside M104?

#94

The camera that the Hubble uses is much more sensitive to light than the human eye.

Even in the vacum of space, M104 would not look like that to your unaided eye.

Plus, the Hubble records information from wavelengths of light, that are not even visible to the human eye.

In a nutshell, using different filters, the Hubble gathers information about the amount of light that is being emitted at different wavelengths, and then it is all merged back together, by technicians on the ground, to form a composite image.

I think Yair must be screwing with us at this point. Either that, or he's not actually bothering to read what people post.

#103 Yair

Yeah, we are always whining about a lack of globular clusters!

I am picturing the beauty of my size 11 foot in your narrow ass.

But, alas, there will be no one to photoshop it.

You guys have to get real. Even Gordon is copping on. I'm just a dude who comments upon facts that float his way.

That is all!

OT Charles, I just saw the new banner:

lgf: to Morlocks as Morlocks are to Eloi

That's cool.

Thanks for the info guys. Here's one of those deep field pics (sorry if it was included in the links above). Here. Amazing. Thanks for the picture and the thread Charles.

Charles, is this topic's name by any chance a reference to Denis Leary's joke about the Catholic church?

Guys! Stop yelling at ye old unpopular jackass! There are no, NO, globular clusters in this galaxy!

Yair,

Whatever. GAZE.

Yair
In the past I've given you the benefit of the doubt, but will you please just fuck off and let us enjoy this?

And, Yair, who lit the goddamn fuse on your tampon? Several other folks have linked to stories that point out the gobular clusters. For disrupting a thread like this, I hearby sentence you to having to feltch Chairman Arafish for all eternity.

#40   Yair

I'm going to tell you something I rarely tell anybody, especially here.

You are a DICK

#113 Yair

Does that mean civilization will disappear tomorrow?

I fear the other globular clusters are polluting what's left of your alleged mind.

So, that's what G-d uses as a kippa?

Tiburon:

Anyone care to comment on the Age of the Universe, "Subjectively" speaking (see post #41)?

I'm not quite sure what you want to say, but I'll bite nonetheless. When religion (or some adherents of it) stupidly and stubbornly attacks the well-established scientific truths (witness the whole "creationism" imbecility)-- or even the concept of science itself -- it only discredits itself and invites well-deserved ridicule. Which is completely avoidable, if it is content with staying on its own playing field and not trying to usurp the objective truth and bend it to its dogma.

There is no Yair in this thread!

Would someone please do a google on +Yair +LGF?

See?

There in Yair in this thread or LGF.

2000 copies of ScfAmcn over 166 years can't be wrong can it?

Guys! There is so much to wonder at in the universe. Why spend your time bitching at me!

So, guys, what is a globular cluster?

Space...the final frontier...

Why am I a dick, Ntropy?

"I saw Eternity the other night
Like a great ring of pure and endless light.
All calm, as it was bright..."

Henry Vaughn (1622-1695), "The World."

Charles, thank you for posting this JPEG.

Guy's, you know I'm not a troll. Stop the BS.

#120 Q

Ahhh! Q! I'm glad it's you. You're rigourous and rational.
No, I wasn't speculating here. This is hard astrophysics I'm talking here, not apologetics for the Creation story.

Seems to be, that from the standpoint of a 'Watcher' at the theoretical point of the Big Bang - round about 5500 to 6000 years - Earth time - have passed. For us out here, it's been between 16-18 Billion Years - (though of course the Earth itself has only been around for about 3 or 4 Billion of that....

Hmmmm, lets compare shall we

Yairs equipment
vs.
NASA equipment

My money is on NASA.

Q

Neither the age of the Universe nor the existence of G-d has been proven or disproven.

Using one to discredit the other only serves to seperate the final reality (in my opinion) that science cannot exist without G-d and G-d cannot exist without science.

The are mutually inclusive.

And I say this as a man of faith, that no matter how old the universe is in reality or whatever one perceives it to be, there had to be a spark to light the fire.

Q
This is from a Mainline very recognized astrophysicist at Bar Ilan, btw....I'm wracking my brain but sorry, his name escapes me - read one of his books, he's written several....Anyone?

Your money is on the money. I say what comes to my mind. You should try it sometime.

#129

Brilliant!

WHAT IS A GLOVULAR CLUSTER?

Right wing conspirator (#129),

LOL!

#130 AG in Houston

Neither the age of the Universe nor the existence of G-d has been proven or disproven.

Note also that neither the age of G-d nor the existence of the Universe have been proven of disproven.

/joke

Mr Pol

Erev Tov.

Very good.

If the galaxy is 28 million light years from earth, then this picture is what the galaxy looked like 28 million years ago.

Why does this galaxy lack globular clusters?

