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1 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 12:14:09pm

The panels in this "comic" look like they have been copied straight out of "Der Sturmer."

2 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 12:16:13pm

What could be more "pro human rights" than saving Jewish babies from their Jewish parents?
/

3 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 12:23:47pm

Because it's mutilation of babies, it matters not how long it's been a "tradition".

4 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 12:27:05pm

re: #3 Locker

Because it's mutilation of babies, it matters not how long it's been a "tradition".

Are you claiming that all Jews are "mutilators" "child abusers" and "torturers" and that such people are sub human? But you're not an Anti-Semite, of course.

5 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 12:28:35pm

I am claiming that anyone who chops off part of their baby's dick is a mutilator.

6 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 12:30:10pm

Alouette are you able to have a discussion about anything within 200 miles of the subject of Judaism without calling anyone who disagrees with you an anti-semite? How about you actually address the subject without resorting to this bullshit rhetoric.

Then again you could just call me a Nazi for not wanting to get part of my dick chopped off...sure seems in character for you.

7 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 12:32:34pm

re: #5 Locker

I am claiming that anyone who chops off part of their baby's dick is a mutilator.

So what do you think should be done with such people?

8 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 12:33:35pm

You can jam your loaded question straight up your ass.

9 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 12:34:07pm

re: #6 Locker

Alouette are you able to have a discussion about anything within 200 miles of the subject of Judaism without calling anyone who disagrees with you an anti-semite? How about you actually address the subject without resorting to this bullshit rhetoric.

Then again you could just call me a Nazi for not wanting to get part of my dick chopped off...sure seems in character for you.

I am not calling everyone who disagrees with me an "Anti-Semite," but I am calling YOU an Anti-Semite since you put all traditional Jewish people into the category of sub humans.

10 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 12:35:39pm

You are the one talking about religion dumb ass. I'm talking about penis chopping.

11 Proud MOT  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 12:47:23pm

This comic portrays evil characters that resemble and are identifiable as Jews based on old tired stereotypes. That is blatant anti-Semitism. Whether or not you believe the Jewish people's covenant with our God is mutilation is your problem. Jews have been circumcising 8 day old males for ever and this ritual is a religious one done in accordance with the law, both civil and religious. The baby does not suffer from this procedure physically or emotionally as you surely would based on your age.

12 John Vreeland  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 12:51:33pm

re: #9 Alouette

I am not calling everyone who disagrees with me an "Anti-Semite," but I am calling YOU an Anti-Semite since you put all traditional Jewish people into the category of sub humans.

What Locker said was, "Because it's mutilation of babies, it matters not how long it's been a 'tradition'." I do not see the word 'subhuman' or 'Jew' in there anyplace. I thought he was talking about people like me, and I am neither Jewish nor subhuman, I think. I might be somewhat traditional, though.

As for yourself, your rhetoric has half-convinced me that you are a lunatic. Try not to complete the process.

13 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 12:52:11pm

For a psychology of sexuality course I took we viewed interviews (pre-op) with men who went so far as cosmetic surgery to "restore" their foreskin. All of them were claiming that absence of a foreskin had made them feel incomplete, damaged, stunted: watching, alarm bells kept going off in my head that these fellows had all kinds of issues that they were projecting onto their circumcision. I was very disappointed they didn't do a follow-up interview a year later. The thematics in this comic suggest someone with similar issues is creating them...

This latest thing with the mohel was a grotesque caricature that wallows in multiple libels against the Jews, though. I can't see someone being that tone deaf yet running through a checklist of anti-Jewish canards. If this comic keeps marching along, I wonder who else will be targeted by "Foreskin Man."

---

On a crass, frivolous note, it does amuse me that amidst the garden-variety-in-the-worst-sense art, the linework of the hero's pectorals and coloring and shape of his chest blazon conspire to look like the underside of a frenulum. Either this is unintentional or the art team has devoted more time to secreting a peen tip onto the cover than they have to the rest of the comic.

14 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 12:55:47pm

re: #12 Vreejack

When somebody is really really into their religion they sometimes go to excessive lengths in the name of their faith.

