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1 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 10:02:52pm

As I've said several times on this site, I think it was a bigoted comment.

You, I suspect, do not.

So what you're actually upset about is the idea that the liberalz are letting him get away with this, when they'd be calling for his PUNISHMENT if he'd said it on Fox.

Dude. If he'd said it on Fox, no one would have noticed.

And you would be defending him.

So either give me a petition to sign, and I will, or get over it.

2 Michael Orion Powell  Thu, Nov 4, 2010 11:48:24pm

This was an insanely bigoted comment. Maher has been right in criticizing Islamic fundamentalism but has often tried to equate it with Christian fundamentalism. Well, is he worried about kids named Christopher? Why not?

3 kreyagg  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 12:07:38am

There is no such thing as a 'Muslim" race, just like there's no such thing as a "Christian" race.

There is no question that the spread of any religion is a bad thing, especially religions like Islam and Christianity whose most faithful adherents believe their holy books are more important than common decency and basic human rights.

At least switching the argument from "Is it racist?" to "Is it bigoted?"

I would think that we would all be relieved, to a degree anyway, if we learned that Jainism was spreading like wildfire in Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan. It's really OK to recognize that Islam is probably the most dangerous of the religions.

4 kreyagg  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 12:16:15am

i meant to say:
At least switching the argument from "Is it racist?" to "Is it bigoted?" makes more sense.

5 Michael Orion Powell  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 12:30:30am

re: #4 kreyagg

i meant to say:
At least switching the argument from "Is it racist?" to "Is it bigoted?" makes more sense.

I agree with that. Unfortunately, Americans are so intoxicated by their racial history that they can't fully comprehend Islam or its history. The Right is phobic of it just as it is all outside groups of non-WASPs and the Left has apparently accepted Islam as "people of color" and put them all within a multicultural blanket that the most religious Muslims don't respect. It's a mess.

6 CuriousLurker  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 1:58:55am

re: #3 kreyagg

There is no question that the spread of any religion is a bad thing, especially religions like Islam and Christianity whose most faithful adherents believe their holy books are more important than common decency and basic human rights.

Really? I consider myself a faithful adherent to Islam and I doubt you'll find anyone here at LGF who claims I'm lacking in common decency or don't support human rights. I also happen to know plenty of faithful Christians who are very decent & compassionate people. Ditto for Jews, Hindus, agnostics, atheists, etc.

It's really OK to recognize that Islam is probably the most dangerous of the religions.

Between the broad paintbrush you're using, your assertion above, the stupid image you have as your profile pic, and your negative karma, I'd say you pretty much qualify as a bigot yourself.

7 CuriousLurker  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 2:35:14am

re: #5 OrionXP

...the Left has apparently accepted Islam as "people of color" and put them all within a multicultural blanket that the most religious Muslims don't respect.

Most religious Muslims? I like you OXP, and I think you're a pretty decent & well-meaning guy, but you're wayyyyy off base there if by "religious" you mean practicing/observant. If that's not what you meant, then kindly be more exact in your wording. How many religious and/or practicing Muslims do you know personally?

I'm a practicing Muslim woman who converted around 20 years ago—I wear hijab, pray five times a day, fast during Ramadan, etc. The main reason I moved to the NYC area over a decade ago is precisely because I'm fascinated & enchanted by the diversity here. Please don't try to stuff "most" Muslims into little convenient boxes. Our characters, individual quirks, personal preferences, and intellectual abilities are just as varied as those of any other group of human beings.

I'll leave you with a quote I've kept for over a decade. It's from a 1999 article in the NY Times Magazine about women, however the words apply to any group of people:

Oddly enough, the first presumption your mind must demolish is that women lack the latitude of individuality of men. This is not the less difficult for being so obvious. I suspect that the source of so much feminine anguish in political and social terms is the same for anyone who is purposefully misunderstood. From birth to death someone is always yelling a name in your face that is not your own.

—Jim Harrison, "First Person Female"

8 kreyagg  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 2:49:16am

re: #6 CuriousLurker

Really? I consider myself a faithful adherent to Islam and I doubt you'll find anyone here at LGF who claims I'm lacking in common decency or don't support human rights. I also happen to know plenty of faithful Christians who are very decent & compassionate people. Ditto for Jews, Hindus, agnostics, atheists, etc.

According to your holy books what should be done with with a muslim who turns away from Islam? If you choose to ignore the fact the the punishment for apostasy in Islam is death, then you are not adhering to your religion.

9 kreyagg  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 3:19:40am

re: #6 CuriousLurker

...I also happen to know plenty of faithful Christians who are very decent & compassionate people. Ditto for Jews, Hindus, agnostics, atheists, etc.

This is a meaningless statement. I am certain that there were very many good and compassionate Aztecs in the 15th century, that doesn't make their religion any less gruesome.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

10 CuriousLurker  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 4:49:02am

re: #8 kreyagg

According to your holy books what should be done with with a muslim who turns away from Islam? If you choose to ignore the fact the the punishment for apostasy in Islam is death, then you are not adhering to your religion.

Ah, so you've studied fiqh and are qualified to determine whether or not my aqeedah is properly aligned with the teachings of Islam and with my particular madhab, are you? Where did you study, if you don't mind me asking? JihadWatch University perhaps? Will you be issuing any fatwas this week, ya sheikh? //

re: #9 kreyagg

This is a meaningless statement. I am certain that there were very many good and compassionate Aztecs in the 15th century, that doesn't make their religion any less gruesome.

