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1 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:46:16pm

good link!

2 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:51:21pm

Thanks—you rock! {{{Gus}}}

3 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:55:18pm

re: #2 CuriousLurker

Thanks—you rock! {{{Gus}}}

You're welcome CL. Hat tipped ya'.

4 BrainSurfer  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:14:53pm

"...a new ideological hate...? What utter crap.

You will find wackos filled with hate on both sides of the political spectrum, and every now and then they will go off the deep end. Yeah... Life's a bitch... and people die - all the time. Does not lessen the hurt and agony of those who lost loved ones one iota.

Anti-Muslim, pro-Muslim, Anti-Christian, Pro-Christian, Anti-Jewish, Pro-Jewish....you have people, lots of people, on both sides of every issue. And the more you throw crap at the other side, the more likely they will throw it back.

Suggest looking deeper into both sides of issues to find as much truth as you can, and you will see more clearly what drives the thinking of the one-sided ideologues... who nevertheless might have a bit of truth on their side as well. Those who understand most clearly, at least as clearly as may be possible, the various issues at stake in a dispute will be better prepared to understand the thinking of their opposite.... and be better prepared to sway opinions based on the entirety of truth, rather than crap, which they bring to the argument.

5 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:16:01pm

re: #4 BrainSurfer

"...a new ideological hate...? What utter crap.

You will find wackos filled with hate on both sides of the political spectrum, and every now and then they will go off the deep end. Yeah... Life's a bitch... and people die - all the time. Does not lessen the hurt and agony of those who lost loved ones one iota.

Anti-Muslim, pro-Muslim, Anti-Christian, Pro-Christian, Anti-Jewish, Pro-Jewish...you have people, lots of people, on both sides of every issue. And the more you throw crap at the other side, the more likely they will throw it back.

Suggest looking deeper into both sides of issues to find as much truth as you can, and you will see more clearly what drives the thinking of the one-sided ideologues... who nevertheless might have a bit of truth on their side as well. Those who understand most clearly, at least as clearly as may be possible, the various issues at stake in a dispute will be better prepared to understand the thinking of their opposite... and be better prepared to sway opinions based on the entirety of truth, rather than crap, which they bring to the argument.

You're ignoring a very real incitement to hate here.

6 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:21:10pm

re: #4 BrainSurfer

looking deeper into both sides of issues to find as much truth as you can


There is no truth in the fear that 7.5% of the population of Oslo, or 2% of the population of Norway, represents an existential threat to other Norwegians. It's ridiculous.

7 BrainSurfer  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:21:58pm

How so, Sergey? I'm open-minded on this.

8 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:23:21pm

re: #7 BrainSurfer

How so, Sergey? I'm open-minded on this.

Hysterical rants and scapegoating of all Muslims (yes, all, despite lipservice to the idea that they only expose radicals) is incitement against Muslims.

9 BrainSurfer  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:37:28pm

OK, Sergey. Pretty all-encompassing statement there - not sure who exactly you are specifically referring to, but lets say I agree.

If so, how would you suggest you/I/we/anyone is to proceed in trying to expose radicals who happen to be Muslim?

10 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:47:54pm

re: #9 BrainSurfer

Specific people mentioned by Foxman.

-

It's not even really our task. When a German, American or other police arrests the next one, they're doing their job, no? They know who to target and watch.

And - if you want to expose Islamic radicalism, do it. Don't go for histrionic tone that Spencer and especially Geller became known for. Don't do innuendos and dark meanings. Don't support Eurofascists or extremists. It's not that hard, really.

11 BrainSurfer  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:29:31pm

re: #10 Sergey Romanov

Sergey - could not agree more, except, perhaps, as to the police, who in my opinion, do not always know enough to do their job - as was unfortunately the case with the wacko Breivik.

Yet even Foxman shows some bias with this statement: " One bizarre twist to Breivik’s warped worldview was his pro-Zionism — his strongly expressed support for the state of Israel. It is a reminder that we must always be wary of those whose love for the Jewish people is born out of hatred of Muslims or Arabs."

Not sure how he can justify implying that a love of (or, possibly, respect for) the Jewish people means you must hate Muslims.

On the other hand, there are numerous examples of Palestinian children, and children in other Middle Eastern countries, (but certainly not all Muslim children.... would not want to stereotype, hysterically rant, or scapegoat all Muslim children) who are raised to HATE Jews. As their parents do.

Is hating Israel acceptable? Could we also assume from Foxman's statement that the reverse should be true.... that we should be wary of those whose love of Islam is born out of a hatred of Jews? Hmmm. In that case we would need to be wary of a sizeable portion of the human race.

