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1 researchok  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:59:16pm

I have no issue with the hearings. Anything we can do to root out terror from anywhere in our society is OK by me.

My issue is with King.

If his motives were pure he would have made sure the hearings were held behind closed doors. The fact that he wanted a circus speaks to his real motives.

Also, Ellison has no business validating the hearings, irrespective of what he has to say.

This is all a sham.

2 worknhard  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:50:43pm

I have been following Dr Jasser for several years. He lives in a city near me and occasionally is interviewed by the local press.

He has taken the initiative to speak out against radical Muslim extremists and their religious/political agenda.

One of the few Muslims that have done so. As a Muslim, he knows better than any infidel on what the religion of Islam is all about.

Listen to him and take notes. You might learn something.

3 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:27:17pm

re: #1 researchok

I have no issue with the hearings. Anything we can do to root out terror from anywhere in our society is OK by me.

My issue is with King.

If his motives were pure he would have made sure the hearings were held behind closed doors. The fact that he wanted a circus speaks to his real motives.

Also, Ellison has no business validating the hearings, irrespective of what he has to say.

This is all a sham.

It is indeed a sham and King is fooling no one with half a brain. First of all because, as you mentioned, he's is making a circus of it instead of doing it behind closed doors, and second of all because of the list of controversial people he's attempted to have speak (all of which he's had to back off of except for Jasser, the token "moderate" Muslim). I'm convinced he'd gladly let Geller, Spencer and Gaffney speak if he thought he could get away with it. His numerous negative comments about Muslims haven't helped (even when he follows them with disclaimers).

As for Ellison, he probably feels like he's the lone member Congress who will try to defend the vast majority of law-abiding Muslims from being lumped in with extremists, so I'm not going to fault him for that any more than I would fault a Catholic, Jewish, or Mormon congressman for trying to do the same if the shoe was on the other foot.

As for having hearings, of course we should do anything we can to root out terrorism in our society. I don't know of any sane person who would argue otherwise. I've never personally heard an American Muslim complain that our government shouldn't do whatever it can (within the bounds of the Constitution) to protect Americans—including American Muslims—from terrorism.

As far as I know, there are no bombs, bullets, biological, or chemical weapons that are capable of distinguishing between Muslim & non-Muslim Americans when they're unleashed. I know the 9/11 attacks sure didn't spare Muslims that were in the buildings, and terrorists overseas have shown they have no compunctions about slaughtering fellow Muslims there as well.

4 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:33:40pm

re: #2 worknhard

I have been following Dr Jasser for several years. He lives in a city near me and occasionally is interviewed by the local press.

He has taken the initiative to speak out against radical Muslim extremists and their religious/political agenda.

One of the few Muslims that have done so. As a Muslim, he knows better than any infidel on what the religion of Islam is all about.

That's pure bullshit.

Listen to him and take notes. You might learn something.

As someone who's been a practicing Muslim for 20 years—quite a bit longer than Jasser has been pandering to the far right—I have nothing whatsoever to learn from him.

5 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:42:04pm

Karma: -98

worknhard

Registered since: Mar 3, 2007 at 4:42 pm
No. of comments posted: 46
No. of Pages posted: 0

6 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:58:41pm

re: #2 worknhard

I followed him for a while too. When people here were saying "Where are the Muslims who condemn terrorism?!?" I would point to his website. I quit doing that, because it became obvious he was taking the role of "the Muslim Robert Spencer". It has been lucrative, it looks like.

Your comment, "As a Muslim, he knows better than any infidel on what the religion of Islam is all about" is exactly what he counts on, what he takes to the bank, so to speak.

There are plenty of other Muslims you could pay attention to (like the one who posted this article.) If this is the only one you pay attention to, it's because he agrees with your own agenda.

7 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 6:51:52pm

re: #6 wrenchwench

Thanks, ww, you handled that a lot better than I did. These hearings have me feeling all twitchy.

8 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 9:20:26am

So is this guy the "Muslim Jeremy Ben Ami"?

