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1 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 8:02:42pm
I’m pretty much done taking Wikileaks supporters seriously. I’ve reluctantly listened to all the defenses and arguments from Assange supporters only to arrive back at my original conclusion that Wikileaks and their apologists have a few screws loose.

I’ve been absolutely baffled by it, struck speechless by some of the arguments made in favor of Wikileaks, Assange, and even the DDoS attacks on sites that decide not to do business with them.

I honestly don’t know what to say to people who think like that. Reading some of those defenses is like having a neighbor who earnestly tries to convince you that their dog reads them bedtime stories in Klingon. I just don’t know how to respond to such thinking.

2 reine.de.tout  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 8:06:33pm

With you all the way on this Killgore.

re: #1 Slumbering Behemoth

I’ve been absolutely baffled by it, struck speechless by some of the arguments made in favor of Wikileaks, Assange, and even the DDoS attacks on sites that decide not to do business with them.

I honestly don’t know what to say to people who think like that. Reading some of those defenses is like having a neighbor who earnestly tries to convince you that their dog reads them bedtime stories in Klingon. I just don’t know how to respond to such thinking.

And with you to Sleepy B.

3 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 8:10:47pm
His goal is to collapse the American government’s ability to function.

Now, who does that remind you of?

4 Buck  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 8:11:14pm

I have a theory that I have not seen anywhere else. Wikileaks is supposed to be unedited. I think Assange and his people are holding back a huge number of documents. Ones that would embarrass or contradict their world view.

Is it really possible that there is so little that relates to the PA/Hamas fight? The only stuff I can see makes the USA and Israel look like meddlers.

What about any details about Darfur, or any of the other conflicts in the world besides Afghanistan or Iraq?

Wikileaks is NOT a Wiki…

5 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 8:13:41pm

re: #4 Buck

I have a theory that I have not seen anywhere else. Wikileaks is supposed to be unedited. I think Assange and his people are holding back a huge number of documents. Ones that would embarrass or contradict their world view.

Is it really possible that there is so little that relates to the PA/Hamas fight? The only stuff I can see makes the USA and Israel look like meddlers.

What about any details about Darfur, or any of the other conflicts in the world besides Afghanistan or Iraq?

Wikileaks is NOT a Wiki…

I could see Assange doing that. He’s the kind who can’t imagine he could be wrong, and we already know his motive are impure.

6 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 8:18:29pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Now, who does that remind you of?

I thought about that too. As much as it pains me to throw Glenn Beck a bone, he’s right that there are people who want to collapse the system. Glenn Beck happens to be one of them but that’s neither here nor there.

7 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 8:26:04pm

re: #6 Killgore Trout

I thought about that too. As much as it pains me to throw Glenn Beck a bone, he’s right that there are people who want to collapse the system. Glenn Beck happens to be one of them but that’s neither here nor there.

It’s actually very much “here”. It means that Beck is the same sort of asshole as Assange: He wants things to be the way he things they should be, and he doesn’t care who he hurts to make them so.

8 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 8:29:29pm

I think that anyone, Assange or Beck, who want to tear down, the free-ist society and democracy on this planet are just f’ing nuts. Let them go TRY to find anything like the freedoms of the US anywhere else. I get that our democracy is not perfect, but show me something better.

9 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 8:37:31pm

re: #8 Floral Giraffe

I think that anyone, Assange or Beck, who want to tear down, the free-ist society and democracy on this planet are just f’ing nuts. Let them go TRY to find anything like the freedoms of the US anywhere else. I get that our democracy is not perfect, but show me something better.

Both men are proof that Perfect is the enemy of Good Enough.

[waves]

10 philosophus invidius  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 8:39:32pm

I don’t see any need to draw ACORN! SOROS! into all of this.

11 Buck  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 8:40:40pm
all leaks are essential — but some leaks are more essential than others.

VDH

12 Idle Drifter  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 8:40:56pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

It’s actually very much “here”. It means that Beck is the same sort of asshole as Assange: He wants things to be the way he things they should be, and he doesn’t care who he hurts to make them so.

Such is the folly of the philosopher kings…

13 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 8:43:08pm

re: #10 philosophus invidius

I don’t see any need to draw ACORN! SOROS! into all of this.

Nobody here is doing that. I’m not tying ACORN or Soros into this. I’m just saying that Assange’s actions resemble an attempt to create the type of crisis Cloward and Piven were talking about. That’s all I meant to do.

14 Randall Gross  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 8:59:21pm

DDOS attacks are evil, I don’t care what the cause is. There’s no justification for them that will serve. Even internet savvy people tend to think of the internet as an amorphous cloud, which is great if you talking about distributed apps, but lousy as a physical description. It’s really a series of interlinked data switches, routers, fiber connections, border gateways and firewalls. Every little node and connection is a potential capacity bottleneck for user x, y, z. Some of those users are playing games, and because the DDOS attack is slowing things down, some poor kids are getting PK’ed … no big deal right? Social justice says that’s ok for a greater cause.

However, what about the hospital whose medical telemetry and diagnostic imaging gets delayed because it happens to transit the same routers and firewalls? What about the poor schlub who can’t get his house payment through on time because the node is clogged? What about the public safety info that gets slowed? Is that Ok?

