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1 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 7:42:06am

Not that anyone here would be fooled by Duke, but there is no such quote in the Talmud.

2 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 7:46:17am

I've never understood the inter-religious insults as a pro-hate argument. Yeah, religions believe in different, often opposite things. That's why they're different religions. So if Talmud disses Jesus, or some Christian book disses Mohammed - what is it to anyone?

3 The Left  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 7:51:42am

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote

Not that anyone here would be fooled by Duke, but there is no such quote in the Talmud.

Of course not. I was going to say something about Duke's 'sources' being copies of Der Sturmer.

How old is that particular libel? Jewish men as seducers/destroyers of the flower of our wimmen? Do you know its origins? I know Streicher had this whole pornographic fixation down to a science but I don't know how old it is or when or where it originated. It must be older than that, surely?

(Seems to me that it's a natural fixation for white supremacists to have as well-- similar libels were and are circulated about black men esp in post civil war south to justify the KKK, etc. It seems like a narrative template that is ready and waiting to be filled in; I'm wondering why that is.)

4 The Left  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 7:53:51am

re: #2 Sergey Romanov

I've never understood the inter-religious insults as a pro-hate argument. Yeah, religions believe in different, often opposite things. That's why they're different religions. So if Talmud disses Jesus, or some Christian book disses Mohammed - what is it to anyone?

I've always suspected that's due to insecurity. (in one's own faith)

5 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 8:51:58am

Because when I think "Sexual revolution," I think "Jews".

Not that Jewish culture doesn't have a pretty healthy attitude towards sex, at least compared to mainstream Christianity, but still, this is a new one to me.

6 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 8:54:57am

re: #3 iceweasel

Of course not. I was going to say something about Duke's 'sources' being copies of Der Sturmer.

How old is that particular libel? Jewish men as seducers/destroyers of the flower of our wimmen? Do you know its origins? I know Streicher had this whole pornographic fixation down to a science but I don't know how old it is or when or where it originated. It must be older than that, surely?

(Seems to me that it's a natural fixation for white supremacists to have as well-- similar libels were and are circulated about black men esp in post civil war south to justify the KKK, etc. It seems like a narrative template that is ready and waiting to be filled in; I'm wondering why that is.)

Well, when you take into account guys like Hugh Hefner, what can I say? We get a lot of play, and others are jealous. OK that was half of a joke.

Curiously enough, the idea of Jews being rampaging forces to steal your wimmins, is one of the few things we aren't particularly accused of to my knowledge. Now that I said that, someone who knows more history than me will point out 50 horrible examples, but truly that is one I haven't heard.
Strong Jewish injunctions not to intermarry in the past, coupled with the isolation of Jewish communities did little for many previous generations of Jews to "get out there." Converts not withstanding, intermarriage like we see in America, is a relatively new thing.

But, Duke fits a pattern - of an utterly lowbrow and insecure male. The essence of any racism (of Duke's ilk, and the teabag ilk) is ultimately the deepest insecurity and fear coupled with some projection. These people want more than anything to put down members of a certain race that they feel threatened by.

In the case of Blacks and the South, it was a nagging sense that Black people really will rise up and kick their asses for being slavers and all sorts of other evils. In the case of Jews, our very existence threatens their theology - well that and, the fact that we are successful in business, industry, academics and the professional fields, and direct competition economically.

Either way, you have a scared, pissed off little man who projects, and is coming from a very base place. The most cruel thing a throwback male can do to insult the manhood of another man, is to mess with that man's woman. I wonder sometimes if feminist writers understand how much the poor woman, that these bastards fantasize about abusing, are incidental as people to the fantasy. It's a power trip, but not a power trip over the woman per-se. It's a way of telling the men of her culture, look what I did to you.

In truth, for a man, the idea of any woman he cares about treated that way, and that he did not stop it, is an utter horror. His inability to protect her is the ultimate slight to his manhood. This is why so many armies in the past have instituted rape as a policy. Also, the terrible historical abuse of Black slave women no doubt was largely driven by this psychology as well.