9 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 10:04:05am

Well, I don't know anything about Jeremy Ben Ami—I looked him up on Wikipedia, but there's not much info there. If he sits on boards with known anti-Semites and actively works at spreading lies & fear about other Jews, then, yeah, Jasser is like him.

10 louis  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 10:06:53am

I'll take Zuhdi Jasser over Tariq Ramadan every day. Talk about being duplicitous. There are many Muslims and ex-Muslims that agree with Dr. Jasser. Nonnie Darwish, Walid Phares, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, etc. By the way, what's wrong with Daniel Pipes? He has always said the problem is Jihadists, not Islam, and he supports the current revolts in the Middle East. Getting back to the topic - Query: How many Muslims have been arrested and convicted in America since 9/11? There have been scores with the Ft. Hood shooter and the Sudbury, MA terrorist still to stand trial. Maybe Rep. King has a point.

11 iossarian  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 10:21:32am

re: #10 louis

Query: How many Muslims have been arrested and convicted in America since 9/11? There have been scores [...]

Really? Scores?

Links please.

12 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 10:26:27am

re: #10 louis

What do you think about King's support for IRA terrorists?

13 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 10:27:26am

re: #10 louis

I'll take Zuhdi Jasser over Tariq Ramadan every day. Talk about being duplicitous. There are many Muslims and ex-Muslims that agree with Dr. Jasser. Nonnie Darwish, Walid Phares, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, etc. By the way, what's wrong with Daniel Pipes? He has always said the problem is Jihadists, not Islam, and he supports the current revolts in the Middle East. Getting back to the topic - Query: How many Muslims have been arrested and convicted in America since 9/11? There have been scores with the Ft. Hood shooter and the Sudbury, MA terrorist still to stand trial. Maybe Rep. King has a point.

Pipes was OK, more or less. Until he suggested Obama is a Muslim.

14 iossarian  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 10:28:44am

re: #12 Obdicut

What do you think about King's support for IRA terrorists?

Freedom fighters. Completely different.

15 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 10:32:03am

re: #10 louis

I'll take Zuhdi Jasser over Tariq Ramadan every day. Talk about being duplicitous. There are many Muslims and ex-Muslims that agree with Dr. Jasser. Nonnie Darwish, Walid Phares, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, etc. By the way, what's wrong with Daniel Pipes? He has always said the problem is Jihadists, not Islam, and he supports the current revolts in the Middle East.

Who said anything about Tariq Ramadan? As for Walid Phares & Ayaan Hirsi Ali, they were removed from the list of proposed speakers for good reason. Google it.

Nonie Darwish detests Islam. Daniel is-Grover-Norquist-an-Islamist Pipes? Daniel was-Barack-Obama-a-Muslim Pipes? Puhleez.

Getting back to the topic - Query: How many Muslims have been arrested and convicted in America since 9/11? There have been scores with the Ft. Hood shooter and the Sudbury, MA terrorist still to stand trial. Maybe Rep. King has a point.

Has anyone here claimed there's no problem or that no investigation should be made? The only objections being made are to the 3-ring circus nature of Rep. King's hearings.

16 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 10:40:09am

re: #15 CuriousLurker

Daniel was-Barack-Obama-a-Muslim Pipes?

This by the way was such an obvious pathetic pre-election concern trolling. What a way to waste one's credibility.

17 louis  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 11:08:40am

First of all, Daniel Pipes said he believes Obama when he says he's a Christian. Pipes said, "He is not now a Muslim." The point of his article was whether or not Muslims consider Obama to be a Muslim or worse, an apostate. Next, since 9/11 the FBI has arrested 126 Muslims for suspected ties to terrorism. You can look it up Well, maybe we have achieved consensus. I will concede that King is grandstanding since you have agreed that an investigation should be made.

18 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 11:09:55am

re: #17 louis

What do you think about King's support for Irish terrorism?

19 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 11:10:55am

re: #17 louis

First of all, Daniel Pipes said he believes Obama when he says he's a Christian. Pipes said, "He is not now a Muslim." The point of his article was whether or not Muslims consider Obama to be a Muslim or worse, an apostate. Next, since 9/11 the FBI has arrested 126 Muslims for suspected ties to terrorism. You can look it up Well, maybe we have achieved consensus. I will concede that King is grandstanding since you have agreed that an investigation should be made.

