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1 Gus  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 4:27:41pm

More on Al-Waleed:

In 2002, Al-Waleed donated 18.5 million British pounds ($27 million) to the families of Palestinians during a TV telethon following Israeli operations in the West Bank city of Jenin. The telethon was ordered by Saudi King Fahd to help relatives of Palestinian martyrs. The Saudi government said the term "martyrs" referred not to suicide bombers but to "Palestinians who are victimized by Israeli terror and violence." However, a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council said that "some money will go to the families of suicide bombers.

2 captdiggs  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 4:30:09pm

I'm curious.
Does anyone here know of a way to prevent a person from buying stock shares on the open market?

3 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 4:35:16pm

re: #2 captdiggs

I'm curious.
Does anyone here know of a way to prevent a person from buying stock shares on the open market?

Lol@wingnuts

4 captdiggs  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 4:37:54pm

re: #3 Killgore Trout

I take it you have no answer to the question.
It turns out that al-waleed owns large blocks of stock of things like Apple, Disney, Citigroup, Motorola, and numerous other American companies.

5 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 4:39:59pm

re: #4 captdiggs

I take it you have no answer to the question.
It turns out that al-waleed owns large blocks of stock of things like Apple, Disney, Citigroup, Motorola, and numerous other American companies.

So why are you so concerned that Cordoba House might get funding from Saudi Arabia?

6 Gus  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 4:40:13pm

re: #4 captdiggs

I take it you have no answer to the question.
It turns out that al-waleed owns large blocks of stock of things like Apple, Disney, Citigroup, Motorola, and numerous other American companies.

Bologna. It's a clear case of a double standard being practiced by News Corporation and subsequently Fox News.

7 Four More Tears  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 4:40:33pm

re: #4 captdiggs

I take it you have no answer to the question.
It turns out that al-waleed owns large blocks of stock of things like Apple, Disney, Citigroup, Motorola, and numerous other American companies.

omg... it's too late. Stealth Jihad!

/you

8 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 4:43:12pm

It's pretty amazing. They're all worked up at the thought that Cordoba House might receive funding from Saudi Arabia, but don't even blink at the fact that the number two shareholder in their main media source is a Saudi prince.

Straining at gnats, swallowing camels.

9 captdiggs  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 4:44:54pm

re: #5 Charles

I think there's a vast difference between taking money on a voluntary basis as a donation , and someone buying stock in the free markets of the world.
I certainly remember Giuliani's refusal to accept the prince's money after 9/11.

Now, I ask again, how can any company, be it FOX or Apple, restrict stock sales in an open market?

10 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 4:45:45pm

re: #9 captdiggs

I think there's a vast difference between taking money on a voluntary basis as a donation , and someone buying stock in the free markets of the world.
I certainly remember Giuliani's refusal to accept the prince's money after 9/11.

Now, I ask again, how can any company, be it FOX or Apple, restrict stock sales in an open market?

The rules of stock trading are not a suicide pact.

11 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 4:49:41pm

re: #9 captdiggs

I think there's a vast difference between taking money on a voluntary basis as a donation , and someone buying stock in the free markets of the world.
I certainly remember Giuliani's refusal to accept the prince's money after 9/11.

Now, I ask again, how can any company, be it FOX or Apple, restrict stock sales in an open market?

You are also ignoring that Murdoch invests in Al-Waleed's companies too. Their relationship is reciprocal. Al-Waleed made some rather offensive comments after 9-11. He also has a financial relationship to the mosque and fox news. I thought you guys were interested in where the money for the mosque is coming from. Now we know.

12 Gus  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 4:50:04pm

re: #9 captdiggs

I think there's a vast difference between taking money on a voluntary basis as a donation , and someone buying stock in the free markets of the world.
I certainly remember Giuliani's refusal to accept the prince's money after 9/11.

Now, I ask again, how can any company, be it FOX or Apple, restrict stock sales in an open market?

Uh huh. Sure.