This is obviously a fake picture, doctored by the Americans and their Israeli pupper masters. It's shaped like a matzah in order to brainwash the few people left in the world who aren't in on the Zionist conspiracy to rule the world.

#129 RWC

ROTFLAMAO!!!!!!

we musn't laugh though...I suspect a certain person is feeling very uncomfortable because of the Days of Awe, and it would be just so totally UNCOOL to Believe in THAT!!!!

#140 JM

The world? We already rule the world. The current conspiration is aimed at ruling the Universe.

Yair-A Cluster of Globs? You sound like my fourteen year old daughter trying to argue with me that Jane Goodall is a Republican! ie.. you are not making any sense.

Tiburon (#128):

Well, in that case: curious.

My turf is not astrophysics, so I can't authoritatively comment on this (without a good helping of whatever Yair is huffing, anyway -- though I have to admit the pic looked a bit too pretty and glossy to me at the first glance). I was making a general point.

And thanks for "rigourous and rational."

I know, I don't make sense. I'm just asking a simple question: Why does this galazy lack globular clusters?

Maybe it had a vasectomy?

I am going to bed.

I cannot handle this globular cluster question any longer.

#145 - Yair

Did you bother to read the link that I posted for you? Think it was about #60. Or are all the European scientists lying?

AG (#130):

My point too, actually:

Using one to discredit the other only serves to seperate the final reality --

-- whatever it may turn out to be.

Q! AG in Houston! Found it!

Gerry Schroeder, Phd astrophysicist

#145

From the link Charles posted:

Hubble easily resolves M104's rich system of globular clusters, estimated to be nearly 2,000 in number — 10 times as many as orbit our Milky Way galaxy.

Now will you shut the fuck up?

I heard globular clusters are painful and debilitating.

#128 Tiburon: I don't think it quite works like that, though I'm far from an authority. For those that buy into the "Let there be light" Big Bang theory, it's not so much an explosion radiating out into space, but an explosion of space itself, which didn't exist before the event.

The problem I have with current astronomy and cosmology is that there is a lot of speculation and estimation that is used to form or support further speculation and estimation. Well, that in itself isn't bad, but it often gets reported as "hard fact." Like in the last year or two where mainstream publications proclaimed we "know" that the universe will continue to expand, only to have "proof" that it won't come out within months. Or when we found a planetary system billions of years of a couple of thousand light years away. But... the story is that however far away something is, is also it's age, which doesn't jibe.

I love the science, the exploration, the sense of wonder. But it seems we really risk yanking the rug of public support out from underneath when there isn't discpline and credible spokesmen for what we've discovered and are discovering.

Why AG? Why can't you handle it?

#139 Yair

Why does this galaxy lack globular clusters?

What is a globular cluster? I'm unfamiliar with the term. Who knows how old the light is that was used to create the image. We could be looking at a galaxy in a certain formative age. Besides, aren't there different kind of galaxies?

#152 brownfinger

Only when your sitting down.

***Ba-dum Ching***

I heard globular clusters are painful and debilitating.

No, they are enlightening. Very!

Late to the thread, haven't read all the posts.

But has anyone noticed the surprising lack of globular clusters in the photo?

/sarcasm. What a waste of bandwith.

#128 Tiburon

I am just an beginner in Astronomy, OB/GYN being my thing, but there is no center to the universe, no point where the big bang originated. It's hard to understand but it happened everywhere in the universe at the same time. That's why everything is receeding from everything else...the best analogy I ever read was to imagine that you are sitting in a theater and all the seats suddenly moved one spot away from the seats next to them. Everyone would think that they were in the center of the seat explosion,but you'd notice that the further away from you a seat was the faster it seemed to be moving away from you.

So there is no "center" of the universe, no spot at which the big bang happened, it happened everwhere at once.... believe it or NOT....

What is a universe without globular clusters?

Well, I have the .jpg. I've had enough of anal globular clusters. And I thought VFI and Gordon were good at fucking up a thread, Yair, you're on par with them.

How long does it take to pass a globular cluster or do they have to be surgically removed?

Globular clusters are gravitationally bound concentrations of approximately ten thousand to one million stars, spread over a volume of several tens to about 200 light years in diameter.

This galaxy (ME104 ed.) is of type Sa-Sb, with both a big bright core, and as one can see in shorter exposures, also well-defined spiral arms. It also has an unusually pronounced bulge with an extended and richly populated globular cluster system - several hundred can be counted in long exposures from big telescopes.

Why is everyone so pissed off by me? What did I say?

In the Beginning...........

Absolutely awe inspiring photo Charles....Thank you for posting this............. a nice change from all the bad news out there.............

Devon Hill

Sorry, here is the site where I got that info.

cheers y'all.

#161 reaganite

...only when LGF has a bad Yair day. Which is getting more and more frequent lately.

