Pages

Jump to bottom

31 comments

1 laZardo  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 7:01:19pm

Extinction, evolution, or more likely assimilation.

Observe (and read to the end).

2 Stanghazi  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 7:03:18pm

Wow, CL. Great page. My favorites:

So you have a mixture of strong belief, intense emotion, and a you're-either-with-us-or-against-us attitude. The snake oil salesmen know this and they know how to speak the language that will reassure them that they're with them 110%, unlike the corrupt "others".

and


technology at out fingertips that somehow seems to have put a world of information at our fingertips while simultaneously causing us to have tunnel vision.

It's an exciting and scary brave new world we're living in, and we need to be cognizant of that.

I'm watching, we all need to be watching. And on our guard.

3 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 7:05:21pm

re: #1 laZardo

Extinction, evolution, or more likely assimilation.

Observe (and read to the end).

Thanks, I'll take a look this weekend. Writing this page was a major brain drain, so I can't process anything else complicated right now. ;)

4 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 7:06:38pm

re: #2 Stanley Sea

I'm watching, we all need to be watching. And on our guard.

Dang, you guys read fast! Thanks, I'm glad you liked it.

Gonna take a break now and try to recover some brain cells. LOL

5 Achilles Tang  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 7:07:46pm

CL, you are an intelligent, observant and moral person, but I do not understand why you claim what seems to me to be just a different version of what you profess to have rejected.

Can you not be all the above, and more, without the trappings invented by others?

I mean no offense.

6 shutdown  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 7:10:57pm

Thanks CL. I can't imagine you had much of an appetite after spending so much time on the Response website. (Good Ramadan strategy, i suppose...).

You are absolutely correct about Israel and the religious right. This is a discussion I have on an ongoing basis with many people in my circle of (Jewish) friends. The opinions are split. There are those who believe that Jews need to take their friends as they find them, and that Israel is hardly in a position to be choosy about unqualified support these days. These folks embrace people like Hagee and the organization Christians United for Israel (CUFI) and treat them as friends of the Jews and Israel. Then there are others, like myself, who believe that you might be safe in a temporary, limited alliance with evangelicals, but that when you lay down with dogs, you invariably get up with fleas. When your "friend" has ulterior motives and is using you towards his own ends - which are incompatible with your own desires - you are not dealing with a true friend. As the Joker asks Batman: "Have you ever danced with the Devil in the pale moonlight?"

7 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 7:30:57pm

re: #5 Naso Tang

CL, you are an intelligent, observant and moral person, but I do not understand why you claim what seems to me to be just a different version of what you profess to have rejected.

Can you not be all the above, and more, without the trappings invented by others?

I mean no offense.

I don't claim what I have rejected. Neither my approach nor my practice is anything like what I have rejected. I realize that all religions may appear equally absurd & nonsensical to those who are non-believers, so there's not much I can say in that regard.

To put it as plainly & concisely as possible: I'm sure I could be all of the above without religion, but for me it's a vehicle, a means to an end (not an end in itself).

If I can arrive be an intelligent, observant and moral person, who cares how I got there or why I preferred one mode of transportation over another? Isn't it enough that I am making the effort?

I also mean no offense, but I'm too tired to say more on the matter at present, I'm going to go to drink a lot of coffee and smoke to my heart's content. ;)

8 Stanghazi  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 7:33:52pm

re: #7 CuriousLurker

Damn, you have my hugest props.

9 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 7:34:20pm

re: #6 imp_62

Thanks CL. I can't imagine you had much of an appetite after spending so much time on the Response website. (Good Ramadan strategy, i suppose...).

LOL, yep, definitely an appetite killer.

You are absolutely correct about Israel and the religious right. This is a discussion I have on an ongoing basis with many people in my circle of (Jewish) friends. The opinions are split. There are those who believe that Jews need to take their friends as they find them, and that Israel is hardly in a position to be choosy about unqualified support these days. These folks embrace people like Hagee and the organization Christians United for Israel (CUFI) and treat them as friends of the Jews and Israel. Then there are others, like myself, who believe that you might be safe in a temporary, limited alliance with evangelicals, but that when you lay down with dogs, you invariably get up with fleas. When your "friend" has ulterior motives and is using you towards his own ends - which are incompatible with your own desires - you are not dealing with a true friend. As the Joker asks Batman: "Have you ever danced with the Devil in the pale moonlight?"

You guys who "get it" need to step up your game and convince your friends. Seriously.

Now I'm really, really gonna take a break. I mean it this time!

