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1 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 21, 2011 1:48:33pm

Judeo Christian worldview in Hope, Arkansas? Really? How many Jews exactly did he know in Hope, Arkansas? When did he first meet a Jew? I can't even find a temple there.

I lived in Michigan City, IN for 4 years where people had no idea what a Jew was. That was the 70s, not the "enlightened 50's". At age 16, I was checked for horns.

Huck was giving a talk to Christian students. What would have been more appropriate would be to tie in Christian theology, living a moral and righteous life, with whatever work you decide to do. Not telling people that Christians should run the country (world?). I thought they tried that already, for some 300 odd years, with the Crusades. Might have been pretty groovy for the Christians. The Jews, not so much.

He then goes on about the notion of being created equal and that the "idea did not exist at the time of the founding of the U.S."

Let's not go back 270 years into ancient history. Did he remind the students that up until 60 years ago, blacks were still being beaten, tortured, humiliated, murdered, made to eat at separate restaurants, not sit on buses with whites, not have jobs with whites, not drink from the same fountains as whites, etc. etc. Or that the KKK was founded under "good Christian values"?

What was it like in Hope, Arkansas for a black man in 1950, Huck? What a grand time it was (barf).

This guy really tweaks my knickers.

2 shutdown  Mon, Mar 21, 2011 2:09:57pm

You said everything I wanted to say. Thank you. All I would add is that Judaic academic tradition is to explore nature by engaging in scientific enterprises and research. The religious and academic directive of Tikkun Olam is related by many modern Orthodox Jews to a "repairing" of the world to include medical and social progress. Curing and healing the ill is an essential element of Judaic tradition, and it has not been interpreted as precluding science and relying on Divine intervention.

And I could tell you stories about growing up Jewish in a hostile environment....

3 HappyWarrior  Mon, Mar 21, 2011 2:19:10pm

Huckabee wants to talk about equality. Then maybe he should support the rights of gays to marry or the right of others to not be Christian without fear of harassment.

4 calochortus  Mon, Mar 21, 2011 2:50:21pm

He's starting with a false premise, that we are "ashamed" of our Judeo-Christian heritage. That is silly on a number of different levels.

First, the nation has some serious Judeo-Christian roots, but was not founded as a Christian (or Judeo-Christian) nation.

Second, I'm not religious and I'm not ashamed of our heritage, why would anyone else be ashamed? I'd like to think we've learned something in the last 50 years, to say nothing of the last 250 years, though.

Third, the fact that he grew up in a town where everyone went to church doesn't mean that they were living in accordance with Christian principles Monday through Saturday. As a child he did not have an adult worldview or knowledge. What he might be ashamed of is the local view about his black brothers and sisters in Christ. I'll bet equality wasn't being preached from the pulpit in Hope in 1950.

Pander, pander, pander.

5 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Mar 21, 2011 3:13:00pm

everyone equal except my brand of protestant which is the GATEKEEPER OF THE BIBLE@!!!

we allow you to be sorta equal to us! You know, under our biblical bible!

GOD these hicks are a riot, they just never stop. Heritage is becoming one of those right-wing nativist code-words, like "family"

You know, OUR heritage! Not the icky brown heritage. They're invaders!

6 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Mar 21, 2011 3:14:26pm

re: #4 calochortus

He's starting with a false premise, that we are "ashamed" of our Judeo-Christian heritage. That is silly on a number of different levels.

First, the nation has some serious Judeo-Christian roots, but was not founded as a Christian (or Judeo-Christian) nation.

Second, I'm not religious and I'm not ashamed of our heritage, why would anyone else be ashamed? I'd like to think we've learned something in the last 50 years, to say nothing of the last 250 years, though.

Third, the fact that he grew up in a town where everyone went to church doesn't mean that they were living in accordance with Christian principles Monday through Saturday. As a child he did not have an adult worldview or knowledge. What he might be ashamed of is the local view about his black brothers and sisters in Christ. I'll bet equality wasn't being preached from the pulpit in Hope in 1950.

Pander, pander, pander.


basically, America is for white Protestant Christians with a couple jews here and there so they can hide behind the 'judeo' and pretend they're not neo-klan, and that's it :D

everyone else? get in steerage, brown man!