Puhleaze. It was transparent. Folks on the street wouldn't delve into such details. It would be a "Respected scholar says Obama is a Muslim". Pipes knew it. It was nothing but concern trolling. That didn't have any substance behind it.

20 stockman  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 11:11:04am

re: #15 CuriousLurker

Well, Daniel Pipies deconstruction of Obama's religious background is not as hysterical as you make it out to be, from the quotes and context of the article; more of an exercise in splitting hairs.

"Summarized, available evidence suggests Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father. At some point, he converted to Christianity. It appears false to state, as Obama does, "I've always been a Christian" and "I've never practiced Islam." The campaign appears to be either ignorant or fabricating when it states that "Obama never prayed in a mosque."

21 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 11:12:08am

re: #20 stockman

Well, Daniel Pipies deconstruction of Obama's religious background is not as hysterical as you make it out to be, from the quotes and context of the article; more of an exercise in splitting hairs.

"Summarized, available evidence suggests Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father. At some point, he converted to Christianity. It appears false to state, as Obama does, "I've always been a Christian" and "I've never practiced Islam." The campaign appears to be either ignorant or fabricating when it states that "Obama never prayed in a mosque."

Puhleaze. It was transparent. Folks on the street wouldn't delve into such details. It would be a "Respected scholar says Obama is a Muslim". Pipes knew it. It was nothing but concern trolling. That didn't have any substance behind it.

22 Varek Raith  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 11:15:59am

re: #2 worknhard

re: #10 louis

re: #20 stockman

re: #17 louis

You all got a Wingnut Bat Signal or something?

23 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 11:17:17am

re: #22 Varek Raith

re: #10 louis

re: #20 stockman

re: #17 louis

You all got a Wingnut Bat Signal or something?

I guarantee someone has posted a link to this article on a wingnut blog somewhere.

24 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 11:19:38am

re: #17 louis

First of all, Daniel Pipes said he believes Obama when he says he's a Christian. Pipes said, "He is not now a Muslim." The point of his article was whether or not Muslims consider Obama to be a Muslim or worse, an apostate.

What Sergey said.

Next, since 9/11 the FBI has arrested 126 Muslims for suspected ties to terrorism. You can look it up

I don't need to look it up, I'm familiar with the numbers. At no point have I ever denied that there's a problem or that a number of American Muslims have been arrested on charges of terrorism or suspected ties to such, yet you're addressing me as if I have. Why is that?

25 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 11:25:03am

Found it:

[Link: www.google.com...]

This is where the bat signal is. I fucking knew it.

26 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 11:34:00am

re: #25 Fozzie Bear

Found it:

[Link: www.google.com...]

This is where the bat signal is. I fucking knew it.

I looked at that and thought, "Freedom Inion? WTF?" Then I looked at where the space really goes. Good find. And immediately a stalker starts pimping its site.

27 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 11:41:08am

re: #20 stockman

Well, Daniel Pipies deconstruction of Obama's religious background is not as hysterical as you make it out to be, from the quotes and context of the article; more of an exercise in splitting hairs.

It's not as hysterical as I make it out to be? Where do you guys get this stuff from? I didn't make it out to be anything, I simply inserted a linked title of one of his articles between his first & last name. I assume Mr. Pipes chooses the titles for his own articles, so if there was any hysteria, it wasn't coming from me.

"Summarized, available evidence suggests Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father. At some point, he converted to Christianity. It appears false to state, as Obama does, "I've always been a Christian" and "I've never practiced Islam." The campaign appears to be either ignorant or fabricating when it states that "Obama never prayed in a mosque."

According to Islam everyone is born Muslim (including you), and it's their upbringing that changes it. This is why Muslims often refer to themselves as "reverts" instead of "converts". As a scholar Pipes should know this well. He should also know that every Muslim is required to take shahada when they are of age in order for it to be meaningful. Yet Pipes makes no mention of this. I guess he doesn't need to since most people probably won't bother to fact check whatever he says and/or wouldn't know where to being looking even if they were inclined to.