10 nines09  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 8:45:02pm

I don't think it could be said any better. Very well put. These folks are not Ward and June Cleaver, nor are they liberty's' friend. The vision they have is the one that puts them in power and the rest of us in the back seat. There is no difference in fanaticism, only the vehicle used. I cringe when I hear someone say, " What's wrong with a little prayer?" My reply is usually lost in translation; " Whose prayer? Which denomination? Which religion? Who's church/temple/mosque?" The normal response to that is usually a "What?"
Very well thought out. Thanks for the article.

11 docproto48  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:29:18pm

re: #1 laZardo

When they say resistance is futile......

12 docproto48  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:45:08pm

It seems I am becoming rather a subversive these days:
1. unitarian
2. my parents CONVERTED to Reform Judism. Since I supported that I must be a terrorist sympathiser according to Mr Beck and I'm sure rather satanic to all the hypnotized flock at Gov. Perry's rally.
3. I belong to Physicians for Single Payor Healthcare
4. I park my car and its Obama bumpersticker in the doctors lot of a "christian" hospital.
5. My wife is black, I'm not

13 Michael McBacon  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 12:01:35am
I'm more than a little baffled as to why the Israeli government doesn't thwart people like Glenn Beck and the other Christian "Zionist" types that have made inroads there. I'm beginning to think they don't fully comprehend what they're opening the door to.

I've been wondering the same thing.

14 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 3:02:44am

Great post, CL. You will probably enjoy a recent post of mine on this same issue, just with an additional twist. Cynthia McKinney, Herman Cain, and the Christian-Shariah, States Rights Crazy Train. Not sure of the specifics about your journey out of it, but we share quite a bit in common.

re: #9 CuriousLurker

You guys who "get it" need to step up your game and convince your friends. Seriously.

Been saying the same for many, many, many years. Maybe this will be the year people figure it out. But honestly? I think it will end up the same as ever in every election since the Moral Majority, Christian Coalition, values voters, mama grizzlies, The Response, and whatever comes after them.

15 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 3:19:42am

re: #6 imp_62

Thanks CL. I can't imagine you had much of an appetite after spending so much time on the Response website. (Good Ramadan strategy, i suppose...).

You are absolutely correct about Israel and the religious right. This is a discussion I have on an ongoing basis with many people in my circle of (Jewish) friends. The opinions are split. There are those who believe that Jews need to take their friends as they find them, and that Israel is hardly in a position to be choosy about unqualified support these days. These folks embrace people like Hagee and the organization Christians United for Israel (CUFI) and treat them as friends of the Jews and Israel. Then there are others, like myself, who believe that you might be safe in a temporary, limited alliance with evangelicals, but that when you lay down with dogs, you invariably get up with fleas. When your "friend" has ulterior motives and is using you towards his own ends - which are incompatible with your own desires - you are not dealing with a true friend. As the Joker asks Batman: "Have you ever danced with the Devil in the pale moonlight?"

I think the answer to the question "Should Jews be worried about Dominionist Christians coming to power?" is fairly obvious when you look at many centuries of Christian rule in Europe before the advent of secularism and how Jews were treated during that time.

16 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 3:51:03am

re: #15 000G

Also, I don't think that having a body of tradition as an authority to refer to is a safeguard against irrationality or injustice, like CL seems to imply. Consider the following from the influential Civitate Dei by Augustine of Hippo (my emphasis):

Let us now see how the times of the city of God run on from this point among Abraham's descendants. In the time from the first year of Isaac's life to the seventieth, when his sons were born, the only memorable thing is, that when he prayed God that his wife, who was barren, might bear, and the Lord granted what he sought, and she conceived, the twins leapt while still enclosed in her womb. And when she was troubled by this struggle, and inquired of the Lord, she received this answer: "Two nations are in your womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from your bowels; and the one people shall overcome the other people, and the elder shall serve the younger." Genesis 25:23 The Apostle Paul would have us understand this as a great instance of grace; Romans 9:10-13 for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, the younger is chosen without any good desert and the elder is rejected, when beyond doubt, as regards original sin, both were alike, and as regards actual sin, neither had any. But the plan of the work on hand does not permit me to speak more fully of this matter now, and I have said much about it in other works. Only that saying, "The elder shall serve the younger," is understood by our writers, almost without exception, to mean that the elder people, the Jews, shall serve the younger people, the Christians. And truly, although this might seem to be fulfilled in the Idumean nation, which was born of the elder (who had two names, being called both Esau and Edom, whence the name Idumeans), because it was afterwards to be overcome by the people which sprang from the younger, that is, by the Israelites, and was to become subject to them; yet it is more suitable to believe that, when it was said, "The one people shall overcome the other people, and the elder shall serve the younger," that prophecy meant some greater thing; and what is that except what is evidently fulfilled in the Jews and Christians?

