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1 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 10:37:16am

An anarchist with a conspiracy theory about government sponsored false flag attacks? Sorry I can't take this seriously enough to investigate. Send it to Alex Jones or Jesse Ventura, maybe they'd like it.

2 Bob Levin  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 10:46:21am

I have a quick question about your anarchism. I know this is off topic, so I apologize. Who provides you with your philosophical foundations? In other words, who were your most influential authors and philosophers? I ask because Marxists have a pretty extensive reading list, if someone was interested. Anarchists, not so much. And, second question, where does their writing end and your own thoughts begin? I'm sure that you don't robotically spout quotes from Emma Goldman, but you would read her and put your own fingerprint on her essays.

3 Barrett Brown  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 10:53:46am

re: #1 Killgore Trout

"An anarchist with a conspiracy theory about government sponsored false flag attacks? Sorry I can't take this seriously enough to investigate."

Really? You of all people are not interested in investigating a factual account so that you might be able to bring something useful to the table or otherwise challenge your own opinion? Holy shit, I think I'm having a heart attack! Damn you, Killgore Trout!

"Send it to Alex Jones or Jesse Ventura, maybe they'd like it."

You should send your comment to Justin Raimondo, he'd definitely like it! You know how you were talking about people who oppose Israel liking Wikileaks? Well, Raimondo absolutely hates Israel, so I guess you and him have a lot to talk about!

4 Buck  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 10:57:39am

I am confused. You use the term "intended prank". Does that mean you do, or don't really believe what you talk about?

I mean... usually a prank involves .... a joke, or setup that you later expose as a lie that was used to fool someone.

I can't follow this.... who are you pranking? And how?

5 Barrett Brown  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:00:48am

re: #2 Bob Levin

I was influenced by Alexander Berkman (who of course was Goldman's working associate for a while) when I was 13 and thereafter a communist anarchist. Eventually I began to oppose all initiation of force and became an anarcho-libertarian/anarcho/capitalist. I am now an anarcho-technorat, although I can't point to any particular author who influenced me on that; rather, this stance is the result of my work in the media and politics and in particular my examination of how institutions work. Earlier this year I founded an experimental anarcho-technocratic entity called Project PM which I'd be happy to tell you about and share materials on our work if you'd like to e-mail me at barriticus@gmail.com. Or, click this link: [Link: ordinary-gentlemen.com...] We're working on several sub-programs like our Science Journalism Improvement Program and our Africa Development Program in addition to a blogger communication schematic and a similar schematic by which individuals can corroborate on shared goals. Media reform is our main specific goal, though; I have talked to Charles a great deal about PM, even before I founded the organization. I also mention it in the Vanity Fair profile I wrote on Charles last summer.

6 Barrett Brown  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:04:21am

re: #4 Buck

I was pranking the Kremlin. I use the term "prank" out of recognition that my effort wasn't exactly earth-shattering. I do indeed believe it, as does former CIA covert operative Barry Eisler and other analysts including Mark Adomanis (who is rather pro-Russia and has no reason to *want* to believe it) and other journalists and intel folks I know. You can see the actual RT appearance on YouTube if you look up "Army lies on occasion," which was the title RT used for some reason.

7 Buck  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:06:56am

That is fine with me, everyone gets to say what they think. I just don't think "prank" means what you think it means.

8 Barrett Brown  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:11:28am

re: #7 Buck

Okay. What does "prank" mean? Do you think "prank" is insufficient to cover what I did? It might be. What word would you use?

9 Bob Levin  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:12:48am

re: #5 Barrett Brown

Thanks for the answer, I have to run now. My next questions would be about your feelings on Feyerabend and Ivan Illich. So, if this thread is still going when I get back, I'll talk to you later. If not, much later.

10 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:13:07am

re: #3 Barrett Brown

You know how you were talking about people who oppose Israel liking Wikileaks?

