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1 Bob Levin  Mon, Feb 14, 2011 12:37:48am

I don’t think anyone is worried about democracy in Egypt. The worry is that there are political forces in Egypt that will be more oppressive within Egypt and more aggressive in foreign affairs, as is the case with Iran.

This is the rationale that the Mubaraks and the Assads of the region have given the world for years—“I might not be ideal, but my people are far worse.”

Add to this that US diplomats to the region usually do not speak the native language, and you have a western world that is mostly unaware of what is actually happening.

Even the author of this article acknowledges the possibility of a de-evolution within the ruling mechanism of Egypt. Everyone hopes that this doesn’t happen, but it might—especially if the problems of infrastructure and food supply are not addressed as top priority.

2 CuriousLurker  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:50:36pm

re: #1 Bob Levin

I was mostly surprised to learn that the first paragraph was true. It’s totally different from the impression we’re given about our “allies”. I mean I know our “friends” in SA, Pakistan, etc. play both sides of the fence, but for some reason I thought Egypt was different.

BTW, a while bac I left a comment for you about having finally watched Gentleman’s Agreement, but I guess you never read it.

3 Bob Levin  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 12:56:39am

re: #2 CuriousLurker

No, I didn’t see it. I wonder if the Wizard is working on a mailbox system. So what did you think about the movie?

I also posted something else on Egypt, good article, written by a guy who was there. It’s a long piece, but you will know all there is to know after reading it. The magazine I linked from is, and has been, a great source for this kind of inside current events story. I’ll link to it again…just for you.

http://www.telospress.com/main/index.php?main_page=news_article&article_id=416

4 CuriousLurker  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:23:47pm

re: #3 Bob Levin

No, I didn’t see it. I wonder if the Wizard is working on a mailbox system. So what did you think about the movie?

I also posted something else on Egypt, good article, written by a guy who was there. It’s a long piece, but you will know all there is to know after reading it. The magazine I linked from is, and has been, a great source for this kind of inside current events story. I’ll link to it again…just for you.

http://www.telospress.com/main/index.php?main_page =news_article&article_id=416

Very interesting article; thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Regarding the movie, I very much enjoyed it. And that’s coming from someone who, with only a few exceptions, doesn’t usually care for old B&W movies because the dialog always seems terribly stilted. It also didn’t hurt that Gregory Peck is easy on the eyes, heh.

I was more than a little taken aback at how systemic the anti-Semitism was. I can’t decide if I was more bothered by the overt examples or the subtler ones (like the mailbox incident). I can see now why many Jews changed their names and tried so hard to blend in. I was also very disturbed that some of the Jews seemed to have just given up, and in the case of Peck’s secretary, even begun to dislike (and even mock) other Jews who were “too Jewish”. I understand this was a defense mechanism, but I found it very upsetting & disheartening nonetheless (perhaps because I see the same amongst Muslims).

I also never knew until I watched the film that the title was also a euphemism for an implicit anti-Semitism. That was an ugly realization.

The DVD also had a behind the scenes feature that put the film in the context of the political climate of its time—that helped tremendously, but I sort of wished I’d seen it before watching the movie rather than after.

I was glad that in the end several things got resolved and that Peck’s (ex) fiancée, Kathy, finally confronted her passive enabling of the bigotry around her. Oh, and Celeste Holm & John Garfield were awesome!

There were a lot of layers to digest. In order to fully appreciate it, I’ll probably need to watch it again once my brain has had some time to mull over what I saw the first time around. (I think you mentioned that, didn’t you?)

Thanks a lot for telling me about it. IMO, it should be required viewing in schools, but I know that’ll never happen.

5 Bob Levin  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:11:33pm

re: #4 CuriousLurker

Great. My thoughts exactly, and there is so much to talk about. It tells the truth. Elia Kazan, got to admire him. So many great films. A Face in the Crowd is, well, terrifying. That should also be required.

You felt that twinge, didn’t you? You feel it all around you, you’ve been feeling it, more than likely. And you’re so right about assimilation. The pressures are unbelievable. That’s because we, Jews, just don’t know what to do about it. We feel helpless in the face of it. But we shouldn’t. There are things to do. Quiet things, but effective.

It could be viewed in schools, but not if the kiddies have this completely helpless feeling afterward. You have to show them the light at the end of the tunnel (Sure is a long tunnel. Yep).

This dovetails into the discussion we had tonight about the BBC show on Wilders. I hope you understand that I was really angry at the filmmaker. I wrote another post to that thread, about what a responsible filmmaker would do, and then I spoke a little bit about the nature of racism and bigotry—with a light at the end of the tunnel.

The thought certainly isn’t original, but for our discussions we could call it the mirror effect. You can see it clearly in Gentleman’s Agreement, and you can see it clearly—well, everywhere. I’ll leave off here, in case you didn’t read all of the Wilders thread. But the film, both films really, give one a lot to think and talk about.

Thanks for taking the time to watch. Talk to you soon.


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