Guys like Duke, would like nothing more than to put Black men or Jewish men and whomever else, in their place by abusing their women. But guys like Duke are insecure little fucks and they assume that all other men think like them, and they are afraid of people like blacks or Jews taking over. So they assume that Black and Jewish men are going to do that to their women. It is the ultimate insult to manhood. Duke already has a lot of issues with that.

This is a sort of angry horror fiction for them that also acts as a justification for their own sick fantasies. They can, like children, claim the other would have done it too.

7 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:04:09am

re: #4 iceweasel

I've always suspected that's due to insecurity. (in one's own faith)

Well the roots of literalist Christian or Muslim anti-semitism are ultimately that.

Suppose for a moment that you believe in the G-d of Abraham and suppose you believe in Moses as a lawgiver.

Now suppose you have an addition you wish to make. You have your prophet. You say the original was missing something, or that the Jews got it wrong, or whatever, but the point is, you believe that you are essentially the "real Jews" with the "right" message.

But there is the issue that the Jews are the actual descendants of Abraham and Moses was one of them. When they look at you, and your "new take" on their religion, they say "have a nice life, we will keep to the original," it automatically becomes a question of legitimacy insecure member of the "new" set.

Here they are with this fantastic addition/re-interpretation of Judaism that draws its authority from Jewish texts, and those darn Jews aren't buying it! Why do you think that Falwell types fall over when they get a Jewish convert? It is because they think they are being validated in a way that no other convert can. They are saying - see we were right, we have legitimacy, even you (the people with the actual lineage) agree!

8 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:10:12am

re: #5 Obdicut

Because when I think "Sexual revolution," I think "Jews".

Not that Jewish culture doesn't have a pretty healthy attitude towards sex, at least compared to mainstream Christianity, but still, this is a new one to me.

That's an old one.

Here's a frame from the Nazi pseudo-documentary Der Ewige Jude (decades later repeated in the banned Soviet pseudo-documentary Skrytoye i yavnoye):

Image: frame48.jpg

[Link: www.holocaust-history.org...]

Under the cloak of ingenious or even learned discussion they meant to turn mankind's healthier instincts down degenerate paths.

9 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:16:54am

re: #5 Obdicut

Because when I think "Sexual revolution," I think "Jews".

Not that Jewish culture doesn't have a pretty healthy attitude towards sex, at least compared to mainstream Christianity, but still, this is a new one to me.

Gregory Goodwin Pincus, without whom there would be no birth control pill, was Jewish. Min Chueh Chang was his co-researcher. They shared the credit for the breakthrough, which was achieved at Pincus's research institute.

Margaret Sanger was instrumental in getting the funding for Pincus and his institute.

So in as much as the sexual revolution could not have happened without the pill, we are the cause of it :)

10 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:19:48am

re: #9 LudwigVanQuixote

Gregory Goodwin Pincus, without whom there would be no birth control pill, was Jewish. Min Chueh Chang was his co-researcher. They shared the credit for the breakthrough, which was achieved at Pincus's research institute.

Margaret Sanger was instrumental in getting the funding for Pincus and his institute.

So in as much as the sexual revolution could not have happened without the pill, we are the cause of it :)

Don't forget about the great scientist Dr. Magnus Hirschfeld, the "sexual revolution" boogeyman for the socially conservative Nazis.

11 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:21:02am

re: #10 Sergey Romanov

Oh, and Freud. Don't white supremacists think that he was some sort of sexual boogeyman too?

12 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:22:42am

re: #11 Obdicut

Oh, and Freud. Don't white supremacists think that he was some sort of sexual boogeyman too?

SPLC mentions him, so I thought it would be piling on ;D

13 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:25:58am

re: #10 Sergey Romanov

Don't forget about the great scientist Dr. Magnus Hirschfeld, the "sexual revolution" boogeyman for the socially conservative Nazis.

