Not Welcome

Culture • May 2011 • Views: 1,321

This is a 25 minute promotion video of a movie with the same title. It examines the bigotry surrounding the opposition to the building of a mosque in Murfreesboro, TN

Vimeo

The hatred is ugly. It’s also similar to the sort of prejudice that is already infiltrating Zionist groups in the SF Bay Area, sadly.

Below the video it states: “Not for commercial distribution, Please do not distribute.”

So, I’m not posting in a commercial forum but if anyone thinks I shouldn’t be posting this, per above statements, let me know or flag it, but since it is a promotional video, I think it is ok.

Recent Pages by eclectic infidel (Eclectic Infidel):
The Palestinian Authority's Inconvenient Truths A Video with Meat Gender Mixing in a Cafe? Rape Survivor's Story The Benefits of Measles

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22 comments

Shiplord Kirel Sun, May 29, 2011 4:55:12pm

For the love of God.

Muslim camps, Muslims taking over, Muhammed's playbook, rise up and kill every Christian. They generate all this fear and panic when they are out-numbered 200 to 1. How fierce these Muslim supermen must be!

I know there is no shame in ignorance anymore. Is there no shame in cowardice either?

Shiplord Kirel Sun, May 29, 2011 5:01:55pm

I see a lot of fit young men among the demonstrators. If they are truly interested in fighting some dangerous Muslims, I have a deal for them.

CuriousLurker Sun, May 29, 2011 5:13:44pm

Ugh, the "moon god" thing again. Assimilate = convert to Christianity. Muslims are hateful and want everyone to convert to Islam, unlike us.

The ignorance, fear, and hatred is mind boggling. That this shit is seeping into Zionist groups is pitiful.

The ending was great though. Thanks for posting.

CuriousLurker Sun, May 29, 2011 5:22:21pm

re: #1 Shiplord Kirel

I know there is no shame in ignorance anymore. Is there no shame in cowardice either?

Apparently not. It's beyond embarrassing. And exactly what the terrorists want.

re: #2 Shiplord Kirel

I see a lot of fit young men among the demonstrators. If they are truly interested in fighting some dangerous Muslims, I have a deal for them.

Indeed. But they won't because they don't. Nine out of ten times that someone said something nasty to me in the street, it was men—sometimes more than one—and only when I was alone or with another female, NEVER when I was with my son or husband. They're the worst sort of chickenshit bullies.

Hell, you should've seen their faces when I'd whirl around and snarl at them and they'd realize by my accent that I was American. They never failed to be taken aback and try to weasel out of their assholishness. They're nothing but cowards who only pick on women they think are foreign and will be easily intimidated.

*spit*

Bob Levin Mon, May 30, 2011 3:36:30am

Wait a second. This picture isn't making sense. It begins with 600 native Tennesseans protesting against the Detroit Nazi Party, and they are clearly against the Klan as well.

Then the filmmaker asks--'Can we judge the South by a few radical extremists?' But the extremists were from Detroit. He then takes a right angle and talks about Tennessee being the buckle of the Bible Belt, because they have churches. Too many churches, or not enough variety in the houses of worship? The graphic with the multiplying crosses supports both possibilities.

He then goes about his interviews, and doesn't seem to have any trouble finding people who have no problem with building the mosque. It seems easy. A rabbi, the mayor, a lawyer--who knows how this is going to end, that the mosque will be built.

Next we see that this has made the national news, mostly due to the efforts of the filmmaker, as the video later says.

He has to do a little dumpster diving to find the kind of thick-headed racists he's looking for.

And how is it that the filmmaker hadn't heard of Bedford Forrest, and not known that he was a founder of the Klan. (The Klan was very powerful in the twenties, they even marched in full robes through Washington D.C.) How is Forrest representative of the 600 people protesting the Detroit Nazis? How is Forrest representative of the mayor, or the rabbi?

Another 90 degree turn, and the film turns to the subject of the filmmaker himself--and this, um, untruth, that he moved to Tennessee, after his huge disappointment with Hollywood, only to be shocked by the history of Tennessee. Puhleeze. And mind you, in the very beginning of his film people are actively fighting that history, disappointed by it, tearful that remnants linger.

