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1 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 9:46:21am

This isn’t actually a problem, James. Nobody but Buck is under the impression that it doesn’t limit collective bargaining on all other workplace issues.

2 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 9:49:08am

re: #1 Obdicut

This isn’t actually a problem, James. Nobody but Buck is under the impression that it doesn’t limit collective bargaining on all other workplace issues.

I’m just trying to play devil’s advocate and see what people have to say…

3 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 9:49:24am

re: #2 jamesfirecat

I’m just trying to play devil’s advocate and see what people have to say…

Why?

4 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 9:53:28am

re: #3 Obdicut

Why?

I like to “stoneman” (or whatever you call it when you do the opposite of “strawman” is there a phrase for that?) my opponent’s arguments, and give them all possible benefit of the doubt.

5 Buck  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 12:52:13pm
This bill also prohibits municipal employers from collectively bargaining with municipal general employees in matters that are not permitted under MERA.

OK so if the ONLY bargaining position that municipal employers (the governments) can discuss is BASE WAGES (you keep leaving out the word base), why would the bill specifically mention that they are prohibited from collectively bargaining in matters that are not permitted under the Municipal Employment Relations Act (MERA)?

I know this is dry, BUT:

SECTION 265. 111.83 (1) of the statutes is amended to read:

111.83 (1) Except as provided in subs. sub. (5) and (5m), a representative
chosen for the purposes of collective bargaining by a majority of the employees voting in a collective bargaining unit shall be the exclusive representative of all of the employees in such unit for the purposes of collective bargaining. Any individual employee, or any minority group of employees in any collective bargaining unit, may present grievances to the employer in person, or through representatives of their own choosing, and the employer shall confer with said employee or group of employees in relation thereto if the majority representative has been afforded the opportunity to be present at the conference. Any adjustment resulting from such a conference may not be inconsistent with the conditions of employment established by the majority representative and the employer.

There is a lot more of this kind of stuff in the bill, but it would be a huge job to round it all up and present it here.

I just don’t have the time.

Basically this says that an adjustment to the conditions of employment CAN be initiated by employees, or a collective bargaining unit (representatives of their own choosing).

Of course it doesn’t say that it has to be accepted. BUT there is a way to bring issues OTHER THAN BASE WAGES to be part of the conditions of employment.

6 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 1:00:11pm

re: #5 Buck

OK so if the ONLY bargaining position that municipal employers (the governments) can discuss is BASE WAGES (you keep leaving out the word base), why would the bill specifically mention that they are prohibited from collectively bargaining in matters that are not permitted under the Municipal Employment Relations Act (MERA)?

I know this is dry, BUT:

SECTION 265. 111.83 (1) of the statutes is amended to read:

111.83 (1) Except as provided in subs. sub. (5) and (5m), a representative
chosen for the purposes of collective bargaining by a majority of the employees voting in a collective bargaining unit shall be the exclusive representative of all of the employees in such unit for the purposes of collective bargaining. Any individual employee, or any minority group of employees in any collective bargaining unit, may present grievances to the employer in person, or through representatives of their own choosing, and the employer shall confer with said employee or group of employees in relation thereto if the majority representative has been afforded the opportunity to be present at the conference. Any adjustment resulting from such a conference may not be inconsistent with the conditions of employment established by the majority representative and the employer.

There is a lot more of this kind of stuff in the bill, but it would be a huge job to round it all up and present it here.

I just don’t have the time.

Basically this says that an adjustment to the conditions of employment CAN be initiated by employees, or a collective bargaining unit (representatives of their own choosing).

Of course it doesn’t say that it has to be accepted. BUT there is a way to bring issues OTHER THAN BASE WAGES to be part of the conditions of employment.

Buck are their any lizards here whose judgment you feel exceeds your own in legal matters and thus would defer to if they told you that you were wrong?

7 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 1:02:41pm

re: #5 Buck

What it doesn’t say is that the employers have to do jack shit about that, though.

You are so nuts. Your position on this is literally that everyone else has gotten it wrong. Every news agency, everyone, even the Republicans themselves.

8 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 1:04:46pm

re: #5 Buck

OK so if the ONLY bargaining position that municipal employers (the governments) can discuss is BASE WAGES (you keep leaving out the word base), why would the bill specifically mention that they are prohibited from collectively bargaining in matters that are not permitted under the Municipal Employment Relations Act (MERA)?

I know this is dry, BUT:

SECTION 265. 111.83 (1) of the statutes is amended to read:

111.83 (1) Except as provided in subs. sub. (5) and (5m), a representative
chosen for the purposes of collective bargaining by a majority of the employees voting in a collective bargaining unit shall be the exclusive representative of all of the employees in such unit for the purposes of collective bargaining. Any individual employee, or any minority group of employees in any collective bargaining unit, may present grievances to the employer in person, or through representatives of their own choosing, and the employer shall confer with said employee or group of employees in relation thereto if the majority representative has been afforded the opportunity to be present at the conference. Any adjustment resulting from such a conference may not be inconsistent with the conditions of employment established by the majority representative and the employer.

There is a lot more of this kind of stuff in the bill, but it would be a huge job to round it all up and present it here.

I just don’t have the time.

Basically this says that an adjustment to the conditions of employment CAN be initiated by employees, or a collective bargaining unit (representatives of their own choosing).

Of course it doesn’t say that it has to be accepted. BUT there is a way to bring issues OTHER THAN BASE WAGES to be part of the conditions of employment.

Also Buck here is this..


“Under current law, University of Wisconsin (UW) System employees,
employees of the UW Hospitals and Clinics Authority, and certain home care and child care providers have the right to collectively bargain over wages, hours, and conditions of employment. This bill eliminates the rights of these employees to collectively bargain.”

That may not be all public sector employees but you can’t get much clearer than that about it eliminates some peoples rights to collectively bargain over hours, works conditions, and seniority does it?

9 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 1:21:02pm

I love that so often Buck’s defense of the GOP is that they’re not really doing what they’re loudly proclaiming that they’re doing.

10 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 7, 2011 1:38:30pm

re: #9 Obdicut

I love that so often Buck’s defense of the GOP is that they’re not really doing what they’re loudly proclaiming that they’re doing.

By the way Obdicut he posted some more stuff over on the Egypt thread not sure if you know or not…


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