28 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 11:52:10am

I've gotta get back to work. BBL

29 What, me worry?  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 12:47:22pm

Socks from the Swamp aside…

I don't know much about Jasser, but his connection to Spencer, Geller, King, etc is enough to form an opinion. I don't generally do that, but my mother always told me to be careful who your friends are and mothers, you know, are always right!

I have always said that we have to reach out and support American Muslims not work against them. More interfaith gatherings, more meeting together on mutual issues. It's the only way to defeat radical Islam.

Oftentimes, it's easier to work on topics we can agree on off the bat, like women's rights. I don't follow Nonie Darwish, Brigette Gabrielle or Ayaan Hirsi Ali any longer. First, they are no longer Muslims so why should I listen to them bash Muslims. Instead, I chose to follow women like Irshad Manji and Zainab Salbi. These women are a positive force for others and I like the topic of empowering women.

Now maybe if I sat with them, they would tell me terrible things about Israel which would then upset me. I don't know and quite frankly, I don't want to know. Sounds ignorant? Well, I've come to the conclusion that in order to get to peace, you have to come together on things you can agree. The easier stuff first. And maybe later on, you can tackle the other, harder or contentious topics, like World Peace. The other beauty in this idea of mine is that once you become friends, you come from a point of understanding or at least willingness to understand. A positive not negative place.

Anyway, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it :)

30 Michael McBacon  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 1:09:44pm

If a "Muslim" speaks primarily at Christian Right events on the "dangers" of shariah law, take their information with a mountain of salt.

31 tnguitarist  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 2:01:15pm

I, for one, am NOT ok with these hearings. I know that some here are saying it's ok if it helps root out radical Islam. I disagree. We have agencies and officers working hard behind the scenes every day to find terrorist cells. Congressmen sitting around jerking each others' chains in public does nothing for the discourse of this dialogue.

32 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 4:00:08pm

re: #31 tnguitarist

I agree. I do not support these hearings. It is making a public political spectacle out of what is a law enforcement matter. By focusing only on Muslims I feel that it will actually damage the ability of law enforcement to effectively work with the Muslim community. They will feel like they are under attack. Feeling persecuted by the authorities makes you less likely to inform the authorities even if something uncomfortable is going on around you because you don't want their negative gaze to fall upon yourself.

re: #3 CuriousLurker

As far as I know, there are no bombs, bullets, biological, or chemical weapons that are capable of distinguishing between Muslim & non-Muslim Americans when they're unleashed. I know the 9/11 attacks sure didn't spare Muslims that were in the buildings, and terrorists overseas have shown they have no compunctions about slaughtering fellow Muslims there as well.


This is an excellent point. When it suits their purpose partisans feel free to point out that extremist Muslims are killing other groups of Muslims. But then they conveniently decline recognize moderate American Muslims as one of the groups that is under attack by extremists.

Well guess what? We (moderates) are all in danger from extremists of all kinds. Why not have a hearing about that if you must have a public spectacle?

33 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 7:21:56pm

My issue is that for some the obvious way to defend against Islamic Theocracy is to establish a Christian Theocracy in this country.

Most American's, well many including many Muslim American's, are here because they don't want to live under a theocracy.

34 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 7:23:47pm

re: #33 ggt

My issue is that for some the obvious way to defend against Islamic Theocracy is to establish a Christian Theocracy in this country.

Most American's, well many including many Muslim American's, are here because they don't want to live under a theocracy.

Quite Concur.

35 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 8:41:54pm

re: #29 marjoriemoon

I'm going to break my reply into two parts since you've brought up what I think are some important points and the character limit on the content form doesn't give me enough space to answer all at once.

I have always said that we have to reach out and support American Muslims not work against them. More interfaith gatherings, more meeting together on mutual issues. It's the only way to defeat radical Islam.

You have indeed been consistent in your support, and I admire you for that. I think interfaith meetings on mutual issues can be very productive & beneficial for all sides, but in the end it's the Muslim community that's going to have to find more effective ways to combat the radicalization. Keep in mind that the radicalization is a foreign import, making it that much more difficult for American Muslims to figure how to defeat it.

