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1 freetoken  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:47:23am

Oh c'mon Ludwig... you've yet to prove to me that you exist!

Heck, I'm not sure I exist.

QED, existence is an illusion, and thus science is illusory.

2 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:56:58am

re: #1 freetoken

Oh c'mon Ludwig... you've yet to prove to me that you exist!

Heck, I'm not sure I exist.

QED, existence is an illusion, and thus science is illusory.

Nice to see you got the whole point. Either settled science is as real as it gets, or nothing in the physical world is.

3 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:28:02pm

Good start. Will there be a short side-bar attached on the scientific definitions of model, theory, etc. along with the basics of the scientific process?

Water under the bridge for a lot of folks, but it generally doesn't hurt as a ways to make the context of various statements clear.

4 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:38:12pm

re: #3 oaktree

Good start. Will there be a short side-bar attached on the scientific definitions of model, theory, etc. along with the basics of the scientific process?

Water under the bridge for a lot of folks, but it generally doesn't hurt as a ways to make the context of various statements clear.

I am going to post my next one on how the scientific method works I think.

I want to lay a good foundation. Even for those for whom it is water under the bridge, giving some good examples helps refine the argument.

5 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 4:44:30pm

I've been wanting to know for the longest time what the heck that Large Hadron Collider thing is and why it's such a big deal, but I guess I'll have to wait till we get past the beginner's stage before I can even begin to understand such a thing.

Thanks for taking the time to write these articles, Ludwig—very interesting! Maybe you could also recommend some good books for us newbies/non-scientists.

6 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 4:47:41pm

re: #5 CuriousLurker

I've been wanting to know for the longest time what the heck that Large Hadron Collider thing is and why it's such a big deal, but I guess I'll have to wait till we get past the beginner's stage before I can even begin to understand such a thing.

Have you seen this? It may be all you need on the LHC, or at least a starting place.

7 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 4:54:31pm

re: #6 wrenchwench

Thanks! I'll take a look. I tried reading some articles on it, but they made my brain hurt. ;o)

8 b_Snark  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 5:00:09pm

Another good post LVQ.

9 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 6:20:41pm

re: #5 CuriousLurker

I've been wanting to know for the longest time what the heck that Large Hadron Collider thing is and why it's such a big deal, but I guess I'll have to wait till we get past the beginner's stage before I can even begin to understand such a thing.

Thanks for taking the time to write these articles, Ludwig—very interesting! Maybe you could also recommend some good books for us newbies/non-scientists.

The Large Hadron Collider is an an upgrade to the CERN accelerator ring, that will allow the experimenters to get to much higher energies. It will collide protons and anti-protons in the TeV energy scale. Protons and anti Protons are examples of Hadrons, which are particles made of three quarks.

What makes this such a big deal are the energy densities achievable at impact of the two beams.

At those high energies it is possible to create exotic particles. In this case, one of the major things that is being searched for are things called super symmetric partners.

10 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 6:21:19pm

re: #5 CuriousLurker

I've been wanting to know for the longest time what the heck that Large Hadron Collider thing is and why it's such a big deal, but I guess I'll have to wait till we get past the beginner's stage before I can even begin to understand such a thing.

Thanks for taking the time to write these articles, Ludwig—very interesting! Maybe you could also recommend some good books for us newbies/non-scientists.

If you tell me some more of what you might be interested in more specifically, I can make, all sorts of recommendations.

11 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 6:21:30pm

re: #8 b_sharp

Another good post LVQ.

Thank you so much.

12 b_Snark  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 6:29:45pm

re: #11 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you so much.

Everywhere I look I see scientists pushing back against the anti-intellectual, anti-science conservative bullshit. That makes me feel a whole lot less stressed about where the US and Canada are heading.

I do what I can on blogs and talk-radio, but I'm not a scientist, I don't have the knowledge or the credentials to make a larger impact. The voices of you and your colleagues are needed and appreciated.

13 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:40:16pm

re: #9 LudwigVanQuixote

The Large Hadron Collider is...

*WHOOSH* Did you hear that? That was the sound of your explanation flyin right over my head. Thanks for trying though.

re: #10 LudwigVanQuixote

If you tell me some more of what you might be interested in more specifically, I can make, all sorts of recommendations.

Maybe something that covers the basics of physics, chemistry and geophysics? Biology & astronomy are great too—anything really. My interests are pretty wide, I just have a hard time finding science books that are engaging.

I just recently got a book called Visual Intelligence and it's super-interesting, especially in relation to the graphic design work I do (and also in a kind of existential/philosophical sense, like "If pretty much we perceive are just a construct of our human brains/biology, then...?)

I already have to read a bunch much technical stuff related to web development, so I need something enjoyable. I get lots info from Nat Geo, the Smithsonian Magazine, and I have all the BBC "Planet Earth" and "Blue Planet" DVDs, but it's not the same as reading. I want to understand how it all fits together, y'know?

LOL, okay that's a pretty tall order, isn't it? Sorry! *sheepish grin*

14 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:51:39pm

re: #12 b_sharp

Everywhere I look I see scientists pushing back against the anti-intellectual, anti-science conservative bullshit.