The question emerges, who is in the majority? And of the minority, just how small is this minority? After all, the Muslims had lived there without a problem for 30 years.

Okay, the feds are stepping in. I say this because the FBI seems to have identified a hate crime. But wait, instead of asking for a comment from the FBI, we get to see full blown religious nuttitude. Praying on the ground, march through the town--seems like a large group. The population of the town in over 100,000 people. That's not 50,000 people on the march. Are there masses and masses of people involved in trying to stop the mosque?

Instead of trying to answer that question, we get more nuttitude--but this time tarring everyone with a broad brush of Bedford Forrest, "a local hero". Guess what, he's not a hero. Many folks interviewed basically said that. Every city, county and hamlet has statues and buildings named after people who are infamous, because they had the money to the stuff built, or get buildings named for him or her.

Another right angle turn. Who is Kevin Fisher? He's a Muslim, yes? Or no?
We don't find out, the story is back to the filmmaker.

And then, he moves out of Tennessee altogether--Pat Robertson, the dude with the gray Fu Manchu beard, and then to all 70,000,000 evangelicals.

So what's going on in Murfreesboro? Simple thing to do, check out the local paper.

This might be another case of filmmakers gone wild. There are crazy, nutty, paranoid people in the US. There always has been, there always will be.

Bob Levin Mon, May 30, 2011 3:43:35am

re: #3 CuriousLurker

This isn't seeping into Zionist groups. I rail against how over-institutionalized the American Jewish culture has become. There's a reason, it's true. There are synagogues, charities, Hillels, teen groups, groups who meet and support the existence of the State of Israel--and then there is the ever dwindling fringe.

But I'm curious, too. I'd like to see some documentation of how this is seeping into Zionist groups. Or, very simply, I'd like to personally see a Zionist group. I've never seen one.

There used to be Zionist groups, before 1948. My grandfather belonged to one, which was indistinguishable from the local socialist (shhh.) group. ;-)

Bob Levin Mon, May 30, 2011 3:54:38am

*sigh*. PIMF.

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 30, 2011 10:55:41am

re: #3 CuriousLurker

Ugh, the "moon god" thing again. Assimilate = convert to Christianity. Muslims are hateful and want everyone to convert to Islam, unlike us.

The ignorance, fear, and hatred is mind boggling. That this shit is seeping into Zionist groups is pitiful.

The ending was great though. Thanks for posting.

It's hilarious. They have absolutely no grip on ancient Middle Eastern religious tradition, but they've gotten this 'moon god' thing down, and they're gonna stick to it. I still can't figure out what they think it means.

As for the issue from the Zionist activist end--it's getting tough. I feel as though I have crazy left-wingers on one side, and crazy right-wingers on the other, and they're getting crazier to match each other. Freepers and Jewish Voice for Peace on the same day.

Aaaaaghh!!

(I think this is easier in a bigger community of Zionists. LA. New York. In the Bay Area, you have to be pretty insane yourself to wade into this to begin with, so it's that much harder to get a well-balanced crew. I think my org. does OK, but eternal vigilance is decidedly called for.)

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 30, 2011 11:03:33am

re: #6 Bob Levin

This isn't seeping into Zionist groups. I rail against how over-institutionalized the American Jewish culture has become. There's a reason, it's true. There are synagogues, charities, Hillels, teen groups, groups who meet and support the existence of the State of Israel--and then there is the ever dwindling fringe.

But I'm curious, too. I'd like to see some documentation of how this is seeping into Zionist groups. Or, very simply, I'd like to personally see a Zionist group. I've never seen one.

There used to be Zionist groups, before 1948. My grandfather belonged to one, which was indistinguishable from the local socialist (shhh.) group. ;-)

Bob, I am involved with several pro-Israel activist organizations in the Bay Area. All of them, to some degree or other, have members who, while otherwise being sterling individuals, have accepted a deep degree of Front Page Magazine style paranoia and hate. They're not bad folks. They're not going to hurt anyone. But they will tell me, totally seriously, that any Muslim who's not waging violent jihad is a bad Muslim--because Islam requires total war. They may not know Robert Spencer's name, or Jonah Goldberg's, but they know their work.

