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1 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:56:31pm

That was in ancient times before the oil companies changed the politicians' minds. In the context of the times, Americans were pissed about OPEC's oil embargo and the resulting energy crisis. Prices skyrocketed, there were shortages and long lines for fuel.

Did you know that teabagger Eric Odom was receiving Koch money during the time he was running stalker troll blogs? Twajie used to stalk Olbermann for Odom.
The Tampa Twit is really upset with me for some unknown reason. He seems equally riled by Ice and Jimmah. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that our presence last night kept the stalker trolls away?


He is claiming that I am a convicted pedophile who rapes young girls. Since it isn't true and he doesn't know who I am, once again he has managed to come off looking like a 5th grader.
I am working on writing an end to the Tampa Twits tale. It is a complicated convoluted story, my playing of twajie was a work of art. Perhaps you could play a part in his new year surprise?
Ice and Jimmah are lending a hand. It also would be nice if our mutual pet could play a role.

2 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:58:15pm

So what you're saying in otherwords Ludwig is that Reagan was a RINO and progressive :). Heh just joking around. As someone not well versed in science issues, I find this very interesting since Reagan is the guy all these candidates claim to be the heir to. I'll say this much about Reagan at least he was practical minded rather than an ideological hothead like Palin and the otehrs who claim his legacy.

3 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:16:39pm

re: #2 HappyWarrior

So what you're saying in otherwords Ludwig is that Reagan was a RINO and progressive :). Heh just joking around. As someone not well versed in science issues, I find this very interesting since Reagan is the guy all these candidates claim to be the heir to. I'll say this much about Reagan at least he was practical minded rather than an ideological hothead like Palin and the otehrs who claim his legacy.

That is sort of the point - or at least one of them.

The biggest point, which I don't want to get lost, is that 60 years ago it was clear to many scientists it was a problem. By 50 years ago the President had been alerted. 20-30 years ago the data was good enough that people like Reagan, Bush and Thatcher weren't arguing with it.

The science now is utterly iron clad.

Perhaps 40 years ago there was still some room for legitimate debate abut this becoming a major problem - and then only some room. Once Milankovitch cycles were understood in the Seventies and ice core and proxy data combined with Keeling curves, the debate of if it was happening or not and if we were causing it, really began to close.

There was perhaps some room for calling for more research in the 80s. By the time James Hansen first testified to Congress in the 80s, there was really not any major doubt left as to the basic science.

As of now, the only people who deny it are paid propagandists for corporate interests, their hacks, their pet politicians and of course the deluded masses who believe those lies and think that this is somehow a Democratic issue only.

4 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:24:42pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

If the Democrats were savvy, they would play off the anger at Washington and start a grass roots movement to counter the tea party movement. Clean up Washington and purge it of lobbyist and their corporate money.

I bet that could be sold to the unwashed masses.

5 freetoken  Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:45:51pm

Don't you realize, Ludwig, that those leaders were all deceived by those tricksy scientists?

6 theheat  Wed, Nov 3, 2010 8:45:16pm

re: #4 Reginald Perrin

I posted on another thread that after the election yesterday I felt compelled to get involved with the local Dems, because they're so seriously and universally gutless about attacking the lies and outright bullshit from the GOP and teabaggers. You just gave me an idea.

7 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 7:15:41am

re: #6 theheat

I posted on another thread that after the election yesterday I felt compelled to get involved with the local Dems, because they're so seriously and universally gutless about attacking the lies and outright bullshit from the GOP and teabaggers. You just gave me an idea.

I am thrilled to hear that.

In a place where there are no men, strive to be a man.

8 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 7:19:09am

re: #5 freetoken

Don't you realize, Ludwig, that those leaders were all deceived by those tricksy scientists?

Yeah we evil scientists used all of that direct observation of the physical world, logic, hard data, and mathematics on them.... Evil I tells you!

9 Interesting Times  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 7:19:28am

re: #7 LudwigVanQuixote

I am thrilled to hear that.

In a place where there are no men, strive to be a man.

...which might be just a tad difficult given theheat is a woman ;) I do get your point, however.

On another note, you knew he'd be back, conveniently waiting for that Page to drop off the Featured list before squeezing out his requisite post-turd...

10 Jadespring  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 7:28:40am

re: #9 publicityStunted

...which might be just a tad difficult given theheat is a woman ;) I do get your point, however.

On another note, you knew he'd be back, conveniently waiting for that Page to drop off the Featured list before squeezing out his requisite post-turd...