[Link: www.newadvent.org...]

Christians systematically abused Jews throughout Medieval Europe, they expelled them, they expropriated them, villified them for deicide, they burned them at the stake, they forced them into ghettos, they forbid them from partaking in most civil professions, one notable exemption being the dreaded one of money-lending, they massacred them whenever too much debt accumulated, they invented countless conspiracy theories against them… it's an endless list, really.

17 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 4:02:23am

re: #14 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Great post, CL. You will probably enjoy a recent post of mine on this same issue, just with an additional twist. Cynthia McKinney, Herman Cain, and the Christian-Shariah, States Rights Crazy Train. Not sure of the specifics about your journey out of it, but we share quite a bit in common.

Thanks for the compliment and also for the heads-up on your post. If we have quite a bit in common, then I'm not surprised we were on the same wavelength after this past week.

Been saying the same for many, many, many years. Maybe this will be the year people figure it out. But honestly? I think it will end up the same as ever in every election since the Moral Majority, Christian Coalition, values voters, mama grizzlies, The Response, and whatever comes after them.

Yeah, it's that last bit that's giving me agita. As long it isn't some version of The Handmaid's Tale, I'll suppose we'll be fine.

18 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 4:54:58am

re: #16 000G

Also, I don't think that having a body of tradition as an authority to refer to is a safeguard against irrationality or injustice, like CL seems to imply.

I made it clear that there are traditions in various religions (mine included, obviously) that would curdle one's blood—it would be absurd to claim otherwise as it wouldn't take long for someone to present an example proving me wrong.

We can cherry-pick examples of awful things from numerous traditions until the cows come home, but that won't nullify the benefits of the good ones. At least for me it won't, therefore such an exercise would seem like a rather large investment of time for little return.

IMO, taditions can and do act as safeguards, but only to the extent that people are willing to accept and adhere to them. They can't prevent irrationality or injustice any more than a parent's warning to drive carefully can prevent a teenaged child from drag racing, or a law against against murder prevent someone from killing. People will do what they're going to do.

Speaking of people doing things, this particular person has Saturday chores to do in the analog world, so she's off to go tend to them.

19 shutdown  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 7:39:01am

re: #15 000G

I think the answer to the question "Should Jews be worried about Dominionist Christians coming to power?" is fairly obvious when you look at many centuries of Christian rule in Europe before the advent of secularism and how Jews were treated during that time.

Jews under Christian rule in the Middle Ages and forward were seen as Christ-killers and scapegoated for many ills, from social upheaval to the plague. Current Evangelicals see the Jews as a vehicle for their redemption, and the return of a Jews to the biblical land of Israel as a precondition for this redemption. Jews are not seen in a modern context and Israel is not considered a modern democratic nation. Both are viewed in a purely biblical context as tools to bring about the second coming of Christ.

20 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 9:29:14am

re: #18 CuriousLurker

We can cherry-pick examples of awful things from numerous traditions until the cows come home, but that won't nullify the benefits of the good ones. At least for me it won't, therefore such an exercise would seem like a rather large investment of time for little return.

IMO, taditions can and do act as safeguards, but only to the extent that people are willing to accept and adhere to them. They can't prevent irrationality or injustice any more than a parent's warning to drive carefully can prevent a teenaged child from drag racing, or a law against against murder prevent someone from killing. People will do what they're going to do.

I will have to disagree, in part. Traditions can and do act as safeguard, but not "only to the extent that people are willing to accept and adhere to them" but only to the extent that they are rational and just and promote rationality and justice themselves. If traditions do not have these qualities, adhering to them will not produce justice and rationality, and not adhering to them is what is called for those interested in rationality and justice.

The same is true for parents: Of course they can guard and teach and protect. But they can also be incredibly abusive because of their position of power. And when they become abusive, their authority must be challenged, not defered to.

In the words of Immanuel Kant:

Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage. Tutelage is the incapacity to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. Such tutelage is self-imposed if its cause is not lack of intelligence, but rather a lack of determination and courage to use one's intelligence without being guided by another.

21 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 1:35:03pm

re: #20 000G

I will have to disagree, in part. Traditions can and do act as safeguard, but not "only to the extent that people are willing to accept and adhere to them" but only to the extent that they are rational and just and promote rationality and justice themselves. If traditions do not have these qualities, adhering to them will not produce justice and rationality, and not adhering to them is what is called for those interested in rationality and justice.