*Altho I should be fair and say I don't get Locker's extremism on the issue either, seems a little over the top man.

~~~

I should note from personal experiences that you can get suspended or banned for making the kind of accusations in 4 and 9 tho'.

15 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:04:04pm

My "extremism" is based on personal experience of circumcision harm while reading that it's a "practice" or that it's "not harmful" or "just a tradition".

[Link: www.nocirc.org...]

16 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:05:20pm

re: #11 Proud MOT

The baby does not suffer from this procedure physically or emotionally as you surely would based on your age.

This is a lie AND I was circumcised as a baby.

17 Buck  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:07:12pm

re: #6 Locker

Actually you have other posts that hint to your antisemitism. I think that you blowing the "Evil Israel Lobby" dog whistle is also a strong indicator. In fact when Harvard professor Stephen Walt and University of Chicago professor John Mearsheimer said that sort of stuff, we all agreed it was anti-semetic.

The idea that you think that it doesn't matter how long this has been part of a culture (more than 3000 years) indicates to me that you very quick to dismiss the tenants of another persons culture when it suits you.

" just call me a Nazi for not wanting to get part of my dick chopped off."

Of course besides "Godwin"ing yourself....I wonder why you think someone is trying to chop off you dick?

18 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:08:53pm

re: #17 Buck

Actually you have other posts that hint to your antisemitism. I think that you blowing the "Evil Israel Lobby" dog whistle is also a strong indicator. In fact when Harvard professor Stephen Walt and University of Chicago professor John Mearsheimer said that sort of stuff, we all agreed it was anti-semetic.

The idea that you think that it doesn't matter how long this has been part of a culture (more than 3000 years) indicates to me that you very quick to dismiss the tenants of another persons culture when it suits you.

Of course besides "Godwin"ing yourself...I wonder why you think someone is trying to chop off you dick?

Someone DID chop off a part of my dick you fucking idiot.

19 Buck  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:12:08pm

re: #18 Locker

Someone DID chop off a part of my dick you fucking idiot.

and now you think it is reasonable to dismiss the culture and religion of millions because of that?

20 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:13:48pm

re: #17 Buck

Seriously tho', accusing somebody of being an anti-semite might as well be the Godwin of LGF (or the "unpatriotic" of 10 years ago).

Its a fairly common tool that people use to try to shut folks up, altho' I admit it used to be way worse, most of the folks that go into that kind of argument 'aren't with us anymore'.

21 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:14:28pm

I think it's reasonable that I don't want babies to have part of their dick chopped off. Is it reasonable for you and all the other "defenders" to ignore the harm? To just skip over, mitigate or pretend that no harm is happening?

Let me give you bucket heads a clue about using "religious tradition" as a defense for mutilating your kids:

[Link: friendlyatheist.com...]

22 Buck  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:17:56pm

re: #20 windsagio

Seriously tho', accusing somebody of being an anti-semite might as well be the Godwin of LGF (or the "unpatriotic" of 10 years ago).

Its a fairly common tool that people use to try to shut folks up, altho' I admit it used to be way worse, most of the folks that go into that kind of argument 'aren't with us anymore'.

Well, I gave another example, and detailed the charge. Unless it has become completely forbidden to point out anti-semitic behaviour...

23 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:18:51pm

re: #21 Locker

I think it's reasonable that I don't want babies to have part of their dick chopped off. Is it reasonable for you and all the other "defenders" to ignore the harm? To just skip over, mitigate or pretend that no harm is happening?

Let me give you bucket heads a clue about using "religious tradition" as a defense for mutilating your kids:

[Link: friendlyatheist.com...]

Save me from those for whom atheism is religious. Worst kind of fundies.

24 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:22:09pm

re: #22 Buck

Well, I gave another example, and detailed the charge. Unless it has become completely forbidden to point out anti-semitic behaviour...

Yea the charge that I posted a link. Do you or Alouette or any of you other accusers even know the definition of Anti-semitism??

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is "hatred toward Jews—individually and as a group—that can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity."[1] In its extreme form, it "attributes to the Jews an exceptional position among all other civilizations, defames them as an inferior group and denies their being part of the nation[s]" in which they reside.[2] A person who holds such views is called an "antisemite". Antisemitism may be manifested in many ways, ranging from individual expressions of hatred and discrimination against individual Jews to organized violent attacks by mobs, or even state police, or military attacks on entire Jewish communities. Extreme instances of persecution include the First Crusade of 1096, the expulsion from England in 1290, the Spanish Inquisition, the expulsion from Spain in 1492, the expulsion from Portugal in 1497, various pogroms, the Dreyfus Affair, and the Holocaust by Nazi Germany.

Yes that's right, hatred of Jews. Me not wanting babies to have part of their dick chopped off and me posting a link to a discussion about some political issue has NOTHING to do me hating Jews.

It's funny though that anytime anyone discusses anything at all which doesn't completely please the resident fanatics then that word is trotted out right quick.

25 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:22:35pm

re: #22 Buck

That's not a good charge, particularly :p Like I said, 'we all agreed'... its a tactic to suppress and discredit.

All the people on free republic 'agreed' that Obama was born in Kenya, but it was just a vector for their active dislike of the guy.

"Takes a position that many liberal Jews take" isn't so antisemitic.

26 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:23:25pm

re: #23 wlewisiii

ok as much as I feel people are going overboard on Locker here, I have to like that comment :p

27 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:25:21pm

re: #26 windsagio

ok as much as I feel people are going overboard on Locker here, I have to like that comment :p

I don't really hate it either as it seems to me that atheism requires just as much "faith" as lots of other mainstream religions. I'm guessing, based on his comment that he didn't click the link so I'll help the fellow out:

Good news out of Oregon: The loophole that gave religious parents a “Get Out of Jail Free” card when they killed their sick children by praying for them in lieu of taking them to a real doctor has been nixed.

28 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:31:51pm

Personally I am extremely happy not to have a foreskin and I'm very glad that I was circumcised. I don't want a foreskin, I have never needed a foreskin, and I feel no loss because of it's absence. Doing bush jobs where showers are unavailable for weeks at a time makes cleaning yourself up with a washcloth and questionably clean water is hard enough as it is without one.

I honestly do not understand some peoples reaction that it is somehow mutilation, to me it is simply common sense prevention. For every "negative" the anti crowd campaign on I can find a "Positive" in equally valid studies. This is a decision that should be left to the parents, even without stooping to religious preferences to justify it.

I just completely fail to see any valid reason for anyone to get caught up in or campaign about this issue. The thought of it as "mutilation" by anyone makes me more concerned with that persons own underlying issues than by the actual act itself. I'm not trying to dismiss their feelings out of hand as irrational, just saying that I myself cannot fathom it.

29 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:33:18pm

re: #28 ausador

I just completely fail to see any valid reason for anyone to get caught up in or campaign about this issue. The thought of it as "mutilation" by anyone makes me more concerned with that persons own underlying issues than by the actual act itself. I'm not trying to dismiss their feelings out of hand as irrational, just saying that I myself cannot fathom it.

It's not feelings, it's direct physical damage. How the hell can all these enlightened and educated people pretend there is no harm or risk in performing unnecessary surgery on a newborn?

30 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:34:06pm

Ohh and BTW, that "comic" is the product of some very sick puppies.

Nuff said.

31 Michael Orion Powell  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:42:14pm

re: #3 Locker

Because it's mutilation of babies, it matters not how long it's been a "tradition".

Okay, I noted in this article that it is not simply Jews but every Semitic religion that practices circumcision. We're now going into territory in which they must all be criminals as well. How is this not a violation of freedom of religion?

32 Buck  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:42:27pm

re: #24 Locker

Antisemitism may be manifested in many ways, ranging from individual expressions of hatred and discrimination against individual Jews

I think the key to your quote is that it is manifested in many ways and ranges. It isn't that you simply want to stop a practice for others that you wish had not happened to you, but you are at ease with dismissing the tenants of another persons long standing culture when it suits you. It has not been 10 years, or even 100 years, but it has been more than 3000 years. And it has been accepted by the millions of people who practice that religion all that time. Not a small minority of Jews accept this, but the overwhelming majority.

You dismiss that very easily.

33 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:43:28pm

