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1 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:03:03am

Chag kasher ve'sameach.

My daughter just arrived from NY with 5 of her kids. Her two oldest sons and her husband are coming in on Sunday.

Because her family keeps some additional stringencies, I let her do all the cooking.

I got a bunch of Disney and National Geographic movies for the kids.

2 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:06:21am

re: #1 Alouette

Chag kasher ve'sameach.

My daughter just arrived from NY with 5 of her kids. Her two oldest sons and her husband are coming in on Sunday.

Because her family keeps some additional stringencies, I let her do all the cooking.

I got a bunch of Disney and National Geographic movies for the kids.

I hope you have the most wonderful holiday. I'm going up to Pittsburgh. It will be Miss S's first seder with my family.

3 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:08:31am

It's Friday, Friday
I so excited
Gonna get down
Gonna be with
My family
Friday, it's Friday

4 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:14:40am

re: #3 Alouette

It's Friday, Friday
I so excited
Gonna get down
Gonna be with
My family
Friday, it's Friday

Yeah.. I can't wait to see my family too.

5 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:38:25am

Lovely post :)

On Alouette's post the the other day, we were talking about weird things on the seder plate and I mentioned Rabbi Heschel. He was a champion in the cause of freedom, not only by his great mind, but by his grace.

A famous story about Heschel. After the Selma march, he was trying to find something to eat at the airport. A woman behind the lunch counter looked at him, his beard, his kippot and declared, "Well, I’ll be damned. My mother always told me there was a Santa Claus, and I didn’t believe her, until now.” She told Heschel she had no food for him.

Heschel said, "Do you have water?" She said yes. "Do you have eggs?" She said yes. He told her boiled eggs would be just fine.

She responded, "Why should I?" He told her, "I did you a favor," The woman declared, "What favor did you do me?" He said to her, "I proved to you that there's a Santa Claus."

The woman laughed and fixed him a plate of food.

That is grace.

Heschel marched on Selma with Dr. King and many others. The iconic picture there (better in the wiki) shows the greats of our civil rights movement walking arm in arm. Rabbi Heschel, Reverend Ralph Abernathy, Dr. King, John Lewis. It is unfortunate that the Catholic nun was never identified and there is a priest directly behind her.

The power of media. This picture always makes me weepy to think of what we could become if we put hate behind us.

6 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:41:48am

re: #5 marjoriemoon

Lovely post :)

On Alouette's post the the other day, we were talking about weird things on the seder plate and I mentioned Rabbi Heschel. He was a champion in the cause of freedom, not only by his great mind, but by his grace.

A famous story about Heschel. After the Selma march, he was trying to find something to eat at the airport. A woman behind the lunch counter looked at him, his beard, his kippot and declared, "Well, I’ll be damned. My mother always told me there was a Santa Claus, and I didn’t believe her, until now.” She told Heschel she had no food for him.

Heschel said, "Do you have water?" She said yes. "Do you have eggs?" She said yes. He told her boiled eggs would be just fine.

She responded, "Why should I?" He told her, "I did you a favor," The woman declared, "What favor did you do me?" He said to her, "I proved to you that there's a Santa Claus."

The woman laughed and fixed him a plate of food.

That is grace.

Heschel marched on Selma with Dr. King and many others. The iconic picture there (better in the wiki) shows the greats of our civil rights movement walking arm in arm. Rabbi Heschel, Reverend Ralph Abernathy, Dr. King, John Lewis. It is unfortunate that the Catholic nun was never identified and there is a priest directly behind her.

The power of media. This picture always makes me weepy to think of what we could become if we put hate behind us.

Thank you so much.

And that is a great story. I love that picture too.

7 sffilk  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 9:52:07am

A chag kasher v'sameach to one and all as well.

For the past few years, I've been going for one seder to the house of someone who took over from hosting from a couple who had hosted the first seder I'd go to for something like 5 years. I had found out about that seder from contacting a local synagogue that was willing to place me with a family for one seder (most wouldn't) for one night and another for the second. Well, after 5 years, the couple who hosted the first seder decided to retire from seder-hosting, but referred me to another member of the congregation who has been my host for 4 of the last 5 years. She appreciates that I have more than average knowledge when it comes to Passover and Yiddishkeit (the group that gets together - over 30 - are not all Jewish and are an eclectic mix of people).

The meal is according to the Sephardic tradition, which is a whole lot tastier than what I'd grown up with, and with the mix of people, the conversation is a whole lot different than what I grew up with. It made for a lot of fun.

8 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:36:30am

Beautiful post! Almost made me want to convert to Judaism, and i'm an atheist!

9 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:56:27am

re: #7 sffilk

I have to say I particularly love Sephardic cuisine. I hope you have a wonderful holiday!

10 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 10:56:36am

re: #8 Cankles McCellulite

Beautiful post! Almost made me want to convert to Judaism, and i'm an atheist!

Thank you so much!

11 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 11:12:33am

re: #5 marjoriemoon

Lovely post :)

On Alouette's post the the other day, we were talking about weird things on the seder plate and I mentioned Rabbi Heschel. He was a champion in the cause of freedom, not only by his great mind, but by his grace.

A famous story about Heschel. After the Selma march, he was trying to find something to eat at the airport. A woman behind the lunch counter looked at him, his beard, his kippot and declared, "Well, I’ll be damned. My mother always told me there was a Santa Claus, and I didn’t believe her, until now.” She told Heschel she had no food for him.

Heschel said, "Do you have water?" She said yes. "Do you have eggs?" She said yes. He told her boiled eggs would be just fine.

She responded, "Why should I?" He told her, "I did you a favor," The woman declared, "What favor did you do me?" He said to her, "I proved to you that there's a Santa Claus."

The woman laughed and fixed him a plate of food.

That is grace.

Heschel marched on Selma with Dr. King and many others. The iconic picture there (better in the wiki) shows the greats of our civil rights movement walking arm in arm. Rabbi Heschel, Reverend Ralph Abernathy, Dr. King, John Lewis. It is unfortunate that the Catholic nun was never identified and there is a priest directly behind her.

The power of media. This picture always makes me weepy to think of what we could become if we put hate behind us.

Thanks for that story, and also thanks for debunking the "orange on a seder plate" myth. The story always smelled bogus to me, because the type of person who is "credited" with making that remark would have actually said "bread on a seder plate."

12 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 11:13:07am

re: #11 Alouette

Thanks for that story, and also thanks for debunking the "orange on a seder plate" myth. The story always smelled bogus to me, because the type of person who is "credited" with making that remark would have actually said "bread on a seder plate."

Good point.

13 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 11:13:15am

Marvelous post—thanks for the detailed explanation.

Bob brought up this exact story on one of my Pages the other day in relation to a discussion we were having about extremism and people being held captive. It's a rather long thread, but the mention of Passover & the Seder begins around comment #41, in response to some questions he'd asked me earlier. If you have time before you leave, I think you'll enjoy reading it.

May you have a wonderful holiday in remembrance of the blessings & responsibilities bestowed on your people by their hard won freedoms.

14 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 11:15:19am

re: #13 CuriousLurker

Marvelous post—thanks for the detailed explanation.

Bob brought up this exact story on one of my Pages the other day in relation to a discussion we were having about extremism and people being held captive. It's a rather long thread, but the mention of Passover & the Seder begins around comment #41, in response to some questions he'd asked me earlier. If you have time before you leave, I think you'll enjoy reading it.

May you have a wonderful holiday in remembrance of the blessings & responsibilities bestowed on your people by their hard won freedoms.

We love you CL! I'll try to give that a look, but I am running around finishing stuff up before Shaboos, doing last minute cleaning and checking this as a sanity break. Yes.. I took the day off :)

15 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 11:17:38am

re: #13 CuriousLurker

Marvelous post—thanks for the detailed explanation.

Bob brought up this exact story on one of my Pages the other day in relation to a discussion we were having about extremism and people being held captive. It's a rather long thread, but the mention of Passover & the Seder begins around comment #41, in response to some questions he'd asked me earlier. If you have time before you leave, I think you'll enjoy reading it.

May you have a wonderful holiday in remembrance of the blessings & responsibilities bestowed on your people by their hard won freedoms.

OK I had to look. That was a great exchange. Like I said. We really do love you CL.

16 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 11:25:13am

re: #14 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #15 LudwigVanQuixote

And I love y'all back. {{group hug!}} ;o)

Enjoy your time off and return to us safe & revitalized.

17 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 11:27:04am

We'll be drinking Bartenura Malvasia at our seder. It's a sparkling red wine, not too sweet, and only 5% alcohol. Much, much better than the "Hebrew cough syrup" that we used to chug back in the day.

18 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 11:56:20am

re: #17 Alouette

We'll be drinking Bartenura Malvasia at our seder. It's a sparkling red wine, not too sweet, and only 5% alcohol. Much, much better than the "Hebrew cough syrup" that we used to chug back in the day.

OMG.. Manischewitz... The horror the horror.

I had a great conversation with one of my dearest friends - who is an orthodox rabbi (black hat) BT.

He was over at my place and as you know I love to cook - so of course I was going to go all out and make him a really great meal since he was coming in from Israel, and I hadn't seen him for over a year.

I got a really nice bottle of Israeli wine. And I pointed out that once opened, we were going to have to kill it. He said that was no problem, but why did it *have* to be killed. Surely you could seal it up and put it in the fridge.

I asked him "Yaakov, what happens to wine when it oxidizes for too long?"

Wait! He said suddenly excited... "There is a reference to leaving wine out in the gemarra! It turns to vinegar!" Then he paused... "So doing what almost every Jew does means that at Shabbos for the blessing we are drinking vinegar... ohh."

"Yes. One way to counteract that a little is to make it sickeningly sweet." I said.

"So then a jug of Manischewitz is sweet vinegar with some alcohol in it."

"And cherry flavor!"

"That's nice wine (he said pointing to the cab sav I had)"

"I hope so. I liked it when I had it before."

"We have to kill it then."

The tragedy of Manischewitz is that poor Jews from Eastern Europe had no concept of good wine. They were just too poor, and it was not something one could waste. Where are you going to get good grapes in a dismal place like Poland or Russia? When they came here, they started making it here and they made wine with the idea of keeping a jug of it around for holiday blessings. As they became middle class in America, they never learned what good wine was. They had never had it or learned how to deal with it.

19 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 11:59:58am

MikeySDCA paged an article about Why Jews Drink Gaggingly Sweet Wine on Passover.

20 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:02:53pm

It's a tradition at our place, that we start off the seder nice and slow, which means that we talk for hours on end about the significance of karpas and the four rabbis in Bnei Brak, and then by the time we get to the real "meat" of the seder, the 10 plagues and all that good stuff, it's already late and we race through it. And then we always say "the second seder we'll spend more time on the second half" but the second night we race through it all!

It's been that way every year. So, anyone have some new insights on karpas and the four rabbis of Bnei Brak?

21 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:05:00pm

re: #19 Alouette

MikeySDCA paged an article about Why Jews Drink Gaggingly Sweet Wine on Passover.

That is a great article. For me, I take amazing pride in getting a good Israeli wine (and the best of them I will put up against anything from Europe) and thanking Hashem that we have come to a time and a place where we can drink the wines of our land in dignity and recapture the refinement we once had when we were kings.

I am not one who is ashamed of the shtetle or who thinks there is nothing to be learned from it. However, it is a blessing to be out of the shtetle. It is a blessing to have what was denied us for so long. It is a blessing to drink fine wine like a noble and not to grimace at sweet vinegar like a peasant.