Well I think it's becoming clear that there's a pattern in your views on terrorism. You seemed outraged over the death of Peace Activists (Israel President Claims Soldiers Did "Nothing" to Dead Passengers) at the hands of the evil Israeli regime. When there is photographic evidence of them taking hostages. Now you're making the claim that bombing attributed to Chechen Islamists were the fault of the Russians.
I couldn't care less about a conversation between two extremist lunatics about a terrorism conspiracy theory.

11 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:16:49am

re: #10 Killgore Trout


I couldn't care less about a conversation between two extremist lunatics about a terrorism conspiracy theory.

That deserves at least a 5 thousand word response.

Where would Anarchy® be without word processing technology?

12 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:18:19am

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Well I think it's becoming clear that there's a pattern in your views on terrorism. You seemed outraged over the death of Peace Activists (Israel President Claims Soldiers Did "Nothing" to Dead Passengers) at the hands of the evil Israeli regime. When there is photographic evidence of them taking hostages. Now you're making the claim that bombing attributed to Chechen Islamists were the fault of the Russians.
I couldn't care less about a conversation between two extremist lunatics about a terrorism conspiracy theory.

Well said. Upding!

13 Barrett Brown  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:25:07am

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Great. Remember that I've been working with Charles Johnson on various things for about a year now. I even got him a paying gig at True/Slant, defended him from various enemies even at a loss to my own career opportunities, and wrote a glowing profile about him for Vanity Fair and other outlets. You should write a diary about his connections to me! Oh noes, Charles Johnson coddles with a terrorist-supporting Israel hater!

14 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:28:48am

re: #13 Barrett Brown

Great. Remember that I've been working with Charles Johnson on various things for about a year now. I even got him a paying gig at True/Slant, defended him from various enemies even at a loss to my own career opportunities, and wrote a glowing profile about him for Vanity Fair and other outlets. You should write a diary about his connections to me! Oh noes, Charles Johnson coddles with a terrorist-supporting Israel hater!

That's between you and Charles. I personally find your views extreme, stupid and dishonest.

15 Buck  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:29:49am

re: #8 Barrett Brown

Okay. What does "prank" mean? Do you think "prank" is insufficient to cover what I did? It might be. What word would you use?

I think a prank is a joke that is set up with a lie in order to suck someone in to believing the lie. Most important is that you expose the lie to the victim once the prank has worked... if you don't do that part then it is just a lie.

I think what you are doing is giving your opinion about some evidence (not proof) that you think means something that others don't agree with. There is nothing wrong with this. I do it all the time.

For example, I am of the opinion that the whole Fatah/Hamas war is a set up by them to play good cop bad cop. No one of any importance has been killed by one side or the other. And in the end they still move money and arms from the "good cop" to the "bad cop". Usually by what i think is pretend violence. I guess you might see a false flag thing there...

Some will agree, some will disagree, and some will ignore. But it is NOT a prank.

16 Barrett Brown  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:46:53am

re: #15 Buck

Gotcha. I used the term "prank" because in stating my case, I did it in contravention of what was expected/hoped for by a television station that is backed by the Kremlin. My views themselves are not "pranks;" expressing those views to a Russian audience on a station that is intended to give them and outsiders pro-Russian propaganda is a prank. That should probably clear up my meaning.

17 Buck  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 12:25:33pm

Ahh then you think you were "pranking" the TV station. The lie in this case is that you were going to talk about one thing (a safe thing) and then really talk about something not so safe. Something they (you think) don't want you to talk about. You would then hope they don't edit you, and spread the word that you do that sort of thing.

Of course if they do edit you out then only you will ever know about it...

.
.
.

I still don't get how it works in your favor... but again that is fine with me, everyone gets to say what they think.

18 Barrett Brown  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 12:48:02pm

re: #17 Buck

First off, I don't do that sort of thing on private stations. I went on Fox News beforehand and was entirely polite (although I was not treated entirely professionally). I have since done interviews for other media. And no actual journalists respect Russia Today so I'm not concerned with them "spreading the word." And I'm not going to cooperate with a Kremlin-backed propaganda station anyway, no matter what the consequences; if I were interested in exclusively pursuing my "favor" I'd spend more time on my assigned film treatments and less time trying to convince people about causes I believe in.

