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1 mdey  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 1:13:51am

Actually, I've heard this guy was a fraud for years. He's been pretty much been limited to Fox News, he's been on Hannity and Beck multiple times. Outside of that, has he been taken seriously by anyone else?

2 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 1:57:36am

Right-wing zionists love this guy. Blech.

3 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 2:06:19am

re: #1 mdey

Actually, I've heard this guy was a fraud for years. He's been pretty much been limited to Fox News, he's been on Hannity and Beck multiple times. Outside of that, has he been taken seriously by anyone else?

Well, according to the article as recently as the month before last he had a (very well paid) speaking engagement in Rapid City, SD at a forum put on by the state Office of Homeland Security for 300 police officers and sheriff's deputies.

Then in October of last year there was this in Las Vegas:

Kill them, including the children.”

That’s how to solve the threat of violent militant Muslims?

The above quote is from what one official involved in homeland security said was how she understood the underlying theme of a speech by Walid Shoebat at an anti-terrorism training in Las Vegas in October 2010. Our investigator had turned around after Shoebat’s speech and asked the woman seated one row back what she thought was the solution offered by Shoebat.

“Kill them…including the children…you heard him,” was the full response.

Shoebat’s speech was described by our source as “frightening.”

[...]

Full article at PublicEye.org...

Based on those two alone, I guess I'd say he's still taken quite seriously.

If you're interested in the in getting at the meat of how shaky some of the stuff that's supposed to keep us safe actually is, then you might want to invest some time in reading through "Top Secret America", a Washington Post project that involved more than a dozen journalists and two years of work.

It seeks to describe the post-9/11 buildup of "a national security and intelligence system so big, so complex and so hard to manage, no one really knows if it's fulfilling its most important purpose: keeping its citizens safe."

4 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 2:16:41am

re: #2 eclectic infidel

Right-wing zionists love this guy. Blech.

Heh, no doubt. I'm sure most right-wingers period love him. Lord only knows how many speaking engagements this guy has every year, and some of them funded by our own government.

I checked his web site a little while ago and he seems to scrambling to do damage control after the CNN report. T'was a sight that warmed my heart. Too bad there are more where he came from (and that some people will give him a platform regardless of his fraudulent claims).

5 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 2:34:36am

re: #1 mdey

Actually, I've heard this guy was a fraud for years. He's been pretty much been limited to Fox News, he's been on Hannity and Beck multiple times. Outside of that, has he been taken seriously by anyone else?

He spoke at UC Berkeley a couple of years ago. I was there. The audience was reasonably tolerant, save for a few Muslims who took exception (obviously) and a few students who challenged his claims.

It was a boring speech overall but one thing was clear, he definitely framed the conflict as one between dueling religions.

6 mdey  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 2:52:37am

re: #3 CuriousLurker

I'm sorry I'm not as up to date as you on Shoebat. I Didn't mean to offend you. I didn't think this clown had that much influence. Thanks for setting me straight.

7 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 2:55:49am

re: #6 mdey

I'm sorry I'm not as up to date as you on Shoebat. I Didn't mean to offend you. I didn't think this clown had that much influence. Thanks for setting me straight.

Oh, I wasn't offended! Sorry if I sounded cranky, but I've been up all night (insomnia) and am not at the top of my game at the moment. ;o)

8 researchok  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 3:43:37am

CL is absolutely right on this one- we have enough real terror threats to worry about.

Shoebat is making things worse, not better. In promoting his bona fides as a 'former Muslim terrorist' who found Christ, he doing exactly what we ought not be doing-assigning credibility predicated on a particular religious stand.

Let's focus on the real threats and not the made up, feel good narrative.

9 researchok  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 3:44:47am

re: #5 eclectic infidel

He spoke at UC Berkeley a couple of years ago. I was there. The audience was reasonably tolerant, save for a few Muslims who took exception (obviously) and a few students who challenged his claims.

It was a boring speech overall but one thing was clear, he definitely framed the conflict as one between dueling religions.

That's his agenda.

10 researchok  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 4:24:37am

I would add one more thing.

Shoebat's entire raison d'etre is not unlike that of Pam Geller. They believe the entire Islamic culture/religion is both broken and irredeemable.

That of course, is their right.

Now, let's put that into perspective.

How much credibility would we assign snyone who espoused the view that the entire black culture is broken and irredeemable?

How much credibility would we assign snyone who espoused the view that the entire Jewish culture and religion is broken and irredeemable?

You get the point.

Muslims carry a double burden because most of what is dysfunctional about contemporary Islamic culture and religious extremism has been foisted upon them by the same people who want to blow us to kingdom come. That is to say the vast majority of Muslims are victims of political/cultural/religious extremism even more than we are because they are subject to an iron boot that has broken them down for decades. There can and will be no redemption for those who have broken down their own.

Muslims are forced to carry the burden of those very dysfunctional regimes who oppress them. The Shoebats and others of his ilk only exploit that reality and add to the problem.

There are no quick answers or easy solutions to terror. The starting point however, is to acknowledge that broad strokes with big brushes only exacerbate the problem.

11 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 5:14:19am

re: #10 researchok

Well said.

