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14 comments

1 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 2:01:20pm

Would the person who disliked this post person care to discuss what he thinks is untrue?

2 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 2:10:24pm

I don't have a twitter account, nor do I intend to. Would someone who does care to re-tweet this?

3 Randy W. Weeks  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 2:21:17pm
We do not have the time for the situation to get so intolerable that even the average Fox viewing idiot is convinced. By the time that happens we will have committed to vastly worse and there will be no way to stop it.

Then there really is no hope, is there?

Thanks for fighting the good fight, Lud. I know you've changed my outlook on this subject. It's embarrassing to remember that I was in the I hate Al Gore so this can't be true camp once.

4 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 2:26:41pm

re: #3 LoneStarSpur

Then there really is no hope, is there?

Thanks for fighting the good fight, Lud. I know you've changed my outlook on this subject. It's embarrassing to remember that I was in the I hate Al Gore so this can't be true camp once.

Thank you.

There is still time to stop the worst of it if enough people get educated.

As to Al Gore, did you know that one of the first and most strong major leaders to argue for global warming action was Margaret Thatcher?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Reagan, Thatcher and Bush Sr. all got it. You and so many others were taken in by a modern smear campaign created by the oil and fossil fuel companies - pushed religiously on Fox and pimped by bought politicians of the current GOP.

5 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 2:52:10pm

Yay! Re-tweets!

6 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 3:33:40pm

I've got it.

MSNBC should follow the Fox model of hiring attractive women and having them dress in revealing clothing.

But-- suckerpunch-- they'll actually be delivering insightful, in-depth stories. While in hottubs, giving each other massages.

selling out with integrity.

7 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 5:51:58pm

Ok, LVQ, my first tweet ever to retweet this. Keep fighting the good fight.

8 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 5:53:57pm

Well done!
Here's a basic link for oil & gas for your next work of art!

[Link: geology.com...]

9 freetoken  Fri, Nov 5, 2010 11:43:14pm

Recommend reading this article published a couple of days ago:

Climate change: are you willing to take the risk?


[...]

Thus, far from being alarmist, the carefully chosen phraseology of the IPCC fails to communicate the urgency of the situation.

The IPCC’s conservatism is not confined to people’s perceptions but extends to the physical climate as well. The planet’s climate is changing more rapidly than anticipated by the IPCC: According to a recent peer-reviewed analysis by Professors Freudenburgs and Muselli of the University of California, nearly 90 per cent of all reports about new scientific findings since the IPCC’s 2007 assessment reveal global climate disruption to be worse, and progressing more rapidly, than expected.

This, then, is the crux of the matter that is too often overlooked or ignored: Uncertainty cuts both ways. Uncertainty means things could be worse, or indeed far worse, than the generally conservative assessment of the state of the climate provided by the IPCC and other bodies, such as the recent document published by the UK’s Royal Society.

[...]

I believe the Freudenbergs and Muselli paper referenced is this:

Global warming estimates, media expectations, and the asymmetry of scientific challenge

10 freetoken  Sat, Nov 6, 2010 2:25:37am

One more thing of note: during the annual meeting of the Geological Society of America, which just concluded in Denver, there was a session specifically to address misrepresentation of climate change:

T22. Exposing Myths and Misrepresentations of Climate Change and Evolution Science: Strategies and Case Studies for Geoscientists, Educators, Policy Makers, and the Press

The last presentation sounds interesting:

A GEOSCIENTIST'S PERCEPTION: UNDERSTANDING (AND CHALLENGING?) SPECIFIC CHRISTIAN RESISTANCE TO GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE

Global climate change is often portrayed as a controversial topic not because of the scientific data that supports it, but because of the public perception of its ambiguity. Recent surveys have revealed that despite agreement among scientists that global warming is occurring; only a minority of those surveyed agrees that most scientists hold that position. Geoscientists respond with renewed commitment to teach the physical science with its data, analysis and interpretations. And they should. But despite their presenting the science clearly, many may reject or resist it and some for religious reasons.

Many branches of Christianity and their constituents accept the data that scientists are presenting. However, some Christians of a more fundamental orientation do not. This is because they regard time according to separate dispensations established within the Bible. Within this view, the creation is now within the sixth, or premillennial dispensation, which precedes the return of Christ that will usher in 1000 years of peace before time’s end. Taking certain Biblical passages literally, there will necessarily be climatic chaos and grave discomfort as the end approaches.

