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1 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 3:03:42pm

Israelis allying with someone who says 'beat the kikes'.

So fucking stupid.

2 Michael McBacon  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 3:11:50pm

"The enemy of my enemy is not my friend."
-Penn Jillette

3 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 3:15:13pm

I have to say that I am not at all surprised. There is quite a large population of non-Jewish Russians who emigrated to Israel under the Law of Return, anyone who has one Jewish grandparent, or a fake "Jewish" grandparent. The Law of Return was crafted in order to define as "Jewish" anyone who would have been considered so by the Third Reich.

I am certainly not against providing asylum to people who are truly fleeing for their lives (like many non-Jewish Africans who are living in Israel), but this particular "Law" has resulted in unintended consequences.

4 researchok  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 3:16:49pm

re: #1 Obdicut

Israelis allying with someone who says 'beat the kikes'.

So fucking stupid.

Not unlike the fools who support Hamas.

5 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 3:19:09pm

re: #3 Alouette
I don't really see how non-Jewish Russian Israelis are to blame for the invitation extended to neo-Nazis by ultra-far-right religious Jewish Zionists.

6 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 3:22:43pm

re: #5 Sergey Romanov

I don't really see how non-Jewish Russian Israelis are to blame for the invitation extended to neo-Nazis by ultra-far-right religious Jewish Zionists.

I'm trying to explain how neo-Nazis could even find a home in Israel. That they are now embraced by the Israeli far-right is bizarre and disgusting.

7 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 3:28:26pm

re: #6 Alouette

Ah, OK. Yes, I've read news items that nowadays there are skinheads even in Israel :(

8 Archangelus  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 4:21:43pm

re: #6 Alouette

I'm trying to explain how neo-Nazis could even find a home in Israel. That they are now embraced by the Israeli far-right is bizarre and disgusting.

Not so bizarre when you take into consideration the fact that folks like Eldad are certainly ignorant about this stuff, and the same goes to those who would otherwise be tearing him a new one over it. Coverage of this in Israel (what little there was) basically touched on the fact that he met someone deemed a "right-winger" and possible "extremist", and that's about it. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend, because I never bothered to research the stuff about him actually being MY enemy"...

9 windsagio  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 5:06:30pm

Like attracts like, that's really it.

also, heh@bitching about the Law of Return letting in fake Jews :p

10 Locker  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 5:07:17pm

Very interesting post and you put in a ton of work on it. Thank you very much for your efforts and this information.

11 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 7:23:27pm

re: #3 Alouette

I call bullshit

12 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 7:28:45pm

Who the hell is minding the gates at Ben Gurion?

13 windsagio  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 7:32:13pm

re: #12 Decatur Deb

they're busy keeping pro-palestinian protesters out to worry about nazi sympathizers :p

14 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 9:31:23pm

re: #11 WindUpBird

I call bullshit

On what?

It's completely true there's a lot of not-very-Jewish Russians who emigrated to Israel.

[Link: www.jewishjournal.com...]

[Link: www.thejerusalemconnection.us...]


This takes like 5 seconds to find on Google.

15 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 9:32:36pm

re: #14 Obdicut

I shouldn't say 'non-Jewish', really; it's a tricky subject. not primarily self-identifying as Jewish, I guess.

16 windsagio  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 9:33:45pm

re: #15 Obdicut

I'm not WUB of course, but I think the problematic assumption is that the people reaching out to these nutbars 'aren't real Jews'. I'll get him to look and see if I'm right.

17 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 9:36:36pm

re: #16 windsagio

I'm not WUB of course, but I think the problematic assumption is that the people reaching out to these nutbars 'aren't real Jews'. I'll get him to look and see if I'm right.

That wasn't what Alouette said, though.

This is what she said:

That they are now embraced by the Israeli far-right is bizarre and disgusting.

She's not saying the far-right are not really Jewish. Those parties are as Jewish as you get, obnoxiously so. So Jewish they wouldn't consider me Jewish.

Anyway, even previous to this, there's been actual neo-nazis and skinheads in Israel. As residents. It's bizarre, I know, but these guys being invited isn't even the start of it.

18 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 9:38:27pm

Here's some on the Neo-Nazis in Israel.

Some of whom are Jewish.