I think fucking the internet for whole regions because you have a hard on against company x, y, z is tyrannical and evil. Just because you want to have a little “I’m the Tyler Durden of these innnernetz!” complex doesn’t make it ok for you to steal unrecoverable time and moments from other people’s lives.

15 Randall Gross  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 9:00:58pm

Oh yeah, one more thing: good luck storming that castle.

16 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 9:17:40pm

re: #14 Thanos

Yeah, I was originally planing to address Anonymous in this post too but I ran out of patience.

17 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 9:39:48pm

re: #14 Thanos

None of that matters when you’re hellbent on cloaking criminal activity in the facade of “social justice”. It’s all for the greater good, man./

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Another thing I find baffling. It’s like some kind of twisted Guy Fawkes/Robin Hood adolescent fantasy.

I’ve never supported that kind of criminal behavior, even when the Co$ was the target.

18 jc717  Fri, Dec 10, 2010 11:08:29pm

I am curious to see what they have on the banks. I also wish that they would go after some juicer targets like China, Russia, or Pakistan.

19 mr.JA  Sat, Dec 11, 2010 2:45:13am

I’ll probably get shouted at, but I like wikileaks.
Am not a US-american, but from Western-Europe, and here the government is reducing one’s privacy more and more. There are CCTV cameras everywhere, we’re forced to use chip cards for public transport that will log all your movement. In holland, there will be a system to pay for the use of highways by installing a GPS in your car… Belgium decided to exchange DNA databases with the US.
With all these things, the reaction is ‘what do you have to hide?’ Now wikileaks shows that sometimes there is stuff you want to hide, even if everybody knows what is going on. Moreover, if the government can’t even hold-on to its
What I also like about mr. Assange mission, is that he wants to expose how the corporate network influences US politics, and how many political decisions are really only made to benefit those corporate networks. I guess that mr. Assange being a European, he will go after the governments here too, and hopefully expose some things here.
For the ones who call mr. Assange irresponsible, he offered the US government that they could censor the docs with information that would be dangerous - they refused. Now, they censor them themselves - I haven’t seen anything in these diplomatic cables that is dangerous - it is just a bit embarrassing.
The calls from some US politicians for his head is IMHO absolutely ludicrous, how can you charge someone for treason or espionage when s/he is not an american citizen and does not operate on american territory. Although those politicians would probably like this to be true, but AFAIK is US law only applicably to US territory…

However, I agree that on the government side of things they should be careful, and they probably haven’t always done the correct thing (by publishing names, etc) - but I’d like them to get on with stuff about the banks, corruption, russia, etc.

20 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 11, 2010 3:40:42am

Putin is a separate case here. He understands that Wikileaks may, in principle, release the materials on Russia so I don’t think the “supports” it, though he sure welcomes the latest releases. His comments about Assange are the part of his usual modus operandi. Whenever something unseemly happens in the Western democracies - things like Iraq, Gitmo, torture, etc. - Putin uses them to shield himself from criticism that he is not democratic, etc. I’ve seen him do it many times. Classic tu quoque. Which is why these things actually matter. Whenever a Western democracy steps out of bounds of legality and propriety, it gives third-world authoritarians an excuse to behave in the same way.

21 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:29:17am

re: #19 mr.JA

I guess that mr. Assange being a European, he will go after the governments here too, and hopefully expose some things here.

Is Australia a part of Europe now? I can’t keep up….

22 jaunte  Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:56:40am

re: #19 mr.JA

In following the stories about Wikileaks so far, I’ve not seen anything revealed which was specifically useful in changing the way international relations are conducted. So far, it seems their main contribution has been to excite their fans, while providing the Taliban with a list of informants to be eliminated.

23 Barrett Brown  Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:09:34am

re: #18 jc717

I am curious to see what they have on the banks. I also wish that they would go after some juicer targets like China, Russia, or Pakistan.

They have. It will take you two minutes of Googling to find that they have been doing so for quite a while. If you want facts about Wikileaks, you will not find them here.

24 laZardo  Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:54:20am

re: #21 wrenchwench

Is Australia a part of Europe now? I can’t keep up…

Well, the Queen is its head of state, so it’s still sorta British. q;

25 laZardo  Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:55:54am

re: #23 Barrett Brown

If they are so reflexive to call Wikileaks a foreign plot, then surely there must be a lot of dirt on them too from the cables. The only reason it would seem so biased against the United States in particular is mainly because that’s where all the cables came from.

26 Barrett Brown  Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:25:54am

re: #25 laZardo

Yes, there probably a number of additional cables to be released that will prove harmful to factions of the Russian government, and several that have been released so far fit that description.

27 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Dec 11, 2010 12:31:41pm

I’m no fan of Assange’s, but I like trying to scrub the internet of particular content even less. I more or less see it as a net neutrality issue. A specific publisher is attempting to be denied access to internet infrastructure based on content. That doesn’t sit well with me.

28 Barrett Brown  Sat, Dec 11, 2010 3:18:44pm

I have responded to this and other objections. ordinary-gentlemen.com


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