I don't like saying this. I would like to say that we're all perfect out here in the Zionist activist trenches. But we're not, and we're, perhaps, more vulnerable to fear than many. When you've stood across the street from people screaming 'itbach al-Yahud', which has happened around here too often, people are susceptible to being told that there's a simple reason for this--Islam and leftists and Obama, oh my!!

Eclectic Infidel knows this firsthand.

As for what you say about the overhomogenizedblandness of the community, that's part of our problem, especially in the Bay Area. We can't get a lot of support from the community. So the normalizing influence isn't there, and the overwhelming rush of bad information from all of these nutcases IS.

Bob Levin Mon, May 30, 2011 4:01:25pm

re: #9 SanFranciscoZionist

I'll accept that. You know though, that the rest of the country will work through synagogues, Hillel, Day Schools, the local chapter of the JNF? The rest of the country prefers our spokespeople to be the Arthur Blank type of person.

I would say that there are a great deal of Jewish people who have zero trust in the regimes of the Middle East and even feel threatened. I would say that there are people who have zero trust in Fatah, Hamas, and Hezbollah--I would be among those people. There's lots of empirical evidence to reach such conclusions. But to make the jump to the Koran, you'd have to read the Koran. We don't even read the Torah.

The last intifada really shook people up, and then 9/11. These actions didn't fit into our nicey nice view of human psychology. People want to know how people can do this, why people do this. These are legitimate questions.

When you say you can't get a lot of support from the established Jewish community, that's what I meant. I was excluding groups that pop up outside of that normative, bland, conservative atmosphere. Oddly, those mainstream folks are not as susceptible to Front Page. And that's why I've never encountered a Zionist group. But if that's the Bay area culture--I guess it's pretty confined.

The confusion is not confined. This is the reason that I say over and over that as Jews, we've never really addressed the lessons of the Holocaust. If we really addressed this, then we wouldn't be confused. First, we need a view of psychology that matches reality. Me, I find more wisdom in Milgram than Freud. (There is an irony in this. As a parent, you try to raise kids that will stand up and say 'no' in those situations. Of course, your kids begin to practice this on you.)

Please don't take this question the wrong way. If the Zionist organizations are out of the mainstream, what exactly do you do? I don't understand the concept. (And, by the way, thank you for not calling our house a 7pm to ask for money.)

CuriousLurker Mon, May 30, 2011 4:34:05pm

re: #6 Bob Levin

My comment about the Zionist groups was based on Eclectic Infidel's statement about such. I know that he & SFZ are friends in real life and are involved in pro-Israel activism. I have seen them discuss, with no small amount of dismay, the "bad crazy" seeping into their groups. I have no reason to doubt them.

I've read thousands of posts by SFZ and hundreds by EI and have never known either to be intellectually dishonest or hyperbolic (apart from hyperbole as sarcasm in the form of comic relief, which is commonly seen here). IOW, if they say something in a serious tone, then I'm inclined to believe them.

CuriousLurker Mon, May 30, 2011 4:54:52pm

re: #9 SanFranciscoZionist

Bob, I am involved with several pro-Israel activist organizations in the Bay Area. All of them, to some degree or other, have members who, while otherwise being sterling individuals, have accepted a deep degree of Front Page Magazine style paranoia and hate. They're not bad folks. They're not going to hurt anyone. But they will tell me, totally seriously, that any Muslim who's not waging violent jihad is a bad Muslim--because Islam requires total war. They may not know Robert Spencer's name, or Jonah Goldberg's, but they know their work.

Spencer et al have certainly been effective, thanks in large part to the internet (blessing & curse that it is). I know exactly how you feel as I've seen otherwise decent, rational Muslims fall for some pretty ridiculous Zionist Conspiracy™ theories.

Then there are the people (often family members) who pick up bit & pieces of all sorts of weird miscellaneous crap from the internet and seem to take it as face value. It results in some pretty weird "crazy quilt" of general concepts when all sewn together.

I don't like saying this. I would like to say that we're all perfect out here in the Zionist activist trenches. But we're not, and we're, perhaps, more vulnerable to fear than many. When you've stood across the street from people screaming 'itbach al-Yahud', which has happened around here too often, people are susceptible to being told that there's a simple reason for this--Islam and leftists and Obama, oh my!!

Eclectic Infidel knows this firsthand.

Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't really thought about it.

