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1 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 9:36:19am

Very interesting, thanks.

2 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 11:00:33am

Comparing the IRA to the islamist terror groups is foolish. Violence is the only thing those groups have in common. the motivations behind the IRA and the islamists could not be more different. And these smug euros who think they can use their experience with the IRA to help in the battle against islamonazis like the Iranians and radical Palestinians are fooling themselves, but they aren’t fooling the terrorists or some of us. The IRA was not out to wipe a country or a “people” off the face of the earth. The islamists? Not so much. The hubris is laughable.

3 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 12:10:26pm

re: #2 _RememberTonyC

Comparing the IRA to the islamist terror groups is foolish. Violence is the only thing those groups have in common. the motivations behind the IRA and the islamists could not be more different. And these smug euros who think they can use their experience with the IRA to help in the battle against islamonazis like the Iranians and radical Palestinians are fooling themselves, but they aren’t fooling the terrorists or some of us. The IRA was not out to wipe a country or a “people” off the face of the earth. The islamists? Not so much. The hubris is laughable.

If I’m understanding you, I agree.

Usually religious or racist ideology is in ingrained from birth. Whereas kids end up in gangs (usually) from neglected, dysfunctional or abusive home lives.

OTOH, they’ve found a way to turn their violence into something positive and inspiring, so I’m supportive.

4 pimasecede  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 12:37:24pm

re: #2 _RememberTonyC

northern ireland can very easily be compared to palestine. settlers, ghettos, terrorism on both sides, nasty foreign backers sending in money. you can piss off with your ‘smug euros’ nonsense aswell, this is england mate, and dont you forget it. the reality is that britain has had as much sustained terrorist violence as as any other western country and your belittling our experience as a contribution to the peace process is very insulting. the IRA and all those other horrible sectarian groups were terrorists. they used the same tactics as terrorists have used do used and will use in the future. you are just differentiating between ideologies which is of absolutely no use to anyone. one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter and all that. the only way we were able to get this peace process through is coming to term with the fact that both sides have legitimate grievances that have to be addressed. this is exactly what those “smug euros” have to bring to the table.

check it up man, im sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but ahmadinejad didnt actually say anything about wiping israel off of the map, there is no such persian phrase. what he actually said was something along the lines of “wipe this regime off the map”. im not trying to excuse the prick, he is a nasty holocaust denying turd, i just found that out yesterday. also think about it, hamas say they want to wipe israel off the map, and israel actually are wiping palestine off the map.

5 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 1:06:58pm

re: #3 marjoriemoon

If I’m understanding you, I agree.

Usually religious or racist ideology is in ingrained from birth. Whereas kids end up in gangs (usually) from neglected, dysfunctional or abusive home lives.

OTOH, they’ve found a way to turn their violence into something positive and inspiring, so I’m supportive.

I think you are understanding me quite well … And I agree with you.

6 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 1:12:16pm

re: #4 pimasecede

Anything you say, you smug little twit

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

7 Bob Levin  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 1:45:10pm

re: #4 pimasecede

im not trying to excuse the prick, he is a nasty holocaust denying turd, i just found that out yesterday.

You might want to pay a little more attention. It sounds like you have more opinion than fact going on there, such as….

also think about it, hamas say they want to wipe israel off the map, and israel actually are wiping palestine off the map.

Maybe reading a history book or two, turn off the BBC…you know how it goes.

8 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 1:49:11pm

re: #2 _RememberTonyC

Comparing the IRA to the islamist terror groups is foolish. Violence is the only thing those groups have in common.

Then call me foolish. I’d say that the specific propaganda, about who the enemy is and what to do with them, they are feeding their young people is the only thing they don’t have in common. The fundamentals are the same. They still feel that violence against innocent people is an acceptable way to affect political change.

9 Bob Levin  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 1:52:02pm

re: #2 _RememberTonyC

I know what you mean. I’m pretty convinced many of the extremists you are talking about, in their souls, are not really Muslims. I’m not going to grant validity to their disguise. In other words, first job in the fight, pull off the sheep’s clothing.