You know it really bad or you would think that some people would consider it bad when the 11 year olds I worked with the other day could out talk some of these putzes on the 'science' aspect. I was readily impressed with what I heard. They could actually explain it in a sensible and scientific way.

11 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 8:03:40am

re: #9 publicityStunted

...which might be just a tad difficult given theheat is a woman ;) I do get your point, however.

On another note, you knew he'd be back, conveniently waiting for that Page to drop off the Featured list before squeezing out his requisite post-turd...

Note to theheat:

When Hillel in Avot, tells us, "In a place where there are no men, strive to be a man" the context is of how the word is used is genderless.

It is used here the same way that in Yiddish the word mensch (which also literally means man) is used. When your mother tells you to be a mensch, she doesn't mean something like "express a y chromosome."

In Hebrew, eish (man) or in Yiddish mensch (man) means to have the qualities of leadership, righteousness, honesty, dependability and virtue that would distinguish a man from an animal. In other words those things that make a human being, man in the sense of mankind, worthy and reflect what man was created to do.

12 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 8:06:13am

PIMF:

Note to theheat:

When Hillel in Avot, tells us, "In a place where there are no men, strive to be a man" the context of how the word is used is genderless.

It is used here in the same way the Yiddish word mensch (which also literally means man) is used. When your mother tells you to "be a mensch!" she doesn't mean something like "express a y chromosome."

In Hebrew, eish (man) or in Yiddish, mensch (man) means, in this context, to have the qualities of leadership, moral strength, righteousness, honesty, dependability and virtue that would distinguish a man from an animal. In other words, those things that make a human being, man in the sense of mankind, worthy and reflect what man was created to do.

13 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 8:07:12am

re: #9 publicityStunted

As to that one... I suppose that dogged persistence is some sort of a virtue... Tics don't let go either!

14 lostlakehiker  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 8:46:55am

Not coincidentally, Reagan, Thatcher, and GHWBush were central players in the end of the cold war. Reagan, for his immortal speech "Tear Down This Wall", and for military firmness, Thatcher, for keeping Europe on board and for proving, in the Falklands, that Britain too still had the same stuff she had under Churchill, and finally, Bush, for his self-effacing determination not to crow or push for more during the implosion of the Soviet Union, but rather to act in such a way as to make it unmistakably clear that the U.S. was no national-security menace to Russia. His unilateral, major reduction in the U.S. nuclear arsenal, as the opening gambit in an arms reduction negotiation, was brilliant.

Men and women of this caliber are made of the same stuff through and through. They face reality head on. And they don't reflexively lie. (Never lying is not an option when you're in the statecraft game.)

This, oh conservative friends, ye who have gone astray on the topic of AGW, is who led us in our greatest hour. These our heroes understood and granted the reality of AGW, back when it wasn't so brutally, searingly, painfully, killingly obvious as it is now.

Churchill wrote, of war but the metaphor is apt, that Britain could have made its stand when it would have been easy. Or when it would have been feasible without shocking sacrifice. [Where we are now]. Having delayed too long, she must bear a rending struggle with outcome dubious [where we'll be in 10, 20, 30 years---the science of how bad it gets how fast is not nailed down sufficiently to say exactly]. Or, Churchill wrote, if action be delayed too long, the fight may have to be conducted against hopeless odds. [Where we'll be, stuck with a climate that trims billions from the carrying capacity of the earth, if we wait 30, or 20, or 10 years too many.]

Right now, we can build the new infrastructure that will get us out of this fix. It'd be up and running in 20 years, with major parts of it up and running much sooner. The cost would be quite bearable; electricity some 10-20-30 percent more expensive than it would otherwise have seemed, [in reality, and counting the negative climate consequences, mining deaths, strip mining consequences to Appalachia, etc, less expensive].

This should have been the priority of the Bush years. It should have been Obama's first priority. It can still be something we do, because even Republicans must see the national security implications of letting things drift. The armed forces are already putting together case studies and contingency plans for the wars that will attend unmitigated AGW.

15 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 8:55:55am

re: #14 lostlakehiker

Beautiful post. You are much more forgiving of those three than I am, however, it's not worth quibbling that - because it would only detract from the main point.

Science and scientific facts should never be matters of politics. The Universe is.

The Universe does not care if it is popular, and the laws of nature do not bend to a vote.

It takes a special arrogance and utterly depraved greed on the part of the current GOP to lie about well established science so completely, when the consequences for everyone are so dire.


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