As for what you say about the overhomogenizedblandness of the community, that's part of our problem, especially in the Bay Area. We can't get a lot of support from the community. So the normalizing influence isn't there, and the overwhelming rush of bad information from all of these nutcases IS.

I had no idea that you have trouble getting support. I guess I just assumed it would be automatic. Shame on me for that.

Bob Levin Mon, May 30, 2011 5:04:39pm

re: #11 CuriousLurker

I'm not saying that they are anything but honorable people. I was talking about the country as a whole--which I believe more closely resembles the cities that I've lived in, or presently live.

I grew up in a city with a Jewish population of 40,000. No Zionist groups since 1948. There were Zionist presentations at synagogues, appeals for charity. Endless visits to houses to see slides of their trips to Israel. But Judaism centered on the community center and synagogue. And the final word rested with the Rabbi or most prominent businessman (street smarts).

The same was true the next place I lived--but by then I was completely pretty disconnected from Judaism. And now, once again, I live where there is a Jewish population of about 70,000. The institutions rule, and those disconnected from institutions are pretty much on their own. No Zionist groups that I'm aware of.

There is a great deal of concern now--reasonable concern in an intellectual atmosphere where there are only unreasonable answers. That's a problem, and that's where conservative institutions can actually help. If the issue is spiritual growth, institutions tend to be a hindrance.

Once again, though, I'm having issues with the filmmaker. I mean, he didn't even show the existing mosque. There has to be one, right? Muslim community for 30 years? There has to be a mosque. There has to be a place for prayer and study. No one was making an issue of that, were they?

CuriousLurker Mon, May 30, 2011 5:05:54pm

re: #8 SanFranciscoZionist

It's hilarious. They have absolutely no grip on ancient Middle Eastern religious tradition, but they've gotten this 'moon god' thing down, and they're gonna stick to it. I still can't figure out what they think it means.

I can't figure it out either. My best guess is it's an attempt to refute that we believe in the Abrahamic God of the Jews & Christians and set us apart as "the other" and delegitimize Islam as a religion (false gods and all that).

As for the issue from the Zionist activist end--it's getting tough. I feel as though I have crazy left-wingers on one side, and crazy right-wingers on the other, and they're getting crazier to match each other. Freepers and Jewish Voice for Peace on the same day.

Aaaaghh!!

I feel for you, I really do. I admire your integrity immensely though. {{SFZ}}

(I think this is easier in a bigger community of Zionists. LA. New York. In the Bay Area, you have to be pretty insane yourself to wade into this to begin with, so it's that much harder to get a well-balanced crew. I think my org. does OK, but eternal vigilance is decidedly called for.)

Eternal vigilance indeed. I don't know why it's so, but it always seems to be easier to fall into hate, suspicion, and feelings of victimization than not. I have to constantly monitor myself for that crap as it tries to sprout up in my head/heart far more often than I'd like to admit. Negativity is a sneaky, persistent little bastard.

CuriousLurker Mon, May 30, 2011 6:59:14pm

re: #13 Bob Levin

I'm not saying that they are anything but honorable people. I was talking about the country as a whole--which I believe more closely resembles the cities that I've lived in, or presently live.

Okay, I can accept that. What I took issue with was:

re: #6 Bob Levin

This isn't seeping into Zionist groups. [...] But I'm curious, too. I'd like to see some documentation of how this is seeping into Zionist groups. Or, very simply, I'd like to personally see a Zionist group. I've never seen one.

That was presented as fact, as if it wasn't happening anywhere, rather than in your experience in the places you've lived. You also seemed to be questioning the very existence of Zionist groups. Thanks for clarifying.

There is a great deal of concern now--reasonable concern in an intellectual atmosphere where there are only unreasonable answers. That's a problem, and that's where conservative institutions can actually help. If the issue is spiritual growth, institutions tend to be a hindrance.

I agree that institutions can be both a hindrance & a great help. As long as reason prevails, all will (eventually) be okay.

Once again, though, I'm having issues with the filmmaker. I mean, he didn't even show the existing mosque. There has to be one, right? Muslim community for 30 years? There has to be a mosque. There has to be a place for prayer and study. No one was making an issue of that, were they?