7 Michael McBacon  Mon, Mar 21, 2011 3:32:26pm

I'm frequently reminded of this quote:

"When you have a government that prefers a certain moral code derived from a certain religion and that moral code turns into legislation to suit one certain religious point of view and if that code happens to be very very right-wing almost toward Atilla the Hun.”
-Frank Zappa on the CNN program, 'Crossfire' (1986)

8 SpaceJesus  Mon, Mar 21, 2011 3:50:01pm

I wonder how many squirrel recipes you would learn in Mr. Huckabees Home Economics Class

9 dragonfire1981  Mon, Mar 21, 2011 5:12:48pm

I wonder, how often do Jews use the term "Judeo-Christian" ?

10 Lidane  Mon, Mar 21, 2011 6:43:59pm

re: #9 dragonfire1981

I wonder, how often do Jews use the term "Judeo-Christian" ?

They don't. It's just a fundie way to make their garbage seem religiously inclusive when it's really not.

11 theheat  Mon, Mar 21, 2011 7:03:35pm

re: #10 Lidane

If Jews - or any other religious groups besides the Christians - were trying to cram their scripture and religion into the education system, there'd be an epic meltdown.

This is nothing but a transparent push for a Christian theocracy. And whenever their narrow minded super precious bullshit gets tossed by the wayside without the unchallenged reverence they feel it deserves, they go into whiny bitch mode.

12 nines09  Mon, Mar 21, 2011 7:27:21pm

Actually, I'm ashamed of people like Huckabee who do no justice to anyone but the justice that would come from a

certain

theocracy. The part that disgusts me with people like Huckabee is the willingness and outright twisting of our Constitution they would abide to advance the deed. We are all Gods' children. Except for you, and you, and you in the back. Huck? Some things are always wrong.
Just another brick in the wall. Absolute Tool.

13 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 21, 2011 8:00:19pm

re: #11 theheat

If Jews - or any other religious groups besides the Christians - were trying to cram their scripture and religion into the education system, there'd be an epic meltdown.

This is nothing but a transparent push for a Christian theocracy. And whenever their narrow minded super precious bullshit gets tossed by the wayside without the unchallenged reverence they feel it deserves, they go into whiny bitch mode.

I think he was speaking to a Christian audience so it would have been appropriate to bring religion into the conversation. Particularly that he was a pastor prior to getting into politics. It's the mixing of the two makes everyone cranky.

He spoke of "family values". Of course, you need a good set of morals to raise a happy family, yes? Then answer me this. Huck says,

Huckabee also said that one reason the federal government is in poor financial shape has to do with the fact that many in government never got the idea of what good government should be “at the family level.” ... “The first form of government most of encounter is the mother and father in the home,” Huckabee said Sunday.

Why doesn't he love the Obamas then? Or does it take just a bit more than family values to run a country?

14 Archangelus  Tue, Mar 22, 2011 5:14:31am

re: #9 dragonfire1981

I wonder, how often do Jews use the term "Judeo-Christian" ?

None that I know of, and I know plenty - and I definitely don't.

Seems clear to me that when some politicians use that term, what they really mean is only the "Christian" part of the expression; thinking that by throwing in the "Judeo" part, it makes it them seem less like the bible thumping theocratic bigots they actually are.

Modern politicians preaching and using "Judeo-Christian" = Klansman in disguise as far as I'm concerned, and I really wish someone would call them on this already (as I wish those in Dem leadership would finally grow a set).

How about they stop trying to take the country "back" (to the medieval age) and start trying to take the country forward?

15 sffilk  Tue, Mar 22, 2011 5:27:37am

re: #2 imp_62


And I could tell you stories about growing up Jewish in a hostile environment...

I'd like to hear your stories, if you'd be willing to impart them.

As for me, I didn't experience anti-Jewish sentiment until one day in 1969 when I had to walk from my home to Hebrew High School and was called some not-very-nice names while walking.

Also, do we all realize that using the term "Judeo-Christian" is more tantamount to "we have to mention the Jews even though they killed Jesus and we don't want to forgive them, but the mean nasty Jews will call us 'anti-Semites' if we don't and we don't want that word to be spread - that we actually hate Jews."