But for any Christian, even those who understand and seek to mitigate global climate change, tension exists because of the very structure of the faith. Any believer who affirms some version of divine providence espoused within the Bible and the tradition takes seriously the claim that God is the primary agent within creation, history and any natural law. Would God then allow something to happen that could make the earth uninhabitable for humans?

While there are a variety of more recent understandings of divine providence among Christian theologians that wrestle creatively with these questions and while other theologians create a context for the findings of science, most do not know this. It is important not to use up valuable classroom time needed to present the science but geoscience educators would benefit in understanding all of these positions to help lessen resistance to the essential science.

Sounds like a nice idea... but I doubt that anything a geoscience teach can do will "lessen resistance" as found in many of their most religious students.

11 jc717  Sat, Nov 6, 2010 9:05:18am

The only counter point I can offer is that we can't predict technology trends out more than a few years, and necessity really is the mother of invention.

Yes, AGW is very real; the science is settled. That doesn't mean that we won't be able to deal with it in the future.

Doomsday predictions, even ones based on solid reasoning, have a very poor historical track record.
People were predicting death from starvation if population levels reached a billion. Well, they were right given the agriculture tech of the time.

Yet, there are not over 6B of us, and for most of the civilized world, obesity is a larger problem than starvation.

Maybe I'm being a bit naive, but I think that we can engineer ourselves out of this problem more easily then we can convince the world to give up on fossil fuel and shale.

12 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Nov 6, 2010 5:12:19pm

re: #11 jc717

The only counter point I can offer is that we can't predict technology trends out more than a few years, and necessity really is the mother of invention.

This is one of America's greatest strengths becoming a terrible weakness. Americans believe there is always a second chance, a thrid chance an Nth chance. We can always fix it we believe. Unfortunately, in the real world, in all too many cases this simply is not so.

Take for instance, G-d forbid, someone gets shot in the head with a powerful rifle. Their brains will splatter and they will die. There is no medical technology that will make them better. There is no conceivable medical technology that will make them better.

Yes, AGW is very real; the science is settled. That doesn't mean that we won't be able to deal with it in the future.

This is a very false optimism. The way to deal with it is to prevent it from happening. In the real world, plants need a certain temoperaature and a certain amount of water to grow and grow in enough quantity to support the population. Where the climate is heading will not allow that and much like the headshot analogy - even with all the advances we have made, there is no conceivable fix with present or even presently contemplated technology that will work.

Doomsday predictions, even ones based on solid reasoning, have a very poor historical track record.

The people who called the Second World War coming down the pike were dead on. This is also false optimism. As another example, surely you agree that an all out nuclear exchange would destroy our civilization and kill billions. If that happens, G-d forbid, the world as we know it, from a civilization perspective ends. It is the same case with AGW - only rather than something that could happen, it is happening right now, and rather than taking hours to finish will take decades to become intolerable and continue as a process for millenia.

People were predicting death from starvation if population levels reached a billion. Well, they were right given the agriculture tech of the time.

And we have reached the basic limits of that. There are now 6 billion on the world and growing.

Yet, there are not over 6B of us, and for most of the civilized world, obesity is a larger problem than starvation.

There are over 6 billion I believe, but the prosperity that America currently enjoys is threatened by this and it will not endure if we do not change course. That is part of the settled science. What you are talking about just means that no one will feel sorry for us when we starve, having been such gluttons in the past.

Maybe I'm being a bit naive, but I think that we can engineer ourselves out of this problem more easily then we can convince the world to give up on fossil fuel and shale.

Please read the papers in this link. Take your time. There are so many overlapping and reinforcing effects that you really are being naive.

Consider that to engineer ourselves out, on the scales you are talking about - even if technologically feasible - which it is not - would require a thriving economy. However, the basis of any economy is food and water. Without those, you have nothing. Those are two of the first things hit. So you would be fighting a spiral with ever less of an economy to do so. Best to prevent it while we can.

13 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Nov 6, 2010 5:13:26pm

re: #7 wlewisiii

Ok, LVQ, my first tweet ever to retweet this. Keep fighting the good fight.

Thank you so much!

14 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Nov 6, 2010 5:13:43pm

re: #8 Floral Giraffe

Well done!
Here's a basic link for oil & gas for your next work of art!

[Link: geology.com...]

Thank you too!


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