Yes, there is an exiting mosque. The fact that a Muslim community has existed in Murfreesboro for 30 years only serves to highlight the current ridiculousness. Regarding your #5, Kevin Fisher is the person—or rather one of the people—who filed the lawsuit to stop the construction of the new mosque. For more info on who else is involved, see this article. An anti-Islam Christian Zionist group (cache link) provided funding for one of the two lawyers, and Frank Gaffney testified at one of the hearings. 'Nuff said.

As for the film, I took it for what it was: an internet "documentary". A documentary isn't necessarily objective if Wikipedia's definition is to be accepted, so I take such things with a grain of salt. The film did leave a lot of questions unanswered and took a lot of twists & turns. FWIW, my impression wasn't that bigots were the majority in Murfreesboro, but rather that current forces have emboldened a loud, obnoxious minority. The end was the most important thing to me because I understood the take-away from the experience to be the importance of not answering hate with hate—not always an easy task.

As for your other comments (also from #5) about dumpster diving for racists & tarring with a broad brush, I was born & raised in in Texas and spent the first 30+ years of my life there, so I know a little bit about bigotry in the South. In my experience it exists everywhere, but it's more likely to be expressed openly in the South.

I realize that may not be your experience, but then I think I can also safely assume that you've never worn hijab for a day and tried moving around a southern town to see what kind of reactions & comments you might get. I would imagine Jewish men wearing Hasidic dress also encounter some of the same, though maybe slightly less since—as I mentioned in my #4—most bigots seem to be cowardly bullies who prefer to pick on people (like women) who they think won't fight back

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 30, 2011 8:38:19pm

re: #10 Bob Levin

Please don't take this question the wrong way. If the Zionist organizations are out of the mainstream, what exactly do you do? I don't understand the concept. (And, by the way, thank you for not calling our house a 7pm to ask for money.)

We counterprotest anti-Israel activists in the Bay Area. Our local movement grew out of a response to the anti-Israel, anti-Semitic rhetoric on display during the big 'anti-war' demos at the beginning of the Iraq war. We turn out with signs and flags. We protest speakers like Gilad Atzmon. We send letters. On Saturday we will be at the Israel Independence Day Community event, making sure that protestors don't block the entrances. We give people resources and information. We organize people to call and tell the LGBT film festival not to give back the Israeli consulate's sponsorship.

That kind of thing.

And we suck at fundraising, so don't worry about that 7 PM call.

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 30, 2011 8:39:30pm

re: #10 Bob Levin

But to make the jump to the Koran, you'd have to read the Koran. We don't even read the Torah.

This is not at ALL true. All you have to do is read several online articles--then dozens--then thousands--TELLING you what the Koran says.

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 30, 2011 8:41:01pm

re: #16 SanFranciscoZionist

We counterprotest anti-Israel activists in the Bay Area. Our local movement grew out of a response to the anti-Israel, anti-Semitic rhetoric on display during the big 'anti-war' demos at the beginning of the Iraq war. We turn out with signs and flags. We protest speakers like Gilad Atzmon. We send letters. On Saturday we will be at the Israel Independence Day Community event, making sure that protestors don't block the entrances. We give people resources and information. We organize people to call and tell the LGBT film festival not to give back the Israeli consulate's sponsorship.

That kind of thing.

And we suck at fundraising, so don't worry about that 7 PM call.

Sunday. Sunday.

Bob Levin Mon, May 30, 2011 10:01:40pm

re: #15 CuriousLurker

In my experience it exists everywhere, but it's more likely to be expressed openly in the South.

And you live in Jersey, now? Well hush my mouth. And I live in the South now, and racism was more frequently expressed where I grew up, in what is considered the North.

I realize that may not be your experience, but then I think I can also safely assume that you've never worn hijab for a day and tried moving around a southern town to see what kind of reactions & comments you might get.

Remember, I recommended you watch Gentelmen's Agreement? I know what kind of reactions you get. And I've gotten them myself. It's not like I haven't been denied a job because I was Jewish. I get it.

I think the question is how prevalent is this racism. That seems to be the issue. I don't think it's that prevalent, but the internet and everything else makes it seem more widespread. And it makes it seem as though it could spread. It's a powerful tool.

However, there wasn't a single person in that documentary who had any bit of authority or education, that wasn't appalled by the idiots. Even the results of the court case called the plaintiffs a bunch of nuts, just not in those words.