The same is true for parents: Of course they can guard and teach and protect. But they can also be incredibly abusive because of their position of power. And when they become abusive, their authority must be challenged, not defered to.

I assumed that by acknowledging on at least two occasions that there are traditions which can "curdle one's blood", it would have been understood that things falling into that category don't have positive traits, ergo they wouldn't promote rationality and justice.

I've also stated that we can cherry-pick examples of the bad, but that those things don't nullify the benefits of the good. That would imply that there are moral assessments and choices to be made by the individual.

Should I have pedantically pointed out the rationale behind every sentence I wrote lest readers think I promote blindly following all traditional authority? I ask because you're responding as if I had asserted exactly that.

22 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 3:07:06pm

re: #19 imp_62

Jews are not seen in a modern context and Israel is not considered a modern democratic nation. Both are viewed in a purely biblical context as tools to bring about the second coming of Christ.

THIS. It brings to mind this page where I was trying to explain growing up without really having anything but the vaguest awareness of Jews & Israel.

23 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 3:40:16pm

I can't emphasize this strongly enough:
The alarming thing about this is not Perry's decision to essentially kick off his campaign with a prayer meeting. I don't like it but plenty of politicians have done it. It isn't even his affiliation with open bigots like Fischer and the AFA. That is standard GOP stuff these days. The really firghtenig and sinister thing is his high profile association with extreme dominionists and supernaturalists, people who believe that literal demons are a physical presence and can influence national policy and that God decides elections and chooses leaders like a political boss in the sky. They also believe that wealth is divinely ordained and, with it, the social order itself.
To many secularists this is hard to grasp, one fanatic is about as bad as another. But these are people the late Jerry Falwell would have regarded as dangerous kooks. Perry himself is an utterly cynical corporate shill. He obviously believes he can use the kooks. The question is, though, is he using them or are they using him?

24 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 3:47:49pm

Perry is a notably arrogant and narcissistic individual. We have seen this side of him many times during his tenure as governor. He cannot imagine that a bunch of nuts could be smarter and more manipulative than he is. If so, he is quite wrong. The dominionists, the supernaturalist quacks, and the business gospel blasphemers are evil and depraved but they are from stupid. They know what kind of politician can bring them to the power they crave. As CL says, they have this within their grasp.

25 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 3:58:59pm

re: #23 Shiplord Kirel

Perry himself is an utterly cynical corporate shill. He obviously believes he can use the kooks. The question is, though, is he using them or are they using him?

I was asking myself that very question as I was writing: Are the Dominionists to Perry as the Tea Party is to the GOP? I mean, we just finished watching the lunatics take over the asylum not even a year ago, so we know damned well it can happen.

26 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 11:15:56pm

re: #21 CuriousLurker

I assumed that by acknowledging on at least two occasions that there are traditions which can "curdle one's blood", it would have been understood that things falling into that category don't have positive traits, ergo they wouldn't promote rationality and justice.

I've also stated that we can cherry-pick examples of the bad, but that those things don't nullify the benefits of the good. That would imply that there are moral assessments and choices to be made by the individual.

Should I have pedantically pointed out the rationale behind every sentence I wrote lest readers think I promote blindly following all traditional authority? I ask because you're responding as if I had asserted exactly that.

I responded the way I did because your page was circled around the following premise (my emphasis):

The evangelical interpretation is spontaneous, based on whatever God is "telling" the individual at the moment. You hear this from Bachmann all the time. What's so bad about that you may ask? Plenty of traditional interpretations of other religious texts can curdle one's blood, so what difference does it make? Well, let's take a look.

You then proceed to show how direct communication with G'd makes for a lot of unpleasant experiences when interaction occurs with people who have not partaken in said communication or question its authenticity or veracity. My point was that that does not show a real difference to interpretations based on tradition because traditions can be just as irrational. This is not "cherry-picking" bad traditions, it is the normal experience for agnostics and atheists interacting with religious traditions.

27 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 11:40:12pm

re: #26 000G

Okay, so in a nutshell you're saying that both established traditions as interpreted by scholars, and "freestyle" interpretations by laymen based on personal experiences are equally irrational, is that correct? I want to make sure I understand what your point is.

28 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 14, 2011 12:25:37am

re: #27 CuriousLurker

Okay, so in a nutshell you're saying that both established traditions as interpreted by scholars, and "freestyle" interpretations by laymen based on personal experiences are equally irrational, is that correct?

That depends entirely on the tradition your point of view is based on. ;-)

29 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 14, 2011 12:32:55am

re: #28 000G

That depends entirely on the tradition your point of view is based on. ;-)

Heh, okay, I give up. You win.