Yes, but they are they having any real success? :( Teh StoopidTM seems to go 'round the world a thousand times before The Smart has a chance to even put on its boots...

15 b_Snark  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:59:56pm

re: #14 publicityStunted

Yes, but they are they having any real success? :( Teh StoopidTM seems to go 'round the world a thousand times before The Smart has a chance to even put on its boots...

If a person's mind is set on believing misinformation, if it becomes internalized as part of their belief system, giving them corrected information does the opposite of what is desired, they become even more entrenched in their misinformation. However, if someone is on the fence, and they do not equate the misinformation with their world view, the corrections can become internalized, especially if the information is from an authority.

So, yes, scientists are being successful in convincing those still not invested in the misinformation.

16 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:02:50pm

re: #13 CuriousLurker

*WHOOSH* Did you hear that? That was the sound of your explanation flyin right over my head. Thanks for trying though.

re: #10 LudwigVanQuixote

Maybe something that covers the basics of physics, chemistry and geophysics? Biology & astronomy are great too—anything really. My interests are pretty wide, I just have a hard time finding science books that are engaging.

I just recently got a book called Visual Intelligence and it's super-interesting, especially in relation to the graphic design work I do (and also in a kind of existential/philosophical sense, like "If pretty much we perceive are just a construct of our human brains/biology, then...?)

I already have to read a bunch much technical stuff related to web development, so I need something enjoyable. I get lots info from Nat Geo, the Smithsonian Magazine, and I have all the BBC "Planet Earth" and "Blue Planet" DVDs, but it's not the same as reading. I want to understand how it all fits together, y'know?

LOL, okay that's a pretty tall order, isn't it? Sorry! *sheepish grin*

Actually pretty easy to fit.

Get your hands on Cosmos by Carl Sagan. There is also a fantastic series of the same name.

It came out around 30 years ago... However, what is in it, is still quite accurate. You can watch the episodes online.

What Cosmos did, more than anything else I have ever seen is show a feel for the love and wonder of science and the interconnectedness of the scientific disciplines. It covers a bit of astronomy, physics, planetology, cognitive science, mathematics, genetics, evolution and chemistry. It also has a great deal of history and the development of ideas in it.

All in all, I could not think of a better - get into science and enjoy the ride book. I can also say that as a boy, when I watched that series and read that book, I knew what my career must be. In many ways, Carl Sagan was my first Rav. Since he was something of an atheist, I am sure he would find that amusing.

17 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:03:32pm

re: #14 publicityStunted

Yes, but they are they having any real success? :( Teh StoopidTM seems to go 'round the world a thousand times before The Smart has a chance to even put on its boots...

So sad and so true. The smart has PBS behind it, and teh stupid has Fox.

18 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:04:17pm

re: #15 b_sharp

If a person's mind is set on believing misinformation, if it becomes internalized as part of their belief system, giving them corrected information does the opposite of what is desired, they become even more entrenched in their misinformation. However, if someone is on the fence, and they do not equate the misinformation with their world view, the corrections can become internalized, especially if the information is from an authority.

So, yes, scientists are being successful in convincing those still not invested in the misinformation.

We are certainly trying. In the case of AGW, our civilization's survival, everyone's life depends on it.

19 b_Snark  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:20:12pm

LVQ, have you seen this?

20 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 8:27:23pm

re: #16 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually pretty easy to fit.

Get your hands on Cosmos by Carl Sagan. There is also a fantastic series of the same name.

It came out around 30 years ago... However, what is in it, is still quite accurate. You can watch the episodes online.

What Cosmos did, more than anything else I have ever seen is show a feel for the love and wonder of science and the interconnectedness of the scientific disciplines. It covers a bit of astronomy, physics, planetology, cognitive science, mathematics, genetics, evolution and chemistry. It also has a great deal of history and the development of ideas in it.

All in all, I could not think of a better - get into science and enjoy the ride book. I can also say that as a boy, when I watched that series and read that book, I knew what my career must be. In many ways, Carl Sagan was my first Rav. Since he was something of an atheist, I am sure he would find that amusing.

I always wondered about Cosmos, but never got around to buying it. Now I'll make a point of it. As a matter of fact, I see the whole video series is available for instant viewing on Netflix, so I guess I'll order the book and start watching the videos while I'm waiting. I love well done documentaries, but I retain info a lot better if I read it, y'know?

Thanks a bunch for the recommendation!

21 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:12:41pm

re: #19 b_sharp

LVQ, have you seen this?

It is certainly true that for a brief while, Canada is a climate winner.

Of course the US is unlikely to just sit here and buy Canadian water when things start to dry up badly. The US on the whole is a massive climate loser. Mexico gets decimated.

And by 2100 at the present rate, Canada will have all sorts of problems of its own.

22 Interesting Times  Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:40:26am

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

Of course the US is unlikely to just sit here and buy Canadian water when things start to dry up badly.

That's why I thought the column was utterly moronic - did the writer seriously think that a natural resource-rich but weapons-poor country like Canada could get by such a scenario without being invaded or taken over in some way? I'm 99% sure this would happen if the US water supply were to collapse.

By the way, did you see any of the articles I refer to in this page? Bad news for the US, of course, but could it have a positive impact on the overall AGW issue?


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