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1 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:20:30am

I also think Obama is a conservative in how he views the separation of powers. He wants Congress to do it's fucking job. The legislature is supposed to legislate. The president, any president, has enough to do running his branch of the government. I think the president should be clear on what he absolutely will not sign into law, but beyond that it's up to the 535 knuckleheads in Congress to write our laws. I personally, am sick of Congress and it's inability to function because they are always waiting for the president to fall on his sword first and acting like they can't move forward without his say so. There are two leaders in Congress, the majority and the minority. Let them led for once.

2 Randy W. Weeks  Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:34:44am

All you needed to do is read "Audacity of Hope" to know that he's a pragmatist. (I read it twice and it's actually what jump-started my return to sanity.)

I have no doubt he wishes he could do more progressive things, but in today's political climate it's almost suicide for him to even promote progressive ideas. It's going to be a long road back from this right-wing fantasy land we're currently living in.

3 researchok  Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:35:42am

Ice is right to note on many issues, Obama is a pragmatist- and that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Obama has been spot on as it relates to national security and most of his foreign policy is on target as well.

That he hasn't appeased all of his base isn't news. No president appeases all of his base all of the time because presidents make decisions on information we don't have. Gitmo wasn't kept open because Obama wanted to piss off his base, nor were Bush administration national security programs kept in place because Obama is throwing progressives under the bus.

It is the presidents responsibility to do what is best for the nation, not what is best for the base.

Further, the office is bigger than it's occupant. Mr Obama, like his predecessors, is president to all Americans, not just his base. It is not his job to force upon America the wishes of his base. It is his job to lead the entire nation.

Anthony Weiner is dead wrong- Mr Obama has displayed great courage and sound political and moral values. It is Mr Weiner who is pandering.

4 theheat  Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:46:43am
Weiner told a group of journalists and bloggers on Capitol Hill that the Republican leader has a tough job of trying to hold "a coalition of crazies and completely crazies together."

Ouch. But delicious, nonetheless.

saying, 'Here are the things: Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, environment and education. We're not cutting those. Those are off the table. That's non-negotiable.'

Hell yes. It's time to stop being so damned squishy about everything, set some hard and fast rules, and grow some balls about the party's core values. It doesn't matter if the POTUS is on board with all of it or part of it, but the party supposedly represents the people, and they owe it to the people to stop being so wormy, and stop letting an acknowledged party of crazies to so easily derail them.

5 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:55:55am

re: #3 researchok


Anthony Weiner is dead wrong- Mr Obama has displayed great courage and sound political and moral values. It is Mr Weiner who is pandering.

I think what Weiner means by saying he lacks values is that Obama and the current Democratic Party don't agree on what their shared values are. You must admit Republicans are more cohesive than everyone who flies under the D-voting flag, I think.

6 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:56:36am

re: #4 theheat

Ouch. But delicious, nonetheless.

Hell yes. It's time to stop being so damned squishy about everything, set some hard and fast rules, and grow some balls about the party's core values. It doesn't matter if the POTUS is on board with all of it or part of it, but the party supposedly represents the people, and they owe it to the people to stop being so wormy, and stop letting an acknowledged party of crazies to so easily derail them.

This. Yep.

7 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:59:32am

re: #1 moderatelyradicalliberal

I also think Obama is a conservative in how he views the separation of powers.

Have to agree wholeheartedly with your whole comment, but this stands out because many progressives and civil libertarians did not expect Obama to continue to take the Bush line with respect to the expansion of powers of the executive branch that happened under Bush. But of course he has. That's the nature of power, we always think we or our side would only ever use it for good. It's only when the other bastards are in charge that we start worrying.

8 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Mar 17, 2011 11:47:25am

re: #7 iceweasel

Have to agree wholeheartedly with your whole comment, but this stands out because many progressives and civil libertarians did not expect Obama to continue to take the Bush line with respect to the expansion of powers of the executive branch that happened under Bush. But of course he has. That's the nature of power, we always think we or our side would only ever use it for good. It's only when the other bastards are in charge that we start worrying.

This is true, but I also think some on the left are upset with him for the ways in which he hasn't acted like Bush, but they want him too. Remember the DADT fight? They wanted an executive order, whether or not it was possible or politically smart. The president believed it was bad law and that it should be done away with by the institution that created it in the first place. His way, in the end worked. The same with Gitmo. I want Gitmo gone closed, but the detainees have to be moved somewhere and Congress won't approve of it or give him the money. This is something that his critics on the left seem to overlook or don't understand (John Stewart, I'm looking at you). When people don't understand the separation for powers and the limits they put on a president, they get mad about things that aren't completely in his control. President Obama has a right flank that thinks his a power mad dictator and a left flank that doesn't think he's dictatorial enough. Each could be cured with a little civics education. Admittedly, I'd be more upset with Obama over some things it I hadn't been required to take a law and a politics and policy class for my degree. I have a better perspective on what he can and can't do in this political environment.

9 researchok  Thu, Mar 17, 2011 11:49:30am

re: #5 iceweasel

I think what Weiner means by saying he lacks values is that Obama and the current Democratic Party don't agree on what their shared values are. You must admit Republicans are more cohesive than everyone who flies under the D-voting flag, I think.

You have no idea how wrong I wish you were on that call.

10 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Mar 17, 2011 11:55:21am

re: #8 moderatelyradicalliberal

The same with Gitmo. I want Gitmo gone closed, but the detainees have to be moved somewhere and Congress won't approve of it or give him the money. This is something that his critics on the left seem to overlook or don't understand (John Stewart, I'm looking at you). When people don't understand the separation for powers and the limits they put on a president, they get mad about things that aren't completely in his control. President Obama has a right flank that thinks his a power mad dictator and a left flank that doesn't think he's dictatorial enough. Each could be cured with a little civics education. Admittedly, I'd be more upset with Obama over some things it I hadn't been required to take a law and a politics and policy class for my degree. I have a better perspective on what he can and can't do in this political environment.

I agree with you, but closing Gitmo was always only going to be a symbolic gesture. Although Obama signed orders immediately after inauguration to end the Enhanced Interrogation Techniques officially, and to stop CIA black sites, those sites are simply being moved (as Bush had quietly started to move them) to JSOC for administration.

11 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Mar 17, 2011 11:58:46am

re: #5 iceweasel

I think what Weiner means by saying he lacks values is that Obama and the current Democratic Party don't agree on what their shared values are. You must admit Republicans are more cohesive than everyone who flies under the D-voting flag, I think.

This has always been true about the Democratic Party. Not an organized party, or something like that. ;p

12 Bob Levin  Thu, Mar 17, 2011 12:27:30pm

re: #11 moderatelyradicalliberal

The New Deal coalition was very tight. And when the labor movement in America was strong, also a tight bunch. Both parties were in agreement regarding the spreading of the Russian sphere of influence, but the Democrats were never into the PR glitz of it, as were Joe McCarthy and Richard Nixon. Also, I do not recall any Democrats trying to win elections by red-baiting, as Nixon was prone to do.

It all began to fall apart over the Vietnam war and the 1968 Chicago convention.

13 Bob Levin  Thu, Mar 17, 2011 12:41:27pm

It just occurred to me, that the Democratic Party began to fall into chaos when there was a strong ideological push from inside the party--when it tried to become a party of rather strict values and positions. This was most evident in 1972.


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