From your Nazi propaganda post this stood out to me:

The relativity-Jew Einstein, who concealed his hatred of Germany behind his obscure pseudo-science.

LOL

Of course the rest is pure, pure evil, as is this, but that line is goofy enough to become black humor for me.

14 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:26:47am

re: #8 Sergey Romanov

That's an old one.

Here's a frame from the Nazi pseudo-documentary Der Ewige Jude (decades later repeated in the banned Soviet pseudo-documentary Skrytoye i yavnoye):

BTW, gotta write about that some time. It's a hoot- a Soviet documentary which plagiarizes the Nazi agitprop, and even surpasses it at times, all under the mask of anti-Zionism, so abrasive that even the Soviet officials understood it's antisemitic and banned it.

15 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:29:10am

re: #13 LudwigVanQuixote

From your Nazi propaganda post this stood out to me:

LOL

Of course the rest is pure, pure evil, as is this, but that line is goofy enough to become black humor for me.

This is only comparable with this line from the Protocols:

Do not suppose for a moment that these statements are empty words: think carefully of the successes we arranged for Darwinism, Marxism, Nietzsche-ism. To us Jews, at any rate, it should be plain to see what a disintegrating importance these directives have had upon the minds of the GOYIM.
16 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:29:49am

re: #14 Sergey Romanov

BTW, gotta write about that some time. It's a hoot- a Soviet documentary which plagiarizes the Nazi agitprop, and even surpasses it at times, all under the mask of anti-Zionism, so abrasive that even the Soviet officials understood it's antisemitic and banned it.

My grandmother, a very tough old Russian lady, once joked that Hitler and Stalin started the second world war as a bet to see who could kill the most Russians.

17 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:31:28am

re: #15 Sergey Romanov

This is only comparable with this line from the Protocols:

Yes there is that too.

You just made me think of something I had never considered.

We Jews are always into science and academics. An anti-intellectual, populist movement must hate us. We are often the source of the very knowledge that they fear.

18 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:36:57am

Here's a satirical song by Vladimir Vysotsky about this kind of antisemitism:

Semi-literal translation by Boris Gendelev:

Song of an Antisemite
Russian title: Antisemity

Just being a hoodlum appears so trite
I ought to convert to an anti-Semite
This cause might not yet have the law on its side
But millions of zealots support it worldwide

One would get a thrashing if I so decide
But I need to know who is a Semite
What if they are held in the highest regard
What if for the trouble I get myself barred

But my drunkard pal with a wider worldview
Said that a Semite is just a plain Jew
Well, I am in luck, as it would appear
I am reassured there is nothing to fear

I worked up resolve, cause Albert Einstein
Was once a respected icon of mine
The people, forgive me, but I have to ask
Should Abraham Lincoln be also unmasked?

Among them, are many who suffered from Stalin
And highly respected by me Charlie Chaplin
My dear friend Rubin and victims of Nazism
And even the founding father of Marxism

But my drunkard buddy said after a job
The blood of the infants they drink, every drop
And I over drinks in a bar overheard
That they long ago crucified our Lord

Without more blood they simply can't do
They tortured an elephant right in a zoo
Against our people committed high treason
And stole all the crops of the previous season

Along major highways they grabbed all the lots
Built luxury dachas and live there like gods
I'll maim and I'll burn, just to make them pay dues
To save our country, I club dirty Jews

19 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:46:22am

re: #18 Sergey Romanov

I'll be honest. I have never understood how Russian Jews can say anything good about Russia.

Please understand that I am of Russian Jewish ancestry myself. My sister is married to a Russian (as in came to America when he was a boy, after Glasnost) Jew.

I talk to my Russian in laws and they tell me all sorts of stories about what it was like over there. These are very educated people also, medical doctors and engineers. It seems so obvious to me that the Russians hate us as much as ever.

