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21 comments

1 Buck  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 8:29:08am

My first thought was that Walker clearly DIDN'T know Koch.

Of course secondly all of his responses were passive. Agreeing with the caller, and being polite at the invitation. This is what most people do. Especially pols. "That would be nice...." Not that he actually did it.

However the point about the dems in the hotels is interesting. Who is paying for the room and board? Isn't anyone (media) the least bit curious?

Still no confirmation from the Walker camp that this even took place. I heard it, but most haven't. Server crushed by the traffic.

2 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 8:30:56am

re: #1 Buck

My first thought was that Walker clearly DIDN'T know Koch.

Of course secondly all of his responses were passive. Agreeing with the caller, and being polite at the invitation. This is what most people do. Especially pols. "That would be nice..." Not that he actually did it.

However the point about the dems in the hotels is interesting. Who is paying for the room and board? Isn't anyone (media) the least bit curious?

Still no confirmation from the Walker camp that this even took place. I heard it, but most haven't. Server crushed by the traffic.

Senators get paid a lot. Why couldn't they be paying for their own room and board?

3 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 8:38:36am

re: #1 Buck

You ignored the bit about troublemakers.

4 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 8:42:39am

re: #1 Buck

My first thought was that Walker clearly DIDN'T know Koch.

Of course secondly all of his responses were passive. Agreeing with the caller, and being polite at the invitation. This is what most people do. Especially pols. "That would be nice..." Not that he actually did it.

However the point about the dems in the hotels is interesting. Who is paying for the room and board? Isn't anyone (media) the least bit curious?

Still no confirmation from the Walker camp that this even took place. I heard it, but most haven't. Server crushed by the traffic.

By the way Buck... on the issue of if this event took place or not...


TAKE THAT!


[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]

5 shutdown  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 8:43:34am

I read the transcript and I don't see anything particularly damning. In fact, Walker deflects any suggestion of using force or "planting troublemakers". He is clearly being deferential to a supposed conservative bigwig, but does not seem to take the initiative on proposing illegal activity. As to being "shown a good time", Walker does not schedule the trip or accept - even constructively - a gift or gratuity or bonus of any kind.

Whole lot of nothing here, if you ask me. So the guy agreed with a lewd statement made by the caller. Whoop-de-doo.

6 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 8:46:44am

re: #5 imp_62

Yeah, nothing damning about Walker reporting to "Koch" like to a superior. Nothing damning about him admitting that they did think about using troublemakers. Try harder.

7 shutdown  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 8:51:36am

re: #6 Sergey Romanov

I am not arguing that there is not some organizational link where the Kochs and their ilk pull strings, or that Walker is not a scumbag etc. I just don't see anything here that even remotely resembles a smoking gun. It's a bunch of blahblah where "Koch" makes a bunch of suggestions and Walker doesn't bite. Nothing comes from Walker, he is merely responding. Maybe I am looking at this with the eyes of a lawyer, but I will repeat - I see nothing particularly egregious here.

8 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 8:52:31am

re: #7 imp_62

I am not arguing that there is not some organizational link where the Kochs and their ilk pull strings, or that Walker is not a scumbag etc. I just don't see anything here that even remotely resembles a smoking gun. It's a bunch of blahblah where "Koch" makes a bunch of suggestions and Walker doesn't bite. Nothing comes from Walker, he is merely responding. Maybe I am looking at this with the eyes of a lawyer, but I will repeat - I see nothing particularly egregious here.

There's nothing illegal yes, but in my eyes this can only end up being bad PR for Walker...

9 shutdown  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 8:53:15am

I see this as far more explosive, as the person in question initiated a disgusting proposal to use live ammunition against people protesting peacefully and legally:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

10 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 8:54:29am

re: #9 imp_62

I see this as far more explosive, as the person in question initiated a disgusting proposal to use live ammunition against people protesting peacefully and legally:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Yes that is even worse than this, no question... but if you're arguing that Scott Walker will come out ahead because he didn't suggest shooting protesters... that's a pretty low hurdle to clear my friend.

11 shutdown  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 9:04:20am

re: #10 jamesfirecat

Absolutely not suggesting that, and I don't want to be seen as defending Walker in any way. My comments are restricted to my thoughts about the taped conversation as transcribed.

12 Buck  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 9:06:28am

re: #2 jamesfirecat

Senators get paid a lot. Why couldn't they be paying for their own room and board?

Could be... BUT don't you want to know for sure?

I mean this phone call is only interesting to me in how it is deflecting from the actual illegal activity.

I mean the illegal strike, the doctors notes, the Union busing in protesters, and possibly paying for the room and board of the 14 democratic senators?

What I see when anyone talks about the Koch connection is projection. Only difference is that the unions are being open and up front about their corrupt practices, knowing that the press will grant them cover.

13 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 9:08:50am

re: #12 Buck

Could be... BUT don't you want to know for sure?

I mean this phone call is only interesting to me in how it is deflecting from the actual illegal activity.

I mean the illegal strike, the doctors notes, the Union busing in protesters, and possibly paying for the room and board of the 14 democratic senators?

What I see when anyone talks about the Koch connection is projection. Only difference is that the unions are being open and up front about their corrupt practices, knowing that the press will grant them cover.

Do you have any proof to back up the idea that they are "possibly paying for the room and board of the 14 democratic senators?"

14 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 9:12:41am

re: #12 Buck

Could be... BUT don't you want to know for sure?

I mean this phone call is only interesting to me in how it is deflecting from the actual illegal activity.

I mean the illegal strike, the doctors notes, the Union busing in protesters, and possibly paying for the room and board of the 14 democratic senators?

What I see when anyone talks about the Koch connection is projection. Only difference is that the unions are being open and up front about their corrupt practices, knowing that the press will grant them cover.