Meaningless? Are you asserting that Aztec practices would have been less gruesome if they'd been atheists? If so, I trust you'll have the necessary data to back that up.

Never mind. I can see from your tweets that you have issues with religion, so I'm not going to hold out any hope of having a civil discussion with you about it.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I also happen to be half Mexican and well informed about Aztec history & culture, but, hey, who cares about complexity or nuance when you've got an anti-religion bat to bash people with?

You're doing an excellent job of making insulting generalizations about large swaths of humanity and being obnoxiously dismissive this morning, yet you complain about others not having common courtesy or being concerned with human rights. Maybe you should take a good long look in the mirror before criticizing others, and then try giving your fellow human beings the benefit of the doubt once in a while. Or don't. Whatever, it's your life. I'm done.

11 kreyagg  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 5:50:23am

re: #10 CuriousLurker

I don't need to study your mythology. Just go to Saudi Arabia or Iran and declare that you are no longer muslim and see how long before a council of men who know the Koran and the Hadiths far better than you will gleefully order your execution.

If the Aztecs had been atheistic, they would not have been sacrificing people at all. Gruesome punishments for violating senseless laws, maybe but that would just make them human.

I find all religions contemptible. They soil the actions of good people and encourage the evil deeds of the wicked. If you only do good things with thoughts of some sort reward after you die you are a sad sort of person.

Did I generalize about anyone at all? No I just state over and over that religion is terrible. That has nothing do do with the people that are inflicted with whatever set of myths that they believe.

I could have said that you can easily use the Christian Bible to justify chattel slavery, and you can, would that make me guilty of insulting Croatians because they happen to be mostly Christian? No, that would be silly just like insisting that me that pointing out that human sacrifice was a feature of Pre-Colombian Mesoamerican religion is somehow generalizing about Mexicans is ridiculous.

12 CuriousLurker  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 7:27:34am

re: #11 kreyagg

I don't need to study your mythology. Just go to Saudi Arabia or Iran and declare that you are no longer muslim and see how long before a council of men who know the Koran and the Hadiths far better than you will gleefully order your execution.

Is this the part where I'm supposed to lose my temper over you calling my religion mythology and do something stupid like jump to the defense of the mullahs and wahhabis? Heh, not gonna happen. Sorry.

If the Aztecs had been atheistic, they would not have been sacrificing people at all. Gruesome punishments for violating senseless laws, maybe but that would just make them human.

I get it now: As long as gruesome punishments & killings are attributable to human nature and not humans believing in myths, then they're somehow more palatable. That makes perfect sense. //

I find all religions contemptible. They soil the actions of good people and encourage the evil deeds of the wicked. If you only do good things with thoughts of some sort reward after you die you are a sad sort of person.

Did I generalize about anyone at all? No I just state over and over that religion is terrible. That has nothing do do with the people that are inflicted with whatever set of myths that they believe.

Oh, I see, so again you're separating religions from their adherents, therefore the billions of people who follow a set of beliefs—excuse me, myths—shouldn't take offense or accuse you of generalizing when you say they are "sad" people who "believe their holy books are more important than common decency and basic human rights".

Buck, you're not one of those pathetic myth believers are you? I wonder if Ludwig, Marjorie, Alouette, SFZ, Ace, Hoosier, Irenicum, reine, and all the other myth believers here at LGF would feel insulted... Nah, it's probably just me; I'm hypersensitive like that.

You know what the best part of all this is? Your snarky contempt sounds every bit as smug & condescending as the proselytizing tone used by the door-to-door evangelists who are on a mission to save everyone with The Truth™ that will set them free.

I could have said that you can easily use the Christian Bible to justify chattel slavery, and you can, would that make me guilty of insulting Croatians because they happen to be mostly Christian? No, that would be silly just like insisting that me that pointing out that human sacrifice was a feature of Pre-Colombian Mesoamerican religion is somehow generalizing about Mexicans is ridiculous.

I never said you were generalizing about any particular ethnic group. Where did you get that from? I said you were "making insulting generalizations about large swaths of humanity", which you were. And you still are.

Anyway, I think I've had enough of this as we're clearly not going to find even a millimeter of common ground, and I'm sure we both have other things we'd enjoy doing more than carrying on this useless back & forth. Tonight I'll go to sleep all snuggled up in my warm & fuzzy myths and you can go to sleep all snuggled up in your cold hard contempt for them. How's That? Works for me. Later.

13 Buck  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 7:56:32am

re: #12 CuriousLurker

Buck, you're not one of those pathetic myth believers are you? I wonder if Ludwig, Marjorie, Alouette, SFZ, Ace, Hoosier, Irenicum, reine, and all the other myth believers here at LGF would feel insulted... Nah, it's probably just me; I'm hypersensitive like that.

Hey.... please don't confuse and mix other people comments with mine.

My point is much simpler. I consider the xenophobia that Bill expressed to be a serious racist comment (the belief that his race is superior to others). I am looking for any serious rebuke from the left.

Can you help me find Media Matters and CAIR calling for Maher's firing? If Rush had said the exact same thing, don't you think this would be a front page topic?

If it helps, I also consider the comments by kreyagg and OrionXP to be just as bad. However as they come from the left, and are "just anti religion" so I guess they don't count.

I especially love the comment from OrionXP: "The Right is phobic of it just as it is all outside groups of non-WASPs". All while the words from Bill Maher still echoing in his ears.


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