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1 windsagio  Jul 7, 2011 12:53:48pm

It seems like, in your rage, you didn’t read that article at all. The people coming in say they’re just going into Palestine, and the Israeli government is calling them ‘hooligans’ (lol) and threatening to arrest them.

It seems really like a bad fuckup on the Israeli government’s part. This kind of talk is something we’ve seen before, and has bad connotations.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor says some of the activists are “hooligans,” and Israel will take the necessary measures to maintain law and order.

Thats some Saddam Hussein-worthy wordcraft there.

more, you didn’t read:

Israel believes that the fly-in was organized after an aid flotilla that planned to bring hundreds of activists to break the Israeli naval blockade on the Gaza Strip was banned from leaving ports in Greece. Activists deny that, saying it is a separate initiative that focuses on the Israeli occupation of the West Bank.

The funny thing is that they specifically claim they’re not protesting the blockade.

2 shutdown  Jul 7, 2011 12:57:23pm

re: #1 windsagio

It seems like, in your rage, you didn’t read that article at all. The people coming in say they’re just going into Palestine, and the Israeli government is calling them ‘hooligans’ (lol) and threatening to arrest them.

It seems really like a bad fuckup on the Israeli government’s part. This kind of talk is something we’ve seen before, and has bad connotations.

Thats some Saddam Hussein-worthy wordcraft there.

more, you didn’t read:

The funny thing is that they specifically claim they’re not protesting the blockade.

My comment has absolutely nothing to do with the article, and everything to do with the journalism and editing. I stand by what I wrote.

3 windsagio  Jul 7, 2011 1:00:45pm

what about the item you got specifically wrong then?

And seriously think about it a minute; “Not about the article but about the Journalism and the Editing”. The Journalism and the Editing are the article.

Its a pretty straightforward ‘they said this, the other guys said that’ piece that lays out the various claims and doesn’t put editorial slant on it at all. To my mind, that’s what journalism is supposed to be.

~~~

That being said, the content is worth discussing because the Israeli government is using Dictator-style rhetoric.

4 shutdown  Jul 7, 2011 1:07:18pm

re: #3 windsagio

Listen. Carefully. Read my comment, and try to understand what I am saying. The VOA article, by clumsy and even negligent choice of words, has misrepresented the event on which they claim to be reporting. The “fly-in” is being organized by Gaza flotilla members who have been unable to leave Greece. The Gaza flotilla was organized to break a legal blockade of Gaza. Gaza is not occupied. Characterizing the “fly-in” protesters as “opposing the occupation of Palestinian territories” is ab initio incorrect. Worse, this misrepresentation is done with a choice of words which sail very hard to the wind of the “delegitimization” discourse favoured by anti-Semites around the world. The overall content of the article and your quotes are completely irrelevant to my point. They do not contradict my point. They are outside the four corners of my point.

5 windsagio  Jul 7, 2011 1:14:34pm

re: #4 imp_62

I quoted the relevant passage for you, let me do it again.

They claim to be protesting the legal sea blockade of Gaza.

vs,

Activists deny that, saying it is a separate initiative that focuses on the Israeli occupation of the West Bank.

Your basic premise is explicitly wrong.

You’re projecting. It’s the old “Liberal Media” problem, where because the reporting doesn’t cater to your specific views, they must be biased against you.

6 shutdown  Jul 7, 2011 1:21:34pm

re: #5 windsagio

I quoted the relevant passage for you, let me do it again.

vs,

Your basic premise is explicitly wrong.

You’re projecting. It’s the old “Liberal Media” problem, where because the reporting doesn’t cater to your specific views, they must be biased against you.

Bullshit kerfuffle. Your argument is bereft of any foundation other than attacking my position with irrelevant information.

7 windsagio  Jul 7, 2011 1:24:38pm

Irrelevant?

You claimed they said something they didn’t!

~~~

Actually, now I think you’re just provoking a fight because you know you fucked up.

Still, in all calmness, how can you having the information wrong, information core to your whole idea, I might add, be irrelevant?

8 shutdown  Jul 7, 2011 1:39:06pm

re: #7 windsagio

Irrelevant?

