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1 sliv_the_eli  May 27, 2011 8:18:30am

What makes the photo caption even more nefarious is that it is extremely unlikely an ultra-Orthodox Jew would actually be standing in front of the Dome of the Rock Mosque. The mosque stands on Har ha-Bayit, the Temple Mount that is considered holy to Jews. Ultra-Orthodox Jews generally do not set foot on the Temple Mount, because it is unclear where on the hill the Holy of Holies — where it would be forbidden for any but the Cohen Gadol (high priest) to tread — was located during the Temple period.

2 Mad Prophet Ludwig  May 27, 2011 8:33:05am

What bothers me more about it is the railing certainty that the mount belongs to Muslims and that we have no place there; that we are evil for even considering it our own despite its significance. By not properly making it clear what it means to the world and by letting others deny the sacrifices for peace made by giving it up, we have let others not even notice.

It is not theirs.

It never will be.

We let them have it for a peace that has not come and they do not want.

Of course I get into trouble with the moonbats here for saying that.

3 What, me worry?  May 27, 2011 8:37:02am

re: #1 sliv_the_eli

What makes the photo caption even more nefarious is that it is extremely unlikely an ultra-Orthodox Jew would actually be standing in front of the Dome of the Rock Mosque. The mosque stands on Har ha-Bayit, the Temple Mount that is considered holy to Jews. Ultra-Orthodox Jews generally do not set foot on the Temple Mount, because it is unclear where on the hill the Holy of Holies — where it would be forbidden for any but the Cohen Gadol (high priest) to tread — was located during the Temple period.

There’s a courtyard outside of the actual sanctuary where you can go. You just can’t go inside. Well, you can, but most Jews do not. This man is probably standing in or near the courtyard.

And there’s that “ultra” word again I’m so fond of :(

4 What, me worry?  May 27, 2011 8:37:34am

re: #2 LudwigVanQuixote

What bothers me more about it is the railing certainty that the mount belongs to Muslims and that we have no place there; that we are evil for even considering it our own despite its significance. By not properly making it clear what it means to the world and by letting others deny the sacrifices for peace made by giving it up, we have let others not even notice.

It is not theirs.

It never will be.

We let them have it for a peace that has not come and they do not want.

Of course I get into trouble with the moonbats here for saying that.

Your middle name is Trouble these days, basically.

I still love you :)

5 Mad Prophet Ludwig  May 27, 2011 8:38:22am

re: #4 marjoriemoon

Your middle name is Trouble these days, basically.

I still love you :)

I love you too marjoree.

6 sliv_the_eli  May 27, 2011 8:55:48am

re: #3 marjoriemoon

There’s a courtyard outside of the actual sanctuary where you can go. You just can’t go inside. Well, you can, but most Jews do not. This man is probably standing in or near the courtyard.

And there’s that “ultra” word again I’m so fond of :(

I know the courtyard, but have rarely seen haredi Jews there. They typically steer a wide berth when it comes to ascending any part of the Temple Mount.

7 sliv_the_eli  May 27, 2011 8:57:38am

re: #2 LudwigVanQuixote

What bothers me more about it is the railing certainty that the mountland of Israel belongs to Muslims and that we have no place there; that we are evil for even considering it our own despite its significance. By not properly making it clear what it means to the world and by letting others deny the sacrifices for peace made by giving it up, we have let others not even notice.

It is not theirs.

It never will be.

We let them have it for a peace that has not come and they do not want.

Of course I get into trouble with the moonbats here for saying that.

LVQ, Hope you don’t mind the correction, but I think it is now more accurate in describing how the world views the Jew among Nations.

8 Mad Prophet Ludwig  May 27, 2011 9:04:17am

re: #7 sliv_the_eli

LVQ, Hope you don’t mind the correction, but I think it is now more accurate in describing how the world views the Jew among Nations.

Of course many do feel that way. They are annoyed that we don’t just give a little more… how much.. all of it.

The Jews here and everywhare need to be very clear about certain points.

