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1 freetoken  Sun, Apr 10, 2011 7:41:21pm

Nice graphic.

I suspect the American "right wing" today is somewhat similar to that in 2004. Over the past seven years there have been changes, for the worse, but an analogy I like is to think of the current right wing flush of hatred as a kind of bush that has sprung from a seed planted long ago. The trigger for germination was the election of a black man with a supposedly muslim-sounding name. The plant is now in full bloom, and the fruit will be bitter.

2 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 10, 2011 8:05:32pm

What is cool about LGF is that there is room for all reasonable views. While Charles has focused his posts on mostly domestic political issues, he has created the LGF pages on the right side (coincidence?) of the screen where there are a variety of political views that are put into play by the posters. So if one of Charles' threads doesn't interest me, I just start my own. A sane, democratic forum fo all.

3 Lidane  Sun, Apr 10, 2011 8:13:29pm
It's clear to me reading the comments and pages from the posters here that the site is NOT properly classified as straight left wing or right wing but more of a melting pot of both sides.

That's how I see it.

I wasn't around here back in 2004, or even in 2008, since I registered about a month before Charles posted that he was parting with the right, so I don't know what this place was like back then. I don't even remember what drew me here, except that the 2008 election burned me out on places like DKos and I was noticing conservative posters that I knew at other blogs complaining that LGF was becoming too liberal for their tastes, so I started to lurk around. When a registration window opened, I jumped in.

Personally, I don't understand what they were complaining about. I like it here. It's a good mix of left and right and viewpoints on all sides. Sure, sometimes things get heated and people get snippy, but that's part and parcel of any blog. Echo chambers are boring. I'd rather have a good discussion.

4 Fenris  Sun, Apr 10, 2011 8:29:31pm

"Do you think the politics of LGF have changed and if so, has it been a change for the better?"

I'm honestly very torn there. While there have been some changes in opinion on Charles' part, e.g. global warming and torture, another part of me says that changing your mind on statements of fact as opposed to opinion do not necessarily affect one politically. Doesn't exactly help that I don't see politics as a dichotomy either, or in any limited number of dimensions. Just the way I was raised. I think one columnist that for the life of me I can't remember the name of said it best: that for the most part, while focus has changed, attitudes remain the same.

Whether my take is correct or not, I think changing one's mind is a good thing, depending on context. It's a show of maturity.

5 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 10, 2011 9:13:13pm

Dragonfire - I've had the same thought you did, that what has changed is the domestic and political landscape, not so much LGF. I tried to convince a few people of that, but alas, had little luck. What has changed is the type of folks who post here now, who I find to be much more left-leaning than the previous crop. Not sure what that says about my continuing presence here or exactly where I fit in, but that's not really important. I do agree with RememberTonyC:

re: #2 _RememberTonyC

What is cool about LGF is that there is room for all reasonable views. While Charles has focused his posts on mostly domestic political issues, he has created the LGF pages on the right side (coincidence?) of the screen where there are a variety of political views that are put into play by the posters. So if one of Charles' threads doesn't interest me, I just start my own. A sane, democratic forum fo all.

6 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 10, 2011 9:15:39pm

re: #3 Lidane

. . . Sure, sometimes things get heated and people get snippy, but that's part and parcel of any blog. Echo chambers are boring. I'd rather have a good discussion.

Amen, I like a good discussion as well.
Where I get turned off is when a discussion turns into an argument and somebody feels like they have to WIN IT to save face.

7 Kobyashi Maru  Sun, Apr 10, 2011 9:16:01pm

I have been a registered member since gosh who cares when and a lurker before then, maybe 5 years. if anything its appropriate to say that Charles and the site has moderated and broadened its' scope. I remember the majority of the posts being about the flying Imams and to get ready for the immediate Dhimmitudization of the USA.

I think that Charles realized that the problem was that the beliefs he holds are also shared by people who are ignorant (and proud of it) intolerant, reactionary and xenophobic to use a few terms. IMHO he has become an extremist in support of moderation which is a virtue, not a vice.

Pro free speech, freedom, pro human rights, against hypocrisy, tyranny, government doublespeak, pointing out the "bad craziness" of those who really need to be outed for their racist, homophobic, warmongering ways.

A patriot. Keep up the good work.