#153 - Model 4...yes yes, of course you're correct - but check the link #150...The guy is no flake, he's mainstream scientist...
It was "Science of God" that I read by him...it was very good, very very careful in it's statements, and more so in it's speculation. He walks the reader through the science - - it sort of floored me when he reached the point of the Universe being roughly as old as Torah says - leastways from the theoretical "Beginning"...

He was first to admit that there were unresolved questions, and he outlined them as well.

Wouldn't it be great if this was the worst issue we had to discuss?

This thread is an insult to the beauty of space,

Tiburon

I just ordered the book. Many thanks and much appreciation.

Yair,

I cannot understand why you insist on being a pest. Are you not getting the message that you aren't only getting on the LGF's last nerve, but everyone else's, as well?

It isn't what you talk about, it's just the way you are.

Laila Tov Yair.

Grow up.

Photoshop.

#145 Yair

I know, I don't make sense. I'm just asking a simple question: Why does this galazy lack globular clusters?

It doesn't. It's just hard to distinguish them on this picture. Find a picture with higher resolution.

Funny, I know a guy who acts just like you , Yair. He's a post doc at UC Berkeley, a physicist. Smart guy, but impossible to converse with.

#170 Brownfinger

Wouldn't it be great if this was the worst issue we had to discuss?

it would do my wonders for my blood pressure.

"God's Sombrero" Hmm. Maybe it was "Heyzoos" all along.

AG, I just say what I think is the truth. Sue me. Ban me. What can I do?

Reading Scientific American does not an astrophysicist make.

#172 AG in Houston

Forget it. We tried, he doesn't care. Let the obnoxious prick be banned.

Why is everyone so pissed off by me? What did I say?

You, good sir, are acting like an ill mannered parrot.

#173

Yair--- photoshop

actually

Yair is photostupid

Yair: Why is everyone so pissed off by me?

Because you're saying it over and over. You could have limited yourself to #173 to get your point across. Now stfu.

Ok, Charles, Mr. Pol wants me banned. Time to do the deed. Get rid of Mr. Unpopular. Do it.

#177 Yair

Considering you made your point about 25 posts ago, have you considered letting all of us who know squat about astronomy look at the pretty picture in peace?

#159 storkdoc

yes, I "know" - - it's not a three dimensional origin point - how could it be - space, dimensions, didn't exist before... That's not at all what Schroeder is saying in his book...

Look, in the Holy Zohar, they describe what was happening back to the absolute "Aleph" - the Unknowable - How the Universe emerged cascading down through series of supernal contractions, eventually reaching the matter/energy matrix that...

Oh man, I'm way unqualified to discuss this on a thread...I"d have to sit and compose something, dig out books and references, make it accurate and right - to begin to treat the subject fairly....

My point is, that this physicist guy, Schroeder, and he's not the only one - does the math, does the extrapolations - there's no difference between what he's saying and what Hawkins is saying, only Hawkins doesn't really care about whether the Universe's History has any congruence with the Torah - it's not his interest..

Jeez. I just thought this photo lacked a large number of globular clusters.

#183 Obnoxious prick

Ok, Charles, Mr. Pol wants me banned. Time to do the deed. Get rid of Mr. Unpopular. Do it.

Check #46.

Idiot.

184 Eric Sivula

It's not about space. It's about the truth.

Yair: Charles is really generous with his bandwidth, but I do hope you've hit the tip jar mightily for abusing it so. I've posted my share of antagonism and nonsense, but the intent wasn't to be antagonistic or nonsensical. Even VFI tries to make it look like she's somewhat engaged in the conversation and trying to move it forward. That in this regard you've sunk beneath her, should give you pause. I'm done with you.

#105 Blowback,

doesn't the telescope measure absorption data.

Well, I made my pont 25 points ago, but nobody seems to get it.

This f***ing stupid galaxy doesn't even have any trees or animals! I know, I've seen trees and animals throughout my life and the one in that picture doesn't have any!! Have you ever been to a galaxy that didn't have trees? >I have lived in a galaxy since I was born,/i> trust me, it doesn't happen often. Oh, hang on. Suddenly I'm not sure.

Model4, I am being honest. I think the photo is BS. That is all.

Only slightly O/T

What is the nature of the universe; What is G-D???

...something to think about

Did God create evil?

At a certain college, there was a professor with a reputation for being tough on Christians. At the first class every semester, he asked if anyone was a Christian and proceeded to degrade and mock their statement of faith.

One semester, he asked the question and a young man raised his hand when asked if anyone was a Christian.

The professor asked, "Did G-d make everything, young man?"

"Yes he did, sir," the young man replied.

The professor responded, "If G-d made everything, then G-d made evil, and if we can only create from within ourselves, then G-d is evil."

The student didn't have a response and the professor was happy to have once again proved the Christian faith to be a myth.