Yet, my Russian in laws have this notion that "if it isn't Russian, it is crap." I have actually heard them say that ice-cream is better in Russia. I suggested that Ben and Jerry's would be coming out with a sawdust flavored icecream soon. Everyone laughed. Then I heard all of their stories about sawdust in food in addition to the ones I had heard before.

They tell me of a pride of being the intellectual class, that the revulsion to intellectuals was also a source of strength. I see it. I can even see it as noble, while there. I can't see ever missing the place though.

20 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:48:16am
It seems so obvious to me that the Russians hate us as much as ever.

Well, that is wrong.

21 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:50:51am

re: #20 Sergey Romanov

Well, that is wrong.

Well I am happy to hear that. I suppose I overstated. It is certainly true there are fewer pogroms. But you know better than me, do you think that basic Russian attitudes towards us have changed?

22 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 9:59:22am

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

Well I am happy to hear that. I suppose I overstated. It is certainly true there are fewer pogroms. But you know better than me, do you think that basic Russian attitudes towards us have changed?

They're certainly incomparable to the attitudes of the 19th century, so it was wrong even if for that reason. Of course, antisemitism is alive and well, as elsewhere, but in its weaker form. Ethnic Russians are more likely to dislike Caucasians (and I don't mean "the white race") and Asians than Jews. Of course there are some people who try to change that by issuing a steady stream of antisemitic books, so there are some obligatory swastikas on synagogues from time to time, but hopefully it won't have much influence. Hopefully.

23 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 10:15:22am

re: #22 Sergey Romanov

They're certainly incomparable to the attitudes of the 19th century, so it was wrong even if for that reason.

I was being a bit sarcastic with my remark. Of course, it isn't as bad as the days of the Czars, and I suppose after Babi Yar, the Ukrainians just have fewer of us to kill (again black humor and a point that I don't think these attitudes are limited to the 19th, but I do realize it is obviously different now than in the days of the Czars).

Of course, antisemitism is alive and well, as elsewhere, but in its weaker form.

Which is what? Anti-zionism? I can see how that would work. What you say rings true to me.

Ethnic Russians are more likely to dislike Caucasians (and I don't mean "the white race") and Asians than Jews.

As in Georgians. I can see that too.

Of course there are some people who try to change that by issuing a steady stream of antisemitic books, so there are some obligatory swastikas on synagogues from time to time, but hopefully it won't have much influence. Hopefully.

And I guess that is the real question. When I say I think that the Russians hate us as much as ever, I honestly think that it is all still there sub rasa waiting to come out. Right now, there are distractions with Muslims and Georgians etc... If those distractions weren't there, how long would it take? I don't know. I don't claim to know. I am however, a pessimist.

As a related question, how many Jews who maintain any sort of openly Jewish identity remain in Russia? I honestly don't know. I am wool gathering, and formulating a thought on that.

24 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 10:25:16am

re: #23 LudwigVanQuixote

Which is what? Anti-zionism? I can see how that would work. What you say rings true to me.

No, more like the usual negative stereotyping, but without much "hate", which is too strong a word for such an attitude, IMHO. (I don't count anti-Zionism as antisemitism, but that is a topic for another discussion. Moreover, anti-Zionism was a Soviet schtick, and I think most Russians don't give a damn about I-P.)

As in Georgians. I can see that too.

Well, that was a state-induced hysteria, on the everyday level it's more about the culture clash with Chechens, Dagestanis etc.

As a related question, how many Jews who maintain any sort of openly Jewish identity remain in Russia? I honestly don't know. I am wool gathering, and formulating a thought on that.

There aren't that many Jews left, though quite a lot of well-known politicians, artists, scientists, businessmen etc. are Jewish or of Jewish roots (not necessarily Jewish by religion). As to the future, if the state continues to sponsor nationalism, all kinds of xenophobic outbursts are possible.