19 Buck  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 1:13:53pm

re: #18 Barrett Brown

First off, I don't do that sort of thing on private stations. I went on Fox News beforehand and was entirely polite (although I was not treated entirely professionally). I have since done interviews for other media. And no actual journalists respect Russia Today so I'm not concerned with them "spreading the word." And I'm not going to cooperate with a Kremlin-backed propaganda station anyway, no matter what the consequences; if I were interested in exclusively pursuing my "favor" I'd spend more time on my assigned film treatments and less time trying to convince people about causes I believe in.

Hey, like I said, it is all good with me. I am not judging. I don't really care... I am just trying to understand what you are writing here.

So if I understand you right, the 'cause you believe in' (in this case) is.... Putin is a bad guy and Russians are suffering under his leadership. And the example you give is this bombing of 'his own people' as 'justification for the Second Chechen War'.

Well, you didn't ask for it, but I will give you my opinion. You will never get any traction without finding a way to blame the USA or the jews. Nothing bad ever happens in this world with some kind of tie in to the USA or Israel (or when you are lucky BOTH).

Sure the wikileaks data dump had dirt on others.... you might notice that the only stuff to really find it's way to the top of the pile makes the USA or Israel look like villains. Even when the real evil is caught saying something bad, they are conspiring with ..... you guessed it it the USA or Israel.

NOW make those FSB agents CIA or Mossad and you will have yourself a hit!

Don't worry about it... Dylan Avery didn't get it right at the start either....

20 Bob Levin  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 2:06:28pm

re: #5 Barrett Brown

I'm not sure if the thread is still going. It seems as if the argument is about labels, how you label yourself, rejecting the labels and views folks say you have--so I just want to be clear on your description of yourself.

1. Communist/anarchist. This can go several ways. Do you mean Marxist, Marxist-Leninist, or critical theorist? In other words, if you just see capitalism as flawed, so did Emma Goldman, so you don't need the Marxist label. Do you think a vanguard is needed to lead the masses towards new institutions--in which case you don't need the term anarchist. Or do you see Marxism in the Adorno, Marcuse, Fromm light and use this as a paradigm for psychology, in which case Marxism and anarchism could fit together. Or...

2.

Eventually I began to oppose all initiation of force

Would it be reasonable to say that you are a pacifist? If so, then Killgore has a reasonable question, because sometimes force is initiated. So how do respond when this happens. Evenly or with bias?

3.

and became an anarcho-libertarian/anarcho/capitalist

I'm totally stumped here. I haven't any idea what this could mean.

4.

I am now an anarcho-technorat

Okay, now we're getting into the ballpark of Feyerabend and Illich. I think. Are we?

21 Barrett Brown  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 2:23:26pm

re: #20 Bob Levin

Thread's kind of dead, but I really appreciate your questions. If I have time, I'll write a post at The League about this in response and will post a link in this thread or notify you through other means if you have any ideas, as I was already planning on writing a great deal more on anarchism anyway.

22 Barrett Brown  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 2:58:33pm

re: #19 Buck

You're right in a way, and it's unfortunate that some people attack the U.S. and Israel for doing the same thing as other states. But my audience isn't of that sort, and neither are the people I'm trying to persuade.

23 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 3:06:41pm

Barrett, I'm writing now, don't know how much time it will take, since I'm not simply responding to your reply, as it would be boring for the readers (though I will explicitly acknowledge both your arguments and whatever mistakes I made, e.g. the one in regard to the arrest), but rather try to look at the evidence as a whole. May take some time, a day or two depending on what happens in the meatworld.

24 Barrett Brown  Wed, Dec 15, 2010 3:20:18pm

re: #23 Sergey Romanov

That's perfect, take your time and absolutely feel free to go back over what we've discussed thus far.


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