And you dismiss direct physical harm to babies who can't defend themselves. You talk and talk and talk but never address this prime issue of my position. How about ponying up and addressing it.

34 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 1:44:39pm

re: #31 OrionXP

Okay, I noted in this article that it is not simply Jews but every Semitic religion that practices circumcision. We're now going into territory in which they must all be criminals as well. How is this not a violation of freedom of religion?

Is it a violation of freedom of religion that it's illegal to stone women for adultery? It it a violation of freedom of religion that you can't get an "eye for an eye"?

35 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:01:30pm

re: #33 Locker

And you dismiss direct physical harm to babies who can't defend themselves. You talk and talk and talk but never address this prime issue of my position. How about ponying up and addressing it.

I dismiss it as harm, period.

Easier hygiene, reduced risk of common infections, reduced risk of STD transmission, increase in function (as far as your partner is concerned) due to "some" studies saying it results in slightly reduced stimulation*, etc, etc...

*I don't know about you but I have had orgasms that were so intense during intercourse I couldn't stand any more stimulation. "No, No, Don't move, don't move." ;)

If having a foreskin would make that worse and decrease my...uhh...time to reaching climax then good riddance! :P

[This has been a FAR TMI post brought to you by ausador]

36 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:03:41pm

re: #35 ausador

You know about me because I'm telling you I've had direct, physical damage but everyone seems to want to pretend that isn't being said so here I took the liberty:

[Link: www.google.com...]

About 5 seconds of looking at those results should prove my point.

37 What, me worry?  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:19:35pm

This comic is absolute proof that the San Fran law they're trying to get on the ballot against circumcision is anti-Semitic. It's complete, unadultered anti-Semitism created by the man, Matthew Hess, who is behind the San Fran bill (see mgmbill.org). It doesn't get much clearer than that.

38 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:23:55pm

Gee all these down dings, accusations, attacking, piling on and yet not a SINGLE one of you wants to address the physical harm aspect of circumcision. You people are like NRA members who think someone is trying to take away their guns by quoting gun death statistics.

Here is the long and short of it. Circumcision causes direct, visible, lifelong, PHYSICAL harm to lots and lots of men. It doesn't matter why you cut it off, it doesn't matter who cut it off, it doesn't matter what guy in the sky you pray to or don't pray to it's still harmful.

All your prattle and rattle doesn't give you a leg to stand on. You can't cut off part of your newborn's earlobe with pliers and defend the action by saying it's "tradition" and you shouldn't be able to do with with a penis either.

39 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:27:09pm

1. You never directly said that before now that I saw, and I'm very sorry to hear it.

2. Most reputable medical studies put the instance of "Serious complications" at far below 1%. Par for most forms of "routine surgery" just being in the hospital is more dangerous to you than the procedure is unfortunately. The rate of secondary infections acquired while in a hospital is skyrocketing currently.

40 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:27:40pm

re: #38 Locker

I recall asking you on the previous, 250-comment thread, to describe the nature of the irreparable harm you have allegedly suffered. Which you refused. Therefore, you have given no real justification for declaring an entire population subhuman.

And you know this is not a personal quarrel with Alouette.

41 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:27:44pm

re: #38 Locker

Interestingly enough, I will. I think you're massively exaggerating the harm, its not as open-and-shut as you're presenting it.

Beyond that it does actually have at least some advantages. Maybe not worth the harm, but nevertheless.

I guess what I'm saying is there's a pro-and-con on the subject, it'd be worth treating as such.

42 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:28:09pm

re: #40 Alouette

subhuman? I missed that one >

43 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:28:26pm

re: #39 ausador

1. You never directly said that before now that I saw, and I'm very sorry to hear it.

2. Most reputable medical studies put the instance of "Serious complications" at far below 1%. Par for most forms of "routine surgery" just being in the hospital is more dangerous to you than the procedure is unfortunately. The rate of secondary infections acquired while in a hospital is skyrocketing currently.

Did you read the source material I provided? Did you look at the botched circumcision hit list?

44 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:29:01pm

re: #42 windsagio

subhuman? I missed that one >

"Child mutilators" "torturers" "butchers" "child abusers" how can such people be anything but subhuman?

45 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:30:37pm

re: #41 windsagio

Interestingly enough, I will. I think you're massively exaggerating the harm, its not as open-and-shut as you're presenting it.

Beyond that it does actually have at least some advantages. Maybe not worth the harm, but nevertheless.

I guess what I'm saying is there's a pro-and-con on the subject, it'd be worth treating as such.

Hey, a discussion! I will, however, reserve the right to decide if I'm massively exaggerating after several surgeries to correct the problem and it's affects on other functions.

46 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:31:33pm

re: #44 Alouette

"Child mutilators" "torturers" "butchers" "child abusers" how can such people be anything but subhuman?

How can anyone see that you made up this term and labeled me with it to avoid discussing the issue, which you still have not done. Are you really that afraid?

47 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:35:39pm

re: #44 Alouette

Umm easily?

Locker's said some pretty messed up, ugly things on this subject, I'm not gonna deny it.

That being said, that kind of implication, well its just dishonest.

48 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:36:20pm

re: #45 Locker

well the 'corrective' surgery can have its on complications and problems too, you're seriously better off leaving it alone at this point :p

49 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:38:25pm

re: #48 windsagio

well the 'corrective' surgery can have its on complications and problems too, you're seriously better off leaving it alone at this point :p

I'm seriously better off since I've had my corrective surgeries. Just like I was seriously worse off because of the stupid circumcision in the first place. How about we just let someone make that decision on their own?

50 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:39:35pm

re: #6 Locker

Alouette are you able to have a discussion about anything within 200 miles of the subject of Judaism without calling anyone who disagrees with you an anti-semite? How about you actually address the subject without resorting to this bullshit rhetoric.

Then again you could just call me a Nazi for not wanting to get part of my dick chopped off...sure seems in character for you.


So let's be clear...

Losing a foreskin is not like losing a finger or a hand. It is not some form of mutilation and it has a number of health benefits. To be fair the advantages of losing the foreskin have gone down somewhat with the advent of modern plumbing, better hygiene and regular washing. However, in a dry desert area where sand gets everywhere, a foreskin is a hindrance. Guys with the v-neck never have to worry about all sorts of nasty buildups either...

Now what amuses me about liberal whining about this is that people in SF are the first freaks to defend getting a Prince Albert .

As to the religious significance of the Brit Milah, I won't bother trying to explain that to you, you wouldn't get it, and you would not care to try.

You are being purposefully obtuse, willfully ignorant and insulting.

As a matter of fact, you are the most annoying kind of tool, the one who is so ridiculously ignorant and full of his own shit that he doesn't even see he is spreading anti-semitic garbage.

51 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:39:37pm

So how do you feel about the "comic" Locker?

52 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:40:58pm

re: #47 windsagio

Umm easily?

Locker's said some pretty messed up, ugly things on this subject, I'm not gonna deny it.

That being said, that kind of implication, well its just dishonest.

And the other defender of any left wing anti-Jewishness shows up right on schedule. If you get WUB here, we will have a trifecta.

53 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:42:40pm

re: #50 LudwigVanQuixote

Lets be clear, you just ignored all my personal experience in favor of flaming me, just like some of these other dumb asses. YOU are being purposefully obtuse, willfully ignorant and insulting.

Since almost all babies are automatically circumcised in this country (I was) REGARDLESS of religious background, then how the fuck is it anti-semitic to be against infant circumcision?

I expect more from you man, seriously.

54 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:44:37pm

re: #52 LudwigVanQuixote

And the other defender of any left wing anti-Jewishness shows up right on schedule. If you get WUB here, we will have a trifecta.

Get over yourself. Find ONE thing I've EVER said in my entire history on LGF about hating Jews, marginalizing Jews, treating anyone different because they are or aren't Jewish.

You and your fanatical cronies aren't interested in discussion, you might as well be wiki editors determined to shape reality to meet your twisted perspective.

55 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:45:19pm

re: #52 LudwigVanQuixote

heh, we were actually being pretty civil in here ludwig, even with people calling locker antisemitic.

raging out (again) sure adds to the discussion...