I was reading your Page about Pakistan a little while ago and think that we really, really, really need to stop with the nonsense and figure this stuff out.

In the Qur'an, towards the end, the following words are repeated in two consecutive verses: "verily, with every difficulty, there is relief". One of the interpretations of this is that every problem we encounter hold within it the solution to it(self).

Somewhere in all of this there is a key, a solution that will unlock & solve the problem, we just have to be very methodical, very focused on finding it so we don't overlook it or end up stepping on it and grinding into the ground out of sight in our haste & distraction.

This also makes me think of the the elephant in the dark (or the blind men with the elephant, depending on which variation of the story you hear).

re: #8 researchok

Let's focus on the real threats and not the made up, feel good narrative.

And with this, I'm reminded of Mulla Nasruddin:

Someone was passing by Mulla Nasruddin's house and saw him out in the street searching for something.

"What are you looking for, Mullah Nasruddin ? Have you lost something?" the passerby inquired.

"Yes, I've lost my ring down in the basement," replied Nasruddin.

Surprised, the man asked, "But then why aren't you looking for it down in the basement??"

"Don't be silly, man!" snapped Nasruddin, "How do you expect me to find anything in the dark??"

12 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 9:15:23am

re: #1 mdey

Actually, I've heard this guy was a fraud for years. He's been pretty much been limited to Fox News, he's been on Hannity and Beck multiple times. Outside of that, has he been taken seriously by anyone else?

Maybe not in the movers-and-shakers of the world circles, but among plain folks who are easily tempted to see Islam as a monolithic threat, yes.

13 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 9:16:50am

re: #2 eclectic infidel

Right-wing zionists love this guy. Blech.

You know, I'd bristle a little at anyone else saying this...but I know who you are...and I know who you're talking about...

I keep saying, I could make a FORTUNE being an 'ex-Muslim' scare-monger.

:(

14 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 9:18:16am

re: #8 researchok

CL is absolutely right on this one- we have enough real terror threats to worry about.

Shoebat is making things worse, not better. In promoting his bona fides as a 'former Muslim terrorist' who found Christ, he doing exactly what we ought not be doing-assigning credibility predicated on a particular religious stand.

Let's focus on the real threats and not the made up, feel good narrative.

Somehow I find the idea of an absolute war of civilizations being a feel-good narrative both terribly sad and completely hilarious.

15 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 10:23:31am

Thanks for posting this.

16 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 11:17:45am

re: #13 SanFranciscoZionist

I keep saying, I could make a FORTUNE being an 'ex-Muslim' scare-monger.

I can vouch for you if you give me 10% of your net profits. How's this for starters?

"Back when she lived in Patterson, she was known throughout the tri-state area as The Jersey Jihadist. No one was sure of her real identity or even of exactly what she looked like because she always wore a niqab that concealed her face. It was whispered that she had Jewish roots and had at one point received assassin training from the Mossad, but no one dared ask outright because it was rumored that she also had family ties to the IRA..."

Huma Abedin can only dream about havnig your street creds.

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

Somehow I find the idea of an absolute war of civilizations being a feel-good narrative both terribly sad and completely hilarious.

LOL, I love how you're able to hone right in like a laser and articulate things that I felt, but lacked the words & humor to express.

17 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 11:36:51am

re: #10 researchok

Muslims are forced to carry the burden of those very dysfunctional regimes who oppress them. The Shoebats and others of his ilk only exploit that reality and add to the problem.

After having gotten some sleep and reread everyone's comments, I'd venture to say that Shoebat is the personification of everything that's dysfunctional about the Middle East these days.

18 TheHussar  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 11:47:03am

The CNN article about Shoebat is absolute bullshit and was orchestrated by CAIR, the Hamas front group. This "reporter" says he could not find proff Shoebat spent time in an Israeli jail. Of course not, his real name is not Walid Shoebat. He uses a pseudonym because of death threats. Similarly, the Bank Leumi no longer in Bethlehem. To show you how CAIR got the slugs at CNN to attack Walid read this link:

[Link: homelandsecurityus.com...]

Just what is a "fraud" about Walid? What he says about militant Islam and terrorism? He didn't kill anyone--he never has claimed to. The reporter ginned up this report at the behest of CAIR. Shoebat is the real deal and your entry is a disservice, gossip for those who want to support the likes of Hamas.

19 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 11:50:30am

re: #18 TheHussar

LOL, looks like we got us a live one!

20 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 12:05:03pm

re: #18 TheHussar

From your link...

The second question posed to Mr Shoebat by the reporter from CNN, Drew Griffin, was “We called the Bank Leumi and there is no record of the bombing?”

This is is another favorite of the CAIR and left to discredit Walid Shoebat. This question actually discredits the people who ask it because the actual branch was shut down in 1996 because it was in the newly created Palestinian Authority. Another spoon fed question by CAIR?


Why don't the Israelis have a record of the bombing? Walid is the only person who claims the bank was bombed but there's absolutely no historical record of it.
The Israelis also have no record of him being arrested and jailed. Is the Israeli government smearing Walid at the behest of CAIR too?