We did not get our homeland as a consolation prize for past suffering. It was not given us by the nations.

It is our actual homeland. It is not anyone else’s to give or take from us. We lived their, bled there and toiled there for thousands of years.

When we offered peace in 48 and just a tiny sliver of what was rightfully ours, Arab armies with the chant of murdering all of us started and lost a war. And then again and again. We paid for what is ours with our blood.

It is not theirs.

Our holy sites are not theirs. It odes not matter that they wish to co-opt them or that their faiths feel the need to mooch authority from us. We are the first Abraham people, the very sons and daughters of him.

It is not theirs.

They have no right by history or law or faith to claim it. They have no right by force of arms either yet continue to wage war against us.

It is not theirs.

If we do not start as Jews saying this loudly and clearly, all those who do not know, will think that maybe it is theirs.

9 Mad Prophet Ludwig  May 27, 2011 9:06:12am

PIMF:

Of course many do feel that way. They are annoyed that we don’t just give a little more… how much.. all of it.

The Jews here and everywhare need to be very clear about certain points.

We did not get our homeland as a consolation prize for past suffering. It was not given us by the nations.

It is our actual homeland. It is not anyone else’s to give or take from us. We lived there, bled there and toiled there for thousands of years.

When we offered peace in 48 and we only had just a tiny sliver of what was rightfully ours. Arab armies with the chant of murdering all of us started and lost a war. And then again and again. We paid for what is ours with our blood.

It is not theirs.

Our holy sites are not theirs. It does not matter that they wish to co-opt them or that their faiths feel the need to mooch authority from us. We are the first Abrahamic people, the very sons and daughters of him.

It is not theirs.

They have no right by history or law or faith to claim it. They have no right by force of arms either yet continue to wage war against us.

It is not theirs.

If we do not start as Jews saying this loudly and clearly, all those who do not know, will think that maybe it is theirs.

10 sliv_the_eli  May 27, 2011 9:09:27am

re: #8 LudwigVanQuixote

Of course many do feel that way. They are annoyed that we don’t just give a little more… how much.. all of it.

The Jews here and everywhare need to be very clear about certain points.

We did not get our homeland as a consolation prize for past suffering. It was not given us by the nations.

It is our actual homeland. It is not anyone else’s to give or take from us. We lived their, bled there and toiled there for thousands of years.

When we offered peace in 48 and just a tiny sliver of what was rightfully ours, Arab armies with the chant of murdering all of us started and lost a war. And then again and again. We paid for what is ours with our blood.

It is not theirs.

Our holy sites are not theirs. It odes not matter that they wish to co-opt them or that their faiths feel the need to mooch authority from us. We are the first Abraham people, the very sons and daughters of him.

It is not theirs.

They have no right by history or law or faith to claim it. They have no right by force of arms either yet continue to wage war against us.

It is not theirs.

If we do not start as Jews saying this loudly and clearly, all those who do not know, will think that maybe it is theirs.

I agree with the sentiment. That said, the said reality is that the views of many toward Israel will be unaffected by what we say, since it is merely a projection onto the State of Israel of the blind anti-Semitism that was directed against individual Jews and Diaspora Jewish communities for 2,000 years before the modern State arose in the face of the Arabs’ attempt to wipe it out. It is more important, therefore, in my view, that we act upon those sentiments regardless of whether our reiteration of them convinces anyone of their truth.

11 Mad Prophet Ludwig  May 27, 2011 9:13:20am

re: #10 sliv_the_eli

I agree with the sentiment. That said, the said reality is that the views of many toward Israel will be unaffected by what we say, since it is merely a projection onto the State of Israel of the blind anti-Semitism that was directed against individual Jews and Diaspora Jewish communities for 2,000 years before the modern State arose in the face of the Arabs’ attempt to wipe it out. It is more important, therefore, in my view, that we act upon those sentiments regardless of whether our reiteration of them convinces anyone of their truth.

Yes, but the one thing that history has taught me as a Jew is that step one is always having US agree on the priorities and to hell with the rest of ‘em. The haters will not care in any case. The ones on the fence might be swayed by the actual truth of things if stated with half the passion that the Arabs scream their lies.

