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1 freetoken  Mon, May 31, 2010 2:23:58pm

Kitchen knives and misc pieces from the toolbox?

2 Gus  Mon, May 31, 2010 2:34:34pm

re: #1 freetoken

Kitchen knives and misc pieces from the toolbox?

Domestically, the legal definition for a weapon is as follows:

A weapon is defined under various federal, state, and local laws, which vary by jurisdiction. A weapon is generally something used to injure, defeat, or destroy and may cover many types of instruments, such as a blackjack, slingshot, billy, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, pistol, revolver, or any other firearm, razor with an unguarded blade, and any metal pipe or bar used or intended to be used in a club, among others.

The following is an example of a municipal definition of a dangerous weapon:

"Section 13.68.010 Dangerous weapon--Defined.

As used in this chapter, "dangerous weapon" means and includes, but is not limited to:

1. Any knife having a blade three inches or more in length, or any snap-blade or spring-blade knife regardless of the length of the blade;
2. Any ice pick or similar sharp stabbing tool;
3. Any straight edge razor or any razor blade fitted to a handle;
4. Any cutting, stabbing or bludgeoning weapon or device capable of inflicting grievous bodily harm;
5. Any dirk or dagger or bludgeon;
6. Any "taser public defender" or other similar electronic immobilizer which causes, by means of an electrical current, a person to experience muscle spasms and extreme pain, followed by unconsciousness. (Ord. 4814-NS § 1, 1975: Ord. 2881-NS § 1, 1947)"

As you can see, the images included meet the definition of a weapon under these guidelines.

Think of a boarding party as a SWAT team entering a residence. If one were to threaten an officer with any such weapons as defined here and shown in the images provided from the IDF it would result in the immediate neutralization of the suspect.

The weapons found and the infrared videos provided by the IDF clearly show that the perpetrators on the Mavi Marmara were far from pacifistic and peaceful. Had they stood down when the IDF boarding party rappelled down to the ship there would have been little if any deaths of injuries.

3 Daniel Ballard  Mon, May 31, 2010 2:56:58pm

re: #1 freetoken

Yeah they got clever. Ordinary objects are quite deadly. In trained hands well it's awful. I think that ship was a trap.

4 Mich-again  Mon, May 31, 2010 6:08:39pm

re: #1 freetoken

Kitchen knives and misc pieces from the toolbox?

Seriously, kitchen knives? Do you really have 12" blades in your silverware drawer? I suppose the wooden bats were just chopsticks.

5 shai_au  Tue, Jun 1, 2010 4:43:44am

re: #4 Mich-again

Seriously, kitchen knives? Do you really have 12" blades in your silverware drawer? I suppose the wooden bats were just chopsticks.

I don't think he was referring to knives you use to spread butter. Lots of knives are used in the kitchen. I'm just saying.

Anyway, I am frankly amazed that no Israeli soldiers were killed. Sure, they had guns, but if half a dozen people are setting on you with the kinds of weapons in the photos, you'd be lucky to escape with your life.

6 simoom  Tue, Jun 1, 2010 9:14:41am

I see freetoken's point. The IDF site describes these items as: "Pictures of Weapons Found on the Mavi Marmara Flotilla Ship", which seems to be everything that could be used as a weapon that was found searching the ship.

At least half the knives pictured could easily be cutlery from the ship's kitchen (steak knives, chef's knives, etc), and while they could also have been used as weapons, the site doesn't seem to be claiming they were -- just that they were found on the ship. Many other items appear to be the contents of the ship's tool chest, which once again may have been used as weapons during the boarding, but that doesn't seem to be what's being claimed.

The one thing that does point to preparation for an armed conflict is the wooden clubs. I can't think of a reason for their presence on the ship (and they were clearly in use in a number of the videos) except as weapons for use in repelling an attempted boarding of the ship.

7 simoom  Tue, Jun 1, 2010 9:28:39am

Also, hopefully any weapons that were suspected of having been used in the clash were bagged as evidence, instead of potentially contaminated by being dumped in piles on the ship's deck.


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 Frank says:

You can tell what they think of our music by the places we are forced to play it in. This looks like a good spot for a livestock show. -- The Mothers of Invention were opening for Cream in April of 1968 in Chicago. The place was very large and did look like it had been used for displays of cattle and other such animals.