10 Bob Levin  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 1:53:52pm

re: #8 prononymous

I think what he meant was that the differences, and there are differences, change the possible solutions to the problem.

11 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 1:57:06pm

re: #10 Bob Levin

Sure, there are differences. And those differences can be “foolishly” compared. And there are similarities too. They are both terrorists, for example.

12 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 2:30:26pm

I never felt the IRA was committed to genocide. I do feel the Islamist terrorists have genocidal intentions. And that represents a BIG difference when it comes to conflict resolution and how to go about it.

13 Bob Levin  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 2:32:15pm

re: #11 prononymous

If we are talking about which adverb is best, I don’t think we’re really disagreeing. Yes, there are probably better adverbs.

14 Bob Levin  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 2:34:54pm

re: #12 _RememberTonyC

That’s true. Overlooking a genocidal intent greatly minimizes the situation—which shows just how serious the situation is. It doesn’t minimize the actions and horror of the IRA (who by the way, were trained by Yasser Arafat.)

15 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 2:43:14pm

re: #12 _RememberTonyC

I never felt the IRA was committed to genocide. I do feel the Islamist terrorists have genocidal intentions. And that represents a BIG difference when it comes to conflict resolution and how to go about it.

No they might not be for genocide specifically, they’d still would like to push the “others” off their island into the sea. And they are still indoctrinating their children that violence against civilians is appropriate. IMO, that is the root of the problem in both cases. They are teaching their children that there is an enemy and there is only one way to deal with them. As long as indoctrination continues, peace will never prevail.

16 Bob Levin  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 3:01:58pm

re: #15 prononymous

No they might not be for genocide specifically, they’d still would like to push the “others” off their island into the sea. And they are still indoctrinating their children that violence against civilians is appropriate.

I’ll admit I haven’t followed this very closely—so my opinions about the matter are etched in granite.

Seriously, I was under the impression that everything was copacetic up there. Do you have any citations?

17 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 3:09:04pm

re: #15 prononymous

No they might not be for genocide specifically, they’d still would like to push the “others” off their island into the sea. And they are still indoctrinating their children that violence against civilians is appropriate. IMO, that is the root of the problem in both cases. They are teaching their children that there is an enemy and there is only one way to deal with them. As long as indoctrination continues, peace will never prevail.

i agree that indoctrination and incitement are enormous problems in both cases.

18 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 3:13:11pm

re: #16 Bob Levin

The Real IRA bombed a barracks in 2009, killing 2 British Soldiers.

19 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 3:47:08pm

re: #16 Bob Levin

Seriously, I was under the impression that everything was copacetic up there. Do you have any citations?

Terror continues in Northern Ireland, as recently as Saturday. On saturday a 25 year old police constable, Ronan Kerr, was killed in a car bomb.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

20 Bob Levin  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 5:39:48pm

Occasionally I read of someone in England saying that they have sufficiently dealt with that problem. I now know to take that with a grain of salt. I’m sorry to hear that they are still suffering.

21 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 6:02:02pm

re: #20 Bob Levin

It is slowly getting better. Improving economics and exposure to a greater diversity of people and opinions certainly helps. I think it would help in palestine as well. But without eliminating the underlying indoctrination problem, progress will be slow in either case.

That’s the fundamental problem there, IMO. I don’t exactly agree with everything Israel has done. But as long as palestinians are feeding their children (and each other, for that matter) such sick propaganda, discussing anything Israel does or doesn’t do is absolutely pointless and futile.

22 Bob Levin  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 6:54:17pm

re: #21 prononymous

I think what Tony C (and by the way, I do remember Conigliaro) was hinting at is that there is a level of malevolence with the PA and Hamas that is incomprehensible to the Western mind—to the point that Western diplomacy is in a state of denial.

As is the case with all dysfunctional denial, the psychological twists just keep getting tighter, until we are at a point in history, again, where Jews are abstract numbers without the same rights granted easily to all other people and cultures in the world. The denial is so tight and twisted that words take on opposite meaning, cause and effect is turned upside down, and all efforts to help the situation make it worse.

In other words, there is bad, and there is bad. And this situation is bad.


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