8 cat-tikvah  Sun, Apr 10, 2011 9:34:04pm

I got here through an interview Charles did with Dennis Prager. Since then, I've become a regular visitor here...and stopped listening to Prager. I never did agree with him politically but his show was interesting until it became the same tired right wing screeds over and over and over.

I feel like I am somewhere in the center, trying to understand without being accosted by the din of "for us or against us" politics. And I admire and respect Charles' stand on real bigotry and hatred (shrieking harpy, wingnuts and fanatics on either end) as opposed to manufactured grievances and offenses.

I, also, feel "at home" here whether or not I agree with comments.

And it's more than the occasional post that makes me laugh out loud. "Politics and lunatics and places in between" (can't remember who sang that).

9 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Apr 10, 2011 9:49:44pm

It's a place for honest discussion.
That is what I value at LGF.

10 philosophus invidius  Sun, Apr 10, 2011 9:54:45pm

My LGF history (not that anyone cares):

I was reading and posting here (occasionally) before there was a registration system. On some issues I am pretty "liberal" and others more moderate.

What I liked about LGF circa 2002 was that it was its attempt at honesty about Islamic extremism in the face of a certain kind of leftist denial. I certainly never considered it a Republican site. And I saw the defense of G. W. Bush during this period as small-c Burkean conservatism.

However, things changed around the 2004 campaign when there was more of an overt partisanship and even support of the "swiftboat" stories. I was disappointed in that change, but it was probably motivated by the same instinct to defend our President from all the irrational attacks on him. I do believe that that instinct was misdirected at Kerry.

Then, a few years later, I noticed some stories about the Vlaams Belang and related groups, which were very interesting to me, and began reading again. This was obviously the occasion on which it became apparent that many LGF readers were quite incapable of rational thought in defense of decency.

Eventually this evolved into the current site. It might seem like a huge shift from supporting G. W. Bush to supporting Obama. But I think there is an important continuity there too: namely supporting the President against various kinds of ridiculous attacks. But this time whatever partisanship there is seems (to me) to be completely justified. As Charles has repeatedly pointed out, the GOP leaders have done little to nothing to repudiate the anti-Obama extremism.

11 Bob Levin  Sun, Apr 10, 2011 10:07:38pm

For me, I first visited the site on the day of the Dan Rather scandal, created by this site--more accurately, exposed on this site.

What was stunning was that no other major news outlet discovered the link between a fraudulent memo and Microsoft word. And if they did, they didn't know what to do about it. In that respect, nothing has changed.

I want to know what is going on in the world, and this is the only site that I can simply read and not wonder what is the hidden agenda. There is no hidden agenda. I prefer skimming the big board every morning for information and accuracy, to, for instance, Google or Yahoo news.

If there has been a change, it would be most apparent to Charles, who had to rethink who his friends were and why. Most of the folks that Charles now highlights were linked here with reciprocal links on their sites. However, as he has done this re-examination, it's has been because of consistency of his standards rather and any change in his perspective.

The fact remains, that if Charles signs his name to something, you can believe it. Or if you disagree, you believe in the integrity of his process.

12 SpaceJesus  Sun, Apr 10, 2011 11:03:42pm

I'd say that with the banning of the fascists and the creationists, that LGF is pretty moderate compared to when I came here years ago. The day time is replete with the inane rantings of several conservative and "libertarian" commenters, but the evenings are pretty much normal around here these days.

13 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 4:23:52am

I came here after I read Charles posting on how the Right left him. I'd heard mixed things about LGF before that, and from what I've learned of LGF's history that's not surprising. Charles' post showed that he was a thoughtful man, and the mixed feelings showed this place was not an echo chamber, which showed I might learn something.

I don't regard myself as either liberal or conservative, but as humanist. My base definition of humanist is that of John Ralston Saul's: "An exaltation of freedom, but one limited by our need to exercise it as an integral part of nature and society." Sure, I'd like low taxes, but I'd also prefer our countries to be well cared for, and that costs money. A strong private sector creates wealth and opportunity, but if not watched carefully they can do more damage than a million Viking longships coming ashore. Government can help the public good, but can too easily become tyranny. The world is not about a limited dialectic but an unlimited movement.

After Charles' post, it seemed to me this would be a place where I could discuss politics/current events/philosophy without the bullying, shouting and posturing that's become too common these days. That hope turned out to be true, and I'm so glad it did.

