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1 jaunte  Mon, May 9, 2011 7:16:25pm
David W. Rasmussen, dean of the College of Social Sciences, defended the deal, initiated by an FSU graduate working for Koch. During the first round of hiring in 2009, Koch rejected nearly 60 percent of the faculty's suggestions but ultimately agreed on two candidates.


So much for hands-off donating.

2 freetoken  Mon, May 9, 2011 7:30:53pm

Given hard-core libertarians' aversion to public funding of education, this approach by Koch is probably seen as an incremental (small) step towards slowly undoing the influence of public funds in colleges. If, over time, the state of Florida cuts its higher education budget places like FSU will then need to increasingly rely on private donors, and Koch has set the precedent for what to expect in the future.

If FSU was a religious school having the prospective faculty pass an ideological test wouldn't be unusual. However, for a state funded public center of higher learning it really is worrisome.

3 garzooma  Mon, May 9, 2011 7:34:37pm

Turkey has been interfering this way for a while, most notably in
2006

Several board members of the Institute of Turkish Studies have resigned this summer, protesting the ouster of a board chairman who wrote that scholars should research, rather than avoid, what he characterized as an Armenian genocide.

Within weeks of writing about the matter in late 2006, Binghamton University professor Donald Quataert resigned from the board of governors, saying the Turkish ambassador to the United States told him he had angered some political leaders in Ankara and that they had threatened to revoke the institute's funding.

4 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Mon, May 9, 2011 7:46:57pm
Charles Muscatine (28 November 1920 – 12 March 2010) was an academic specialising in medieval literature, particularly Chaucer. He participated in the D-day landing on Omaha Beach and was fired by UC Berkeley for refusing to sign a McCarthyite oath.[1] He challenged the termination in court and won reinstatement to his position at Berkeley in a landmark 1951 court decision.


You are right. A much better man. Unfortunately there are many who would defend Koch. The same people who think a billionaire needs a cheering section and middle class and poor people are irrelevant losers.

5 researchok  Mon, May 9, 2011 8:22:45pm

Koch is out of line, to be sure.

Ultimately though, the school agreed to a deal they should have rejected.

6 Interesting Times  Mon, May 9, 2011 8:42:04pm

re: #5 researchok

Ultimately though, the school agreed to a deal they should have rejected.

1. Tea Party gov & state reps slash university funding

2. Tea Party astroturfing billionaires offer new funding on condition university only hire Tea Party professors

3. ???

4. PROFIT!

7 researchok  Tue, May 10, 2011 2:34:15am

re: #6 publicityStunted

1. Tea Party gov & state reps slash university funding

2. Tea Party astroturfing billionaires offer new funding on condition university only hire Tea Party professors

3. ???

4. PROFIT!

What does any of that that have to do with the integrity of the school?

8 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 10, 2011 4:10:48am

FSU will make a nice trophy display with George Mason and Auburn/Mises.

9 aagcobb  Tue, May 10, 2011 4:13:39am

re: #7 researchok

It only works if the school has no integrity.

10 Interesting Times  Tue, May 10, 2011 5:53:15am

re: #7 researchok

What does any of that that have to do with the integrity of the school?

It's obvious - if gov't funding gets gutted to the point where the university finds itself in jeopardy, they may very well find selling themselves to the highest bidder the only option for survival.

Ergo, if you want to turn a school into a good little corporate caddy, just have your bought-and-paid-for politicians cut off their public cash.

11 researchok  Tue, May 10, 2011 6:17:41am

re: #10 publicityStunted

It's obvious - if gov't funding gets gutted to the point where the university finds itself in jeopardy, they may very well find selling themselves to the highest bidder the only option for survival.

Ergo, if you want to turn a school into a good little corporate caddy, just have your bought-and-paid-for politicians cut off their public cash.

So integrity and morality on the part of the school are only conditional?

Besides, since when do state universities have to turn a profit?

12 Obdicut  Tue, May 10, 2011 6:21:08am

re: #11 researchok

So integrity and morality on the part of the school are only conditional?

The point is that if they take money with these restraints, they compromise their integrity. And offering the money with these restrictions is an attempt to compromise their integrity.


Besides, since when do state universities have to turn a profit?