Not being constantly hammered on or treated with suspicion would go a long way towards making that task easier, but since we seem to be the designated political "It" for at least the next couple of years, I doubt it's going to let up any time soon. Being able to open new mosques & schools where the study of classical Islam is taught & debated and where moderation is encouraged would also help tremendously, but, again, people wigging out over such things makes it increasingly difficult to do so.

Oftentimes, it's easier to work on topics we can agree on off the bat, like women's rights. I don't follow Nonie Darwish, Brigette Gabrielle or Ayaan Hirsi Ali any longer. First, they are no longer Muslims so why should I listen to them bash Muslims. Instead, I chose to follow women like Irshad Manji and Zainab Salbi. These women are a positive force for others and I like the topic of empowering women.

I'm not familiar with Zainab Salbi, but I'll take a look at the link you provided. Irshad Manji's personality rubs me the wrong way and I don't care for her approach, but that doesn't mean I disagree with everything she says or that I wouldn't sit down and talk with her in a friendly way.

36 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 9:08:20pm

re: #29 marjoriemoon

Now maybe if I sat with them, they would tell me terrible things about Israel which would then upset me. I don't know and quite frankly, I don't want to know. Sounds ignorant? Well, I've come to the conclusion that in order to get to peace, you have to come together on things you can agree. The easier stuff first. And maybe later on, you can tackle the other, harder or contentious topics, like World Peace. The other beauty in this idea of mine is that once you become friends, you come from a point of understanding or at least willingness to understand. A positive not negative place.

It doesn't sound ignorant at all. Muslims are urged to speak to people according to their understanding, and finding common ground is a big part of that. Those of us who were born & raised in America (esp. converts) also have to remind ourselves that while we may be perfectly comfortable with American culture and religious plurality (and at least passingly familiar with other religious teachings), that's not necessarily the case with non-Muslims and Islamic culture & teachings.

For example, I've known Muslims who were formerly Protestant, Catholic, Mormon, Jewish, etc. These people's families still follow those traditions, so they're intimately familiar with them. This isn't the case with most non-Muslim Americans—they may have had one or more of their family members convert and therefore know a little bit more (than the average American) about Islam, but it's still usually not a lot.

I'm not implying that every American needs to go delve deeply into Islamic studies, but I do think they should recognize that their understanding is probably very limited (perhaps even skewed) and be open to posing more questions to the real people in their lives whom they trust (not the Jassers & Spencers of the world), and then—this is important—and listening to the answers with an open heart & mind.

As for the Israeli/Palestinian thing, I think we Americans need to not bring that conflict here lest the animosity cripple our ability to communicate with one another. Everyone is going to feel some level sympathy when seeing their co-religionists suffer, but I think most of us don't truly understand the day-to-day reality of what things are like for either side. Even those who have spent time there haven't walked a mile in the other's shoes.

I'm glad you don't spend time wondering if Manji or Salbi would tell you awful things about Israel. I doubt they would, but thinking about what they might say would probably just make you feel resentful. I know plenty of Jews both online & off, but anytime my mind starts wandering towards speculating what feelings they may or may not express out of my earshot, I know I need to steer my thoughts back onto a more positive path. To do otherwise would be pointless and only inspire suspicion & mistrust. There's enough of that in the world already without me adding to it.

E gad, I had no intention of writing this much. *grimace*

Anyway, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it :)

Good for you! ;o)

37 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:45:07am

re: #35 CuriousLurker

I'm going to break my reply into two parts since you've brought up what I think are some important points and the character limit on the content form doesn't give me enough space to answer all at once.

You have indeed been consistent in your support, and I admire you for that. I think interfaith meetings on mutual issues can be very productive & beneficial for all sides, but in the end it's the Muslim community that's going to have to find more effective ways to combat the radicalization. Keep in mind that the radicalization is a foreign import, making it that much more difficult for American Muslims to figure how to defeat it.

Not being constantly hammered on or treated with suspicion would go a long way towards making that task easier, but since we seem to be the designated political "It" for at least the next couple of years, I doubt it's going to let up any time soon. Being able to open new mosques & schools where the study of classical Islam is taught & debated and where moderation is encouraged would also help tremendously, but, again, people wigging out over such things makes it increasingly difficult to do so.