14 Randall Gross  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 4:24:19am

I still look at myself at center right - what drove me from the ranks of conservatives was the willingness of the leadership to adopt populist lies and catechisms. To me that is the main difference - in the past I was able to justify knowing that there were some crazies in the party with the thought that the leadership was honest, forthright, and hewing a path of principle that they truly believed. It was their opponents wallowing in theater and dishonesty.

I had to step out of the party once the inmates took over the asylum and lies steadily became the norm since I am primarily an empiricist. I had to register democrat because right now their leadership is adult and we don't need xenophobic children who are unable to moderate their base impulses leading us in a world that will be 9 Billion people large in 39 short years.

There wasn't a real choice for me because it's the way I am - I had to leave the party, I had to join the other because the longer term matters more than the moment, utility has to outweigh hierarchy, and cooperation must overcome tribalism as we evolve or we will simply not survive very well in the future.

15 Randall Gross  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 4:38:06am

I see that I failed to answer the final question so please bear with me as I continue. PI is correct above - it was Charles, KT, and others noting the insidious nature of some of the far right groups and their inordinate influence that was the turning point 2004-2006, it was the awakening, and the start of the winnowing.

There are absolutely things I can talk about now which I would have been pilloried for incessantly and driven away for had I posted them five years ago. Not by Charles, but by other commenters and community members. So while I posted a multithread week long defense of gay marriage back in 2008, had I done so in 2006 somewhere along the path I would have been run off. That certainly is a change in the community itself, and prior to that point Charles didn't have the moderation tools needed to make it so.

16 dragonfire1981  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 7:54:05am

Interestingly, I am not so much pro-Obama as a I am anti-all the stupid crap the Right Wing throws at him constantly.

I differ greatly with the President in a number of areas and I can't say with absolute certainty I'd vote for him, however given the potential opposition, who knows?

17 avanti  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 8:33:29am

I came aboard shortly before Obama's election, full of hope, change and unicorns and wanted to believe both sides could have a intellectually honest discussion. As one of the few token lefties back then, it was a rough first year or so. I kept wondering if Charles would ban me when my Karma was pushing some big minus numbers, but he never did.

A few members told me to hang in there even though we disagreed and things got more civil after a few members were booted. When TFK got the boot, I lost the automatic down ding for saying good morning and eventually turned my Karma around. My only regret is we lost a lot of conservatives I enjoyed engaging with with because they went off the rails and were correctly banned.
Now I see small signs of the reverse, those conservatives that supporting me when I was in trouble are getting to down dings for simply presenting a conservative opinion.

18 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 8:42:51am
Now I see small signs of the reverse, those conservatives that supporting me when I was in trouble are getting to down dings for simply presenting a conservative opinion.

I think that happens when people see easily recognizable talking points without facts to back them up, or continued repetition of something that's already been debunked, oftentimes in the very same thread.

19 What, me worry?  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 8:50:20am

I found LGF around 2002-3 when I was searching for info on the second intifada. The blog was mostly about the Middle East and cycling at that time. Actually, Charles had a computer biz and the "webblog" was kind of a side thing attached to his business page.

Charles was always pretty liberal with a right lean on foreign policy. I would not have stayed as long as I did if I thought he was a rightwinger. Others chose not to see that because the main thrust of the blog was Middle East policy and Charles is a staunch supporter of Israel. His "liberalness" came out on most domestic topics, tho. Terry Schiavo was a big one. Creationism, another. So I think it was pretty obvious.

The rightwing posters took over the blog and it got out of hand. That was the problem in a nutshell, because of a lot of reasons people have discussed ad nauseum for years now. Charles took his blog back and started booting the troublemakers, pretty much from 2004 onward.

The big divide with the Right happened in 2007 when there was an anti-Jihad conference in Brussels to be attended by Geller and Spencer, then friends with Charles. Charles merely brought up the question about some attending groups with past links to Nazism. The stalkers very conveniently forget that bit of history. For weeks, Charles started asking who who these people were and then discovered they did, indeed, have neo-Nazi ties, including some of their leaders had been involved with modern day Hitler Youth groups. Anyway, long story longer, Geller and Spencer got pissed that Charles was making a deal about the Nazi connection with Valems Belang and the Swedish Democrat party. (The same thing we talk about today with the EDL, although I can't recall if the EDL was at the Brussel's conference in 2007. They may have been.)