~~~

That's the whole thing tho', isn't it? This is one of those subjects that is too near and dear to people hearts to be discussed rationally.

Hope constantly springs anew tho'!

56 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:45:22pm

re: #53 Locker

Lets be clear, you just ignored all my personal experience in favor of flaming me, just like some of these other dumb asses. YOU are being purposefully obtuse, willfully ignorant and insulting.

Since almost all babies are automatically circumcised in this country (I was) REGARDLESS of religious background, then how the fuck is it anti-semitic to be against infant circumcision?

I expect more from you man, seriously.

Really, just out of curiosity, do you think I might have my own, very personal, experience with circumcision? Could it be that I ignored everything you were talking about because I have experienced (and neither have any of my v-neck friends experienced) any of the exaggerated negatives you claim?

57 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:45:25pm

re: #51 ausador

So how do you feel about the "comic" Locker?

Don't know, didn't read it, I'm not into comics.

58 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:46:11pm

re: #57 Locker

you could have just said 'man the cover was really disgusting, I didn't wanna see the rest', you look like you're dodging with that comment.

59 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:46:22pm

People can we please dispense with the ad hominem attacks? This can be discussed, and would be better discussed, without throwing around accusations of racial bias and anti-semitism.

60 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:46:37pm

re: #56 LudwigVanQuixote

Really, just out of curiosity, do you think I might have my own, very personal, experience with circumcision? Could it be that I ignored everything you were talking about because I have experienced (and neither have any of my v-neck friends experienced) any of the exaggerated negatives you claim?

How the hell would you know if my "claims" are exaggerated since you aren't me, you haven't seen my dick and you didn't go through what I went through? Oh right because EVERYONE is wrong who isn't on your side of things.

61 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:47:05pm

re: #55 windsagio

Windy, I generally like you.

You know full well the things we disagree on. Defending Lockers hysterical comments is a dangerous topic for you. What you don't know and should perhaps consider is that one of the first things oppressors have done to eliminate Jews through the ages was to eliminate circumcision.

62 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:47:45pm

re: #56 LudwigVanQuixote

Really, just out of curiosity, do you think I might have my own, very personal, experience with circumcision? Could it be that I ignored everything you were talking about because I have NOT experienced (and neither have any of my v-neck friends experienced) any of the exaggerated negatives you claim?

PIMF

63 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:47:57pm

re: #58 windsagio

you could have just said 'man the cover was really disgusting, I didn't wanna see the rest', you look like you're dodging with that comment.

What I thought about the cover was that the guy on the left looked like foreskin man because he looks like he's made of foreskins. That's about all the thought I gave before I answered the bullshit insinuation in the second comment.

64 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:48:49pm

re: #61 LudwigVanQuixote

Windy, I generally like you.

You know full well the things we disagree on. Defending Lockers hysterical comments is a dangerous topic for you. What you don't know and should perhaps consider is that one of the first things oppressors have done to eliminate Jews through the ages was to eliminate circumcision.

So now you are trying to silence a voice of dissent by saying it's a dangerous topic? I didn't realize you were the Czar who decides who gets to talk about what.

65 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:49:52pm

re: #60 Locker

How the hell would you know if my "claims" are exaggerated since you aren't me, you haven't seen my dick and you didn't go through what I went through? Oh right because EVERYONE is wrong who isn't on your side of things.

NO, because, dude, I really don't care about your dick. I know I and all of my cut friends have ones that work perfectly well.

You may have had complications. I am sorry. However, the only one hysterical is you. The only one lashing out crazily is you.

Clearly, the results are not so bad in general.

As to me disagreeing with you and therefore you are oppressed... get over yourself. You are being an ass.

66 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:52:41pm

re: #65 LudwigVanQuixote

Ok so this entire thread is full of people calling me an anti-semite but I'm the one who's hysterical? This is the funniest thing you've said though..

As to me disagreeing with you and therefore you are oppressed... get over yourself. You are being an ass.

How the hell can you say this when the entire history of comments on this subject is a bunch of people acting like I'm oppressing them for advocating against unnecessary surgery on infants.

67 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:53:07pm

re: #61 LudwigVanQuixote

I've gone out of my way to say I think Locker's more than a bit of an extremist on this subject anyways.

I understand your logic, and (as I've said in depth) I feel that you're misrepresenting peoples motivations (well I'm sure that there are some, but). And understanding how you came to your position doesn't mean I have to think you're right :p

Locker is actually a perfect example of (most of) the people behind this law. He really doesn't hate Jews, but rather for whatever reason feels exceptionally strongly about this subject. Jumping to saying he just hates Jews or considers them 'subhuman' is more than unfair, its also destructive.

68 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:53:14pm

re: #64 Locker

Yes, yes, the brave lone voice of sanity stands out against everyone else... His data is being silenced by oppressive forces...


Again...

I am very sorry about your issues.

I have not had any problems at all like that.

Neither have any of my friends.

In fact, most non-Jews are circumcised in this nation too for the same health benefits mentioned.

Therefore what you are talking about can not be true in general and hence you are wildly exaggerating.

69 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:53:57pm

re: #68 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, yes, the brave lone voice of sanity stands out against everyone else... His data is being silenced by oppressive forces...

Again...

I am very sorry about your issues.

I have not had any problems at all like that.

Neither have any of my friends.

In fact, most non-Jews are circumcised in this nation too for the same health benefits mentioned.

Therefore what you are talking about can not be true in general and hence you are wildly exaggerating.

How about you go click the two links I provided and then see if you can still say that with a straight face.

70 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:54:20pm

re: #68 LudwigVanQuixote

To be honest I think he feels pushed into the corner, and is to some degree reacting to the actually quite brutal attacks he's been subject to.

Its a pretty natural, if not great reaction.

71 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:56:20pm

re: #67 windsagio

He really doesn't hate Jews... just things that define Jewishness, like circumcision.

He really doesn't hate Jews just Zionism...

He really doesn't hate Jews just things that define Jewishness like Jews living in Israel...

Or not having mosques on their holy sites...

Or making an eruv (another SF flap)...

Notice what I wrote very carefully about this:

As a matter of fact, you are the most annoying kind of tool, the one who is so ridiculously ignorant and full of his own shit that he doesn't even see he is spreading anti-semitic garbage.

This at times applies to you as well...

72 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:56:27pm

re: #70 windsagio

To be honest I think he feels pushed into the corner, and is to some degree reacting to the actually quite brutal attacks he's been subject to.

Its a pretty natural, if not great reaction.

What I feel like is that I'm not allowed to voice an opinion on the subject.

That any opinion at all that isn't "with the majority" is labeled as anti-semetic, over and over and over even when the "dissenter" has said nothing about religion, or singling anyone out or persecuting anyone.

73 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:57:44pm

re: #69 Locker

How about you go click the two links I provided and then see if you can still say that with a straight face.

Umm duder, which part of I have my own perfectly happy circumcised member is missing from your comprehension?

74 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:57:51pm

re: #71 LudwigVanQuixote

I think its possible to define circumcision outside of Jewishness, you don't own it :p

The whole problem is that you can't differentiate the cultural and religious identity from things outside it.


....

Wait, did you actually just bring up the Dome of the Rock?

75 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:57:52pm

re: #71 LudwigVanQuixote

He really doesn't hate Jews... just things that define Jewishness, like circumcision.

He really doesn't hate Jews just Zionism...

He really doesn't hate Jews just things that define Jewishness like Jews living in Israel...