Giuliani rejects $10 million from Saudi prince

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Mayor Rudy Giuliani said Thursday the city would not accept a $10 million donation for disaster relief from Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal after the prince suggested U.S. policies in the Middle East contributed to the September 11 attacks.

"I entirely reject that statement," Giuliani said. "There is no moral equivalent for this [terrorist] act. There is no justification for it. The people who did it lost any right to ask for justification for it when they slaughtered 4,000 or 5,000 innocent people."

Prince Alwaleed gave the mayor a check after a Thursday morning memorial service at Ground Zero, the site of the World Trade Center towers destroyed in the attacks.

The prince offered his condolences to the people of New York, but after the ceremony he released a statement suggesting the United States "must address some of the issues that led to such a criminal attack."

"The check has not been deposited. The Twin Towers Fund has not accepted it," Giuliani said in a statement late Thursday.

Continues.

13 captdiggs  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 4:56:49pm

re: #11 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure Murdoch's investment in Rotana was finalized.
But, that's all still no excuse for Rauf to accept funding from a person who also subsidized suicide bombings.
If Murdoch does business with the prince, shame on him.
If Rauf accepts money from the prince, shame on him.

14 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 5:00:21pm

re: #13 captdiggs

If Murdoch does business with the prince, shame on him.
If Rauf accepts money from the prince, shame on him.

Why is Fox news allowed to have offices near ground zero but the mosque is considered offensive? Why doesn't Fox set the example of sensitivity to the victims of 9-11 and relocate?

15 captdiggs  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 5:02:05pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Why is Fox news allowed to have offices near ground zero but the mosque is considered offensive? Why doesn't Fox set the example of sensitivity to the victims of 9-11 and relocate?

As far as I know...no one from FOX flew planes into those buildings.

16 Four More Tears  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 5:03:18pm

re: #15 captdiggs

As far as I know...no one from FOX flew planes into those buildings.

Neither did anyone building this Community Center.

Dumb ass.

17 Gus  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 5:09:27pm

re: #15 captdiggs

As far as I know...no one from FOX flew planes into those buildings.

News Corporation acquires a stake in Rotana Group

London, February 23, 2010 – News Corporation today announced that it has reached an agreement to buy a 9.09 per cent stake in Rotana Group, the Middle East media group. Under the terms of the agreement, News Corporation will acquire newly-issued shares in Rotana for $70 million. The company has an option to increase its stake to 18.18 per cent in the 18 months following completion.

Then read this:

News Corp buys stake in Rotana entertainment

One of the Rotana's TV channels, Khalijia, recently began airing an Arabic-dubbed version of the controversial Turkish series "Valley of the Wolves," which caused a recent diplomatic row between Turkey and Israel. The Jewish state has labelled the show anti-Semitic.

Advertisements for the show aired on Khalijia and other Rotana channels remind viewers that the programme was behind the Turkish-Israeli spat.

18 captdiggs  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 5:16:30pm

re: #17 Gus 802

And that excuses Rauf from taking money from someone who supported suicide bombers?
That's what this is all about, right?
If Murdoch does business with the Saudis, then it's ok for Rauf to take his blood money donation.

19 Gus  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 5:16:51pm

To further illustrate the double standard by New Corp and their favorite "stockholder" lets look back at what Human Events had to say in 2005:

When Harvard Met Saudi
By Ben Shapiro

[...]

Certainly Prince Alwaleed bin Talel sees charity that way. Prince Alwaleed bin Talel, the man donating $10 million to Harvard, is the same man who attempted to donate millions to victims of the September 11 terrorist attacks, while at the same time ripping American foreign policy in the Middle East. He told then-New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani that “Our Palestinian brethren continue to be slaughtered at the hands of Israelis as the world [looks the other way].” Giuliani turned down the money.

Harvard did not. The University -- and Larry Summers in particular -- should be ashamed of themselves. For a school so committed to “diversity” that it wants to ban the military from recruiting, embracing Saudi moneybags is sure a funny way to demonstrate strength of conviction.

[...]