I'm not familiar with Zainab Salbi, but I'll take a look at the link you provided. Irshad Manji's personality rubs me the wrong way and I don't care for her approach, but that doesn't mean I disagree with everything she says or that I wouldn't sit down and talk with her in a friendly way.

Thanks for your responses :)

I don't think Muslims can do it alone. I think about Jewish persecution in Europe for 1000 years. Whenever the economy went poorly, the scapegoat was the Jews and they could do nothing to stop it. I'm not saying it's exactly the same, but I find the similarity curious in this country towards Muslims, Blacks and Mexicans (illegal aliens). The poorer of us feel the economic crunch first. Then the GOP rushes to find the scapegoat (minorities) because God forbid it should point to them, where a large part of the blame belongs. You see it in attacks against affirmative action ("They took our jobs!") or when the perception is skewed against minorities, that they are getting all the "white man's" benefits. Then the rise in "White Nationalism". That may be beyond/aside from the issue of radical Islam, but I think it's tied together.

I'm not sure how Muslims can speak out at this point. Do they walk around constantly telling everyone "I'm not a terrorist!" Imams are being careful about new people joining their mosques. A sad but necessary step. But they aren't praised for that. Does anyone even know that? That's why I think it will take more of the majority support to ease this pain.

Btw, I really don't know much about those two women. I've seen Irshad talking more than the other and liked what both have said. But I could definitely know more about each.

Zainab is married to an American Palestinian, IIRC heh

38 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:11:23am

re: #36 CuriousLurker

You're right on about the understanding of Islam in America. It's extremely limited, almost nonexistent. You have to really pay attention, and even then it's confusing. I don't think most people know what Buddhists and Hindus believe either.

The Spencers and Gellers are the loudest. We have to find a way to become louder. The NY mosque issue really hit me because if you want moderates, then you have Daisy and Faisal. And if you can't accept them, then I don't know where to go from there.

Online is different than in person, yes? I can talk smack all day long here! But probably wouldn't share my feelings face-to-face. I have a good Muslim friend (just one hehe) and we never, ever talk M.E. conflict. We talk food, culture, family, but never That Subject. I'd like to, but I'm afraid of losing his friendship. Some things are best left unsaid maybe.

Let me know if you ever get to S. Florida. I'll treat you to a cup of Cafe Cubano :) and we can gossip about LGF... or Israel... LOL

39 CuriousLurker  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:41:42pm
I don't think most people know what Buddhists and Hindus believe either.

QFT

The Spencers and Gellers are the loudest. We have to find a way to become louder.

Yes, they've been really effective at spreading disinformation. It's not just them though, it's a wider network and it's almost purely political. I don't doubt for a minute that both Geller & Spencer sincerely hate Muslims with every fiber of their being, but I also think they're being used (with their full knowledge & consent, I might add). What better job than to be paid good $$ to do something you love?

I figure either Muslims will lose their religious freedom, at which point America will cease being what it was intended to be, or a tipping point will be reached where the majority of Americans decide they're not going to go down that path. When that time comes (and I hope/trust that it will), then the Spencers & Gellers will cease to be politically expedient and will be consigned onto the rubbish heap & forgotten, being recalled only occasionally as embarrassing footnotes during a troubled time in our history.

Online is different than in person, yes? I can talk smack all day long here! But probably wouldn't share my feelings face-to-face. I have a good Muslim friend (just one hehe) and we never, ever talk M.E. conflict. We talk food, culture, family, but never That Subject. I'd like to, but I'm afraid of losing his friendship. Some things are best left unsaid maybe.

It's definitely MUCH easier to talk online. Partly because most of us are fairly anonymous, but also because we have time to think and change our words before hitting the "Post This Comment" button. In real life, not so much.

Heh, The Subject. That's a tough one. You could always ask your friend if it's something he thinks you guys should/could talk about. I guess it really depends on how well both of you can control your emotions. It could be a minefield, then again it could also be a valuable learning experience for both of you.