They need money in order to do things like teach students, you know. So when their budget is cut, an administrator may have to choose between between shutting down programs or taking money from sleazy sources like this.

Either way, the students suffer.

13 RogueOne  Tue, May 10, 2011 6:29:10am

If someone donates a large amount of money and wants it spent in a specific manner then the school has the option of taking it or not. Koch gave $100 Million to MIT to start a new cancer research facility. Soros started his own accredited school CEU and has given tens of millions of dollars to a variety of universities (including $50 million to Oxford) to focus on his particular brand of economics.

The more varied POV's encountered by students the better.

14 Obdicut  Tue, May 10, 2011 6:39:43am

re: #13 RogueOne


If someone donates a large amount of money and wants it spent in a specific manner then the school has the option of taking it or not.

Everyone understands that.


Soros started his own accredited school CEU and has given tens of millions of dollars to a variety of universities (including $50 million to Oxford) to focus on his particular brand of economics.

Please demonstrate where Soros retained hiring/firing approval for the school he helped fund at Oxford. Since he didn't, you can't.

He gave the money to the Martin School because it was already focusing on his brand of economics. That's the way that it's supposed to work; you donate money to a school or institution that is doing work you approve of. The reason why Koch did it this way is that you can't really find any economic departments who believe what he does, because it's nutso. Even the Chicago School thinks the Koch brand of libertarianism is whackjob.

The more varied POV's encountered by students the better.

Wow, that's stupid.

No, students should encounter points of view that are wrong. Holocaust revisionism, creationism, and Austrian economics don't really have any place in a serious academic setting. There are literally an infinite number of points of view that it's either pointless or damaging to expose students to.

15 RogueOne  Tue, May 10, 2011 6:52:36am

re: #14 Obdicut

[Link: business.timesonline.co.uk...]


George Soros is to create a new economics institute at Oxford University.

It is part of an attempt to steer the discipline away from the champions of the free market and deregulation who, the billionaire financier believes, share the blame for the global economic crisis.

The institute, as yet unnamed, is being funded by the New York-based Institute for New Economic Thinking (Inet), a think-tank and educational and grant-giving organisation founded last October with a $50 million pledge from Mr Soros to stimulate debate about the role of government regulation in the economy and financial markets.

Both Inet and the new Oxford economics institute reflect Mr Soros’s frustration at the way global financial markets work on the premise that markets can be left to their own devices. He believes that the current crisis has shown the reverse to be true.
....
Mr Soros has donated $5 million to Oxford’s James Martin 21st Century School, which is putting in another $5 million, to create the new institute, which will be headed by Professor Sir David Hendry, a fellow of Nuffield College. It is the first of a dozen or so that Mr Soros hopes to set up at leading universities worldwide. Inet is talking to Cambridge as well as higher education universities in Germany, France, China, Italy and the United States, where there have been discussions under way with Princeton, Columbia and New York University.

Oxford was chosen for the first institute because Mr Soros believed that Britain was more open to broadening the economic debate than the US, Mr Johnson said.

I should have mentioned that the money Koch gave to MIT was meant to be spent in a specific manner also:

[Link: web.mit.edu...]


The $100 million gift is the fifth largest in MIT's history. Ground will be broken for the new building, which will be located next to the David H. Koch Biology Building and across Main Street from the Broad Institute, in March 2008.

What makes the new institute unique is the concept of pooling MIT's molecular geneticists and cell biologists with engineers.

"This is a new approach to cancer research with the potential to uncover breakthroughs in therapies and diagnostics," Koch said. "Conquering cancer will require multidisciplined initiatives and MIT is positioned to enable that collaboration.

I shouldn't be surprised that you would think it's a bad idea that students are able to get different POV's while in a university setting but I am. We wouldn't want kids to get the idea that there are different ways to address a problem when their betters have already made that assumption for them.

16 RogueOne  Tue, May 10, 2011 6:57:03am
Oxford was chosen for the first institute because Mr Soros believed that Britain was more open to broadening the economic debate than the US, Mr Johnson said.

Maybe someone should drop him a line and explain universities aren't the place to hold differing economic debates.