20 Gus  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 5:17:25pm

re: #18 captdiggs

And that excuses Rauf from taking money from someone who supported suicide bombers?
That's what this is all about, right?
If Murdoch does business with the Saudis, then it's ok for Rauf to take his blood money donation.

What blood money? Got a link besides something from the New York Post?

21 captdiggs  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 5:20:57pm

re: #20 Gus 802

What blood money?

You just posted some very good evidence that donations from the Saudis for this *Islamic center* are tainted, to say the least.

22 Gus  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 5:21:35pm

Or this?

Balancing the Bias
By Asaf Romirowsky
Jerusalem Post | Wednesday, February 04, 2009

[...]

Even more problematic is the Prince Alwaleed bin Talal Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding, named for the Saudi prince whose $20 million donation in 2005 gave the center's leader, John Esposito, a much louder voice in the Middle East studies community. Since then, the Alwaleed Center has become the locus of academic apologetics for Wahhabism in America. Along with his colleagues Yvonne Haddad, John Voll and others, Esposito and the newly rejuvenated center are now in a position to proliferate a glossy vision of Wahhabi Islam to Americans.

The Alwaleed Center isn't shy about forging ties to radical Islamist groups with links to those who have launched attacks against Jews and Americans worldwide. A prime example of such collaboration is a joint conference held by the Alwaleed Center with the United Association for Studies and Research (UASR) in July 2000. UASR was by then known as the political command for Hamas in the United States, and Esposito's co-chair for the conference was then-UASR executive director Ahmed Yousef, who fled the country in 2005 to avoid prosecution and consequently served as a Hamas spokesman in Gaza.

[...]

You think Fox News would be conducting Six Degrees of Separation of Those That Don't Eat Bacon within their own backyard? I'd pay to watch that.

23 Gus  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 5:22:31pm

re: #21 captdiggs

You just posted some very good evidence that donations from the Saudis for this *Islamic center* are tainted, to say the least.

Then money that is used to support News Corporation is tainted. To say the least.

24 captdiggs  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 5:28:37pm

re: #23 Gus 802

Tell you what. I'll condemn Murdoch for his business dealings with al waleed.
Will you condemn Rauf's acceptance of money from the same person?

25 Gus  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 5:29:30pm

A look back:

News Corp. partners with Saudi prince who Fox News lambasted

Fox News personalities criticized Al-Waleed and praised Giuliani for not accepting the donation

Sean Hannity: Al-Waleed's statement was "such an egregious, outrageous, unfair offense that I would have nothing to do with his money either." On the October 22, 2001, edition of Fox News' Hannity & Colmes (accessed via Nexis), Sean Hannity said, "[T]his is a man that blames the United States and their policies for the attack that took place on September 11th. That is such an egregious, outrageous, unfair offense that I would have nothing to do with his money either, and I applaud what Mayor Giuliani did. It showed a lot of guts and character."

Hannity: "This is a bad guy. Rudy was right to decline the money." On the December 13, 2005, edition of Hannity & Colmes (accessed via Nexis), while discussing a grant Al-Waleed gave Georgetown and Harvard universities, Hannity said: "This is a bad guy. Rudy was right to decline the money. Why would these universities take money from him?"

Mara Liasson: "[I]t was an outrageous statement and the mayor did the right thing and refused the money." Discussing Giuliani's decision to return the money on the October 11, 2001, edition of Fox News' Special Report (accessed via Nexis), Fox News contributor Mara Liasson said Al-Waleed's statement was "completely false," "outrageous," and that "the mayor did the right thing and refused the money."

Bill Sammon: "[I]t's blood money and we're better off without it." During the same discussion with Liasson, Fox News Washington managing editor Bill Sammon said of the money, "[W]hen you think about it, upon reflection, you think, you know, this guy is essentially trying to buy legitimacy for his extreme views, which is, you know, that the American policy towards Israel is to blame for this attack on the World Trade Center, which, of course, is outrageous, as Mara says." He continued: "And so I think it was the right thing to turn it down. Especially when you think about $10 million, in this grand scheme of $800 million. I mean, that's less than 2 percent of that. And when you look at the generosity of the American people, you know, that $10 million could be made up by people who are outraged by this very story. So I don't think -- I think it's blood money and we're better off without it."