Then another man raised his hand and asked, "May I ask you something, sir?"

"Yes you may," responded the professor.

The young man stood up and said, "Sir, is there such thing as cold?"

"Of course there is, what kind of a question is that? Haven't you ever been cold?"

The young man replied, "Actually, sir, cold does not exist. What we consider to be cold, is really only the absence of heat. Absolute zero is when there is absolutely no heat, but cold does not really exist. We have only created that term to describe how we feel when heat is not there."

The young man continued, "Sir, is there such thing as dark?"

Once again, the professor responded "Of course there is."

And once again, the student replied "Actually, sir, darkness does not exist. Darkness is really only the absence of light. Darkness is only a term man developed to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally, the young man asked, "Sir, is there such thing as evil?"

The professor responded, "Of course. We have rapes, and murders and violence everywhere in the world, those things are evil."

The student replied, "Actually, sir, evil does not exist. Evil is simply the absence of G-d. Evil is a term man developed to describe the absence of G-d. G-d
did not create evil. It isn't like truth, or love, which exist as virtues like heat and light. Evil is simply the state where G-d is not present, like cold without heat or darkness without light."

The professor had nothing to say.

God created globular clusters.

#185 Tiburon: It's interesting, for sure. Another take, of course, is picturing how you or I might explain something exceedingly complex to a child. Myself, I still crack up at not being allowed to measure both subatomic position and momentum at the same time. "OK, that's enough reliance on Newton. Put down the microscope and get back to the real world!"

yair...given you are certainly Jewish, certainly born of a Jewish Mother, certainly of some (often "evilly twisted") intelligence....

Why do you hate Jews, practicing Jews, so much? Why won't you just try getting ready for the Day?

Will it be pork roast, dafka? Do you really think He doesn't know that in your neshama you Love Him? And need Him?

Y'know, people would like you here, if you'd just be yourself - not this clownish characture....(and your sometimes gross abuse of others is also comical, btw - it is, after all, the internet!) However, sometimes you really do hurt others who are trying to be sincere...Do you really want to be someone like that? I've met folks like that - you'll need a lot of practice, my friend.

#139 Yair

Why does this galaxy lack globular clusters?

Shut up idiot.

#192 Dom - LOL :-)

Somebody, anybody, answer me: What the hell is a globular cluser?

#152

It's worse than passing a kidney stone...

Trust me, I know!

Oy! The troubles I've seen!

Beautiful. I could look at Hubble shots for hours & hours.

Here's a link for the Tinfoil Hat Brigade. Nasa's been in the hoax bidness a lonnnnnnnnggg time!

It's a one stop shop for all you conspiracy buffs!

I think we've seen the thread version of a splodeydope.
And a mighty sad thing to see, indeed.

P.S. Charles: It is a magnificent picture, and I appreciated you showing it. Thanks.

Tiburon,

Fight the power!

#194 fiery celt

Hi! :-) Well,.....Very Nice!

All your globular clusters are belong to us!

#155 mickthemick

the galaxy is 28 million light years away, I dont' think 28 million years is very long in terms of galaxy formation.

Keep asking me to ban you, Yair. When it happens, don't pretend to be surprised, and don't email me.

You want globular clusters? I got your globular clusters
RIGHT HERE!

#207 Jonny
Thanks. After I posted I went in and read the article and learned the age. And no, 28 million years is not very long at all in galaxy years.

I hereby challenge anybody here to define "globular cluster".

Nice, Charles! Have you see Hubble galaxy cluster pics, such as this?

Think about it - clusters of galaxies. And there are lots of clusters out there. Head spin time.

#190 Jonny

Don't know for sure, but it would not surprise me if that was the case.

Well, I made my pont 25 points ago, but nobody seems to get it.

Everyone gets the premise. We just don't agree with you. Do you think we have to? It appears so.

Yair,

The Lizardoids stole the globular clusters and they're taking them to your mommas house.

Hey, no one likes a good fight more than I do but to do so over something as splendid and majestic as this photo of Sombrero Galaxy makes me sad. Looking at this heavenly wonder, contemplating it's presence should make us awestruck and speechless. (ha ha! ; - )

Reminds me of a visit to the Grand Canyon having to knock a few heads together to stop the inane bickering long enough to inhale the beauty of where we were.

Lyla Tov! Pleasant dreams!

*Peace and sweetness to you all in the New Year*

#204 Yair

ya ya - - harder u resist, the bigger the love, my friend. "Know that I, even I, am He, and there is no G-d with Me, I kill and I make alive, I Destroy and I Create, and there is none that can Deliver out of My Hand"

Charles,
Is this really Yair, and not someone like a pissed off Edward? It is just hard to believe that someone that has been around here this long could be so dense.