Charles pleaded with Spencer and Geller not to go to the conference. He tried to enlighten them about the kind of people there, but they didn't care as long as they were against Muslims. Eventually it just became a huge fight, battle lines were drawn and the rest, as they say, is history.

20 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 9:18:54am

This is a really great post.

Thanks for putting it up.

I have always said that I am a moderate on the political spectrum. What that means to me is that I reject the dogmas of both the left and the right. I have no love of bite sized thinking and uninformed kneejerk responses, no matter what the source.

I think though that given just how crazy and unhinged the teabags (and their callous political masters are) are the discussion must focus more on the crazy antics of the right than on those of the left. The simple fact is that there is no far left equivalent of Fox news broadcasting propaganda 24/7 to a moor portion of the electorate. Worse, there is no left wing equivalent to the sorts of people who belive Fox in terms of numbers or influence.

What used to a matter of liberal and conservative is no longer really the issue. Conservatism some years ago meant looking for fiscal responsibility, smaller government (not no government programs) and a pragmatic and often muscular foreign policy. It has become a codification ofr fear, racism, anti-science anti- womanhood and an entire slew of medieval thinking, ignorance and arrogance on social wedge issues that have nothing to do with government. In principle, separation of church and state would render most modern "conservative" issues stillborn.

In other words, its a done deal already. Separation of church and state means the government can't impose religious values on someone else's bedroom. It means the government can't put them in someone else's uterus. It means the government can't reject science and scientific fact based on your particular reading of scripture. Someone who was a "true patriot" and had a sense of what has made this nation flourish would understand that, left or right.

This blog is more of an intellectual response (tempered with a great seal of frustration and sadness) to the fact that of the two parties, one has gone completely insane.

21 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 9:19:23am

re: #16 dragonfire1981

Interestingly, I am not so much pro-Obama as a I am anti-all the stupid crap the Right Wing throws at him constantly.

I differ greatly with the President in a number of areas and I can't say with absolute certainty I'd vote for him, however given the potential opposition, who knows?

I could have written that.

22 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 9:22:25am

Ohhh and PIMF

The simple fact is that there is no far left equivalent of Fox news broadcasting propaganda 24/7 to a major portion of the electorate. Worse, there is no left wing equivalent to the sorts of people who belive Fox in terms of numbers or influence.

23 What, me worry?  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 9:29:32am

One more thing. What really pisses me off about the "echo chamber" label, the nasty bullies who used to post here, now all banned thank goodness, never, ever wanted a difference of opinion. It was an echo chamber because of THEM.

Look at Blogmocracy and tell me which blog is the echo chamber LOL Count the number of liberals posting there! Go ahead. Can you find one?

Tell me again about echo chambers??

Those creepy bottom feeders were so nasty, one of them called me "Obama's pet Jew" when all I said was that Obama would win by a landslide. I never disparaged anyone. Not like the insulting little bit of spew from this troll. And people got pissed when he was called on his trolling in that thread.

I never trolled, ever, but was still treated with heaps of contempt. Why? Because I had a different VIEW.

Echo chamber my ass.

24 Big Steve  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 9:59:19am

Hum.....great post here. When I first started posting here the site was very much an anti Islam site. When the karma tracker started I believe at one point, being socially liberal, but fiscally conservative, I actually had a karma total once of -1000. Then the site went toward the middle and while I didn't change (too old for that), I suddenly got positive karma and even once or twice made the daily top 10 and I believe also once or twice got a Hat Tip from the Big Lizard. But the site has become even more, well maybe not liberal, but anti-conservative and I see that I am getting more and more negative karma points on occasion.

25 euphgeek  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 10:02:14am

Since everyone else is posting how they came to LGF, I might as well, too.

I came to LGF back in 2008 during the election campaign when the birther movement was still in its infancy. I heard that a right-wing, pro-McCain blog was taking an unequivocal stance against the ridiculous conspiracy theory. Even though I supported Obama, I respected Charles for taking that stance and lurked a while, seeing the blog become more and more pro-Obama after the election. I finally caught a registration window in February 2010 and have enjoyed reading and sometimes responding to the articles here.

26 euphgeek  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 10:12:59am

Oh, and in case anyone was wondering, I got my icon from a parody of a cartoon that tried unsuccessfully to insult Charles.