You know, years ago there was a commercial for Marvin's Magic Drawing Board. And it looked so cool from the ads. So we bought one, my daughter was going on about it--and it did look cool. When it came, boy did we feel like suckers. I suspect that if we actually lived in M-boro, and then watched this film, we'd feel like suckers. I think we'd see a filmmaker who really wants to get back to Hollywood, some clergy protecting their ~~customer base~~ congregation like junkyard dogs, and people coming in from all over the country because they smelled a spotlight.

Bob Levin Mon, May 30, 2011 10:32:16pm

re: #16 SanFranciscoZionist

So basically, it's a full-time job out there, and the synagogues aren't into that style of confrontation. Plus, you have access to other groups, such as the LGBT folks, that synagogues can't talk to so easily. Ah. Still, there has to be representatives from other Jewish groups, synagogues, what not, that are out there with you. Now I have more questions than there is room to answer.

I can see the need in a city with full time Antisemites. I'll just say once again, America is a big place. In most cities people like to wait quietly and then go to the polling place. The Tea Party is just about over, but Antisemitism will be there for a while.

CuriousLurker Tue, May 31, 2011 4:41:07am

re: #19 Bob Levin

And you live in Jersey, now? Well hush my mouth. And I live in the South now, and racism was more frequently expressed where I grew up, in what is considered the North.

Remember, I recommended you watch Gentelmen's Agreement? I know what kind of reactions you get. And I've gotten them myself. It's not like I haven't been denied a job because I was Jewish. I get it.

I guess it depends on where you're at. There are parts of Jersey where I'd be really uncomfortable. Ditto for certain neighborhoods in NYC. Still, when all is said and done I haven't experienced nearly as much overt snark up here as I did back in Texas (I'm not not counting the standard East Coast snarkiness, heh—it took me a couple of years to stop taking that personally).

I think the question is how prevalent is this racism. That seems to be the issue. I don't think it's that prevalent, but the internet and everything else makes it seem more widespread. And it makes it seem as though it could spread. It's a powerful tool.

I don't think it's quantifiable due to all the variables involved:

Cultural background & individual personality - Both of these things can and do affect perception/attitude. Some people will see bigotry and/or racism where there is none, and yet others may totally miss it (or be unphased by it) when it does happen.

Past personal experiences - Combined with the above, this can have a huge effect.

Physical appearance - How ethnic or otherwise "different" (clothing, accent) does one appear? Can one "pass" as a member of the majority? And when I say "majority" I don't necessarily mean WASP—the majority in the East Village is different from the majority in Spanish Harlem, is different from the majority in Bensonhurt, is different from the majority in Bed-Stuy, is different from the majority in Crown Heights, is different from the majority in Flushing... [Link: www.walkingaround.com...]

Environment - What might members of a minority group say when members of the majority aren't present? Likewise, what might members of the majority say? What does each group actually express to the other and under what circumstances? For example, if there's a confrontation in the street, a person may react differently depending on whether or not they're alone; the same person would be likely to react differently at work, online, on the phone, at home with family, etc.

And so on...

Bob Levin Tue, May 31, 2011 2:15:13pm

re: #21 CuriousLurker

I really don't think racism has anything to do with the minority. I think it's a combination of peer group (a person thinks they will gain esteem by expressing hatred, which they mistake as verbal strength. Like teens cussing), and projection. People take their own shortcomings or deep faults and they act as if they are fine, but this other group has them.

Much of the world thinks that minorities can actually affect this process. No 'other' can have an effect on the inner mind of another person, especially if the racist will be doing everything in their power to keep the object or their projection as impersonal as possible.

Actually, there is one thing that 'others' can do. They can be very aware that those expressing the racist words are actually talking about themselves. In other words, the racist is not successfully hiding behind their hatred. You don't have to tell them, confrontation isn't necessary. Just being aware is strong enough. Soulful Tai Chi, quietly turning their own energy against them.

Another issue is that racists historically come out from under rocks on occasion, and then they go back under. But their numbers are small. However, combine them with people who enable them because of timidity, it makes it as though their numbers are larger. Again, Gentlemen's Agreement is the template here, illustrating both what works and what doesn't work.

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