The great shofar will be sounded and a still, thin sound will be heard. Angels will hasten, a trembling and terror will seize them - and they will say, 'Behold, it is the Day of Judgment, to muster the heavenly host for judgment!'

- Yom Kippur liturgy

I don't know how this is relevant to the Sombrero Galaxy. Seeing the picture just made me think of those lines for some reason.

Maybe the connection is that, no matter how unimaginably big the universe is, the basic principles of justice still apply, everywhere. Somewhere in one of the globular clusters of the Sombrero Galaxy, someone is seeking justice.

Charles...

what do you think about mod'ing the page to allow people to ignore quotes by certain people? A little tag on each message the the user could click to delete the anno-yair-ancing dweebs?

Seems like a pretty simple thing to do via cookies.

Charles, what did I say wrong? Hmmm?

Ban me and make the masses happy. The truth will come your way someday. If the coward's can't handle it, what can I do?

definition of globular clusters for mr dimYair....Galactic globular clusters, which are ancient building blocks of our Galaxy, represent a very interesting family of stellar systems in which some fundamental dynamical processes have taken place on time scales shorter than the age of the universe. In contrast with galaxies, these clusters represent unique laboratories for learning about two-body relaxation, mass segregation from equipartition of energy, stellar collisions, stellar mergers, and core collapse. In the present review, we summarize the tremendous developments, as much theoretical as observational, that have taken place during the last two decades, and which have led to a quantum jump in our understanding of these beautiful dynamical systems.

So, before Charles bans me: what is a globular cluster?

#213 Blowback,

When I was taking relativity my lecturer was getting time on the hubble telescope. All the physicists (who have a project) meet up and the person whose proposal is under discussion has to leave the room, this is basically how you get allocated time on the telescope.

I remember I asked to see some data, and I was quite dissapointed cause I thought I was gonna see some photographs. He told me that photographs were more for popular consumption and that the absorption spectra was what he was interested.

#196 Model 4

ya, that and the dead/undead cat.... ;-)

To Charles for this (unfortunately a little to raucous) break from the 'news' - a beautiful photo and many good links harvested... - Many Thanks...

(that's it for me, too - lila tov, shaina m'tukah l'kulam)

#223 yair

a densely populated spheroidal star cluster with the highest concentration of stars near its centre, found in the galactic halo

WILL YOU SHUT the FUCK UP NOW?

So what do you make of a galaxy that doesn't have GB's?

#218 RIP Ford:

Charles can read the HTML of your soul, so faking your dharma is RIGHT OUT!

Hey, RIP Ford Galaxie! HaHaHaHaHaHa(blam).

Globular clusters are gravitationally bound concentrations of approximately ten thousand to one million stars, spread over a volume of several tens to about 200 light years in diameter.

From:http://www.seds.org/messier/glob.html

That's within the Students for the Exploration and Development of Space (SEDS) website.

Do not attempt to engage me in debate. I just want you to get over yourself.

unique laboratories for learning about two-body relaxation

Hey! This is a family site!

#211 Yair

Globular Cluster - def. a series of comments, by Yair, in a single thread on LGF, that repeats the same thing, so many times, that they form their own gravitational field, that draws in more posts from Yair, until the whole thread becomes a black-hole, whose gravitational force sucks any meaning out of the original intent of the post by Charles.

I'm a lurker at worst, and an occasional poster at best, but Yair, even to someone like me, who is just here to learn from the awesome FACTS the LGF readers present daily, your observations, comments, and participation have always defied any sensible logic and frankly, I have no idea why you are here.

Healthy discourse and disagreement is one thing, and it's a great way to broaden one's horizons, but you are simply obsessed from what I have been able to tell, with your own superiority complex.

So why does this photo lack globular clusters?

Galactic globular clusters, which are ancient building blocks of our Galaxy, represent a very interesting family of stellar systems in which some fundamental dynamical processes have taken place on time scales shorter than the age of the universe. In contrast with galaxies, these clusters represent unique laboratories for learning about two-body relaxation, mass segregation from equipartition of energy, stellar collisions, stellar mergers, and core collapse. In the present review, we summarize the tremendous developments, as much theoretical as observational, that have taken place during the last two decades, and which have led to a quantum jump in our understanding of these beautiful dynamical systems.

Globular Clusters

Yair,

I'm late to this thread, but it sounds like you've got a broom stuck up Uranus.

Yair, maybe you could represent Adobe Systems. Something to do.

#227 Yair

So what do you make of a galaxy that doesn't have GB's?

That's not what you asked. You went on and on about how nobody would tell what a fucking globular cluster is. So we answered. That's it.

OK, Charles. Ban me. I give up.

Forget the globular clusters, who blowed up the owl?

who handed me the pliers to crush the dwarf?

who(injection takes effect)ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Re: #227

You're sounding like a broken record.