17 Obdicut  Tue, May 10, 2011 7:12:07am

re: #15 RogueOne

Nothing in what you cited in any way disproved or even challenged what I said, you know that, right?

re: #16 RogueOne

Maybe someone should drop him a line and explain universities aren't the place to hold differing economic debates.

Oh, they are. They're just not a place for propping up failed, idiotic economic ideals because some particular billionaire thinks they're nifty.

I shouldn't be surprised that you would think it's a bad idea that students are able to get different POV's while in a university setting but I am.

That's, of course, not what i said. Why do you need to resort to lying, Rogue? What is up with you that you can't just make your argument? Is it really that weak?

I said that there are a lot of points of view that it's damaging to teach to students-- unless what you're teaching them is how wrong that point of view is. Creastionism shouldn't be taught in science class.

We wouldn't want kids to get the idea that there are different ways to address a problem when their betters have already made that assumption for them.

Hilarious. You somehow don't realize this applies to what Koch is doing. That's the depth of your self-reflection, right there.

Comedy.

Don't tell me that your glibertarian idiocy includes fondness for the Austrian and Chicago School, please. Even you can't be that wacky, can you?

18 RogueOne  Tue, May 10, 2011 7:26:40am

re: #17 Obdicut

Nothing in what you cited in any way disproved or even challenged what I said, you know that, right?

Really? FTA:

It is part of an attempt to steer the discipline away from the champions of the free market and deregulation who, the billionaire financier believes, share the blame for the global economic crisis.

The institute, as yet unnamed, is being funded by the New York-based Institute for New Economic Thinking (Inet), a think-tank and educational and grant-giving organisation founded last October with a $50 million pledge from Mr Soros to stimulate debate about the role of government regulation in the economy and financial markets.

Is that confusing? He gave money to start a new department that specializes in the brand of economics he espouses.

Another link:
Converting the Preachers: George Soros launches a $50 million effort to purge economics of its free-market zeal.

[Link: www.newsweek.com...]

Oh, they are. They're just not a place for propping up failed, idiotic economic ideals because some particular billionaire thinks they're nifty.

See above.


That's, of course, not what i said. Why do you need to resort to lying, Rogue? What is up with you that you can't just make your argument? Is it really that weak?

I said that there are a lot of points of view that it's damaging to teach to students-- unless what you're teaching them is how wrong that point of view is. Creastionism shouldn't be taught in science class.

Hilarious. You somehow don't realize this applies to what Koch is doing. That's the depth of your self-reflection, right there.

Comedy.

Don't tell me that your glibertarian idiocy includes fondness for the Austrian and Chicago School, please. Even you can't be that wacky, can you?

Can you point out where I said anything close to untrue? Of course you can't. The argument we're having is over an economics chair not Holocaust revisionism and not creationism. You want someone to decide what's right and what is wrong when it comes to academic studies and I say students can't make that decision unless they have an understanding of varying viewpoints. Unless you're an acolyte who believes there is only one tool (economic theory) to combat an issue then the more varied and differing arguments the better.

"glibterian"? Really? The ad-hom shows the weakness of your argument.

19 RogueOne  Tue, May 10, 2011 7:33:40am

Now I know where Soros gets some of his crazy idea:

George Soros, Hayek Fan
[Link: www.futureofcapitalism.com...]


George Soros — the money manager and financier of left-wing causes — turns out to be a fan of Friedrich Hayek, the Austrian economist whose Road to Serfdom, warning of the perils of central planning, has been a bestseller amid President Obama's expansion of government.

That was the message from Mr. Soros's remarks here this afternoon at a Cato Institute forum.

Mr. Soros described his own views, emphasizing "fallibility" and "reflexivity," as "in accordance with Hayek's ideas." He said that in the late 1940s, as a student at the London School of Economics, he had come out "on Hayek's side" against socialism, "scientism," and central planning.

Mr. Soros said he'd been "influenced" by Hayek. "He has had a big influence on my thinking," Mr. Soros said, going on to describe government regulation as "a necessary evil."

Goodness. We wouldn't want Hayek to continue corrupting the minds of any of our youth. Something has to be done.

20 garhighway  Tue, May 10, 2011 7:42:53am

Perhaps you should read Soros's actual words before deciding what he believes.