Or not having mosques on their holy sites...

Or making an eruv (another SF flap)...

Notice what I wrote very carefully about this:

As a matter of fact, you are the most annoying kind of tool, the one who is so ridiculously ignorant and full of his own shit that he doesn't even see he is spreading anti-semitic garbage.

This at times applies to you as well...

What the fuck is wrong with you? Do you just invent shit? Lets see any references to me saying any of that shit. You are using your inflammatory terms, rhetoric and even inventing things I've said in order to "win" your argument.

76 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:58:24pm

re: #73 LudwigVanQuixote

Umm duder, which part of I have my own perfectly happy circumcised member is missing from your comprehension?

Did I say that every circumcision causes harm?

77 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:59:40pm

re: #74 windsagio

I think its possible to define circumcision outside of Jewishness, you don't own it :p

The whole problem is that you can't differentiate the cultural and religious identity from things outside it.

...

Wait, did you actually just bring up the Dome of the Rock?

Amongst other things yes. It amuses me you think that is trivial.

Like I said the analysis applies to you...

78 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 2:59:59pm

re: #74 windsagio

I think its possible to define circumcision outside of Jewishness, you don't own it :p

The whole problem is that you can't differentiate the cultural and religious identity from things outside it.

You know, you'd think that any rational, logical person would come to this conclusion. I guess some folks just have a vested interested in demonizing anyone who doesn't agree with them.

79 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:00:30pm

re: #75 Locker

There was a PIMF missing there I apologize:

I should have said:

He really doesn't hate Jews... just things that define Jewishness, like circumcision.

Compare this to:

He really doesn't hate Jews just Zionism...

He really doesn't hate Jews just things that define Jewishness like Jews living in Israel...

Or not having mosques on their holy sites...

Or making an eruv (another SF flap)...

Notice what I wrote very carefully about this:

As a matter of fact, you are the most annoying kind of tool, the one who is so ridiculously ignorant and full of his own shit that he doesn't even see he is spreading anti-semitic garbage.

This at times applies to you as well...

80 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:01:58pm

re: #78 Locker

It's just naked religious fanaticism.

No different than Harold Camping or Pat Robertson.

81 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:02:29pm

I think I'm done, from here on out its only trading insults.

Y'all have fun.

82 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:04:29pm

I don't hate Jewish, I don't dislike Jews, I dislike chopping off parts of a baby's dick, especially mine.

Some of you hard liners seem to forget one thing. Lot's of people AREN'T Jewish and don't have your background, knowledge, history or nuanced understanding of every minute issue. Nor do our world or thoughts revolve around these issues.

Sorry if you can't fathom someone not wanting to have part of his dick cut off without it being an attack on some specific religion but I'm hear to tell you, it's true in this case.

83 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:06:14pm

re: #80 windsagio

It's just naked religious fanaticism.

No different than Harold Camping or Pat Robertson.

OR your naked anti-religious fanaticism with a dose of butthurt. Project much?

84 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:06:28pm

re: #57 Locker

Don't know, didn't read it, I'm not into comics.

Blah...extremely lame bullshit is lame.

If your going to discuss a post how about actually looking at what it is about? Perhaps then you might understand what the other posters are commenting on and why they feel defending it might be anti-semitic.

Or does your own personal experience somehow excuse you from even knowing what you are commenting on?

85 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:06:47pm

re: #84 ausador

Blah...extremely lame bullshit is lame.

If your going to discuss a post how about actually looking at what it is about? Perhaps then you might understand what the other posters are commenting on and why they feel defending it might be anti-semitic.

Or does your own personal experience somehow excuse you from even knowing what you are commenting on?

I didn't comment on the comic.

86 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:07:12pm

People are arguing over whether removing a small strip of skin from the tip of a newborn's penis at (or very near) time of birth is mutilation?

What next? Protectors of the Umbilical Cord, which is actually much more traumatic to the newborn because of the number of blood vessels and nerve endings involved?

87 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:07:25pm

re: #83 LudwigVanQuixote

OR your naked anti-religious fanaticism with a dose of butthurt. Project much?

How else would you explain the arsenal of accusations I've withstood in this thread?

88 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:08:20pm

re: #86 RadicalModerate

People are arguing over whether removing a small strip of skin from the tip of a newborn's penis at (or very near) time of birth is mutilation?

What next? Protectors of the Umbilical Cord, which is actually much more traumatic to the newborn because of the number of blood vessels and nerve endings involved?

How much mutilation is ok? Foreskin ok? Female circumcision? Earlobes clipped? Nose tip cut off? Infant tattoos? What's the line?

89 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:09:39pm

re: #87 Locker

How else would you explain the arsenal of accusations I've withstood in this thread?

I already did... Twice:

You are being the most annoying kind of tool, the one who is so ridiculously ignorant and full of his own shit that he doesn't even see he is spreading anti-semitic garbage.

What you don't know and should perhaps consider is that one of the first things oppressors have done to eliminate Jews through the ages was to eliminate circumcision.

90 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:11:04pm

re: #70 windsagio

To be honest I think he feels pushed into the corner, and is to some degree reacting to the actually quite brutal attacks he's been subject to.

Its a pretty natural, if not great reaction.

Dude, he's afraid of people being able to express their religion. He can't accept that this is as important to someone as his fantasy that Each And Every Circumcised Baby Has Suffered Irreparable and Immense Harm. I may be incorrect but that level of hyperbola is what I am getting out of him.

Sorry but history shows otherwise.

History also shows that ever since the attempts at Hellenization of the Jews in the pre-Hasmonean period, circumcision has been used as a weapon against Jews by their enemies. Locker, ISTM, is unwilling to understand or accept that history and as a result I find his concerns hard to accept.

91 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:11:44pm

re: #89 LudwigVanQuixote

I already did... Twice:

You are being the most annoying kind of tool, the one who is so ridiculously ignorant and full of his own shit that he doesn't even see he is spreading anti-semitic garbage.

What you don't know and should perhaps consider is that one of the first things oppressors have done to eliminate Jews through the ages was to eliminate circumcision.

So your contention is that I'm trying to eliminate Jews? It must be since you just called me an anti-semite... again.

92 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:13:30pm

re: #88 Locker

How much mutilation is ok? Foreskin ok? Female circumcision? Earlobes clipped? Nose tip cut off? Infant tattoos? What's the line?

Female circumcision is mutilation, as it actually removes part of the female sex organ (not just skin, but typically damages or removes the clitoris).

Both the "nose tip" and "earlobes clipped" arguments are complete non-starters, as I have never heard of either of these ever taking place - especially in any widespread fashion, and unlike male circumcision, have no known long-term health benefits.

By the way, if you do bother to look at the "Foreskin Man" comic, you'll notice that there is a significant white supremacist bent to the comic.

93 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:14:03pm

re: #91 Locker

Dude, on the contrary, did not accuse you of that. I accused you of being ignorant and hysterical to the extent of not realizing how anti-semitic the garbage you are spreading is.