26 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 5:42:12pm

He's the closest thing to a radical we've seen associated with the mosque. He supports Sharia, stoning, beheading, beating women who've been raped, killing homosexuals. He's against freedom and democracy. He's pro-burka, against Jews, Christians and Israel. He supports Hamas and radical Wahabiism. He's also a personal friend of George Bush and Rupert Murdoch's business partner.

Maybe if wingnuts spent less time watching Fox News maybe this dickhead would have less money to throw around building mosques near ground zero.

27 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:49:27pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

He's the closest thing to a radical we've seen associated with the mosque. He supports Sharia, stoning, beheading, beating women who've been raped, killing homosexuals. He's against freedom and democracy. He's pro-burka, against Jews, Christians and Israel. He supports Hamas and radical Wahabiism. He's also a personal friend of George Bush and Rupert Murdoch's business partner.

Maybe if wingnuts spent less time watching Fox News maybe this dickhead would have less money to throw around building mosques near ground zero.

True, but reasonable people should demand that Imam Rauf return that shitbird Al-Waleed's money. If he keeps it, he is in bed with Radical Islam.

28 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:53:31pm

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

True, but reasonable people should demand that Imam Rauf return that shitbird Al-Waleed's money. If he keeps it, he is in bed with Radical Islam.

So is Fox News "in bed with radical Islam" too?

29 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:58:07pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

He's the closest thing to a radical we've seen associated with the mosque. He supports Sharia, stoning, beheading, beating women who've been raped, killing homosexuals. He's against freedom and democracy. He's pro-burka, against Jews, Christians and Israel. He supports Hamas and radical Wahabiism. He's also a personal friend of George Bush and Rupert Murdoch's business partner.

Maybe if wingnuts spent less time watching Fox News maybe this dickhead would have less money to throw around building mosques near ground zero.

America's clear disinterest in coming up with alternatives to oil is the problem. Alwaleed bin Talal has so much money, he exists above all laws, as does Saudi Arabia itself. Until we get serious about solving this problem -- and I mean really serious -- this is what we're going to be living with.

30 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:58:42pm

re: #28 Charles

So is Fox News "in bed with radical Islam" too?

In that sense, I suppose I have to say yes. No one in the US should have anything to do with Al-Waleed.

31 captdiggs  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:00:19pm

re: #16 JasonA

Neither did anyone building this Community Center.

Dumb ass.

You know what's "dumb"---pretending that Islam had nothing to do with 9/11.

I find it amusing that none of you has seen the problem with supporting Rauf collecting funds from the saudi prince who supports terror...while hyperventilating your outrage at Murdoch.
That's why this entire controversy has now become such a partisan circus.
The left must, absolutely must, regardless of anything, support this project, because the right objects to it.
But to buttress that support, you have to blindly swallow all the partisan rhetoric and demonize all who see differently.

It seems to me that Rauf's professed goal of "building bridges" is dead on arrival.

32 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:10:57pm

re: #30 Dark_Falcon

In that sense, I suppose I have to say yes. No one in the US should have anything to do with Al-Waleed.

But for some reason, the right wing is focusing only on Muslims. Why do you think that is?

33 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:15:24pm

re: #32 Charles

But for some reason, the right wing is focusing only on Muslims. Why do you think that is?

Because they can't or won't see the threats in their own ranks. They've decided to embrace the crazies, and it worries me greatly.

34 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:19:03pm

re: #31 captdiggs

Imam Rauf is a Sufi.

In Saudi Arabia, Sufis are considered heretics. But don't let that stop you from expressing your uninformed prejudice.

35 jaunte  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:19:03pm

re: #31 captdiggs


That's why this entire controversy has now become such a partisan circus.
The left must, absolutely must, regardless of anything, support this project, because the right objects to it.
But to buttress that support, you have to blindly swallow all the partisan rhetoric and demonize all who see differently.


