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1 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:57:10pm

My reply to Huntsman...

If you accept the science of AGW, why do you argue against doing anything to help?

2 aagcobb  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:42:12pm

Huntsman is crazy if he thinks he can win the GOP nomination without denying reality.

3 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:18:48pm

re: #1 Charles

We already agree he will not get the nod. I will revel in the sight of him busting Perry on these two issues. Even as he loses he elevates the debate.

4 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:30:22pm

so is this basically his way of saying, "I want out of the race"?

5 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:36:26pm

re: #4 SpaceJesus

More like he wants nothing to do with the Tea party despite the political peril. I can respect that much anyway. You?

6 mr.fusion  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:27:24pm

re: #4 SpaceJesus

so is this basically his way of saying, "I want out of the race" "I think the Tea Party will implode and I'm looking forward to 2016."?

But he still wouldn't take a 10-1 spending cuts/taxes deficit reduction package.

7 jc717  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:30:23pm

re: #6 mr.fusion

But he still wouldn't take a 10-1 spending cuts/taxes deficit reduction package.

Neither would I... Tax increases need to be more than 10% of the deal.

8 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:46:00pm

re: #5 Rightwingconspirator

respect? maybe. his inactions make that hard to do. see charles's post.

9 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:51:41pm

re: #1 Charles

Retweeted and then I sent my own inquiry. I invite as many Lizards as are inclined to retweet both. Not that I really expect an answer but LGF has some gravitas. So maybe...

10 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:52:28pm

re: #8 SpaceJesus

Valid point, we'll see

11 Hal_10000  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 7:31:30pm

re: #1 Charles

A lot of the "do anythings" are bad. A cap and trade bill that exempts politically powerful industries and creates a multi-hundred-billion dollar slush fund for Congress. "Green energy" initiatives that mainly line the pockets of the politically connected (Tesla, Rick Perry's corporate welfare fund). Excitement about things like food miles which either make zero difference or even make things worse. Or a global agreement that exempts China and India. Another Washington cycle of "We must do something. This is something. Let's do it." is not going to keep Antarctica from melting.

The only way out of this is to find a new sources of energy. Solar and wind are not yet ready to fill that role given the hideous expense and land use issues. But technological breakthroughs need lots of private and public money for R&D, which means a health economy.

The AGW realists would throw more weight behind realistic stuff, like curbing industrial methane emissions, funding R&D, raising CAFE standards, or removing the legal double standard on SUVs that lets them pollute, guzzle gas and endanger motorists in ways that are illegal for other cars. Unsexy, but helpful with little economic drag.

I think a lot of the GOP know this. Even Bush, in fact, started some efforts on industrial methane (eliminating it could delay the worst of AGW for decades). They just figure there's more votes and higher Fox News ratings in stoking the fires of ignorance.

12 TampaKnight  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 7:38:34pm

re: #1 Charles

My reply to Huntsman...

Probably because the best and most realistic thing we can do, starting now, is to spread awareness and educate people. Which is what he's trying to do.

I've read many articles from people who clearly believe in AGW, but advocate not rushing to rash decisions simply because there isn't a proven method to deal with anything yet.

13 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 7:43:54pm

re: #3 Rightwingconspirator

We already agree he will not get the nod. I will revel in the sight of him busting Perry on these two issues. Even as he loses he elevates the debate.

Hopefully, he can wound Perry enough to allow Romney to win the nomination. Huntsman could play the spoiler, then angle a cabinet post if Romney wins.

14 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 8:03:33pm

re: #1 Charles

My reply to Huntsman...

Damned good question. I want to like Jon Huntsman and see him as different from the rest of these guys but when he talks about gutting the EPA. It shows a total lack of commitment to the environment to me. He's trying to have it both ways. He knows since he was ambassador to China that the Chinese have experimented with green energies.

15 Lidane  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 8:03:49pm

re: #5 Rightwingconspirator

More like he wants nothing to do with the Tea party despite the political peril. I can respect that much anyway. You?

I would respect it more if he hadn't pandered to the nutjobs with the 10-1 tax thing in the last debate, and if he hadn't started in on that "EPA reign of terror" shit. Oh, and admitting AGW but not supporting doing anything about it is pointless.

I had hopes for him in 2016 as a sane Republican. It's disappointing to see him pander this way despite acknowledging both AGW and evolution. He damn well knows better and he gave in to the wingnuts anyway.

16 theheat  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 9:21:37pm

re: #15 Lidane

I would respect it more if he hadn't pandered to the nutjobs with the 10-1 tax thing in the last debate, and if he hadn't started in on that "EPA reign of terror" shit. Oh, and admitting AGW but not supporting doing anything about it is pointless.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

He says he believes the stuff's real to sound moderate, but he can't bring himself to upset his base by taking action. The base owns these people, and effectively makes them all act and behave the same way: worthless and nuts. They're dangerous.

re: #11 Hal_10000

Excitement about things like food miles which either make zero difference or even make things worse. Or a global agreement that exempts China and India.

I don't give a shit if China and India are on board, the rest of the world can't wait for them. We need to be responsible and do something now, and lead by example, not make excuses "because the other kids didn't have to do it." Ultimately, they'll have no choice.

17 Timmeh  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:51:31am

re: #11 Hal_10000

I think that the best policy would be a carbon tax (or a GHG tax).

Because we need to raise revenues anyway given the budget deficit. This would kill two birds with one stone.

18 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 4:14:37am

re: #12 TampaKnight

No, definitely not. IN fact, your argument makes no sense. One of the things we have to educate people on is that we need to start doing stuff, real cuts in our use of fossil fuels, taxes on carbon usage, development of alternative tech-- right now. So educating people while saying we shouldn't be doing anything about it is simply logically incompatible.

It's like a doctor telling someone he's got cancer but we won't do anything about it yet, and congratulating the doctor on educating the patient on cancer.

19 TampaKnight  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 9:48:01am

re: #18 Obdicut

No, definitely not. IN fact, your argument makes no sense. One of the things we have to educate people on is that we need to start doing stuff, real cuts in our use of fossil fuels, taxes on carbon usage, development of alternative tech-- right now. So educating people while saying we shouldn't be doing anything about it is simply logically incompatible.

It's like a doctor telling someone he's got cancer but we won't do anything about it yet, and congratulating the doctor on educating the patient on cancer.

There's a story out in the New York Times, today, that describes just what a bust the "Green Jobs" industry has been, after the government tried to engineer it via stimulus funds and tax incentives. And that's my point. Simply creating mandates or throwing money around to create an industry that has neither the current marketable tech or demand to warrant one is foolish, and it's a waste of money.

Several European nations have implemented a "Cap and Trade" system, and the jury is still very much out. Many believe it's worked, many think it's failed.

20 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 11:19:46am

re: #19 TampaKnight

Simply creating mandates or throwing money around to create an industry that has neither the current marketable tech or demand to warrant one is foolish, and it's a waste of money.

What the fuck is this bullshit? There's no demand for energy? And why are you pretending I didn't talk about developing the technology?


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