You claimed they said something they didn’t!

~~~

Actually, now I think you’re just provoking a fight because you know you fucked up.

Still, in all calmness, how can you having the information wrong, information core to your whole idea, I might add, be irrelevant?

I really don’t have the time to deal with tangential argumentation. My point is specific, quotes from the article, and references the actual intentions of the protesters. It does not matter that they changed their tune to say they were simply going to the Palestinian areas in solidarity with whatever they say they are doing. I won’t be held accountable for VOA’s indifference to editing and fact checking. The protesters had to change their stated intention, or their entire travel purpose becomes illegal and they could be arrested upon arrival. VOA swallows the whole thing hook, line and sinker.

9 windsagio  Jul 7, 2011 1:48:08pm

re: #8 imp_62

your structure is getting a bit rickety I think. There’s no evidence they changed their tune. The discussion would be different if they had. Anyways, that’s not what you said.

Be dissapointed in the VOA if you want though, they’re not the organ of your lobby.

10 shutdown  Jul 7, 2011 1:58:28pm

re: #9 windsagio

your structure is getting a bit rickety I think. There’s no evidence they changed their tune. The discussion would be different if they had. Anyways, that’s not what you said.

Be dissapointed in the VOA if you want though, they’re not the organ of your lobby.

My lobby, you presumptuous twit? You know nothing about me. Be grateful I did not crucify you over equating an Israeli Jew with Saddam Hussein; Please do not let your rhetorical reach exceed your intellectual grasp.

11 windsagio  Jul 7, 2011 2:01:35pm

re: #10 imp_62

Temper, temper!

Seriously, saying somebody’s dumb or wrong doesn’t make it so. In fact, resorting to insults can be seen as a sign of weakness.

If you wanna talk about the hooligan thing I’d love to, I think that’s the real story here. That kind of phraseology really is something you see when Dictators want to discredit (or more likely have a reason to shut down) peaceful protests.

Be glad I didn’t use Syria, which is the same thing but more current.

12 shutdown  Jul 7, 2011 2:07:07pm

re: #11 windsagio

Temper, temper!

Seriously, saying somebody’s dumb or wrong doesn’t make it so. In fact, resorting to insults can be seen as a sign of weakness.

If you wanna talk about the hooligan thing I’d love to, I think that’s the real story here. That kind of phraseology really is something you see when Dictators want to discredit (or more likely have a reason to shut down) peaceful protests.

Be glad I didn’t use Syria, which is the same thing but more current.

If you think that is the story, post a page. Meanwhile, resorting to inflammatory rhetorical flourishes such as implying I am angry and asking me to keep my temper will get you nowhere with me. I have been dealing with investment bankers, lawyers and government officials for over 20 years. Sniping weblog snotrags leave me cold.

13 windsagio  Jul 7, 2011 2:10:00pm

re: #12 imp_62

but you are angry! Its pretty clear, lol.

My lobby, you presumptuous twit? You know nothing about me. Be grateful I did not crucify you over equating an Israeli Jew with Saddam Hussein;

not the post of a calm person.

Seriously tho’, I’ll let you have the thread. It feels kind of mean working you up like this.

14 shutdown  Jul 7, 2011 2:14:08pm

re: #13 windsagio

but you are angry! Its pretty clear, lol.

not the post of a calm person.

Seriously tho’, I’ll let you have the thread. It feels kind of mean working you up like this.

This is my baseline. I don’t get much calmer. And really, the day has not yet arrived when someone I neither know, nor care about, can get me “worked up”, as you put it so quaintly.

15 Buck  Jul 7, 2011 3:08:03pm

From the article:

The activists insist that their mission is peaceful and that they plan to spend part of their summer vacation in the West Bank to show solidarity with the Palestinians. Neil Neifer is flying in from Europe.

“The very idea that anyone would travel to Ben-Gurion Airport to provoke violence with the Israeli military and police authorities is completely insane,” said Neifer.

The activists say the only airport protest would be to declare they have come to “visit Palestine.” They hope that will draw attention to Israeli policies that often bar foreigners with ties to the Palestinians.

This is almost exactly what the “passengers” on the Mavi Marmara said… right up to the moment that they rioted.

I trust the Israeli authorities to know what is really going on.


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