With two (or more) sides to so many stories, it all seems to come down to how you frame the issues to get your point, or bias, across - which does not necessarily make it right or completely true.

12 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:34:26pm

> Not sure how he can justify implying that a love of (or, possibly, respect for) the Jewish people means you must hate Muslims.

But this is not what he says. He describes bigots who see Jews and Israel as only tactical "friends", only useful in their own battles against Islam, and otherwise probably not giving a damn about Jews and Israel. Like Breivik and like some Eurofascists.

13 BrainSurfer  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:53:12pm

re: #12 Sergey Romanov

It's clearly what he says: "It is a reminder that we must always be wary of those whose love for the Jewish people is born out of hatred of Muslims or Arabs."

And I can easily play devil's advocate, and say:
"We must be wary of those whose love of Islam is born out of hatred of Jews."

Are we both right?

14 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:56:08pm

re: #13 BrainSurfer

It is indeed clear what he says, so I don't understand why you distorted his meaning in your #11 into "implying that a love of (or, possibly, respect for) the Jewish people means you must hate Muslims".

15 BrainSurfer  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:23:26pm

re: #14 Sergey Romanov

No distortion. Foxman's comment, in my opinion, is stupid and biased. Not sure how many people could be said to "love" Israel except for the Israelis; nor how many of those who are friendly to Israel could be said to hate Muslims. But it is a long leap for Foxman to state that there are people who developed a love for Israel because they hated Islam. Yet he implies that "they" are out there... and we should always be wary of them.

I think we should be wary of wackos of any faith or political persuasion who seek to do harm to those they disagree with. Wary enough to find them, track them down, and put the clamps on them before they do harm.

16 Cankles McCellulite  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:48:06pm

re: #4 BrainSurfer
Do you also get upset at the right wing blogs like this?
You are not happy here, NOT HAPPY. lol.

17 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 1, 2011 12:03:47am

re: #15 BrainSurfer

But it is a long leap for Foxman to state that there are people who developed a love for Israel because they hated Islam.

No more a leap than acknowledging there are people who play at supporting whackjob Islam and Muslims, mainly because they hate Jews, Judaism, Israel the country, and Zionism.

Or that there are people who profess a love for Israel and Zionism because they think it means Jesus will come back and set up world without end, with Christians-only rule.

All of the above exist and have bearing on the US political discourse about the ME. Recognizing it is not a leap.

I think we should be wary of wackos of any faith or political persuasion who seek to do harm to those they disagree with. Wary enough to find them, track them down, and put the clamps on them before they do harm.

Then we should start tracking "them" down and putting clamps on "them" right here at home, because they're exporting a scapegoating and murder mentality. Right?

18 Gus  Mon, Aug 1, 2011 12:11:20am

re: #15 BrainSurfer

No distortion. Foxman's comment, in my opinion, is stupid and biased. Not sure how many people could be said to "love" Israel except for the Israelis; nor how many of those who are friendly to Israel could be said to hate Muslims. But it is a long leap for Foxman to state that there are people who developed a love for Israel because they hated Islam. Yet he implies that "they" are out there... and we should always be wary of them.

I think we should be wary of wackos of any faith or political persuasion who seek to do harm to those they disagree with. Wary enough to find them, track them down, and put the clamps on them before they do harm.

That's not his point genius. You missed by a country mile. Or to repeat what Foxman said:

It is a reminder that we must always be wary of those whose love for the Jewish people is born out of hatred of Muslims or Arabs.

The point here is that we must be weary of those whose love for Israel is based solely on their hatred of Muslims. Why is that so hard for you to figure out and only leads to a rather bizarre defensiveness about his opinion? Here let me repeat it again: beware of those people that pretend to be friends of Israel based only on their ability to hate Muslims. Make more sense now? It makes perfect sense.

19 Gus  Mon, Aug 1, 2011 12:14:44am

re: #13 BrainSurfer

It's clearly what he says: "It is a reminder that we must always be wary of those whose love for the Jewish people is born out of hatred of Muslims or Arabs."

And I can easily play devil's advocate, and say:
"We must be wary of those whose love of Islam is born out of hatred of Jews."

Are we both right?

No. Then you would be both wrong. Abe Foxman would certainly agree. We should beware of Muslims whose whole principle is based on their hatred of Jews. Try again. Your pseudo intellectualism is failing.

20 Gus  Mon, Aug 1, 2011 12:17:48am

Troll...

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

21 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Aug 1, 2011 12:26:03am

re: #15 BrainSurfer

Uh, there are such people, obviously, especially among Eurofascists. And yes, you distorted Foxman's comment. He never implied that "a love of (or, possibly, respect for) the Jewish people means you must hate Muslims". And now you're lying about not distorting his comment. Why do you do that?


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