[Link: dyn.politico.com...]

Either way, I missed the part about Soros wanting the right to hire and fire professors.

21 celticdragon  Tue, May 10, 2011 8:20:05am

Holy shit. I just found that my school, Guilford College, just accepted 500,000 from Koch ally BB&T.

Strings are attached...

Guilford College accepted a 10-year, $500,000 grant from BB&T, along with the following strings: an upper-level interdisciplinary course requiring the assignment of Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged” in its entirety, and the commitment of the college to annually (until the year 2019) give a copy of the book to every student who majors either in business or economics when that student enters his or her junior year. Meredith College faculty rejected a $420,000 “gift” that the college president had negotiated with a BB&T foundation on the grounds that the college needed to retain control over course curricula. Incidents of this latter kind abound, but fall far behind the number of instances in which the corporations have gotten the traction they wanted with the schools.

I just sent a mass email to many of the faculty and asked them to join me in protesting this assault on our academic freedom.

22 Randy W. Weeks  Tue, May 10, 2011 8:38:35am

re: #21 celticdragon

Just...wow. Crazy assed stuff from the "libertarian right" these days.

23 Interesting Times  Tue, May 10, 2011 8:40:59am

re: #21 celticdragon

Holy shit. I just found that my school, Guilford College, just accepted 500,000 from Koch ally BB&T.

Guilford College accepted a 10-year, $500,000 grant from BB&T, along with the following strings: an upper-level interdisciplinary course requiring the assignment of Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged” in its entirety

Surely that constitutes a violation of the 8th amendment's cruel and unusual punishment clause?

24 garzooma  Tue, May 10, 2011 8:57:07am

re: #14 Obdicut

The reason why Koch did it this way is that you can't really find any economic departments who believe what he does, because it's nutso. Even the Chicago School thinks the Koch brand of libertarianism is whackjob.
[...]
No, students should [not] encounter points of view that are wrong. Holocaust revisionism, creationism, and Austrian economics don't really have any place in a serious academic setting. There are literally an infinite number of points of view that it's either pointless or damaging to expose students to.

Actually, you may have hit upon a great new business model for the schools. Sort of like in The Producers where the accountant realizes you can make more money with a flop than with a hit. Obviously no one is going to pay to get you to teach well respected views -- you're going to teach that anyway. But they will pay to get exposure for the nutso views. You could even charge more the zanier they are: $1M for saying Global Warming is a hoax, $2M for Young Earth Creationism, and $5M to say the earth is flat.

You're definitely on to something!

25 Kronocide  Tue, May 10, 2011 9:51:34am

Equivocation: winning by not losing.

A favored tactic of holocaust and global warming deniers.

26 Obdicut  Tue, May 10, 2011 12:51:54pm

re: #18 RogueOne

Is that confusing? He gave money to start a new department that specializes in the brand of economics he espouses.

Nope. He's giving money to Oxford because they have economists there that specialize in his brand of economics.

You're going to keep slamming your head against this distinction, of course. I can never tell if you just don't understand these things or you're pretending not to. Doesn't matter, in the end.

an you point out where I said anything close to untrue? Of course you can't.

Yes, I can, Rogue. Right here:


I shouldn't be surprised that you would think it's a bad idea that students are able to get different POV's while in a university setting but I am.

That's a lie. I don't think it's bad idea for students to get different point of views. You lied about that in order to prop up your feeble, feeble argument.

You want someone to decide what's right and what is wrong when it comes to academic studies and I say students can't make that decision unless they have an understanding of varying viewpoints.

I'm fine with different viewpoints. I'm not fine with stupid, debunked viewpoints, which Austrian economics are.


"glibterian"? Really? The ad-hom shows the weakness of your argument.

No, ad hominems don't actually demonstrate anything about the rest of the argument itself; that's actually a fallacy on your part. Nifty.

27 Obdicut  Tue, May 10, 2011 12:53:09pm

re: #19 RogueOne

As usual, you don't bother to really read the article.

28 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, May 11, 2011 1:31:29pm

This is truly terrible. It reflects the very common attitude on the right that truth can be bought and that dollars equal reality. If those pesky facts have a "liberal bias" then simply refuse to let the facts come out.


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