Also on the illegality of the strike: the idea that any union should not be allowed to strike while the powers of that union are about to be seriously curtailed is bullshit and a bad law/lack of a law in and of itself.


I applaud those who break this law the same way I would those who non violently broke "whites only" laws in the South during the civil rights protests.

15 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 9:16:26am

re: #14 jamesfirecat

Also on the illegality of the strike: the idea that any union should not be allowed to strike while the powers of that union are about to be seriously curtailed is bullshit and a bad law/lack of a law in and of itself.

I applaud those who break this law the same way I would those who non violently broke "whites only" laws in the South during the civil rights protests.

The civil rights demonstrators did actually violate (bad) laws. In this case, I don't know that the strike's "illegality" extends beyod a violation of the contract and work rules. That's a Wisconsin lawyer question.

16 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 9:18:02am

re: #15 Decatur Deb

The civil rights demonstrators did actually violate (bad) laws. In this case, I don't know that the strike's "illegality" extends beyod a violation of the contract and work rules. That's a Wisconsin lawyer question.

Either way its a set up that is unfair/bad/makes no sense and should not be that way.

So I applaud those who would break such a bad rule/contract and draw attention to a problem that needs to be dealt with in how our society functions.

Any union that currently has collective bargaining rights should always be allowed to strike in response to an attempt to curtail those rights.

17 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 9:20:48am

re: #16 jamesfirecat

Either way its a set up that is unfair/bad/makes no sense and should not be that way.

So I applaud those who would break such a bad rule/contract and draw attention to a problem that needs to be dealt with in how our society functions.

Any union that currently has collective bargaining rights should always be allowed to strike in response to an attempt to curtail those rights.

The teachers and other state employees would not have struck under the established rules. Walker tore up the rulebook.

18 Buck  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 9:33:05am

re: #14 jamesfirecat

Also on the illegality of the strike: the idea that any union should not be allowed to strike while the powers of that union are about to be seriously curtailed is bullshit and a bad law/lack of a law in and of itself.

I applaud those who break this law the same way I would those who non violently broke "whites only" laws in the South during the civil rights protests.

There you go showing a demonstration of "giving cover". OK, so we are clear, you are sympathetic to acts of fraud, when it suits you. I mean that is what union members lying about their health issues so that they could take days off without losing their jobs is... fraud.

And no I can't prove anything about who is going to ultimately pay for the senators stay. But isn't it interesting that no one is even asking the questions? I suppose that the individual senators will pay, and then magically donations will come from the unions. Kinda like what everyone here is accusing the Koch boys of doing.

BTW Have you seen or heard any interviews with any of the 14? Any hard journalism involved? Or is this just bang on the republicans until something breaks?

19 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 9:37:39am

re: #18 Buck

There you go showing a demonstration of "giving cover". OK, so we are clear, you are sympathetic to acts of fraud, when it suits you. I mean that is what union members lying about their health issues so that they could take days off without losing their jobs is... fraud.

And no I can't prove anything about who is going to ultimately pay for the senators stay. But isn't it interesting that no one is even asking the questions? I suppose that the individual senators will pay, and then magically donations will come from the unions. Kinda like what everyone here is accusing the Koch boys of doing.

BTW Have you seen or heard any interviews with any of the 14? Any hard journalism involved? Or is this just bang on the republicans until something breaks?

Just "asking questions" when you have no proof Buck makes you sound more like Beck than someone I should waste my time arguing.

And by the way yes I have seen an interview with any of the 14, chiefly because one of them was on Colbert last night, but hey it still counts.

Finally, they are only committing illegal acts, because the act that they should (and are) committing should not be illegal. One of the best ways to prove a law is broken and wrong for America is to go ahead and break it.

Do you think it is right that they can have their right to collectively bargain taken away from them while they are legally unable to do any sort of mass protest against it?

And by the way you said ", knowing that the press will grant them cover." I didn't know that the fact that I posted on Charles blog meant I qualified as "the press"!

20 Buck  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 9:48:29am

Right, I bring it up in context of you accusing Walker of "an ethics violation" for being shown a good time that never actually happened. And that makes you all high and might about what I say, which is... you know probably actually happening right in front of you.

OK, so other than the fact that Colbert is not news... can you point me to any MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS... News interview? Cause obviously Colbert doesn't count...You do know he is fake right?

OK, so in your opinion it is ok to commit fraud IF your cause is pure.

Other than the actual fact that "their right to collectively bargain (is being) taken away" is not a true representation of what is in the bill. AND that the democratic process does allow for them to call and write their elected Representatives in order to express their opinion. That there are many other legal ways to protest.

BUT heyif fraud is ok with you, then what about bombing, or shooting? Billy the Terrorist is happy to tell you that if you think your heart is pure, and your cause just... then really anything goes.

21 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 23, 2011 9:51:57am

re: #20 Buck

Right, I bring it up in context of you accusing Walker of "an ethics violation" for being shown a good time that never actually happened. And that makes you all high and might about what I say, which is... you know probably actually happening right in front of you.

OK, so other than the fact that Colbert is not news... can you point me to any MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS... News interview? Cause obviously Colbert doesn't count...You do know he is fake right?

OK, so in your opinion it is ok to commit fraud IF your cause is pure.

Other than the actual fact that "their right to collectively bargain (is being) taken away" is not a true representation of what is in the bill. AND that the democratic process does allow for them to call and write their elected Representatives in order to express their opinion. That there are many other legal ways to protest.

BUT heyif fraud is ok with you, then what about bombing, or shooting? Billy the Terrorist is happy to tell you that if you think your heart is pure, and your cause just... then really anything goes.

I only support non violent breaking of laws, and I handle them on a case by case basis.

If you want to discuss this more Buck, Charles just opened an entire post on the subject.

Care to join me there?


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