27 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 10:22:24am

re: #23 marjoriemoon

I never trolled, ever, but was still treated with heaps of contempt. Why? Because I had a different VIEW.

Exactly. On the few occasions I've read through old threads, it felt just like wading through the vitriol of places like freerepublic and hot air. And yet, these same people who heap contempt at anyone they perceive as "liberal" will scream like little babies when someone dares ask them for a simple fact to back up their beliefs.

Suffice it to say I would never have joined this site when posters like that ruled the roost, and things definitely improved when they were banned. I came here after a few lefty blogs mentioned the change in tone (i.e. how Charles was increasingly calling out the craziness of the modern right wing) and am continually amazed at the caliber of discussion here vs. everywhere else (I believe I once remarked that reading the comments of LGF and then the ones on places like Politico and CNN was akin to stepping out of a rose garden and falling face-first into a manure pile).

28 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 1:14:17pm

re: #23 marjoriemoon

Well those folks are the worst sorts of crazy losers. Their deranged obsession with this place only marks them as a special case of pathetic.For them, yes it is something about politics, but much more, it is personal. They simply can not stand that they were rejected for being crazy duoches. They want more than anything else in the whole world, for people from here to tearfully admit that they are right...

They want a tearful confession that yes, Charles needs them, that evolution didn't happen that AGW is a left wing hoax that Obama is using to make Kenya the dominant nation with his army of neo-black panther socialist cyborgs who want to kill their grannies in death panels. Most importantly though, they want to feel special for being the freaks they are and respected for being the obsessive losers they are. They want to fell they are important, and posting here was what made them feel important. Booted off of here (and rightfully so) they are simply adrift with the fact that they are kooks who no sane person would respect.

29 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 1:19:57pm

Ohh and how did I get here... I had been lurking for some time after I heard about the Dan Rather scandal. I was curious. Then there was finally a registration window. I have to say though that the conservative posters back in the day while obnoxious, were not as repulsive as they are right now. Fox and the folks like Rush have pushed the envelope so far that things people say now would have been shunned in any company of educated people only a few short years ago.

The insane breakdown of the right happened for all to see on these very pages as people we thought we knew sipped the cool aid.

30 Stanghazi  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 1:35:04pm

All I know is since being a part of LGF I've amazingly centralized my views. It's been very educating. Knowledge is power and all that, but listening to the other side's arguments is so enlightening. I remember the warning about reading blogs: be careful not to just hang where everyone thinks like you.

BUT, I hated LGF before the purge. I would read it, but damn, it was hard to get educated via post 1 out of 10. I will never forget the asshole racists that used to post comments.

Thanks Gus for tweeting this again.

31 CuriousLurker  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 1:39:35pm

Interesting to learn more about the history of LGF, especially for someone like me who just registered a little over a year ago.

To briefly reiterate my story:

I stumbled upon LGF a couple of times over the years. The first time I saw it, the name made me think it was some sort of sports site. Boy, was I ever wrong! I guess my visit(s) must've been at the height of the anti-Islam/Muslim hate fest. Needless to say, I left after about 30 seconds of reading.

I briefly came across LGF a few more times, however the distinctive name & logo stuck with me and I quickly learned to avoid it like the plague. I honestly don't know how some of you stayed here and were able to tolerate the abuse, but I'm glad you did as decency prevailed in the end.

I'm not sure how I ended up noticing that things had changed here, but I was probably Googling something related to Islam or Muslims and saw LGF search results that indicated a BIG change in tone. Maybe I saw the "Why I Parted Ways With The Right" article, I don't really remember, but this would have been around late 2009 or very early 2010.

Based on what I'd seen in the past I was extrememly leery, so I decided to lurk for a few months. There still seemed to be a few harsh voices around, but I noticed that Charles monitored & controlled things quite effectively & fairly, so I decided to take the plunge. After missing a few registration windows, I finally got in on April 3, 2011. I was heartened that I received a very warm welcome and have been quite happy here ever since.

It's kind of weird to me that so many on the conservative side have flounced since I've been here. Sure, tempers flare and scales & down-dings fly at times, but it is nothing, and I mean NOTHING compared to what I saw here years ago or what I've heard some of the liberals (and even moderate conservatives) talk about being called in the past.