Looking past your left/right characterization of the issues, there's a question in the center. How far are opponents of the project willing to go to change our legal system to prevent its construction? Our laws allow it. What do you propose?

36 captdiggs  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:50:15pm

re: #34 Charles

uninformed prejudice

Have you been to the middle east?
I have. Egypt, Yemen, Lebanon, Turkey, as well as Israel and Saudi Arabia.
I've also had many a long discussion with my sister-in-law, a Phd professor of middle eastern history and Islamic culture at a large University.
She's sympathetic to the plight of muslims, but she also knows that there are serious problems within Islam that is causing a lot of death and destruction in the world.

In saudi arabia, Shia are also heretics as well as numerous other sub-Islamic factions. Interestingly, despite some outstanding differences between Islamic sufism and wahabbist theology, both see shariah law as crucial to their beliefs.

37 samuraishake  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:09:22pm

re: #31 captdiggs

The left must, absolutely must, regardless of anything, support this project, because the right objects to it.

I'm a bit left. Well, a bit more than a bit. I support the project because they are free to do so. Some of the "left" (Harry Reid among others) have joined in the objections. My support of this project has nothing to do with politics - it has everything to do with religious freedom.

On a side note - I will be you $500 that no terrorism, or anything related to terrorism will come from the building of this community center. If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words and pay up.

38 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:25:13pm

re: #36 captdiggs

Have you been to the middle east?

Yes, several times.

I have.

Wow. I'm impress.

Would you care to address the fact that Imam Rauf is a Sufi, or are you just interested in impressing me with your passport stamps?

39 jaunte  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:30:13pm

re: #37 samuraishake

My support of this project has nothing to do with politics - it has everything to do with religious freedom.


Likewise for me. No one seems eager to address what we're supposed to set up in its place.

40 captdiggs  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:05:06am

re: #38 Charles

What am I supposed to address?
Sufism has many different variations. Some are peaceful, and some, like the Chechens, are not.
Rauf is not the end all be all of the project. Despite his assigning "complicity" for 9/11 to US "policy", he's the best face they could put on the project.
I just find it amazing that so many here wholeheartedly approve of Rauf's Saudi terror connected funding.

41 Michael McBacon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 8:30:38am

So will more opponents of teh mosk turn against their beloved Fox News?

42 jordash1212  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:02:38pm

re: #40 captdiggs

re: #36 captdiggs

Let's forget all your pretension about Islam and its many variations and focus on you begging the question. According to you the building of Park51 is wrong because it has ties to terrorism because Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has ties to terrorism. Setting aside the obvious problem that one spiritual leader does not control the minds of his congregation, let's think about who exactly is Prince al-Waleed bin-Talal.

Prince al-Waleed bin-Talal has connections to some shady characters. I'm sure if I tried hard enough I could make a connection from you, anyone, or anything to a violent or violence-espousing company. Ironically, you're categorizing Prince al-Waleed bin-Talal with al-Qaeda even though al-Qaeda vows to destroy the Saudi Government. Why do you think bin-Laden is in exile from Saudi Arabia and resorted to living in caves in Afghanistan? That logical incongruence shows your bigotry, your ignorance, or both.

You're not really establishing anything. Instead your attempting to label this particular group of Muslims as prone to terrorism precisely because other radical Muslims were responsible for 9/11. In the process you throw out the fact that this imam is praised for his moderate temperament, attempt to bridge American and Muslim relations, and his denunciation of 9/11. I imagine even if this imam did explicitly denounce Hamas live on the mainstream media, you'd say his denunciation was a facade, a manipulation in order to gain approval for his mosque (which is more of a community center than a mosque to begin with).

The point here is that you, like all the others regurgitating the rightwing talking points, categorize Muslims all the same. You don't view the animals who perpetrated 9/11 as any different from the moderate Muslims trying to provide the same opportunities for their children as Christians and Jews.

43 theheat  Sun, Aug 22, 2010 3:55:15pm

Why don't all the concerned citizens ask Bush and Clinton how much Saudi money was contributed to their presidential library legacies?


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