Paragraph 3 of the article:

Hubble easily resolves M104's rich system of globular clusters, estimated to be nearly 2,000 in number — 10 times as many as orbit our Milky Way galaxy. The ages of the clusters are similar to the clusters in the Milky Way, ranging from 10-15 billion years old. Embedded in the bright core of M104 is a smaller disk, which is tilted relative to the large disk. X-ray emission suggests that there is material falling into the compact core, where a 1-billion-solar-mass black hole resides.

#219 BC

Y'shChoach! VERY Nice! Thanks. :-) It's said the Shofar's sound is the cry of Israel to HaShem...I feel it to be "in unity"....

We shall see, we all. Just a few days now. G'mar Hatima Tova, gum keyn l'kulam....

Yair, maybe you could represent Adobe Systems. Something to do.

You work for ADOBE? Hell, I already have a job. Good luck, great company, BTW.

Is this thread about a new type of chocolate? Is this a collaboration?

#224 Jonny

I'm definitely an "amateur" astronomer.

My interests are more in just being familiar with the night-sky, a little bit about cosmology, and visual astronomy as well as astrophotography.

I have no doubt, that your academic experiences with astronomy are the norm and not the exception.

Yair

I think one of the globular cluster came out my nose the last time I sneezed.

#125   Yair

Because you won't let it drop. People don't want to hear it and you continue. You're not an expert yet you inisist on pretending to be one here. Stay at the Holiday Inn Express did you? I'll be magnanimous and narrow my accusation to this thread.

#151   Mr Pol

Well said sir! Would you mind repeating yourself just once. You know, to balance the 30 or 40 of Yair's about globular clusters

#194   fiery celt

Thank you thank you thank you thank you! I used to have that way back and lost it in an OS upgrade and have been looking for it ever since.

#228 andthenblammo!

if the nick were a reference to the Ford Galaxy, I most definitely would not be firing on all cylinders, have a nasty habit of leaving puddles of fluid wherever I sat, infrequently ran and would be belching out smoke from the rear end.....wait, maybe that is an appropriate moniker.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy....

Why does that photograph show a dearth of globular clusters? Why should I care?

Geez, Yair...

Take the time to download the large version of the picture, and enlarge it in your browser by clicking on it. Find the brightest star in the top half of the photo. Scroll straight up to the halo of the galaxy. There are three globulars clearly visible there. Scroll around the top half of the halo to the left of the screen. There are easily another dozen globulars you could find if you would just shut your damn mouth and do a minutes worth of investigation.

Admittedly, I haven't read the last 166 years of Scientific American, but I did almost major in astrophysics.

This thread is why I have started to loathe the internet even though it pays my bills.

RIP Ford:

F**ked On a Raw Deal.
Fix Or Repair Daily.
Found On Road Dead.

Please do not take this personally.

#250 andthenblammo!

Please do not take this personally.

Not. At. All. I don't care for Ford products.

#211 Yair,

Wow. Next you are going to ask me to kick you in the balls.

Consider it done :-)

Globular Clusters.

GLOBULAR CLUSTERS are very dense spherical groups of stars. They can contain from 100 thousand to 1 million stars.

I suspect that you are basing your "It's photoshopped" argument on this:

Another interesting particularity of globular clusters is that they are not restricted to the galactic plane.

Based on our rather limited knowledge, when this article was written.

Have you been to the ends of the Universe? Have you even been to another world (other than the soap opera)?

Please.

Our scientists have made a lot of progress. but we're still really just cavemen holding up a torch.

And claiming that we see everything that exists.

Alternate hypothesis: this is an ancient galaxy (28 million light-years from Earth). What we are really seeing is the birth of a galaxy.

Or it's death throes.

Sounds a lot more believable than the NASA-lied conspiracy theory you are parroting here.

#232 Yair

So why does this photo lack globular clusters?

Because its a high-resolution photo that's been compacted down to thumbnail size! God, did you even follow the link? If you want a high-rez photo that'll show you the damn globular cluster and you have the patience for a 200+ meg download, go to the link and get it!

Yair,

You remind me of my kids when they were little: "But whyyyyyyyyyyy?"

Hint - wears real thin real quick.

#231   Blowback

ROFLM(T /ploome)O

Yair:

Get your motor running.

Head out on the highway.

Looking for globular clusters.

Wherever they might be.

steppenwolf off/

Why do Children Misbehave?

Each child is different, but four basic reasons have been defined that explain why children misbehave. Discipline is the process of shaping and teaching a child to understand limits. Here are explanations of the reasons children misbehave with examples of possible discipline choices for parents:

Attention: Children think they 'belong' only when they are noticed or are the center of attention.

Power: Children think that they 'belong' when they are in control or can prove that no on can 'boss them around'.

