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1 Michael Orion Powell  Wed, Jun 22, 2011 8:00:46am

Maybe it's my libertarian tendencies but I don't think that this is a good idea. Where these nationalist movements do sprout up, Europe is still their centerpoint, despite a long, long legacy of making far right nationalism criminal. Adolf Hitler was jailed early in his career and many of these groups make their entire ethos based on victimhood and a sense of oppression by other groups. It wasn't accidental that Hitler called his memoir My Struggle (Mein Kampf). Not only is banning undesirable views a bad standard that could be taken in other directions, it provides a legitimacy to groups that inflate their membership by pointing and saying, "Look, they want to shut you up!"

2 Samson  Wed, Jun 22, 2011 8:03:18am

"I can't imagine why anyone would want to have Nazi "swag" or memorabilia. I mean I get that museums keep that kind of stuff for historical reasons, but...ugh."

I believe there are many people who collect such memorabilia for curiosity or historical interest, but who are not neo-Nazis or otherwise politically motivated to do so. There are still surviving veterans of WWII from many countries who, along with their descendants, might have some personal interest that has nothing to do with an appreciation of the Nazi regime. After all, we watch both documentary and fictional films about that period all the time (e.g., "Inglorious Basterds") and no one thinks much of it. There are even Nazis in the "Sound of Music", which has remained a popular "family" film for nearly 50 years.

On the other hand, there is still does seem to be something creepy about hard-core collectors of Nazi artifacts who maintain large personal collections for no other reason than their own amusement. After all, there are a lot things one can collect for fun and profit (e.g., baseball cards) that seem more benign and are potentially just as interesting.

Then there is the case of Marc Garlasco, the former senior military analyst at Human Rights Watch known for his anti-Israel views and his fondness for Nazi-era memorabilia. He was sacked by HRW when this became widely known after he had worked there for years. Whether his views on Israel and his active collection of Nazi materials are related in any way is a matter of conjecture, but here is his story:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

3 Michael Orion Powell  Wed, Jun 22, 2011 8:05:40am

re: #2 Samson

"I can't imagine why anyone would want to have Nazi "swag" or memorabilia. I mean I get that museums keep that kind of stuff for historical reasons, but...ugh."

I believe there are many people who collect such memorabilia for curiosity or historical interest, but who are not neo-Nazis or otherwise politically motivated to do so. There are still surviving veterans of WWII from many countries who, along with their descendants, might have some personal interest that has nothing to do with an appreciation of the Nazi regime. After all, we watch both documentary and fictional films about that period all the time (e.g., "Inglorious Basterds") and no one thinks much of it. There are even Nazis in the "Sound of Music", which has remained a popular "family" film for nearly 50 years.

On the other hand, there is still does seem to be something creepy about hard-core collectors of Nazi artifacts who maintain large personal collections for no other reason than their own amusement. After all, there are a lot things one can collect for fun and profit (e.g., baseball cards) that seem more benign and are potentially just as interesting.

Then there is the case of Marc Garlasco, the former senior military analyst at Human Rights Watch known for his anti-Israel views and his fondness for Nazi-era memorabilia. He was sacked by HRW when this became widely known after he had worked there for years. Whether his views on Israel and his active collection of Nazi materials are related in any way is a matter of conjecture, but here is his story:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

That makes me think of Bryan Singer's film Apt. Pupil, where a smart teenager discovers his neighbor is an aging Nazi, buys a reproduction uniform of a general in the SS, forces him to wear it and the old man says, "It appears I have been promoted." =P

4 EiMitch  Wed, Jun 22, 2011 10:55:26am

re: #1 OrionXP

That's what I've been trying to say. Hate speech laws are feel-good laws. They don't even make a dent.

They try to stop people from preaching evil, without attempting to understand, or otherwise address, how/why evil is appealing in the first place. They've turned the battle of ideas into a spectator sport, and made the haters into martyrs.

Why figure out root causes when you can obsess over the most obvious symptoms?

And they can't figure out why it doesn't work, or even acknowledge that its not working.

Hate speech laws are good for living in denial of deeper problems. /soapbox

5 Michael Orion Powell  Wed, Jun 22, 2011 2:27:20pm

re: #4 EiMitch

That's what I've been trying to say. Hate speech laws are feel-good laws. They don't even make a dent.

They try to stop people from preaching evil, without attempting to understand, or otherwise address, how/why evil is appealing in the first place. They've turned the battle of ideas into a spectator sport, and made the haters into martyrs.

Why figure out root causes when you can obsess over the most obvious symptoms?

And they can't figure out why it doesn't work, or even acknowledge that its not working.

Hate speech laws are good for living in denial of deeper problems. /soapbox

I agree, and in addition to ineffective they can also be counterproductive.


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