16 sffilk  Tue, Mar 22, 2011 5:30:01am

re: #3 HappyWarrior

Huckabee wants to talk about equality. Then maybe he should support the rights of gays to marry or the right of others to not be Christian without fear of harassment.

Allow me to post something I had read which might be of interest:

[Link: ebonypearl.livejournal.com...]

17 sffilk  Tue, Mar 22, 2011 5:32:08am

re: #9 dragonfire1981

I wonder, how often do Jews use the term "Judeo-Christian" ?

To put it simply, WE DON'T!

18 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 22, 2011 7:44:15am

re: #16 sffilk

Allow me to post something I had read which might be of interest:

[Link: ebonypearl.livejournal.com...]

The writer makes many good points. The idea that Christians are persecuted in this country is silly at best as well as degrading to Christians who actually are persecuted.

19 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 22, 2011 7:45:09am

Adding that having a nation accept gay marriage or legalized abortion isn't discrimination against Christians. That's nonsense and people like Huckabee know it but they sell those facts as proof of persecution.

20 sffilk  Tue, Mar 22, 2011 7:49:45am

This one should also be sent to Mr. Huckabee:

[Link: ebonypearl.livejournal.com...]

21 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 22, 2011 11:51:14am

re: #14 Archangelus

None that I know of, and I know plenty - and I definitely don't.

Seems clear to me that when some politicians use that term, what they really mean is only the "Christian" part of the expression; thinking that by throwing in the "Judeo" part, it makes it them seem less like the bible thumping theocratic bigots they actually are.

Modern politicians preaching and using "Judeo-Christian" = Klansman in disguise as far as I'm concerned, and I really wish someone would call them on this already (as I wish those in Dem leadership would finally grow a set).

How about they stop trying to take the country "back" (to the medieval age) and start trying to take the country forward?

In the best usage, "Judeo-Christian" is a way to include Jews and I don't necessarily think it's evil. What is weird the way Huck uses it, he came from a very racist city in a very racist state at a very racist time in this country. So talking about his childhood as a "Judeo-Christian" upbringing is ridiculous.

The usage really only makes sense (kinda sorta) if you're talking about history or describing a melting pot of people as "Judeo-Christian".

Of course, we don't say "Judeo-Christian-Islamic" do we? Well, we didn't discover Muslims until 9/11 so....

22 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 22, 2011 12:04:03pm

re: #15 sffilk

I'd like to hear your stories, if you'd be willing to impart them.

As for me, I didn't experience anti-Jewish sentiment until one day in 1969 when I had to walk from my home to Hebrew High School and was called some not-very-nice names while walking.

Also, do we all realize that using the term "Judeo-Christian" is more tantamount to "we have to mention the Jews even though they killed Jesus and we don't want to forgive them, but the mean nasty Jews will call us 'anti-Semites' if we don't and we don't want that word to be spread - that we actually hate Jews."

I had a lot of anti-Semitism in childhood. I couldn't go to the bus stop because one of the boys called me Christ Killer and threw rocks at me. I'd hide behind the bushes until I saw the bus coming and then make a mad dash up the street.

Another time my g/f and I were walking home from Sunday school and a group of boys (I think the same boy at the bus stop and his friends) chased us home calling us names. That happened a few times. Once they threw ice balls at our heads (blocks of ice packed in snow). That hurt a lot.

That was outside of Milwaukee, but it's everywhere.

In Indiana, my dad had a restaurant and one of the waitresses never met a Jew. We were both the same age, 16. One day, she was telling me her father was a preacher and that Jews were evil. I said, "Um, you know we're Jews, right?" Her mouth flew open. "No!" and then her eyes went straight to the top of my head. For the rest of the day, I would catch her staring at the back of my head. I knew what she was doing. She never came back to work after that day.

I'm much happier living in a big city where no one gives a shit who you are.

23 sffilk  Tue, Mar 22, 2011 12:30:52pm

I should have explained in my post that what happened to me happened in Nassau County, Long Island, NY. I lived only about 7 miles from the the Queens area of New York City.


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