In either case, it is not the job of the nations to give or take what is ours. It is our job to not be ashamed of demanding what is ours with one voice.

It is not theirs.

It never was.

It is ours.

MY birthright.

12 Mostly sane, most of the time.  May 27, 2011 9:18:28am

I saw that picture and I flashed back on the Bill Cosby routine on radio series “the Shadow…”

13 lazardo  May 27, 2011 9:22:29am

Cockblock…mosqueblock?

/

14 What, me worry?  May 27, 2011 12:03:38pm

re: #11 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, but the one thing that history has taught me as a Jew is that step one is always having US agree on the priorities and to hell with the rest of ‘em. The haters will not care in any case. The ones on the fence might be swayed by the actual truth of things if stated with half the passion that the Arabs scream their lies.

In either case, it is not the job of the nations to give or take what is ours. It is our job to not be ashamed of demanding what is ours with one voice.

It is not theirs.

It never was.

It is ours.

MY birthright.

You’re not saying anything wrong, of course. You are most correct and no Jew is happy about the Dome of Rock. But my issue, particularly when speaking in mixed company as we are online, is to try to be a bit more diplomatic about it. I know you feel some things don’t deserve that kind of diplomacy and you’re right about that, too, but my feeling is you’re not getting heard because of it. And that’s probably worse than taking the stand. A stand, btw, most Jews take anyway.

For the sake of diplomacy and the new and improved (greatly) LGF, I’m trying to be a bit more kinder and gentler.

Windsagio is my challenge. I’m almost to the point of giving up there. He doesn’t want to listen I’ve been more than gracious to him many many time which he fails to remember. Many of us have.

15 Mad Prophet Ludwig  May 27, 2011 12:28:34pm

re: #14 marjoriemoon

Marjoree,

It’s not theirs, never was, never will be is the diplomatic stance.

The undiplomatic stance is and when you come to take it from us, we will fight and we will win.

16 Pie-onist Overlord  May 27, 2011 12:38:44pm

The reason I posted this picture (for some reason the LGF image posting tool does not work on IE8, so you’ll have to go over to my blog to view it)—I have a feature called “Scary Jew Shadow” which occasionally pops up in the news wire photo feeds, “artistic” photographs of a scary-looking shadow of an eeville Jew looming over something.

17 sliv_the_eli  May 27, 2011 3:20:56pm

re: #14 marjoriemoon

You’re not saying anything wrong, of course. You are most correct and no Jew is happy about the Dome of Rock. But my issue, particularly when speaking in mixed company as we are online, is to try to be a bit more diplomatic about it. I know you feel some things don’t deserve that kind of diplomacy and you’re right about that, too, but my feeling is you’re not getting heard because of it. And that’s probably worse than taking the stand. A stand, btw, most Jews take anyway.

For the sake of diplomacy and the new and improved (greatly) LGF, I’m trying to be a bit more kinder and gentler.

Windsagio is my challenge. I’m almost to the point of giving up there. He doesn’t want to listen I’ve been more than gracious to him many many time which he fails to remember. Many of us have.

Marjorie: Please don’t despair. Even if windsagio never gets it, that are other posters and lurkers on LGF who may not have sufficient background and are interested in learning. That’s why I started posting a few months back, especially on matters involving Israel and the Middle East, after merely lurking for a number of years. If we can give even a few people a greater, and more accurate, understanding of the issues, we will have done the world a service.

18 What, me worry?  May 27, 2011 8:20:02pm

re: #17 sliv_the_eli

Marjorie: Please don’t despair. Even if windsagio never gets it, that are other posters and lurkers on LGF who may not have sufficient background and are interested in learning. That’s why I started posting a few months back, especially on matters involving Israel and the Middle East, after merely lurking for a number of years. If we can give even a few people a greater, and more accurate, understanding of the issues, we will have done the world a service.

Tis true! I always like to read your pages, too, Sliv.


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