I wouldn't call this a left-leaning blog. IMO, it's more of a moderate, centrist kind of place, though it can and does sometimes have a distinctly left- or right-leaning feel to it at certain times of the day (or when certain subjects are discussed). Sure, there are a few folks who lean farther left or right than most, but if I don't like someone I just ignore whatever bait they're chumming into the water.

32 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 1:42:59pm

re: #27 publicityStunted

Well I am glad you are here.

33 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 1:43:54pm

re: #31 CuriousLurker

And you have been an amazing addition too.

34 CuriousLurker  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 2:23:28pm

re: #5 reine.de.tout

What has changed is the type of folks who post here now, who I find to be much more left-leaning than the previous crop. Not sure what that says about my continuing presence here or exactly where I fit in, but that's not really important. I do agree with RememberTonyC:

Reine, if I can fit in, then surely you still fit in as well. {{reine}} ;o)

I see comments all the time that make me twitch. I'm also not oblivious to the content of some of the Pages, where there's an ever-present hawkish right-wing drumbeat about the myriad sins committed by Muslims around the world. The comments get pretty snarky sometimes, and it isn't at all unusual to see people jump to conclusions and assume the worst, but guess what? I'm not gonna let it ruin my day because I have plenty of other things to be thankful for.

There are plenty of decent folks here on both sides of the fence, so as long as the benefits outweigh the disadvantages for me, then I'm here for as long as Charles keeps the welcome mat rolled out.

35 Tigger2005  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 5:24:44pm

I came to LGF from being a regular on the Internet Infidels Discussion Board, although I mostly posted in the religion areas, not in politics. This was a year or so after 9/11 and I really couldn't STAND the politics section of that board, which is you might guess had an extreme liberal bias. It was taken as a given by the posters that 9/11 was all America's fault, and Bush Derangement Syndrome was rampant. Even in the religion section, many posters just couldn't resist the urge to regularly drop some snide anti-Bush comment that was usually completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

At some point, I came across a discussion of LGF. It was described as a "right wing hate site." I went and checked it out and quickly realized it was nothing of the kind. LGF actually shifted my politics back toward the Right for a while (or more accurately, reminded me that I still held some conservative views), up to the point where I actively campaigned for McCain/Palin.

But then after Obama's election the "Right" started going even more bananas than the Left at the very height of BDS. And it's quite apparent to me that this crazy Right is a MUCH greater danger to America and its Enlightenment values and principles than the Left has ever and probably will ever be. It's currently dominated by scientific ignoramuses who either do not understand separation of Church and State, or do understand it and are determined to tear it down anyway, even as they claim to support the Constitution.

Through it all LGF has remained a place where reason, rationality, commitment to facts and evidence, and compassion are paramount. Idiotarianism, fanaticism and blind unthinking ideology are not welcome here...you can be conservative, you can be liberal, you can be something in between, but whatever you are, you had better be prepared to defend your views with facts and logic.

36 CuriousLurker  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 7:26:02pm

re: #31 CuriousLurker

...After missing a few registration windows, I finally got in on April 3, 2011.

Um, no CL, you didn't just register 8 days ago, you nitwit. Try to pay attention when you type, m'kay?

37 reine.de.tout  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 7:47:45pm

re: #36 CuriousLurker

Um, no CL, you didn't just register 8 days ago, you nitwit. Try to pay attention when you type, m'kay?

ROFL.
But that aside, you're no nitwit. I'm just glad you're here. And no longer in mostly Lurking Mode.

38 dragonfire1981  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 7:51:55pm

I guess coming from a very Liberal place in Canada, I never really knew hardcore conservative views. I've often wondered if my feelings about this site would be different if I had been a conservative earlier on. I don't really know.

I think with regards to politics that the best approach is a two party system, not just so one can keep the other in check, but also so that two sides of the spectrum must come together and take a balanced approach at governing the people.

History shows that when a government goes entirely in one direction or the other, bad things follow. We see today what's happening in the increasingly extreme views and commentary on the far right. Think about what America would like right now if all the Democrats got up and left.

39 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 7:53:56pm

It's SUCH a pleasure, to have intelligent minds & have a discourse.
So, please be pleased!