30 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 14, 2011 12:37:58am

Heh. Wasn't so much about winning. To me, the problems derive from scope and justification of application more than from origination of divine law and will. I do understand the very troubling aspects exclusive sources of revelations bear, though.

31 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 14, 2011 12:47:35am

re: #30 000G

Heh. Wasn't so much about winning. To me, the problems derive from scope and justification of application more than from origination of divine law and will. I do understand the very troubling aspects exclusive sources of revelations bear, though.

Duly noted. ;)


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Silversun Pickups - Toy Soldiers (Official Video) Our latest single “Toy Soldiers” is out now! Stream everywhere here: smarturl.it Directors: Claire Marie Vogel + Aaron Hymes Animation: Aaron Hymes Listen to our latest album Widow's Weeds here: smarturl.it silversunpickups.cominstagram.com@sspufacebook.com #SilversunPickups #SSPU #ToySoldiersSilversun Pickups - Toy Soldiers ...
Thanos
3 hours, 58 minutes ago
Views: 62 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Jorja Smith - Rose Rouge All proceeds from sales of this 7” single release via this store will be donated to the non-profit Kwanda, a platform designed to both help and encourage individuals giving back to, and building within, black communities. bluenotereimagined.lnk.to Rose Rouge ...
Thanos
4 hours, 17 minutes ago
Views: 71 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Doves - Prisoners Pre-order the The Universal Want here: doves.lnk.toListen to Doves – Prisoners here: doves.lnk.to Director : BWTVProducer : Jack LightfootEditor : Daniel DaviesAdditional VFX : Kye DorricottColourist : Dan MoranCommissioner : Paul McKeeDirector's Rep : Carrie SuttonProduction Company : Blindeye ...
Thanos
1 day, 17 hours ago
Views: 274 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
New From Future Islands - for Sure (Official Video) 'For Sure' by Future Islands, out now on all platforms: futureislands.ffm.to A Film by Samuel Jerome MasonFinishing by John HarrisonRendered with GarageFarmSpecial Thanks to Anna, Jemima, Mike, Willy, Saad, Eric, Arsen Perish the painI was impoverishedThose ties that windAnd ...
Thanos
3 days, 7 hours ago
Views: 417 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
(201) Norah Jones - Flame Twin "Flame Twin" is taken from Norah's newest album 'Pick Me Up Off The Floor,' out now and available to stream/download here: norahjones.lnk.to Connect with Norah:norahjones.cominstagram.comfacebook.com@NorahJones Music video by Norah Jones performing Flame Twin. © 2020 Capitol Records, LLC vevo.ly ...
Thanos
3 days, 7 hours ago
Views: 445 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
WOLF at the DOOR (MAYBE YOU) — DAS BLOKPRODUCED BY DAVID KAHNERECORDED AT THE AUTOMATT, S.F., 1981-1982 OWEN MASTERSON - VOCALS/GUITARJACK JOHNSON - GUITARS/VOCALSLARS MITCHELL - BASS/VOCALSSANDYJACK REINER - DRUMS/VOCALS
Thanos
3 days, 10 hours ago
Views: 442 • Comments: 2 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 4 • Share to Facebook
Nu Deco Ensemble & Kishi Bashi - I Am the Antichrist to You Nu Deco Ensemble and Kishi Bashi perform "I Am the Antichrist to You," live and reimagined for the orchestra at New World Center in Miami Beach, FL. NDE website: nu-deco.orgNDE Instagram: instagram.comNDE Twitter: @nudecoensembleNDE Facebook: facebook.com Kishi Bashi website: ...
Thanos
4 days, 4 hours ago
Views: 585 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
Usher - I Cry (Official Video) This video is in honor of the courage and bravery of the activists and organizations who are demanding a change to broken systems rooted in hundreds of years of racism. It includes iconic photography from the great humanitarian and ...
Thanos
4 days, 5 hours ago
Views: 470 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Dave Brubeck - Golden Brown A little tribute to Dave Greenfield (keyboardist with The Stranglers who died with Covid-19 last week) and Paul Desmond (saxophonist with the Dave Brubeck quartet - the anniversary of his death is at the end of this month). Also ...
Thanos
4 days, 5 hours ago
Views: 552 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
When the Air Becomes the EnemyIn March we barely knew how COVID-19 spread. We ran with a number of assumptions. And we got spanked. By the virus. What we humans got right or wrong is for another Page. As I write this the United States ...
Rightwingconspirator
4 days, 12 hours ago
Views: 442 • Comments: 3 • Rating: 3
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook