Pages

Jump to bottom

14 comments

1 theheat  Sat, Apr 30, 2011 3:57:57pm

You'd think if the Constitution came from God, it would seem sinful to keep shitting all over it. Yet the people who invoke God at every opportunity are the ones that shit on it the most often.

Newt's pandering is Academy Award winning stuff. The NRA demands lots of love from panderers of paranoia. I expect a standing ovation from them.

2 elizajane  Sat, Apr 30, 2011 4:44:44pm

Sure, because God put a gun into Adam's hands and said, "Go forth and shoot thee many creatures, both of the land and of the sea, and of the air as well. And if your son Cain should desire to kill his brother Abel, then tell unto him that he should use the Gun, for it will make him mighty."

The disappearance of this verse from the Book of Genesis is the first known Liberal conspiracy. The Texas school board will make sure it is reinserted where it belongs.

3 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Sat, Apr 30, 2011 5:09:10pm
“You’re personally sovereign and you loan power to the state"


Hey that could be a great name for a new wingnut cologne:
Personally sovereign...a new scent for the straight white christian man who just doesn't give a shit //


Disclaimer: No offense intended towards all you straight white men who do give a shit.

4 celticdragon  Sat, Apr 30, 2011 5:30:46pm

This is one where I tend to disagree with my fellow Lizards.

Rights, as understood by our Founders who were steeped in Enlightenment philosophy, extend from Divine Providence or Nature.

They explicitly rejected the notion that a Prince or the State grants rights, because that same sovereign entity can also rescind them. Hence they would not be rights at all, but privileges that are subject to whim. This also underpinned the prosecution of Nazi war criminals, since the Nazi state usurped the natural rights of the people it persecuted.

Therefore, the right to worship God freely, the right to self defense, the right to peaceably assemble and seek redress of grievance, or to work gainfully (this list is far from exhaustive...), are all rights that belong to people whether or not any government recognizes them. Gingrich would have been on somewhat better footing if he had phrased his statement to be about self defense rather than about guns specifically. Even determined monarchists like Hobbes recognized that if a Sovereign cannot protect his or her people, then the bond between them is broken and the people may see to their own protection as they see fit.

5 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Sat, Apr 30, 2011 10:03:54pm

re: #4 celticdragon

I can also take that a step further with regards to the Iroquois confederacy that had a large influence on the enlightenment. The Iroquois confederacy is one of if not the oldest participatory democracy in the world and much older than the USA. Some differences were that women and children were also considered equal, politically as well as sexually and socially.
The Europeans saw the NA as receiving their rights not artificially but naturally.
With regards to Newt and some of the others that are bringing up our rights as they come from God, there is no way i believe that what you wrote is what they believe. I believe they mean our rights come directly from the Christian god.

6 RanchTooth  Sun, May 1, 2011 5:53:03am

/re: #4 celticdragon

Extremely well put. However, this doesn't even begin to cover the hypocrisy used by today's politicians to take away people's rights in the name of justice under their deity. I wish the Founding Fathers would smack some sense into them upon hearing that they use the same ideology to discriminate as they did to try and lay the ideas of liberty. I emphasize ideas because it would be silly not to mention the role of slavery in early America.

7 Hal_10000  Sun, May 1, 2011 11:05:24am

Sorry to disagree with you guys, but Gingrich is right. Which word in "endowed by their creator" is confusing you? Granted, that's life liberty and pursuit, but the concept is the same.

Leaving God out of it for the moment, the FF clearly thought that our rights were intrinsic and the verbiage of the Constitution reflects this. It's not "Congress shall give people freedom of speech" but "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech". Reagan said the same thing, in contrasting our system against the Soviets -- saying our Constitution is the people giving power to the government, not the government magnanimously granting us rights. And the 9th and 10th amendments clearly state that we have rights not listed in there. The whole abortion debate keys off the right to privacy -- one not explicitly granted.

This is a critical point when you're talking about habeas and other rights for terror suspects: that the right are intrinsic, not given to us by government.

8 Hal_10000  Sun, May 1, 2011 11:08:42am

In answer to Holmes question, yes -- all rights are given to us by God (or if you want to leave God out of it, intrinsic in our humanity). However, we can debate whether gay marriage or immigration is a right or not. But if you think they are, sure they have the same legitimacy.

9 RanchTooth  Sun, May 1, 2011 11:18:27am

re: #8 Hal_10000

In answer to Holmes question, yes -- all rights are given to us by God (or if you want to leave God out of it, intrinsic in our humanity). However, we can debate whether gay marriage or immigration is a right or not. But if you think they are, sure they have the same legitimacy.

Sorry, but gotta ding ya on that. Migration (or immigration) is probably THE most intrinsic thing I can think of. How do you think animals and people got here? Whether it was the Norse seeking Vinland or the Spanish/Portuguese seeking the New World, migration and seeking of new resources and opportunity is intrinsic to humans and all our creepy crawly animal ancestors. As for gay marriage, the monogamous pairing in animal species is extremely limited to a handful of species, and based on the rate of adultery in the world, I doubt I could selfishly place humans in that category. You can make whatever argument you want that homosexual pairings should not be recognized-but there is an equal parallel in heterosexual marriage (non-childbaring comes to mind). It is NOT God who denies homosexuals the right to marry, it is the government. It is NOT God who denies immigrants an opportunity to flourish (or fail), it is the government.

10 Gus  Sun, May 1, 2011 11:22:56am

re: #7 Hal_10000

Sorry to break the news to you but "endowed by their creator" is from the Declaration of Independence which is not a legal document by any means. Additionally, guns were invented well before the Declaration of Independence. Now, I'm no man of God at all but I can assure you of one thing. If there was a God he surely doesn't give a crap about Americans and their guns.

11 Obdicut  Sun, May 1, 2011 11:27:18am

re: #7 Hal_10000

Sorry to disagree with you guys, but Gingrich is right. Which word in "endowed by their creator" is confusing you? Granted, that's life liberty and pursuit, but the concept is the same.

The part where the creator can be the mindless universe.


Leaving God out of it for the moment, the FF clearly thought that our rights were intrinsic and the verbiage of the Constitution reflects this.

Everyone understands this.


This is a critical point when you're talking about habeas and other rights for terror suspects: that the right are intrinsic, not given to us by government.

They're not given by government. They're guaranteed by government. That is one of the main roles of government.

So it entirely depends what you mean by 'given'. The right to redress your government for grievances is intrinsic, but the only practical way it exists is for the government to provide it.

12 celticdragon  Sun, May 1, 2011 1:18:18pm

re: #11 Obdicut

So it entirely depends what you mean by 'given'. The right to redress your government for grievances is intrinsic, but the only practical way it exists is for the government to provide it.

I disagree. There are numerous examples of people seizing that very right even when the local government sought to stop them.

See:

Selma, Alabama; 1950's India; Egypt 2011, Tunisia 2011 and others

13 celticdragon  Sun, May 1, 2011 1:21:53pm

re: #10 Gus 802

Sorry to break the news to you but "endowed by their creator" is from the Declaration of Independence which is not a legal document by any means. Additionally, guns were invented well before the Declaration of Independence. Now, I'm no man of God at all but I can assure you of one thing. If there was a God he surely doesn't give a crap about Americans and their guns.

Actually, it served as the legal announcement of our separation from Great Britain. It serves little purpose in our own jurisprudence where day to day affairs are concerned, although some scholars believe it should be considered a preamble to the Constitution.

14 Obdicut  Sun, May 1, 2011 2:43:17pm

re: #12 celticdragon

I disagree. There are numerous examples of people seizing that very right even when the local government sought to stop them.

See:

Selma, Alabama; 1950's India; Egypt 2011, Tunisia 2011 and others

No, you're not understanding me. You can seize that right all day long, but the only way it's meaningful is if the government actually does anything in response to it.

In the abstract relationship between citizen and government, they absolutely have the right to petition that government. In the reality of the world, some governments actually recognize and service that right, and others do not.

If a government does not, it may fall, it may face revolt. But the citizens will still face the same situation; they still need a government to address for grievances. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights is an amazing document of personal liberty, but it is also a functional social contract; its very existence means that those writing it felt that these rights could not be held except by a common society providing for them and securing them-- a government.


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Gary Clark Jr. - Pearl Cadillac (Feat. Andra Day) [Official Audio]Official Audio for Gary Clark Jr.'s "Pearl Cadillac (Feat. Andra Day)" Stream Now At warnerr.ec For more info visit garyclarkjr.com
Thanos
8 hours, 48 minutes ago
Views: 137 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
Andrew Bird - Roma Fade (Live at the Palace Theatre for the Current) Andrew Bird performs "Roma Fade" from the 2016 album "Are You Serious?" at his September concert at the Palace Theatre in St. Paul. Watch the full concert: YouTube #indie #live #concert Band Members Andrew Bird - vocals, violin, guitar, ...
Thanos
19 hours, 35 minutes ago
Views: 178 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Silversun Pickups - Don’t Know Yet (Official Video) New album Widow's Weeds out now!Stream/grab a copy of Widow's Weeds: smarturl.it Silversun Pickups on tour now: silversunpickups.com Check out Brian's interview with Billboard here: billboard.com Director: Alan Del Rio OrtizExecutive Producer: Doug KlingerProducer: Kaytee RaeProduction Company: ReprobatesDirector of ...
Thanos
1 day, 20 hours ago
Views: 290 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
The Pretty Reckless - Champagne SupernovaThe Pretty Reckless perform their cover of Oasis' Champagne Supernova in the Radio 1 Live Lounge for Fearne Cotton
Thanos
1 day, 20 hours ago
Views: 298 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
The Expanse Season 4 - Official Trailer Discover what lies beyond the Ring Gate as the Rocinante lands on Ilus to find tensions at a full boil. Full season coming December 13, 2019 on Amazon Prime Video. » The Expanse returns 12/13. Watch the current season ...
Thanos
3 days, 2 hours ago
Views: 404 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Winter Solstice, Camelot Station, by John M. FordIn another lifetime, before I knew of LGF, I knew, via the net, Mike Ford. The ultimate author of many delights, he died much too young. Recently it was announced that his works would finally be republished slate.com and there ...
William Lewis
3 days, 8 hours ago
Views: 348 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Jersey City Gunman ‘Targeted’ Kosher Grocery Store in Attack: Mayor Mayor Steven Fulop tweeted Tuesday night that authorities came to that conclusion based on their ongoing investigation into the shootout that left three civilians, a detective, and the two suspects dead. “Based on our initial investigation (which is ongoing) ...
Thanos
3 days, 11 hours ago
Views: 464 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 5 • Share to Facebook
Trump Pays $2 Million to Resolve Case Over His Fraudulent Foundation As a presidential candidate in 2016, Donald Trump took great pride in boasting to the public that he doesn’t settle lawsuits. “I don’t settle cases,” the Republican bragged during a primary debate in March 2016. “I don’t do it ...
Thanos
3 days, 11 hours ago
Views: 499 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 191208We’ve mostly stopped counting; shovelfuls, cartloads, wheelbarrow runs, even bags. We do know we just laid 50 bags. It was the last bundle of bags in the original 500 bag order. That was our estimate - 500 bags.We actually 'only' ...
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)
4 days, 3 hours ago
Views: 380 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Orville Peck - Nothing Fades Like the Light [OFFICIAL VIDEO] "Nothing Fades Like The Light" by Orville Peck off Pony LP (Release Date: March 22, 2019 Sub Pop / Royal Mountain) TOUR DATES: orvillepeck.comSPOTIFY: open.spotify.com...PONY LP: smarturl.it WEBSITE: orvillepeck.comFACEBOOK: facebook.comINSTAGRAM: instagram.comTWITTER: @orvillepeck #OrvillePeck #NothingFadesLikeTheLight #Country #Pony #HBOsWatchmen VIDEO CREDITS ...
Thanos
4 days, 7 hours ago
Views: 518 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 3 • Share to Facebook