40 What, me worry?  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 8:27:20pm

re: #31 CuriousLurker

About tolerating the abuse, the reason I did it was because of LGF/Charles. As the years went by, I identified with him as a "hawkish liberal". Whatever I didn't like, I didn't read. For a long time, I didn't even read the comments, just the articles. And whatever Charles "sins" were, he's a bigger man for fixing them.

I'd also mention, and others here will agree, that in the beginning it was more enlightened discussion and less insults and pissing contests.

Also, CL, I'm one of those with pretty set views on the Middle East conflict and I realize I may sound insensitive or hyperbolic. If I've ever insulted you, I never meant to. I'm thrilled you're here and you should know how much you add to the blog. And if you see me being insensitive or hyperbolic, I hope you'll feel comfy enough to tell me.

41 CuriousLurker  Mon, Apr 11, 2011 11:13:26pm

re: #40 marjoriemoon

About tolerating the abuse, the reason I did it was because of LGF/Charles. As the years went by, I identified with him as a "hawkish liberal". Whatever I didn't like, I didn't read. For a long time, I didn't even read the comments, just the articles. And whatever Charles "sins" were, he's a bigger man for fixing them.

I'd also mention, and others here will agree, that in the beginning it was more enlightened discussion and less insults and pissing contests.

I've gotta hand it to you & the others who've ridden out all the storms. Not too long after registering I went to archive.org and read some of the very early, immediately post-9/11 articles & comments and, you're right, they weren't anything like the later stuff. I'm not sure what Charles' sins were unless you're referring to how out of control the comments got, but I agree that his willingness to step up and correct the problem—even at the risk of losing thousands of members & creating countless enemies—speaks well of him.

Also, CL, I'm one of those with pretty set views on the Middle East conflict and I realize I may sound insensitive or hyperbolic. If I've ever insulted you, I never meant to. I'm thrilled you're here and you should know how much you add to the blog. And if you see me being insensitive or hyperbolic, I hope you'll feel comfy enough to tell me.

I know you get pretty emotional with the ME thing, but I also know you to be a caring & decent person, so even if you make me twitch a little bit sometimes, I just let it go because I understand that your anger is also pain. I figure we can always talk things through later when everyone is calmer, if necessary. You're good about correcting yourself though (I'm referring to the Page a week or so ago about rape), so I have no complaints.

As for having set views, that's your prerogative. It seems that most everyone involved in the conflict has set views, and I'm not sure that's helpful unless everyone intends to stay hunkered down in their trenches hating each other for the next 60 or 600 years.

Just to be clear, I am NOT saying Israel doesn't get a lot of shit, nor am I saying she shouldn't defend herself. As I've said before, I just find the whole situation confounding... annoyingly, impossibly complex and destructive and costly for everyone involved.

On a happier note, we were able to have a calm & reasonable discussion this weekend about That Subject™, thanks to KT bringing it up. I'm sorry you weren't here for it. Now let me stop with the tread-jacking... ;o)

42 Bob Levin  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 6:04:25am

re: #40 marjoriemoon

Me too CL.

43 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:40:26am

re: #42 Bob Levin

Me too CL.

Thank you, Bob. :)

44 Bob Levin  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 12:06:16pm

re: #43 CuriousLurker

You're welcome. Guess what, I've got a question for you. Not now, since we're all touchy feely right now. And it requires a thought experiment, a la Einstein. So, first chance we get. 'Kay?

45 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 12:34:10pm

re: #44 Bob Levin

LOL, yes, lets not harsh the warm & fuzzy buzz just yet. You've got yourself a deal.

46 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 2:30:29pm

re: #43 CuriousLurker

re: #44 Bob Levin

Ooo group hug! With Bob in the middle! Lucky Bob!

I don't have as much time for LGF as I used to. Inevitably when I sit down to type, something comes up and I have to dash off, but I hope I can join your discussion.

47 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 3:06:21pm

re: #46 marjoriemoon

re: #44 Bob Levin

Ooo group hug! With Bob in the middle! Lucky Bob!

LOL

I don't have as much time for LGF as I used to. Inevitably when I sit down to type, something comes up and I have to dash off, but I hope I can join your discussion.

You're always more than welcome to join in, mm.

As a matter of fact, it looks like the discussion is about to get underway on my most recent Page, so come on over when you have a minute.

48 Bob Levin  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 4:01:44pm

re: #46 marjoriemoon

re: #47 CuriousLurker

You two crazy kids. *blush*


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