21 researchok  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 12:18:41pm

re: #17 CuriousLurker

After having gotten some sleep and reread everyone's comments, I'd venture to say that Shoebat is the personification of everything that's dysfunctional about the Middle East these days.

He's in a crowd.

There is no shortage of lunatics in the Middle East.

22 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 12:18:46pm

re: #20 Killgore Trout

From your link...


Why don't the Israelis have a record of the bombing? Walid is the only person who claims the bank was bombed but there's absolutely no historical record of it.
The Israelis also have no record of him being arrested and jailed. Is the Israeli government smearing Walid at the behest of CAIR too?

Yes, this.

This guy's story doesn't add up, and the defense of him mostly seems to come from people who desperately want him to be legit because he says what they want to hear.

But why do they believe what he says? Why, because he KNOWS--based on the stories he tells about himself that are, by all investigation, bunkum.

He can't prove it? Well of course not! He uses a fake name! To protect himself! (Never mind that his name is all over the Internet.)

This guy is too good to be true, and he probably isn't.

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 12:21:31pm

re: #22 SanFranciscoZionist

His FACE is all over the Internet. Sorry.

24 researchok  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 12:26:32pm

re: #17 CuriousLurker

After having gotten some sleep and reread everyone's comments, I'd venture to say that Shoebat is the personification of everything that's dysfunctional about the Middle East these days.

Someday, when the ME transforms into various free societies, there will be hell to pay for these 'leaders' who for over a century denigrated the Arab world into dust.

There was no failure on the part of the Arab ummah, really. They were handicapped from the beginning without ever having the opportunity to succeed. In addition to obliterating a once thriving and progressive society and culture, these 'leaders' managed to undermine an entire religion to maintain their dysfunctional stranglehold.

Woe unto them.

25 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 12:28:45pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

His FACE is all over the Internet. Sorry.

Good thing yours isn't. ;)

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] <—Points at comment SFZ missed.

26 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 12:31:53pm

re: #16 CuriousLurker

I can vouch for you if you give me 10% of your net profits. How's this for starters?

Huma Abedin can only dream about havnig your street creds.

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

LOL, I love how you're able to hone right in like a laser and articulate things that I felt, but lacked the words & humor to express.

I'm pretty bad-ass. I like this.

27 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 12:32:18pm

re: #17 CuriousLurker

After having gotten some sleep and reread everyone's comments, I'd venture to say that Shoebat is the personification of everything that's dysfunctional about the Middle East these days.

Dueling narratives...

28 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 15, 2011 5:30:07pm
"All Islamic organizations in America should be the No. 1 enemy. All of them," he says.

Why should we shut down every mosque and not shut down every Catholic church? If every American Imam is bent on terrorism, than why isn't every Catholic priest bent on molesting children? Firstly, because neither statements are true. Secondly, this is the U.S. where we have freedom of religion and Muslims have as much right to this land as a Christian, Jew, Buddhist, or atheist for that matter.

I realize that Islamic terror is a worse issue and more difficult to deal with than Catholic priests molesting kids (well, theoretically!). I don't want to get bogged down in those issues really. I only make the comparison to illustrate how impractical and quite frankly, unAmerican these ideas are.

Would closing down every mosque even work? Did it work during the Spanish Inquisition when Jews were forced to flee, die or convert? Or any other time Jews were murdered, kicked out of their countries or forbidden to practice their religion? Are we OR our religion dead? Nope.

In fact, there is no one solution that works or countries like Israel, Pakistan and Britain would be doing it. It's not just complex, but each country has its own unique issues and political structures. Israel/Palestine is one. Iraq/Afghanistan another. The Sudan and Yemen. Syria, Iran, Hizbollah (aiding terror, in the least), on and on. Even Saudi Arabia, a nation we have a good relationship with, maybe the best in the Arab world, is mired in terrorism.

The heads of the beasts are the Taliban, Al-Queda, Hamas, Hizzbolah (at the top). This is where the main focus has to be. In some instances, there are no choices but to kill them and we have been successful at that.

Home grown terrorism, at least in my mind, isn't where the crux of the problem lies, even though a handful of Americans have turned terrorist. We shouldn't ignore the issue, of course, and have to be vigilant. However, if we turn our backs on the very people (Muslims) who are only seeking to live normal, productive lives in Western society, we actually ruin out best chances of discovering the home-grown terrorists. Wouldn't we want to strengthen our trust in Muslims communities to have them help us fight this problem?

I believe if Shoebat had a real interest in fighting terror that didn't have to do with Christian conversion, promoting Christianity, or just money, he would be conducting these conferences flanked by an imam on one side a rabbi on the other. Where all 3 religions could figure out solutions, with law enforcement, strengthen each other and realize we have to do it as a group.

Sorry. That's longer than I anticipated!

29 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 16, 2011 3:43:45pm

re: #28 marjoriemoon

Sorry. That's longer than I anticipated!

Well said. Don't apologize—you speak from the heart and this is obviously something about which you've thought long & hard and feel strongly.

And I agree 100% that if person has a real humanitarian interest in fighting terrorism, he doesn't use Mr. Shoebat's cheap, divisive tactics.


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