94 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:14:39pm

re: #93 LudwigVanQuixote

Dude, on the contrary, did not accuse you of that. I accused you of being ignorant and hysterical to the extent of not realizing how anti-semitic the garbage you are spreading is.

So if I don't realize it, how is it anti-semetic since that term is defined as a hatred of jews?

95 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:15:18pm

re: #90 wlewisiii

Dude, he's afraid of people being able to express their religion. He can't accept that this is as important to someone as his fantasy that Each And Every Circumcised Baby Has Suffered Irreparable and Immense Harm. I may be incorrect but that level of hyperbola is what I am getting out of him.

Sorry but history shows otherwise.

History also shows that ever since the attempts at Hellenization of the Jews in the pre-Hasmonean period, circumcision has been used as a weapon against Jews by their enemies. Locker, ISTM, is unwilling to understand or accept that history and as a result I find his concerns hard to accept.

And here we find the left as ignorant and opinionated as the right.

Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.

I suppose I let it all piss me off a lot more though.

96 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:15:46pm

re: #72 Locker

What I feel like is that I'm not allowed to voice an opinion on the subject.

That any opinion at all that isn't "with the majority" is labeled as anti-semetic, over and over and over even when the "dissenter" has said nothing about religion, or singling anyone out or persecuting anyone.

You have voiced an opinion but you went over a line when you called me (not me, Alouette, personally, just Alouette, the Jew) a "child abuser" a "torturer" a "mutilator" and a "butcher" and then pretending that it had nothing to do with the observance of Judaism.

Then you cried and said your feelings were hurt when I said you displayed symptoms of anti-Semitism. This is after you called me a "child abuser" a "torturer" a "mutilator" and a "butcher." So which insults are more hurtful?

Get over your drama queening self.

97 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:17:10pm

re: #94 Locker

So if I don't realize it, how is it anti-semetic since that term is defined as a hatred of jews?

Are you really honestly that obtuse...

You can't be...

OK, if someone were to use a terrible racial slur, without realizing it, and then started saying it was true, the slur would still be a terrible racial slur even though the speaker was just being an ignorant douche.

98 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:17:21pm

re: #94 Locker

So if I don't realize it, how is it anti-semetic since that term is defined as a hatred of jews?

Hatred of a defining characteristic of Jews is the same as hatred of Jews.

99 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:17:39pm

Hey this could be fun... I can make shit up too...

Alouette how dare you call me a "nazi", "jew hater", "white supremacist" and then cry and say your feeling are hurt because I don't want part of my dick chopped off.

Hey, that WAS fun.

100 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:17:55pm

I have to go out and buy eggs. brb

101 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:18:27pm

re: #99 Locker

Hey this could be fun... I can make shit up too...

Alouette how dare you call me a "nazi", "jew hater", "white supremacist" and then cry and say your feeling are hurt because I don't want part of my dick chopped off.

Hey, that WAS fun.

You forgot "douche" and "asshole"

102 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:18:49pm

re: #98 Alouette

Hatred of a defining characteristic of Jews is the same as hatred of Jews.

That's your stupid, idiotic opinion both that my circumcision is a defining characteristics of a a jew and that it's the same as hating Jews. You should write fiction.

103 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:19:15pm

re: #99 Locker

Hey this could be fun... I can make shit up too...

Alouette how dare you call me a "nazi", "jew hater", "white supremacist" and then cry and say your feeling are hurt because I don't want part of my dick chopped off.

Hey, that WAS fun.

Dude, you are really just digging.

I realize it is too fine a point for you, but one more time. I don't really think you are a full bore Jew hater. I think you are an ignorant drama queen who doesn't realize how much his "message" echoes and spreads Jew hatred.

104 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:20:11pm

re: #97 LudwigVanQuixote

Are you really honestly that obtuse...

You can't be...

OK, if someone were to use a terrible racial slur, without realizing it, and then started saying it was true, the slur would still be a terrible racial slur even though the speaker was just being an ignorant douche.

Yea and you could go to England and walk around telling every guy who asks for a "fag" that he's an ignorant douche bag or you could just understand the terms "context" and "intent" and not be such a jerk.

105 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:21:15pm

re: #103 LudwigVanQuixote

Dude, you are really just digging.

I realize it is too fine a point for you, but one more time. I don't really think you are a full bore Jew hater. I think you are an ignorant drama queen who doesn't realize how much his "message" echoes and spreads Jew hatred.

So no one is allowed to advocate against circumcision without it being a "message" that "echoes" and "spreads Jew hatred"?

106 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:21:26pm

re: #104 Locker

Yea and you could go to England and walk around telling every guy who asks for a "fag" that he's an ignorant douche bag or you could just understand the terms "context" and "intent" and not be such a jerk.

And yet the Brits would recognize that comic as seriously anti-semitic.

I am starting to become angry with you.

107 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:22:08pm

re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote

And yet the Brits would recognize that comic as seriously anti-semitic.

I am starting to become angry with you.

Gee and I'm just all warm and fuzzy with you after your initial comment full of rage, insult and a bunch of fundamentalist ranting.

108 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:22:16pm

re: #105 Locker

So no one is allowed to advocate against circumcision without it being a "message" that "echoes" and "spreads Jew hatred"?

poor poor oppressed...

As a matter of fact Locker, you can debate the merits of it medically in medical terms - not the outrageous hyperbole you are using.

109 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:23:03pm

re: #3 Locker

Because it's mutilation of babies, it matters not how long it's been a "tradition".

Locker, regardless of what your feelings are about circumcision, are you actually able to look at this, and not see raw, blatant, demonization and anti-Semitism?

110 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:23:04pm

re: #108 LudwigVanQuixote

poor poor oppressed...

As a matter of fact Locker, you can debate the merits of it medically in medical terms - not the outrageous hyperbole you are using.

What outrageous hyperbole? I've been TRYING to discuss it medically the entire time while enduring an onslaught of this anti-semite labeling bullshit.

111 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:23:22pm

re: #107 Locker

Gee and I'm just all warm and fuzzy with you after your initial comment full of rage, insult and a bunch of fundamentalist ranting.

Locker, you see anyone who believes in God as a fundamentalist. So do all of your little friends here like Windy and WUb. It occurs to me that you have never met a fundamentalist and have no concept of what the word means.

112 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:23:41pm

re: #6 Locker

Alouette are you able to have a discussion about anything within 200 miles of the subject of Judaism without calling anyone who disagrees with you an anti-semite? How about you actually address the subject without resorting to this bullshit rhetoric.

Then again you could just call me a Nazi for not wanting to get part of my dick chopped off...sure seems in character for you.

Fuck you, dude.

THIS is anti-Semitism. This comic book. If you can't see that, you're having reality issues.

113 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:23:43pm

re: #109 SanFranciscoZionist

Locker, regardless of what your feelings are about circumcision, are you actually able to look at this, and not see raw, blatant, demonization and anti-Semitism?