Oy.

[Link: www.independent.co.uk...]

19 windsagio  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 9:39:56pm

re: #17 Obdicut

I'm not sure her comment makes any sense without the context I'm describing though.

I guess it could be just an bizarre out of place rant tho'.

re: #18 Obdicut

That is so very bizarre :p

20 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 9:47:37pm

re: #19 windsagio

I'm not sure her comment makes any sense without the context I'm describing though.

I guess it could be just an bizarre out of place rant tho'.

re: #18 Obdicut

That is so very bizarre :p

It's really not a bizarre out of place rant if you're aware of the issues of neo-nazis in Israel. It's true it doesn't directly address that the right-wing radicals in Israel are making an alliance with the neo-Nazis, but it's not at all denying it.

Israel has tolerated neo-Nazism for quite awhile. The alliance of the religious ultra-right with them is new.

And while it's true that the Russian immigrants are responsible for and the source of a lot of the neo-nazi bullshit, they also go to great lengths to prove their loyalty.


For many of these “non-Jewish Jews,” serving in the IDF is an opportunity to prove their patriotism. The casualty rate for Russian immigrants is around three times higher than the norm because many of the immigrants volunteer for the more dangerous army units. In the Second Lebanon War, nearly one-quarter of those who received medals of valor were Russian-speaking immigrants and almost the same proportion received military burials.

21 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 9:51:57pm

I'd also note that the religious courts' insistence that immigrants who convert, convert to Orthodox Judaism, actually hinders assimilation, and that if they could see their way to letting Reform to have some space, a lot of the problems of integration would be solved.

That said, nobody should even have to convert, given the long-standing tradition of Zionist secularism. But Orthodox-only courts are a snaggle.

22 windsagio  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 9:56:33pm

re: #21 Obdicut

I've mentioned it before, but I qualify myself under the 1970 version of the Law of Return :D I'd admit its an interesting subject.

Anyways, we could argue whether she was implying something or not forever, neither of us being her (and WUB never coming back to say what he meant either, the jerk :p)

re: #21 Obdicut

Absolutely, but that group is a weird little subsection of the world anyways. Does show why its generally a bad thing to have strong religious involvement in government >>

23 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 14, 2011 10:03:03pm

re: #22 windsagio

Anyways, we could argue whether she was implying something or not forever, neither of us being her (and WUB never coming back to say what he meant either, the jerk :p)

There's really nothing to argue about. Even if there were from her first post, she immediately cleared it up in her response to Sergey. I'm not sure why you're skipping over that.


Absolutely, but that group is a weird little subsection of the world anyways.

Pretty much every group is a weird little subsection of the world.

Does show why its generally a bad thing to have strong religious involvement in government >>

Well, since what I was suggesting was allowing Reform courts along with Orthodox, I'm not sure how that follows. You can be a totally secular Jew or non-Jew and immigrate to Israel and it's fine; most Jews in Israel are mostly secular. But there's a lot of Russian immigrants who have some attachment to their Jewish roots but are not at all ready for the commitment of Orthodox Judaism, but would probably be helped feel a sense of belonging from Reform Judaism.

24 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 3:01:06am

re: #16 windsagio

I'm not WUB of course, but I think the problematic assumption is that the people reaching out to these nutbars 'aren't real Jews'. I'll get him to look and see if I'm right.

yes

25 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 3:07:17am

re: #24 WindUpBird

yes

That assumption wasn't made, though, dude. Those reaching out are the Israeli hard right.

What's not surprising is that these guys are there. They didn't have to come from Russia. They could have come from inside Israel itself.

Or, to quote Alouette:

That they are now embraced by the Israeli far-right is bizarre and disgusting.

26 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 1:07:07pm

re: #25 Obdicut

I have to say that I am not at all surprised. There is quite a large population of non-Jewish Russians who emigrated to Israel under the Law of Return, anyone who has one Jewish grandparent, or a fake "Jewish" grandparent. The Law of Return was crafted in order to define as "Jewish" anyone who would have been considered so by the Third Reich.

Just sounded to me like it was 'Well, they're all interlopers! So it doesn't count!" that's how I took it

27 windsagio  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 2:02:53pm

"More People in Grey Suits defending the Indefensible"


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