Revenge: Children think that they 'belong' only by hurting others when they are hurt.

Inadequacy: Children think they 'belong' only when they can convince others not to expect too much from them since they feel 'helpless'.

I had nut clusters for breakfast. Raisins and nuts and stuff yum.

That is one of the most amazing things I have ever seen.

Of course, the naming is obviously part of a vast Hispanic conspiracy to control the universe.

Charles this is an uplifting image. Thanks for the break from the depressing and enraging news we see so often.

Check's in the mail.

Yair. You can't say something 100 times and make your proposition more credible thereby. The bulletin board is for the exchange of ideas. You presented your opinion. It is unfair to us to do so over and over. Your intent seems to be to be proven right, to justify yourself, to "win." It won't happen. Accept it. You just don't have the credibility considering the source of the photo.

The effect of such tedium is to alienate us. Repetition is in vain, offends and repels.

Thin about it. If you had presented one conicse post, with a lengthy galactic analysis supported by data and sources, we would have at least gotten the idea, and allowed for some doubt (which seems to be what you're after).
To spout forth with so many posts just proffering identical assertions (which are not evidence), shows that you have no exit strategy for assenters: you've engaged in a tactic of attrition. To what end?

Do you want us to be your friend, or do you want to be a curious amalgam of Mr Spock and Eric Cartman?

Screw you guys, I'm going home!

#258 Brownfinger:

Nut clusters? that explains the screen name, fella.

Please don't take this personally.

Alright, I obviously am not around people who appreciate the universe. God help you.

Anyway, this is a very lovely picture, to say the least. Say, has anyone ever wondered that, perhaps somewhere in that galaxy, there's somebody looking at a picture of our Milky Way and wondering "Wow, that's gorgeous! I wonder if anyone lives there?"

I know, kind of strange and semi-incoherent, but it was just on my mind.

Charles, your patience is amazing.

Michael Demmons, lol.

fc (#194):

The story: cute, but obviously apocryphal.

The bigger question: we have a rational mind. If it was him who endowed us with it, he also obviously chose NOT to provide a shred of evidence in favor of his own existence, a shred that our rational mind can accept.

The so-called "holy" texts are all too clearly -- when accessed with that rational mind of ours -- human concoctions, with all human flaws and follies sticking out like so many sore thumbs/donkey's ears/throbbing uncircumcised phalli etc. Even if they were "divinely inspired", they definitely got corrupted in the process, and therefore the last thing one should do is to take every single letter there as the literal word from above.

As John F. Shade (kudos to those who recognize the name) put it, regarding "God's will" : "I cannot disobey that which I don't know and the existence of which I have every concievable reason to doubt."

Once again, he chose not to give us any real pointers. Therefore, we are entitled to live our lives as our minds, emotions etc.(installed by him?) tell us to.

And regarding evil. The evil commited by men, can be rationalized away. The sheer pain of existence, of disease and decay, cannot. If he is the author of all that pain and pus, fuck him. If not -- then there is nothing but blind chance.

What a globular clusterfuck.

Why hasn't this dolt been banned?

Charles, your patience is so amazing!

Yair's smoking crack while posting...again.

#263  Yair

No, Yair, we appreciate the universe just fine. It's your actions here (in particular) that we don't appreciate. The good Lord has helped us - be as patient with you as we have.

BTW why are you practically begging to be banned? To whom will you run seething and whining about the injustice?

Yair's hung up on globular clusters and I'm still trying to figure out why every time I google "red giants and white dwarfs" I get Mao Tse Tung and Grumpy.

#267   Q

To coin a phrase - nice! Quick to dismiss His existance unless He's the reason things are a mess. How very generous.

262 andthenblammo! 10/2/2003 07:44PM PST

#258 Brownfinger:

Nut clusters? that explains the screen name, fella.

Please don't take this personally.

ROTFLMAO Fiber is a good thing, but use 2-ply.

RIP Ford (#218),

Is this really Yair, and not someone like a pissed off Edward? It is just hard to believe that someone that has been around here this long could be so dense.

Yup it's really Yair.

Check this thread where he asks this: "So I reiterate, how does money get to Hamas" over and over and over again.

Well at least he's not insulting everyone this time.

This is like watching World War II newsreel, as the Kamikazi dives in against the Bofors tracer....boomboomboomboomlayboom!Yairrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrboom!

Okay, I'll go to my room now.

God this crack is good. Mmmmm.

#271 NTrophy

To whom will you run seething and whining about the injustice?

Indymedia, most likely...

#274 Brownfinger:

2 ply? Buddy, with nut clusters, try Kevlar.

I'ts late here, and I'm giggling like a goofball. I better go to bed. Cheers!

NTropy (#273):

Generous, you say? Well, maybe he simply couldn't do any better -- then he is himself flawed. But in that case, what right does he have to demand absolute obedience and sit in absolute judgement?