25 CuriousLurker  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 10:34:49am

I see he's trying to align Christians & Muslims against Jews.

I just took a peek at his web site. I got a weird feeling of déjà vu—it could be Geller's site if you replaced Jews with Muslims. They both seem to hate President Obama and there were references to many of the same things (like Merkel's statement about the failure of multiculturalism). And, of course, wild conspiracy theories.

So on the one hand you've got white supremacist Muslim haters who claim to be supportive of Israel (Geller's EDL pals with Israeli flag, Rabbi Shifren), and on the other hand you have white supremacist anti-Semites who claim to be supportive of Muslims (David Duke at the Holocaust Denial Conference?)

It's such a bizarre convergence. I guess they all must be operating on "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" principle. O_o

Any Jews or Muslims who ally themselves with these neo-Nazi types are idiots. Hell, the whole lot of them are idiots. How do you manage to function when you're dragging that enormous load of seething, blind hatred around with you all the time?

26 researchok  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 10:49:33am

re: #25 CuriousLurker

I see he's trying to align Christians & Muslims against Jews.

I just took a peek at his web site. I got a weird feeling of déjà vu—it could be Geller's site if you replaced Jews with Muslims. They both seem to hate President Obama and there were references to many of the same things (like Merkel's statement about the failure of multiculturalism). And, of course, wild conspiracy theories.

So on the one hand you've got white supremacist Muslim haters who claim to be supportive of Israel (Geller's EDL pals with Israeli flag, Rabbi Shifren), and on the other hand you have white supremacist anti-Semites who claim to be supportive of Muslims (David Duke at the Holocaust Denial Conference?)

It's such a bizarre convergence. I guess they all must be operating on "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" principle. O_o

Any Jews or Muslims who ally themselves with these neo-Nazi types are idiots. Hell, the whole lot of them are idiots. How do you manage to function when you're dragging that enormous load of seething, blind hatred around with you all the time?

That has been his cause for decades.

Of course, he has made a lot of money in the process.

27 CuriousLurker  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 11:22:54am

re: #26 researchok

That has been his cause for decades.

Of course, he has made a lot of money in the process.

Yeah, I guess the money must help lighten the load. Promoting hate seems to be a lucrative business.

28 CuriousLurker  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 11:26:09am

re: #27 CuriousLurker

Yeah, I guess the money must help lighten the load. Promoting hate seems to be a lucrative business.

And if it's a lucrative business, it means someone higher up the food chain must be profiting from it as well, either financially or politically. Or maybe both. Probably both.

*wheels begin turning inside head*

29 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 11:35:35am

re: #5 Obdicut

Because when I think "Sexual revolution," I think "Jews".

LOL My thoughts exactly Obi!

Of course, this brings me to my favorite Jewish American Princess Jokes (aka J.A.P. jokes for those living in a cave).

Q: Did you hear about the new J.A.P. horror film?
A: It's called Debbie Does Dishes.

Q: Did you hear about the new J.A.P. porno film?
A: It's called Debbie Does Nothing.

Q: What's the difference between a J.A.P. and an Italian
American Princess?
A: With the Italian American Princess, the jewels are fake, and the
orgasms are real.

Q: How do you know when a J.A.P. has an orgasm?
A: She drops her nail file.

Q: What's a J.A.P.'s favorite position?
A: Facing Bloomies.

And a few funny thoughts from some of my favorite Jews.

Look at Jewish history. Unrelieved lamenting would be intolerable. So, for every ten Jews beating their breasts, G_d designated one to be crazy and amuse the breast beaters. By the time I was five I knew I was that one.
- Mel Brooks

I once wanted to become an atheist but I gave up . . . they have no holidays.
- Henny Youngman

The remarkable thing about my mother is that for 30 years she served us nothing but leftovers. The original meal has never been found.
- Calvin Trillin

30 theheat  Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:46:17pm

Nothing says Family Values better than White Power. Jesus really overshot his mark.


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