22 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:11:00pm

re: #20 Alouette

It's a tradition at our place, that we start off the seder nice and slow, which means that we talk for hours on end about the significance of karpas and the four rabbis in Bnei Brak, and then by the time we get to the real "meat" of the seder, the 10 plagues and all that good stuff, it's already late and we race through it. And then we always say "the second seder we'll spend more time on the second half" but the second night we race through it all!

It's been that way every year. So, anyone have some new insights on karpas and the four rabbis of Bnei Brak?

The only insight I have is one I got from my Grandfather.

He said we weep twice at seder. Once is the Karpas and once is for the plagues that fell on the Egyptians.

The first time is to say that we feel the pain of our ancestors by symbolically eating tears. We internalize their suffering and see it as our own. This is easy to do with your own. This is the root of compassion.

The second time is so we do not rejoice over the suffering of the Egyptians, no matter how much we might feel they deserved the Din. This is hard to do with an enemy. This is the expression of compassion.

Compassion was the root of our father Abraham. The experience in Egypt crystallized the essence we take from him and forces us to keep it in our hearts and project it into the world.

23 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:13:19pm

re: #22 LudwigVanQuixote

The only insight I have is one I got from my Grandfather.

He said we weep twice at seder. Once is the Karpas and once is for the plagues that fell on the Egyptians.

The first time is to say that we feel the pain of our ancestors by symbolically eating tears. We internalize their suffering and see it as our own. This is easy to do with your own. This is the root of compassion.

The second time is so we do not rejoice over the suffering of the Egyptians, no matter how much we might feel they deserved the Din. This is hard to do with an enemy. This is the expression of compassion.

Compassion was the root of our father Abraham. The experience in Egypt crystallized the essence we take from him and forces us to keep it in our hearts and project it into the world.

Thanks for that! You get a candy!

24 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:14:38pm

re: #23 Alouette

Thanks for that! You get a candy!

Aww shucks....

25 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 12:56:10pm

re: #19 Alouette

Ohh and whatever you do, do not drink Mevushal wine if you can avoid it. I understand the stringencies... however, it is a process that takes a gorgeous wine and abuses it to mediocrity.

26 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 1:54:28pm

re: #25 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh and whatever you do, do not drink Mevushal wine if you can avoid it. I understand the stringencies... however, it is a process that takes a gorgeous wine and abuses it to mediocrity.

We are having a guest who is not Shomer Shabbos, so unfortunately the mevushal is a necessity.

27 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 1:55:58pm

My daughter brought a bunch of food with her, because we are not stringent enough. What the fuck is this?

Chicken schmaltz?

I am totally grossed out now. The kitchen is all hers.

28 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 2:49:28pm

re: #26 Alouette

We are having a guest who is not Shomer Shabbos, so unfortunately the mevushal is a necessity.

So if the wine wasn't mevushal would a non-Shabbos observing Jew like your guest somehow render non-mevushal wine unkosher? I'm not trying to be judgmental, I'm just curious about the rules and I don't really trust Wkipedia (nor is it very clear on the matter).

29 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:10:02pm

re: #28 CuriousLurker

So if the wine wasn't mevushal would a non-Shabbos observing Jew like your guest somehow render non-mevushal wine unkosher? I'm not trying to be judgmental, I'm just curious about the rules and I don't really trust Wkipedia (nor is it very clear on the matter).

To apply the ruling to a non-observant Jew is very strict. I really don't see how serving wine to a guest (if she does the handling of it) Jewish or not, will unkosher the bottle for everyone else even by the strictest interpretation. I also really don't see how a Jew could not be served in any case. Is he a secret member of the Ba'alim? If he is, why is he at your table in the first place?

No offence to Alouette. She is being very strict, but, it is her table.

To explain all the laws about kosher wine is a very long essay that I just don't have the time for right now.