A couple of years ago an (online) Israeli friend of mine came to NYC and we met up with a third friend (a half Puerto Rican, half Dominican Catholic) in Manhattan. We had a blast talking about our work as designers the forum we belonged to. We were actually comforted by each other's presence—she is a convert also (Orthodox), so we had a shared understanding of what it's like to be new to a religion as well as the whole hair covering, modest dress thing.

She's a staunch Zionist, but we didn't discuss that (mostly because there was no time). I wouldn't have been afraid to do so though, because even if she inadvertently said something that upset me, it would be in the context of my knowledge that she is a decent, kind-hearted person (ergo I would probably just calmly but honestly tell her how I felt and try to work it out from there, get more of an explanation, whatever).

Let me know if you ever get to S. Florida. I'll treat you to a cup of Cafe Cubano :) and we can gossip about LGF... or Israel... LOL

Deal! Ditto if you're ever in the NYC area.

//Okay, I'm gonna stuff a sock in it now. ;o)


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ROXY MUSIC - RE-MAKE/RE-MODEL LIVE at the APOLLO 2001 Cpl593h ROXY MUSIC - RE-MAKE/RE-MODEL LIVE AT THE APOLLO 2001Original by the first Roxy Music Album , the very first song , 1972lyrics below :I tried, but I could not find a wayLooking back, all I did was look awayNext ...
Thanos
1 hour, 11 minutes ago
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“Midnight Picnic Near the Ocean” - Forest BaileyRecorded live at Snaggy Mountain in Burnsville North Carolina. 24-bit Studio Master digital download available at: forestbaileymusic.com Buy/Listen:Spotify: open.spotify.comApple Music: music.apple.com Visit Forest BaileyWebsite: forestbaileymusic.comInstagram: instagram.comFacebook: facebook.comYouTube: youtube.comBandsintown: bandsintown.com
Thanos
1 day, 7 hours ago
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#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 191014After three weeks of meh pictures and invisible progress, we were determined to have something to photograph today. And we were eager to start on the upper shelf. We were close, but not quite there, and we were determined! To ...
DangerMan
5 days, 8 hours ago
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Jack Klatt - Highway Lines (Live at Radio Heartland)Jack Klatt performs 'Highway Lines' from his 2019 album, 'It Ain't The Same,' live in the studio of Radio Heartland at The Current.
Thanos
1 week ago
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Brittany Howard Performing ‘13th Century Metal’ Live on KCRW Brittany Howard's solo debut album Jaime puts her powerhouse vocals on full display. It also takes us front and center to her very personal journey of loss, love and self-discovery. We're thrilled to welcome her back to KCRW to ...
Thanos
1 week, 2 days ago
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(15) Rodrigo Y Gabriela - Electric Soul (Live on KEXP) kexp.org presents Rodrigo y Gabriela performing "Electric Soul" live in the KEXP gathering space. Recorded July 14, 2019. Host: Stevie ZoomAudio Engineers: Kessiah Gordon & Kevin SuggsAudio Mixer: David MarchantCameras: Jim Beckmann, Alaia D'Alessandro, Luke Knecht & Justin WIlmoreEditor: ...
Thanos
1 week, 2 days ago
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Fresh Air (Remastered) Quicksilver Messenger Service Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group Fresh Air (Remastered) · Quicksilver Messenger Service Classic Masters ℗ 2001 Capitol Records, LLC Released on: 2007-01-01 Producer: Quicksilver Messenger ServiceStudio Personnel, Mastering Engineer: Robert VosgienComposer: Jesse Oris Farrow Auto-generated by YouTube. ...
Thanos
1 week, 2 days ago
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Jon Anderson - Song of SevenFrom the 1980 album "Song of Seven".
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
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#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 191006 Today we have to take a few steps back in explanation. The pond is going to have three levels. Sort of an upside down ziggurat. The lowest level, in the center we call ‘the channel’. After the liner is ...
DangerMan
1 week, 6 days ago
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Jon Anderson - Change We MustFrom the 1994 album "Change We Must".
Thanos
2 weeks, 1 day ago
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