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1 webevintage  Jul 10, 2010 9:30:29am

I guess it is just easier to lie then to deal in facts for these people.
And even when the lies are pointed out they just give you some crazy answer like “OMG! You don’t live here, how do you know what it is like? We are scared to death!!!!!” as if other areas of the country do not have crime.

2 blueraven  Jul 10, 2010 9:53:57am

re: #1 webevintage

I guess it is just easier to lie then to deal in facts for these people.
And even when the lies are pointed out they just give you some crazy answer like “OMG! You don’t live here, how do you know what it is like? We are scared to death!!!” as if other areas of the country do not have crime.

And then you get GOP mouthpiece, Fox news, repeating these lies over and over. That along with most Republican elected officials and candidates spewing the same crap, give rise to the “oft repeated lie becomes perception, thus reality”.

3 iceweasel  Jul 10, 2010 11:16:39am

re: #1 webevintage

re: #2 blueraven

Exactly right, both of you. goddamned frank has a great way of putting this: “It doesn’t matter if you believe it, you just have to be willing to say you do” or “It doesn’t matter if it’s true, you just have to be willing to say it.”
That’s pretty much the wingnut motto now.

4 mojopundit  Jul 11, 2010 6:27:36am

There have been several instances of beheadings on both sides of the border and also threats of beheadings while demanding ransom. A very slight curiosity beyond what you already think you know would turn these up.

Here’s one

Here’s another

Read this too

I assume all three of you live far, far away from the Arizona border (as do I), but you’re more than willing to pile on Milbank’s latest biased screed.

I’d suggest that instead of hanging out here and reinforcing each other’s biases, pull your heads out and look around.

5 Gus  Jul 11, 2010 7:50:44am

Border city crime down: Crime statistics show decline in 2008-2009
By Diana Washington Valdez El Paso Times
Posted: 07/02/2010 05:00:50 AM MDT

EL PASO — El Paso and five other large cities on or near the border reported decreases in crime from 2008 to 2009 — the peak years of Mexico’s drug cartel wars — according to FBI statistics.

The numbers support President Barack Obama’s contention that border crime has decreased.

“Contrary to some of the reports that you see, crime along the border is down,” Obama said Thursday during his speech on immigration reform.

Chula Vista, Calif., Tucson and the Texas cities of El Paso, Laredo, McAllen and Browns ville reported declines or held steady for most of the 10 crimes the FBI tracks each year for cities with populations of 100,000 or more.

The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports include statistics for violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, property crime, burglary, larceny, auto theft and arson.

Obama also said, “We have more boots on the ground near the Southwest border than at any time in our history,” including doubling the numbers of people assigned to Border Enforcement Security Task Forces as border intelligence analysts.

The president sought to counter claims by politicians such as U.S. Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., who alleged that Obama wants to pursue immigration reform without first committing adequate resources to secure the border.


6 Gus  Jul 11, 2010 7:52:30am

Bloomberg’s Al Hunt says crime is down in Arizona - True

The debate about immigration often involves discussions about whether illegal immigrants cause more crime.

The topic came up on ABC’s This Week on July 4, 2010, when Al Hunt, the executive editor in Washington for Bloomberg News, criticized John McCain for the Republican senator’s comments about crime in Arizona.

McCain had explained his shift on immigration by saying, “The violence is incredibly high. The human smuggling and drug cartels are at a level of violence where 25,000 — 23,000 Mexican citizens have been murdered in the last few years, 5,000 already this year. There’s a level of violence which has increased to a significant degree, which makes the situation far different than it was in 2007” when the Senate last considered immigration reform.

He added, “But I invite the president to come to the border, and he can see for himself the absolute necessity of getting our border secure before more violence spills over onto our side of the border… It is not the same as it was in 2007. And the people deserve not to have our ranchers murdered, not to have a deputy shot by a drug smuggler with an AK-47 in Pinal County. The situation has dramatically changed, and the statistics absolutely back that up.”

During the roundtable discussion on This Week, Hunt told host Jake Tapper: “I must say, John McCain, in his interview with you, Jake, that was extraordinary to say that crime is up there. He’s talking about Mexico. Crime is down in Arizona. Every single academic study that’s been done shows that immigrants commit fewer crimes.”

It is unclear whether McCain was suggesting that crime in Arizona was up because of illegal immigrants, but we were curious about Hunt’s claim that crime in Arizona — a state that ranks 6th for the estimated population of illegal immigrants — was down.

Because Hunt did not specify the types of crime, we’ll examine all types.

We checked the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports as well as data from Arizona’s Department of Public Safety and found Hunt is correct that crime is down.

From 2004 to 2008, data from Arizona’s DPS shows a 23 percent drop in the overall crime rate, while the FBI’s statistics on Arizona show a 19 percent drop. Although the FBI has not released all of the data on 2009, Arizona’s statistics show the crime rate in 2009 dropped an additional 12 percent.

“Crime has been going down, overall, in Arizona,” said Tony LaRose, an associate professor of criminology at the University of Tampa, but he noted it has been a national trend for the past almost three decades.

The trend holds even if you only measure violent crime, which James Alan Fox, a professor of criminology at Northeastern University, said is the type of crime people think of when discussing crime and illegal immigrants. The violent crime rate fell 11 percent from 2004 to 2008 in Arizona.

Whether or not Hunt was correctly interpreting McCain’s comments is outside of the scope of the claim, but he is right about Arizona crime going down. So we rate Hunt’s claim True.

7 Gus  Jul 11, 2010 7:59:41am

Here we will let the statistics speak for themselves.

FBI - Table 2 — Preliminary Annual UCR (Uniform Crime Report)

January to December 2009 - Percent Change by Region

Violent Crime:

Total -5.5
Northeast -3.5
Midwest -4.6
South -6.6
West -5.6


Total -7.2
Northeast -8.0
Midwest -3.9
South -7.8
West -8.3

8 Gus  Jul 11, 2010 8:03:43am

IMMIGRATION: Border towns say violent crime rates low
The Arizona Republic

NOGALES (AP) - Assistant Police Chief Roy Bermudez shakes his head and smiles when he hears politicians and pundits declaring that Mexican cartel violence is overrunning his Arizona border town.

“We have not, thank God, witnessed any spillover violence from Mexico,” Bermudez says emphatically. “You can look at the crime stats. I think Nogales, Arizona, is one of the safest places to live in all of America.”

FBI Uniform Crime Reports and statistics provided by police agencies, in fact, show that the crime rates in Nogales, Douglas, Yuma and other Arizona border towns have remained essentially flat for the past decade, even as drug-related violence has spiraled out of control on the other side of the international line. Statewide, rates of violent crime also are down.


In Nogales, Ariz., residents seem bemused and annoyed by their town’s perilous reputation. Yes, they sometimes hear the gunfire across the border. No, they don’t feel safe visiting the sister city across the line.

But with cops and federal agents everywhere, they see no danger on their streets.

“There’s no violence here,” said Francisco Hernandez, 31, who works in a sign shop and lives on a ranch along the border. “It doesn’t drain over, like people are saying.”

Leo Federico, 61, a retired teacher, said he has been amazed to hear members of Congress call for National Guard troops in the area.

“That’s politics,” he said, shrugging. “It’s all about votes. … We have plenty of law enforcement.”

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