#267 Q

'K....you caught me lurking ;-)

Your challenge, IMHO, (should you choose to accept it! LOL!) is to shift your ontological paradigm, Q.

You have the mirror reversed. He did not Create the Universe to be known! - He already is quite aware of Who He Is. He Created the Universe to Bestow His Good on Another!

Once an individual, you f'r instance, begins to view Creation from this perspective - - The Universe is nothing BUT pointers!

Of COURSE the Universe can be viewed in mirror image, empty of Meaning! How else could FREE CHOICE EXIST!

anyway....we'll take this up, G-d Willing, on another thread, after the HolyDays...(ya, I'm hit&run posting! - gotta be up early - but couldn't resist the second last word ;-))

What the hell? Why hasn't Yair been banned? Has it been making significant contributions to other threads that I've been missing? Please, get rid of it -- it's one of the most obnoxious trolls I've ever seen on here.

Q

The impossible argument. No one can convince you.

Where I see order I deduce an order behind it.

You know the clockmaker's paradox, so I won't repeat it.

Galaxies:

Galaxies come in many shapes, sizes, and densities. There are two major types of galaxies: ellipticals and spirals. Ellipticals are massive blobs of older, red stars with very little free dust and gas and very little ongoing star formation. Spirals are disk-like structures with lots of gas, dust, and new-bright-blue stars which populate spiral arms, which are not believed to be stable structures but instead the consequence of density waves that trigger star formation, lighting up the spiral arms with the new-bright-blue stars. Spirals often have a core and an extended halo of old, red stars that are the staple of the ellipticals.

Stars can be by their lonesome, but they tend to be congregated in groups. Star formation in spirals gives rise to galactic or open cluster -- like the Pleiades. These clusters are small, and as they age they tend to disperse. Stars can also be bunched together into massive behives called globular clusters. The Milky Way has globular clusters, but ellipticals have globular clusters in abundance, only they are hard to see in photos of distant galaxies because they are just pin points on most photographs. The globular clusters are made up of old, red stars, and because they are so dense, they tend to hang together gravitationally for long periods of time -- the globulars of the Milky Way are old, perhaps the oldest objects in the Universe while the Magellenic Clouds have much younger globulars.

The globular is a different beast than the galactic cluster, just like the elliptical is different than the spiral galaxy. We can see galactic clusters in the process of formation, but how globulars form, and they are believed to form by a different process, is a mystery. It is believed that while galactic clusters are formed in the density waves that concentrate star-forming dust and gas in the spiral arms of a spiral galaxy as part of an ongoing process, globulars are formed in massive star bursts. It is theorized that globular formation and perhaps the formation of the larger elliptical galaxies is the result of massive collisions between galaxies, where all the dust and gas is used up in massive star bursts leaving quiescent and featureless elliptical galaxies behind.

The Sombrero Galaxy is a platypus of galaxies in that it kind of looks like an elliptical but it has that dust lane that is the sombrero rim. What is amazing about the Hubble picture is that it shows that the dust lane is part of a proper spiral galaxy embedded in a particularly dense halo. So this platypus is not a bird or a reptile but is a proper mammal (spiral galaxy) afterall. Simply amazing image.

Yair reminds me of the professors at the University of Padua, who were so educated and so intelligent that they wouldn't fall for the trickery played by Galileo's telescope, instead proclaiming that Galileo and his telescope must both be posessed by demons.

ESO web page on the Sombrero Galaxy

#281   Q

The only flaw I see is in your reasoning but hey, that's nothing new for me. You see things your way and I see things mine. We differ. Oh well.

Throbert McGee used to use Occam's Razor to explain why he was an agnostic. To him, the simpler explanation was to believe that life the universe and everything was some colossal accident rather than the creation of God.

It always amuses me, though, to see how comfortable people are in their disbelief til things go sideways. Then of course it's all God's fault.

#283 steve in BDA

i think it's 'cause it's believed he's building to an 'epiphany' of sorts, and we all wanna watch....

like watching a pretty butterfly emerge from an ugly slimy greasy cocoon....

Will somebody tell me who is glo..., I mean, John Francis Shade?

Personally, I wrote Yair off a few weeks ago after the comment "We get the New York Times every day, aside from the bias, they get the facts straight."

Looks like his true colors came out in this thread.

Oh, and by the way, from Charles' original link:

"Hubble easily resolves M104's rich system of globular clusters, estimated to be nearly 2,000 in number -- 10 times as many as orbit our Milky Way galaxy."

[Link: hubblesite.org...]

On topic, were it not for America and the rest of the civilized world, no Muslim on Earth would ever know what a Sombrero Galaxy was, or what it actually looked like.

Kudos to civilization.