No, I don't see it, at all. I never mentioned Jews, it's not just Jews that circumcise in this country.

114 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:24:10pm

re: #112 SanFranciscoZionist

Fuck you, dude.

THIS is anti-Semitism. This comic book. If you can't see that, you're having reality issues.

I made no comments on the comic book other than the cover when I was point blank pressed for a comment.

115 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:24:34pm

re: #111 LudwigVanQuixote

Locker, you see anyone who believes in God as a fundamentalist. So do all of your little friends here like Windy and WUb. It occurs to me that you have never met a fundamentalist and have no concept of what the word means.

I'm talking to one right... now.

116 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:24:50pm

One other thought on this.

From my understanding, the vast majority of hospitals will not perform a circumcision if a parent requests it not be done. It is by no means a mandatory procedure, just a customary one.

The proposal of outright banning of the procedure in my opinion is specifically targeted at restricting the religious freedom of a particular group of people.

117 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:25:20pm

re: #116 RadicalModerate

One other thought on this.

From my understanding, the vast majority of hospitals will not perform a circumcision if a parent requests it not be done. It is by no means a mandatory procedure, just a customary one.

The proposal of outright banning of the procedure in my opinion is specifically targeted at restricting the religious freedom of a particular group of people.

I'm for banning infant circumcision. If an adult wants to chop, let em chop.

118 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:26:22pm

re: #37 marjoriemoon

This comic is absolute proof that the San Fran law they're trying to get on the ballot against circumcision is anti-Semitic. It's complete, unadultered anti-Semitism created by the man, Matthew Hess, who is behind the San Fran bill (see mgmbill.org). It doesn't get much clearer than that.

Let's just say that if the intactivists of California want to be taken seriously at this point as non-haters who are concerned for children, their first move should probably be to have Matthew Hess surgically removed from their organizations.

119 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:27:05pm

re: #111 LudwigVanQuixote

Locker, you see anyone who believes in God as a fundamentalist. So do all of your little friends here like Windy and WUb. It occurs to me that you have never met a fundamentalist and have no concept of what the word means.

The sad part is his _is_ a fundamentalist. That's what I was really saying in #23. But that went over his head apparently.

120 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:27:08pm

re: #115 Locker

I'm talking to one right... now.

no you are not...

not even close...

All the defense of gay rights I write...

The pro choice stance I make...

The generally not freaked out about sex, or pre-marital sex - or anyone's personal private sexual choices involving consenting adults stance I take...

The evolution happened stance I take...

You have no concept of what the word fundamentalist means. It marks you even more as an ignorant drama queen. I am sorry you are feeling oppressed right now.

But you are being a douche.

121 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:27:12pm

Carpool. Later. You guys can pick up calling me an anti-semite on the next weewee chopping thread. Peace.

122 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:27:58pm

re: #119 wlewisiii

The sad part is his _is_ a fundamentalist. That's what I was really saying in #23. But that went over his head apparently.

Of course. Much projection on this thread.

123 Locker  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:28:06pm

re: #120 LudwigVanQuixote

You should sign up to be a Republican. You bitch that I'm an oppressor then you crack on me for being oppressed. I don't see a future for you in any sort of impartial referee career.

124 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:28:10pm

re: #57 Locker

Don't know, didn't read it, I'm not into comics.

Then shut the fuck up, because the comic is going to be a pretty big problem for a movement you clearly feel very, very strongly about.

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:29:35pm

re: #67 windsagio

I've gone out of my way to say I think Locker's more than a bit of an extremist on this subject anyways.

I understand your logic, and (as I've said in depth) I feel that you're misrepresenting peoples motivations (well I'm sure that there are some, but). And understanding how you came to your position doesn't mean I have to think you're right :p

Locker is actually a perfect example of (most of) the people behind this law. He really doesn't hate Jews, but rather for whatever reason feels exceptionally strongly about this subject. Jumping to saying he just hates Jews or considers them 'subhuman' is more than unfair, its also destructive.

He's demonstrated that he truly doesn't give a shit about the fact that a movement he apparently subscribes to is distributing violent anti-Semitic literature.

126 What, me worry?  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:30:16pm

re: #118 SanFranciscoZionist

Let's just say that if the intactivists of California want to be taken seriously at this point as non-haters who are concerned for children, their first move should probably be to have Matthew Hess surgically removed from their organizations.

I'll go for that.

I'm also giving Mr. Orion Powell the special Lizard Hamster prize (once I figure out what that might be) if this thread goes over 300 posts.

127 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:30:47pm

re: #111 LudwigVanQuixote

Stupid spy ruins everything.

I accidentally broke my rule of never coming back to a page once pulled out.

That being said, if you remember I'm specifically religious and very specifically Christian (If anything I'm anti-atheist. Ask around).

Beyond that, I grew up in a fundamentalist family, and still have relatives that are literally Young-Earth Creationists.

That particular subject is something I definitely know a whole bunch about :p

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:31:04pm

re: #109 SanFranciscoZionist

Locker, regardless of what your feelings are about circumcision, are you actually able to look at this, and not see raw, blatant, demonization and anti-Semitism?

By 'this' I mean the cartoon. Sorry, that was vague.

129 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:31:33pm

re: #114 Locker

I made no comments on the comic book other than the cover when I was point blank pressed for a comment.

Because it means nothing to you.

130 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:33:43pm

re: #127 windsagio

Stupid spy ruins everything.

I accidentally broke my rule of never coming back to a page once pulled out.

That being said, if you remember I'm specifically religious and very specifically Christian (If anything I'm anti-atheist. Ask around).

Beyond that, I grew up in a fundamentalist family, and still have relatives that are literally Young-Earth Creationists.

That particular subject is something I definitely know a whole bunch about :p

I will be fair and apologize to you. I do sometimes mix up things you have written with things WUB has written.

For certain his meme is to call people fundies as well as Locker just did twice - with little clue what it means.

131 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:34:29pm

re: #109 SanFranciscoZionist

Locker, regardless of what your feelings are about circumcision, are you actually able to look at this, and not see raw, blatant, demonization and anti-Semitism?

He claims he didn't look at it, I asked already, so apparently this is all just raw visceral emotion on his part with nothing at all to do with attempting to defend or comment on the "comic"...

*cough* bullshit *cough*

132 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:35:16pm

re: #130 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you :D

on the subject, WUB is actually very areligious, I think he finds any extreme views on the subject baffling.

133 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:36:31pm

re: #132 windsagio

Thank you :D

on the subject, WUB is actually very areligious, I think he finds any extreme views on the subject baffling.

Again, given my no problem with gay people stance and any number of other stances I have taken here, calling me a fundie shows extreme ignorance of what extreme means.

134 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:39:29pm

Note to self: GAZE the douche drama queen from now on.

135 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:42:14pm

re: #133 LudwigVanQuixote

Well here's the thing. I don't abate from the position, but I also don't want to go further into what essentially would be insulting you (I lost my temper earlier).