The short form is that the laws for wine are amongst the most strict on the books. Even so, as with all laws of Kashrut, and in particular, the fences around those laws, there is the issue of strict, vs. very strict, vs. you have got to be kidding me. Everyone in the observant world has a different take on the borders of those categories for different issues.

One other point is that this is Pesach, and the added stringencies of Kosher for Pesach - which is an added set of rules on top of normal kashrut, makes everyone especially OCD (myself included). We just get OCD on different things.

30 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:11:32pm

re: #27 Alouette

My daughter brought a bunch of food with her, because we are not stringent enough. What the fuck is this?

I am totally grossed out now. The kitchen is all hers.

I am so sorry... Pesach OCD renders even the sweetest a tad insensitive.

31 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:16:47pm

re: #29 LudwigVanQuixote

To apply the ruling to a non-observant Jew is very strict. I really don't see how serving wine to a guest (if she does the handling of it) Jewish or not, will unkosher the bottle for everyone else even by the strictest interpretation. I also really don't see how a Jew could not be served in any case. Is he a secret member of the Ba'alim? If he is, why is he at your table in the first place?

No offence to Alouette. She is being very strict, but, it is her table.

To explain all the laws about kosher wine is a very long essay that I just don't have the time for right now.

The short form is that the laws for wine are amongst the most strict on the books. Even so, as with all laws of Kashrut, and in particular, the fences around those laws, there is the issue of strict, vs. very strict, vs. you have got to be kidding me. Everyone in the observant world has a different take on the borders of those categories for different issues.

One other point is that this is Pesach, and the added stringencies of Kosher for Pesach - which is an added set of rules on top of normal kashrut, makes everyone especially OCD (myself included). We just get OCD on different things.

Gotcha. I don't want to start any disagreement with my questions, besides I figured the answer probably wasn't simple anyway. Believe me when I say there are plenty of levels of OCD amongst Muslims with regard to halal as well, so I'll just leave it alone for now. Thanks for the quick overview though. :)

32 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:22:12pm

May you all have beautiful Holidays!

33 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:26:34pm

re: #31 CuriousLurker

Gotcha. I don't want to start any disagreement with my questions, besides I figured the answer probably wasn't simple anyway. Believe me when I say there are plenty of levels of OCD amongst Muslims with regard to halal as well, so I'll just leave it alone for now. Thanks for the quick overview though. :)

There is an old joke about this.

For you to get the joke, I need to explain that it is very hard to make kosher fish unkosher (assuming you don't cook it in pig blood or some such).

A very observant Jew died and went to Olam Haba (the world to come). In Olam Haba it is said there is a feast prepared for the righteous. Hashem will serve Roast ox and Leviathan from the deep.

The very pious man asked an angel who was serving the feast about the cuisine.

"Who schected the Ox?"

"Moshe rabbeinu."

"Who was supervising?"

"Hashem Himself!"

"Oh..." says the very pious man. I'll have the fish.

34 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:31:53pm

re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote

There is an old joke about this.

For you to get the joke, I need to explain that it is very hard to make kosher fish unkosher (assuming you don't cook it in pig blood or some such).

A very observant Jew died and went to Olam Haba (the world to come). In Olam Haba it is said there is a feast prepared for the righteous. Hashem will serve Roast ox and Leviathan from the deep.

The very pious man asked an angel who was serving the feast about the cuisine.

"Who schected the Ox?"

"Moshe rabbeinu."

"Who was supervising?"

"Hashem Himself!"

"Oh..." says the very pious man. I'll have the fish.

Look, Pesach is a time when everybody has their own mishugassim (batshit crazy customs) It's only for one week!

I'm munching on chocolate right now.

35 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:33:18pm

re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #34 Alouette

Hahahaha!

36 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:37:37pm

I love it that you all share your traditions. I like learning about them!

37 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 15, 2011 3:59:59pm

re: #36 Floral Giraffe

I love it that you all share your traditions. I like learning about them!

We love you Floral. And I have to check out. Have a great everything everybody!


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