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1 researchok  Sun, Nov 7, 2010 6:36:08am

How we got here:

I think that this is the first war in history that on the morrow the victors sued for peace and the vanquished called for unconditional surrender.

-Abba Eban

2 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Sun, Nov 7, 2010 6:43:56am

With all due respect, why did you chose this topic to condemn Obama? Practically every Prof. Barry Rubin article posted here in the last two years makes a strong case of consistent bungling and misunderstanding of not just the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but of the entire middle east.

3 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 7, 2010 6:47:49am

This is an utterly stupid idea. It would gain no peace since the Palestinians would promptly find some new reason to attack. There's not even a point to these negotiations until they are actually willing t talk about a real peace.

4 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Nov 7, 2010 6:48:32am

Fortunately the Palestinians will reject this compromise just like they reject every other compromise.

5 researchok  Sun, Nov 7, 2010 7:02:13am

re: #2 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey

With all due respect, why did you chose this topic to condemn Obama? Practically every Prof. Barry Rubin article posted here in the last two years makes a strong case of consistent bungling and misunderstanding of not just the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but of the entire middle east.

I can't say for certain, but in fairness. LVQ's remarks are more pointed, specifically pointing out Obama's possible involvement (read:actually consideration) and agreement. This is germane because the influence the US wields over Israel is substantial among other reasons (J Street influence for example)

Professor Rubin comments are for the most part direct at/about the regional players. It is true he comments often on US positions, but he talking about a great deal of distance between his opinions and what may or may not reflect possible US Mid East policies. It is for that reason Prof Rubin's conclusions are often a point of contention. Those conclusions are very much conjecture.

On a personal note, I agree with much of what Rubin has to say. I only wish he were less inflammatory. He doesn't need to to do that. He's got some very smart readers who can draw their own conclusions.

An Israeli professor ought not write like a political pundit- or his Arab counterparts.

6 Charles Johnson  Sun, Nov 7, 2010 8:53:44am

I do not believe this story. It's going to turn out to be another distortion. The far right sources should be a giveaway to anyone who's been paying attention.

They do not deserve your trust, and any outrageous outrage they promote should be disbelieved by default. It's up to them to prove this crap. I'm not taking it at face value ever again. They've lied too much.

7 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sun, Nov 7, 2010 9:40:34am

re: #6 Charles

I do not believe this story. It's going to turn out to be another distortion. The far right sources should be a giveaway to anyone who's been paying attention.

They do not deserve your trust, and any outrageous outrage they promote should be disbelieved by default. It's up to them to prove this crap. I'm not taking it at face value ever again. They've lied too much.

If not for the first Jpost article, I would not have given this a second thought. I don't think I could have been more clear that I doubt this is accurate.

I certainly pray it isn't.

8 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Sun, Nov 7, 2010 1:28:26pm

re: #6 Charles

Charles, I beg to differ and do believe this story. Here are two articles I found that are not from the right wing:

Israeli officials speak of ‘phased’ Jordan Valley presence

Israel's presence in the Jordan Valley under a peace agreement would be "phased," Israel's U.S. ambassador told an audience of Muslim and Arab Americans. [...]

The Obama administration has raised the issue of backing a phased Israeli presence in the Jordan Valley as part of an incentives package to get Netanyahu to revive a partial settlement freeze in the West Bank.

Israeli presence in Jordan valley could be flexible

Israel's insistence on maintaining a presence on the eastern border of a future Palestinian state could be reviewed over time, a government spokesman said Wednesday.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the Israeli administration came up with this idea, rather than it being some kind of Obama plan.

9 Charles Johnson  Sun, Nov 7, 2010 1:29:50pm

re: #8 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the Israeli administration came up with this idea, rather than it being some kind of Obama plan.

This I could believe. But without better sourcing I'm not putting any credence in the story that the Obama administration is pushing this on Israel.

10 Bob Levin  Sun, Nov 7, 2010 1:49:36pm

Obviously, I scour the most high profile Israeli papers every day. Reporting rumors is a constant. Even if the rumors come from high profile sources, you can never tell whether the rumor is about something real, or it's just there to shake up the psychology, get some kind of political movement, move talks in a different direction.

Sometimes I will link to one of these rumors, such as Israel backing away from territory in the North, expected to be announced by Netenyahu at the UN. But this makes sense in the present situation of negotiations, seeing if there is a reciprocal response from the PA, seeing if there is any kind of shifting in position from Europe. If there is no change, then Israel simply says--the other side is not negotiating in good faith, again.

Of course, it could turn out that even this rumor is just more smoke.

The issue of rumors is also why I no longer read Debka.

11 eretz  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 10:09:07pm

Thanks for citing my work. In regard to Mr. C.E. Monkey, I would say that I don't think my writing is inflammatory--which implies stirring up violence in some wild-eyed way--and am not sure that doing sharp political analysis should be beyond the duty of a professor. My work is based on more than 30 years' experience in dealing with Middle East issues. As for "speculative," I'd mention that my sources in the U.S. government and policymaking/opinionmaking circles are pretty strong and everything I write is documented by quoted material as well as interviews. Anyone interested in seeing my writing is welcome to visit [Link: www.rubinreports.blogspot.com...] or to read my books which have been published by the university presses of Harvard, Yale, Oxford, and Cambridge among other publishers. (Sorry for that last bit which is put in for credibility, not snobbishness.) PS: And yes that whole rumor about leasing, etc., was nonsense from the beginning. That's why it is important for professionals to engage people on blogs and other new media outlets nowadays.


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