You certainly have pretty extreme positions on some of these subjects, and that's for a website that's definitely on conservative side on the issue. The interesting thing is that its very compartmentalized. That's why I attribute it to religion.

136 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:42:27pm

re: #134 Alouette

Lol, "GAZE". Hi mandy :p

137 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:44:09pm

re: #135 windsagio

Well here's the thing. I don't abate from the position, but I also don't want to go further into what essentially would be insulting you (I lost my temper earlier).

You certainly have pretty extreme positions on some of these subjects, and that's for a website that's definitely on conservative side on the issue. The interesting thing is that its very compartmentalized. That's why I attribute it to religion.

And that shows as proof positive that you have never spoken to any actually right wing Jewish people.

Remarkable.

138 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:46:16pm

The comic is grossly antisemitic. That much is obvious IMO. It is really disappointing how liberals sometimes latch onto antisemitism when it comes to things like Israel or circumcision. It's probably more of that tribal "whatever the republicans are for I'm against" mindset.

Personally though, I'm extremely glad that my parents didn't have me circumcised. I'm ambivalent about it's application when the family feels it is part of their religious duty. But I'm wholly against it when it is so "he will be like daddy". I'm also glad that they didn't put me at risk for not having a functional dick. Sure 1% isn't much risk, but I'm sure that doesn't console the people without a working penis. Nor would I be too happy about less pleasure, sex is quite enjoyable as-is. As for cleanliness in the desert, it isn't really a big deal. I have lived in the desert southwest for much of my life. When you are stuck without a shower no matter where you are you should still be regularly cleaning your genital area, regardless of being circumcised or not. That can be accomplished with a moist rag, or even without water such as the Romans did with oil. I have been camping in the desert for extended periods and it was never more of a problem for me than it was for my circumcised acquaintances.

139 windsagio  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:50:39pm

re: #137 LudwigVanQuixote

Everybody always thinks of themselves as being relatively mainstream, its one of those things.

There's always somebody to the right (or left) of you.

The US is an essentially rightwing country, and our left would at most be the center in a lot of Europe... its the same kind of thing.

There are levels of everything. There are plenty of 'Christian Fundamentalists' who aren't Young-Earth Creationists or collecting guns to protect themselves from the secular humanist world government. They're still religious extremists. (again, including members of my own family.)

I think I'll try to drop this again tho', it really does serve no purpose at all, except disputing in of itself.

140 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 4:00:10pm

That comic is pretty awful. My foreskin, on the other hand, rocks.

I say split the difference. Ban circumcision but grant religious exemptions.

141 Buck  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 5:50:19pm

re: #88 Locker

How much mutilation is ok? Foreskin ok? Female circumcision? Earlobes clipped? Nose tip cut off? Infant tattoos? What's the line?

This is where you go off the rails. All of the other things you mention are NOT traditions that have survived 3000 years with millions and millions of observers.

This is where you cross the line.

142 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 6:31:43pm

re: #50 LudwigVanQuixote

Now what amuses me about liberal whining about this is that people in SF are the first freaks to defend getting a Prince Albert .

Actually, there are those of us here who see through this bullshit law and will be voting against it in November.

143 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 6:38:15pm

re: #140 Conservative Moonbat

That comic is pretty awful. My foreskin, on the other hand, rocks.

I say split the difference. Ban circumcision but grant religious exemptions.

Disagree. People who don't like circumcision are perfectly capable of banning it of their own volition by not having it done on their sons. They don't need control freak laws like this. Yes, because I said so.

144 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 7:20:43pm

re: #141 Buck

This is where you go off the rails. All of the other things you mention are NOT traditions that have survived 3000 years with millions and millions of observers.

This is where you cross the line.

What is the cutoff time to be considered valid religious tradition? Female circumcision, for example, has been around longer than Christianity.

145 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 8:41:14pm

I don't know about the rest of the country, but in Oregon, it's an opt-in operation.

Also, for the third time, when SF outlaws exemptions from immunizations, they'll have credibility (that's the word I've been looking for.)

And, also, read #2, okay? Our "hero" kidnaps a baby from his father because the evil father wants to raise his son Jewish and gives the kid to an underground movement that will raise the boy "as one of our own." (Like a wolf pack, I suppose.)

146 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jun 6, 2011 11:54:20pm

Female Genital Mutilation does not compare to Male circumcision.

There are health risks and severe life long implications from FGM.

I think it is strange that the controversy is centered on the "male genital mutilation" with little, if any, focus on the "female" side.

147 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 7, 2011 5:05:31am

re: #117 Locker

I'm for banning infant circumcision. If an adult wants to chop, let em chop.

Are you also for banning cosmetic orthodontics for kids, sports for kids, weight training for kids, gymnastics for kids, ballet, and swimming?

You, personally, appear to have had a circumcision that caused harm. That sucks, and it obviously gives you a personal reason to oppose circumcision. But it's not a meaningful argument. There is no one arguing that circumcision can never result in harm; however, it is a very rare occasion where it results in serious harm.

There are positive health benefits from circumcisions; the medical science is, in general, mixed on the subject, but the AIDS and HPV research certainly shows that circumcision helps to prevent their spread.

I don't think you're an anti-semite, but I think that you're taking what happened to you and treating it as though it's a common occurrence. It's not going to convince anyone.

However, for you to not even look at the comic is rather stupid. Just like there are probably plenty of people in Arizona whose opposition to illegal immigration is principled and not based on racism, there's a lot-- far more, even-- anti-circumcision people who are not basing their stand on racism.

But, just as in Arizona, you should look around and see who's standing with you, who's supporting it. And clearly, anti-semites are strongly on board with this.

I would respect your position more if you were supporting a bill that banned all cosmetic surgery on children, including cosmetic orthodontics-- and a hell of a lot of braces and the like are not to prevent actual damage, but from the arguments of appearance and hygiene.

148 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 7, 2011 5:07:27am

re: #141 Buck

This is where you go off the rails. All of the other things you mention are NOT traditions that have survived 3000 years with millions and millions of observers.

This is where you cross the line.

That's the weakest possible argument in defense of circumcision. That something is traditional is not a defense of it, in any way, shape, or form.

It does meant that it shouldn't be sacrificed capriciously, but that's all.

149 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Jun 7, 2011 6:10:49am

re: #147 Obdicut

There was a tragedy recently here in Michigan. Nothing to do with circumcision, but which illustrates another one of your examples. A teenage athlete came off the basketball court after a game, had a heart attack and collapsed and passed away.

So, ban basketball?

150 zora  Tue, Jun 7, 2011 9:06:14am

re: #16 Locker

This is a lie AND I was circumcised as a baby.

well if they "chopped your penis", they did it wrong.

151 zora  Tue, Jun 7, 2011 9:11:32am

re: #33 Locker

And you dismiss direct physical harm to babies who can't defend themselves. You talk and talk and talk but never address this prime issue of my position. How about ponying up and addressing it.

my husband and sons are circumcised and have not been harmed physically. parents and doctors make all the medical decisions for an infant. circumcisions should be no different.


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